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Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban is due to meet former – and perhaps future – President Trump in Florida next week, a major step for American conservatives in sealing a relationship with the controversial leader. In advance of that meeting, UnHerd’s Freddie Sayers was joined in the studio by Gladden Pappin to discuss why the American Right seem so enamoured with Orban’s political philosophy. Pappin was at the forefront of the US ‘post-liberal’ movement and is now advisor to Viktor Orban via the government funded Institute of International Affairs in Hungary.
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Subscribehaha… a great mystery indeed.
West Europe is basically California and New York City, Millions of rather problematic Illegals stream to it, but anyone native who has built up much is eyeing the exits. Their industry closing, a ‘Service Economy’, a finance economy with tech too, not not so much need for blue collar, and Middle Class looking scared. Most people getting some State help – becoming ‘Clients’ of the State, and so more poverty is created, as then more citizens become clients, which means cheap votes bought and perpetuity in office – and the Left Loves that.
Now East Europe – they are the Texas Florida mindset, center Right… still being dragged down by the extreme Left on the West coast – but fighting more and more and looking like they are winning from this resisting of the cultural degradation of the Postmodernist Left-Liberals.
Personally I think Russia should be let into NATO as NATO is a dead man walking and really just symbolic anyway. Russia is Orthodox Christian, NOT the USSR, Patriotic, trying to fix the demographic family issues by becoming more child friendly instead of opening its doors to millions and millions of unskilled, culturally different men of fighting age. They have massive resources Europe lacks, they wish – and are succeeding, in industrializing, they seem like the perfect partner. West Europe all mega decadent but with vast money hidden away – East Europe, still old fashioned in their ways and wanting to work hard, and Russia – very old fashioned.
Like Canada – USA – Mexico in a way – The grounds for a Super Power. Europe would never be a Super Power without Russia and the land, resources, energy, agriculture, and people still with Christian Morality.
Of course the whole Ukraine Proxy War which the West engineered since 2008 is just to stop this happening. Stop this Super Power arising by Russia, East Europe, and West Europe aliening together. To bind Russia to China. To accelerate Europe’s Decline into dissipated decadence, and poverty and crime, internal hatred and so on.
The Right likes Orban because he is a Desantis ilk – he sees the Postmodernist Left is out to destroy the West, and wishes to prevent that – even if just for his own nation.
I did not listen to it – I find these things to be a bit of a wan kefest, but hope it makes some good points.
Russia certainly has the untapped resources that the EU would love to have easy access to. Because the modern European liberal faints at the idea of fracking for your own energy consumption in France or Italy.
“which the West engineered” – does that include South Ossetia and Abkhazia (2008) & Ukraine itself (2014)? Because Putin’s desire to expand Russia’s borders seems to have been well established prior to the 2 year old invasion.
I find Freddie overdoing the libertarian bit without taking the context of Soros backed NGOs peddling identitarian globalism or that of the Western establishment’s tacit support to it.
Mr Pappin sounds far more rational than Freddie trying to be contrarian by turning Gramscian, and thus seemingly justifying the excesses of Western Progressivism.
Playing Devil’s advocate should not translate into peddling globalist Woke fantasies and blathering about “free press”, ” free speech” etc which Freddie knows all too well doesn’t exist in Western liberal democracies today.
You seem unable to hear anything you can somehow even tangentially associate with Marx, fairly or not. Sayers “sounds” Gramscian and thus “seems” to justify “the excesses of Western Progressivism”? This is a hocus-pocus argument that seems to reflect your own fondness for right-wing authoritarians when they sound rational enough.
I’ll ask you point blank: Is Narendra Modi far right enough for you?
AJ, name calling doesn’t make for polite discussion. I”ll ask you to refrain from typical Left authoritarian reactions of descending into diatribe and abuse when arguments fail. You disappoint me with your harum- scarum provocative remarks. I didn’t find Sayers his usual sophisticated self in this talk and I am entitled to my opinions.
You maynot be aware of what Gramscian thought entails- if you did, you would understand what I meant.
I don’t intend to comment here further on the other pot you sought to stir, as I like to stick to overall protocols of being on topic. You may refer to my comments on the Gurri piece of 12/12/23 should you seek to know more. Obviously Indian history and politics are not your forte from your sweeping assertions.
Sorry to see you go down a troll path- I thought you were not one.
I’m not. Nor did I call you names. You took a series of what I perceive to be very cheap shots (“peddling globalist Woke fantasies”, e.g.) and praised an admittedly mild-mannered extremist for sounding reasonable. This hyperbole in no way on topic, except from a hyper-reactive, ranting standpoint.
You can’t answer my direct question concerning Modi. Would you agree he is a Hindu nationalist? I am rather lightly informed about politics in your home country, but you set yourself up as an authority on Western politics and academia too–upon rather thin grounds. Even the depth of knowledge and insight you imply that you have wouldn’t render your all your opinions correct.
We still have free speech, and vestiges of a free press over here. Perhaps you’d be happier if that were less true. You certainly seem very defensive of Gladden Pappin, and perhaps of Viktor Orban’s illiberal project.
Disappointing, Ms. Gupta.
Your words show yourself to be what you are. No-one has ” set themselves up”- you obviously can’t take different views. I don’t agree with Freddie’s approach and I have every right to state that as I have paid to be on a supposed “free speech” site
Someone else above has also posted on my lines, we should tolerate other views instead of sounding sanctimonious as you do. Clearly you are averse to opinions which are not echo chambers.
Twisting the truth is not my style. I believe in internet etiquette too and that’s why I gave a link, instead of going wildly off topic in this topic.
Arrividerci, and I am equally disappointed in someone I thought was different from many here who are obvious in a bubble.
It seems to me that the fundamental divide between “Liberalism” and “conservativism” is between an “I” and “We” view of a polity. Hungary is pursuing a “We” view, perhaps because there there still remains such a thing. The UK and the US are chasing an “I” view because we have lost the homogeneity that a We implies. A society built on 65 million odd little egos doesn’t have much of a future, I feel. Whether we can construct a “We” is crucial. In the US, perhaps each state can do so. That may be its salvation.
“The UK and the US are chasing an “I” view because we have lost the homogeneity that a We implies”. Don’t think that is quite right. We started pursuing the ‘I’ view because it theoretically is the best BUT only if there is a ‘We’ behind it. As soon as you lose that homogeneity of basic beliefs it will all just fall apart.
As we can all see the UK has for some years been devoted to destroying the ‘We’ and so neither the ‘We’ or ‘I’ approach can now work. Result will be collapse, possibly followed by authoritarian control.
Freddy raised the point about the dangers of espousing a moral society of family etc and then having ministers involved in sex scandals and implied that this meant Orban et all should not espouse morality.
Does that mean that a Govt should not crack down on corruption because some of its people may be corrupt?:
I as an American conservative (classical liberal where you are) only every hear of Viktor Orban from left leaning people writing about how American conservatives like him. It’s strange that American conservatives don’t talk or think about him at all …
My only critique of Freddy is he’s comparing conservative government vs. some fictional idealist version of liberalism that doesn’t exist… especially in places like the UK where you can be arrested for saying things on Twitter. How is the UK more free exactly?