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RFK Jr and the virtue of bodybuilding




June 29, 2023   6 mins

“The most entertaining outcome (as if we were in a movie) is also the most likely,” Elon Musk declared recently. If Musk is right, then the next President of the United States must surely be swole, anti-vaccine boomer, Robert F. Kennedy Jr.

Kennedy, who is 69 years old, recently shared videos of himself lifting weights and doing press-ups shirtless. Alongside these, he pledged that should he become President, he will “restore America as the global example of health and well-being. Not through pills or syringes, but through character and self-discipline.”

The idea that physical and moral vigour go together is ancient. The first Olympic Games were held nearly three millennia ago, around 776BC, and many athletic-looking Greek statues survive to this day that vividly celebrate male physical beauty and strength as shorthand for good character.

This association persisted. In his 1855 poem “I Sing The Body Electric”, Walt Whitman celebrated human beauty as a fusion of character and embodiment, where flesh and gesture “are not the parts and poems of the body only, but of the soul”. According to Whitman, the “well-made man” expresses his character in both body and movement — all of which offers a clue as to character.

But fusing beauty and value lands differently today. The modern progressive mainstream has set itself firmly against the idea that our bodies say anything moral. Kennedy’s videos prompted a flurry of accusations that in showing off his muscular torso, he’s mired in toxic masculinity, dog-whistling body fascism and eugenics, and implicitly promoting discrimination against disabled people. And – perhaps most damningly of all for someone who promotes natural health – that he’s faking it: of using unnatural means to pump his muscles when in reality he’s old and weak.

Kennedy has not responded to the rumours about steroid use. But the argument hits a live and divisive issue on the Right: biotech. A significant chunk of his support comes from a cluster of emerging popular movements whose common theme is resistance to “unnatural” biotech innovations. He was a prominent opponent of Covid vaccine mandates, one such innovation; other issues in the same cluster include medical gender transition, and artificial meat – all of which inspire strong opposition as unacceptable incursions of technology into our nature.

So we might ask: how can Kennedy advocate health and wellbeing via character and self-discipline, and show off his ripped physique to underline the point, if he attained that physique with the help of synthetic hormones? It’s a fair question. But the collective shrug from Kennedy supporters suggests that what was gleefully pointed out as an inconsistency — an advocate of “natural” health possibly using medical tech to attain that health — is not, in fact, seen as contradictory in the slightest.

We take the opposition between tech and nature for granted today — not least because we’ve spent two centuries using tech to escape the limits of nature, and told ourselves this was a story of moral progress. This forms the backdrop — among other things — to the women’s movement, a story that wouldn’t have been possible without a host of now near-invisible technologies that underwrite women’s relative autonomy.

Beyond this, it forms the backdrop to progressivism in general. It’s not just women who now seek to escape the idea that our bodies say something about us: it’s everyone. From the disability rights movement to “body positivity”, the driving idea is that any judgement or constraint imposed by our contingent physical form should be challenged. Perhaps the logical endpoint of this challenge has been gender medicine’s all-out resistance to embodied limits, a politics that’s centrally about “pills and syringes” as liberation.

This utopian drive to break the bounds of human nature, then, began in earnest with the industrial era. As the world modernised, technology and a Protestant work ethic were applied not just to escaping our limits, but also to resisting our waning strength as physical work became less important. With the freshly-minted Land of the Free roaring from agrarian colonial backwater into industrial superpower, new anxieties proliferated about health, vitality and masculinity. In response, a “muscular Christianity” emerged which framed manly fitness as an expression of religious devotion — and whose many legacies include the still wildly popular sport of American football.

But it wasn’t just the Christians. As industrialisation made life easier and people richer and freer, so this new wealth and leisure drove an explosion in social and cultural experimentation in how to live well. In this free-for-all, a dizzying array of health entrepreneurs flourished, offering “water cures”, physiology lectures, anti-masturbation campaigns, sanatoria, and diets and lifestyles of such experimental weirdness, they make our 21st-century keto diets, NoFap forums and jade yoni eggs look positively normie.

Even Walt Whitman contributed to this emerging culture. Just three years after “I Sing The Body Electric” was published, he wrote a 13-instalment guide to Manly Health and Training in a New York newspaper, under the pseudonym “Mose Velsor”. In it, he sets out the intimate link between physical fitness, moral virtue — and also personal efficacy and performance. Training doesn’t just deliver a “perfect physique” but also helps a man “exalt the intensity of his personal force” — a transformation that will, in turn, “attract to him attention, friendship and respect”.

This mania for self-improvement tracked the wider transition in American culture, from largely agrarian to increasingly wealthy, entrepreneurial and technologically advanced. To succeed in this new era, the ambitious man had to grind. In other words, the fitness culture that emerged with modernity serves as a mirror of the machine age that spawned it: a “body electric” for the age of electrification, in which our physical forms become sites of industry-like labour and competition.

Today, we live in a biotech age, in which our flesh appears less in Whitmanesque terms — as union of body and soul — than as organs for donation; DNA for re-writing; a uterus for rent. We are raw material for the Fourth Industrial Revolution.

With this new turn has come another round of dematerialisation. Work is not just de-sexed, but virtualised. Life is sedentary. Happiness, risk-free sex, even weight management or the appearance of the opposite sex can be obtained in a pill or syringe. There’s no pressing reason to attain any level of physical fitness, except personal desire. And on top of these disintegrating forces, the dominant culture has also set itself (at least overtly) to the dissolution of physiological norms.

And just as industrial technologies spawned egalitarian challenges to our limits, and also new cults of the body beautiful, so today’s biotech age of hormone-enhanced affirmation and “inclusive” body culture has also given rise to a countervailing one, of aggressive physical beauty. One influential aspect of this backlash is a Right-wing subculture of bodybuilding, whose proponents oppose the progressive war on human nature along every possible axis. In general, adherents embrace effortful self-improvement, vitality and individual excellence, while dismissing “body positivity” and egalitarianism of every kind. Centrally, the RWBBs embrace the link expressed so controversially by Kennedy between physical health and moral worth — especially what health implies about individual effort and discipline.

Perhaps the most influential figure in this movement is the pseudonymous Bronze Age Pervert, whose Bronze Age Mindset decries egalitarianism as the attempt to abolish excellence and natural hierarchy in favour of meaningless “buglife”. His social media account abounds with “Handsome Thursday” images of honed male physiques, presented as aesthetic resistance to such levelling-down.

Unlike the 19th-century “muscular Christians”, this 21st-century fitness subculture draws inspiration more from the Hellenistic ancients, especially their sculptures of athletes. This affinity is so closely held that when a historian recently suggested ancient Greek soldiers would have been lean and tough, rather than “ripped”, he was deluged with furious anons, who accused him of self-interestedly attempting to legitimise “dad bods” and emasculation, and undermine men’s aspiration to physical beauty and strength, and — implicitly — to the superior character such beauty and strength have classically been viewed as reflecting.

But when such aspirations are located — as in the contested Greek soldiers — somewhere in the distant past, before the world modernised, what hope does anyone have of holding on to it? Critics sometimes accuse the RWBBs of clinging to a type of masculinity that has simply been rendered obsolete by changing social conditions. And maybe there’s something to that idea. Even “I Sing The Body Electric” expresses a palpable sense of loss at disappearing physical cultures: Whitman eulogises an agrarian grandfather hunting, boating and fishing with his many sons and grandsons. Hale and tan, loved by all, overwhelmingly magnetic, he’s a compelling figure – and was written in an era when that version of America was already disappearing.

Today, much as in the 19th century, we’re embroiled both in a tech-enabled war on human nature and a defence of that nature that is also tech-enabled — not least in how extremely online it is. But one upshot of this entanglement is that it might not, after all, be such a gotcha for Robert F. Kennedy Jr to be using testosterone replacement therapy to pursue the body beautiful.

Right-wing body-builders and their fellow travellers may decry the use of synthetic hormones for anti-normative ends, such as “transgender” medical interventions for children. But there’s far more ambivalence where it comes to using biotech to enhance human beauty and performance. For example, there’s no clear consensus in this community on whether using anabolic steroids is OK. And perhaps we shouldn’t be surprised if even those who criticise the use of tech to wage war on our nature might be less troubled about using tech to give nature a helping hand. After all, there’s no going back even to the 19th century, let alone the world of the hale, tanned farmers Whitman eulogises – or indeed of Greek hoplites. And, in theory at least, technology and desire can be turned to ends other than flattening every physical difference between individuals.

So perhaps this is the best we can hope for: diverting our “pills and syringes” from waging war on our nature, toward wielding them in support of human health and beauty. It’s a risky path, with many pitfalls. But with no obvious route back to a supposedly “natural” state, it may be that the only way out is through.


Mary Harrington is a contributing editor at UnHerd.

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Matt Sylvestre
Matt Sylvestre
9 months ago

I can not begin to describe the benefit moderate, natural body building has had on my life. Self discipline, self control, controlled assertiveness, health, confidence, everyday functional strength to say nothing of the benefit to my marriage. I just completed my 33rd year of serious working out. I am not a huge guy or professional level athlete by any means but the most important day of my life, apart from my wife and kids, was the day I summoned the courage to walk into a gym… If I did it, so can you…

Last edited 9 months ago by Matt Sylvestre
Richard Craven
Richard Craven
9 months ago
Reply to  Matt Sylvestre

I wouldn’t want to be a body-builder, but do very much like being a fit cruiser-weight as I enter my 7th decade. A parkrun 5k, walking everywhere, and a couple of weights sessions every week fit the bill.

Steve Murray
Steve Murray
9 months ago
Reply to  Richard Craven

I’m not a “gym” person, but very fit for my age (which is in the same life-stage as yours).

Quite simply, i walk fast, and as far and often as possible, including gradients. I do so whilst exercising my neck muscles through shaking my head in disbelief at the shuffling throngs i bypass who eschew this very simple, very easy way to maintain health and fitness, for which the human animal was designed.

Richard Craven
Richard Craven
9 months ago
Reply to  Steve Murray

My walking pace has definitely slowed down a bit, to the extent that I’m sometimes overtaken on the pavement. However, I can still do 5k in 26:30 on the gym treadmill – somewhat above the holy grail of 8 minute miles, but not unrespectable for our age.

J Mo
J Mo
9 months ago
Reply to  Steve Murray

Fast walking is a superior exercise that’s sadly neglected by most

Richard Craven
Richard Craven
9 months ago
Reply to  Steve Murray

My walking pace has definitely slowed down a bit, to the extent that I’m sometimes overtaken on the pavement. However, I can still do 5k in 26:30 on the gym treadmill – somewhat above the holy grail of 8 minute miles, but not unrespectable for our age.

J Mo
J Mo
9 months ago
Reply to  Steve Murray

Fast walking is a superior exercise that’s sadly neglected by most

Steve Murray
Steve Murray
9 months ago
Reply to  Richard Craven

I’m not a “gym” person, but very fit for my age (which is in the same life-stage as yours).

Quite simply, i walk fast, and as far and often as possible, including gradients. I do so whilst exercising my neck muscles through shaking my head in disbelief at the shuffling throngs i bypass who eschew this very simple, very easy way to maintain health and fitness, for which the human animal was designed.

Lesley van Reenen
Lesley van Reenen
9 months ago
Reply to  Matt Sylvestre

The assertion is in the piece that he took synthetic hormones. Is this true? Well if it is, he is still in better nick than 99.9% of Americans his age.

FacRecte NilTime
FacRecte NilTime
9 months ago
Reply to  Matt Sylvestre

Yes indeed. A healthy mind in a healthy body. We’ve known this since Juvenal.

Richard Craven
Richard Craven
9 months ago

I had to translate vast chunks of Juvenal at school in the 70’s.

Richard Craven
Richard Craven
9 months ago

I had to translate vast chunks of Juvenal at school in the 70’s.

Richard Craven
Richard Craven
9 months ago
Reply to  Matt Sylvestre

I wouldn’t want to be a body-builder, but do very much like being a fit cruiser-weight as I enter my 7th decade. A parkrun 5k, walking everywhere, and a couple of weights sessions every week fit the bill.

Lesley van Reenen
Lesley van Reenen
9 months ago
Reply to  Matt Sylvestre

The assertion is in the piece that he took synthetic hormones. Is this true? Well if it is, he is still in better nick than 99.9% of Americans his age.

FacRecte NilTime
FacRecte NilTime
9 months ago
Reply to  Matt Sylvestre

Yes indeed. A healthy mind in a healthy body. We’ve known this since Juvenal.

Matt Sylvestre
Matt Sylvestre
9 months ago

I can not begin to describe the benefit moderate, natural body building has had on my life. Self discipline, self control, controlled assertiveness, health, confidence, everyday functional strength to say nothing of the benefit to my marriage. I just completed my 33rd year of serious working out. I am not a huge guy or professional level athlete by any means but the most important day of my life, apart from my wife and kids, was the day I summoned the courage to walk into a gym… If I did it, so can you…

Last edited 9 months ago by Matt Sylvestre
Allison Barrows
Allison Barrows
9 months ago

This is a very strange article. The enemies of Robert Kennedy in the media are claiming that his physique is the result of steroid use with absolutely no proof, asserting that men his age couldn’t possibly be that fit without “help”. My 67-year-old husband is 6’, 185, flat-stomached and ripped. You could show movies on his back. He works out with free weights every day. It’s called discipline and consistency. He’s an artist – a very sedentary profession – so he always stayed physically active playing sports, swimming, walking, and working out – no drugs needed. I guess, according to this writer, that makes him a “Right-winger” hung up on male beauty ideals. Well, lucky me, then. Better that than some skinny-fat, noodle-armed Comic-Con tech nerd claiming to be a feminist at the weekend rainbow rally. Yeeesh.

Chris Milburn
Chris Milburn
9 months ago

I didn’t take that from what Mary Harrington is saying here. What I took is that IF he is doing steroids or taking supplemental testosterone (I’m a doc, an athlete, and can say from long experience that I think it’s likely) it is a bit of a contradiction for someone who talks about not wanting to put unnatural substances into the environment or into one’s body (a point that I greatly agree with RFK on).
I would TOTALLY want him as president 1000 times more than I would want frail, crooked, demented old Joe Biden.
PS: I greatly respect the man and was interviewed by him on his podcast.

J Mo
J Mo
9 months ago

Steve Maxwell (kettle bells) is around RFK Jr’s age and also ripped. Also, let’s say RFK Jr is taking testosterone – is this meaningfully different from women taking HRT? Not exactly alien to his system is it

Richard Craven
Richard Craven
9 months ago

I’m nearly 60, 5’11” and 195 – a few pounds overweight to be honest, however I’m reasonably ‘ripped’ because of my twice/thrice weekly weights sessions, and also walk everywhere and recently started Parkrunning. My point being that you’re obviously right: RFK just looks like he’s been taking care of himself. Steroids clearly have nothing to do with it.

Chris Milburn
Chris Milburn
9 months ago

I didn’t take that from what Mary Harrington is saying here. What I took is that IF he is doing steroids or taking supplemental testosterone (I’m a doc, an athlete, and can say from long experience that I think it’s likely) it is a bit of a contradiction for someone who talks about not wanting to put unnatural substances into the environment or into one’s body (a point that I greatly agree with RFK on).
I would TOTALLY want him as president 1000 times more than I would want frail, crooked, demented old Joe Biden.
PS: I greatly respect the man and was interviewed by him on his podcast.

J Mo
J Mo
9 months ago

Steve Maxwell (kettle bells) is around RFK Jr’s age and also ripped. Also, let’s say RFK Jr is taking testosterone – is this meaningfully different from women taking HRT? Not exactly alien to his system is it

Richard Craven
Richard Craven
9 months ago

I’m nearly 60, 5’11” and 195 – a few pounds overweight to be honest, however I’m reasonably ‘ripped’ because of my twice/thrice weekly weights sessions, and also walk everywhere and recently started Parkrunning. My point being that you’re obviously right: RFK just looks like he’s been taking care of himself. Steroids clearly have nothing to do with it.

Allison Barrows
Allison Barrows
9 months ago

This is a very strange article. The enemies of Robert Kennedy in the media are claiming that his physique is the result of steroid use with absolutely no proof, asserting that men his age couldn’t possibly be that fit without “help”. My 67-year-old husband is 6’, 185, flat-stomached and ripped. You could show movies on his back. He works out with free weights every day. It’s called discipline and consistency. He’s an artist – a very sedentary profession – so he always stayed physically active playing sports, swimming, walking, and working out – no drugs needed. I guess, according to this writer, that makes him a “Right-winger” hung up on male beauty ideals. Well, lucky me, then. Better that than some skinny-fat, noodle-armed Comic-Con tech nerd claiming to be a feminist at the weekend rainbow rally. Yeeesh.

Martin Smith
Martin Smith
9 months ago

This article is predicated on ther idea that RFKjr uses steroids but there is no actual evidence of this, just the gossip of the envious. I’m not as ripped as him but I’m 70 and deadlift x2 bodyweight and do strength training 3 times a week; have done for years. Just an average guy. Better it seems if one is a metabolically sick roll of blubber with type2 diabetes, hypertension, CVD and obesity, dependent on ‘medication’ and living on a diet of highly processed foods. And why is it so outrageous to not want lab-grown meat? Or question the morality and medical probity of surgical ‘gender transition’, especially for minors. FFS

Last edited 9 months ago by Martin Smith
Martin Smith
Martin Smith
9 months ago

This article is predicated on ther idea that RFKjr uses steroids but there is no actual evidence of this, just the gossip of the envious. I’m not as ripped as him but I’m 70 and deadlift x2 bodyweight and do strength training 3 times a week; have done for years. Just an average guy. Better it seems if one is a metabolically sick roll of blubber with type2 diabetes, hypertension, CVD and obesity, dependent on ‘medication’ and living on a diet of highly processed foods. And why is it so outrageous to not want lab-grown meat? Or question the morality and medical probity of surgical ‘gender transition’, especially for minors. FFS

Last edited 9 months ago by Martin Smith
Peter Hall
Peter Hall
9 months ago

The Kennedy family have had a culture of courage, competition and physical activity for decades. The political objective of the video was to demonstrate RJK junior’s fitness (mental, moral and physical) for the Presidency and Biden and Trump’s manifest unfitness for another term. Do watch Kennedy’s Peace and Diplomacy speech given 8 days ago. It is inspiring and fascinating.

Peter Hall
Peter Hall
9 months ago

The Kennedy family have had a culture of courage, competition and physical activity for decades. The political objective of the video was to demonstrate RJK junior’s fitness (mental, moral and physical) for the Presidency and Biden and Trump’s manifest unfitness for another term. Do watch Kennedy’s Peace and Diplomacy speech given 8 days ago. It is inspiring and fascinating.

Ali W
Ali W
9 months ago

As we age, our bodies are less able to do what they used to do. Is supplementing these things in order to live longer really all that unnatural? Women going through menopause often supplement estrogen, don’t they?
I don’t know if RFK Jr. is doing any of that, and frankly I don’t really care. My issue with pharmaceuticals is that they invent problems in order to profit off the “solution”. Or worse, they conceal or stigmatize more natural, and therefore less profitable, solutions to monopolize how health issues are treated.
So many health issues stem from diet and lack of exercise, yet the medical establishment is so corrupted that they will rarely advise a patient with high cholesterol, blood pressure, etc… to make lifestyle changes before prescribing them lifelong medications that often require other medicines to manage the side effects.
I don’t think medical science is inherently evil, but I believe the industry has crossed the line from easing real suffering to viewing human suffering as a commodity from which to profit.

Cate Terwilliger
Cate Terwilliger
9 months ago
Reply to  Ali W

Very well put. It’s logical to look at “gender-affirming care” through this “invent problem, offer solution” filter, given the gobs of money to be made off lifelong hormones, not to mention surgeries (and repeats to address complications). A generation of young people is being “affirmed” into supporting Western medicine for decades …

Cate Terwilliger
Cate Terwilliger
9 months ago
Reply to  Ali W

Very well put. It’s logical to look at “gender-affirming care” through this “invent problem, offer solution” filter, given the gobs of money to be made off lifelong hormones, not to mention surgeries (and repeats to address complications). A generation of young people is being “affirmed” into supporting Western medicine for decades …

Ali W
Ali W
9 months ago

As we age, our bodies are less able to do what they used to do. Is supplementing these things in order to live longer really all that unnatural? Women going through menopause often supplement estrogen, don’t they?
I don’t know if RFK Jr. is doing any of that, and frankly I don’t really care. My issue with pharmaceuticals is that they invent problems in order to profit off the “solution”. Or worse, they conceal or stigmatize more natural, and therefore less profitable, solutions to monopolize how health issues are treated.
So many health issues stem from diet and lack of exercise, yet the medical establishment is so corrupted that they will rarely advise a patient with high cholesterol, blood pressure, etc… to make lifestyle changes before prescribing them lifelong medications that often require other medicines to manage the side effects.
I don’t think medical science is inherently evil, but I believe the industry has crossed the line from easing real suffering to viewing human suffering as a commodity from which to profit.

Prashant Kotak
Prashant Kotak
9 months ago

I Sing The Body Algorithmic.

J Bryant
J Bryant
9 months ago
Reply to  Prashant Kotak

I sense a coded message in there.

Lesley van Reenen
Lesley van Reenen
9 months ago
Reply to  J Bryant

It’s an anagram… off you go!

Prashant Kotak
Prashant Kotak
9 months ago
Reply to  J Bryant

I couldn’t say!

Last edited 9 months ago by Prashant Kotak
Lesley van Reenen
Lesley van Reenen
9 months ago
Reply to  J Bryant

It’s an anagram… off you go!

Prashant Kotak
Prashant Kotak
9 months ago
Reply to  J Bryant

I couldn’t say!

Last edited 9 months ago by Prashant Kotak
J Bryant
J Bryant
9 months ago
Reply to  Prashant Kotak

I sense a coded message in there.

Prashant Kotak
Prashant Kotak
9 months ago

I Sing The Body Algorithmic.

Anthony Roe
Anthony Roe
9 months ago

Only in America. Three men in or entering serious old age contending to be top dog. Two tech-bros wanting to engage in a cage fight. Another wants to be an astronaut. We really do live in a Marvel universe.

Charles Hedges
Charles Hedges
9 months ago
Reply to  Anthony Roe

Good points. We no longer have a ruling class who have had their mettle tempered by adversity in their teens and early twenties who passed test, they are still emotionally immature insecure boys showing off.
Dr Tiger Watson said he joined the Commandos because he wanted to know whether he would pass the test.
The Story Of The Unknown Extraordinary Commando Operation Of WW2 | Greatest Raid Of All | Timeline – YouTube
It would appear that Western Society is happy to elect politicians and have public debate influenced by people who are insecure and need to show off. Why do we allow “Influences ” to have influence?

Charles Hedges
Charles Hedges
9 months ago
Reply to  Anthony Roe

Good points. We no longer have a ruling class who have had their mettle tempered by adversity in their teens and early twenties who passed test, they are still emotionally immature insecure boys showing off.
Dr Tiger Watson said he joined the Commandos because he wanted to know whether he would pass the test.
The Story Of The Unknown Extraordinary Commando Operation Of WW2 | Greatest Raid Of All | Timeline – YouTube
It would appear that Western Society is happy to elect politicians and have public debate influenced by people who are insecure and need to show off. Why do we allow “Influences ” to have influence?

Anthony Roe
Anthony Roe
9 months ago

Only in America. Three men in or entering serious old age contending to be top dog. Two tech-bros wanting to engage in a cage fight. Another wants to be an astronaut. We really do live in a Marvel universe.

t slothrop
t slothrop
9 months ago

Mary, I would like to provide another perspective re: the continued tension of technology vs nature, or at least technology more narrowly defined as information technology.
I am reading Fred Turner’s “from Counterculture to Cyberculture” regarding the framing of technology as a societal force in the late 1960’s/early 1970’s in San Francisco – while technology would overcome constraints, these constraints were in fact already “unnatural” – constraints of organizational man, of military-first actions, of hierarchies.
Further still, technology they argued should reinforce nature by allowing smaller communities to flourish AND to interact again “more naturally,” that is, more horizontally. Turner shares that an elderly Buckminster Fuller, a ‘thought leader’ for the emerging communalists and utopians in California, believed that the future leaders would be wholistic thinkers who identified patterns in nature and developed technology in accordance with these patterns.
While we have fallen short of these aspirations, their enduring(?) insight is that not all constraints to be overcome by technology are against nature, some might be an opportunity to return to nature.

Steve Murray
Steve Murray
9 months ago
Reply to  t slothrop

Interesting… but why are you addressing “Mary”? You’re not in a personal conversation with the author, but addressing this platform as a whole.

It’s just weird when people do that.

Last edited 9 months ago by Steve Murray
t slothrop
t slothrop
9 months ago
Reply to  Steve Murray

Good question, as I wrote it instinctively, not deliberately. So to now analyze my writing in hindsight, I think it is because I was responding to Mary’s evolving arguments on technology as represented in her articles across sites and in her book, rather than responding to this particular article.
For the record, all are welcome to read my comments.

Last edited 9 months ago by t slothrop
t slothrop
t slothrop
9 months ago
Reply to  Steve Murray

Good question, as I wrote it instinctively, not deliberately. So to now analyze my writing in hindsight, I think it is because I was responding to Mary’s evolving arguments on technology as represented in her articles across sites and in her book, rather than responding to this particular article.
For the record, all are welcome to read my comments.

Last edited 9 months ago by t slothrop
Steve Murray
Steve Murray
9 months ago
Reply to  t slothrop

Interesting… but why are you addressing “Mary”? You’re not in a personal conversation with the author, but addressing this platform as a whole.

It’s just weird when people do that.

Last edited 9 months ago by Steve Murray
t slothrop
t slothrop
9 months ago

Mary, I would like to provide another perspective re: the continued tension of technology vs nature, or at least technology more narrowly defined as information technology.
I am reading Fred Turner’s “from Counterculture to Cyberculture” regarding the framing of technology as a societal force in the late 1960’s/early 1970’s in San Francisco – while technology would overcome constraints, these constraints were in fact already “unnatural” – constraints of organizational man, of military-first actions, of hierarchies.
Further still, technology they argued should reinforce nature by allowing smaller communities to flourish AND to interact again “more naturally,” that is, more horizontally. Turner shares that an elderly Buckminster Fuller, a ‘thought leader’ for the emerging communalists and utopians in California, believed that the future leaders would be wholistic thinkers who identified patterns in nature and developed technology in accordance with these patterns.
While we have fallen short of these aspirations, their enduring(?) insight is that not all constraints to be overcome by technology are against nature, some might be an opportunity to return to nature.

Jeff Butcher
Jeff Butcher
9 months ago

This putative presidential candidate may be physically fit but surely the salient points for the rest of us are psychological: is he compos mentis? Is he reasonably sane? Does he read books? Does he have a plan other than getting everyone down the gym?

Kevin Dee
Kevin Dee
9 months ago
Reply to  Jeff Butcher

Part of what the article is exploring is the link between his physical fitness and fitness to be president. I would actually think his physical fitness is very salient point as it says a lot about somebody’s character, but agree the other stuff is important as well.

Dominic A
Dominic A
9 months ago
Reply to  Kevin Dee

I believe ‘Charles Bronson’ (not the American actor) was supremely fit.

Dominic A
Dominic A
9 months ago
Reply to  Kevin Dee

I believe ‘Charles Bronson’ (not the American actor) was supremely fit.

Allison Barrows
Allison Barrows
9 months ago
Reply to  Jeff Butcher

The current president is/does none of those things.

Peter Hall
Peter Hall
9 months ago
Reply to  Jeff Butcher

Mr Butcher- the answer to all your questions is a very loud yes. Watch his Peace and Diplomacy speech and some of the interviews. He is very experienced, wise, intelligent and idealistic and has a clear programme to heal the United States and the world. Look at the primary sources rather than the biased secondary commentary.

Jeff Butcher
Jeff Butcher
9 months ago
Reply to  Peter Hall

Thanks I will

Jeff Butcher
Jeff Butcher
9 months ago
Reply to  Peter Hall

Thanks I will

stephen archer
stephen archer
9 months ago
Reply to  Jeff Butcher

The first two of those questions don’t need to be asked of the two leading candidates. We already know and it’s not positive, unfortunately. The constitution needs to be amended to exclude undesirables and those not capable of the job based on a number of criteria. I’d rather see Schwarzenegger who’s not eligible than most of the other candidates who are.

Kevin Dee
Kevin Dee
9 months ago
Reply to  Jeff Butcher

Part of what the article is exploring is the link between his physical fitness and fitness to be president. I would actually think his physical fitness is very salient point as it says a lot about somebody’s character, but agree the other stuff is important as well.

Allison Barrows
Allison Barrows
9 months ago
Reply to  Jeff Butcher

The current president is/does none of those things.

Peter Hall
Peter Hall
9 months ago
Reply to  Jeff Butcher

Mr Butcher- the answer to all your questions is a very loud yes. Watch his Peace and Diplomacy speech and some of the interviews. He is very experienced, wise, intelligent and idealistic and has a clear programme to heal the United States and the world. Look at the primary sources rather than the biased secondary commentary.

stephen archer
stephen archer
9 months ago
Reply to  Jeff Butcher

The first two of those questions don’t need to be asked of the two leading candidates. We already know and it’s not positive, unfortunately. The constitution needs to be amended to exclude undesirables and those not capable of the job based on a number of criteria. I’d rather see Schwarzenegger who’s not eligible than most of the other candidates who are.

Jeff Butcher
Jeff Butcher
9 months ago

This putative presidential candidate may be physically fit but surely the salient points for the rest of us are psychological: is he compos mentis? Is he reasonably sane? Does he read books? Does he have a plan other than getting everyone down the gym?

Prashant Kotak
Prashant Kotak
9 months ago

https://youtu.be/thSPRS4oVp4

It should come as no surprise to anyone that an extreme-right, Brexit voting, late boomer like me is a fan of the lovely Lana. I would have posted the Tropico video of this song, but no doubt the moderators would have zapped that, but you can check it out on YouTube if you like the song.

Prashant Kotak
Prashant Kotak
9 months ago

https://youtu.be/thSPRS4oVp4

It should come as no surprise to anyone that an extreme-right, Brexit voting, late boomer like me is a fan of the lovely Lana. I would have posted the Tropico video of this song, but no doubt the moderators would have zapped that, but you can check it out on YouTube if you like the song.

Mark Falcoff
Mark Falcoff
9 months ago

Yesterday I asked my personal trainer what he thought of Kennedy’s physique. He said, “Obviously, steroids.”

Mark Falcoff
Mark Falcoff
9 months ago

Yesterday I asked my personal trainer what he thought of Kennedy’s physique. He said, “Obviously, steroids.”

Ed Newman
Ed Newman
9 months ago

In 1961, President Kennedy established the President’s Council on Youth Fitness, which aimed to improve the physical fitness of American youth. The author correctly asserts, “The modern progressive mainstream has set itself firmly against the idea that our bodies say anything moral.”
In April I visited Italy for the first time and was struck by this observation: no fat people. In 11 days I only saw two overweight people and one was probably a tourist.
JFK was an advocate for health and I am certain he would be startled by our nation of couch potatoes, lacking in discipline. It is as if discipline of all kinds is a restriction that is associated with fascism instead of the virtue that it is.
Fitness isn’t necessarily about beauty, though Michelangelo’s David would have been very different were he 200 pounds overweight.
When I was a hippie, it seemed to me that everyone really was beautiful, but not in the Barbie/Ken/Hollywood way but by virtue of being human. I think back and cannot recall any obese classmates in my art or philosophy classes. To discuss obesity today is to risk “triggering”… It’s very disappointing.

Ed Newman
Ed Newman
9 months ago

In 1961, President Kennedy established the President’s Council on Youth Fitness, which aimed to improve the physical fitness of American youth. The author correctly asserts, “The modern progressive mainstream has set itself firmly against the idea that our bodies say anything moral.”
In April I visited Italy for the first time and was struck by this observation: no fat people. In 11 days I only saw two overweight people and one was probably a tourist.
JFK was an advocate for health and I am certain he would be startled by our nation of couch potatoes, lacking in discipline. It is as if discipline of all kinds is a restriction that is associated with fascism instead of the virtue that it is.
Fitness isn’t necessarily about beauty, though Michelangelo’s David would have been very different were he 200 pounds overweight.
When I was a hippie, it seemed to me that everyone really was beautiful, but not in the Barbie/Ken/Hollywood way but by virtue of being human. I think back and cannot recall any obese classmates in my art or philosophy classes. To discuss obesity today is to risk “triggering”… It’s very disappointing.

Charles Hedges
Charles Hedges
9 months ago

The Indians and Chinese have been practising exercises for thousands of years. Perhaps the most useful are the Chinese Martial arts as they improve strength, reflexes, coordination, balance, agility and enable people to move gracefully.
“Bāguázhǎng” and amazing Kung-fu techniques!【Song-Li】With various subtitles. – YouTube
Americans appear more concerned about quantity and the external appearance and less about quality, especially the inner.

Charles Hedges
Charles Hedges
9 months ago

The Indians and Chinese have been practising exercises for thousands of years. Perhaps the most useful are the Chinese Martial arts as they improve strength, reflexes, coordination, balance, agility and enable people to move gracefully.
“Bāguázhǎng” and amazing Kung-fu techniques!【Song-Li】With various subtitles. – YouTube
Americans appear more concerned about quantity and the external appearance and less about quality, especially the inner.

Andre Rego
Andre Rego
9 months ago

Hopefully you will have many other opportunities to write more interesting articles about RFK, meanwhile working out is good for you.

Andre Rego
Andre Rego
9 months ago

Hopefully you will have many other opportunities to write more interesting articles about RFK, meanwhile working out is good for you.

Marissa M
Marissa M
9 months ago

Not just right wing Christians are partaking in the new uber-health movement. The US, as the article stated, has another division: In an effort to battle current view of fat Americans, there is a rising trend of super trim and fit Americans vs. the obstinately proud obese.
And it works. I went back to lifting weights two years ago and now, turning 60, I can say I have reversed my strength limitations. Lifting a heavy carry on into the baggage compartment over my head is once again fairly effortless. Walked up 14 flights a week ago after a false fire alarm in a hotel rendered the elevator useless, in fact.
It helps. I don’t think you have to be a fanatic, but nearly every study on aging and healthy longevity includes the benefits of exercise. Common sense, get the body moving, exercise.
Getting off the god awful American processed food train is also a necessity, of course.
Having said that, RFK is a loon. But I bet he doesn’t take steroids. Bet it’s just disciplined and consistent workouts and a high protein diet.

Last edited 9 months ago by Marissa M
Marissa M
Marissa M
9 months ago

Not just right wing Christians are partaking in the new uber-health movement. The US, as the article stated, has another division: In an effort to battle current view of fat Americans, there is a rising trend of super trim and fit Americans vs. the obstinately proud obese.
And it works. I went back to lifting weights two years ago and now, turning 60, I can say I have reversed my strength limitations. Lifting a heavy carry on into the baggage compartment over my head is once again fairly effortless. Walked up 14 flights a week ago after a false fire alarm in a hotel rendered the elevator useless, in fact.
It helps. I don’t think you have to be a fanatic, but nearly every study on aging and healthy longevity includes the benefits of exercise. Common sense, get the body moving, exercise.
Getting off the god awful American processed food train is also a necessity, of course.
Having said that, RFK is a loon. But I bet he doesn’t take steroids. Bet it’s just disciplined and consistent workouts and a high protein diet.

Last edited 9 months ago by Marissa M
Rachel Carson
Rachel Carson
9 months ago

I just think it was a bit of fun. I know it got over 16 million views but I’m not sure it was his intention.

Marissa M
Marissa M
9 months ago
Reply to  Rachel Carson

I agree. I don’t think it had any real underlying message. Kennedy’s image is one of the common man and he admits to promoting that. He also realizes the importance of social media and its influence.

Marissa M
Marissa M
9 months ago
Reply to  Rachel Carson

I agree. I don’t think it had any real underlying message. Kennedy’s image is one of the common man and he admits to promoting that. He also realizes the importance of social media and its influence.

Rachel Carson
Rachel Carson
9 months ago

I just think it was a bit of fun. I know it got over 16 million views but I’m not sure it was his intention.

Nathan Ngumi
Nathan Ngumi
9 months ago

Indeed! For health reasons there is need to escape from the domestication that technology and white-collar society has enticed a large portion of the population in the West to adopt as default. Lifestyle diseases are on the rise and this is not good for society. Whether this should be done for right-wing objectives is another issue. Would there be hostility if it was the left-wing espousing it?

Nathan Ngumi
Nathan Ngumi
9 months ago

Indeed! For health reasons there is need to escape from the domestication that technology and white-collar society has enticed a large portion of the population in the West to adopt as default. Lifestyle diseases are on the rise and this is not good for society. Whether this should be done for right-wing objectives is another issue. Would there be hostility if it was the left-wing espousing it?

Jamie
Jamie
9 months ago

Please note that there is no mention of a birth control pill for men.

Cate Terwilliger
Cate Terwilliger
9 months ago

I hope RFK, Jr. does not use steroids; for me, that would express a moral inconsistency about pharma and tech. Apart from that, though, I share a larger association not between “beauty” and moral character, but fitness and moral character. As a runner, I know fitness is not always expressed in muscular bulk. But in any form, fitness does express self-discipline and self-care, increasingly uncommon traits I admire. In the United States, we are afloat in obesity and other visible forms of sedentary dis-ease, now so normalized that we routinely see plus-sized mannequins and 3X sizes of clothing for sale as well as overweight and obese people in advertising. It is not inspiring. Seeing our leaders model the opposite — a kind of moral as well as physical leanness — with its associated individual responsibility, is. (Presidents past, including JFK, encouraged fitness at all ages. Now we have a president affirming children mutilating themselves chemically and surgically, and urging parents to do the same.) We need encouragement to take ourselves in hand. As much as the “victim” narrative predominates — physical and mental sloth are somehow beyond our control — that’s simply not the case for most of us.

Jason Smith
Jason Smith
9 months ago

I don’t understand the point of this article. It points out that we are, and have been for a long time, obsessed with our appearance? Gee, thanks for that.
As for Kennedy, having sat through all three hours of his hagiographic interview by Joe Rogan, the man is an idiot. Why don’t we have double blind clinical trials for vaccines? Just think about that for 5 seconds. Vaccines are a plot to make big pharma billions (until Covid they have always been the most unprofitable and difficult area of the industry). Wireless gives you cancer. The West caused the invasion of Ukraine. He goes on and on with this lunacy. Frankly, I’d rather have Trump or Biden than the chiselled conspiracy theorist nutcase.

Rob N
Rob N
9 months ago
Reply to  Jason Smith

So why wouldn’t we have double blind clinical trials for vaccines. It is, supposedly, the ‘gold standard’ for medical drugs and so why not vaccines. There is a lot of uncertainty about whether most have any beneficial effect and loads of studies linking many to serious health issues.
Wireless gives you cancer? Of course impossible just as X-rays giving you cancer or ultrasound increasing a baby’s chance of being left handed. Just ridiculous! But that is what many studies show.
Clearly the US and the West did push Russia to the point where an invasion of Ukraine was seen as a necessary risk. There are loads of emails, phone calls showing the US not only knew this but wanted a war and to use Ukraine to weaken Russia. That does not excuse Putin’s actions but without understanding the background to Ukraine history will repeat itself.
No idea how much money vaccines make, historically, Big Pharma but bet they are not just making them because they are a good ‘world citizen’.

Jason Smith
Jason Smith
9 months ago
Reply to  Rob N

Vaccines are designed to prevent illness. Drugs are designed to cure it. If you had double blind trials for, say, an HIV vaccine, you’d have to give half the people the vaccine, half a placebo and then infect them all with HIV.
How do you think that would go down with society?

Jason Smith
Jason Smith
9 months ago
Reply to  Rob N

Vaccines are designed to prevent illness. Drugs are designed to cure it. If you had double blind trials for, say, an HIV vaccine, you’d have to give half the people the vaccine, half a placebo and then infect them all with HIV.
How do you think that would go down with society?

Rob N
Rob N
9 months ago
Reply to  Jason Smith

So why wouldn’t we have double blind clinical trials for vaccines. It is, supposedly, the ‘gold standard’ for medical drugs and so why not vaccines. There is a lot of uncertainty about whether most have any beneficial effect and loads of studies linking many to serious health issues.
Wireless gives you cancer? Of course impossible just as X-rays giving you cancer or ultrasound increasing a baby’s chance of being left handed. Just ridiculous! But that is what many studies show.
Clearly the US and the West did push Russia to the point where an invasion of Ukraine was seen as a necessary risk. There are loads of emails, phone calls showing the US not only knew this but wanted a war and to use Ukraine to weaken Russia. That does not excuse Putin’s actions but without understanding the background to Ukraine history will repeat itself.
No idea how much money vaccines make, historically, Big Pharma but bet they are not just making them because they are a good ‘world citizen’.

Jason Smith
Jason Smith
9 months ago

I don’t understand the point of this article. It points out that we are, and have been for a long time, obsessed with our appearance? Gee, thanks for that.
As for Kennedy, having sat through all three hours of his hagiographic interview by Joe Rogan, the man is an idiot. Why don’t we have double blind clinical trials for vaccines? Just think about that for 5 seconds. Vaccines are a plot to make big pharma billions (until Covid they have always been the most unprofitable and difficult area of the industry). Wireless gives you cancer. The West caused the invasion of Ukraine. He goes on and on with this lunacy. Frankly, I’d rather have Trump or Biden than the chiselled conspiracy theorist nutcase.

Nicky Samengo-Turner
Nicky Samengo-Turner
9 months ago

Seeking to look like a manual labouring tied serf is rather vulgar…

Nicky Samengo-Turner
Nicky Samengo-Turner
9 months ago

Seeking to look like a manual labouring tied serf is rather vulgar…

Robbie K
Robbie K
9 months ago

The irony of a vaccine sceptic taking body building steroids. Makes him unsuitable as a candidate on two counts right there.

Richard Craven
Richard Craven
9 months ago
Reply to  Robbie K

What makes you think he takes steroids?

Robbie K
Robbie K
9 months ago
Reply to  Richard Craven

Did you not read the article?

Martin Smith
Martin Smith
9 months ago
Reply to  Robbie K

Yes, it presents no evidence, just the supposition of his envious haters.

Robbie K
Robbie K
9 months ago
Reply to  Martin Smith

Something tells me Mary Harrington isn’t envious.

Martin Smith
Martin Smith
9 months ago
Reply to  Robbie K

She’s reporting the suppositions of others who may well be envious and you are a very diligent troll.

Robbie K
Robbie K
9 months ago
Reply to  Martin Smith

Thank you.

Martin Smith
Martin Smith
9 months ago
Reply to  Robbie K

An up tick…

Last edited 9 months ago by Martin Smith
Martin Smith
Martin Smith
9 months ago
Reply to  Robbie K

An up tick…

Last edited 9 months ago by Martin Smith
Robbie K
Robbie K
9 months ago
Reply to  Martin Smith

Thank you.

Martin Smith
Martin Smith
9 months ago
Reply to  Robbie K

She’s reporting the suppositions of others who may well be envious and you are a very diligent troll.

Robbie K
Robbie K
9 months ago
Reply to  Martin Smith

Something tells me Mary Harrington isn’t envious.

Richard Craven
Richard Craven
9 months ago
Reply to  Robbie K

The article didn’t make me think he takes steroids. Why did it make you think he does?

Martin Smith
Martin Smith
9 months ago
Reply to  Robbie K

Yes, it presents no evidence, just the supposition of his envious haters.

Richard Craven
Richard Craven
9 months ago
Reply to  Robbie K

The article didn’t make me think he takes steroids. Why did it make you think he does?

Robbie K
Robbie K
9 months ago
Reply to  Richard Craven

Did you not read the article?

Richard Craven
Richard Craven
9 months ago
Reply to  Robbie K

What makes you think he takes steroids?

Robbie K
Robbie K
9 months ago

The irony of a vaccine sceptic taking body building steroids. Makes him unsuitable as a candidate on two counts right there.

polidori redux
polidori redux
9 months ago

“Kennedy, who is 69 years old, recently shared videos of himself lifting weights and doing press-ups shirtless.”
Nobody looks good naked at 69, even to another 69 year old. Cut the gym membership and spend the money on a good tailor.

Last edited 9 months ago by polidori redux
Richard Craven
Richard Craven
9 months ago
Reply to  polidori redux

I have to say he does look pretty good actually.

Lesley van Reenen
Lesley van Reenen
9 months ago
Reply to  polidori redux

He looks mighty fine to me.

polidori redux
polidori redux
9 months ago

Beer glasses.

Richard Craven
Richard Craven
9 months ago
Reply to  polidori redux

Haha! Perfectly sober, your Honour.

Richard Craven
Richard Craven
9 months ago
Reply to  polidori redux

Haha! Perfectly sober, your Honour.

polidori redux
polidori redux
9 months ago

Beer glasses.

Ali W
Ali W
9 months ago
Reply to  polidori redux

I’m not sure about voting for him, but I do respect his commitment to his health. I think he looks pretty good. I’m still in my 30s, but I would be very pleased if my significant other looks that good when he’s in his 60s.

Last edited 9 months ago by Ali W
Lesley van Reenen
Lesley van Reenen
9 months ago
Reply to  Ali W

He looks better than most Americans in their 20s!

polidori redux
polidori redux
9 months ago
Reply to  Ali W

Get yourself a toyboy, luv. Easier on you and easier on your significant other.

Lesley van Reenen
Lesley van Reenen
9 months ago
Reply to  Ali W

He looks better than most Americans in their 20s!

polidori redux
polidori redux
9 months ago
Reply to  Ali W

Get yourself a toyboy, luv. Easier on you and easier on your significant other.

Richard Craven
Richard Craven
9 months ago
Reply to  polidori redux

I have to say he does look pretty good actually.

Lesley van Reenen
Lesley van Reenen
9 months ago
Reply to  polidori redux

He looks mighty fine to me.

Ali W
Ali W
9 months ago
Reply to  polidori redux

I’m not sure about voting for him, but I do respect his commitment to his health. I think he looks pretty good. I’m still in my 30s, but I would be very pleased if my significant other looks that good when he’s in his 60s.

Last edited 9 months ago by Ali W
polidori redux
polidori redux
9 months ago

“Kennedy, who is 69 years old, recently shared videos of himself lifting weights and doing press-ups shirtless.”
Nobody looks good naked at 69, even to another 69 year old. Cut the gym membership and spend the money on a good tailor.

Last edited 9 months ago by polidori redux