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Could you beat Elon Musk in a fight? Geeks never get over being bullied in the playground

Taylor Hill/Getty Images


July 18, 2023   5 mins

It never ends well when the geek humiliates the jock in high-school films. One minute the bespectacled boy is running rings round the football star in algebra class; the next, they’re in the playground, and the smart kid is getting punched in the face.

This reflects a profound anxiety among boys, that no matter how intellectually superior you are, physical defeat trumps everything. Even the ever-triumphant protagonists of the Revenge of the Nerds film franchise never manage to shake a sense of profound inadequacy, regardless of how many bullies they “school” by other means. And the anxiety of a boy can be formative as he grows into a man.

In the world of internet celebrities and tech tycoons, a trend has been picking up steam over the past few years: high-profile figures from the digital realm have been donning boxing gloves and stepping into the ring, to square off in physical matches. This isn’t the scripted amateur wrestling of the past, as in WrestleMania’s “Battle of the Billionaires”. These are real, bare-knuckle brawls with genuine stakes.

These “creator clashes”, as they’ve come to be known, rake in millions of viewers and generate substantial revenue for the participants. They’ve even served to revitalise the careers of D-list celebrities whose stars had begun to dim — or been snuffed out by cancellation — such as Epic Meal Time host Harley Morenstein and controversial comedian Sam Hyde. But why would men in need of neither revenue nor a reputational boost engage in such an activity? Why are Elon Musk and Mark Zuckerberg, men whose combined worth is over $300 billion, hinting at an upcoming cage fight?

These creator clashes are just the latest chapter in a long tradition of intellectuals seeking to prove themselves physically. Norman Mailer, for instance, wasn’t just a literary giant; he was also known for his penchant for physical altercations. And his two instincts, of the writer and the fighter, often collided. Mailer’s book, The Fight, centres on the legendary “Rumble in the Jungle” between Muhammad Ali and George Foreman. Not content to be an impartial observer, Mailer implicated himself in the narrative, showcasing his gritty, tough-guy literary persona as both participant and spectator.

The bookish Mailer graduated from Harvard at the age of 20, the archetypal “geek”; yet he worked towards proving that intellectual prowess and physical strength aren’t mutually exclusive. Another Harvard man, George Plimpton’s project was similar. His book, Shadow Box, recounts his experience training and then sparring with light heavyweight champion Archie Moore. In elite circles, Plimpton’s Ivy League pedigree and physical delicacy might have been celebrated, but in a wider society that equates masculinity with physical strength and courage, his was suspect. Through his participation in boxing, his manhood was validated — even though Moore thrashed him.

Political leaders, too, also prefer to appear strong rather than nerdy, even though an analytical mind is more useful in running a country. Barack Obama never missed an opportunity to show off on a basketball court. And RFK Jr has recently made a lot of headlines by bench-pressing. But the best American example is undoubtedly Theodore Roosevelt, a prolific author who was also renowned for his love of boxing, wrestling, horse riding and judo. He extolled the virtues of “the man in the arena” — one who actively challenges himself — and a “strenuous life“; in pursuit of one, he was actually blinded in one eye, during a boxing match with Colonel Daniel Moore, his military aide.

The injury became part of his public persona, a testament to his unwavering dedication to his ideals. As did his response to an assassination attempt on the campaign trail in 1912: after he was shot in the chest, he waved away concerned aides and gave a scheduled speech. But it was actually his textbook knowledge of anatomy, rather than his courage, that convinced him to go on: he knew that if he wasn’t coughing up blood, the wound didn’t need urgent attention. His mind was, in a crisis, more valuable than his courage. It was this that allowed him to present himself as not simply brain or brawn, but a thorough amalgamation of both.

At its heart, the trend of creator clashes might just be the same, age-old attempt to reach for this masculine ideal, but with a modern twist: as we increasingly live our lives in the digital realm, becoming more and more disembodied, there is something subversive about proving ourselves to be physically powerful. It’s also fused with the imperative to create and maintain a personal brand online that can be ranked in terms of followers, retweets — or victories in the ring.

The concept of getting famous people to beat each other up took off in 2002 with Celebrity Boxing. The two-episode Fox series attracted millions of viewers, despite the backlash against its exploitative nature. (One match featured the legendary basketball player Manute Bol, whose 7’7″ height and deteriorating health raised ethical questions.) Still, celebrity boxing remained a spectacle, occasionally resurfacing in various forms.

Earlier iterations of celebrity boxing often leaned towards the sensational (boxer versus wrestler!), and the absurd (watch physically unwell men like the giant Bol and obese former American footballer William “Refrigerator” Perry flail about in the ring!). But the advent of digital media has introduced a new dynamic. When influencers, entrepreneurs and digital celebrities face each other now, they are engaged in something more than physical contests with a small television audience. Social media platforms allow these events to be staged, promoted and consumed in real time, on a global scale; they have become major vehicles for personal and brand promotion, strategic tools for audience engagement.

A case in point is the boxing forays of YouTube personalities Logan and Jake Paul, influencer-turned-boxers whose fights are part spectacle, part marketing strategy. The build-up often involves an array of promotional activities — including viral videos and social media sparring — that riles up digital audiences. The payoff comes in the form of millions of viewers worldwide, heightened brand visibility and increased follower engagement, all of which can lead to substantial revenue streams.

Hence the hype about an impending clash between Musk and Zuckerberg, which suggests a future where the convergence of physical sports and digital personas becomes increasingly commonplace. Few tech bros are happy with their level of visibility, just as few nerds feel secure in their physicality. Some digital elites, such as Jeff Bezos, have invested heavily in developing impressive bodies.

However, this trend is not solely about transforming from the bullied “geek” into the well-respected “jock”. It’s also about embracing the spectacle. The internet age has taught us that visibility equates to power, and what better way to grab the spotlight than to step into a boxing ring? It’s an audacious move. But there’s another, more nuanced dimension to this phenomenon. In the digital age, the lines between “geek” and “jock”, between intellectual and physical, are blurring. With the rise of online entrepreneurs, success no longer fits into neat categories.

Today’s digital elites have access to the best drugs and trainers needed to succeed both intellectually and physically. They can be someone who can code a groundbreaking app, run a billion-dollar company and throw a knockout punch. Someone, in other words, who is simply better than you, the mere spectator and consumer of content, in every conceivable way. Someone superhuman.

So, as the spectacle of celebrity boxing goes mainstream, we’re not just watching a fight; we’re witnessing a cultural transformation. Society that is increasingly recognising the multi-dimensionality of success and power: money really can buy everything. Capital, rather than hard work, can fuse the geek and a jock. The boxing ring has become a stage for the reinvention not only of masculinity, but of the limits of humanity itself.


Oliver Bateman is a historian and journalist based in Pittsburgh. He blogs, vlogs, and podcasts at his Substack, Oliver Bateman Does the Work

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Lesley van Reenen
Lesley van Reenen
1 year ago

Musk is a lot older than Zuckerberg so I think it would be a stupid decision for him. Plus we need Musks’s mind. Suckerberg not so much.

Jim C
Jim C
1 year ago

Yes, and although Zuck has been training fairly intensively in MMA I believe, Musk is quite a bit larger than him, and there’s a reason there are weight classes in martial arts.
Could be an interesting spectacle if it ever happens (which I doubt).

Jim C
Jim C
1 year ago

Yes, and although Zuck has been training fairly intensively in MMA I believe, Musk is quite a bit larger than him, and there’s a reason there are weight classes in martial arts.
Could be an interesting spectacle if it ever happens (which I doubt).

Lesley van Reenen
Lesley van Reenen
1 year ago

Musk is a lot older than Zuckerberg so I think it would be a stupid decision for him. Plus we need Musks’s mind. Suckerberg not so much.

Ian McKinney
Ian McKinney
1 year ago

Isn’t it just the same as the move towards tanned skin being attractive when foreign travel was the preserve of the rich?

Proper training is something only an athlete or a very wealthy person has the time to do.

This is just another status signal.

Ian McKinney
Ian McKinney
1 year ago

Isn’t it just the same as the move towards tanned skin being attractive when foreign travel was the preserve of the rich?

Proper training is something only an athlete or a very wealthy person has the time to do.

This is just another status signal.

Mark HumanMode
Mark HumanMode
1 year ago

You’ve missed a very important but related dimension true across many Western men in their late 30s/40s, particularly white collar knowledge workers; the search for purpose and manhood they fear has shriveled sat in front of a computer. It happened to me. Boxing / Fighting – real boxing – not city gym pretence – reconnects you with guys and cultures you may not have connected with for a long time. There’s nothing to compare with the excitement of the first time you’re punched in the face, and then, inevitably much later, when you evade and serve it back. You know again that you’re alive and engaged with the world. I highly recommend it.

Katharine Eyre
Katharine Eyre
1 year ago
Reply to  Mark HumanMode

I feel the same about bouldering. Nothing like hanging off a wall by two fingers without any harness to focus the mind and feel the rush of life in your veins. It all feels so real, so immediate – and very human.
And you get awesome arms and shoulders too, so a win all round.

Last edited 1 year ago by Katharine Eyre
Katharine Eyre
Katharine Eyre
1 year ago
Reply to  Mark HumanMode

I feel the same about bouldering. Nothing like hanging off a wall by two fingers without any harness to focus the mind and feel the rush of life in your veins. It all feels so real, so immediate – and very human.
And you get awesome arms and shoulders too, so a win all round.

Last edited 1 year ago by Katharine Eyre
Mark HumanMode
Mark HumanMode
1 year ago

You’ve missed a very important but related dimension true across many Western men in their late 30s/40s, particularly white collar knowledge workers; the search for purpose and manhood they fear has shriveled sat in front of a computer. It happened to me. Boxing / Fighting – real boxing – not city gym pretence – reconnects you with guys and cultures you may not have connected with for a long time. There’s nothing to compare with the excitement of the first time you’re punched in the face, and then, inevitably much later, when you evade and serve it back. You know again that you’re alive and engaged with the world. I highly recommend it.

Steve Murray
Steve Murray
1 year ago

“…high-profile figures from the digital realm have been donning boxing gloves and stepping into the ring, to square off in physical matches. This isn’t the scripted amateur wrestling of the past, as in WrestleMania’s “Battle of the Billionaires”. These are real, bare-knuckle brawls…”

Bare-knuckle brawls with boxing gloves? Or just hype that allows the author to miss this contradiction? Some interesting points are being made about masculinity, but it also made me wonder how female tech entrepreneurs are meant to engage in this farce. Or maybe that’s also the point.

Disclaimer: this comment was made without the permission of N Satori, for which i profoundly apologise.

Steve Murray
Steve Murray
1 year ago

“…high-profile figures from the digital realm have been donning boxing gloves and stepping into the ring, to square off in physical matches. This isn’t the scripted amateur wrestling of the past, as in WrestleMania’s “Battle of the Billionaires”. These are real, bare-knuckle brawls…”

Bare-knuckle brawls with boxing gloves? Or just hype that allows the author to miss this contradiction? Some interesting points are being made about masculinity, but it also made me wonder how female tech entrepreneurs are meant to engage in this farce. Or maybe that’s also the point.

Disclaimer: this comment was made without the permission of N Satori, for which i profoundly apologise.

Charles Hedges
Charles Hedges
1 year ago

Boxing was part of the British boys education until 1965 when a woman Labour MP had it removed from state schools.
A Bryant ” Search for Justice ” p6, para 3 ” Boxing was the nursery manliness. A gentleman was expected to be proper man with fists and know to clear a lane of men with his morleys”. In the early 19 th century a gentleman was taught to fight bare knuckle ( included throws), fight with cudgels and swords, shoot and ride to hounds.
p7 ” within the framework of law and property the English rule was that a man should look after himself and have the freedom to do so. ”
Pre WW2 boys would have boxed, played rugby, cricket,various racket sports, swum in cold water and rowed if school was on a river. Wilfred Thesiger DSO won four blues for boxing at Oxford, Paddy Blair Mayne DSO and 3 bars was heavy weight boxer and rugby player.
American writers appear to have problem apprehending that a person may be academically bright and physically tough; why?
What concerns me about this type of article is that it it does not explain the difference between a well regulated boxing match where people wear gloves and a street fight.

Charles Hedges
Charles Hedges
1 year ago

Boxing was part of the British boys education until 1965 when a woman Labour MP had it removed from state schools.
A Bryant ” Search for Justice ” p6, para 3 ” Boxing was the nursery manliness. A gentleman was expected to be proper man with fists and know to clear a lane of men with his morleys”. In the early 19 th century a gentleman was taught to fight bare knuckle ( included throws), fight with cudgels and swords, shoot and ride to hounds.
p7 ” within the framework of law and property the English rule was that a man should look after himself and have the freedom to do so. ”
Pre WW2 boys would have boxed, played rugby, cricket,various racket sports, swum in cold water and rowed if school was on a river. Wilfred Thesiger DSO won four blues for boxing at Oxford, Paddy Blair Mayne DSO and 3 bars was heavy weight boxer and rugby player.
American writers appear to have problem apprehending that a person may be academically bright and physically tough; why?
What concerns me about this type of article is that it it does not explain the difference between a well regulated boxing match where people wear gloves and a street fight.

Katharine Eyre
Katharine Eyre
1 year ago

I’m sorry, I didn’t read the article. I am just here to say that this Zuckerberg vs. Musk stunt is the saddest and stupidest thing to have been burped out of our fast-declining Western civilisation for a long, long time. And it summarises that decline perfectly.
Two middle-aged white male megageeks who should know better slugging it out over whose social media pltform is best – which is really just a metaphor for a battle over whose ego is biggest.
God help us all.
What’s next? Boris mud-wrestling with Harriet Harman (sorry about that mental image, folks)? Prince Harry interviewing Putin about emotional neglect in childhood? Oh, wait…

Last edited 1 year ago by Katharine Eyre
Rob N
Rob N
1 year ago
Reply to  Katharine Eyre

While it does seem very odd I have to disagree. I think it is good that some of our elite still actually have some seemingly illogical humanity and might enjoy some exposure to the hard reality of life whether that be by fist or boulder.

Rob N
Rob N
1 year ago
Reply to  Katharine Eyre

While it does seem very odd I have to disagree. I think it is good that some of our elite still actually have some seemingly illogical humanity and might enjoy some exposure to the hard reality of life whether that be by fist or boulder.

Katharine Eyre
Katharine Eyre
1 year ago

I’m sorry, I didn’t read the article. I am just here to say that this Zuckerberg vs. Musk stunt is the saddest and stupidest thing to have been burped out of our fast-declining Western civilisation for a long, long time. And it summarises that decline perfectly.
Two middle-aged white male megageeks who should know better slugging it out over whose social media pltform is best – which is really just a metaphor for a battle over whose ego is biggest.
God help us all.
What’s next? Boris mud-wrestling with Harriet Harman (sorry about that mental image, folks)? Prince Harry interviewing Putin about emotional neglect in childhood? Oh, wait…

Last edited 1 year ago by Katharine Eyre
Peter Johnson
Peter Johnson
1 year ago

I would literally pay to see Musk and Zuckerberg fight. They are both geeks – but they are also both extremely competitive and motivated. It would be interesting to see whether that would translate into skill in the ring.

Steve Farrell
Steve Farrell
1 year ago
Reply to  Peter Johnson

I’d pay to see them both get their heads kicked in. Ideally by someone who knows what they’re doing.

Alan Gore
Alan Gore
1 year ago
Reply to  Peter Johnson

If it were geek vs. jock, perhaps yes. But in a disagreement between two geeks, settling it with a fistfight is just weirdly irrelevant.

Steve Farrell
Steve Farrell
1 year ago
Reply to  Peter Johnson

I’d pay to see them both get their heads kicked in. Ideally by someone who knows what they’re doing.

Alan Gore
Alan Gore
1 year ago
Reply to  Peter Johnson

If it were geek vs. jock, perhaps yes. But in a disagreement between two geeks, settling it with a fistfight is just weirdly irrelevant.

Peter Johnson
Peter Johnson
1 year ago

I would literally pay to see Musk and Zuckerberg fight. They are both geeks – but they are also both extremely competitive and motivated. It would be interesting to see whether that would translate into skill in the ring.

Nicky Samengo-Turner
Nicky Samengo-Turner
1 year ago

All that would be needed was an old hat pin to puncture his ego….

Nicky Samengo-Turner
Nicky Samengo-Turner
1 year ago

All that would be needed was an old hat pin to puncture his ego….

Bret Larson
Bret Larson
1 year ago

Any geek worth his calculator understands that technology, read brains, beats brawn, and not just in the fullness of time.
That said, I have been trying to convince the wife for 20 years that I was a jock in school. So far no success though.

Bret Larson
Bret Larson
1 year ago

Any geek worth his calculator understands that technology, read brains, beats brawn, and not just in the fullness of time.
That said, I have been trying to convince the wife for 20 years that I was a jock in school. So far no success though.

Paul M
Paul M
1 year ago

We may be overthinking things a bit. This spectacle reminds me of a lot, if not most, of the men I’m around at this point in my life. I’m seeing almost *everyone* succumb to some type of mid-life crisis. It is almost as if all of my acquaintances are following some type of late-40s insecurity cookbook: buy large, loud, very expensive truck or “muscle” car (even though there was nothing wrong with the one you just bought 2-4 years ago), start lifting heavy/popping protein and aminos and all sorts of supplements (without any consideration as to long-term health effects of any of this activity), file for a divorce. It is really sad to watch.

Paul M
Paul M
1 year ago

We may be overthinking things a bit. This spectacle reminds me of a lot, if not most, of the men I’m around at this point in my life. I’m seeing almost *everyone* succumb to some type of mid-life crisis. It is almost as if all of my acquaintances are following some type of late-40s insecurity cookbook: buy large, loud, very expensive truck or “muscle” car (even though there was nothing wrong with the one you just bought 2-4 years ago), start lifting heavy/popping protein and aminos and all sorts of supplements (without any consideration as to long-term health effects of any of this activity), file for a divorce. It is really sad to watch.

Emre S
Emre S
1 year ago

The author over-intellectualises the topic greatly and unnecessarily in my view. A physical threat is one of the most primeval things in human life. Fear and domination are some of the most fundamental things living beings experience. These billionaires, having tried most other things, are looking for ways to get new thrills. What better way than to conquer your primeval fears? Dominating a peer in a primeval domain in front of millions has to be one of the biggest thrills these men can chase. I completely understand its draw.

Michael Gibson
Michael Gibson
1 year ago

Somehow I doubt their respective insurers will allow it…