JMEnternational/Redferns

Are the Britpoppers okay? Britain’s distinctive post-boomer bulge generation, they of Jamie Oliver, the 00s London property boom, Posh Twee and “proper chips”, Bloasis and floral shirts and gentrifying Hackney, have gone bananas en masse.
Over the weekend, Trump and Vance ordered Ukraine’s President Zelensky to “make a deal with Russia or we’re out”. In the ensuing international pandemonium, Keir Starmer stood up and promised that Britain would step into the breach, along with a “coalition of the willing” and perhaps even with all 25 of our tanks. Now, Britain’s well-fed Gen X commentariat is working itself into a bipartisan militaristic frenzy, all Churchill, Union Jacks, and “standing up to bullies”.
From the Right, Julia Hartley-Brewer encouraged everyone to watch the Second World War movie Darkest Hour to “learn something about how you should deal with the threat from dictators like Putin”. From the Left, Dan Hodges suggested that anyone who supported Trump’s ceasefire plan over Zelensky’s desire to continue fighting was no better than the Nazi propagandist “Lord Haw-Haw”. And LBC’s Matthew Wright lectured John, a 70-year-old Cockney, on the lessons of Munich in 1938.
This generation came of age in the End of History era, in which the kind of hard-edged patriotism that inspires young men to enlist in armies seemed obsolete, hopefully for good. In its place emerged something softer: a vision of nationhood as without enemies, only friends we hadn’t met yet. Now, though, the world is changing. Can this kind of inclusive patriotism still awaken the fighting spirit, in an emergency? The Britpoppers have, until now, presided over a world sufficiently peaceful that this question never really came up. But as the world has grown more dangerous, the shrillness of their bellicosity suggests they’re worried the answer might be “no”.
Starmer himself is arguably himself a post-national Britpopper par excellence. He declares himself “proud of being patriotic”, though the Tories demur; for example Robert Jenrick recently called him a “quisling” for seeking to hand control of the Chagos Islands to Mauritius. More generally, conservatives of both small and large C varieties accuse his regime of harbouring deep animus toward Britain, as expressed in Labour policy toward anything even tenuously English-coded, from independent schools to small farmers, provincial churches, and even history itself.
How does this add up? The explanation is simple: Starmer is all for Britpopper patriotism, of the Spice Girls Union Jack and globalisation variety: the kind where national identity is lightly worn, inclusive, and adequately expressed by “British Values”, like a Three Lions football shirt, for sale to anyone who wants to wear one. By contrast, the older, harder style of patriotism saw nations as having both friends and enemies. But since the war, and especially since the End of History, this version has become indelibly associated with racism, jingoism, and hostile, exclusionary sentiments. Starmer’s not for that.
The gap between this End of History Britpopper patriotism, and the harder-edged one that preceded it, was captured in vivid microcosm in the LBC exchange between Matthew Wright and John the Cockney. John tried to explain to Wright that Britain going to war today would be a non-starter, simply because patriotic solidarity has ebbed along with ethnic homogeneity. He was circumspect in his phrasing, saying only that Britain can’t fight because “we haven’t got the people any more”. He continued with the example of how the East End Cockneys left London and “ran for refuge”. And though he doesn’t say what they were running from, the clear implication is that he’s referring to that area’s well-documented postwar demographic change. In John’s view, those who replaced the Cockneys are unlikely to be as willing as they were, to fight for Britain: “If you went by these schools in the morning…you know…it’s unbelievable. Them kids wouldn’t be fighting.”
He doesn’t say so explicitly, but the clear implication is that John believes the children of immigrants would be less willing than Cockneys to fight for their adopted country. Wright catches the hint and rejects it forcefully: “How do you know? Have you spoken to any?”. John hasn’t, of course, and is dismissed; another smack-down victory for tolerant Britpopperism. For from the perspective of soft patriotism, there’s no obvious reason why the people who live in London now should experience this sentiment any less than those who lived there a century ago.
Who is right? Just last month, a Times report suggested only 11% of Gen Z would be willing to fight for Britain, which they aren’t proud of and think is “racist”. The published report didn’t break these views down by interviewees’ ethnicity, so there’s no way of knowing if there’s anything to the imputation made by John the Cockney. But when Rishi Sunak floated mandatory conscription for 18-year-olds just before the last election, vox-pop interviews suggested that many young people rejected the idea of British military service out of hand, and in some cases, cited immigrant heritage as grounds for refusal.
In any case, something has clearly gone very wrong with the sense of solidarity upon which military conscription is founded, within the generation upon whom conscription would fall in extremis. At the risk of stating the obvious, this is at least potentially an existential threat to national security. And if there’s a desperate edge to the Britpoppers’ recent spate of Churchill-posting, it surely lies in their dawning, horrified realisation of their generation’s contribution to this predicament.
I’m just about old enough to remember Britpopperism coalescing in the late 1990s. As I exited my teens, all was ironic Union Jack iconography and the reclamation and productisation of British culture. It wasn’t just London that was to be re-gentrified; it was everything, just this time a bit more inclusive, tolerant, welcoming and non-jingoistic. It was, on its own terms, a sincere utopian vision. It produced a Britain at once shinier, cooler and more optimistic than the dreary Major-era one, but also a Britain indefinably more twee: a culture playing itself in caricature, for an audience of investors and tourists, paradigmatically in the oeuvre of Richard Curtis but also in any BBC costume drama you care to name, and lately, notably, the Paddington Bear movie franchise.
With this twee-ification, too, came a transformation of history and culture proper to the neutered, pasteurised “British Values”: again, a genuinely utopian effort to preserve the solidaristic effect of national fellow-feeling while discarding its more exclusionary aspects. Concurrently, too, something equivalent was afoot on the Continent, in the European Union project: the dream of a permanent end to European conflict, delivered by ever-closer political and economic union of European peoples.
But this continent-wide retreat into soft patriotism always tacitly relied on the stability and enduring existence of the US-led international order: an order that, ultimately, had to be backed up by hard power and paid for by someone. In Europe especially, the identity of this someone remained, for the most part, delicately unstated: after all, how could leadership be safely entrusted to any one European state? That prospect bore too great a risk of reviving unhappy and all too recent intra-European rivalries.
The solution had been, literally, to defang Europe: that is, to subordinate all European defence to hegemonic American power. American foreign policy leaders were always ambivalent about this arrangement, but seem historically to have accepted it as the price of ensuring a relatively internally unified European ally for American geopolitical priorities. Lately, though, Trumpist foreign policy thinkers have been signalling their wish to adjust this arrangement.
So what does this imply for the style of post-national peace and plenty enjoyed by the Britpoppers? We can perhaps understand their dismay: American withdrawal, if it happened, would mean losing the fundamental enabling condition for the entire Britpopperanschauung; perhaps even the return of intra-European conflict. It is a genuinely frightening prospect. So all the current international brouhaha over Ukraine can be understood as a negotiation over whether, or how far, this is actually going to happen. And Starmer’s recent spate of flag-waving, militaristic public pronouncements makes perfect sense, understood as an effort to provide European leaders a face-saving means of acceding to defence spending increases Trump has requested, without looking too slavishly obedient to a POTUS whose style they dislike. Perhaps Starmer hopes that such gestures will forestall an overall American withdrawal, from its longstanding role underwriting European stability.
But assuming this is right, can Britain and Europe follow through on such noises to American satisfaction? The difficulty here is at least twofold. Firstly, as Wolfgang Munchau has pointed out, after some decades of comfortable post-nationalism European defence capability is woefully etiolated. To this we can also add the question of whether the current British regime commands enough public affection to expect patriotic service when a growing subset of the electorate regards their government as fundamentally illegitimate — not least thanks to a perceived cross-party refusal to respond to popular demand and reduce immigration.
But whether or not Cockney John is right about migrants’ likely attitude to conscription, mass migration is arguably an effect of soft Britpopper patriotism rather than its cause. That is: it was the Britpopper vision of national identity as fuzzy, open, and opt-in that enabled the political consensus in favour of mass migration to form. And if it’s really true that only 11% of British youth would be willing to fight for Britain, that means 89% wouldn’t. Recent figures suggest about 25% of young British people are from minority ethnic backgrounds. This suggests that at least some — maybe a lot — of the young people swearing off patriotism must be white British. Even if Cockney John does have a point, migration is clearly not the only thing killing British patriotism.
And this points to the most profound way that Britpoppers have created our defence predicament: it’s their kids who were raised with the soft-patriotic, End-of-History version of national identity. And as it turns out, an ingroup without an outgroup doesn’t seem potent enough to inspire any kind of warlike spirit. So maybe Britpoppers are frenziedly banging the drums of war now, because they’ve realised it was them.
In their certainty that the American security-blanket would last forever, many raised their own kids to believe in a version of patriotism with only friends, no enemies. Now, belatedly, they’ve realised that actually there are plenty of enemies still out there. But their kids don’t believe them. So the yelling is perhaps an attempt, all too late, to be heard over their offspring’s AirPods. Should it fail, we will need to ask, with some urgency: who will don the “boots” Starmer has promised “on the ground”? I doubt somehow it’ll be the Cool Britannia generation.
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SubscribeToo late Mary……….much, much too late.
That particular horse has well and truly bolted, and whatever fine words, whatever grand ‘Churchillian’ rhetoric, everybody knows it.
Wasn’t it Wellington who said they were the ‘scum of the earth’ and amazed they could fight so well? And the ideals of the Revolution offered more to the pauper than Aristocrat, and yet…
Wellington said his army was mostly composed of the scum of the earth and he probably meant at least some of the officers too but I think he thought this enhanced their fighting ability. They had nothing to lose.He would probably have said the same of the Ukranian “army”. Pavlo’s not in uniform. The French,Russian etc Revolutions never offered or gave anything to peasants + paupers. Those Revolutions and all others including our Peasants Revolt of 1381 are always middle class revolts and they are organized and led by educated men who have reached the ceiling level their society sets them. Any paupers or peasants involved are seduced or coerced into being the feet on the ground storming the barricades.
“Darkest Hour”, good entertainment…very poor history.
Anyone who takes it as a guide to how wars are won, or why they are fought is extremely naive.
“Right overcoming might” as a principle will fail every time.
Not quite. Moral power is to physical as three parts out of four – Napoleon.
There is a limit, but…
Good point, but…didn’t he lose at the end of the day…
He did. But the rest of Europe had been united against France since 1789 and gradually wore it down by 1814. Of course, if Napoleon had never invaded Russia and lost 500,000 men doing it, who can say how much longer France might have held out.
Either way, I think the Revolutionary enthusiasms and ‘moral force’ played a huge part in that resilience, as JW hints.
People fight for an idea. A nation is an idea – a shared understanding of history, values, ancestry, and a collective hope for the future. Crucially, this idea is not something that emerged from a brainstorming session in a university seminar but was forged through centuries of trial and error, tested in the real world, and found to work tolerably well (which, by British standards, is practically a ringing endorsement).
Yet, for the past thirty years, UK governments – regardless of political stripe – have systematically dismantled these foundations in pursuit of a utopian fantasy generally summarised as “woke.” This ideology, seemingly cobbled together from the half-baked musings of sixth-form politics students and the faculty lounges of third-rate universities, is untested, untethered from reality, and displays all the robustness of a soufflé in a stiff breeze.
The result? A nation in decline, its identity eroded, and its sense of purpose reduced to little more than an awkward shrug.
Against this backdrop, is it really any wonder that young men and women no longer feel compelled to fight for their country? You can’t expect people to risk their lives for something they don’t recognise, let alone believe in. You might as well hand them a rifle and tell them to charge into battle for an “inclusive and sustainable future” – which, as rallying cries go, lacks a certain Churchillian punch.
They could, instead, ride into battle in a Battery Powered Tank.
It’s a nice thought, but the ‘fight for an idea’ can be a bit overstated. Evidence shows your loyalty and camaraderie to and with your immediate comrades is what most makes you fight. It’s why the Company as a form of organisation so crucial. That’s why so much is invested in training and the ‘esprit de corps’ that goes with it. History and pride certainly helps and military training pulls on that too. Most joining have only a vague idea on that and aren’t especially driven by it. The training and exposure to that legacy works it’s way into the pores. How on earth do we think we turn immature young people into trained fighters? We’ve years of experience in doing it.
Now it’s true that being asked to fight for something inherently wrong weakens resolve. But every Unit wanted a rotation to Afghanistan. All wanted to have active service. The issue was repeat rotations, but Afghanistan a v different proposition to what backing up Ukrainian forces might involve.
I am afraid that is all delusional.
We are not going to be able to recruit men in the numbers need. Our ruling class deliberately set out to destroy nationalism and the nation state, so what are we supposed to fight for, the rainbow flag, “British values”, a multicultural, multi-ethnic society?
Our ruling class have engaged in warfare against the white population, and particularly white males, so why should they enlist, and can anyone see our new Britons flocking to the flag to defend King and country?
Conscription will not work either. Those men that can do so will flee to their country of origin ( a silver lining). A very large percentage of those that can’t will just refuse and, in what you might call a delicious irony, there will be plenty of scope to take advantage of the Human Rights Act. At least 2 Tier’s mates will earn a decent wedge out of out of it which is the main thing.
Nonsense. We could get back to 90s levels easily. We need a bit bigger Army well trained and equipped not masses of Divisions. Good recruitment campaign and as I said proper resettlement incentives. In fact I think you’d find the way we are treating many young men and women now with their lack of opportunities for good work and housing etc actually helps if we incentivise with some smart thinking.
I am sorry you could not be more wrong.
Do you actually know any young people? I come into contact with my sons’ friends and there is not one of them who would not recoil in horror at the thought of joining the army or fighting for this country.
Why would you fight for this country?
My sons conversely are RM trainers at the SW Commando bases and that means they meet multiple intakes every year. You’d be surprised how many still want to do it, especially the best regiments.
Don’t think I ever said I was joining RN or even prepared to countenance it until I came back home one day and told them at 17yrs of age. But remember your Sons had to listen to you for years too and bound to have an impact.
That is where you are wrong again.
I never said anything to my sons on these matters. It was the other way round. Driven by their experience of education and university they found their own path and it was they that opened my eyes to alternative writers and idea. For a relatively long time I failed to see just how angry they really were.
But I assume having to listen to you for years must have impacted your sons.
I don’t think it was our ‘ruling class’: they were just insipid, bobbers-on-the water, benignly going along with the trend Mary has identified.
Well, in some ways it actually did. The modern nation state concept largely emerged from Enlightenment ideas. For example, Hobbes saw the nation state – with a shared culture, language and history – as a way to maintain stability and to actually prevent war. Rousseau saw it as a way to organize the general will. The French revolution overthrew the old aristocratic order and the church. Under this new regime the Rousseauan spirit was really put into practice. Everyone would be an equal citizens of the unified nation, instead of a subject to a king. Nevertheless, in France kings and even an emperor came back for a while. Britain, of course, never got rid of the king in the first place. However, these new kings usually kept their position as enlightenment despots, emphasizing the importance of the new nation state and concepts like liberty.
A more organic origin of the modern nation state was its effectiveness in organizing early capitalist forces. For example, Adam Smith argued that capitalists would prefer domestic markets over foreign markets “as if by an invisible hand” – yes, the invisible hand idea is widely misquoted and misunderstood as an argument for laisser-faire free markets.
Of course, in the (post)modern era of globalism this changed. What we see now is that global financial capital has no problem of shipping production overseas, preferring foreign workers over domestic workers. Post-national and postmodern ideas, as well as supra-national institution, are used ad hoc to facilitate this. At the same time the concentration of wealth within this borderless capital produces a power structure that seems increasingly neo-feudal. The internet supercharges this. It is not hard to see how all of this undermines nationalism and the world that came out of the enlightenment. Just like old feudal lords many billionaires and some other elites seem to have more in common with each other than with their citizens. However, I think it has awoken other ghosts from the past as well, such as ethnic, national, political, religious and even racial identity. But now on a global scale.
Are people really proposing that we should fight a conventional war against the Russians?
Don’t be absurd.
Starmer is sabre-rattling because he is failing domestically. We should refuse to be taken in. His plan to send troops to Ukraine is as foolish and guaranteed to fail as Blair’s vanity wars. It will be a fiasco.
All the propaganda has made us forget that what is happening in Ukraine is, first and foremost, a civil war onto which both the Kremlin and US State Department have poured copious amounts of oil.
If we send troops Putin will have a lot of fun using local militias to kill them whilst vociferously denying any involvement.
It’s a recipe for disaster.
Harrington:
you:
You – and the author of this piece and the pollsters – are missing the point. People signing up to join the military might talk about “fighting for their country”, but the rest of us see them as fighting for the government and various vested interests. Which is not remotely the same thing.
When Putin launches an armada to invade Britain, I suspect the percentage of us willing to fight for our country will be something approaching 100%. Until then, “our” military are fighting stupid wars of choice that actually damage Britain by wasting goodwill and resources by invading and occupying countries like Iraq and Afghanistan.
I think you’re right Jim… we’d fight to defend our nation, but 1) I’d absolutely hate doing it because our Govt sucks, and if we defended successfully, they are out 2) I’m not confident that our public has the resilience or resourcefulness anywhere near that of Ukrainian citizens.
“Tried and tested” is not a status that lasts forever. Ideas need to prove themselves again and again in changing circumstances, and at some point they might no longer have the same advantages they once had, or other ideas overtake them.
Nationalism has had its fair share of failures throughout the 20th century, so it seems appropriate that it’s no longer held in such high esteem.
That doesn’t mean it has become useless or it can’t be revived in some form. But just as it had success in the real world, so, too, it declined in the real world.
And LBC’s Matthew Wright lectured John, a 70-year-old Cockney, on the lessons of Munich in 1938.
The reference to appeasement isn’t out of left field, but I’d also make reference to the lessons of the Treaty of Versaille and how important it is not to given in to the temptation to humiliate even a firmly vanquished foe in a postwar peace settlement.
Ponder at your leisure whether the events of 1938 would have ever come about had the allies been slightly less harsh to Germany in the aftermath of WW1.
Germany was humiliated, occupied and partitioned in 1945 to an extent which far surpassed its experience in 1918/19 – its cities flattened, its army exterminated, its political leadership strung up, its guiding nationalist political philosophy exposed as fantastical, its civilians starved, ethnically cleansed from many regions, and exposed to the full force of Red Army retribution. “Lebensraum” turned in to the Soviet occupation of the Prussian heartland. Germany stopped being a military threat to its neighbours after that. And only after that.
Which you might then take as a basis for understanding why Germany has so consistently refused to build up its military again, even now we need it!
Is this the dream of the countries of Eastern Europe today? Russia is to be broken up into statelets after being beaten in a war of attrition? And the USA must adopt that as her foreign policy?
Does anyone suggest anymore that Russia could, like Iraq and Afghanistan, be made one of us by being made a liberal, rainbow, democracy?
If Germany had achieved her objective in 1914 of breaking up the Russian Empire, the rest of the 20th century would have been different and been spared the totalitarian horrors. Britain’s interference in 1914 made that much less likely. The Eastern European countries of today would have had no need to fear Russia, and we would be spared the current crisis.
The Germans themselves suffered what was effectively a costly civil war in the 1860s. By 1915 one third of Germany’s population was under 15. Seeing themselves as hemmed in by jealous powers, denied resources they needed, unable to match Russian modernisation of her army together with Russia’s alliance with other powers, having lost the dreadnought race with Britain, this escalation of defence resulted in Germany deciding to resolve the matter with war.
Germany was not firmly vanquished in 1919 as it was (occupied and divided) in 1945. Nor were the Versailles terms as vicious as those imposed by Prussia on France in 1871. According to many Germans it had been (in 1919) betrayed. The Versailles terms were thus undermined even during Weimar and the rest we know only too well.
The moral is rather this. If you defeat an enemy do the job to the last grain of resistance.
The R families,hellfire, ill name them,- the Rothschild and Rockefeller banking dynasties were not satisfied that the economy of Germany (that had long excluded Jews from political power and influence) had been destroyed enough so a second World War was a necessity to strike another death blow. But once again the strike did not kill. It’s a long game but the weapon of Climate Change has been very effective at destroying the German economy. But obviously more action is needed. A flourishing and thriving economy one has no access to political influence in is obnoxious and not to be countenanced. I’ve just read a novel (a random charity shop find) called Transcription by Kate Atkinson. Plot revolves around an MI5 scheme to watch and monitor a group of people ,mostly lonely misfits,who believe the War is part of a Jewish plot to direct History. Of course as well as being fruitcakes they are also.facists and weirdos. And I thought,oh my God,I’m actually one of those people. But WHAT IF,despite being weird outsiders and crazies,they still were actually RIGHT. After all being paranoid doesn’t mean they might not really be out to get you. Why would arms manufacturers and pharmaceutical companies want to end conflicts in which their products are in demand. Rachel Johnson,sister of disgusting Boris,on LBC last week decrying the hundreds of miles and acres of land defiled by land mines. I assume she was imputing that to the Russians only. Does Russia have land mine factories. Or does everyone buy from one source like in WW2 all sides bought ball bearings from the one Swedish factory. Tanks need ball bearings for not just effective use but for use at all. Then Rach had the cheek to invoke the Sainted Virgin of Our Sorrows – Diana. Diana who got 70% of the world’s countries to sign up to a treaty + promise not to use cluster bombs a more deadly and vicious form of land mine. USA did not sign. Diana signed her own Death Warrant with that. So 30 years later International Beggar Zelensky “more,more,gimme more” is pleading for supplies of cluster bombs and our media,the same media that Beatified Our Virginal Lady of Sorrows are saying “give him those bombs it’s cruel not to” and they have totally forgotten Dianas Greatest Triumph.
What is there left to fight for? The inevitable British Caliphate?
The country I loved has been ruined.
Indeed. Imagine the conscription cohort from Birmingham or Rotherham during Ramadan. “Excuse me Sir, I may faint until I’ve had a bite to eat at sunset”.
There aren’t many in our Army JS, but those that are would surprise you I’m sure The one’s my Sons know, and they are RM trainers, seem to have better discipline and resilience where they’ve been able to do the fasting associated with Ramadan. Going without food and drink for some time something worth trying.
An old friend with some experience of “people who fast” on active service would beg to differ actually. He spoke of them as being tired, physically weakened and unfocussed as a result of having no food or water for three quarters of the day. Also, the insistence on the part of some on praying five times a day didn’t lend itself to the tempo of operations, battlefield discipline and tactical procedures either.
Holy Shit! How Prissy.
I would join up but in doing so I would be depriving a wimin or person of colour of the opportunity.
Be a good laugh to see how fast theym back on them leaky boats catching crabs to France and on.
It is true that there is a Muslim reluctance to join and fight for our Armed Forces. Supporting Ukraine is v different to more recent deployments where one can see why the reluctance would be greater.
Not at all, there’s plenty of ruin left in it yet, just wait and see.
I am of this generation and we are guilty as charged. In our defence, if I may: When we cheered on multiculturalism as young adults we believed the UK would be a ‘big tent’ multiculti country where all the different groups would be held together by a common culture. The idea that we would end up with lots of small tents whose occupants peer out suspiciously at each other – including subgroups of White Brits, men and women even – was not meant to happen and was not inevitable. But here we are, and if a shake up is coming then bring it on.
How utterly stupid and naive of you. Your generation and your children will reap the whirlwind. Enjoy.
But the food has been great Paul, you’ve got to admit that. So many restaurants and such reasonable prices.
I sincerely hope personally.
It was never going to work. It never could.
Not everyone cheered on multiculturalism.
Even in the mid-70s, it was obvious, to those that looked, that the problem was the lack of any visible control: for the indigenous population, it was driven by emotional blackmail and, for the newly arrived, it was economic. And, for those in positions of authority, with the ability to plan for the future, it was a complete abrogation of their responsibilities.
Liberal Extremism always doubles down, until the system breaks.
Fair enough NS, but hindsight makes this look like it was an easy judgement call and it in truth it wasn’t. If you never make mistakes then sell us some of your secret sauce.
Yes it was an easy judgement call in 60s, 70s and 80s.
Ordinary British people protested and our ruling elite and MSM cowed and silenced them.
“– was not meant to happen and was not inevitable.”
If you knew anything about the modus operandi of Islam you’d know it was inevitable in it’s case. As has been observed ‘Islam has bloody borders’. Although pointing this out is in the process of becoming criminalised under Starmer, Rayner and co (which is also part of that MO).
And what a huge price we have paid for your virtue signalling.
The irony is it never fooled anyone. No one ever respected you for it. None of overseas friends was going to say that SJ he’s OK he’s one of the good ones. I am sorry to say they would have viewed you for what you are, a morally bankrupt useful idiot of no worth.
Calm down old chap, you’ll be giving yourself a hernia. If you think this was about virtue signalling you’ve misunderstood that phenomenon and this article.
And what you were doing wasn’t virtue signalling
SJ; I’m glad you have the insight to realise that your hopes have proved to be unfounded and the humility to admit it in public. Good for you.
Absolutely, Frank. I think that in the 90s few of us who now comment here were grumpy old right-wing curmudgeons, with a deep suspicion of foreigners and their impact on Britain. We were all more optimistic and globalist then.
It’s a shame that the curmudgeons turned out to be correct. Maybe it was their deep wisdom. Maybe it’s right to be pessimistic about human nature.
But in the sunny optimism of youth it’s also rather sad to be like that….
Well done for your honesty and repentance, Simon. A lot of us thought the way you did in our youth and now chose to conveniently forget it.
Funny I have friends who pronounce very loudly that we should fight and support the Ukraine. With what? Plastic guns in the hands of pensioners old enough to remember national service?
Our recruitment drive shows the new desire to DEI the armed forces, when in actual fact we should be happy to take anyone fit enough and brave enough to do the fighting and potentially dying. We should all care not what skin colour a person has who does that job. Just be very thankful that they do.
We’ve demoralised the nation. Turned our back on any kind of nationalism. And now the old world has returned. And our neoliberal utopia is ill-prepared to deal with it. And worst of all we have a virtue signalling Labour Party at the helm. It couldn’t be a worst time for these clowns to be in charge.
We do take anyone fit and brave enough. You apply and get through the training, you’re in.
DEI more because of shortage in recruitment thus trying to expand the attractiveness. We can do more to aid recruitment via other means – guarantee those who’ve served a proper home and make the military covenant count for something. But you’ve got the DEI drive wrong way round. It’s an easy whipping boy of a contention. In reality it’s a little more complicated.
Bmi decides if you can join.
Not quite. Army already learnt a BMI too crude a measure, but your general point about basic fitness is true.
A quick search on the internet confirms that the Royal Air Force has unlawfully discriminated against white male recruits (I would post the link only the comments section doesn’t seem to allow me to do it).
So maybe DEI isn’t working out for the safety of our nation in quite the way some hoped it would.
If you want to fly planes in the RAF you have to have been to a posh school and/or know a contact who can put in a word in the right ears. That acts as a very effective filter.
Yes that was wrong and overturned but was at a senior promotion stage. Not the initial application to join up. Nobody applying for Army gets rejected on DEI.
I fear that, even if what you say is correct, nobody will believe you. There has been such a long running disparagement of white men in the UK, that even if the motivations of the RAF purely to attract more people, we’ve been made so aware of so many campaigns to exclude white men.
It’s always been traditional for hundreds,probably thousands of years to chuck ex military out to go on the tramp and beg.
Chris Trotter;
“None of this will be of any use, however, in a nation divided against itself. A population composed of mutually antagonistic cultures and identities; a country racked by ideological differences and beset by conflicts made all the more intractable by the demonisation of every side except one’s own, cannot possibly achieve the consensus needed to construct an effective national defence.”
https://bowalleyroad.blogspot.com/2025/03/what-are-we-defending.html
What nation. My England (not Scotland,Wales,Ireland) is the England that Eric Ravillioius drew and painted and that England is only in the imagination now. And it’s NOT 1914. It’s NOT 1939. AND ITS NOT 1812 and thanks to Audible I’ve just learned that this whole damned to hellfire bloody narrative was exactly the same back then. For Putin,read Hitler,for Hitler read Napoleon. Not sure who before that. The End of the Napoleonic Wars (and they did not teach me this at school) BUT particularly The Congress of Vienna put away the old medieval world and opened up The Modern World . The Europe we know was created then. Around 1900 there was an optimistic consensus that with Europe One Big Family ie Queen Victoria was Grandmama of Europe and all the diverse places were ruled by her grandchildren,all cousins,all constantly visiting each other,squabbling like families do but also united,all cousins. How could Bloody Wars ever break out in a world united under such harmonious family rule. But we must all know what families are really like. Not at all like in soap operas where “farmilee” is everything. It’s like they say you dont get to choose your relations.Im not asking anyone to fight and die for litter strewn streets of fast food shops,charity shops,Turkish barbers and betting shops.
If Sir DEI-ago, BBC bias Nandy really think that their DEI atrocities, two tier law enforcement, NCHI , Islarmofogiest laws and war on free speech convince the ethnic English, Scottish,Welsh recruitment to the military then, there’s the BIG problem. Can you see all the hate marchers protesting to free Gaza, the hate preachers in their mosks, the anti-Semitic Hamas supporters rallying behind the Union Jack? The DEI ethnic British hating brigade may just reap the rewards of their racist multicultural seeds.
What’s changed isn’t immigration per se. The East End has always been a magnet for immigration and many of the men conscripted from the area for WW1/2 would have been from Catholic Irish or Eastern European Jewish families. Few of whom would have had any great love of Britain and/or capitalism.
What’s changed is that for the last 40-50 years or so the progressive citidels of education, media etc have increasingly decreed as a matter of established fact that the very idea of Britain is a canker on the history of the world. They celebrate and reward the national self-loathing which Orwell correctly identified as the unique predisposition of Britain’s left wing intelligentsia.
Why would we expect anyone to risk their lives in service of a country which they have been systematically taught it would have been better for everyone if it had not existed at all?
As they say on the internet, we are fast approaching the “finding out” stage of FAFO.
I would never be willing to fight for Britain, but given the chance I would be very, very happy to fight against Russia.
I’m pretty sure the Ukrainian foreign legion is still looking for fighters. You could be a ‘very very happy’ man in Sudzha in a matter of weeks!
Then I’ve got great news for you. There’s a war going on right now which meets those exact criteria and, even better, the non-Russian side is recruiting.
Do make sure to keep us regularly updated.
What is stopping you. JFDI.
Chris,
Let me help you in 10 easy steps to be very happy and fight the Russians:
1. Fly to Krakow/Katowice.
2. Take direct train to Przemysl Glowny, every hour between 0600 and 1800.
3. Take the bus from the bus station opposite Przemysl Glowny to Medyka, every 30 minutes.
4. Step off bus at Medyka, and walk the 100 yards or so to the Polish border control.
5. At Ukrainian border control, UK passport holders can use the “EU door” to avoid any unlikely queue into Ukraine…welcome to Ukraine.
6. As you turn onto the high street in Mostys’ka there is a big corrugated gate to your left.
7. Knock on the gate, and wait for someone in combat fatigues to open the gate.
8. Indicate that you want to “sign up” to fight the Russians with a “Слава Україні!”.
9. Handover your passport.
10. Within a couple of weeks you will be fighting the Russians.
You can sign up in advance here:
https://ildu.com.ua
It’s a valid distinction.
A great example is Arthur Koestler novel scum of the earth.
Maybe the Britpoppers have realised that there ‘are plenty of enemies still out there‘, but younger people are on the same page as JD Vance. The enemies are closer to home.
It isn’t Putin’s fault that we had a rubbish time at school, were advised to take on massive debt to get a degree of ‘questionable value’, have to pay extortionate rents but can’t buy a house, can’t afford to be stay-at-home parents (or pay for childcare…), and have to live in ‘communities’ that have been stripped of all the social goods that made them worth living in.
They should be glad that today’s young adults are so disinclined to violence, or they might find themselves on the wrong end of it.
When you stand for nothing, anything is acceptable. I would cite open border nationalism as the most egregious example. As many in the right of centre bubble are saying: if you want to defend the country, start with Kent. Legitimacy is the requirement and successive UK governments have none on this topic.
I still believe if the country was being genuinely threatened then large numbers of young men would fight.
It’s easy to say you won’t when there’s no danger to your way of life (the famous Oxford debate said they’d never fight for King and Country but all of them ended up doing so), but if there’s a genuine risk of invasion most will grudgingly take up arms
You are joking.
My sons won’t fight because this country hate them and there inheritance has been betrayed.
Not a single one of their friends would fight for this country because they have been educated to despise it and they have been completely feminized
It depends a bit on who the invader is and what they are doing exactly. For example, during the second world war there was already some support for national-socialist ideology in other European countries, and when the nazi’s occupied these countries there was quite some collaboration. In these Western European countries the nazi’s also did not behave that badly as compared to Eastern Europe, for example. Unless of course you were Jewish, Roma, gay etc. It is when the occupying force brings lawlessness, randomly executing your friends and having their way with your wife that the atmosphere will change pretty quickly.
But that last isn’t that happening already,
I do not think it would make a difference.
I do not think we need to fear lawlessness. So long as you tow the line you should be OK, which is where we are at the moment.
Especially if there is no alternative. No join up. No dole. Starve.
My perception was that far from being ‘sincere’ in its patriotism, the BritPop generation was always indulging in a camp, ironic reclamation of British symbolism. How could the Union Flag stand for anything, either jingoistic or progressive, once it was reduced to a dress design for a manufactured pop group. In this regard though it was just a continuation and extension of Mod and Punk.
The UK began to abandon patriotism as part of its culture a long, long time ago. Read Orwell on England and Englishness and you see that this is nothing new.
There was similar pessimism in the 1930s. Read Orwell or the reactions to the famous Oxford Union debate. It proved possible, however, to mobilise support for WW2 by supplementing patriotism with a (correct) view that it was a struggle against a truely evil and megalomaniacal regime.
The problem is that pursuing rational diplomacy to end a limited proxy war is difficult to combine with overheated and simplistic rhetoric.
We didn’t vote our way into this mess. Are we going to vote our way out?
For the true patriots left in this land, the window of opportunity is closing. Are we going to take our country back? Or cough up the jizya like good little liberals?
Tick tock.
Starmer is such a twot. “Proud to be patriotic” as if patriotism is some sort of object, residing in a display case that is taken out, polished and admired from time to time. It’s innate, either you are or you aren’t and as such it’s not something one takes pride in – all this illustrates is that he has no understanding of the concept. He also appears to have no understanding of war either, with his ludicrous posing (in a suit someone else bought) around putting British boots on the ground in Ukraine. The army is so hollowed out, ill equipped and under-resourced that even if we fielded all fifty thousand odd it would make little difference. Fifty odd thousand – that’s all we’ve got. Years and years of decline and underinvestment and woke crappery. However, I don’t agree with Mary on her premise that the will to fight has gone – the trouble is that those who want to can’t get in to the services – over the last ten years around 100,000 potential recruits *per year* have dropped out of the forces recruit process because their applications took too long and they gave up and did something else. That’s what happens when you outsource to Capita. So by now we could have had armed services at least 500,000 strong had the will been there. But what if the cost I hear the naysayers cry. What of it? We seem to be quite prepared to subsidise nearly 9 million people to do nothing at all. And I can assure you if something else if someone rocks up to take away the toys of gen Z and the rest and tramples on all their pretensions they’ll learn to fight fast enough. Peace makes you weak, war makes you strong.
The Army has been run down over 40+ years and deliberately so and not to no objections. Plenty of ex military in their day.called it out. But they were ignored and also mocked as ‘Colonel Blimps’ The reason for this is to JUSTIFY Conscription.
Now the Author almost certainly never been near a military training establishment or spoken with those trained. Almost to a man and woman they want to see action. A number of our best regiments have been deeply involved in training Ukrainian forces. That generates a brotherhood and they’d join them tmoro if they could.
What Author also fails to appreciate is if/when a conflict breaks out in which our forces are involved there is a spike upwards in applications. If the conflict drags on with many casualties then that changes, but initially the reverse happens.
10% of British forces are currently from an ethnic minority. 14% of the overall population is. It’s a gap but not massive.
Better pay and ‘resettlement’ support (what help you get when you come out) would aid recruitment. Guarantee good housing post service and bobs your uncle.
We’re a long way off conscription being needed. You can expand our forces without that need and once even just a few weeks into basic they’ll want to fight.
What percentage of young men have “been near a military training establishment”?
Are they representative of the general population?
Bit irrelevant that ES – they haven’t written an article on the subject have they. Point being if you are going to do so understand the subject a bit more.
I don’t doubt that among people who have chosen to be soldiers “Almost to a man and woman they want to see action”. In fact, I’d be worried if that wasn’t the case.
Mary’s article is about young people at large – the ones who would be conscripted if insufficient numbers volunteered.
From what I’ve read, conscription was the trigger for the Easter Rising of 1916. You might manage to forcibly conscript isolated white boys, but you’ll have a harder time extracting Muslims from Birmingham.
You just can’t wait, can you?
If I was 40 years younger perhaps. I remained a reservist for a few years but too old now.
My boys are trainers. They’d welcome the chance to help the Ukrainians they’ve been helping train alongside our own intakes. As a parent that makes me nervous but I understand the mentality too.
People been protecting you all your life.
Didn’t Orwell say something about us being protected by “rough men prepared to do violence”?
It’s as true now as it always has been. Thankfully Britain still has some of those men, although why they would now “do violence” on our behalf at the risk of being tried as a war criminal defeats me.
The modern version is, of course, the famous Jack Nicholson line “you can’t handle the truth”…and most people can’t, particularly our politicians.
However Britain has no national interest at stake in the Ukraine and our “rough men” shouldn’t be wasted there.
You weren’t protecting me in Iraq or Afghanistan. Or the Falklands. You were playing patsy for politicians trying to distract us from their failures at home.
It’s the same with Ukraine. Putin poses no threat to me, or to British interests generally. All the time you are bloviating about Russia several thousand military age unskilled and uneducated men are landing on our beaches while you pretend not to notice.
Enjoyed this article from Mary but for future reference Julia HB is not from the Right. She is a gobby flabby woke idiot.
And actually that was just the British version of what happened everywhere. The ideals and pop culture of the 60s and trauma from the second world war produced a postmodern society that was coopted by a neoliberal desire for migration and globalism. Why? To keep wages down and demand up. It is really not much more complicated. Another example is women joining the workforce sugar coated as progressive emancipation.
Anyway, when it comes to “the willingness to fight”, Britain is not even the least patriotic European country, according to some data floating around on the internet. All of Western Europe shows a very low willingness. However, I think these numbers can also be explained because Western Europeans just do not actually see an external enemy in the Russians despite the Ukrainian conflict. They know, on some level, that our leaders beating the war drum likely serves some ulterior motive since there is an almost 0% chance Russia would or could invade Western Europe.
Perhaps we should test Vance’s hypothesis and ask Europeans – especial young Europeans – if they “would fight an enemy from within”. And then break it down to all these nice groups and identities we have in our societies. I suspect the results of such a poll would scare the pants off European leaders.
Hear, hear!! I agree with most of this article, but the underlying assumption that we actually have an enemy which Europe and the UK will be required to fight is unfounded. Poppy c**k, as they used to say..
Anyone who permits a 1,000 children to be killed by other children carrying knives on British street is as morally bankrupting as sacrificing close to a million Ukrainians to wage a proxy war on Russia.
My solution would then be to conscript knife carrying minors to fight in the Ukraine. That would exposing the three year’s of bloodletting for what they are, and hopefully were.
This isn’t that far away from what Russia actually did at the start of the Ukraine invasion – they emptied the prisons by offering violent thugs and rapists a pardon in return for 6 months at the front. It was like the Soviet WW2 ‘penal battalions’ where criminals ‘paid for their crimes with their blood’.
Unsurprisingly their casualty rates were very high.
I did have a good childhood in the 90s and often get nostalgic about it. But a lot of it was based on so much fakery. Of course, things are not good now and the fakery is even worse
John, the 70-year-old Cockney, may well have needed lecturing on the lessons of Munich, 1938. He wasn’t born until 1950, so it wasn’t exactly his “lived experience”, and as we all know, age doesn’t always bring wisdom.
Also, who are these “Britpoppers” of whom he speaks? Not a term for a group I’ve ever heard before.,
“Starmer himself is arguably himself a post-national Britpopper par excellence”
Starmer himself is a member of the Trilateral Commission.
Don’t imagine that he’s just bobbing along in the cultural currents, like the masses.
He’s post-national, sure, but not in a good way.
Well, the old style patriotism is dead. Thankfully so. Why fight and die for a country? It is values that really count. Democracy, rule of law, freedom of movement, good universities. These are the important things. I would never fight for Britain or Norway or Germany (the three countries I have lived) I would however fight for freedom and the rule of law
We have neither freedom nor the rule of law
People matching off to war to fight for ‘good universities’! What a larf!
I don’t get this ‘willing to fight’ stuff. The point of conscription is that it is mandatory, nobody is asking, it is fight or go to prison. I’m speaking as someone who was raised in South Africa in apartheid years, when all white males were subject to conscription. Do you think they all fought because of some shared desire to protect white supremacy? Not at all, it was just the way it was, and there was no choice. The same goes for the draftees in the Vietnam war.
Conscription would not work. First it would breach the ECHR. Second, if the choice was conscription or prison most young people would chose prison
Conscription or firing squad might motivate them.
Or it might motivate them to rebel.
Or rioting.
I honestly don’t think it’s going to be that simple.
As usual from Mary Harrington, there’s a lot of truth in this article.
If it came to it, I think most people in Britain would fight in Britain to defend against a foreign invader, but it’s a good thing young people aren’t keen to sacrifice themselves in foreign trenches at the whim of our political class, as young men did in WW1.
Our political class is impoverishing us, destroying our culture, and clamping down on individual freedom. They don’t deserve our loyalty.
Ordinary young men won’t fight for Starmer, except at the point of a gun. Conscription will be the only option. I hope it doesn’t come to that.
It is going to because THAT IS THE PLAN and right now in Whitehall the logistics are being worked out and codified. It’s not if – it’s when.
Gen X proved willing to fight in Iraq and Afghan but there will be a problem with Millennials and Gen Z.
Darkest Hour. LOL! The end of history ending in semi-mythology.
The darkness must be in that which is not remembered. The quotes that are attributed to Churchill, such as the tiger-in-mouth one used in this film, that were never said by him.
If the Britpoppers and Gen Z want to experience what standing up to dictators involves, let them get a cookbook used in the Second World War and a ration card of the time. Try living like that for a month. No smashed burgers or avocados on wholewheat. The ration of whale meat really only fit for pets (our cetacean chums sacrifice for standing up to dictators).
If the generation of 1914 had been unwilling to listen to the braying of the Tory Party for war and had not been so deferential, that diplomatists’ war might have been stopped.
Do the likes of Julia Hartley-Brewer ask what foreign policy Gen Z would be fighting for, if it came to that? As in 1914, defence includes Britain’s foreign policy. Must the Estonians view of Russia as a permanent enemy become the UK’s foreign policy?
To take Gen Z (of whatever background) into a war, peace keeping, or even to justify increase in defence spending, the government must carry them with it, commanding their trust and respect.
But what does Gen Z find? A House of Commons unanimous in support of a minerals deal, congratulating themselves on their moral uprightness, even though the arrangement was formerly derided as being as grossly immoral as any colonial one.
And in doing so expressing their servility to one country. While at the same time servility was expressed to another in the Prime Minister’s group hug-in with that country’s president.
A performance almost combining in a rough cookery the major elements of Chamberlain on the balcony of Buckingham Palace with handing over Britain’s gold and securities to the USA in 1940.
As the Good Books says, a man cannot serve two masters. The USA’s liberty is based on the belief that in international relations a country cannot have permanent friends or permanent enemies. A dictator doesn’t always have to be ‘stood up to’ though war, but can be though peace as well. Julia, enough of the GCSE jingoism.
I wrote the following comment on an UnHerd article a couple of weeks ago. I’m glad that Mary can see this clearly, too:
“What does it even mean to be ‘British’ now. Not much, I’d suggest. Any meaning it had has been thoroughly hollowed out. But it’s not just the young who ‘hate Britain’. I have lived here for over 30 years, longer than Gen Z. When I first arrived in the 1990s, Britain was a great place, a place that was confident and one that was not scared of its own past. Fast forward to 2025, and it could not be more different. I truly believe that ‘Britain’ – whatever that stands for now other than a political border – is broken. It is neither a good nor nice place to live (I really wish it was!). I am looking to leave as soon as I can, unfortunately. My son, who is a Gen Z’er and British (and centre right leaning) said that he’d struggle to accept the idea that he should go to war and potentially sacrifice his life for this country. Why? Because he says, quite rightly, what would I be fighting for? A grotesquely bloated, woke state machine that hates and derides at every oppotunity the nation’s proud history; one that tells him, if he dare questions it, that he has no ‘legitimate or respectable right’ to exist in ‘modern Britain’, especially if he does not capitulate, without question, to gender ideology and Critical Race Theory interpretations of who he is and his place in British society. Here is my challenge: who, reading this, would put their hand up and say ‘yeah, I’m willing to sacrifice my life for that’?! This is the problem, and why the likes of Russia and China will walk into Britain, eventually, without having to fire a shot – because no one, let alone the hard-Left goons who got Britain into this mess, will be willing to defend it, because they will know in their heart of hearts that there is nothing left worth defending. It’s very sad.”
In the two world wars British people just marched off and did their duty. Only when they came home did they decide what it was they had been fighting for.
The British people who matched off and “did their duty” had all undergone a school education designed to fit them for their predestined course in life. The working folk had been taught enough to operate machinery,turn up on time to clock in and be content with stodgy unappetizing food. The upper officer class ,(men and women) had been taught to lead,to handle weapons,to order lesser folk about and to revere the land and the old ways of rural life which of course were the first things to go after 1945.
One doesn’t fight for an idea with guns and bombs, one fights for land and treasure. Actual fact, though, is that we the grunts are obliged to fight and kill other grunts with whom we have no personal quarrel on behalf of people we’ve never met so that those people can divvy out the land and treasure once enough people have been killed.
Give us a flag and a song, and maybe a national costume, and you can persuade us that we have a personal stake in a war. Clever, eh?
It’s still all bullshit, though. Hermann Goering called it correctly, credit where it’s due.
Fight for a regime that permits hostile colonists to gang rape our children for decades?
I think not.
I’ll fight if the need arises, but it won’t be on their side.
Why would any sensible person be motivated to fight for a country whose leaders have, for thirty years (and most especially the last 15 years), told us to feel ashamed of Britain’s history, culture, heritage and achievements; who’ve lauded and promoted every alien culture other than British; who’ve admitted millions of alien people into this country, many of whom despise us and have no interest in adopting our so-called values and way of life.
Were I of fighting age I would refuse to be called up.
As a gringo I can say that the best time I ever had in London was stumbling in to a random pub in late-Thatcherite Camden Town. Full of smoke. Local music. Everyone singing along. A heavy bucket got passed around in to take in the heavy volume of cash.
Within a few years, Camden Town seemed to have been paved over and rebuilt, all sparkling and everything. It lost part of its soul, although I did appreciate the Jazz Cafe and rue the fact that I never managed to see Courtney Pine perform there. Although I did see Jackson, Mississippi native Casandra Wilson…
But, then the late 90’s emptiness of “Cool Britannia”… London soon got absorbed in the false self-image projected in Love, Actually (2002?): a Blairite standing up to those meddling, cowboy Yankees! Everything so inclusive!
It may have taken another 20 years, but those meddling cowboys seem to have shaken off their false self-image as projected in Charlie Wilson’s War (2007). A financially exhausted empire can’t keep up appearances.
In the United States of the Clinton era, there was some debate between two competing visions:
(1) The Cold War is over. Let’s reduce defense spending and enjoy a “peace dividend.” And, let’s anticipate Russia integrating itself back into the world.
(2) The Wolfowitz/Brzezinski vision: We’re the lone superpower. Let’s suppress the rise of any potential rivals–most notably, let’s suppress the rise of China, Japan, Germany, the EU as a whole … and Russia. Indeed, let’s encircle Russia and try to induce it’s dissolution (into ethnic homogeneous states? something else?). Let’s dress this vision up as the “rules-based international order,” and for reasons that remain puzzling, let’s celebrate it with drag shows.
With the “Trump” phenomenon, the Wolfowitz/Brzezinski crowd is in retreat. but not yet entirely defeated. Like a cancer, it may grow back. Alternatively, the New World may yet inspire the Old World to rescue itself. Y’all badly need it.
Nothing to disagree with in any of that.
Why would anyone join Starmers army, he is prosecuting the army of the 60/70/80s for supposed war crimes.
Screw him are the relevant words, Britpoppers my ass.
And yet the Britpoppers helped create a Britain that is less homophobic, racist and sexist than it was when they were kids.
I would argue that the issue is more that the Ukraine conflict is peripheral to Britain’s interests, both strategically and geographically. I have no interest in risking my boys’ lives (or for that matter my own) over an intractable border war.
I guess we will see if being less homophobic racist and sexist is enough to sustain a civilization. I doubt it.
They will fight in the in the inner city ghettos, against the enemy within.
Well, perhaps it is unfashionable to strike an optimistic note, but – it’s not just UK and EU young people who are not very keen on fighting. Putin has a problem too: white ethno-Russian young people are also very unkeen, which is why so many emigrated once the “special operation” was launched. The Russians have been relying on the cannon fodder provided by ethnic minority non-white troops from places so economically and socially disadvantaged that they can be wooed with offers of even halfway reasonable, pay, and now North Koreans who hardly know where the hell they are.
I believe the reason we are facing this frightening dilemma is because of globalist ideology that has dominated politics, media and academia since the late 80s early 90s. Brit pop was a brand name constructed in order to accessorise and make “cool” the ideas and policies of the so-called third way, New Labour. Many artists who should have known better were flattered to be invited to Downing St and paraded before the press alongside the new leaders of the country. Globalisation, the erosion of nation state and cultural homogeneity was all part of the plan – the UN nations was pushing this idea for Europe and various political leaders had been carefully groomed and selected to spearhead the movement.
Mass migration didn’t happen because of Britpop, it happened because that had been identified as the most effective means of erasing forever national homogeneity and patriotism. In 2012, Peter Sutherland, UN Migration Chief, 2006-2017, an arch globalist, lectured the House of Lords saying it was the duty of all EU leaders to undermine national homogeneity by in order to achieve dynamic economies and ensure the success of globalisation. He had been despatched to speak because at the time the new government under Cameron was threatening to lower immigration to the tens of thousands. That had to be stopped by any and all means.
Decades of teaching children to be ashamed of their country’s history was all part of the stupid plot and it is still going on even as they beat the drum for war.
The solution is simple. Conscription at 60.
It’s ideal. Many are retired so no productivity issues and they are fighting for the world they made so should be a ok with it.
It would also deal with additional healthcare costs for seniors. Military regime should provide health or the alternative to the benefit of society.
‘Theme Park Britain’ was how a prescient article in the 1990s expressed this all too real twee-ification and product-ification of Britishness.
In August 1914 three million Brits VOLUNTEERED for the armed services. In 1939 some 500,000 volunteered, but most just waited for the letter to drop through the door. And next time…?
Most people dont want yo fight ever.
I very much enjoyed the article, but I took issue with the bit at the end to the extent it characterizes the younger generation as fully buying in to the Poppers‘ worldview.
My read is essentially the opposite. Nobody is more acutely aware of hypocrisy than children are of their parents’. The palpable nihilism measured in these polls is because the younger generation has lost faith in their leadership class. Rather than buying the feel-good, utopian propaganda, they see it for what it really is: unserious, self-congratulatory puffery from people who have failed to solve real problems.
In many ways the young are the only group immune from the permission structures set up to constrain thought. First, scolding children increases rather than decreases a desire to break the rules and test boundaries. The progressive thought-minders met their match in the snarky fourteen-year-olds who get a rise out of breaking the rules. Second, kids have an uncanny ability to evade regimes of control. These online Ferris Buellers always stay one (or ten) steps ahead of their establishment handlers. Third, as these children transition into adulthood, they’re becoming more aware of the mess they’re being handed. Forgive the gendered imagery, but most young people equate their rulers with wine-drunk socialites who squandered the family fortune on laughably picayune causes.
The real challenge is that incompetent governance is all these young kids have ever known. Too many are instilled in a belief that decline and mediocrity are inevitable or irreversible. The future hinges on them rediscovering their faith in themselves and the nation-state as a force for positive change.
Surely the drive to fight is not patriotism, but freedom. And the latest generations, when push comes to shove, will value that more than prior because they have more to lose.
So 11% of young people would be willing to fight for Britain. Nor surprising, but I’m more interested in the unasked question. What percentage would be, if it came down to it, willing to fight against Britain?
I’d lay money on it being higher than 11%.
War is an awful thing, always to be approached with dread. With that in view, can it be a surprise if British youth (or youth living in Britain) are reluctant to fight abroad? It seems from what I read that native Britons have been taught to disdain their heritage, so why should those British subjects who don’t share that heritage, and thus its culture, have any real enthusiasm for it? Further to this, a necessary product of globalism is the suppresion of patriotism and local loyalties. Put these things together and it seems unlikely that a military adventure would go well even if Britain had enough equipment to support it logistically. I suppose the argument will be made that British national security depends on British soldiers in Ukraine, but perhaps the best that Britain can hope for now is to defend the island itself should it ever come to that. There might be time enough to prepare for that, and a direct threat to British territory itself might provoke a willing defense.
I’ll sign up the day Emily Thornberry drapes the cross of Saint George from her upstairs window, having recently flitted to a council semi in a white van.
Over the past decade I’ve advised my kids to head for the hills, and I’ll help them, if the Government ever tried conscription. Western Government’s don’t deserve our lives nor obedience. We should not fight for what they stand for. Citizens should only agree to fight if all ex-politicians of the past decade are forced into the 1st Expeditionary / Defence Force, and if the current Parliament resigns.
Well written, well analysed, totally wrong. Recruitment will go through the roof whenever there’s a fight to be had. Our youth are wonderful, as always. The average recruit is not interested in surveys, and certainly isn’t interested in James O’Brien’s wringing wet self loathing underpants. To re-establish credible deterrance, pay and treat our forces properly. This ‘our people won’t fight’ crap is Russian 5D warfare propaganda.
What seems to be missing here is any reference to British involvement in the invasion of Iraq, and our role in Afghanistan. Those young people who don’t want to join the armed forces may have a well-founded feeling that they will likely be fighting someone else’s wars. And being defeated in both Basra and Helmand won’t have helped.
This article may have some truth to it, but it is a large load for a dress to carry. We are probably at the end of the Long Peace, but I doubt that a Spice Girl’s bosom, however wrapped plated much part in Putin’s calculations.
We are a long time from when war came around for each generation. Our last wars were fought as followers of American Presidents’ search for legacy, and effectively we were defeated in Basra and in Helmand: not a good look. Nor are the army and navy where young men might look for pay, food and accommodation in an age of state benefits.
https://thecritic.co.uk/conservatives-can-no-longer-trust-institutions/
Amen.