August 8, 2023 - 6:00pm
A potential face-off on Fox TV between Florida’s Ron DeSantis and California’s Gavin Newsom may not remind anyone of Lincoln versus Douglas, or even Kennedy and Nixon. But it would mark a huge improvement to a political campaign dominated by two old men who are losing touch with reality.
If not too overwhelmed by cultural issues like parental rights, transgender policy, abortion and censorship, the DeSantis-Newsom debate could provide a useful discussion of America’s national future. Indeed, it could provide a debate over two models of governance: one focused on elite industry dominated by a progressive cultural agenda, and one more amenable to grassroots capitalism coupled with an allegiance to the traditional values of the middle class.
In recent years, the relationship between California and Florida has changed dramatically. For the past century, the Golden State has been the clear winner in cutting-edge industries like technology and entertainment, as well as agriculture and aerospace. In comparison, Florida seemed like a giant nursing home, known for the kind of mindlessness so well portrayed in Carl Hiaasen’s novels.
But Florida is no longer just a joke. Despite DeSantis’s attempt to run as Grand Inquisitor of the “woke”, the on-the-ground reality suggests that Florida makes a more compelling economic model than California. The contrast in performance is truly stunning. Florida is generating many more jobs than its rival state and gaining momentum in tech and other fields. Over the past five years, Florida ranked fifth in job growth and California 37th. US News recently ranked the state 29th in economic strength, behind Florida’s #7 ranking.
Considering that California was once seen as a national exemplar, Newsom should also be made to defend how his state spent billions on green investments, transit, education, and promoting dense development, but ended up with America’s highest poverty rate and a stunning lack of upward mobility.
More important still may be demographic changes. For years, the best, brightest and most energetic headed to California for good reason — great universities, ideal weather, and spectacular scenery. But over the past decade, and even more so after the pandemic, the migration patterns have changed, with Florida — along with Texas, Tennessee, the Carolinas and Arizona — making big gains. Between 2020 and 2022, Florida gained 600,000 migrants, the most of any state, while California haemorrhaged over 800,000 — once again the leader, albeit in the wrong direction.
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SubscribeI don’t understand why so many people outside the political left don’t care more about the woke movement. It is destroying the fabric of our society and cannot be separated from economic issues because a dysfunctional society is unlikely to be a financially prosperous society. I’m particularly surprised that more people are incensed about the indoctrination of their children in school.
Many parents themselves are indoctrinated, don’t care, or have no clue.
There are some groups, notably Moms for Liberty, that are fighting the indoctrination taking place in schools: https://www.momsforliberty.org/news-press/
However, its critics have labeled it a right-wing extremist group and are looking for ways to close them down: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jun/06/southern-poverty-law-center-moms-liberty-extremist
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jul/29/moms-for-liberty-irs-tax-complaint
The bloody Guardian! After 40 years of reading the it, I ended my paying subscription 3 years ago, as I was so sick and tired of their insane woke agenda.
likewise!
Unsubscribed from the NYTIMES 5 years ago – after being a 35 year subscriber – and have never looked back. The good news is that there are so many other ways to get the news & commentary today.
Richard Craven had a great quip recently in these pages: a betting game for BBC4, called “skin, or genitals?” — betting on which will be mentioned soonest. I still listen to NPR and alas, like the Guardian & NYT as well, the game is all to relevant . . .
likewise!
Unsubscribed from the NYTIMES 5 years ago – after being a 35 year subscriber – and have never looked back. The good news is that there are so many other ways to get the news & commentary today.
Richard Craven had a great quip recently in these pages: a betting game for BBC4, called “skin, or genitals?” — betting on which will be mentioned soonest. I still listen to NPR and alas, like the Guardian & NYT as well, the game is all to relevant . . .
Yes, those moms who care about the indoctrination of their children are being deemed domestic terrorists!
The “moms” sure sounded extremist and scary to me.
The bloody Guardian! After 40 years of reading the it, I ended my paying subscription 3 years ago, as I was so sick and tired of their insane woke agenda.
Yes, those moms who care about the indoctrination of their children are being deemed domestic terrorists!
The “moms” sure sounded extremist and scary to me.
Speaking for myself, I can say I don’t worry too much about the woke movement by itself because it seems too ridiculous to take seriously and is a young person fad. I view it like ‘flower power’ or ‘peace and love’, a lot of nonsense so young people can feel superior to everyone else that doesn’t really generate much actual political activity other than riling up everyone else who sees it as the nonsense it so clearly is. Like the so called ‘art’ of toddlers finger painting, it is too absurd and pointless to merit the attention of serious people. On the other hand, the philosophies, like CRT, educators, and institutions that have produced the woke movement are of serious concern. It’s too late for the woke generation. They’ll have to learn the hard way that the education system failed them. It’s not too late to reform our education systems, and DeSantis has done a fair bit of that in Florida recently.
Fair point. I guess, under the term “woke”, I’m lumping the manifestations of woke together with the underlying ideologies that gave rise to it. I agree there now seems to be a substantial number of young people totally committed to woke and only a hard dose of reality in the coming years will cure them.
Last month 44% of millennial respondents said “misgendering” should be a crime. (31% thought otherwise; but then 25% weren’t sure.) This aligns with other findings suggesting that generation has shall we say quite a weak understanding of civil rights. They are probably not likely to push back against “woke.”
Last month 44% of millennial respondents said “misgendering” should be a crime. (31% thought otherwise; but then 25% weren’t sure.) This aligns with other findings suggesting that generation has shall we say quite a weak understanding of civil rights. They are probably not likely to push back against “woke.”
Except that people who refuse to go along with the TQ and non binary nonsense demanded by this tiny group of the insanely deluded have ended up losing their jobs.
Just so SJ. In the 1920s it was flappers who scandalised and were said to threaten the fabric of society, in the 50’s it was the Rock and Rollers, the 60’s Hippies, 70’s heavy metal Satanists, 80’s the Gays, 90’s the ravers & drugs – all of whom caused a flurry of outraged letters to the Telegraph and the Times from Sir Herbert Gussett, announcing the death of civilisation. There were hiatuses in the 1930s due to the Great Depression, the 40’s WWII, and the noughties for fundamentalist Islam. All were small groups of young people getting up the noses of the older generation, either as a side effect of being young & having fun, or just because they could. The current gender-bendering movement is different in its preachiness (though the hippies were good at that), its focus on victimisation (exaggerated claims to victimhood whilst bullying others); and it’s thorough lack of fun.
Well said.
Well said.
Fair point. I guess, under the term “woke”, I’m lumping the manifestations of woke together with the underlying ideologies that gave rise to it. I agree there now seems to be a substantial number of young people totally committed to woke and only a hard dose of reality in the coming years will cure them.
Except that people who refuse to go along with the TQ and non binary nonsense demanded by this tiny group of the insanely deluded have ended up losing their jobs.
Just so SJ. In the 1920s it was flappers who scandalised and were said to threaten the fabric of society, in the 50’s it was the Rock and Rollers, the 60’s Hippies, 70’s heavy metal Satanists, 80’s the Gays, 90’s the ravers & drugs – all of whom caused a flurry of outraged letters to the Telegraph and the Times from Sir Herbert Gussett, announcing the death of civilisation. There were hiatuses in the 1930s due to the Great Depression, the 40’s WWII, and the noughties for fundamentalist Islam. All were small groups of young people getting up the noses of the older generation, either as a side effect of being young & having fun, or just because they could. The current gender-bendering movement is different in its preachiness (though the hippies were good at that), its focus on victimisation (exaggerated claims to victimhood whilst bullying others); and it’s thorough lack of fun.
Many parents themselves are indoctrinated, don’t care, or have no clue.
There are some groups, notably Moms for Liberty, that are fighting the indoctrination taking place in schools: https://www.momsforliberty.org/news-press/
However, its critics have labeled it a right-wing extremist group and are looking for ways to close them down: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jun/06/southern-poverty-law-center-moms-liberty-extremist
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jul/29/moms-for-liberty-irs-tax-complaint
Speaking for myself, I can say I don’t worry too much about the woke movement by itself because it seems too ridiculous to take seriously and is a young person fad. I view it like ‘flower power’ or ‘peace and love’, a lot of nonsense so young people can feel superior to everyone else that doesn’t really generate much actual political activity other than riling up everyone else who sees it as the nonsense it so clearly is. Like the so called ‘art’ of toddlers finger painting, it is too absurd and pointless to merit the attention of serious people. On the other hand, the philosophies, like CRT, educators, and institutions that have produced the woke movement are of serious concern. It’s too late for the woke generation. They’ll have to learn the hard way that the education system failed them. It’s not too late to reform our education systems, and DeSantis has done a fair bit of that in Florida recently.
I don’t understand why so many people outside the political left don’t care more about the woke movement. It is destroying the fabric of our society and cannot be separated from economic issues because a dysfunctional society is unlikely to be a financially prosperous society. I’m particularly surprised that more people are incensed about the indoctrination of their children in school.
“Wrong” issues? Teaching toddlers and tweens about trans-sex, taking kids away from their parents, foisting gay culture on young people, men undressing in girls’ locker rooms by calling themselves “women”, beating women at athletics events, governments persecuting religious organizations and demonizing political opponents and organizations, Democrats getting a pass on criminality with quiet, under-the-table deals (Hillary’s email, Hunter Bidens Ukraine board cushy position, etc., Bill Clinton’s picadilloes), while every minor wrong by Republican’s are hoisted high and declared major wrongs — are these not right issues? Are these not real issues? Please.
Hyperbole much? Meanwhile every year we see some “conservative” caught molesting boys, or rape , or molestation…shut up hypocrite
With this outburst I think you should reflect you are on the wrong forum.
It’s a free country right? I know you guys get real comfortable lying to yourselves every day. If you can’t deal with truth you should go away.
It’s a free country right? I know you guys get real comfortable lying to yourselves every day. If you can’t deal with truth you should go away.
Political affiliation is not a predictor of any of those proclivities unlike hysterical, abusive and intolerant ranting on the Internet, which is predominantly the province of leftists.
Well said! So eloquent. To bad its wrong. Political leanings says a lot. education, obesity, gun ownership, covid deaths, race…. alot.
And violence. Especially gun violence. Can’t leave that out.
And violence. Especially gun violence. Can’t leave that out.
Well said! So eloquent. To bad its wrong. Political leanings says a lot. education, obesity, gun ownership, covid deaths, race…. alot.
What “Conservatives” caught molesting boys or raping? Could you give us the details. Your statement doesn’t seem to relate at all to what DeSantis achieved in Florida. There you have a budget surplus, no local income tax and your children don’t get indoctrinated in schools. What’s not to like, especially as a young family with children. He also did pretty well during Covid. What a big improvement to big lock-down Newsom, where you had to wear a mask even outdoor in the park.
Here you go:
https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/columns/2018/06/03/former-oklahoma-senator-sex-with-victim-twice-year-before-police-found-them-hotel-prosecutors-reveal/60521277007/
Wanna go cherry-picking?
Wanna go cherry-picking?
It’s all good stuff as long as you’re a Christian.
Here you go:
https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/columns/2018/06/03/former-oklahoma-senator-sex-with-victim-twice-year-before-police-found-them-hotel-prosecutors-reveal/60521277007/
It’s all good stuff as long as you’re a Christian.
With this outburst I think you should reflect you are on the wrong forum.
Political affiliation is not a predictor of any of those proclivities unlike hysterical, abusive and intolerant ranting on the Internet, which is predominantly the province of leftists.
What “Conservatives” caught molesting boys or raping? Could you give us the details. Your statement doesn’t seem to relate at all to what DeSantis achieved in Florida. There you have a budget surplus, no local income tax and your children don’t get indoctrinated in schools. What’s not to like, especially as a young family with children. He also did pretty well during Covid. What a big improvement to big lock-down Newsom, where you had to wear a mask even outdoor in the park.
Oh please to you.
Hyperbole much? Meanwhile every year we see some “conservative” caught molesting boys, or rape , or molestation…shut up hypocrite
Oh please to you.
“Wrong” issues? Teaching toddlers and tweens about trans-sex, taking kids away from their parents, foisting gay culture on young people, men undressing in girls’ locker rooms by calling themselves “women”, beating women at athletics events, governments persecuting religious organizations and demonizing political opponents and organizations, Democrats getting a pass on criminality with quiet, under-the-table deals (Hillary’s email, Hunter Bidens Ukraine board cushy position, etc., Bill Clinton’s picadilloes), while every minor wrong by Republican’s are hoisted high and declared major wrongs — are these not right issues? Are these not real issues? Please.
I rarely watch debates, but I’ll be tuning into this one. The two states really represent the opposite ends of the ideological spectrum that divides the US right now, and the western world. Not sure why Newsom agreed to Fox hosting the event.
The way Trump is sucking up all the media coverage with his trial, he’s probably that desperate for any media attention.
Trump’s has been the BEST revenue generator for the media, which is why he gets so much attention!
Trump’s has been the BEST revenue generator for the media, which is why he gets so much attention!
Newsom comes across quite well on TV, DeSantis does not. In politics, presentation matters, unfortunately.
You mean Newsom looks better but he’s an empty vessel which most will soon realize.
What, empty vessels always get comeuppance?
What, empty vessels always get comeuppance?
Fair point.
You mean Newsom looks better but he’s an empty vessel which most will soon realize.
Fair point.
The way Trump is sucking up all the media coverage with his trial, he’s probably that desperate for any media attention.
Newsom comes across quite well on TV, DeSantis does not. In politics, presentation matters, unfortunately.
I rarely watch debates, but I’ll be tuning into this one. The two states really represent the opposite ends of the ideological spectrum that divides the US right now, and the western world. Not sure why Newsom agreed to Fox hosting the event.
He needs to appeal to hard right voters because they vote in primaries. Anti-woke crusading is an easy way to do this that won’t cost him in the general election, like emphasizing gun rights or abortion control definitely would, because wokeism is generally loathed outside of its practitioners, who also tend to be in the demographic groups that don’t vote in primaries, or elections at all. The problem is he can’t out-Trump Trump, and the media and the other side has once again done Trump a favor by giving him constant media coverage, aided as usual by the other side who are pushing the Trump indictment because they feel it will be easier to beat Trump than DeSantis or any other pick-a-Republican who might gain the nomination. They’re probably right, but they’re using the same strategy from 2016 and taking the same risk, rationalizing that Joe is not Hillary and Trump has much more baggage now. The media and the powers that be really don’t want to have to run against DeSantis because of all those economic facts that the author points out. You can be sure if, by some miracle, DeSantis wins the nomination, you’ll be seeing those exact statistics repeated over and over again in Republican campaign ads.
Correct on all counts. Trump is the only Republican Biden can beat. DeSantis, Scott, Hayley, Pence; any of them win in a walk over Biden. That’s why the media is so anti-DeSantis, and the Dems are goading the GOP base with all these indictments.
Now we just need the GOP primary voters to wake up and realize that Trump is unelectable.
DeSantis is Trump 2.0 without the criminality. Which just shows you the GOP doesnt stand for anything. Tell me in policy terms what does the GOP stand point based on their actions? Look no further than the Infrastructure Bill that when it came up for vote they bashed it. Then went back to their districts and pretended like they were all for it all along. SMH.
How is de Santis Trump 2.0? The things you read here.
Hyperbole first and foremost. “We’re going to start slitting the throats one by one”. What’s that about? Slaves faired better by learning a trade! Really?
Hyperbole first and foremost. “We’re going to start slitting the throats one by one”. What’s that about? Slaves faired better by learning a trade! Really?
How is de Santis Trump 2.0? The things you read here.
DeSantis is Trump 2.0 without the criminality. Which just shows you the GOP doesnt stand for anything. Tell me in policy terms what does the GOP stand point based on their actions? Look no further than the Infrastructure Bill that when it came up for vote they bashed it. Then went back to their districts and pretended like they were all for it all along. SMH.
Correct on all counts. Trump is the only Republican Biden can beat. DeSantis, Scott, Hayley, Pence; any of them win in a walk over Biden. That’s why the media is so anti-DeSantis, and the Dems are goading the GOP base with all these indictments.
Now we just need the GOP primary voters to wake up and realize that Trump is unelectable.
He needs to appeal to hard right voters because they vote in primaries. Anti-woke crusading is an easy way to do this that won’t cost him in the general election, like emphasizing gun rights or abortion control definitely would, because wokeism is generally loathed outside of its practitioners, who also tend to be in the demographic groups that don’t vote in primaries, or elections at all. The problem is he can’t out-Trump Trump, and the media and the other side has once again done Trump a favor by giving him constant media coverage, aided as usual by the other side who are pushing the Trump indictment because they feel it will be easier to beat Trump than DeSantis or any other pick-a-Republican who might gain the nomination. They’re probably right, but they’re using the same strategy from 2016 and taking the same risk, rationalizing that Joe is not Hillary and Trump has much more baggage now. The media and the powers that be really don’t want to have to run against DeSantis because of all those economic facts that the author points out. You can be sure if, by some miracle, DeSantis wins the nomination, you’ll be seeing those exact statistics repeated over and over again in Republican campaign ads.
De Santis, who is not fast in his feet in debate, should keep it simple and focus all his rhetoric on the state of Californian cities, the crime, squalor and gross inequality, asking viewers if they really want their own neighbourhoods to go that way.
De Santis, who is not fast in his feet in debate, should keep it simple and focus all his rhetoric on the state of Californian cities, the crime, squalor and gross inequality, asking viewers if they really want their own neighbourhoods to go that way.
The author is wrong, that the “anti woke crusade” appeals primarily to “hardliners”. Many young people with children are moving away from CA, because of the woke agenda being indoctrinated in schools.
People can not just up and move so easily . Kotkin is correct.
2 colleagues of my son, who lives in LA, moved to Tennessee. It isn’t so difficult.
Oops! I accidentaly upvoted you. Yours was an ignorant comment. Moving is a tremendous upheaval in many ways and requires a lot of money, new job, new schools, new friends leaving family. It goes on and on. It’s another matter when you’re young.
I am not ignorant. Look at the stats how many young families moved away from CA. Moving is difficult with a young family, but I moved with my children several times between the States and Europe. I have two American sons, one moved in the last 10 years 3 times.
I am not ignorant. Look at the stats how many young families moved away from CA. Moving is difficult with a young family, but I moved with my children several times between the States and Europe. I have two American sons, one moved in the last 10 years 3 times.
Oops! I accidentaly upvoted you. Yours was an ignorant comment. Moving is a tremendous upheaval in many ways and requires a lot of money, new job, new schools, new friends leaving family. It goes on and on. It’s another matter when you’re young.
2 colleagues of my son, who lives in LA, moved to Tennessee. It isn’t so difficult.
People can not just up and move so easily . Kotkin is correct.
The author is wrong, that the “anti woke crusade” appeals primarily to “hardliners”. Many young people with children are moving away from CA, because of the woke agenda being indoctrinated in schools.