Happier times. Credit: Jeff J Mitchell/Getty
In 1850, an eight-year-old orphan from west Africa called Sarah Forbes Bonetta Davies was sent on the long journey to England. Sarah, a Yoruba from what is now Nigeria, had been captured by the King of Dahomey during a conflict in which both her parents were killed, and spent two years as a slave until a Royal Navy Captain, on a diplomatic mission for the Queen, took pity on her and persuaded the ruler to hand her over, telling him: “She would be a present from the King of the Blacks to the Queen of the Whites.” Once in England, Queen Victoria had Sarah raised by a couple from Chatham, and the girl became a regular visitor to Windsor Castle.
Alas, the story did not have a fairytale ending. Sarah died, aged just 40, from tuberculosis in 1880 after travelling to Madeira to convalesce, Victoria by now queen of much of Africa.
It was not so unusual for the Queen of the Whites to play host to an African girl. As ruler and empress of much of the globe, Victoria saw herself as the benevolent ruler of a family of nations, of all shades of humanity; at the same time, millions of her subjects at home lived in abject poverty, and when Miss Davies was growing up barely 1.5m could vote out of a population 20 times that.
Most American men, in contrast, could choose their head of state, thanks to the revolution that had ousted Victoria’s grandfather. The creation of Jefferson, Hamilton and the other Founding Fathers had been a tremendous success, not just in terms of wealth and power but in fulfilling its high-minded hope that all men might be able to pursue happiness. President Andrew Jackson was raised in the Waxhaws, a backcountry region of the Carolinas, the son of Irish immigrants, and had gone on to the White House; Abraham Lincoln grew up in a log cabin and reached the very top.
Yet Sarah Davies could never have dreamed of dining in the White House. Although there had been black guests since the time of Lincoln, the first African-American to be invited to have dinner at the president’s home was Booker T Washington – in 1901. Even then, it caused such anger that it wouldn’t be repeated for decades.
Such a visit would have raised few eyebrows in Britain, where Queen Victoria’s circle hosted people from various backgrounds, as did those of her successors; George V, in particular, had views on race that were unusually liberal for the time. The House of Windsor, whatever their other, many faults, have always stood for what most regard as basically decency on the subject — which is why perhaps the most damaging revelation in yesterday’s Oprah Winfrey interview was Meghan Markle’s suggestion that Harry had heard “there were concerns and conversations about how dark [Archie’s] skin might be”. The Oprah interview has placed race at the heart of the royal fall-out, and, as a result, the British Royal Family has been cancelled by American progressives. The Windsor family fall-out has, unfortunately, become part of The Discourse.
Obviously the royal family should be cancelled by progressives; hereditary monarchy is, after all, a very reactionary concept. Americans cancelled the monarchy in 1776. Yet monarchies have also historically been, paradoxically, more racially tolerant than republics.
The America that rebelled against Victoria’s grandfather came to be both more egalitarian and at the same time more racially conscious and prejudiced than Britain; it developed a “colour bar” and “one-drop rule”, ideas designed to separate races into a hierarchy (although these ideas were far more pronounced in the South). Most African-Americans, when given the chance, sided with Britain in 1776, as did pretty much every Native American, because they rightly understood that as racial outsiders they were better off with a monarch ruling an empire, rather than an egalitarian republic from which they were excluded.
But these American ideas about race did not develop back in Europe; they didn’t even develop in some other parts of the Americas. Modern academia, largely colonised by the American narrative, is obsessed with ideas of “whiteness” and race even though they make little sense in the context of pre-20th century British and European history. At the end of George III’s reign, life expectancy among slaves in Trinidad was 17. For the working class in Preston it was 18, while in Liverpool it was 16. What on earth does “white privilege” mean in the context of 19th century Lancashire? What does it even mean in 21st century Lancashire?
It’s an American concept, fitting the fact that Americans historically had far more antagonistic views about race. During the Second World War the behaviour of British people towards black soldiers — and the behaviour of British women in particular — shocked US soldiers stationed here. Indeed, it was the objections of US servicemen to sharing a hotel with a black man that led to British courts reaffirming that segregation did not and could not exist in England.
That racial attitudes in Britain were not as harsh as those in America partly reflected demography — there just weren’t many black people until the 1950s — but they were also the product of the hierarchical, class-bound nature of British society. In contrast to the awesome ascent of Jackson and Lincoln, Britain didn’t have a working-class MP until (arguably) 1874, 30 years after a mixed-race man of African heritage first sat in the Commons. The UK didn’t have a working-class prime minister until 1924. No one born in a Cornish mining community could have risen to the top in Victorian England. They certainly wouldn’t have been invited to dine with the Queen.
In Britain class differences were far more important than race and were often so highly formalised as to resemble segregation. When Blackburn Rover’s Jimmy Forrest became the first professional — i.e. working-class — footballer to play for England, he had to wear a different coloured shirt to his gentleman team mates. “Professional” players also had to have separate dressing rooms. That kind of open snobbery has always been anathema to the US, even if it had its own class system and elite schools.
In contrast, various Indian cricketers played for England in the Victorian and pre-war period, five of whom had princely titles, men such as Iftikhar Ali Khan, the 8th Nawab of Pataudi. Of course, there was racial prejudice. Had the Nawab of Pataudi turned up in a Victorian pub, he might have been treated as an outsider in a way that Jimmy Forrest wouldn’t have been. But among important people who mattered, there would have been little doubt who came further up the pecking order.
Even monarchy itself is by nature multi-racial; whether or not George III’s wife Queen Charlotte really had African ancestry, royalty has always been mixed, since the earliest “peace-weaver” princesses of the early middle ages. Yet Harry and Meghan’s marriage was treated by an America-brained press like it was an earth-shattering event, when hardly anyone cared about the racial angle, another dog that didn’t bark for the media. And now, thanks to our own Americanised discourse, we’re forced to see everything through the narrative of race rather than the more salient issue of class — even the tragic self-destruction of a family the Americans decided a long time ago they wanted rid of.
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SubscribeAs an American I don’t believe in hereditary monarchy and I am glad I don’t live in one. But I respect the British who do like having their monarchy.
But this fiasco with Harry and Meghan is more about family to me. Imagine marrying a man and then trashing his 94 year old grandmother and 99 year old grandfather, who gave you a $40M+ wedding and a huge mansion, with vague accusations. Imagine trying to destroy that grandmothers life’s work. Imagine treating your brother this way. Your brother who has been there for you all your life. A man who married a woman who was kind to you and included you as the third wheel everywhere they went.
Imagine treating your own father the way she does. Imagine having a wedding like that and having only your mother important enough in your life to show up. Not a single man in your life (and there were several) who you had any kind of relationship with to walk you down the aisle. Imagine inviting hundreds of people you have never met to your wedding. It’s patently ridiculous.
Harry is feeble minded and emotionally immature. Meghan spotted him a mile off and he was ripe for the picking. It got her out of working and out of Toronto and back to LA. She could not have done that on her own. Poor Harry thought he was getting some exotic bi-racial mysterious glamour puss when it reality he just got the shallow end of the pool at the Los Angeles Holiday Inn.
This isn’t about the monarchy, it’s about Meghan and Harry.
Spot on.
yup…fine encapsulation of the many racist and misoginysts who are attracted to conservative ideology
Not to mention cluelessness, stupidity, and ethnomasochism of many attracted to degenerate ideologies like Liberalism.
Thank you for those comments. Its very encouraging to read an American with the same or similar views to most of us here in the UK. My concern is Markle is attempting to swing the opinions of entire USA against our royal family and in turn against us. A dangerous and spiteful woman. Have a great day!
I don’t know many Americans but the two I do – ladies who are very different in their political outlook – find H&M just as appalling as I do.
there is so much you and yours don’t know.
Could you explain a bit what you mean?
don’t worry too much about her impact on American sentiment. She’s not that convincing. A cursory Google search reveals a girl who went to private schools, whose parents were in the entertainment industry and likely opened doors for her, and overall, a person more likely to fit the category of privileged than woebegone.
We also didn’t like that Simpson woman.
All very deja vu I agree.
Yes indeed, the common factor being not race, but class. Plus offending the established religion by being divorced.
She was more than a bit before my time. But she lived pre-SJW days so she wouldn’t have gotten very far yelling about racism and misogyny. Today, you’re nobody unless your somebody’s victim. But she too latched on to an easily led dupe. Maybe it runs in the family.
trust me when I tell you we in the US don’t give a rat’s ass about your monarchy, they are yours to do with as you will and they represent your values ever so well…cheers.
How naughty of UnHerd to give you a pink cartouche!
how telling your willful ignorance is.
Refreshing! (But many in UK feel the same and they don’t represent our values).
and yet you all allow them to endure as an entitled elite worth $80 billion US.
And that’s your business because……..?
What’s so great about the US? Whether or not you liked “the Trump”, all the other candidates he ran against were appalling, which is important as PoTUS has a lot more power than our Monarch does. The French Presidents are equally awful. I’m over seventy and find that the Monarchy provides a satisfying sense of continuity and it’s nice to know that politicians, at least nominally, have someone they have to look up to.
French, bless them, are on their fifth Republic since 1792.
Don’t forget the 2 restored monarchies and 2 emperors .
Well, lots of things are good about the US. But the larger point may be that Meghan and Harry chose it over the UK. Now I don’t believe much of what they say about their experiences in the UK, especially since so much of it has already been disproved. But let’s not explode this incidence of petty entitlement on the Markles part into a US vs UK type thing. both countries are wonderful tolerant places to live.
ERII is the monarch of 16 independent countries. She’s on the currency of some 30 countries.
US has given the world Trump & Biden.
But you give enough of a rat’s to post yards of comments here.
I wouldn’t worry about it. As I said, this isn’t about the monarchy, it’s about Harry and Meghan.
“Poor Harry thought he was getting some exotic bi-racial mysterious glamour puss when it reality he just got the shallow end of the pool at the Los Angeles Holiday Inn.”
Stands. Applauds.
great line isn’t it – applauds also
A classic case of the lower ‘head’ leading…
willful and malign ignorace has a way of attracting like minds…you two deserve each other.
What happened to the lovely dog and then Nigel Farage?
Speaking as one mentally impaired (in your view), at least I can say I am not dyslexic! How about concentrating on the issues rather than the ad hominem attacks?
Go Annette, tell it as it is. A wonderful response to a really good article.
Two words. Thank you.
It was telling that Megan relayed the comments purportedly made by Harry. And Oprah didn’t press the point as to who was worried about Archie’s skin tone. The entire interview was a well staged propaganda ploy. Vague accusations of this sort are near criminal. H&M are the first people I would be glad to see cancelled.
Interesting also that Oprah confirmed that it was not the Queen or Philip. This suggests Charles or William. If they haven’t the guts to name the people, they should keep quiet.
I think that the person who has -supposedly- said this is unlikely to be a senior royal and more likely a comment by a staffer – overheard and then noted in meg’s little book for use at a future date. Also the context is important, we have all mused about our expected children, who will they resemble etc and many of us did wonder about Archie – before of course we knew about the surrogate-ensuring he would be white.
We don’t actually know that anyone made any comment, do we? And that’s by design. See, there’s nothing to investigate this way, the duke and duchess of SJW just get to let the stench hang in the air. Well, not for me, put up or shut up. If you’re not willing to indicate who said what precisely then there’s been no actual,accusation, has there? Somebody said something is not an accusation,
Most probably A ”staffer” who Meghan &Harry bullied..At least 11 Staff resigned or threatened to resign from their staff if they couldn’t be transferred .Not a Good Look for ”Spreading Compassion &Understanding” and bank balance..?
It wouldn’t be to Oprah’s benefit for them to have clarified who, if anyone, made a comment. And Oprah does what is to Oprah’s benefit. Unlike Harry, she is most definitely not a gullible dupe and she will dine out on this for days, dribbling out more SHOCKING revelations. Oprah wants everyone talking about her interview.
Accusation? Someone said something is not even close to an accusation. But you’re right, that was the whole point.
I don’t know Harry, I don’t know Megan. I don’t wish them any harm and I don’t have any special insight into their emotional lives or their relationship with their families and would not presume to understand other people’s family dynamics in a judgmental way. I don’t support the idea of a hereditary monarchy and don’t see why the Windsors and associated hangers on should be treated any differently than any other family.
I do find the vitriol aimed at all parties very disturbing – stomach turning, in fact. The above post brought to my mind the image of a hyena tearing at the corpse of a mauled animal.
And it is misogynist and racist to characterise Meghan as an exotic bi-racial mysterious glamour puss taking poor feeble minded Harry for a ride.
And it is misogynist and racist to characterise Meghan as an exotic bi-racial mysterious glamour puss taking poor feeble minded Harry for a ride.
Why? Because it seems accurate on all counts. She IS bi-racial; we’ve been lectured to no end over that. That she is more white than black gets left out for some reason. She IS presented as glamorous, what with being an actress.
Harry has not acquitted himself very well in this adventure; if you’re going to accuse someone of racism – which was the implication about the child’s skin tone – then be a man and name names. Or be an adult who understands that such discussions are frequent with mixed-race pairings.
So, where is the source of your heartburn? Words like misogynist and racist get tossed around so often that they are practically meaningless from overuse. It’s like listening to two teenagers who cannot speak without repetitive use of the f-word. After a time, it has all the punch of “green.”
The thing is everyone seems to trip over themselves blathering on about Harry being entrapped as if he’s not responsible for his own actions – that in itself is a misogynistic trope. Also words like ‘exotic’ are just outdated racial stereotypes – it’s at best clumsy language and at worst veiled racism.
There is nothing ‘racist’about calling a place or person ‘exotic’. It is exotic from the person’s perspective. A French friend of mine says that if he needs to visit the exotic, he has no need to go to the South Seas or the Far East.All he has do is cross the Channel where the world is seen in a way opposite to the way it is in France. France and England have always had a cat and dog relationship. By the same token, an editor in London used to talk of my exotic residency in France. For all I know, Chinese and Japanese people regard each other in the same way.
I find the use of exotic to describe a person (especially an American) to be an outdated term – a place or thing? Sure.
Ultimately if Meghan were a white woman then I find it hard to believe that the term would be used…
You don’t think an American actress would be exotic to Harry? Compared to his previous horsey set socialite type girlfriends, all English or SA?
It was a word used in a phrase by an American who demonstrates that she can do irony.
Something the Americans are supposedly unable to do.
She was accusing Harry of what you complain about.
If she Wasn’t White why does she describe herself as bi racial,at best she is Quadroon or a Quarter/..?
Good point. Tiger Woods once said his wife Elin Norgren was exotic. Don’t get much whiter than Elin Nordgren. Lloyd claiming it’s racist does not make it so.
Thanks for putting that better than I could.
thank you.
Harry said he was trapped and so are Charles and William, but they cannot do anything about it, unlike him. Now he is free but wants back in for the money and titles.
I don’t challenge that, I was referring to the trope that she entrapped him with her feminine wiles and he was powerless to resist.
I don’t think we know that he wants ‘back in’ though. I’m not privy to their thoughts but they could have genuinely and naively thought that they could escape the ‘firm’ and still perform the charitable royal duties.
Don’t confuse powerlessness with hapless gullibility. She didn’t have to entrap him, he walked right into it.
He admitted he was trapped.
I don’t challenge that, I was referring to the trope that she entrapped him with her feminine wiles and he was powerless to resist.
He is an emotionally damaged kid under it all. He is very messed up and easy pickings for a manipulator. I suspect you would not be so sure of Misandry if someone were to pick out a woman who got involved with a manipulative man and trashed her relationship with her family.
Honestly Lloyd, do you even live in the real world, women use their charms to attract and control men all the time, often without even thinking about it.
It’s not misogynistic or a “trope”, it’s the reality of the beautiful, eternal dance of the sexes. Men like it, women like it. It’s not going to go away just because some wet wokelet has dreamt up another excuse to get offended.
Google images of exotic women. It doesn’t exactly support that assertion. Nor is it used exclusively to describe women. There are other aspects to the world beyond race and gender. Hard to imagine to a follower of the Woke religion I know but not everybody views the world exclusively through those features. Many believe behavioural traits such as opportunistic manipulation are actually independent of skin colour and genitalia and should be called out regardless of such features.
Precisely. Part of Meghans exoticism was being an American. She wasn’t the run of the mill society English girl he had dated in the past. She wasn’t horsey, she wasn’t going hunting. And to top it off she was an actress. For Harry, that was exotic. In addition she was a SJW, not something he had ever been with before but it must have been deadly attractive to him because it gave him a “cause”. No prior girlfriend even came near that.
You seem to know a lot. Thank you for your fine analysis.
Edit added, after reading some more comments: you do tend to overuse the “horsey” bit.
I disagree that a use or two is overusing. And his prior girlfriends were that outdoorsy type. Of an expensive kind. It’s not an insult to say someone likes horses, btw.
He’s trapped because he’s thick and damaged. Sure, the guy has to take responsibility in the end but she marked her target and took it out clean.
I thought “exotic” was usually complimentary, at least that’s how it struck me.
Harry is a hapless dupe. There’s men like that all over the place. It’s not misogynist to note this, in fact, it says nothing at all about anyone other than the hapless dupes.
As to exotic, do you believe that Alec Baldwin’s fake Spanish wife was not more attractive to him than a plain old Boston girl would have been? Wise up.
As you say those terms are so commonplace. Yes they still intimidate and inhibit in public discourse but they are gradually losing their power. On the whole they say more about the person using the terms than those they are aimed at.
racist misogynists just can’t help themselves…do go on.
Thanks Mark for that antidote to the nastiness on here. You only have to read a few of the recent Unherd comments on this subject to realise how sensible it was of Harry and Meghan to leave this country. The articles are written by sensible people who I often disagree with but have respect for their opinions. The BTL comments however are often as unpleasant as anything you might find on Twitter.
Thank you.
those under the sway of conservative ideology rely on ad hominem as their cudgle being completely without rational thought they are incapable of rational arguement.
Which pamphlet did you crib that from?
Given the ad hom manner with which you fling around words like “racist” and “misogynist” without any evidence whatsoever, and without actually engaging in any argument with the points raised by those you thus accuse, we must then conclude that you are utterly enslaved by conservative dogma.
And do try to find the shift key; there are two of them, so it shouldn’t be beyond you.
Dear Pot, thank you for that comment. Signed Kettle.
I agree with your first paragraph especially and note the negative responses. I ended up in the same situation when commenting on another site. I don’t understand how anybody can belief they have the entitlements and privilege of the royal family just by virtue of their birth, but history shows that many do, and they collect an army of sycophants. I don’t really object to them awarding themselves titles provided they don’t do it with my money and have no role in government. The Queen has maintained her dignity because she says nothing; it is a pity the rest of the family don’t follow her example.
“I don’t understand how anybody can belief they have the entitlements and privilege of the royal family just by virtue of their birth, but history shows that many do, and they collect an army of sycophants.”
No, not sycophants. You are confusing the adioration lavished on vacuous Hollywoood celebrities with voluntary acceptance ot a constiutional ruler. Personal feelings (except in the case of a few silly people who worship the Royal Family as persons rather than value the monarchy as an institution) don’t come into it
This is a very poor post. If we didn’t have royalty we would have a president and your friend Tony would apply for the job. If Tony was playing around and got found out, you would have a lot of press and TV coverage. What’s the difference?
You have used the post to tell everyone that you don’t approve of royalty and the rest was badly thought out.
(Please ask Tony if he is looking for an Engineering advisor.)
Mr Blair,was fined for Opportuning in A Men’s toilet in 1980s,he was Charged As Anthony Lytton…..Not homophobic just Truth,Left,Right &Politically correct oafs hate.
Any evidence whatsoever as to your assertion about Andrew?
the empirical evidence has been accumulating for decades as you well know.
You grammar needs improvement, please work on it.
More Woke Garbage,If the Royal family were Racist,they would have stopped the marriage
(,Queen Charlotte 200 years ago was first bi-racial ‘Royal’ Not Self obsessed Social Climber Meghan). If you care to Look at Tabloids Positive response to Their Marriage ,just look at Leaders,Articles at the time(3 years +ago..),.She Just Wanted ‘Red Carpet’ fever of Film premiers,Fashion shows,Not 150-200 engagements Queen has or other Royals,as to pathetic Republicans , THis is Proof,no president, would be cheaper,MPs expenses inc Carrie Simmonds £200,000 refurbishment is another reason,no doubt You think All criticism of Women is ‘misogynist’? Laughable really
The wealth of the west was built on Africa’s exploitationRichard Drayton
Britain has never faced up to the dark side of its imperial history
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2005/aug/20/past.hearafrica05
Really Africa introduced Slavery to the planet. As to Garbage Africa never had wealth,until cecil Rhodes got into Diamonds…..What Observers on Africa Want to know is where billions of Aid have Gone eg Mugabe Billions in Bank,whilst Rhodesians starve & Farms derelict after being Africas ”Bread basket” blaming” Whitey” is fashionable but Wrong
She’s an actress doing what actresses do.
As far as Andrew is concerned there’s never been so much as a suggestion that he was sexually involved with pre-pubescent children, it’s dishonest or incorrect to use “pedo” to describe his (alleged) activities.
I have flagged your comment as it is libellous.
theres a good little snitch.
I didn’t characterize her that way. I don’t find her exotic, mysterious or glamorous. But poor Harry did. That was the point. If you don’t believe Meghan being an American, an actress and a SJW was the perfect trifecta of attraction for Harry Wales, then you aren’t paying attention. Compared to the social set type girl he had always dated, horsey and hunting, Meghan must have been fatally attractive. And please I mean no disrespect to horsey type socialites, but no one could be more different from Meghan.
I totally agree with you! Incredibly VITRIOLIC & judgemental views. No grey areas of uncertainty or balance. Wow so … all knowing and judge jury & executioner style comments. The WITCH HUNTS are made like this.
Funny thing tho’ – the constitutional Monarchies of Northern Europe are the most stable democratic societies we have. Odd eh? Maybe not – the Monarch is a symbol of the nation, not a political appointment loathed by half the population.
President Blair? God help us.
Otherwise, 10/10 Annette!
As for Meghan – live by the media, die by the media.
President Corbyn?
President Biden come to that.
Not so stable at the moment for the people living in monarchies, under the Covid regime and all that goes with it, e.g. testing, hindering free movement and association, isolation of healthy people/quarantine, QR code surveillance, lockdowns, masking/muzzling, and the threat of coercive vaccination for this virus which isn’t a serious threat to most people…
But the Royal Family are out there spruiking the vaccines, with the 94 year old Queen inferring people are selfish not to have vaccination, and Prince William promoting AstraZeneca.
‘The Firm’ benefits from its connections and has plenty of influence, are its investments publicly disclosed, are there any conflicts of interest?
And Prince Charles is part of the Great Reset, of the ‘You will own nothing, and you will be happy’ idea…
What exactly is he involved in with the World Economic Forum, and how does this bear on his role constitutionally in regards to the throne, Commonwealth etc…?
What is this future king planning for ‘his subjects’?
‘constitutional Monarchies of Northern Europe are the most stable democratic societies we have’
It’s one of those statements that sounds authoritative but actually means very little on examination.
Depends on how you define stable, how you define constitutional and over what time period. Spain compared to France? Germany compared to Netherlands? Iceland compared to Denmark compared to Ireland?
When I was in the Netherlands, I lived a street away from the then-queen. It was pretty stable.
I wouldn’t bother to replay. He is a 53 year old, massively overpaid NHS Bureaucrat, probably an inhabitant of Quislinnton, who has been irreparably tarred with the brush of Marxism. QED.
Looks like I’ve got a stalker. It’s unsettling. Please try and focus on what I say and not who I am.
On the Spanish monarchy, wasn’t there a coup attempt by some military officers, which ended when the King told them to stop it?
I suspect that post-intervention Afghanistan may have been more stable if the monarchy had been restored (always assuming the candidate and his heir weren’t outrageously corrupt numpties).
The mere form of democracy without deeply embedded traditions of operating democracy are very fragile. Recent US history shows us that democracy is pretty fragile even with a long and broadly successful tradition. Ultimately it probably comes down to integrety in the people operating the systems, whatever the systems actually are. Singapore did well with a dictator of integrity – Zimbabwe less so with a president who lacked any.
Yes around April 1981 .The Falange wanted their President back,Wokeists of Right or left Dont like facts!!!
I look on the Royal Family as employees of the nation, representatives just as a President would be. If the nation decides, preferably through a referendum that they are no longer required they would retire. In short, the Firm would be disolved. The fact is they are far more colourful and interesting than a dull, grey President which are two a penny the world over and worth the money spent on them.
Thankyou Annette, I applaud your ‘its not for me but I respect your choices’ comment, the world needs more of this.
Great assessment about Meghan’s ridiculous attempt to cry victim. However, letting Harry off the hook and just filing him under feeble minded discounts his own disgusting victim mentality and playing at being the rebel but then being huffy and disgruntled when he gets cut off.
He’s as much of a cry bully as his wife. And honestly, I’m just sick of rich and famous people playing the victim card. I hope there is a special circle in hell just for them. I want them to come into their victim hood completely, since they’ve fetishized it, and we all know fetishes are the most respected aspect of humanity under the woke.
A bit like Adam saying “the woman tempted me.”.
I hear the word “privilege” banded a lot. But if it can be applied to anyone it is surely these two. They have more financial security most could dream of, a healthy young family and $11m mansion in LA. And yet incredibly they and their PR team have found a way of monetizing victimhood to further finance their luxury lifestyle. They’re playing the public like fiddles and they’re too blind to see it
Being feeble minded doesn’t take him off the hook. He is a huge cry bully but he never had the gall to really do it up right before Meghan. She gave him permission to do more than be photographed nude at parties. Now he can really step up and stand out, as a full victim in his prime, he was always just number 2 before.
But they are a perfect match in many ways. He was looking all his life for something different. Well, he got it. I don’t think he will be happy in the US. People who were “somebody” in their own country but just plain old Harry in another can rarely handle the let down. I think the US lost in getting these two back, so two points for Great Britain.
Thank you, Annette. That is beautifully summed up.
Nail on head.
The US is rather like a Monarchy though, as is France. The difference is that you elect a new monarch every 8 (or sometimes 4 years) whilst all we can do is chop the occasional head off or chuck them out and invite a new one to take over. The President of the US has many more powers than most hereditary monarchs and the main thing the President doesn’t control is the money!.
The US president may not control the money but some of them, Clinton and Obama that is, certainly rake it in. Obama’s influence over gullible Harry may have something to do with this.
The US is exactly like a monarchy except without a hereditary monarch.
thank you very well said
If I could I would copy and send this to every media outlet in the UK, especially BBC, ITV and Sky !! I am so sick and tired of these people who reliably inform us what apparently “we think” based upon spurious Opinion Polls and talking heads both of which are designed to reinforce their very narrow world view, which in most cases is defeated in the only place that should matter in a Democracy. The ballot box
What I am trying to say on this subject is why do we in MSM never have fully thought out, reasoned and sensible opinions such as yours that I consider vastly more aligned with what we “the actual great unwashed” think, rather than a vanishingly small numbers wise group of people who in my opinion seem to get just about everything wrong on ever subject.
Also since when (I must have missed it) has it become the default position that anyone makes an allegation about Race or Sexual Abuse (even decades since) they are automatically believed by this same group?
Thanks again for your comment
Thank you StuRt. I believe people with plain old common sense see through this nonsense but most people are just going about their lives, working, taking care of their families. They might watch stuff like this interview for the same reason they slow down as they go by a car wreck. Pure voyeurism. I’ll admit to enjoying a bit of light entertainment like these two knuckleheads.
The media are just selling papers, good for them. But the key is not taking it all seriously. There is more than a bit of humor in watching millionaires crying to billionaires about their mistreatment. Enjoy it without guilt or angst. We would have to make this stuff up if it were not so obligingly provided to us.
Look at ”Al-Jazeera””,Russia today” Listen to ”Talkradio,” there is still Freedom of Thought&speech on these Media platforms,when it drifts into ”Opinion” they say so.;.hopefully GB News with Brillopad will be Unwoked..when it starts on TV
Bullseye!!
I have lived and worked in UK, Norway, Canada, Sweden, Belguim, The Netherlands, Denmark, UAE, Japan, Australia and New Zealand … all really nice civilized places these monarchies. On the other hand, the Republics (including the US) I have worked in are decidedly dodgy and uncomfortable.
The US is not for everyone. But it is definitely for me.
It’s lovely that you have somewhere to live that suits your politics. And I’m equally happy that the UK does not – however creaking its universal healthcare and social security systems may be.
Interesting that you equate happiness with living a specific place to politics. Of course, you can find any politics you want in the US as well as the UK. Most people don’t find politics to equate to life but if you do, that’s your business.
I didn’t say anything about the UK. I am sure I could find happiness in lots of places.
Good comment, though I would say that there are plenty of constitutional monarchies – especially in Europe. The alternatives are usually some time serving hack of a failed politician or a presidential style of government, for which the only European example is France and few would follow that route – noted as it is for corruption and ineptitude. These European constitutional monarchies do (per the rticle) tend to be stable, liberal and democratic.
Yes, surely there are constitutional monarchies but they still have a hereditary monarch. And there’s the rub. I am just not big on titles and knighthoods and curtsying and bowing and that sort of stuff. It isn’t how I would, as an American, describe either liberal or democratic. To each his/her own. Meghan is, after all, an American, and seems to quite like royal titles.
I am sure Mr Markle isn’t perfect but he has been treated shabbily by his daughter and his son in law who can’t even be bothered to meet him. Four years and he hasn’t seen his grandchild. What a rotten pair.
Yes, I’m sure he is not perfect. But it seems like they could have protected him a bit more. After all, what possible experience could he have had with this? Shabby treatment indeed.
She has ignored her step family )One Sister says She is liar &fantasist) hardly a ringing endorsement of ”Your Truth”?..
hold on a second there annette, dont assume all of us brits like having a monarchy. as far as im concerned the sooner this elitist organisation is abolished the better.
I didn’t assume that.
You would only be able to say that here.. but it’s true
this is about racism and misogyny—foundational principles of conservative ideology and there is no ideology more conservative than Monarchy.
I would say that you are doing exactly what the article counsels against: assuming that everywhere else is like the USA, except that even if one accepts that conservative ideologies evolved entirely separately in Europe and North America, I’m sure it would be hard to find a foundational document of North American conservatism that proclaims the supposed virtues of racism and misogyny.
As for the UK, it appears that you either did not read the article, of understood very little of it.
If you mean the Markles, it’s actually about pettiness and entitlement.
It’s sad that you cannot see the issues here in terms of anything but family.
It’s also sad that you exude that hoary old female b***h-culture which delights in taking other women down. Whatever else may be said, Megan is undeniably beautiful, not just a “glamour puss” as you so nastily put it.
And if you think that Harry sees other races as “exotic”, you clearly have no knowledge of the lack of racial prejudice general in upper-class circles worldwide. Which means, in turn, that you have not even bothered to read this article properly, since it addresses that very point.
Now what does that say about you, I wonder?
“Megan is undeniably beautiful” – absolutely not. Attractive (in the physical sense only), yes. She’s just a toxic septic.
Odd thing about these femme fatale types is they often aren’t attractive in the standard way but doe-eyed which seems to make some men protective. Harry was going on about how she finally has a family , cancelling out her father who had been perfectly acceptable until then and all her other aunts uncles etc. Even Prince Charles said he had always wanted a daughter-ignoring that he already had a daughter in law Catherine and a step-daughter Laura.
It’s pretty clear that Meghan wasn’t happy about being second fiddle to Kate. But yes, taking your family down in public isn’t something I would do.
I didn’t say Meghan wasn’t beautiful, I find her very much so. It isn’t her appearance I am criticizing, it’s her actions. I don’t believe that appearance excuses actions.
I said nothing about her race either. Are you sure it’s my posts you were reading? Not only would an American actress have been exotic to Harry but a foreign prince would have been exotic to Meghan.
Great summary.
Haha! You really don’t approve of her do you. I wonder if his experience as a child made him more sensitive to her distress with the media? This in turn might have caused a sort of positive feedback loop causing the pair of them to wildly overreact? Just a thought, but I quite agree it is a disgraceful performance from the pair of them. Very sad for the family.
It’s pretty clear that I don’t approve of her behavior, yes. It seems to be a lifelong pattern of tossing people who are no longer useful to her to the curb.
i don’t find her distressed with the media. She lives for it. And when she found Harry, she served as the match to launch his own victim hood into the stratosphere. He just wasn’t believable as a victim on his own.
If the accusations are, as you put it, vague – and if nobody is named, how can it amount to “ trashing his 94 year old grandmother and 99 year old grandfather”? Are we losing perspective just a little?
Yes she has lost perspective. As has Harry.
“who gave you a $40M+ wedding and a huge mansion” — Crown property is not really hers to give….
Google Frogmore.
Yeah – like it (The Pratt and the Rat)
Also isn’t it rather strange that a not that youngish newly married couple expect his grandparents ( who are in their nineties) his parent and wife ( both in their seventies ) and his brother (with his own wife and young family) to take care of them as though they are young teenagers? Daddy stopped my money , Katie made me cry but later ‘owned’ her mistake etc etc-all rather childish and petty.
Is it normal to expect old people in their seventies and nineties to concern themselves about two people approaching middle-age? Surely the concern should be the other way around?
if a privileged millionaire complaining to a billionaire about the injustices of life doesn’t convince you, then nothing will.
A shame I can’t upvote this a million times. You echo my sentiment precisely.
I am so stealing this.
If you look at what she actually complains about in the interview it amounts to: she was ‘unhappy’ & the royals were ‘cold’; they wouldn’t change the rules to make her son a Prince (they wouldn’t make my son a Prince either for what it’s worth); Kate made her cry. The only genuine cause for complaint is that someone unnamed wondered how dark Archie would be… And they won’t name that person. Not exactly traumatic stuff is it?
Correct, it was all about how the situation she found herself was too alien. Luckily for them they had money to move away and live the life they prefer. Interestingly Harry commented that the family member asked ‘what will the kids look like’. You can read into this with negative connotations but if you take it a face value it’s a comment that most people make when offspring are discussed.
Yes, my kids are all mixed heritage and I had many conversations about what they’ll look like when I was pregnant with them (and I am now having lots of similar discussions with my grown up child about what my grandkids will look like. They are likely to be all shades and colours. Makes no difference, frankly, I’ll love them all, but I’m still curious about they’ll look).
Yes, spot on! All kinds of things can be said. Someone might have said, “it is all right if the baby has Harry’s looks but not his brains!”
Whenever anyone has a baby, don’t people always talk about whether they baby will be ginger like the dad, or blonde like the mum, etc etc.
They make very damaging but unspecific accusations, and then tar every one with the same brush by not identifying who made them. And as they don’t identify, no one can come back and explain what they actually said.
Harry relayed the comment to Meghan. But I sense it’s an innocent comment about the baby, that’s then manipulated and taken out of context.
Harry has bought into white privilege and victim politics and critical race theory 100%.
Agree. It looks like Harry is having a kind of epiphany. Good luck to them, just do it quietly without all the drama.
Harry also married a woman steeped in privilege, a person educated in private schools with Hollywood parents who could open doors for her acting career. This woman is <50% black, but from hearing her, you get the impression that she grew up in some urban hood, dodging white supremacists by day and gang bangers by night.
She may have met some “gang bangers” in Hollywood studios.
According to Lady Colin Campbell (herself Jamaican and mixed race) she is not 50% black, but 25% black.
He did say “<50%”. I have to wonder, given that most of us over here neither knew nor cared about her racial background, if “whiteness” carries with it such privilege, why is she so keen to emphasise the smaller black proportion of her genes?
A different, but similar, question might be asked of those, like Rachel Dolezal and Jessica Krug, who adopt an African-American identity without the bloodline to back it up.
Harry will always need a Mummy to tell him what to do and what to think. His original Mum was also a spoilt child who wanted the entire Royal Family and the British system to change to suit her.
Then when he grew older, he had the Army to tell him what to do etc.
Now he’s got MeAgain obviously telling him what to do, say and think.
For Diana, see James Lees-Milne’s diary entry for 1st September 1997 in his The Milk of Paradise or Diaries, 1984-1997. I quoted excerpts in the comments section in yesterday’s Unherd. My personal feeling is that the current business is the long-term effect of the poison Diana poured into his weak-minded younger son.
What possible evidence do you have for this assertion?
You are spot on, when I was having my kids, we had comments as to if the red hair gene would show up, it’s not malicious, just normal curiosity. But in these days of the perpetually offended, every comment can – with a twisted mindset, be taken out of context and converted to a nasty insult. Somebody once put it to me: ‘it’s not the mouth it comes out of, it’s the mind it goes into’,
The problem with the ‘whataboutery’ type argument about hair colour, is that you didnt used to have to give up your seat on a bus, if you had blond hair, to someone without blond hair.
Why is that a factor?
I don’t think hair colour is used to the same degree as skin colour is, to prejudice. Is my point.
Can you explain a bit more?
Yes. We have an epidemic in the US of liberal white people pretending to be black and brown people. Senator Elizabeth Warren tried it. Alec Baldwins wife was a recent case, parading around pretending to be Hispanic. Rachel Dolezal, head of a west coast NAACP outed by her own family as white, Professor Ward Churchill caught pretending to be Native American (it’s particularly common among academics, Jessica Krug and CV Vitolo Haddad are examples). Satchuel Cole, a racial justice activist, no less. Caught pretending to be black.
And these days, they are getting caught more often, mostly due to social media. You don’t find the reverse though, black and brown people pretending to be white.
Ah, got it, yes, it is interesting one. I can’t claim to understand their motives, apart from it appears to be an attempt to seek attention either for them selves of what they are supporting.
is this just another argument (like the blond hair example I commented on) where the initial point is being diluted, not by sound, fact based discussion, but more ‘whataboutary’? Not sure I have the debating term right though, so apologies if there is a better word for it.
i am not sure I would want to be anything apart from what I am.
Well there are many benefits to identifying as black or brown in the US. For example, Elizabeth Warren got a job at a prestigious university that was very happy to tout their “Native American” as an example of their diversity. She was a token, albeit a fake one. They were trying to check the diversity box with a clearly white professor. Often professors get jobs based on race, usually in degree programs focused on race as well. You would not get a job as a professor of ChIcano Studies, for example, unless you were Chicano. You would not get a top local job with the NAACP as a white applicant.
Hair color is an odd example since that’s changeable. Black people can have blond hair.
Your mate Donald trump called ”Red indian” Elizabeth Warren imagined indian heritage as ”pocohontas” which iS hilarious and guaranteed to outrage the sanctomonius liberal media..
Yes it was quite amusing but then Warren brought it on herself by trying to masquerade as a Native American. Most of the people who have been caught faking race have either lost their jobs or had to resign. Warren was lucky that she didn’t. Not sure that she should not have anyway.
You obviously Didn’t have Red hair,as I have?..Should I claim A ”Your truth” interview for hurt or imagined hurt ? Victimhood..
I would wager neither Meghan nor Harry ever had to surrender a bus seat. They are socially elite, wealthy and famous; hardly a starting point for victimhood. They are shooting for victim status in spite of it all and may just pull it off. “Why?” escapes me. Dr Freud, please call your office.
No one ever had to give up a seat on a bus in England unless wanting to out of civility or chivilary,
It is a US example of where rights were accorded by skin colour. But I suspect you may know that and I am missing the sarcasm, apologies if that is the case. A UK example would be a sign saying ‘No blacks’ on the window of a boarding house.
This type of behaviour is illegal now. No laws passed defending such behaviour against certain hair colours.
The point here is a slowly increasing number of people are finding comments about future childrens hair colour offensive. There is some sort of spectrum of acceptability. To be honest, I would discuss it, but not with the parents, and I feel uncomfortable writing that, but trying to make the spectrum point. I would have no qualms discussing hair colour with anyone, including the parents.
i think the position of people on the spectrum moves over time, and current times are seeing more of a jump than a slow movement.
About 90% of the World wondered what colour the child would be, but mainly out of curious observation. The remainder couldn’t care less.
Very typical and even banal as many newcomers by marriage feel unwelcome. My paternal aunt told me that my mother warned her against their sister-in-law whom she said was “poison”. Sure enough, there was a break-up between the sister-in-law, my uncle and aunt by marriage several years later. Family life can be hell.
It just didn’t turn out like Disney said it would so it needs to be filmed again with an alternative ending! The nasty vice-chancellor didn’t turn into a toad and the fairy godmother didn’t turn the carriage into a pumpkin and the princess discovered that she was not even a princess but only a duchess whilst Prince Ginger was still a prince.
I tried to give you a thumbs-up Mr Wilde, but my iPhone wouldn’t let me.
The reason HM Queen wouldn’t Keep Harry on ‘Civil list’ is she would have to revert to crown estates which make 4x civil list, She pays Tax & has stealthily cut hangers on, it was Harry &Meghan’s choice Not to do Civil engagements. Also we are led to believe Harry,Patron of several mental sickness charities,sent Meghan to H&R (hire &fire) not clever …but I still prefer royalty to Presidency ,just…
The ‘Civil List’ was abolished in 2011 I think it was and was replaced by the ‘Sovereign Grant’ which is 15% of the profits from the Crown Estates. As these were handed over to Parliament by King George III in exchange for a Civil List payment I think it rather sharp of Parliament to welch on its side of the bargain while retaining the Crown Estate revenue.
So why is it referred to on News media as ”Civil List”?..
Because they are ignorant or careless. Or both
I didn’t watch this drivel – better things to do – but I have seen a few clips and read about it. What you have here is two deeply damaged people who seems to be burning with resentment, frustrated ambition, jealousy and envy who are both lacking in self awareness and basic common sense.
She was a very minor actress, and not a particularly good one, who had had a minor role in a minor soap drama. Note she wasn’t talent spotted and got no decent role after ‘Suits’ finished. That tells you a fair amount.
And for all the twaddle about ‘compassion’ she doesn’t seem to have very much of it herself. I believe she merely sent her rings back to her first husband by FedEx – she hadn’t the common decency to ask him for a divorce to his face. Look at how she has treated her Father. He was not a well man at the time she got married, but she made no effort to go and see him and take her latest catch to meet him. I’ve even read (might be untrue of course) that she told him he could come to the wedding as long as he cut all contact with his other children. Trouble is you can believe it’s true.
We then get to the resentments such as wee Archie isn’t a Prince because of racism. This is a wicked and evil slur. Under the Law laid out over a century ago he was not entitled to be a Prince – he is when his Grandfather becomes King, but not before. And if they hate the Monarchy so much why would they want him to be one, and for that matter why don’t they renounce their titles ?? You can’t have it both ways.
As to Harry and his moan that the Prince of Wales wouldn’t take his phone calls I would say given how you have behaved why would he want to talk to you ? And not being able to go directly to Sandringham, being blocked by courtiers, he seems to forget that his grandmother is the Queen, and I am sure she deduced he was wanting to see her to try and manipulate her. The Queen is a wise old bird and I am sure she had his number and you can’t push her around that easily.
All in all this was a very shoddy and shameful interview, shot through with outright lies, half truths and distortions. Perhaps the honest and honourable thing for these two to do now is to give up their titles and get on with their lives as plain Mr & Mrs, and for them never to darken our door again.
The ten minutes I lasted – it came across as a chat between friends not an interview!
I think it was after divorcing her First husband,She Wanted Canadian citizenship in 2013-15 and got engaged to a Canadian TV celebrity chef & FedEx her rings back to him,with no explanation,to marry ”A Real life Prince” the danger of 24/7 media is it is insatiable for news & ‘fake news’? She even ditched her pets in Toronto ,to move next door to her @ordinary’ mate,Billionaire Oprah Winfreyin LA
Well said.
Americans are obsessed with race and want the rest of the world to be obsessed with it, too.
Only some Americans. Most of us are normal people.