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What does Caitlin Moran know about men? There isn't just one type of masculinity

Caitlin Moran, big fan of 'party vag sounds' (Matthew Horwood/Getty Images)

Caitlin Moran, big fan of 'party vag sounds' (Matthew Horwood/Getty Images)


July 7, 2023   6 mins

It’s a brave soul that dares offer advice to the opposite sex these days. Women authors tend to stick to listing men’s flaws so that female audiences can enjoy the resulting catharsis. Men are pretty much banned from making any generalisation about women, good or bad.

But Times columnist Caitlin Moran is bolder. With her new book, What About Men?, she goes where few women have gone before. Having noticed that young men seem to be in crisis, she now attempts to get inside the mind of the modern male in order to help him out.

Early signs suggest that it’s not going down brilliantly with the Other Side; even the Times reviewer has reservations. And the Twitter commentariat is enjoying posting outraged screenshots of excerpts. “Patronising”, “shallow” and “one-dimensional”, have been some of the verdicts from men so far.

I’ve read the book, and though the intentions behind it are admirable, I agree that it has problems. Moran apparently thinks not just that masculinity is wholly cultural, but that there’s only one version of it, entirely based on her husband, his mates, and some sons of her friends. Every bloke in the world likes rock music, wears disgustingly decrepit gym gear and won’t talk to his friends about fatherhood or relationships. Equally, she seems to think that all women are exactly like she is — dorky, warm, garrulous and funny. They dish out copious tea and sympathy, enjoy avid discussions of pop culture and bodily functions, and bond over how terrible the Seventies were.

She reduces the issue of whether any behavioural differences between the sexes are partly due to biological factors, to the straw man of whether there are “massive differences between male and female brains”, ignoring the potential influence of smaller brain differences, or of pre-natal and circulating sex hormones. (And this in a section where, two pages later, she observes without any apparent sense of tension that “girls develop their fine motor skills earlier than boys”.) She flat-out denies that there are “any major differences in the language skills of boys and girls”, ignoring swathes of evidence that suggest otherwise for early childhood. I’m not saying such questions are definitively settled in either direction, but it smacks of laziness to pretend they are.

She also takes a “creative” approach to explanations of behavioural difference, as exemplified by her Just-So story of how the male conversational style developed (that is: heavy on banter and technicality; light on in-depth analyses of the couples on Love Island). Boys start school at a disadvantage to girls because they can’t hold a pen. A catastrophic chain of developmental events then unfolds, according to our author. While girls race ahead with their communication skills, boys lose confidence, start reading comic books rather than Little Women or Anne of Green Gables, and take refuge for their lack of ability to understand the social world in jokes about gay people, and descriptions of the internal combustion engine. For the unreconstructed sexist who suspects that women should steer clear of scientific explanation, Moran’s approach here is unfortunately likely to serve as further confirmation.

And then there’s the relentlessly ribald writing style. I’ve never positively wished for sensitivity readers and trigger warnings before, but there’s a first time for everything. Demystifying sex for the reader is one thing; making him grimace so hard his face seizes up, another. If, as Moran seems to think, bedroom preferences are formed by exposure to certain scenarios early on in life, hers seem to have been shaped by reading too many Viz magazines. I came away from the book mostly thinking we need to Make Sex Sexy Again as a matter of national emergency.

For instance, on women (and I apologise in advance for this), “if we’re very ‘vocal’, and loud, during sex – ‘YES! YES!’ – it might be because we’re aware we’re doing fannyfarts, and don’t want you to hear the party vag-sounds that are happening ‘down there’”. Male ejaculation is “Nature’s splendid custard-y firework display”. Whereas men allegedly never discuss their genitalia, we women “tell each other, constantly, to rejoice in our minges” (we do what?). Moran recounts how she once spent a whole afternoon, stoned, talking to her husband’s testicles and “seeing how they reacted to my varying chats”. (Spoiler: they shrivelled). If this prose is really aimed at teenage boys as it sometimes pretends to be, let’s just say that the birth rate is not likely to improve anytime soon.

Other parts are more successful. She is right that young men increasingly struggle with body image issues, that most internet pornography is violent and soul-destroying, and that false whispers about sexual misdemeanours can ruin a young man’s life. She tries hard to be sympathetic about all this, as well as to the idea that young men are beset by images of “toxic masculinity” in a way that is messing them up. And there’s even the odd hint that prevalent feminist approaches might be part of the problem — including her own in previous books.

Post #MeToo, one legacy of mainstream feminism seems to be the policy of shouting at all men about how terrible they are, in the hope that some of the generalised opprobrium sticks to the right candidates. At the same time, men’s ordinary sexual impulses — sometimes irritating, sometimes welcome — are denigrated and treated as inevitably threatening and sinister.

No finer example can be found than in a National Rail poster campaign running at the moment, which thunders: “INTRUSIVE STARING OF A SEXUAL NATURE IS SEXUAL HARASSMENT AND IS NOT TOLERATED.” Everyone knows which biological sex this sinister pronouncement is aimed at (hint: it’s not the one batting her eyelashes furiously at you over her free newspaper).

The fallout from the new puritanism means that sensitive, empathic young men often feel terrible about any sexual behaviours not formally agreed with a partner in writing beforehand; while society continues to do nothing meaningful to stop the sort of hardened offenders unlikely to be influenced by poster campaigns in trains. Youthful coping strategies in response to all this undifferentiated guilt-tripping may include heading towards Andrew Tate videos or heading towards the gender clinic, but either way a different and more nuanced way of doing things would be a lot better.

And it would also be good if we could talk more about what is wonderful about masculinity, and toxic about femininity, without caveats or excuses. When, in the final chapter, Moran eventually gets round to the former, she makes a good stab at it — though, by her own admission, most of the things she thinks we value in men are also things we value in dogs. In fact, I would go further — they are things we value in elderly Labradors. The characteristics she celebrates — being loyal, hard-working, protective, and so on — are all very pro-social and unthreatening to women and children, and unlikely to set the imagination alight of any young man looking for his own hero’s journey.

That young males newly acquainted with massive amounts of testosterone should crave an exciting hero’s journey for themselves is another fact she tries to explain with a Just-So story about acculturation: they’ve read too many comic books about superheroes and “nothing about ordinary teenage boys, trying to learn how to become happy, normal men”. So there you have it — we can combat the allure of Andrew Tate and his ilk by enticing teenage boys to read more boring books. Speaking as a mother of sons who would consider reading comic books a chore when they could be destroying aliens onscreen instead, I’d like to know how she proposes we go about this.

Despite this chapter, throughout most of the earlier stuff, there’s still a barely suppressed sense that Team Woman — or as she has it, Team Tits — has most of the answers, and that members of Team Testicles might get there too if they try hard enough. At one point she suggests, with a characteristically liberal use of italics, that: “Everything that, culturally, is seen as ‘female’, is something anyone can have. These are all things anyone can learn. These are all things anyone can gain. Women weren’t born knowing how to be amazing friends having super-deep conversations about anxiety, and sorrow. Personally, I just learned how to do it from watching The Golden Girls.” Perhaps tellingly, though, there’s little suggestion in the book that women could learn from men about being more loyal or crying less.

Moran is right, of course, that women aren’t born knowing how to understand the complex emotional states of others, in order to be able to listen properly and console them. They need experience, and perhaps also guidance, to activate this capacity. Some women can’t do it at all, while many men can. Still, that doesn’t mean that, across the entire female population, the enhanced capacity of women to understand social relationships isn’t somewhat biologically influenced. To treat feminine traits as a study programme that any man could get up to speed on if he tried seems to be setting men up for failure — and they don’t need more of that.

In any case, perhaps I am female-atypical, but — inviting as it sounds — I couldn’t live in Moran’s smoke-filled, gin-soaked world of warm hugs, tear-stained confidences and frank conversations about bodily fluids for more than 10 minutes at a time. Sometimes, talking about your feelings makes them worse, and sometimes responding empathically to other people’s feelings only makes them more histrionic and attention-seeking. It can be very good to talk, but it can also be very good to shut the hell up and stamp off to dig the garden. As usual, the devil is in the detail. How to Be More Like a Man would be a bold title for any feminist writer, but I’m not sure we should entirely rule it out.


Kathleen Stock is an UnHerd columnist and a co-director of The Lesbian Project.
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AJ Mac
AJ Mac
1 year ago

Ms. Stock’s patient, balanced approach adds persuasive weight and even additional moral force to her arguments. Always thoughtful and reasonable, but readable too. Unlike the author whose work she reviews, Stock refers to her personal experience without assuming it is representative, let alone universal.
Moran’s book sounds reductive and unserious, an exercise in some form of female chauvinism, with snarky condescension to boot. If it’s one-tenth as awful as the review suggests, it can be safely skipped by this guy. I don’t suppose that every more-often-male behavior–like checking on that noise in the night or doing nearly all of the most dangerous jobs (with notable exceptions like the “job” of childbearing)–would be banished from the feminized wonderland Moran imagines. All we menfolk need to do is stay tough and strong, while adopting feminine personalities and interests that would enable a shallow thinking woman to see them as (near) equals. What an incentive! As our resident Mr. O’Mahony once remarked: include me out.
Thanks to Dr. Stock for practicing and articulating an equalitarian form of feminism–one in which equality needn’t be confused with sameness–and for advancing what I’d call a sensible humanism.

Last edited 1 year ago by AJ Mac
Steve Murray
Steve Murray
1 year ago
Reply to  AJ Mac

Thanks AJ, you’ve saved me the trouble of writing the same response.

RM Parker
RM Parker
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve Murray

Seconded.

Mangle Tangle
Mangle Tangle
1 year ago
Reply to  RM Parker

Thirded! (?) A very good article, Ms Stock.

Alphonse Pfarti
Alphonse Pfarti
1 year ago
Reply to  Mangle Tangle

And fifth! This article brightened up a rather dull lunch break.

Last edited 1 year ago by Alphonse Pfarti
David Morley
David Morley
1 year ago

Ditto – and not what I expected.
Have now renewed my subscription, which I’d deliberately allowed to lapse.

David Morley
David Morley
1 year ago

Ditto – and not what I expected.
Have now renewed my subscription, which I’d deliberately allowed to lapse.

Alphonse Pfarti
Alphonse Pfarti
1 year ago
Reply to  Mangle Tangle

And fifth! This article brightened up a rather dull lunch break.

Last edited 1 year ago by Alphonse Pfarti
Mangle Tangle
Mangle Tangle
1 year ago
Reply to  RM Parker

Thirded! (?) A very good article, Ms Stock.

AJ Mac
AJ Mac
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve Murray

No trouble at all, Steve, though I like to think our responses might differ a little. But your point (on another comment board) about the “numerical benefit” of posting first could hardly be better demonstrated than it is here. Not sure I’ve ever been so “upvoted” in my life, in a literal or figurative sense.

Last edited 1 year ago by AJ Mac
RM Parker
RM Parker
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve Murray

Seconded.

AJ Mac
AJ Mac
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve Murray

No trouble at all, Steve, though I like to think our responses might differ a little. But your point (on another comment board) about the “numerical benefit” of posting first could hardly be better demonstrated than it is here. Not sure I’ve ever been so “upvoted” in my life, in a literal or figurative sense.

Last edited 1 year ago by AJ Mac
Richard Maslen
Richard Maslen
1 year ago
Reply to  AJ Mac

Absolutely. One might also add: What does Caitlin Moran (assiduously self-promoted and by the Times) know about anything?

William Shaw
William Shaw
1 year ago
Reply to  Richard Maslen

Moran’s writing is not entirely without value.
There’s some benefit to knowing what women really think of men.
A majority of men go through life in blissful ignorance about how they are regarded. As a result they simp to women and don’t realise they are being rinsed and taken for fools. There’s many a true word said in jest.

Cynthia W.
Cynthia W.
1 year ago
Reply to  William Shaw

“There’s some benefit to knowing what women really think of men.”
Caitlin Moran is not “women.” What she thinks of men is what she thinks of men. Whether that’s useful to any men other than her immediate family is not demonstrated.

William Shaw
William Shaw
1 year ago
Reply to  Cynthia W.

In the various reviews of her book and the associated comments more than one woman has expressed such views. It seems they don’t like her “drawing back the curtain” on what women really think. Too much of that and men might stop pandering.

Last edited 1 year ago by William Shaw
William Shaw
William Shaw
1 year ago
Reply to  Cynthia W.

In the various reviews of her book and the associated comments more than one woman has expressed such views. It seems they don’t like her “drawing back the curtain” on what women really think. Too much of that and men might stop pandering.

Last edited 1 year ago by William Shaw
Caty Gonzales
Caty Gonzales
1 year ago
Reply to  William Shaw

I am a woman and the suggestion that I hold any thoughts in any way similar to the vacuous Moran leaves me, well, shriveled.

William Shaw
William Shaw
1 year ago
Reply to  Caty Gonzales

The book reviewer in The Times has no doubt that Moran speaks for the majority of women.
“If you want to know what women talk about when they are talking about you… you should rush out and buy a copy immediately.”
She’s probably providing an insight into what women think about men that most women don’t want men to know.

Last edited 1 year ago by William Shaw
Sacha C
Sacha C
1 year ago
Reply to  William Shaw

Oh William you boring little man, YOUR feelings towards women are clear, you’re just great at drawing back the curtain on those.
Perhaps Caitlin knows you?
Chatty Willy has lots to say indeed, and it’s very dull and simplistic.

Thank you for being a beautiful example of patriarchy, you inspire way more insights and warnings than any reductive article, such as Moran’s, could ever offer.

William Shaw
William Shaw
1 year ago
Reply to  Sacha C

Based on your reaction it’s obvious Moran’s writing reveals more about women than you would like.

Last edited 1 year ago by William Shaw
William Shaw
William Shaw
1 year ago
Reply to  Sacha C

Based on your reaction it’s obvious Moran’s writing reveals more about women than you would like.

Last edited 1 year ago by William Shaw
Sacha C
Sacha C
1 year ago
Reply to  William Shaw

Oh William you boring little man, YOUR feelings towards women are clear, you’re just great at drawing back the curtain on those.
Perhaps Caitlin knows you?
Chatty Willy has lots to say indeed, and it’s very dull and simplistic.

Thank you for being a beautiful example of patriarchy, you inspire way more insights and warnings than any reductive article, such as Moran’s, could ever offer.

Kirsten Walstedt
Kirsten Walstedt
1 year ago
Reply to  Caty Gonzales

Me too

William Shaw
William Shaw
1 year ago
Reply to  Caty Gonzales

The book reviewer in The Times has no doubt that Moran speaks for the majority of women.
“If you want to know what women talk about when they are talking about you… you should rush out and buy a copy immediately.”
She’s probably providing an insight into what women think about men that most women don’t want men to know.

Last edited 1 year ago by William Shaw
Kirsten Walstedt
Kirsten Walstedt
1 year ago
Reply to  Caty Gonzales

Me too

Jonathan Andrews
Jonathan Andrews
1 year ago
Reply to  William Shaw

There are those nasty women who hold men in contempt like the occasional man who is contemptuous of women.

It’s a bit of a guess but the latter, while terribly destructive, maybe be easier to spot and, chances are, will end up in prison. A beguiling and sexy woman will ill intent will probably get away with great harm.

Sacha C
Sacha C
1 year ago

Yawn yawn and snore…
Jonathan, babe, do you actually know any human women? Or is it just ones on telly you’ve based this on…?
Your response smells like incel?
And it’s really cute that you notice the ‘occasional’ contemptuous man that ‘will end up in prison’, do you realise how silly your comment is?

I love that KS writes something informative and interesting and the best you lot can do is imitate play school.

William Shaw
William Shaw
1 year ago
Reply to  Sacha C

I think you just confirmed what I wrote.

Albert McGloan
Albert McGloan
1 year ago
Reply to  Sacha C

Sacha – if your most beloved young male relative asked you to help him find romantic success with a woman what advice would you give him? Do you think your advice would bring him or his lover happiness? Or would he end up … an incel?

William Shaw
William Shaw
1 year ago
Reply to  Sacha C

I think you just confirmed what I wrote.

Albert McGloan
Albert McGloan
1 year ago
Reply to  Sacha C

Sacha – if your most beloved young male relative asked you to help him find romantic success with a woman what advice would you give him? Do you think your advice would bring him or his lover happiness? Or would he end up … an incel?

Sacha C
Sacha C
1 year ago

Yawn yawn and snore…
Jonathan, babe, do you actually know any human women? Or is it just ones on telly you’ve based this on…?
Your response smells like incel?
And it’s really cute that you notice the ‘occasional’ contemptuous man that ‘will end up in prison’, do you realise how silly your comment is?

I love that KS writes something informative and interesting and the best you lot can do is imitate play school.

Cynthia W.
Cynthia W.
1 year ago
Reply to  William Shaw

“There’s some benefit to knowing what women really think of men.”
Caitlin Moran is not “women.” What she thinks of men is what she thinks of men. Whether that’s useful to any men other than her immediate family is not demonstrated.

Caty Gonzales
Caty Gonzales
1 year ago
Reply to  William Shaw

I am a woman and the suggestion that I hold any thoughts in any way similar to the vacuous Moran leaves me, well, shriveled.

Jonathan Andrews
Jonathan Andrews
1 year ago
Reply to  William Shaw

There are those nasty women who hold men in contempt like the occasional man who is contemptuous of women.

It’s a bit of a guess but the latter, while terribly destructive, maybe be easier to spot and, chances are, will end up in prison. A beguiling and sexy woman will ill intent will probably get away with great harm.

Guy Pigache
Guy Pigache
1 year ago
Reply to  Richard Maslen

She was funny for awhile. But ultimately she is what my mother would call a “potty mouth”

William Shaw
William Shaw
1 year ago
Reply to  Richard Maslen

Moran’s writing is not entirely without value.
There’s some benefit to knowing what women really think of men.
A majority of men go through life in blissful ignorance about how they are regarded. As a result they simp to women and don’t realise they are being rinsed and taken for fools. There’s many a true word said in jest.

Guy Pigache
Guy Pigache
1 year ago
Reply to  Richard Maslen

She was funny for awhile. But ultimately she is what my mother would call a “potty mouth”

Frank McCusker
Frank McCusker
1 year ago
Reply to  AJ Mac

Fourthed lol – enjoyable read. These days, any article where the author “eschews didacticism”, as my old A level English teacher used to put it, gets my vote, as they’re in a shrinking minority.  

AJ Mac
AJ Mac
1 year ago
Reply to  Frank McCusker

Good point. That’s a lesson I could stand to observe more often myself.

AJ Mac
AJ Mac
1 year ago
Reply to  Frank McCusker

Good point. That’s a lesson I could stand to observe more often myself.

Jeremy Bray
Jeremy Bray
1 year ago
Reply to  AJ Mac

As usual an enjoyable read by Kathleen Stock, even if it about a book I have no intention of reading.

Trying to write about men in general is a fool’s errand. Even trying to write about a subset of women such as lesbians would be pointless as is easily observed by comparing the writing of Stock and Bindel on Unherd.

Even the Guardian columnist Gabby Hinscliff managed to notice that all men are not emotionally continent in commenting on Moran’s latest book.

Last edited 1 year ago by Jeremy Bray
AJ Mac
AJ Mac
1 year ago
Reply to  Jeremy Bray

Well said. Our categorized assessments are usually far weaker than they seem to us. If one is talking about 100 million men, let’s say, even 1 percent inaccuracy misses a million people. Heuristic devices or rule-of-thumb shortcuts have their place, but we should try not to stop there.
I despise all absolutes and superlative statements are the worst!

Guy Pigache
Guy Pigache
1 year ago
Reply to  AJ Mac

I liked the irony of “all absolutes”

Guy Pigache
Guy Pigache
1 year ago
Reply to  AJ Mac

I liked the irony of “all absolutes”

Jonathan Andrews
Jonathan Andrews
1 year ago
Reply to  Jeremy Bray

Good point. Stock and Bindel feminist, lesbian journalist who both can interesting. But their outlooks seem widely different

AJ Mac
AJ Mac
1 year ago
Reply to  Jeremy Bray

Well said. Our categorized assessments are usually far weaker than they seem to us. If one is talking about 100 million men, let’s say, even 1 percent inaccuracy misses a million people. Heuristic devices or rule-of-thumb shortcuts have their place, but we should try not to stop there.
I despise all absolutes and superlative statements are the worst!

Jonathan Andrews
Jonathan Andrews
1 year ago
Reply to  Jeremy Bray

Good point. Stock and Bindel feminist, lesbian journalist who both can interesting. But their outlooks seem widely different

Kirsten Walstedt
Kirsten Walstedt
1 year ago
Reply to  AJ Mac

Agree completely!

Apsley
Apsley
1 year ago
Reply to  AJ Mac

Well articulated!

Fafa Fafa
Fafa Fafa
1 year ago
Reply to  AJ Mac

I immensely enjoy KS’s writings on Unherd, she is the main reason I come here. She is very funny in that subtle, highly intelligent way that cuts thru BS like a surgical blade and the pus is out even before the patient could have winced. Her “Why philosophers are so weird” still makes me roll on the floor every time I re-read it.

Steve Murray
Steve Murray
1 year ago
Reply to  AJ Mac

Thanks AJ, you’ve saved me the trouble of writing the same response.

Richard Maslen
Richard Maslen
1 year ago
Reply to  AJ Mac

Absolutely. One might also add: What does Caitlin Moran (assiduously self-promoted and by the Times) know about anything?

Frank McCusker
Frank McCusker
1 year ago
Reply to  AJ Mac

Fourthed lol – enjoyable read. These days, any article where the author “eschews didacticism”, as my old A level English teacher used to put it, gets my vote, as they’re in a shrinking minority.  

Jeremy Bray
Jeremy Bray
1 year ago
Reply to  AJ Mac

As usual an enjoyable read by Kathleen Stock, even if it about a book I have no intention of reading.

Trying to write about men in general is a fool’s errand. Even trying to write about a subset of women such as lesbians would be pointless as is easily observed by comparing the writing of Stock and Bindel on Unherd.

Even the Guardian columnist Gabby Hinscliff managed to notice that all men are not emotionally continent in commenting on Moran’s latest book.

Last edited 1 year ago by Jeremy Bray
Kirsten Walstedt
Kirsten Walstedt
1 year ago
Reply to  AJ Mac

Agree completely!

Apsley
Apsley
1 year ago
Reply to  AJ Mac

Well articulated!

Fafa Fafa
Fafa Fafa
1 year ago
Reply to  AJ Mac

I immensely enjoy KS’s writings on Unherd, she is the main reason I come here. She is very funny in that subtle, highly intelligent way that cuts thru BS like a surgical blade and the pus is out even before the patient could have winced. Her “Why philosophers are so weird” still makes me roll on the floor every time I re-read it.

AJ Mac
AJ Mac
1 year ago

Ms. Stock’s patient, balanced approach adds persuasive weight and even additional moral force to her arguments. Always thoughtful and reasonable, but readable too. Unlike the author whose work she reviews, Stock refers to her personal experience without assuming it is representative, let alone universal.
Moran’s book sounds reductive and unserious, an exercise in some form of female chauvinism, with snarky condescension to boot. If it’s one-tenth as awful as the review suggests, it can be safely skipped by this guy. I don’t suppose that every more-often-male behavior–like checking on that noise in the night or doing nearly all of the most dangerous jobs (with notable exceptions like the “job” of childbearing)–would be banished from the feminized wonderland Moran imagines. All we menfolk need to do is stay tough and strong, while adopting feminine personalities and interests that would enable a shallow thinking woman to see them as (near) equals. What an incentive! As our resident Mr. O’Mahony once remarked: include me out.
Thanks to Dr. Stock for practicing and articulating an equalitarian form of feminism–one in which equality needn’t be confused with sameness–and for advancing what I’d call a sensible humanism.

Last edited 1 year ago by AJ Mac
Jonathan Andrews
Jonathan Andrews
1 year ago

This really matters. Kathleen Stock has a kindness and understanding of men and boys that goes beyond the idiocy that has over taken politics, the media and education.
Boys are told that they basically have original sin and will go round abusing any woman within twenty paces and that girls are innocent, saintly and exploited people who, none-the-less, can do everything just as good as any boy.
You know I think a crazy thing that men and women and boys and girls are individuals with their own strengths and weaknesses; one sex is no better or worse than the other.
I heard Kathleen Stock a couple of years ago talking to Andrew Sullivan and she spoke movingly of her first kiss with another woman and how powerful an effect it had on her. Yet she also spoke well of her ex husband and it was clear she liked men and appreciated men.
I didn’t expect to come to admire her even more

Last edited 1 year ago by Jonathan Andrews
Mangle Tangle
Mangle Tangle
1 year ago

Some people belong to an earlier age, of reasoned and balanced judgement, of emotions respected but not put on a pedestal, and of self-insight. Then we have the modern era. But if it’s any consolation, my two kids (thirty-ish) don’t think like Moran but more like Stock. The problem is that infantile intellectualising like Moran’s is what sells. That, along with a kind of Marxist-like infiltration of media and public sector institutions, is why we hear so much of this tripe nowadays.

Gill Holway
Gill Holway
1 year ago
Reply to  Mangle Tangle

I dont think its marxist drivel…..Its just drivel.!

Gill Holway
Gill Holway
1 year ago
Reply to  Mangle Tangle

I dont think its marxist drivel…..Its just drivel.!

Frank McCusker
Frank McCusker
1 year ago

“You know I think a crazy thing that men and women and boys and girls are individuals with their own strengths and weaknesses; one sex is no better or worse than the other.”
That’s my take on things also, but I agree it’s now deeply unfashionable in this age of the new original sin. Growing up in the wonderfully free 1970s, I assumed that rationality was here to stay, how naïve was that lol.  

AJ Mac
AJ Mac
1 year ago

Aye. Her kindness and willingness to understand really come through.

Peter Johnson
Peter Johnson
1 year ago

Camille Paglia’s writing about men is also very good – sympathetic without making excuses. She wrote an article explaining the different types of male friendship. It was illuminating and pointed out how in some ways male friendships can be healthier than female ones. As a lesbian she also has some funny comments on how hard it is to figure out when a woman is interested in you and expresses some sympathy for men on that front. That said – even if the book discussed is not very good I think the author gets credit for trying.

AJ Mac
AJ Mac
1 year ago
Reply to  Peter Johnson

Yes, I’m glad you mentioned Paglia. She is quite brilliant and once you get used to her somewhat odd and intense voice–both in speaking and writing–there’s a lot to learn, speaking for myself anyway.

Bruni Schling
Bruni Schling
1 year ago
Reply to  AJ Mac

I was going to say the same. I rate Camille Paglia as highly as I rate Kathleen Stock. A balanced view of the dispositions of both sexes is so often missing in discussions.

Bruni Schling
Bruni Schling
1 year ago
Reply to  AJ Mac

I was going to say the same. I rate Camille Paglia as highly as I rate Kathleen Stock. A balanced view of the dispositions of both sexes is so often missing in discussions.

AJ Mac
AJ Mac
1 year ago
Reply to  Peter Johnson

Yes, I’m glad you mentioned Paglia. She is quite brilliant and once you get used to her somewhat odd and intense voice–both in speaking and writing–there’s a lot to learn, speaking for myself anyway.

Cantab Man
Cantab Man
1 year ago

The current militant feminist angle (“I’ll smother men’s free spirit and sense of adventure with ‘thou shalt not’ overbearing, stifling compassion…”) only works as long as the female espousing such a view doesn’t have a son of her own. Once a son comes along, the feminist often realizes how futile it is for the current estrogen-laden anti-male fad to fight against biological evolution.

Men have relatively greater upper body strength and more aggression because, surprise, their ancestors survived and procreated in the bloody dust-ups between villages and tribes. Women (surprise again) also wanted a man who could survive because it also meant their survival. There’s a reason that many women today (among them, vocal feminists) expressed how ‘sexy’ Zelenskyy is when he wears his green fatigues and fights ‘pro aris et focis.’ Women have the same story from a different angle.

How can we as a species walk away from tens-of-thousands of years of evolution in a mere 50 years? Slow-moving evolution retorts back with a smile, “nope.”

Wishing it all away is like planting one’s feet inches from the incoming ocean tide, pointing a finger with a stern look, and demanding the waves to “stop.” Perhaps such a gambit might add a moment of light laughter within a book such as Anne of Green Gables (or Anne of Avonlea – yes, I had older sisters), but it surely doesn’t happen with positive consequences in the real world.

And in the absence of positive manly role models for our future generations, those poor boys who are also being frozen out of educational opportunities will feel the urgent biological need to scurry out from under mom’s skirt as soon as possible and they’ll very possibly end up within the den of iniquity belonging to Andrew Tate or one of his ilk.

This is not what success looks like for men or anyone else.

AJ Mac
AJ Mac
1 year ago
Reply to  Cantab Man

Insightful remarks.
A rather strange-but-brilliant poet and “cultural critic” called Robert Bly (1926-2021) emphasized the critical need for “positive manly role models” (like that phrase), promoting mentorship and “initiation” for younger males, by men who need not be their fathers (in Bly’s model it’s usually better if they’re not). Bly’s so-called mythopoetic men’s movement was mocked by many–not with no cause at all–as a bunch of hairy white dudes crying together around drum circles in the forest.
But there is something of substance and enduring value in his work too. His book The Sibling Society talks of a present-day culture (in 1995, and now) in which many men never quite grow up, due to a lack of connection to deep social and artistic roots: a society of easy, shallow equals that doesn’t truly honor the father or the mother.

AJ Mac
AJ Mac
1 year ago
Reply to  Cantab Man

Insightful remarks.
A rather strange-but-brilliant poet and “cultural critic” called Robert Bly (1926-2021) emphasized the critical need for “positive manly role models” (like that phrase), promoting mentorship and “initiation” for younger males, by men who need not be their fathers (in Bly’s model it’s usually better if they’re not). Bly’s so-called mythopoetic men’s movement was mocked by many–not with no cause at all–as a bunch of hairy white dudes crying together around drum circles in the forest.
But there is something of substance and enduring value in his work too. His book The Sibling Society talks of a present-day culture (in 1995, and now) in which many men never quite grow up, due to a lack of connection to deep social and artistic roots: a society of easy, shallow equals that doesn’t truly honor the father or the mother.

Mangle Tangle
Mangle Tangle
1 year ago

Some people belong to an earlier age, of reasoned and balanced judgement, of emotions respected but not put on a pedestal, and of self-insight. Then we have the modern era. But if it’s any consolation, my two kids (thirty-ish) don’t think like Moran but more like Stock. The problem is that infantile intellectualising like Moran’s is what sells. That, along with a kind of Marxist-like infiltration of media and public sector institutions, is why we hear so much of this tripe nowadays.

Frank McCusker
Frank McCusker
1 year ago

“You know I think a crazy thing that men and women and boys and girls are individuals with their own strengths and weaknesses; one sex is no better or worse than the other.”
That’s my take on things also, but I agree it’s now deeply unfashionable in this age of the new original sin. Growing up in the wonderfully free 1970s, I assumed that rationality was here to stay, how naïve was that lol.  

AJ Mac
AJ Mac
1 year ago

Aye. Her kindness and willingness to understand really come through.

Peter Johnson
Peter Johnson
1 year ago

Camille Paglia’s writing about men is also very good – sympathetic without making excuses. She wrote an article explaining the different types of male friendship. It was illuminating and pointed out how in some ways male friendships can be healthier than female ones. As a lesbian she also has some funny comments on how hard it is to figure out when a woman is interested in you and expresses some sympathy for men on that front. That said – even if the book discussed is not very good I think the author gets credit for trying.

Cantab Man
Cantab Man
1 year ago

The current militant feminist angle (“I’ll smother men’s free spirit and sense of adventure with ‘thou shalt not’ overbearing, stifling compassion…”) only works as long as the female espousing such a view doesn’t have a son of her own. Once a son comes along, the feminist often realizes how futile it is for the current estrogen-laden anti-male fad to fight against biological evolution.

Men have relatively greater upper body strength and more aggression because, surprise, their ancestors survived and procreated in the bloody dust-ups between villages and tribes. Women (surprise again) also wanted a man who could survive because it also meant their survival. There’s a reason that many women today (among them, vocal feminists) expressed how ‘sexy’ Zelenskyy is when he wears his green fatigues and fights ‘pro aris et focis.’ Women have the same story from a different angle.

How can we as a species walk away from tens-of-thousands of years of evolution in a mere 50 years? Slow-moving evolution retorts back with a smile, “nope.”

Wishing it all away is like planting one’s feet inches from the incoming ocean tide, pointing a finger with a stern look, and demanding the waves to “stop.” Perhaps such a gambit might add a moment of light laughter within a book such as Anne of Green Gables (or Anne of Avonlea – yes, I had older sisters), but it surely doesn’t happen with positive consequences in the real world.

And in the absence of positive manly role models for our future generations, those poor boys who are also being frozen out of educational opportunities will feel the urgent biological need to scurry out from under mom’s skirt as soon as possible and they’ll very possibly end up within the den of iniquity belonging to Andrew Tate or one of his ilk.

This is not what success looks like for men or anyone else.

Jonathan Andrews
Jonathan Andrews
1 year ago

This really matters. Kathleen Stock has a kindness and understanding of men and boys that goes beyond the idiocy that has over taken politics, the media and education.
Boys are told that they basically have original sin and will go round abusing any woman within twenty paces and that girls are innocent, saintly and exploited people who, none-the-less, can do everything just as good as any boy.
You know I think a crazy thing that men and women and boys and girls are individuals with their own strengths and weaknesses; one sex is no better or worse than the other.
I heard Kathleen Stock a couple of years ago talking to Andrew Sullivan and she spoke movingly of her first kiss with another woman and how powerful an effect it had on her. Yet she also spoke well of her ex husband and it was clear she liked men and appreciated men.
I didn’t expect to come to admire her even more

Last edited 1 year ago by Jonathan Andrews
Andrew Raiment
Andrew Raiment
1 year ago

Funny, I always thought of Caitlin Moran’s attitude as being that of a teenage boy The attention seeking, constant gurning in photographs, telling tales and of course the obsession with sex. Her shtick wore out several years ago. Will she still be doing this in her fifties? Cringe

Steve Murray
Steve Murray
1 year ago
Reply to  Andrew Raiment

We should “tell each other, constantly”, to rejoice in our cringes.

polidori redux
polidori redux
1 year ago
Reply to  Andrew Raiment

She near enough is fifty

Charles Stanhope
Charles Stanhope
1 year ago
Reply to  polidori redux

By her own admission she is from a very large family of ‘benefit scroungers’. Thus not a good example.

Charles Stanhope
Charles Stanhope
1 year ago
Reply to  polidori redux

By her own admission she is from a very large family of ‘benefit scroungers’. Thus not a good example.

Rob deKok
Rob deKok
1 year ago
Reply to  Andrew Raiment

Ditto Kathy Lette

Steve Murray
Steve Murray
1 year ago
Reply to  Andrew Raiment

We should “tell each other, constantly”, to rejoice in our cringes.

polidori redux
polidori redux
1 year ago
Reply to  Andrew Raiment

She near enough is fifty

Rob deKok
Rob deKok
1 year ago
Reply to  Andrew Raiment

Ditto Kathy Lette

Andrew Raiment
Andrew Raiment
1 year ago

Funny, I always thought of Caitlin Moran’s attitude as being that of a teenage boy The attention seeking, constant gurning in photographs, telling tales and of course the obsession with sex. Her shtick wore out several years ago. Will she still be doing this in her fifties? Cringe

John Riordan
John Riordan
1 year ago

” For the unreconstructed sexist who suspects that women should steer clear of scientific explanation, Moran’s approach here is unfortunately likely to serve as further confirmation.”

It’s clear Kathleen Stock is well past the traumatic phase of her ejection from bien-pensant society and is firmly into the phase of enjoying herself at its expense.

And damn right, too.

Last edited 1 year ago by John Riordan
John Riordan
John Riordan
1 year ago

” For the unreconstructed sexist who suspects that women should steer clear of scientific explanation, Moran’s approach here is unfortunately likely to serve as further confirmation.”

It’s clear Kathleen Stock is well past the traumatic phase of her ejection from bien-pensant society and is firmly into the phase of enjoying herself at its expense.

And damn right, too.

Last edited 1 year ago by John Riordan
Matt M
Matt M
1 year ago

On a related note, I have been amused by the recent stories about the commercial disaster that has befallen Disney. They paid a king’s ransom for LucasFilm but have only managed to release flop after box office flop.

The cause seems to be wishful thinking among their execs that there are no differences between boys and girls and so they have tried to remake Star Wars and Indiana Jones with female leads!

If it helps, these are the facts. Boys like action films, girls like romances. True the odd woman likes Zulu and the odd man likes Love Actually but they are not typical of their sex.

Fiction is essentially wish-fulfilment. You imagine yourself in the role of Bond or Superman and to make that happen for the (male) audience, it is essential that a man had the starring role.

Girls will not flock to cinemas to watch action films no matter who is the lead and boys will not do so if a woman is the lead.

The Disney team tried to bend reality to their will and may end up seriously damaging their company.

A salutary lesson: Go woke, go broke!

Jeff Butcher
Jeff Butcher
1 year ago
Reply to  Matt M

The other thing they do is make the female characters absolute girl bosses who are AMAZING at everything, with no arc of character development to make them more sympathetic and interesting – see Rey in Star Wars for instance. She’s like an insufferable head girl with a light sabre.

Apsley
Apsley
1 year ago
Reply to  Jeff Butcher

WOMEN-IN-CHARGE!
21st Century paradigm. Just follow BBC Radio 4 and work out the proportions of women vs men CEOs interviewed daily. It’s not just in films that the thrusting, cutting, decisive women-in-charge rule. Misandry is rife.

Apsley
Apsley
1 year ago
Reply to  Jeff Butcher

WOMEN-IN-CHARGE!
21st Century paradigm. Just follow BBC Radio 4 and work out the proportions of women vs men CEOs interviewed daily. It’s not just in films that the thrusting, cutting, decisive women-in-charge rule. Misandry is rife.

Ben Jones
Ben Jones
1 year ago
Reply to  Matt M

I am trying to imagine a scenario where I actually pay money to watch Phoebe Waller-Bridge. Nope. It’s not happening. Her mission to destroy every male-led popular movie franchise continues. Eventually someone will realise hiring her is like filling a dumper truck with $100 bills and setting light to it.

Charles Stanhope
Charles Stanhope
1 year ago
Reply to  Matt M

ZULU?
Are we still allowed to watch such a stirring film?

Ben Jones
Ben Jones
1 year ago

It was on TV the other day. Members of the African nations who fought the battle provided extras. Chief Buthuleizi famously featured in several scenes. Indeed, African descendants of the battle would attend an anniversary dinner at the Royal Welsh Fusilier’s mess well into the 1980s. Anyone who thinks that film racist is wrong, it is nothing but respectful to the African combatants.

Charles Stanhope
Charles Stanhope
1 year ago
Reply to  Ben Jones

Thank you.
Are you sure about the Royal Welsh Fusiliers?
In 1879 the Regiment concerned was the 24th (2nd Warwickshire) Regiment of Foot.
Two years later, under the Childers Reforms it became the South Wales Borderers.

Ben Jones
Ben Jones
1 year ago

There have been so many amalgamations, it ended up as RWF or RRW

Jonathan Andrews
Jonathan Andrews
1 year ago

Ah but only the singing of welshmen could match the singing of the Zulu warriors.

“They’ve got marvellous basses but no top tenors”

I shall be singing Men of Harlech in the shower

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago

I love you Charles Stanhope. keep on truckin’!

Ben Jones
Ben Jones
1 year ago

There have been so many amalgamations, it ended up as RWF or RRW

Jonathan Andrews
Jonathan Andrews
1 year ago

Ah but only the singing of welshmen could match the singing of the Zulu warriors.

“They’ve got marvellous basses but no top tenors”

I shall be singing Men of Harlech in the shower

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago

I love you Charles Stanhope. keep on truckin’!

Charles Stanhope
Charles Stanhope
1 year ago
Reply to  Ben Jones

Thank you.
Are you sure about the Royal Welsh Fusiliers?
In 1879 the Regiment concerned was the 24th (2nd Warwickshire) Regiment of Foot.
Two years later, under the Childers Reforms it became the South Wales Borderers.

Matt M
Matt M
1 year ago

It should be part of the National Curriculum.

Mark Phillips
Mark Phillips
1 year ago

As an ex Royal Engineer; try to stop us. Chard VC being RE. Must have training film.

Helen Nevitt
Helen Nevitt
1 year ago

I watched it a few weeks ago and it was great and I’m a girl.

Caty Gonzales
Caty Gonzales
1 year ago
Reply to  Helen Nevitt

It is one of my mum’s favorite movies. For the record, she is also female.

AJ Mac
AJ Mac
1 year ago
Reply to  Caty Gonzales

Big laugh when you stipulated, for the record, your mother’s sex category.

AJ Mac
AJ Mac
1 year ago
Reply to  Caty Gonzales

Big laugh when you stipulated, for the record, your mother’s sex category.

Matt M
Matt M
1 year ago
Reply to  Helen Nevitt

As I said:

the odd woman likes Zulu

It seems there are a lot of odd women over here at UnHerd 😉

Last edited 1 year ago by Matt M
Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  Matt M

You betcha!!

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  Matt M

You betcha!!

Peter Johnson
Peter Johnson
1 year ago
Reply to  Helen Nevitt

Helen – clearly you must be trans. Speak with your physician for some gender affirming care.

Caty Gonzales
Caty Gonzales
1 year ago
Reply to  Helen Nevitt

It is one of my mum’s favorite movies. For the record, she is also female.

Matt M
Matt M
1 year ago
Reply to  Helen Nevitt

As I said:

the odd woman likes Zulu

It seems there are a lot of odd women over here at UnHerd 😉

Last edited 1 year ago by Matt M
Peter Johnson
Peter Johnson
1 year ago
Reply to  Helen Nevitt

Helen – clearly you must be trans. Speak with your physician for some gender affirming care.

Ben Jones
Ben Jones
1 year ago

It was on TV the other day. Members of the African nations who fought the battle provided extras. Chief Buthuleizi famously featured in several scenes. Indeed, African descendants of the battle would attend an anniversary dinner at the Royal Welsh Fusilier’s mess well into the 1980s. Anyone who thinks that film racist is wrong, it is nothing but respectful to the African combatants.

Matt M
Matt M
1 year ago

It should be part of the National Curriculum.

Mark Phillips
Mark Phillips
1 year ago

As an ex Royal Engineer; try to stop us. Chard VC being RE. Must have training film.

Helen Nevitt
Helen Nevitt
1 year ago

I watched it a few weeks ago and it was great and I’m a girl.

Laura Creighton
Laura Creighton
1 year ago
Reply to  Matt M

Except that *Buffy the Vampire Slayer* and *Xena the Warrior Princess* _were_ very popular with girls. Buffy was popular with boys, too — I am not sure about Xena. Maybe bad movies are just bad movies?

Last edited 1 year ago by Laura Creighton
Matt M
Matt M
1 year ago

Buffy was a teen romantic drama with action sequences. Popular with girls for the Girl Power, the high school popularity struggles, the love affairs and the teenage angst and with boys for the pretty actresses.

Last edited 1 year ago by Matt M
Rob C
Rob C
1 year ago
Reply to  Matt M

And the action scenes.

AJ Mac
AJ Mac
1 year ago
Reply to  Matt M

Even so, Wonder Woman is most of a century old now–pretty popular across the sex divide. (The “babe factor” is surely part of that: the original drawings, Gal Godot–and remember Lynda Carter?) Good point about the girl boss trope and the likely audience split but, as you stated yourself, not quite an absolute?

Rob C
Rob C
1 year ago
Reply to  Matt M

And the action scenes.

AJ Mac
AJ Mac
1 year ago
Reply to  Matt M

Even so, Wonder Woman is most of a century old now–pretty popular across the sex divide. (The “babe factor” is surely part of that: the original drawings, Gal Godot–and remember Lynda Carter?) Good point about the girl boss trope and the likely audience split but, as you stated yourself, not quite an absolute?

Peter Johnson
Peter Johnson
1 year ago

Excellent point. My wife and I were both huge Buffy fans. I think it was one of the best TV series ever. Not to denigrate Buffy which is in a class of it own – I think men are happy to watch bad ass female leads when they are also very attractive. Think Sigorney Weaver in Aliens, Linda Hamilton in Terminator, Nina Jojovitch in Resident Evil. Which contradicts a comment I made above and shows the truth of the famous quote about what makes a good movie “Nobody knows anything.”

Matt M
Matt M
1 year ago

Buffy was a teen romantic drama with action sequences. Popular with girls for the Girl Power, the high school popularity struggles, the love affairs and the teenage angst and with boys for the pretty actresses.

Last edited 1 year ago by Matt M
Peter Johnson
Peter Johnson
1 year ago

Excellent point. My wife and I were both huge Buffy fans. I think it was one of the best TV series ever. Not to denigrate Buffy which is in a class of it own – I think men are happy to watch bad ass female leads when they are also very attractive. Think Sigorney Weaver in Aliens, Linda Hamilton in Terminator, Nina Jojovitch in Resident Evil. Which contradicts a comment I made above and shows the truth of the famous quote about what makes a good movie “Nobody knows anything.”

Allison Barrows
Allison Barrows
1 year ago
Reply to  Matt M

I live in Florida and you’d have to drug me and throw me in a trunk to get me anywhere near DisneyWorld. The brilliant entertainment company of my childhood has become a poisonous cultural filth factory. It has seriously damaged itself, and I hope Walt gets satisfaction.
Incidentally, “Zulu” is a top 20 film for me.

Peter Johnson
Peter Johnson
1 year ago
Reply to  Matt M

The gay rom-com that came out last was probably the apogee of this. Even men who aren’t homophobic show in studies a really strong negative unconscious physiological reaction to seeing men kissing. As you said we watch films and identify with the lead actors. So I can’t imagine women who love rom coms identifying with the male lead characters either. It is a tribute to the power of echo chambers that anyone was prepared to risk money making this.

Last edited 1 year ago by Peter Johnson
Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  Matt M

I couldn’t stand ‘Love Actually’. I detest romantic movies and even more romantic comedies and fantasy. I like psychological thrillers, movies based on true stories, true crime and documentaries and I used to love Eddie Izzard. Perhaps when you say “girls’ like romance you mean exactly that, girls not women.

Last edited 1 year ago by Clare Knight
Matt M
Matt M
1 year ago
Reply to  Clare Knight

That is what I meant Clare but I would say this male/female difference persists into adulthood. If you look at TV viewing habits, they divide quite clearly by sex. Obviously some things appeal to both sexes – psychological thrillers might be a good example. And then there are men and women with broad tastes that cross the sex divide. But we shouldn’t pretend that distinct and innate differences don’t exist, on average, between the sexes. In fact, in my opinion, we should celebrate this fact.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  Matt M

I’ll take your word for it, because I don’t know anyone who watches TV!

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  Matt M

I’ll take your word for it, because I don’t know anyone who watches TV!

Matt M
Matt M
1 year ago
Reply to  Clare Knight

That is what I meant Clare but I would say this male/female difference persists into adulthood. If you look at TV viewing habits, they divide quite clearly by sex. Obviously some things appeal to both sexes – psychological thrillers might be a good example. And then there are men and women with broad tastes that cross the sex divide. But we shouldn’t pretend that distinct and innate differences don’t exist, on average, between the sexes. In fact, in my opinion, we should celebrate this fact.

Charles Hedges
Charles Hedges
1 year ago
Reply to  Matt M

The TV series ” Wish me Luck ” was about the SOE and written from the women’s perspective. Pearl Witherington CBE was the adviser.
Pearl Witherington – Wikipedia
I find it odd that feminists never use examples of the heroism of women in WW2 as examples to young girls. Is it because they are whiners while women such as Pearl Witherington were not ?
If one wants to see an action film which depicts true courage try ” Carve her name with Pride ” about V Szabo GC of whom O Sansom GC said ” She was the greatest of us all ! Also ” Odette ” about Sansom GC. Gloria Steinem said she did not want to be like her mother. What if her mother had been Szabo GC or Samsom GC, both were mothers who left their children to fight ?

Samantha Stevens
Samantha Stevens
1 year ago
Reply to  Matt M

You have just described why my husband and I can never agree on a TV show. LOL

Jeff Butcher
Jeff Butcher
1 year ago
Reply to  Matt M

The other thing they do is make the female characters absolute girl bosses who are AMAZING at everything, with no arc of character development to make them more sympathetic and interesting – see Rey in Star Wars for instance. She’s like an insufferable head girl with a light sabre.

Ben Jones
Ben Jones
1 year ago
Reply to  Matt M

I am trying to imagine a scenario where I actually pay money to watch Phoebe Waller-Bridge. Nope. It’s not happening. Her mission to destroy every male-led popular movie franchise continues. Eventually someone will realise hiring her is like filling a dumper truck with $100 bills and setting light to it.

Charles Stanhope
Charles Stanhope
1 year ago
Reply to  Matt M

ZULU?
Are we still allowed to watch such a stirring film?

Laura Creighton
Laura Creighton
1 year ago
Reply to  Matt M

Except that *Buffy the Vampire Slayer* and *Xena the Warrior Princess* _were_ very popular with girls. Buffy was popular with boys, too — I am not sure about Xena. Maybe bad movies are just bad movies?

Last edited 1 year ago by Laura Creighton
Allison Barrows
Allison Barrows
1 year ago
Reply to  Matt M

I live in Florida and you’d have to drug me and throw me in a trunk to get me anywhere near DisneyWorld. The brilliant entertainment company of my childhood has become a poisonous cultural filth factory. It has seriously damaged itself, and I hope Walt gets satisfaction.
Incidentally, “Zulu” is a top 20 film for me.

Peter Johnson
Peter Johnson
1 year ago
Reply to  Matt M

The gay rom-com that came out last was probably the apogee of this. Even men who aren’t homophobic show in studies a really strong negative unconscious physiological reaction to seeing men kissing. As you said we watch films and identify with the lead actors. So I can’t imagine women who love rom coms identifying with the male lead characters either. It is a tribute to the power of echo chambers that anyone was prepared to risk money making this.

Last edited 1 year ago by Peter Johnson
Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  Matt M

I couldn’t stand ‘Love Actually’. I detest romantic movies and even more romantic comedies and fantasy. I like psychological thrillers, movies based on true stories, true crime and documentaries and I used to love Eddie Izzard. Perhaps when you say “girls’ like romance you mean exactly that, girls not women.

Last edited 1 year ago by Clare Knight
Charles Hedges
Charles Hedges
1 year ago
Reply to  Matt M

The TV series ” Wish me Luck ” was about the SOE and written from the women’s perspective. Pearl Witherington CBE was the adviser.
Pearl Witherington – Wikipedia
I find it odd that feminists never use examples of the heroism of women in WW2 as examples to young girls. Is it because they are whiners while women such as Pearl Witherington were not ?
If one wants to see an action film which depicts true courage try ” Carve her name with Pride ” about V Szabo GC of whom O Sansom GC said ” She was the greatest of us all ! Also ” Odette ” about Sansom GC. Gloria Steinem said she did not want to be like her mother. What if her mother had been Szabo GC or Samsom GC, both were mothers who left their children to fight ?

Samantha Stevens
Samantha Stevens
1 year ago
Reply to  Matt M

You have just described why my husband and I can never agree on a TV show. LOL

Matt M
Matt M
1 year ago

On a related note, I have been amused by the recent stories about the commercial disaster that has befallen Disney. They paid a king’s ransom for LucasFilm but have only managed to release flop after box office flop.

The cause seems to be wishful thinking among their execs that there are no differences between boys and girls and so they have tried to remake Star Wars and Indiana Jones with female leads!

If it helps, these are the facts. Boys like action films, girls like romances. True the odd woman likes Zulu and the odd man likes Love Actually but they are not typical of their sex.

Fiction is essentially wish-fulfilment. You imagine yourself in the role of Bond or Superman and to make that happen for the (male) audience, it is essential that a man had the starring role.

Girls will not flock to cinemas to watch action films no matter who is the lead and boys will not do so if a woman is the lead.

The Disney team tried to bend reality to their will and may end up seriously damaging their company.

A salutary lesson: Go woke, go broke!

polidori redux
polidori redux
1 year ago

“Sometimes, talking about your feelings makes them worse,”
As often as not, one’s feelings are best kept to oneself.

RM Parker
RM Parker
1 year ago
Reply to  polidori redux

Quite. One might liken feelings to backsides: we all have them but it’s better not to air them in public.

Andrew Fisher
Andrew Fisher
1 year ago
Reply to  polidori redux

People differ quite a bit on this measure I find (as they do of course in many respects). I’m a gay man, and I do tend to offload onto my partner! I find this helpful; whether he’s always quite so keen is another matter!.

I very much take after my mother in this, as did my sister, while my (very loving) father was much less talkative – and my brother took after him.

Perhaps those are simply feminine and masculine traits, but despite quite a lot of camping it up among gay men, they are men and not women.

Frank McCusker
Frank McCusker
1 year ago
Reply to  polidori redux

Exactly, and I think the shift away from this is generational. See my short blog on this, including some sensible words from the late Prince Philip:
https://ayenaw.com/2023/01/12/pour-vivre-heureux-vivons-caches/

ANON ANON
ANON ANON
1 year ago
Reply to  Frank McCusker

Really enjoyed your blog, Frank: concise and witty! Thanks for the link.

Jeremy Bray
Jeremy Bray
1 year ago
Reply to  Frank McCusker

Excellent blog article. I shall remember it when I read one of your comments I disagree with. You really won’t be interested in my response.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  Frank McCusker

Yeah, well he was an alpha male.and had no time for other people’s feelings. We’re all different. There are feeling types, thinking types and gut types. Head, heart and body.Check out the Enneagram of personality it’s enightening.

Charles Hedges
Charles Hedges
1 year ago
Reply to  Clare Knight

If a man is in a fight protecting a woman, the last thing she needs is a man who is concerned about his feelings; she needs a man who is indifferent to pain and fear.
Fortitude, the strength of mind to endure pain or adversity with courage.
The most galling thing to an attacker is to hit a man with all his strength and the other man to laugh at his feebleness. ” My Grandmother hit me harder and she was only 5 ft one” . As “Jesus said turn the other cheek”.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  Charles Hedges

I don’t know about being protected by a man, I’ve always had to fight my own battles.

Charles Hedges
Charles Hedges
1 year ago
Reply to  Clare Knight

I am talking about a physical assault.

Charles Hedges
Charles Hedges
1 year ago
Reply to  Clare Knight

I am talking about a physical assault.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  Charles Hedges

I don’t know about being protected by a man, I’ve always had to fight my own battles.

Charles Hedges
Charles Hedges
1 year ago
Reply to  Clare Knight

If a man is in a fight protecting a woman, the last thing she needs is a man who is concerned about his feelings; she needs a man who is indifferent to pain and fear.
Fortitude, the strength of mind to endure pain or adversity with courage.
The most galling thing to an attacker is to hit a man with all his strength and the other man to laugh at his feebleness. ” My Grandmother hit me harder and she was only 5 ft one” . As “Jesus said turn the other cheek”.

ANON ANON
ANON ANON
1 year ago
Reply to  Frank McCusker

Really enjoyed your blog, Frank: concise and witty! Thanks for the link.

Jeremy Bray
Jeremy Bray
1 year ago
Reply to  Frank McCusker

Excellent blog article. I shall remember it when I read one of your comments I disagree with. You really won’t be interested in my response.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  Frank McCusker

Yeah, well he was an alpha male.and had no time for other people’s feelings. We’re all different. There are feeling types, thinking types and gut types. Head, heart and body.Check out the Enneagram of personality it’s enightening.

R S Foster
R S Foster
1 year ago
Reply to  polidori redux

…not least, because in many cases people share them in order to make themselves feel better…at the cost of making the other person feel worse! Essentially, selfish rather than “caring”…

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  polidori redux

Unless you’re in an intimate relationship or with a best friend.

RM Parker
RM Parker
1 year ago
Reply to  polidori redux

Quite. One might liken feelings to backsides: we all have them but it’s better not to air them in public.

Andrew Fisher
Andrew Fisher
1 year ago
Reply to  polidori redux

People differ quite a bit on this measure I find (as they do of course in many respects). I’m a gay man, and I do tend to offload onto my partner! I find this helpful; whether he’s always quite so keen is another matter!.

I very much take after my mother in this, as did my sister, while my (very loving) father was much less talkative – and my brother took after him.

Perhaps those are simply feminine and masculine traits, but despite quite a lot of camping it up among gay men, they are men and not women.

Frank McCusker
Frank McCusker
1 year ago
Reply to  polidori redux

Exactly, and I think the shift away from this is generational. See my short blog on this, including some sensible words from the late Prince Philip:
https://ayenaw.com/2023/01/12/pour-vivre-heureux-vivons-caches/

R S Foster
R S Foster
1 year ago
Reply to  polidori redux

…not least, because in many cases people share them in order to make themselves feel better…at the cost of making the other person feel worse! Essentially, selfish rather than “caring”…

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  polidori redux

Unless you’re in an intimate relationship or with a best friend.

polidori redux
polidori redux
1 year ago

“Sometimes, talking about your feelings makes them worse,”
As often as not, one’s feelings are best kept to oneself.

Katharine Eyre
Katharine Eyre
1 year ago

Realising I’d gone right off Caitlin Moran was one of the sadder moments of my reading career I think. I read “How To Be a Woman” twice and absolutely loved it. It was funny, irreverent, the right amount of ribald and – in places – incredibly touching. It’s still on my shelf.
I don’t know quite what happened in the meantime. Maybe I matured a bit and realised that middle-aged women who still need to continually provoke with bawdy language are actually a bit sad. Even though British women of my generation and older probably did need a bit of a shove out of lingering British prudishness about our bodies…still relying on the “vag-fart”-schtick is so tiresome. Women don’t need to “rejoice in their minges” to be empowered: it is quite sufficient for us to be on friendly enough terms with them that you can have a good time and keep everything “down there” tickety-boo from a health point of view. (To any ladies reading this: don’t be shy, go and get your smear test done.)
I also find Moran a lazy writer – and the signs of that were right there in “How To Be A Woman” when she recounts tales of her sozzled 90s lifestyle and dashing off pieces 5 minutes before the submission deadline. Fine, it was a good story – but if you fail to evolve beyond that, then you become tired and predictable.
Was in a 2nd hand bookshop last week and was briefly excited when I saw a copy of Moran’s novel “How To Build a Girl”. But then I saw an Ian McEwan and thought: “Yes, that’s where the quality is”. And bought that instead.

Last edited 1 year ago by Katharine Eyre
Charles Hedges
Charles Hedges
1 year ago
Reply to  Katharine Eyre

Why is it that Moran has more attention than K Adie who covered N Ireland, 1990 Gulf War and Jugoslavia? In Adie’s autobiography there is a photograph of French Naval surgeon fishing for bullets and shrapnel bits in Adie’s ankle.
Why is it left wing metropolitan women never celebrate the acheivements of women such as Golda Meir, Margaret Thatcher or K Adie ?

Charles Hedges
Charles Hedges
1 year ago
Reply to  Katharine Eyre

Why is it that Moran has more attention than K Adie who covered N Ireland, 1990 Gulf War and Jugoslavia? In Adie’s autobiography there is a photograph of French Naval surgeon fishing for bullets and shrapnel bits in Adie’s ankle.
Why is it left wing metropolitan women never celebrate the acheivements of women such as Golda Meir, Margaret Thatcher or K Adie ?

Katharine Eyre
Katharine Eyre
1 year ago

Realising I’d gone right off Caitlin Moran was one of the sadder moments of my reading career I think. I read “How To Be a Woman” twice and absolutely loved it. It was funny, irreverent, the right amount of ribald and – in places – incredibly touching. It’s still on my shelf.
I don’t know quite what happened in the meantime. Maybe I matured a bit and realised that middle-aged women who still need to continually provoke with bawdy language are actually a bit sad. Even though British women of my generation and older probably did need a bit of a shove out of lingering British prudishness about our bodies…still relying on the “vag-fart”-schtick is so tiresome. Women don’t need to “rejoice in their minges” to be empowered: it is quite sufficient for us to be on friendly enough terms with them that you can have a good time and keep everything “down there” tickety-boo from a health point of view. (To any ladies reading this: don’t be shy, go and get your smear test done.)
I also find Moran a lazy writer – and the signs of that were right there in “How To Be A Woman” when she recounts tales of her sozzled 90s lifestyle and dashing off pieces 5 minutes before the submission deadline. Fine, it was a good story – but if you fail to evolve beyond that, then you become tired and predictable.
Was in a 2nd hand bookshop last week and was briefly excited when I saw a copy of Moran’s novel “How To Build a Girl”. But then I saw an Ian McEwan and thought: “Yes, that’s where the quality is”. And bought that instead.

Last edited 1 year ago by Katharine Eyre
Peter D
Peter D
1 year ago

As always with Kathleen Stock, impressed. Keep it up

Peter D
Peter D
1 year ago

As always with Kathleen Stock, impressed. Keep it up

Anthony L
Anthony L
1 year ago

Moran recounts how she once spent a whole afternoon, stoned, talking to her husband’s testicles and “seeing how they reacted to my varying chats”.

If that’s the poor, undignified sap she’s married to, no wonder she’s got a low opinion of men in general.

Last edited 1 year ago by Anthony L
RM Parker
RM Parker
1 year ago
Reply to  Anthony L

Quite agree – and the mental image is one I’m sure we could all have more happily lived without.

Charles Stanhope
Charles Stanhope
1 year ago
Reply to  Anthony L

I gather she comes from Irish ‘itinerant’ stock, normally referred to as ‘tinkers’,* so such gratuitous vulgarity is to be expected.

(*Perhaps Mr O’Mahony might advise on which is the polite usage?)

D Walsh
D Walsh
1 year ago

Traveller/Pavee

Anyway, I’m pretty sure she’s not one

Last edited 1 year ago by D Walsh
Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  D Walsh

Gypsies?

Charles Stanhope
Charles Stanhope
1 year ago
Reply to  Clare Knight

Precisely, that was the word I was looking for!

Charles Stanhope
Charles Stanhope
1 year ago
Reply to  Clare Knight

Precisely, that was the word I was looking for!

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  D Walsh

Gypsies?

D Walsh
D Walsh
1 year ago

Traveller/Pavee

Anyway, I’m pretty sure she’s not one

Last edited 1 year ago by D Walsh
RM Parker
RM Parker
1 year ago
Reply to  Anthony L

Quite agree – and the mental image is one I’m sure we could all have more happily lived without.

Charles Stanhope
Charles Stanhope
1 year ago
Reply to  Anthony L

I gather she comes from Irish ‘itinerant’ stock, normally referred to as ‘tinkers’,* so such gratuitous vulgarity is to be expected.

(*Perhaps Mr O’Mahony might advise on which is the polite usage?)

Anthony L
Anthony L
1 year ago

Moran recounts how she once spent a whole afternoon, stoned, talking to her husband’s testicles and “seeing how they reacted to my varying chats”.

If that’s the poor, undignified sap she’s married to, no wonder she’s got a low opinion of men in general.

Last edited 1 year ago by Anthony L
Kirk Susong
Kirk Susong
1 year ago

I would have no objection to a Tube sign which read “INTRUSIVE STARING OF A SEXUAL NATURE IS SEXUAL HARASSMENT AND IS NOT TOLERATED” if there were also Tube signs which read “Short skirts, tight pants, and low-cut blouses are invitations for sexual attention. If you do not want sexual attention or consider it harassing, do not dress that way.” Both sexes have a role to play in ending sexual harassment.

Andrew Wise
Andrew Wise
1 year ago
Reply to  Kirk Susong

A very Muslim approach to the problem.
Whether that’s a good thing or a bad thing I’ll pass on.

Kirk Susong
Kirk Susong
1 year ago
Reply to  Andrew Wise

Also a very Confucian and Hindu and Shinto and Jewish and Christian and on and on. I believe all religions on earth oppose murder, too! This says nothing about religion in general or about those religions in particular – but says a lot about the human condition and commonalities in human experience.
In this case, differences between how men and women approach sex are among those obvious facts of the created order visible to everyone in every time and place.
PS. The really funny thing about that Tube sign is that it acknowledges that you can know why a person is staring at you. Is it because of the wart on your nose? The terrible burn mark on you cheek? Or perhaps the low-cut blouse you chose to put on this morning? It’s rude to stare at a person with a burn mark because they never wished to draw attention to themselves; on the other hand, the party-goers in sexy dress just want the attention of some men, not others.

Last edited 1 year ago by Kirk Susong
AC Harper
AC Harper
1 year ago
Reply to  Kirk Susong

It’s worse than that. Sometimes a woman dresses to impress (establish their status over) other women, completely disregarding the effect on men.
Although (young) men often behave poorly to impress other men, completely disregarding the effect on women.

AC Harper
AC Harper
1 year ago
Reply to  Kirk Susong

It’s worse than that. Sometimes a woman dresses to impress (establish their status over) other women, completely disregarding the effect on men.
Although (young) men often behave poorly to impress other men, completely disregarding the effect on women.

Jonathan Andrews
Jonathan Andrews
1 year ago
Reply to  Andrew Wise

I worked at a school for girls, they were great. In most of the years they wore a pretty horrible brown uniform, in the sixth form they could dress as they pleased.
There was no shortage of low cut tops.

I complained to a senior colleague who took this complaint to the girls. “He shouldn’t be looking” they said.

For the record, I wasn’t (my wife then as now is pretty gorgeous) but it felt so disrespectful and, given their reaction, the chance of being accused of looking at them with lust in my heart was a handy weapon for a mean girl.

I liked working there and, in fairness, I never heard of any student being so spiteful but it was one blight.

Charles Hedges
Charles Hedges
1 year ago

My Mother who lived in France when she was seventeen pitied women who showed too much as they showed their insecurity, desperation for attention and lack of sophistication. Obviously the girl’s mother does not know a good dressmaker. If a girl is well brought up she will wear clothes which will flatter her figure, complexion and move easily, while giving off subtle hints.

Charles Hedges
Charles Hedges
1 year ago

My Mother who lived in France when she was seventeen pitied women who showed too much as they showed their insecurity, desperation for attention and lack of sophistication. Obviously the girl’s mother does not know a good dressmaker. If a girl is well brought up she will wear clothes which will flatter her figure, complexion and move easily, while giving off subtle hints.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  Andrew Wise

As a straight, biological female, an SBF i’m sick of seeing big boobs.

Kirk Susong
Kirk Susong
1 year ago
Reply to  Andrew Wise

Also a very Confucian and Hindu and Shinto and Jewish and Christian and on and on. I believe all religions on earth oppose murder, too! This says nothing about religion in general or about those religions in particular – but says a lot about the human condition and commonalities in human experience.
In this case, differences between how men and women approach sex are among those obvious facts of the created order visible to everyone in every time and place.
PS. The really funny thing about that Tube sign is that it acknowledges that you can know why a person is staring at you. Is it because of the wart on your nose? The terrible burn mark on you cheek? Or perhaps the low-cut blouse you chose to put on this morning? It’s rude to stare at a person with a burn mark because they never wished to draw attention to themselves; on the other hand, the party-goers in sexy dress just want the attention of some men, not others.

Last edited 1 year ago by Kirk Susong
Jonathan Andrews
Jonathan Andrews
1 year ago
Reply to  Andrew Wise

I worked at a school for girls, they were great. In most of the years they wore a pretty horrible brown uniform, in the sixth form they could dress as they pleased.
There was no shortage of low cut tops.

I complained to a senior colleague who took this complaint to the girls. “He shouldn’t be looking” they said.

For the record, I wasn’t (my wife then as now is pretty gorgeous) but it felt so disrespectful and, given their reaction, the chance of being accused of looking at them with lust in my heart was a handy weapon for a mean girl.

I liked working there and, in fairness, I never heard of any student being so spiteful but it was one blight.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  Andrew Wise

As a straight, biological female, an SBF i’m sick of seeing big boobs.

Andrew Wise
Andrew Wise
1 year ago
Reply to  Kirk Susong

A very Muslim approach to the problem.
Whether that’s a good thing or a bad thing I’ll pass on.

Kirk Susong
Kirk Susong
1 year ago

I would have no objection to a Tube sign which read “INTRUSIVE STARING OF A SEXUAL NATURE IS SEXUAL HARASSMENT AND IS NOT TOLERATED” if there were also Tube signs which read “Short skirts, tight pants, and low-cut blouses are invitations for sexual attention. If you do not want sexual attention or consider it harassing, do not dress that way.” Both sexes have a role to play in ending sexual harassment.

Andrew H
Andrew H
1 year ago

Kudos to Kathleen Stock for wading through this drivel. I stopped buying The Times on Saturdays because of the vapid verbal diarrhoea of Caitlin Moran, along with the weekly self-aggrandising of the execrable Giles Coren. Forunately we are spared both in the Sunday Times. The picture above this article says it all.

Last edited 1 year ago by Andrew H
Andrew H
Andrew H
1 year ago

Kudos to Kathleen Stock for wading through this drivel. I stopped buying The Times on Saturdays because of the vapid verbal diarrhoea of Caitlin Moran, along with the weekly self-aggrandising of the execrable Giles Coren. Forunately we are spared both in the Sunday Times. The picture above this article says it all.

Last edited 1 year ago by Andrew H
Daniel P
Daniel P
1 year ago

I think most of us men have just stopped bothering to try and explain ourselves to women.

It does ZERO good. No matter what you say, most of them will have a reason to tell you why what you think, experience or feel is weird or wrong because it is not what they think, experience and feel, and then come up with all the different ways you could try to change.

UGH….

AND…INEVITABLY….when you DO open up about something, it turns into a competition, an opportunity for them to tell you how awful they have it and how often that has to do with the men in their lives, fathers, husbands, brothers, sons, whomever, if it has a d**k it has to be the source of her problems.

To be blunt….I find that MOST women are a bit neurotic. Like they are 80% normal and 20% neurotic. Just enough for you to relax and get comfortable before the shit storm with 100 mph crosswinds hits. You want to know why men are stoic and develop a knack for not talking, its cuz you have to be to weather the storm and keep your sanity. If you start talking, and God forbid try to help or offer a suggestion for whatever the freakout is that is creating the moody monster, the all you are doing is feeding the storm. Fathers do it with their wives and teenage daughters. Sons do it with their mothers and sisters. Husbands to it with wives. It is a survival mechanism.

Kirk Susong
Kirk Susong
1 year ago
Reply to  Daniel P

You are hanging about the wrong women. Plenty of wonderful women out there who understand the essential differences between men and women, and celebrate each in their sphere (and understand the implications of those differences on sexual behavior, too). But you do have to fish in the right ponds. Personally I’m surrounded by them every Sunday in the pews around me.

Jonathan Andrews
Jonathan Andrews
1 year ago
Reply to  Kirk Susong

Spot on. My wife, at least, is thoughtful and positive.

Jonathan Andrews
Jonathan Andrews
1 year ago
Reply to  Kirk Susong

Spot on. My wife, at least, is thoughtful and positive.

Richard Pearse
Richard Pearse
1 year ago
Reply to  Daniel P

Daniel – that has been my experience exactly: the emotional flush is inevitable, regardless of education, profession, income, etc. the 20% of course is an average, with some more and some less comprehensible.

Of course, we mustn’t forget the 80% (+-), but the 20% shows up, often when you least expect it (you’re right, there are no words or action to but the thumb back in the dike).

Men often blow a gasket, often about trivial things that relate to one’s sense of manliness, but it’s relatively easy to understand what the cause is in most cases. Long live the difference!

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  Daniel P

There are compulsive talkers of both sexes, however it does seem to be more so with females. It drives me nuts. It’s a narcisssistic personality disorder. One can not get a word in, it’s exhausting.. I just walk away if I can.

Kirk Susong
Kirk Susong
1 year ago
Reply to  Daniel P

You are hanging about the wrong women. Plenty of wonderful women out there who understand the essential differences between men and women, and celebrate each in their sphere (and understand the implications of those differences on sexual behavior, too). But you do have to fish in the right ponds. Personally I’m surrounded by them every Sunday in the pews around me.

Richard Pearse
Richard Pearse
1 year ago
Reply to  Daniel P

Daniel – that has been my experience exactly: the emotional flush is inevitable, regardless of education, profession, income, etc. the 20% of course is an average, with some more and some less comprehensible.

Of course, we mustn’t forget the 80% (+-), but the 20% shows up, often when you least expect it (you’re right, there are no words or action to but the thumb back in the dike).

Men often blow a gasket, often about trivial things that relate to one’s sense of manliness, but it’s relatively easy to understand what the cause is in most cases. Long live the difference!

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  Daniel P

There are compulsive talkers of both sexes, however it does seem to be more so with females. It drives me nuts. It’s a narcisssistic personality disorder. One can not get a word in, it’s exhausting.. I just walk away if I can.

Daniel P
Daniel P
1 year ago

I think most of us men have just stopped bothering to try and explain ourselves to women.

It does ZERO good. No matter what you say, most of them will have a reason to tell you why what you think, experience or feel is weird or wrong because it is not what they think, experience and feel, and then come up with all the different ways you could try to change.

UGH….

AND…INEVITABLY….when you DO open up about something, it turns into a competition, an opportunity for them to tell you how awful they have it and how often that has to do with the men in their lives, fathers, husbands, brothers, sons, whomever, if it has a d**k it has to be the source of her problems.

To be blunt….I find that MOST women are a bit neurotic. Like they are 80% normal and 20% neurotic. Just enough for you to relax and get comfortable before the shit storm with 100 mph crosswinds hits. You want to know why men are stoic and develop a knack for not talking, its cuz you have to be to weather the storm and keep your sanity. If you start talking, and God forbid try to help or offer a suggestion for whatever the freakout is that is creating the moody monster, the all you are doing is feeding the storm. Fathers do it with their wives and teenage daughters. Sons do it with their mothers and sisters. Husbands to it with wives. It is a survival mechanism.

Ben Jones
Ben Jones
1 year ago

Other titles where the subject matter has been mastered by the author include:
‘Successful Blitzkrieg’ by Vladimir Putin’Mastering Public Health’ by Matt Hancock’Impartial Jurisprudence’ by Harriet Harman’Modesty and Keeping It Real’ by Kanye West

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  Ben Jones

Kanye West wrote a book? He says he’s never read one.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  Ben Jones

Kanye West wrote a book? He says he’s never read one.

Ben Jones
Ben Jones
1 year ago

Other titles where the subject matter has been mastered by the author include:
‘Successful Blitzkrieg’ by Vladimir Putin’Mastering Public Health’ by Matt Hancock’Impartial Jurisprudence’ by Harriet Harman’Modesty and Keeping It Real’ by Kanye West