July 31, 2023 - 8:45pm
Donald Trump is crushing Ron DeSantis because MAGA voters don’t care about the culture wars and most want the Florida Governor to lay off woke corporations. This is the upshot of commentary around the latest New York Times/Siena poll of Republican primary voters. This analysis, however, is wrongheaded — even if it contains an element of truth.
When forced to choose between two options, “a candidate who promises to fight corporations that promote ‘woke’ left ideology”, and “a candidate who says that the Government should stay out of deciding what corporations can support”, the sample broke 52-38 for the libertarian rather than anti-woke choice. This prompted Benjy Sarlin at Semafor to gleefully conclude that “fighting woke corporations, probably DeSantis’ top issue, is somehow a loser among Republicans.”
Yet the question doesn’t ask whether people agree with fighting woke corporations, but rather what they prioritise. In other words, it taps into salience rather than attitudes. To appraise Republican attitudes, consider the following from surveys I conducted or analysed in 2021. Among 2020 Trump voters, 90% said political correctness had gone too far, 69% said the law should prevent “a firm from being able to discriminate against a Trump supporter in hiring”, and 65% said that “the Government should ban forms of mandatory diversity training”. The remainder were opposed or unsure. Trump voters really are anti-woke, and many want to see Government action to combat it.
On a second set of questions, however, answers are more finely balanced. While 51% of Trump voters said that “the Government should step in to overrule tech firms that ban or suspend users for making legal but controversial statements on social media about race, gender, or sexuality,” 30% disagreed. When it came to overruling private organisations “that punish employees” for making such statements, the margin in favour narrowed to 40-35.
The New York Times poll also reveals that GOP primary voters prioritise protecting individual freedom (51%) over traditional values (40%). This tells us that suspicion of Government is a powerful idiom among many Republican voters, and can sometimes check the desire to see authority clamp down on woke organisations. Score one for the Chamber of Commerce.
But question wording is also important, and on concrete issues cued by Trump the result can change swiftly. Thus, by a 59-29 margin, the Times found that Republican primary voters prioritise “Keeping Social Security and Medicare benefits as they are” over cutting the deficit. They incline 69-17 in favour of saying that the US has lost out rather than gained from freer trade.
When asked whether society should “accept” or “NOT accept” transgender people “as the gender they identify with”, these voters break 58-30 against accepting trans people’s chosen gender. Among the core Trumpist 75% of these voters, the margin tilts 65-26. Not so libertarian.
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SubscribeI’m anti-woke in so far as much of woke ideology works against human nature and, in its megalomaniacal quest to quell all forms of oppression real or imagined, human freedoms.
Woke thinking has always existed in one form or another. It’s a mindset, not a coherent set of beliefs – one that was usually only to be found in religious zealots and neo-na**s.
The problem with woke is not the people, even though they are pretty repugnant – it’s how governments and corporations have cleverly co-opted this mindset to bully and harass ordinary citizens and employees. This is not a silly culture war; we are in the grips of a pitiless and tyrannical enemy that sees all forms of human success and flourishing outside itself as a system of competition that must either be eradicated or absorbed into and emasculated by the state apparatus.
Jules is very triggered! I bet he can’t even provide a coherent definition of “woke” other than “things that annoy Julian”!
Lets give him a few minutes to see what google comes up with for him…
My kingdom for an ignore button.
My condolences. He’s very boring isn’t he.
My condolences. He’s very boring isn’t he.
These types of comments belong on other sites – many are available. If you don’t agree with a comment, try making a well constructed counter argument. Sure it takes effort, but give it a go.
Here’s what you need to do: turn off the telly, bin the newspapers and read some books. Give it a year and then come back when you have something interesting to say.
You really are smug and self satisfied. So privileged to have a member the elite contributing.
He’s welcome to borrow my definition:-
THE AUTHORITARIAN PSEUDO-PROGRESSIVE USURPATION OF LIBERALISM
primarily manifesting as:-
i. anti-White racism and the denial of black agency
ii. climate catastrophism
iii. the erasure of women and the infiltration by men of female-only spaces
iv. sadistic paedophilia.
Better to remain silent and let people think you may be a fool, rather than opening your mouth and confirming it!
My kingdom for an ignore button.
These types of comments belong on other sites – many are available. If you don’t agree with a comment, try making a well constructed counter argument. Sure it takes effort, but give it a go.
Here’s what you need to do: turn off the telly, bin the newspapers and read some books. Give it a year and then come back when you have something interesting to say.
You really are smug and self satisfied. So privileged to have a member the elite contributing.
He’s welcome to borrow my definition:-
THE AUTHORITARIAN PSEUDO-PROGRESSIVE USURPATION OF LIBERALISM
primarily manifesting as:-
i. anti-White racism and the denial of black agency
ii. climate catastrophism
iii. the erasure of women and the infiltration by men of female-only spaces
iv. sadistic paedophilia.
Better to remain silent and let people think you may be a fool, rather than opening your mouth and confirming it!
Progressives are using children as canon fodder in some kind of ideological march through the institutions. The adults preaching this religion have no issue causing psychological and physical suffering to
society’s most vulnerable members. It’s gross and creepy.
I generally don’t care what an adult believes, as long as they don’t impose their beliefs on other people. This is certainly not the case with progressives.
There’s also something terribly wrong when large swathes of society believe things that simply aren’t true. When everything becomes a social construct, nothing can be true.
“There’s also something terribly wrong when large swathes of society believe things that simply aren’t true”
I suspect that Jimmy doesn’t get the irony in this statement since he will believe anything he hears from the likes of Trump. Comical!
Geez, another insightful and well-argued position from CS. I’ll say this again. I don’t like Trump. I didn’t like him before he entered politics and I don’t like him now. IMO he’s a sociopathic narcissist. But he’s not the cause of the rot that has infected American politics, he’s a symptom of that rot.
In fact, CS you seem to be a lot like Trump – call people names and don’t really say anything.
Agree JV and concur CS did overplay the point. But to return to ‘…large swathes of society believe things that simply aren’t true’ – what about religion? Whilst some elements have beneficial effects the majority is utter cobblers but folks believe it and we live with it.
Thus for example – what’s the difference between someone who believes in transubstantiation and someone that whilst they may be born with 2 X Chromosomes they feel their gender is female?
Not much in my view. Harmless so long as not imposed on others.
Good point for sure and you can legit argue that I was being hyperbolic – something that annoys me, but here I am being hyperbolic. I’m probably blind to many dubious beliefs people regard as fact. Religion is one. There are probably others.
If pushed, I would probably admit to believing in God – I guess I’m a tepid agnostic – at least in the sense of a higher being. But is it possible to disprove God? I don’t think evolution disproves God. I don’t think the Big Bang Theory does either. An omnipotent being could create both those things.
I’m not sure if transubstantiation is a good example. How many Catholics actually believe this? Some do of course, but I would argue the vast majority of Catholics see it more symbolically, rather than an actual physical change.
The problem with religion was back in the day, when it imposed itself on all of society and dominated people in an authoritarian way. Today, at least in the west, it is more likely to be beneficial, creating a sense of community and positive values that enrich people’s lives.
I would argue that most progressives believe there is no truth, that everything is merely a social construct. Males are males because society has deemed this to be truth, not because of biology.
Point well taken though. Progressives aren’t the only ones who believe in things that simply are not true.
Suspect you are right on how many Catholics really believe in transubstantiation but for now it’s a fundamental part of the catechism.
Nonetheless we can be chilled about it as it’s no longer imposed and it’s up the individual. We also can be respectful regarding certain beliefs as they don’t greatly affect oneself, and why, in general, be needlessly rude about someone’s beliefs even if those are bit daft. But the moment such believers, whether religious or some gender ideologist, cross a certain line then they need to accept the push-back.
Totally agree.
If you actually believe in God then transubstantiation is not a big deal
As an atheist I’m not rude about religious faith, because I understand the impulse driving the belief that there must be more to life than this, even if I don’t share it.
Totally agree.
If you actually believe in God then transubstantiation is not a big deal
As an atheist I’m not rude about religious faith, because I understand the impulse driving the belief that there must be more to life than this, even if I don’t share it.
Good point.
“The problem with religion was back in the day, when it imposed itself on all of society and dominated people in an authoritarian way.”
Woke is doing the same today. It isnt believing in being transgender that is the problem. It is demanding other people stop believing what they know is true.
I can accept that some people, for a myriad of reasons, become confused about gender and need to live life as a different gender than that they were born. I believe we must treat them as equal human beings.
I do not accept that gender is merely a fun choice for all – c’mon kids, let’s explore your gender choices.
And not only are they asking but demanding children be taught this as the new normal.
I am heretical to say this even. I know.
An interesting parallel to this is the printing press and the internet. Religious leaders felt very threatened by the printing press and enacted all kinds of laws to prevent the spread of the printed word. Today, we have govts across the world enacting laws to highly regulate the internet, with govt and its allies enacting all sorts of laws to restrict what information we consume. It failed back then and it will fail now.
An interesting parallel to this is the printing press and the internet. Religious leaders felt very threatened by the printing press and enacted all kinds of laws to prevent the spread of the printed word. Today, we have govts across the world enacting laws to highly regulate the internet, with govt and its allies enacting all sorts of laws to restrict what information we consume. It failed back then and it will fail now.
“But is it possible to disprove God?”
No. As an atheist myself, the best I can offer is an Ockamist methodological argument.
What’s that?
i. The universe’s existence can be explained without recourse to a creating deity.
ii. We ought not to multiply entities unnecessarily
iii. Ergo we ought not to believe in a creating deity.
i. The universe’s existence can be explained without recourse to a creating deity.
ii. We ought not to multiply entities unnecessarily
iii. Ergo we ought not to believe in a creating deity.
What’s that?
Suspect you are right on how many Catholics really believe in transubstantiation but for now it’s a fundamental part of the catechism.
Nonetheless we can be chilled about it as it’s no longer imposed and it’s up the individual. We also can be respectful regarding certain beliefs as they don’t greatly affect oneself, and why, in general, be needlessly rude about someone’s beliefs even if those are bit daft. But the moment such believers, whether religious or some gender ideologist, cross a certain line then they need to accept the push-back.
Good point.
“The problem with religion was back in the day, when it imposed itself on all of society and dominated people in an authoritarian way.”
Woke is doing the same today. It isnt believing in being transgender that is the problem. It is demanding other people stop believing what they know is true.
I can accept that some people, for a myriad of reasons, become confused about gender and need to live life as a different gender than that they were born. I believe we must treat them as equal human beings.
I do not accept that gender is merely a fun choice for all – c’mon kids, let’s explore your gender choices.
And not only are they asking but demanding children be taught this as the new normal.
I am heretical to say this even. I know.
“But is it possible to disprove God?”
No. As an atheist myself, the best I can offer is an Ockamist methodological argument.
Believing in transubstantiation and teaching your child it is true will not result in your depressed teenager deciding they need to undergo surgery to fit their new perceived ideal and physically altering their body in ways that cannot be undone (especially true if their best friend did it, too).
This is why I respect religion but not woke.
This is why I respect religion but not woke.
Unfortunate to be downvoted so much here. The similarities between religion and woke ideology are manifold. The main one being “if you don’t agree with our unproven, unscientific fantasies then you are evil.”
Good point for sure and you can legit argue that I was being hyperbolic – something that annoys me, but here I am being hyperbolic. I’m probably blind to many dubious beliefs people regard as fact. Religion is one. There are probably others.
If pushed, I would probably admit to believing in God – I guess I’m a tepid agnostic – at least in the sense of a higher being. But is it possible to disprove God? I don’t think evolution disproves God. I don’t think the Big Bang Theory does either. An omnipotent being could create both those things.
I’m not sure if transubstantiation is a good example. How many Catholics actually believe this? Some do of course, but I would argue the vast majority of Catholics see it more symbolically, rather than an actual physical change.
The problem with religion was back in the day, when it imposed itself on all of society and dominated people in an authoritarian way. Today, at least in the west, it is more likely to be beneficial, creating a sense of community and positive values that enrich people’s lives.
I would argue that most progressives believe there is no truth, that everything is merely a social construct. Males are males because society has deemed this to be truth, not because of biology.
Point well taken though. Progressives aren’t the only ones who believe in things that simply are not true.
Believing in transubstantiation and teaching your child it is true will not result in your depressed teenager deciding they need to undergo surgery to fit their new perceived ideal and physically altering their body in ways that cannot be undone (especially true if their best friend did it, too).
Unfortunate to be downvoted so much here. The similarities between religion and woke ideology are manifold. The main one being “if you don’t agree with our unproven, unscientific fantasies then you are evil.”
I think CS’s nom de plume says it all—likely a monied leftist who resides in places like San Francisco or Seattle, lives in a protected neighborhood, and votes for the policies that are destroying said cities without having to live with the consequences.
Agree JV and concur CS did overplay the point. But to return to ‘…large swathes of society believe things that simply aren’t true’ – what about religion? Whilst some elements have beneficial effects the majority is utter cobblers but folks believe it and we live with it.
Thus for example – what’s the difference between someone who believes in transubstantiation and someone that whilst they may be born with 2 X Chromosomes they feel their gender is female?
Not much in my view. Harmless so long as not imposed on others.
I think CS’s nom de plume says it all—likely a monied leftist who resides in places like San Francisco or Seattle, lives in a protected neighborhood, and votes for the policies that are destroying said cities without having to live with the consequences.
Geez, another insightful and well-argued position from CS. I’ll say this again. I don’t like Trump. I didn’t like him before he entered politics and I don’t like him now. IMO he’s a sociopathic narcissist. But he’s not the cause of the rot that has infected American politics, he’s a symptom of that rot.
In fact, CS you seem to be a lot like Trump – call people names and don’t really say anything.
They don’t actually believe that men can become women etc. Nobody does. Not even Champagne Sociopath. They’re either adopting what they see as status beliefs, or they’re acquiescing because they have families and mortgages.
“There’s also something terribly wrong when large swathes of society believe things that simply aren’t true”
I suspect that Jimmy doesn’t get the irony in this statement since he will believe anything he hears from the likes of Trump. Comical!
They don’t actually believe that men can become women etc. Nobody does. Not even Champagne Sociopath. They’re either adopting what they see as status beliefs, or they’re acquiescing because they have families and mortgages.
Jules is very triggered! I bet he can’t even provide a coherent definition of “woke” other than “things that annoy Julian”!
Lets give him a few minutes to see what google comes up with for him…
Progressives are using children as canon fodder in some kind of ideological march through the institutions. The adults preaching this religion have no issue causing psychological and physical suffering to
society’s most vulnerable members. It’s gross and creepy.
I generally don’t care what an adult believes, as long as they don’t impose their beliefs on other people. This is certainly not the case with progressives.
There’s also something terribly wrong when large swathes of society believe things that simply aren’t true. When everything becomes a social construct, nothing can be true.
I’m anti-woke in so far as much of woke ideology works against human nature and, in its megalomaniacal quest to quell all forms of oppression real or imagined, human freedoms.
Woke thinking has always existed in one form or another. It’s a mindset, not a coherent set of beliefs – one that was usually only to be found in religious zealots and neo-na**s.
The problem with woke is not the people, even though they are pretty repugnant – it’s how governments and corporations have cleverly co-opted this mindset to bully and harass ordinary citizens and employees. This is not a silly culture war; we are in the grips of a pitiless and tyrannical enemy that sees all forms of human success and flourishing outside itself as a system of competition that must either be eradicated or absorbed into and emasculated by the state apparatus.
If it’s in the New York Slimes, it’s wrong. Follow this principle in your life, and you can never go wrong.
Shall we all guess what branch of the lunatic right wing echo chamber that Sammy gets his news from?!?!?
I’ll start. I think he probably thinks Breitbart has gone too communist so he listens to Steve Bannon’s podcast.
Was I close, Sam?
Boilerplate is boring.
Boilerplate is boring.
Anyone who “follows a principle” tends to be a bigot at best, a half-wit at worst.
You need to be wary of silo-ing yourself. See my short blog on Julie Burchill:
https://ayenaw.com/2023/07/08/the-reliably-boring-julie-burchill/
“Anyone who “follows a principle” tends to be a bigot at best, a half-wit at worst.”
And this is the principle which you follow.
“Anyone who “follows a principle” tends to be a bigot at best, a half-wit at worst.”
And this is the principle which you follow.
Shall we all guess what branch of the lunatic right wing echo chamber that Sammy gets his news from?!?!?
I’ll start. I think he probably thinks Breitbart has gone too communist so he listens to Steve Bannon’s podcast.
Was I close, Sam?
Anyone who “follows a principle” tends to be a bigot at best, a half-wit at worst.
You need to be wary of silo-ing yourself. See my short blog on Julie Burchill:
https://ayenaw.com/2023/07/08/the-reliably-boring-julie-burchill/
If it’s in the New York Slimes, it’s wrong. Follow this principle in your life, and you can never go wrong.
I’m not American but even I can see absolutely clearly that Trump’s success is due to the greed and arrogance of the elites that now control the Democratic Party
It’s astonishing how utterly incapable of self-examination the progressive elites are – on both sides of the Atlantic.
None will even acknowledge to the slightest degree that their selfishness may play a part in phenomena like Brexit or the rise of Trump.
I’m not American but even I can see absolutely clearly that Trump’s success is due to the greed and arrogance of the elites that now control the Democratic Party
It’s astonishing how utterly incapable of self-examination the progressive elites are – on both sides of the Atlantic.
None will even acknowledge to the slightest degree that their selfishness may play a part in phenomena like Brexit or the rise of Trump.
One cannot trust the New York Times on any subject, especially surveys and polls.
They show Trump as having a commanding lead. You think that’s incorrect, and de Santis is miles ahead in reality?
Blatant straw man.
Blatant straw man.
They show Trump as having a commanding lead. You think that’s incorrect, and de Santis is miles ahead in reality?
One cannot trust the New York Times on any subject, especially surveys and polls.
More posts censored by Unherd. I don’t need censors protecting me cranks like CS.
More posts censored by Unherd. I don’t need censors protecting me cranks like CS.
“Donald Trump is crushing Ron DeSantis because MAGA voters don’t care about the culture wars and most want the Florida Governor to lay off woke corporations.” The mainstream media is endlessly capable of intentionally drawing false and absurd conclusions based on carefully phrased poll questions. Without the culture wars there would be no MAGA voters at all.
“Donald Trump is crushing Ron DeSantis because MAGA voters don’t care about the culture wars and most want the Florida Governor to lay off woke corporations.” The mainstream media is endlessly capable of intentionally drawing false and absurd conclusions based on carefully phrased poll questions. Without the culture wars there would be no MAGA voters at all.
A really deceptive poll. All share economic concerns since they can’t print money or force their neighbor to provide their desires. The missing question is purposeful: what exactly are the culture objections? Simple answer: the forcing, exploitation and consequences that follow. Most don’t care what someone does as an individual adult but when that choice becomes a social construct that requires fealty or acquiescence, and minor’s absolute agreement, those of independent mind, not groupies, hold up a caution flag. This so-called survey is all or nothing. It kind of reflects a certain mind set, don’t you think? Followers are good at that, leaders not so much.
A really deceptive poll. All share economic concerns since they can’t print money or force their neighbor to provide their desires. The missing question is purposeful: what exactly are the culture objections? Simple answer: the forcing, exploitation and consequences that follow. Most don’t care what someone does as an individual adult but when that choice becomes a social construct that requires fealty or acquiescence, and minor’s absolute agreement, those of independent mind, not groupies, hold up a caution flag. This so-called survey is all or nothing. It kind of reflects a certain mind set, don’t you think? Followers are good at that, leaders not so much.
Why put Covid and The Economy in the same bin?
Why put Covid and The Economy in the same bin?
Perhaps Republicans have realised that they can boycott Woke corporations themselves and don’t need a Government interface with those corporations to blur the issue?
And are doing so effectively with Disney, Target, Anheuser Busch, etc.
And are doing so effectively with Disney, Target, Anheuser Busch, etc.
Perhaps Republicans have realised that they can boycott Woke corporations themselves and don’t need a Government interface with those corporations to blur the issue?
America has so many equally plausible alternatives to Trump and biden… Snaglepuss, Officer Dibble, Fred Flintstone,, Superman, Popeye?… all have big followings and similar intellectual status?
America has so many equally plausible alternatives to Trump and biden… Snaglepuss, Officer Dibble, Fred Flintstone,, Superman, Popeye?… all have big followings and similar intellectual status?