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Gary Lineker doesn’t understand the Holocaust

Blocking out the criticism. Credit: Getty

March 9, 2023 - 2:24pm

It’s like clockwork. Every few months the government announces a new plan to tighten immigration policy and then, within seconds, you find ‘1930s Germany’ trending on Twitter. From the moment a picture of the Prime Minister’s flashy ‘Stop the Boats’ podium emerged, it became obvious what the next few days of online discourse would consist of. 

It is Match of the Day host Gary Lineker’s belief that the Home Secretary’s language, when setting out her plans for the Government’s asylum policy, was ‘not dissimilar to that used by Germany in the 30s’. Those who make such claims ought to be mocked, aside from anything else, for the apparent shallowness of their arsenal of cultural references.

But why are critics of the government so quick to reach for the rise of Nazism? Such analogies tend to be rooted in what could be described as ‘Holocaust-as-civics-lesson’, as distinct from ‘Holocaust-as-history’. The latter seeks to understand the catastrophes of the twentieth century in their own terms, as complex and contingent historical events, whose underlying causes were specific to their time. ‘Holocaust-as-civics-lesson’, however, reduces the entire point of learning about the Holocaust to ‘Never again’.

According to that view, the story of Hitler is a kind of cautionary tale: one learns about it simply so that one can ‘recognise’ the hallmarks of fascism in one’s everyday life and ‘call them out’. This explains not only why people like Lineker make the analogies they do, but also why they feel so self-satisfied as they do it. In short, there can be no surprise that people use the Holocaust as a blunt rhetorical tool, because they believe that the purpose of learning about the Holocaust is to use it as a blunt rhetorical tool.

To contort the history of 1930s Germany into an analogy for 2020s Britain, one has to do and say some very strange things. It is untrue, for example, that Nazi rhetoric was ‘insidious’ or ‘subtle’, as though they ever bothered to hide their violent hatred of Jews. Likewise, the British press is in no way reminiscent ­— no matter what Alastair Campbell tells you — of the Nazi press: turn to any page of Der Stürmer and you would have found things much nastier than you’ll ever get in the Daily Mail.

The problem with ‘Holocaust-as-civics-lesson’, like the problem of treating the collapse of Weimar Germany as a parable, is that it means that the Holocaust has to be ‘updated’ to reflect present political concerns.

There are many things that the Holocaust wasn’t. It wasn’t about immigration, for one thing: most of the massacred Jews had lived where they lived for decades, if not centuries, and even the most impeccable assimilation didn’t spare them from the camps. Nor was it about citizenship. Jews weren’t persecuted because they weren’t citizens: they were stripped of their citizenship because they were Jews. Most importantly, it wasn’t really about ‘language’ at all (unless we’re talking about the language of blood purity). Insofar as ‘dehumanising language’ played a role, it was much less significant than legal persecution and street violence, both of which were already under way from the moment Hitler assumed power.

To make the ‘moral lesson’ of the Holocaust work for the modern day, its causes have to be abstracted. The Holocaust itself must somehow be made universal and timeless, a generic ‘persecution of outsiders’. But ‘Holocaust-as-history’ also matters. As memories of the atrocity fade away, we cannot allow such abstractions to obscure the historical reality of what the Holocaust was.


Samuel Rubinstein is a History student at Trinity College, Cambridge.
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Mike F
Mike F
1 year ago

Yes. And now we have Lineker being paraded all over the media as some kind of martyr who stands up against a neo-Nazi Tory Government. The discussion becomes about whether he should be allowed to make political statements, rather than how stupid and insulting those statements are. And, rather than ridicule being heaped on his musings, he is being held aloft as a beacon of free speech, like some kind of sporting Charlie Hebdo.
Lineker needs to be reminded of Godwin’s Law before he posts his next trite little tweet.

Matt M
Matt M
1 year ago
Reply to  Mike F

Rishi Sunak will be jumping for joy. Labour are trying to maintain discipline and avoid appearing to be in favour of open borders but their idiot supporters, like Linekar, can’t help but virtue signal.
The British public know what time it is. Linekar is probably worth 10 points in the polls for the Conservatives.

Last edited 1 year ago by Matt M
Steve Murray
Steve Murray
1 year ago
Reply to  Matt M

Indeed. I’m not sure the English Channel can be seen as blue, but if the Conservatives were looking for “clear blue water” to set them apart at the next election, the signs that this policy is at least beginning to work in some meaningful sense would achieve that.
On the back of the NI initiative, and also signs that strikes are being brought to a conclusion, suddenly a gap in the clouds may make the water look a bit more blue for Sunak.
As for Lineker, he’s doing a great job of hammering nails into the coffin marked “BBC Licence Fee”.

j watson
j watson
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve Murray

The differentiation point is valid and clearly part of the policy intent. But if the return rate doesn’t change much it could become a big own goal.
There hasn’t been much yet to assure on that at all.

Susan Grabston
Susan Grabston
1 year ago
Reply to  j watson

Yes. The issue has been left for so long that nothing short of results will work.. i do find myself wondering when voters will pick up on the even bigger issue – permited migrstiin running at 504k last year. Housing is becoming a critical issue in our borough.

j watson
j watson
1 year ago
Reply to  Susan Grabston

There are multiple reasons for the housing shortage SG and important we don’t blame all that on legal migrants or asylum seekers. But on the latter were we to be hearing about the rapid construction of detention centres, further investment in high calibre processing staff and formal ‘return’ agreements with other countries we would have a sense of potential competency increasing. Instead we get continual clickbait headlines about ‘illegals’.

Last edited 1 year ago by j watson
B Emery
B Emery
1 year ago
Reply to  j watson

I have four years and counting until my rental is demolished. Its been sold to massive developers. If we buy now, negative equity and spiking interest rates are a real danger. We can’t wait much longer. Rents around here are now ridiculous. People like us need solutions NOW. There was a bit on radio two the other day about this issue. So many like us Watson. We can’t just keep building detention centres. That’s not good for anyone.
Why can’t these ngo things and charities that rinse through hundreds of millions of dollars work with government and set these people up back home properly? Or something constructive like that?

Andrew Dalton
Andrew Dalton
1 year ago
Reply to  B Emery

Because if you’re not part of the solution, there’s plenty of money to be made out of prolonging the problem.

j watson
j watson
1 year ago
Reply to  Andrew Dalton

And plenty of votes from wiping up fear and hatred.

B Emery
B Emery
1 year ago
Reply to  j watson

Excuse me. Typical of the Left these days. I want to be able to buy a property in my own country and that is instilling fear and hatred is it? F*ck. Off.

j watson
j watson
1 year ago
Reply to  B Emery

But you are wrongly blaming that on asylum seekers, albeit that is what Braverman et al probably would like you believe.
When Braverman says 100m would be eligible and they are coming now, firstly it’s total tripe, secondly it’s deliberately designed to generate fear (note: across the whole of Europe less than 1m asylum claims were made last year so where the heck does she get 100m coming to Dover now!)

B Emery
B Emery
1 year ago
Reply to  j watson

If you think I am stupid enough to believe anything else coming out that tory government you are very much mistaken. They have so much to answer for now this would go to pages.
I do not solely blame asylum seekers, I made it very clear to you the other day the idiots I blame for this. I blame the governments and police that do nothing about the organised crime rings running it all. I blame the likes of bezos and gates who have enormous mines in Africa, preach like f*ck to us, and yet they seem to do nothing for these asylum seekers.
I blame the governments that did not enforce our border laws in the first place.

Last edited 1 year ago by B Emery
Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  B Emery

You missed out the main culprits.. British Empire brutes who looted those countries, ruined their economies and insisted the all speak English! If they’d had any foresight they’d have taught ’em all French and Spanish wouldn’t they!
When you ruin your neighbours’ economy you have to expect them to turn up to your home with a begging bowl it’s payback time! Btw I just built my home for €35k – join the dots on that one!!

B Emery
B Emery
1 year ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

Nothing to do with me Mr O Mahony. Many nations have done a bit of imperial conquering at some point. It was just the thing to do.

B Emery
B Emery
1 year ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

Nothing to do with me Mr O Mahony. Many nations have done a bit of imperial conquering at some point. It was just the thing to do.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  B Emery

You missed out the main culprits.. British Empire brutes who looted those countries, ruined their economies and insisted the all speak English! If they’d had any foresight they’d have taught ’em all French and Spanish wouldn’t they!
When you ruin your neighbours’ economy you have to expect them to turn up to your home with a begging bowl it’s payback time! Btw I just built my home for €35k – join the dots on that one!!

B Emery
B Emery
1 year ago
Reply to  j watson

If you think I am stupid enough to believe anything else coming out that tory government you are very much mistaken. They have so much to answer for now this would go to pages.
I do not solely blame asylum seekers, I made it very clear to you the other day the idiots I blame for this. I blame the governments and police that do nothing about the organised crime rings running it all. I blame the likes of bezos and gates who have enormous mines in Africa, preach like f*ck to us, and yet they seem to do nothing for these asylum seekers.
I blame the governments that did not enforce our border laws in the first place.

Last edited 1 year ago by B Emery
Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  B Emery

22 upticks for a hate speech. All 22 of you should be thoroughly ashamed.
And you Emery need to join the dots! Do you really think it is the migrants that are outbidding you on your failed house buying? Your beloved Tories gave the filthy rich £600bn.. what do you suppose they did, and continue to do, with all that dosh? No? still don’t get it? ..they’re buying all the bloody houses init?

B Emery
B Emery
1 year ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

Hi. Oh I have never been directly accused of hate speech before, how exciting. Makes a change.
I explained to Watson the problem with housing the other day and small boats did not come into it.
But I think building housing is a better idea than building detention centres.
See my other posts. The tory government has not escaped my criticism.

B Emery
B Emery
1 year ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

Hi. Oh I have never been directly accused of hate speech before, how exciting. Makes a change.
I explained to Watson the problem with housing the other day and small boats did not come into it.
But I think building housing is a better idea than building detention centres.
See my other posts. The tory government has not escaped my criticism.

j watson
j watson
1 year ago
Reply to  B Emery

But you are wrongly blaming that on asylum seekers, albeit that is what Braverman et al probably would like you believe.
When Braverman says 100m would be eligible and they are coming now, firstly it’s total tripe, secondly it’s deliberately designed to generate fear (note: across the whole of Europe less than 1m asylum claims were made last year so where the heck does she get 100m coming to Dover now!)

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  B Emery

22 upticks for a hate speech. All 22 of you should be thoroughly ashamed.
And you Emery need to join the dots! Do you really think it is the migrants that are outbidding you on your failed house buying? Your beloved Tories gave the filthy rich £600bn.. what do you suppose they did, and continue to do, with all that dosh? No? still don’t get it? ..they’re buying all the bloody houses init?

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  j watson

I believe that is the whole point. The Tories are hardly going to thrive on their great economic achievements are they? So as in 1930s Germany, scapegoats have to be found. Linekar has a point!

B Emery
B Emery
1 year ago
Reply to  j watson

Excuse me. Typical of the Left these days. I want to be able to buy a property in my own country and that is instilling fear and hatred is it? F*ck. Off.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  j watson

I believe that is the whole point. The Tories are hardly going to thrive on their great economic achievements are they? So as in 1930s Germany, scapegoats have to be found. Linekar has a point!

j watson
j watson
1 year ago
Reply to  Andrew Dalton

And plenty of votes from wiping up fear and hatred.

j watson
j watson
1 year ago
Reply to  B Emery

You need to go out to the really massive refugee camps round the world and see the NGOs running those and looking after millions of people. We are getting a trickle.
I still think though we need to manage our trickle effectively and humanely. Most will need to be returned. Currently though we aren’t investing (other than giving the French £480m which’ll make v little difference) in proper facilities and staffing to greatly reduce the numbers here left in limbo round the country. Instead they just want to chuck you a ‘distraction’ and someone to blame.

B Emery
B Emery
1 year ago
Reply to  j watson

You need to go out to the really massive refugee camps round the world and see the NGOs running those and looking after millions of people

Sources please.

Doug Pingel
Doug Pingel
1 year ago
Reply to  B Emery

BBC TV News just for starters! Various Current Affairs on different TV channels.

B Emery
B Emery
1 year ago
Reply to  Doug Pingel

Yes. Many other ‘news’ outlets and programmes could be mentioned.

Last edited 1 year ago by B Emery
B Emery
B Emery
1 year ago
Reply to  Doug Pingel

Yes. Many other ‘news’ outlets and programmes could be mentioned.

Last edited 1 year ago by B Emery
Doug Pingel
Doug Pingel
1 year ago
Reply to  B Emery

BBC TV News just for starters! Various Current Affairs on different TV channels.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  j watson

Yes! You’d get a few nice detention centres for €480m wouldn’t you?
The UK takes in far fewer migrants than similar counties around the world. Little Ireland has a million non-Irish born now.. that’s +25% on our indigenous population. If the UK had a similar number that would be 20 million! Other comparable countries take far more migrants than the UK and moan a lot less! Btw our migrants have contributed greatly to Ireland in economic and cultural terms. Of course we too have our small minority of hateful, xenophobic racists but we ignore them!

B Emery
B Emery
1 year ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

Sources please.
Does Ireland have a housing crisis like England?
Is Ireland taking small boats from across the Channel?

B Emery
B Emery
1 year ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

Sources please.
Does Ireland have a housing crisis like England?
Is Ireland taking small boats from across the Channel?

B Emery
B Emery
1 year ago
Reply to  j watson

You need to go out to the really massive refugee camps round the world and see the NGOs running those and looking after millions of people

Sources please.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  j watson

Yes! You’d get a few nice detention centres for €480m wouldn’t you?
The UK takes in far fewer migrants than similar counties around the world. Little Ireland has a million non-Irish born now.. that’s +25% on our indigenous population. If the UK had a similar number that would be 20 million! Other comparable countries take far more migrants than the UK and moan a lot less! Btw our migrants have contributed greatly to Ireland in economic and cultural terms. Of course we too have our small minority of hateful, xenophobic racists but we ignore them!

Andrew Dalton
Andrew Dalton
1 year ago
Reply to  B Emery

Because if you’re not part of the solution, there’s plenty of money to be made out of prolonging the problem.

j watson
j watson
1 year ago
Reply to  B Emery

You need to go out to the really massive refugee camps round the world and see the NGOs running those and looking after millions of people. We are getting a trickle.
I still think though we need to manage our trickle effectively and humanely. Most will need to be returned. Currently though we aren’t investing (other than giving the French £480m which’ll make v little difference) in proper facilities and staffing to greatly reduce the numbers here left in limbo round the country. Instead they just want to chuck you a ‘distraction’ and someone to blame.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  j watson

Correct! Instead of building detention centres why not get the migrants to build homes? Some years ago an architect designed a simple house that anyone with minimal skills and scant supervision could build. I think it’s called joining the dots!

B Emery
B Emery
1 year ago
Reply to  j watson

I have four years and counting until my rental is demolished. Its been sold to massive developers. If we buy now, negative equity and spiking interest rates are a real danger. We can’t wait much longer. Rents around here are now ridiculous. People like us need solutions NOW. There was a bit on radio two the other day about this issue. So many like us Watson. We can’t just keep building detention centres. That’s not good for anyone.
Why can’t these ngo things and charities that rinse through hundreds of millions of dollars work with government and set these people up back home properly? Or something constructive like that?

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  j watson

Correct! Instead of building detention centres why not get the migrants to build homes? Some years ago an architect designed a simple house that anyone with minimal skills and scant supervision could build. I think it’s called joining the dots!

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  Susan Grabston

If you conquer other peoples countries, loot their resources impoverish their people and insist they speak English guess what happens? If the British Empire brutes had any foresight they’d have insisted the natives speak French wouldn’tthey!
It’s payback time: suck it up!

j watson
j watson
1 year ago
Reply to  Susan Grabston

There are multiple reasons for the housing shortage SG and important we don’t blame all that on legal migrants or asylum seekers. But on the latter were we to be hearing about the rapid construction of detention centres, further investment in high calibre processing staff and formal ‘return’ agreements with other countries we would have a sense of potential competency increasing. Instead we get continual clickbait headlines about ‘illegals’.

Last edited 1 year ago by j watson
Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  Susan Grabston

If you conquer other peoples countries, loot their resources impoverish their people and insist they speak English guess what happens? If the British Empire brutes had any foresight they’d have insisted the natives speak French wouldn’tthey!
It’s payback time: suck it up!

Susan Grabston
Susan Grabston
1 year ago
Reply to  j watson

Yes. The issue has been left for so long that nothing short of results will work.. i do find myself wondering when voters will pick up on the even bigger issue – permited migrstiin running at 504k last year. Housing is becoming a critical issue in our borough.

Diane Tasker
Diane Tasker
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve Murray

Love your final riposte!

j watson
j watson
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve Murray

The differentiation point is valid and clearly part of the policy intent. But if the return rate doesn’t change much it could become a big own goal.
There hasn’t been much yet to assure on that at all.

Diane Tasker
Diane Tasker
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve Murray

Love your final riposte!

Richard Craven
Richard Craven
1 year ago
Reply to  Matt M

Excellent point.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  Matt M

Linekar is no Labour supporter.. if you assume all humanitarian minded people are automatically Left wing that says more about you!

Steve Murray
Steve Murray
1 year ago
Reply to  Matt M

Indeed. I’m not sure the English Channel can be seen as blue, but if the Conservatives were looking for “clear blue water” to set them apart at the next election, the signs that this policy is at least beginning to work in some meaningful sense would achieve that.
On the back of the NI initiative, and also signs that strikes are being brought to a conclusion, suddenly a gap in the clouds may make the water look a bit more blue for Sunak.
As for Lineker, he’s doing a great job of hammering nails into the coffin marked “BBC Licence Fee”.

Richard Craven
Richard Craven
1 year ago
Reply to  Matt M

Excellent point.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  Matt M

Linekar is no Labour supporter.. if you assume all humanitarian minded people are automatically Left wing that says more about you!

Josh Allan
Josh Allan
1 year ago
Reply to  Mike F

Makes you wonder what’s worse about our current culture: the amplification of intellectual mediocrities to positions of socio-political authority, or the contagious vileness of social media?

j watson
j watson
1 year ago
Reply to  Josh Allan

Indeed. Look at likes of Braverman and Johnson. How do these incompetents get there.?

Aidan Trimble
Aidan Trimble
1 year ago
Reply to  j watson

Right on cue.

B Emery
B Emery
1 year ago
Reply to  j watson

What and starmer isn’t a slippery lawyer type. Pro nato. Great. Yeah I look forward to that one. Blair mark two.

j watson
j watson
1 year ago
Reply to  B Emery

Putting particular politics aside, the question is perhaps who’s offering some competency? That’s what we need isn’t it?

B Emery
B Emery
1 year ago
Reply to  j watson

No one is offering competency. That’s the problem.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  B Emery

What do you suggest yourself? Apart from King Cnut waves machines I mean?

B Emery
B Emery
1 year ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

Lmao. I don’t know. I feel like I should start working on it. Nobody else seems to be.
That’s why we have people in government with ridiculous amounts of qualifications to solve this sh*t. And international bodies like the un to do humanitarian things. And massive charities and NGOs.
Apparently that is too much of an ask of all of them right now though.

B Emery
B Emery
1 year ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

Lmao. I don’t know. I feel like I should start working on it. Nobody else seems to be.
That’s why we have people in government with ridiculous amounts of qualifications to solve this sh*t. And international bodies like the un to do humanitarian things. And massive charities and NGOs.
Apparently that is too much of an ask of all of them right now though.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  B Emery

What do you suggest yourself? Apart from King Cnut waves machines I mean?

B Emery
B Emery
1 year ago
Reply to  j watson

No one is offering competency. That’s the problem.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  B Emery

Sadly, even a Blair mk2 would be a huge improvement on the current idiots!

B Emery
B Emery
1 year ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

Not if he’s as war happy as Blair.

B Emery
B Emery
1 year ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

Not if he’s as war happy as Blair.

j watson
j watson
1 year ago
Reply to  B Emery

Putting particular politics aside, the question is perhaps who’s offering some competency? That’s what we need isn’t it?

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  B Emery

Sadly, even a Blair mk2 would be a huge improvement on the current idiots!

Aidan Trimble
Aidan Trimble
1 year ago
Reply to  j watson

Right on cue.

B Emery
B Emery
1 year ago
Reply to  j watson

What and starmer isn’t a slippery lawyer type. Pro nato. Great. Yeah I look forward to that one. Blair mark two.

j watson
j watson
1 year ago
Reply to  Josh Allan

Indeed. Look at likes of Braverman and Johnson. How do these incompetents get there.?

Nicky Samengo-Turner
Nicky Samengo-Turner
1 year ago
Reply to  Mike F

He thought that the F1 driver Massa was what Hamilton had to call his bosses!

Andrew Wise
Andrew Wise
1 year ago
Reply to  Mike F

Godwin’s Law is the salient point – when commentators are reduced to making Nazi comparisons the discussion is over. Its run out of intellectual argument and descended into meaningless insults.
Which I think it the point the article is making in a roundabout way

Jeremy Bray
Jeremy Bray
1 year ago
Reply to  Mike F

A follow up comment. I spotted that the Sun reported on Sunday as follows:

“MATCH OF THE DAY last night received its largest audience since November.
The programme was watched by 2.58 million people – up nearly 500,000 from last week’s show.”

It seems Lineker and his fellow pundits are actually of negative value to Match of the Day. Time for the BBC to take a hard line and save themselves a raft of unnecessary payments to these pundits.

They might also consider turning over the news to be read by chat bots and replace opinionated newsreaders.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  Mike F

I disagree. As well as normalising hate speech the government+ is now shutting down opposition.. if that is reminiscent of Germany in the 1930s (long before the Holocaust!) then God knows what is. Slippery slopes must be called out as early as possible, ie before it is too late!

Matt M
Matt M
1 year ago
Reply to  Mike F

Rishi Sunak will be jumping for joy. Labour are trying to maintain discipline and avoid appearing to be in favour of open borders but their idiot supporters, like Linekar, can’t help but virtue signal.
The British public know what time it is. Linekar is probably worth 10 points in the polls for the Conservatives.

Last edited 1 year ago by Matt M
Josh Allan
Josh Allan
1 year ago
Reply to  Mike F

Makes you wonder what’s worse about our current culture: the amplification of intellectual mediocrities to positions of socio-political authority, or the contagious vileness of social media?

Nicky Samengo-Turner
Nicky Samengo-Turner
1 year ago
Reply to  Mike F

He thought that the F1 driver Massa was what Hamilton had to call his bosses!

Andrew Wise
Andrew Wise
1 year ago
Reply to  Mike F

Godwin’s Law is the salient point – when commentators are reduced to making Nazi comparisons the discussion is over. Its run out of intellectual argument and descended into meaningless insults.
Which I think it the point the article is making in a roundabout way

Jeremy Bray
Jeremy Bray
1 year ago
Reply to  Mike F

A follow up comment. I spotted that the Sun reported on Sunday as follows:

“MATCH OF THE DAY last night received its largest audience since November.
The programme was watched by 2.58 million people – up nearly 500,000 from last week’s show.”

It seems Lineker and his fellow pundits are actually of negative value to Match of the Day. Time for the BBC to take a hard line and save themselves a raft of unnecessary payments to these pundits.

They might also consider turning over the news to be read by chat bots and replace opinionated newsreaders.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  Mike F

I disagree. As well as normalising hate speech the government+ is now shutting down opposition.. if that is reminiscent of Germany in the 1930s (long before the Holocaust!) then God knows what is. Slippery slopes must be called out as early as possible, ie before it is too late!

Mike F
Mike F
1 year ago

Yes. And now we have Lineker being paraded all over the media as some kind of martyr who stands up against a neo-Nazi Tory Government. The discussion becomes about whether he should be allowed to make political statements, rather than how stupid and insulting those statements are. And, rather than ridicule being heaped on his musings, he is being held aloft as a beacon of free speech, like some kind of sporting Charlie Hebdo.
Lineker needs to be reminded of Godwin’s Law before he posts his next trite little tweet.

Chris Wheatley
Chris Wheatley
1 year ago

I feel that the Holocaust reference merely shows that Mr Lineker is a bit lacking in education and common sense. He could well be rich but it doesn’t mean that he knows anything.
Remember that he has been a mollycoddled footballer for most of his life. He has driven cars and lived in houses that we could never afford. Everything has been done for him apart from the football bit. How could someone without real experience of life know what it means to live in Rochdale, Merthyr, Wakefield, Rotherham etc?
The problem is not Lineker but the BBC. By not stepping in and controlling their presenters they are effectively agreeing with them. This whole fiasco is a test of the BBC. They could drop Lineker like a brick if they wanted to. He only gets away with it because he is supported by his employer, not because he actually knows anything.

John Dellingby
John Dellingby
1 year ago
Reply to  Chris Wheatley

While I understand the view that he is a sports presenter rather than a political one, the sheer audacity to compare a Western government (and arguably one of the most ethnically diverse we’ve ever had) to an ideology that was responsible for places like Auschwitz and a wide variety of other horrors, is clearly going too far. For that alone, he should be told to retract that particular bit or resign.

j watson
j watson
1 year ago
Reply to  John Dellingby

He compared the rubbish about 100 million ending up shortly in Dover with ‘fear of the other’ incendiary language in 30s Germany.
Not a link I’d have made but certainly not unhelpful to make us ponder how important language is. Also fascinating nobody bothering to point out Braverman was talking tripe as usual.

Warren Trees
Warren Trees
1 year ago
Reply to  John Dellingby

And what an insult to Jews!

j watson
j watson
1 year ago
Reply to  John Dellingby

He compared the rubbish about 100 million ending up shortly in Dover with ‘fear of the other’ incendiary language in 30s Germany.
Not a link I’d have made but certainly not unhelpful to make us ponder how important language is. Also fascinating nobody bothering to point out Braverman was talking tripe as usual.

Warren Trees
Warren Trees
1 year ago
Reply to  John Dellingby

And what an insult to Jews!

AC Harper
AC Harper
1 year ago
Reply to  Chris Wheatley

I agree. It’s a comparatively trivial additional point that I will not willingly buy any Walkers Crisps products until Lineker has no relationship with them. Unfortunately dropping the TV licence is not such an easy choice in my house hold.

j watson
j watson
1 year ago
Reply to  AC Harper

What a sacrifice and you thought to share it with us.

j watson
j watson
1 year ago
Reply to  AC Harper

What a sacrifice and you thought to share it with us.

Richard Craven
Richard Craven
1 year ago
Reply to  Chris Wheatley

“How could someone without real experience of life know what it means to live in Rochdale, Merthyr, Wakefield, Rotherham etc?”
I come from a much more privileged background than Lineker, and find myself in complete sympathy with the people of these places.

j watson
j watson
1 year ago
Reply to  Chris Wheatley

Jeez you lot will be complaining about Woke crushing free speech tmoro

AL Crowe
AL Crowe
1 year ago
Reply to  j watson

If we want to be truly honest, neither side of politics comes out looking especially good when it comes to freedom of speech. “Freedom of speech is not freedom from consequences” is the oft heard cry from the left side of politics when the left are calling for censure or cancellation of someone who has said or done something they abhor, yet the right are often just as quick to demand someone is sacked (as we see with Lineker) when it is someone saying something they abhor.

B Emery
B Emery
1 year ago
Reply to  AL Crowe

No. Its not about freedom of speech. The BBC is not supposed to be biased. Lineker should not be criticising government policy whichever side it comes from. Unbiased.

Last edited 1 year ago by B Emery
AL Crowe
AL Crowe
1 year ago
Reply to  B Emery

I don’t think this specific incident is entirely about freedom of speech, but equally, I gave the BBC up as a bad job years ago, so consider it rather pointless to try to re-instill political neutrality into an organisation that is stuffed full of wannabe activists.

I don’t watch TV though, so the BBC as an organisation means little to me and I don’t pay a penny towards it.

j watson
j watson
1 year ago
Reply to  B Emery

Do you think Sugar should have been suspended when he said ‘Vote Tory’ in 2019? (and thus the Apprentice suspended). Do you think having a BBC Chair who’s help sort out Bojo’s loans means he ought to be suspended for lack of impartiality?
Come on spare us the inconsistency. He’s a sports pundit not presenter of the 6 O’clock News.

B Emery
B Emery
1 year ago
Reply to  j watson

Yes. If people are not sticking to the rule that the BBC should not be biased they should be sacked. If he wants to say what he likes he can go work for anyone else that isn’t the BBC and do that.
But if he works for the BBC he should be unbiased.

B Emery
B Emery
1 year ago
Reply to  j watson

Yes. If people are not sticking to the rule that the BBC should not be biased they should be sacked. If he wants to say what he likes he can go work for anyone else that isn’t the BBC and do that.
But if he works for the BBC he should be unbiased.

AL Crowe
AL Crowe
1 year ago
Reply to  B Emery

I don’t think this specific incident is entirely about freedom of speech, but equally, I gave the BBC up as a bad job years ago, so consider it rather pointless to try to re-instill political neutrality into an organisation that is stuffed full of wannabe activists.

I don’t watch TV though, so the BBC as an organisation means little to me and I don’t pay a penny towards it.

j watson
j watson
1 year ago
Reply to  B Emery

Do you think Sugar should have been suspended when he said ‘Vote Tory’ in 2019? (and thus the Apprentice suspended). Do you think having a BBC Chair who’s help sort out Bojo’s loans means he ought to be suspended for lack of impartiality?
Come on spare us the inconsistency. He’s a sports pundit not presenter of the 6 O’clock News.

B Emery
B Emery
1 year ago
Reply to  AL Crowe

No. Its not about freedom of speech. The BBC is not supposed to be biased. Lineker should not be criticising government policy whichever side it comes from. Unbiased.

Last edited 1 year ago by B Emery
AL Crowe
AL Crowe
1 year ago
Reply to  j watson

If we want to be truly honest, neither side of politics comes out looking especially good when it comes to freedom of speech. “Freedom of speech is not freedom from consequences” is the oft heard cry from the left side of politics when the left are calling for censure or cancellation of someone who has said or done something they abhor, yet the right are often just as quick to demand someone is sacked (as we see with Lineker) when it is someone saying something they abhor.

Warren Trees
Warren Trees
1 year ago
Reply to  Chris Wheatley

Apparently, only a few of us can see through these “celebrity” commentators. It feels like the jesters have taken over the courts.

Elaine Giedrys-Leeper
Elaine Giedrys-Leeper
1 year ago
Reply to  Chris Wheatley

His son actually / almost died of leukaemia, I forget which but either way it hasn’t been all wine and roses for Mr Lineker

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  Chris Wheatley

You’re right.. Lineker knows very little.. but I will say he knows hate speech and diversionary scapegoating when he hears it
It’s something I suppose!

John Dellingby
John Dellingby
1 year ago
Reply to  Chris Wheatley

While I understand the view that he is a sports presenter rather than a political one, the sheer audacity to compare a Western government (and arguably one of the most ethnically diverse we’ve ever had) to an ideology that was responsible for places like Auschwitz and a wide variety of other horrors, is clearly going too far. For that alone, he should be told to retract that particular bit or resign.

AC Harper
AC Harper
1 year ago
Reply to  Chris Wheatley

I agree. It’s a comparatively trivial additional point that I will not willingly buy any Walkers Crisps products until Lineker has no relationship with them. Unfortunately dropping the TV licence is not such an easy choice in my house hold.

Richard Craven
Richard Craven
1 year ago
Reply to  Chris Wheatley

“How could someone without real experience of life know what it means to live in Rochdale, Merthyr, Wakefield, Rotherham etc?”
I come from a much more privileged background than Lineker, and find myself in complete sympathy with the people of these places.

j watson
j watson
1 year ago
Reply to  Chris Wheatley

Jeez you lot will be complaining about Woke crushing free speech tmoro

Warren Trees
Warren Trees
1 year ago
Reply to  Chris Wheatley

Apparently, only a few of us can see through these “celebrity” commentators. It feels like the jesters have taken over the courts.

Elaine Giedrys-Leeper
Elaine Giedrys-Leeper
1 year ago
Reply to  Chris Wheatley

His son actually / almost died of leukaemia, I forget which but either way it hasn’t been all wine and roses for Mr Lineker

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  Chris Wheatley

You’re right.. Lineker knows very little.. but I will say he knows hate speech and diversionary scapegoating when he hears it
It’s something I suppose!

Chris Wheatley
Chris Wheatley
1 year ago

I feel that the Holocaust reference merely shows that Mr Lineker is a bit lacking in education and common sense. He could well be rich but it doesn’t mean that he knows anything.
Remember that he has been a mollycoddled footballer for most of his life. He has driven cars and lived in houses that we could never afford. Everything has been done for him apart from the football bit. How could someone without real experience of life know what it means to live in Rochdale, Merthyr, Wakefield, Rotherham etc?
The problem is not Lineker but the BBC. By not stepping in and controlling their presenters they are effectively agreeing with them. This whole fiasco is a test of the BBC. They could drop Lineker like a brick if they wanted to. He only gets away with it because he is supported by his employer, not because he actually knows anything.

Jeremy Bray
Jeremy Bray
1 year ago

If Lineker were a prominent historian that had dredged up stories from Der Sturmer raging against a flood of refugees seeking to get into Germany he would have an analogy with today and a very novel discovery of a previously unknown pre-war event and it might be worth listening to him. However, instead Lineker is a pretty ignorant footballer and football pundit with an exaggerated idea of the importance and value of his own views – views that by reason of his employment by the BBC at an absurd salary, he should not be voicing. He could and should be replaced at a fraction of the cost by any number of footballing motormouths.

Andrew Dalton
Andrew Dalton
1 year ago
Reply to  Jeremy Bray

The guy is a Dunning Kruger whose ignorance is turbo charged by a salary inversely proportionate to his ability.
Anyone in the UK who wants some form of immigration control has effectively been accused of (or at the very least of being adjacent to*) being a member of a certain national socialist party popular in central Europe 90 years ago.Does anyone want any more good reasons for the license fee being scrapped? I’m sure Lineker’s superiors, although just as ideological driven but probably slightly less stupid than him, have also realised this.

*A term I’m sure Gary likes as I hate it

AC Harper
AC Harper
1 year ago
Reply to  Jeremy Bray

Some journalists are being replaced by AI chat bots. That may or may not be a good idea but Lineker might consider if his job is as secure as it might be.

Nicky Samengo-Turner
Nicky Samengo-Turner
1 year ago
Reply to  AC Harper

but Lineker does chat out of his bot?

Jeremy Bray
Jeremy Bray
1 year ago
Reply to  AC Harper

“MATCH OF THE DAY last night received its largest audience since November.
The programme was watched by 2.58 million people – up nearly 500,000 from last week’s show.”

It seems Lineker and his fellow pundits are in fact are of negative value to the program and the BBC ought to drop them regardless of this spat.

Nicky Samengo-Turner
Nicky Samengo-Turner
1 year ago
Reply to  AC Harper

but Lineker does chat out of his bot?

Jeremy Bray
Jeremy Bray
1 year ago
Reply to  AC Harper

“MATCH OF THE DAY last night received its largest audience since November.
The programme was watched by 2.58 million people – up nearly 500,000 from last week’s show.”

It seems Lineker and his fellow pundits are in fact are of negative value to the program and the BBC ought to drop them regardless of this spat.

j watson
j watson
1 year ago
Reply to  Jeremy Bray

Lineker’s folks ran a market stall in Leicester, one of our most diverse cities. He worked on it as a lad. Clearly that experience stayed with him

I rather think he’s a national Treasure.

There is an issue about the over-use of Holocaust analogy. The worst at that of course have been all the anti-vaxxer nutjobs.

Now putting aside the obvious ‘play the ball not the man’ I think he could have used different phraseology to make his point but the gist of it was v valid and let’s not be having anti-wokers complain about free speech. I know consistency ain’t their strongest asset but please.

Pat Rowles
Pat Rowles
1 year ago
Reply to  j watson

Lineker’s folks ran a market stall in Leicester, one of our most diverse cities. He worked on it as a lad. Clearly that experience stayed with him

That’s right, and as a result he now spends his Saturdays giving out free fruit and veg to the poor and needy of Leicester. Or at least I’m sure he would, if he wasn’t so busy making seven figures a year for talking about football on the telly. And being a gormless, virtue-signalling twerp.

Rocky Martiano
Rocky Martiano
1 year ago
Reply to  j watson

I assume you’re referring to Andrew Bridgen MP as the ‘anti-vaxxer nutjob’. He has been suspended from his party, not for comparing the vaccine scandal to the holocaust, but for quoting someone else’s reference that it was the greatest crime since the holocaust. I’m sure even someone like yourself who toes the BBC line on just about everything can understand the difference.
The use of such a diversionary tactic to avoid focusing on the real issue, the scandal of excess deaths in the under 50s attributable to the bio-weapons developed at warp speed, is classic MSM propaganda.
But in Lineker’s case he’s a ‘national treasure’ and worked on a market stall, so let’s give him a free pass on the holocaust. What a pathetic argument.

j watson
j watson
1 year ago
Reply to  Rocky Martiano

I did appreciate the ‘national Treasure’ bit would get the blood running.

B Emery
B Emery
1 year ago
Reply to  j watson

Your baiting skills are the best I’ve seen on here. I love it.

Last edited 1 year ago by B Emery
B Emery
B Emery
1 year ago
Reply to  j watson

Your baiting skills are the best I’ve seen on here. I love it.

Last edited 1 year ago by B Emery
j watson
j watson
1 year ago
Reply to  Rocky Martiano

I did appreciate the ‘national Treasure’ bit would get the blood running.

Pat Rowles
Pat Rowles
1 year ago
Reply to  j watson

Lineker’s folks ran a market stall in Leicester, one of our most diverse cities. He worked on it as a lad. Clearly that experience stayed with him

That’s right, and as a result he now spends his Saturdays giving out free fruit and veg to the poor and needy of Leicester. Or at least I’m sure he would, if he wasn’t so busy making seven figures a year for talking about football on the telly. And being a gormless, virtue-signalling twerp.

Rocky Martiano
Rocky Martiano
1 year ago
Reply to  j watson

I assume you’re referring to Andrew Bridgen MP as the ‘anti-vaxxer nutjob’. He has been suspended from his party, not for comparing the vaccine scandal to the holocaust, but for quoting someone else’s reference that it was the greatest crime since the holocaust. I’m sure even someone like yourself who toes the BBC line on just about everything can understand the difference.
The use of such a diversionary tactic to avoid focusing on the real issue, the scandal of excess deaths in the under 50s attributable to the bio-weapons developed at warp speed, is classic MSM propaganda.
But in Lineker’s case he’s a ‘national treasure’ and worked on a market stall, so let’s give him a free pass on the holocaust. What a pathetic argument.

Andrew Dalton
Andrew Dalton
1 year ago
Reply to  Jeremy Bray

The guy is a Dunning Kruger whose ignorance is turbo charged by a salary inversely proportionate to his ability.
Anyone in the UK who wants some form of immigration control has effectively been accused of (or at the very least of being adjacent to*) being a member of a certain national socialist party popular in central Europe 90 years ago.Does anyone want any more good reasons for the license fee being scrapped? I’m sure Lineker’s superiors, although just as ideological driven but probably slightly less stupid than him, have also realised this.

*A term I’m sure Gary likes as I hate it

AC Harper
AC Harper
1 year ago
Reply to  Jeremy Bray

Some journalists are being replaced by AI chat bots. That may or may not be a good idea but Lineker might consider if his job is as secure as it might be.

j watson
j watson
1 year ago
Reply to  Jeremy Bray

Lineker’s folks ran a market stall in Leicester, one of our most diverse cities. He worked on it as a lad. Clearly that experience stayed with him

I rather think he’s a national Treasure.

There is an issue about the over-use of Holocaust analogy. The worst at that of course have been all the anti-vaxxer nutjobs.

Now putting aside the obvious ‘play the ball not the man’ I think he could have used different phraseology to make his point but the gist of it was v valid and let’s not be having anti-wokers complain about free speech. I know consistency ain’t their strongest asset but please.

Jeremy Bray
Jeremy Bray
1 year ago

If Lineker were a prominent historian that had dredged up stories from Der Sturmer raging against a flood of refugees seeking to get into Germany he would have an analogy with today and a very novel discovery of a previously unknown pre-war event and it might be worth listening to him. However, instead Lineker is a pretty ignorant footballer and football pundit with an exaggerated idea of the importance and value of his own views – views that by reason of his employment by the BBC at an absurd salary, he should not be voicing. He could and should be replaced at a fraction of the cost by any number of footballing motormouths.

Andy Moore
Andy Moore
1 year ago

But why are critics of the government so quick to reach for the rise of Nazism?

The simple answer is that they don’t have an argument, so they reach for their wardrobes, which are fall of coat hangers with slogans hanging on them.

Richard Craven
Richard Craven
1 year ago
Reply to  Andy Moore

Insightful metaphor.

j watson
j watson
1 year ago
Reply to  Andy Moore

You mean like Andrew Bridgen? Tory MP, Brexit advocate, conflating vaccine with Holocaust.
Odd you and many others of Unherd commentariat said zilch about that nonsense.

Chris Hume
Chris Hume
1 year ago
Reply to  j watson

Bridgen was a critic of the government, no?

Andy Moore
Andy Moore
1 year ago
Reply to  j watson

I believe he quoted what a leading medical professional had told him, whereas Lineker was stating his own opinion. Are you suggesting that people can no longer quote others?

j watson
j watson
1 year ago
Reply to  Andy Moore

Lineker was referencing a Holocaust survivors view of the language. Bridgen quoted a scientist view on vaccines and then did his v own link to the Holocaust (that the scientists never suggested). So in fact you’ve helpfully drawn further attention to the marked difference, albeit in rather the reverse of your intention I suspect.

Last edited 1 year ago by j watson
Andy Moore
Andy Moore
1 year ago
Reply to  j watson

Yet Lineker didn’t put that in his tweet, it is just something you’ve assumed. Secondly, Bridgen clearly stated that it was the medical professional made the comparison to the holocaust. Whether the professional actually said that is debatable, neither of them should have made the link. From my perspective both are wrong.

Andy Moore
Andy Moore
1 year ago
Reply to  j watson

Yet Lineker didn’t put that in his tweet, it is just something you’ve assumed. Secondly, Bridgen clearly stated that it was the medical professional made the comparison to the holocaust. Whether the professional actually said that is debatable, neither of them should have made the link. From my perspective both are wrong.

j watson
j watson
1 year ago
Reply to  Andy Moore

Lineker was referencing a Holocaust survivors view of the language. Bridgen quoted a scientist view on vaccines and then did his v own link to the Holocaust (that the scientists never suggested). So in fact you’ve helpfully drawn further attention to the marked difference, albeit in rather the reverse of your intention I suspect.

Last edited 1 year ago by j watson
Wesley Rawlings
Wesley Rawlings
1 year ago
Reply to  j watson

And here’s the real crux of your objection.
It matters not that they both said pretty silly things in positions of power; only who is friend and who is enemy.
As a post-Liberal you understand this implicitly.

j watson
j watson
1 year ago

I wouldn’t phrase it quite like that – too simplistic I fear, but your point isn’t entirely wrong to be fair. Crux IMO is here’s an article on Lineker’s twitter stuff and poor use of Germany 1930s analogy etc. Where’s similar Unherd Articles when Bridgen or anti-vaxxers make even more explicit Holocaust linkages? And of course one had to point out the Anti-Wokers inconsistency on free speech. Lineker is a sports pundit/presenter not presenter of the Today Programme, and when Sugar announced ‘Vote Tory’ in 2019 election BBC didn’t cancel The Apprentice. BBC currently got a Chairman who’s helped Bojo out with loans and not been suspended, so spare us the self-righteousness etc
The additional crux is one wouldn’t want Unherd comment-group-think to develop too easily. Being challenged important

j watson
j watson
1 year ago

I wouldn’t phrase it quite like that – too simplistic I fear, but your point isn’t entirely wrong to be fair. Crux IMO is here’s an article on Lineker’s twitter stuff and poor use of Germany 1930s analogy etc. Where’s similar Unherd Articles when Bridgen or anti-vaxxers make even more explicit Holocaust linkages? And of course one had to point out the Anti-Wokers inconsistency on free speech. Lineker is a sports pundit/presenter not presenter of the Today Programme, and when Sugar announced ‘Vote Tory’ in 2019 election BBC didn’t cancel The Apprentice. BBC currently got a Chairman who’s helped Bojo out with loans and not been suspended, so spare us the self-righteousness etc
The additional crux is one wouldn’t want Unherd comment-group-think to develop too easily. Being challenged important

Neil Ross
Neil Ross
1 year ago
Reply to  j watson

Bridgen got sanctioned for his comment by having the whip withdrawn. Lineker should get the equivalent treatment ie be suspended!!

Chris Hume
Chris Hume
1 year ago
Reply to  j watson

Bridgen was a critic of the government, no?

Andy Moore
Andy Moore
1 year ago
Reply to  j watson

I believe he quoted what a leading medical professional had told him, whereas Lineker was stating his own opinion. Are you suggesting that people can no longer quote others?

Wesley Rawlings
Wesley Rawlings
1 year ago
Reply to  j watson

And here’s the real crux of your objection.
It matters not that they both said pretty silly things in positions of power; only who is friend and who is enemy.
As a post-Liberal you understand this implicitly.

Neil Ross
Neil Ross
1 year ago
Reply to  j watson

Bridgen got sanctioned for his comment by having the whip withdrawn. Lineker should get the equivalent treatment ie be suspended!!

Richard Craven
Richard Craven
1 year ago
Reply to  Andy Moore

Insightful metaphor.

j watson
j watson
1 year ago
Reply to  Andy Moore

You mean like Andrew Bridgen? Tory MP, Brexit advocate, conflating vaccine with Holocaust.
Odd you and many others of Unherd commentariat said zilch about that nonsense.

Andy Moore
Andy Moore
1 year ago

But why are critics of the government so quick to reach for the rise of Nazism?

The simple answer is that they don’t have an argument, so they reach for their wardrobes, which are fall of coat hangers with slogans hanging on them.

Andrew Dalton
Andrew Dalton
1 year ago

Interesting parallels with Gina Carano. She was fired by Disney for complaining on Twitter that the silencing of conservative voices was reminiscent of 1930s Germany, which was deemed antisemitic.
Using that logic, I fully expect Lineker to be fired for being an antisemite.

Last edited 1 year ago by Andrew Dalton
Andrew Dalton
Andrew Dalton
1 year ago

Interesting parallels with Gina Carano. She was fired by Disney for complaining on Twitter that the silencing of conservative voices was reminiscent of 1930s Germany, which was deemed antisemitic.
Using that logic, I fully expect Lineker to be fired for being an antisemite.

Last edited 1 year ago by Andrew Dalton
Hugh Bryant
Hugh Bryant
1 year ago

Lineker’s behaviour rather reminds me of John Lennon sitting in his Ascot mansion with his Roller parked outside and singing ‘imagine no possessions’ in that famous video. Gary can’t really be blamed for his lack of self-awareness. He’s been cossetted by sycophants and showered with easy money since he was a teenager. After all, this is the man who moaned about how difficult it is to get by on £1.75 million pa. Must be even worse now he’s only getting £1.35m.
It’s the people who pay attention to him that I can’t understand: he’s not offering an alternative solution or saying anything very intelligent.
But then neither is the Labour Party. Yesterday Yvette Cooper announced that, under a Labour government, there’d be no boat crossings. No mention of how this was to be achieved.

D Glover
D Glover
1 year ago
Reply to  Hugh Bryant

But then neither is the Labour Party. Yesterday Yvette Cooper announced that, under a Labour government, there’d be no boat crossings. No mention of how this was to be achieved.

I think we know very well how it would be achieved. She would just let them all in.

Last edited 1 year ago by D Glover
Mel Shaw
Mel Shaw
1 year ago
Reply to  D Glover

They wouldn’t need rubber boats. Labour would give them ferry tickets.

Mel Shaw
Mel Shaw
1 year ago
Reply to  D Glover

They wouldn’t need rubber boats. Labour would give them ferry tickets.

D Glover
D Glover
1 year ago
Reply to  Hugh Bryant

But then neither is the Labour Party. Yesterday Yvette Cooper announced that, under a Labour government, there’d be no boat crossings. No mention of how this was to be achieved.

I think we know very well how it would be achieved. She would just let them all in.

Last edited 1 year ago by D Glover
Hugh Bryant
Hugh Bryant
1 year ago

Lineker’s behaviour rather reminds me of John Lennon sitting in his Ascot mansion with his Roller parked outside and singing ‘imagine no possessions’ in that famous video. Gary can’t really be blamed for his lack of self-awareness. He’s been cossetted by sycophants and showered with easy money since he was a teenager. After all, this is the man who moaned about how difficult it is to get by on £1.75 million pa. Must be even worse now he’s only getting £1.35m.
It’s the people who pay attention to him that I can’t understand: he’s not offering an alternative solution or saying anything very intelligent.
But then neither is the Labour Party. Yesterday Yvette Cooper announced that, under a Labour government, there’d be no boat crossings. No mention of how this was to be achieved.

John Dellingby
John Dellingby
1 year ago

Anyone who has studied the Nazi’s and the Holocaust knows Lineker’s argument is a load of manure, yet you get many who condemn far less egregious analogies leaping to his defence. These people aren’t stupid by any means, yet they’re very good at making themselves look stupid to stand up for one of their own.

My main fear from this is that Nazism, like the term “far right” will become a meaningless insult and label to try and discredit people they disagree with. Terms that would once outrage me such as “far right” or “fascist” now just make me shrug, adding that level of indifference to Nazism is a road I don’t look forward to seeing us go down, but the scary thing is that the people calling us these terms 100% believe it.

AL Crowe
AL Crowe
1 year ago
Reply to  John Dellingby

Have you been living under a hedgerow somewhere for much of the last decade? I was under the impression that that particular ship had long sailed, and that Nazi, along with far right, communist, racist, sexist, transphobe and white supremacist had all amalgamated themselves into a single category with little meaning left besides “ad hominems to throw at those whom you disagree with politically”.

AL Crowe
AL Crowe
1 year ago
Reply to  John Dellingby

Have you been living under a hedgerow somewhere for much of the last decade? I was under the impression that that particular ship had long sailed, and that Nazi, along with far right, communist, racist, sexist, transphobe and white supremacist had all amalgamated themselves into a single category with little meaning left besides “ad hominems to throw at those whom you disagree with politically”.

John Dellingby
John Dellingby
1 year ago

Anyone who has studied the Nazi’s and the Holocaust knows Lineker’s argument is a load of manure, yet you get many who condemn far less egregious analogies leaping to his defence. These people aren’t stupid by any means, yet they’re very good at making themselves look stupid to stand up for one of their own.

My main fear from this is that Nazism, like the term “far right” will become a meaningless insult and label to try and discredit people they disagree with. Terms that would once outrage me such as “far right” or “fascist” now just make me shrug, adding that level of indifference to Nazism is a road I don’t look forward to seeing us go down, but the scary thing is that the people calling us these terms 100% believe it.

Ian McKinney
Ian McKinney
1 year ago

Excellent well argued and very accurate article.

Ian McKinney
Ian McKinney
1 year ago
Reply to  Ian McKinney

And some very good comments as well.

Richard Craven
Richard Craven
1 year ago
Reply to  Ian McKinney

Yes indeed.

j watson
j watson
1 year ago
Reply to  Richard Craven

No most of the comments just show fairly standard cognitive bias to which the Author used a standard playbook. Like chucking a bone at the dog. Too easy.

j watson
j watson
1 year ago
Reply to  Richard Craven

No most of the comments just show fairly standard cognitive bias to which the Author used a standard playbook. Like chucking a bone at the dog. Too easy.

Richard Craven
Richard Craven
1 year ago
Reply to  Ian McKinney

Yes indeed.

j watson
j watson
1 year ago
Reply to  Ian McKinney

Conveniently not mentioning Andrew Bridgen.

Aidan Trimble
Aidan Trimble
1 year ago
Reply to  j watson

Why on earth would we mention Bridgen when we’re discussing Lineker ? That was a completely different case of hysterical ignorance ? Why are you persisting with ‘whataboutery ?

j watson
j watson
1 year ago
Reply to  Aidan Trimble

Job done – you had to think about the inconsistency in what generates an Unherd Article, even if only momentarily before rage took over.

Last edited 1 year ago by j watson
j watson
j watson
1 year ago
Reply to  Aidan Trimble

Job done – you had to think about the inconsistency in what generates an Unherd Article, even if only momentarily before rage took over.

Last edited 1 year ago by j watson
Aidan Trimble
Aidan Trimble
1 year ago
Reply to  j watson

Why on earth would we mention Bridgen when we’re discussing Lineker ? That was a completely different case of hysterical ignorance ? Why are you persisting with ‘whataboutery ?

Ian McKinney
Ian McKinney
1 year ago
Reply to  Ian McKinney

And some very good comments as well.

j watson
j watson
1 year ago
Reply to  Ian McKinney

Conveniently not mentioning Andrew Bridgen.

Ian McKinney
Ian McKinney
1 year ago

Excellent well argued and very accurate article.

Albireo Double
Albireo Double
1 year ago

I don’t know why anyone would be surprised. This is the same Gary Lineker who peddled a story about being subject to racist discrimination because of his “dark skin”. I invite anybody to Google his parents, Barry and Margaret Lineker.

You really need to look no further and think no further than that, to know how desperate this poor little rich man seemingly is, to signal his “oppressed background”, and thus, at least in his sad little view, his “virtue”.

Last edited 1 year ago by Albireo Double
Albireo Double
Albireo Double
1 year ago

I don’t know why anyone would be surprised. This is the same Gary Lineker who peddled a story about being subject to racist discrimination because of his “dark skin”. I invite anybody to Google his parents, Barry and Margaret Lineker.

You really need to look no further and think no further than that, to know how desperate this poor little rich man seemingly is, to signal his “oppressed background”, and thus, at least in his sad little view, his “virtue”.

Last edited 1 year ago by Albireo Double
John Solomon
John Solomon
1 year ago

According to Wikipedia Lineker has 4 O-levels.

I am surprised he has so many.

John Solomon
John Solomon
1 year ago

According to Wikipedia Lineker has 4 O-levels.

I am surprised he has so many.

Susan Grabston
Susan Grabston
1 year ago

The only redeeming aspect to this story is that the left are finally being called on their lazy Nazi narrative. To this point they have been allowed to get away with linguistic hyperbole if not arrant nonsense (Isla Bryson). They are be8jg called to account.

Susan Grabston
Susan Grabston
1 year ago

The only redeeming aspect to this story is that the left are finally being called on their lazy Nazi narrative. To this point they have been allowed to get away with linguistic hyperbole if not arrant nonsense (Isla Bryson). They are be8jg called to account.

Richard Craven
Richard Craven
1 year ago

“But why are critics of the government so quick to reach for the rise of Nazism?”
Deployment of the Argumentum ad Hitlerum tends to be the result of intellectual impoverishment.

AL Crowe
AL Crowe
1 year ago
Reply to  Richard Craven

well, it’s partly because Nazi is a term that in spite of the excessive overuse and application to all kinds of inappropriate and trivial things has managed to retain some kind of punch to it, and it is much easier to spell than Orwellian…

Andrew Dalton
Andrew Dalton
1 year ago
Reply to  AL Crowe

Orwellian has the advantage of not causing posts to go into pre-moderation though.

B Emery
B Emery
1 year ago
Reply to  AL Crowe

We are run by people that CAN spell Orwellian.
Yet here we are.

Andrew Dalton
Andrew Dalton
1 year ago
Reply to  AL Crowe

Orwellian has the advantage of not causing posts to go into pre-moderation though.

B Emery
B Emery
1 year ago
Reply to  AL Crowe

We are run by people that CAN spell Orwellian.
Yet here we are.

Max Beran
Max Beran
1 year ago
Reply to  Richard Craven

I await an instance of the Argumentum ad Musselinium aimed at those trying to blame the unions for the trains not running to time.

AL Crowe
AL Crowe
1 year ago
Reply to  Richard Craven

well, it’s partly because Nazi is a term that in spite of the excessive overuse and application to all kinds of inappropriate and trivial things has managed to retain some kind of punch to it, and it is much easier to spell than Orwellian…

Max Beran
Max Beran
1 year ago
Reply to  Richard Craven

I await an instance of the Argumentum ad Musselinium aimed at those trying to blame the unions for the trains not running to time.

Richard Craven
Richard Craven
1 year ago

“But why are critics of the government so quick to reach for the rise of Nazism?”
Deployment of the Argumentum ad Hitlerum tends to be the result of intellectual impoverishment.

Jane Davis
Jane Davis
1 year ago

As a Jewish person, can I point out that Braverman was taken to task not so many months ago by a Jewish Holocaust survivor for her use of inflammatory language. She dismissed her to the approval of the audience.
Plus I would like to remind the writer of this article that The Daily Express and The Daily Mail were always owned fascist sympathisers in the 1930s. The language Joseph Goebbels used about jews – eg vermin – focused on status, numbers and infestation. They weren’t migrants but the policy was to make them so in order to hand over their status and achievements to ‘aryans’ and ‘Germans’ Sound familiar? That, of course, was before they decided on extermination.
Projects like the Kindertransport and immigration to the UK during the Nazi period was opposed by these papers in very similar language to that used by Braverman, Farage, The BNP etcetera.
These projects saved Jewish lives during the Holocaust.
Preceding the Rwandan genocide, if you were in the wrong tribe you were referred to as a ‘cockroach’
We do need a debate about and action on migrant numbers. We do not need it in these terms. If you don’t want economic migrants, I suggest you support fair trade, if you don’t want asylum seekers, take yourself to an arms fair and protest. The dictators who create these situations have cosy amounts of dosh in London banks.
As for the housing market, it has been distorted by overpaid lawyers, bankers and the extreme wealthy elite who buy properties they do not live in. It has also been distorted by a right wing politics that makes earning a living wage impossible and chips away at welfare cushioning. It is not surprising that people cling to the value of their houses when they have no other security.
The Holocaust is not even that historical because old school Nazism has never been purely historical. If you look at the figures provided by Hope Not Hate or even the Jewish Board of Deputies, you will see this. It certainly wasn’t historical in my youth – swastikas chalked on our local cemetery, a Nazi salute given to our cortege on my sister’s wedding day, routine security outside Jewish schools, synagogues because of entirely justified fear of attacks.
Some Jewish people have chosen to learn the lessons of genocide and understand that ‘the other’ must be defended if you want to be safe.
Lineker may be naive but he is right. The tone of the responses to this article demonstrates this.
Reducing migration, immigration and asylum seeking will not solve the cost of living crisis, the social care crisis or the housing crisis. The demographic and economic causes of these have nothing whatsoever to do with immigration.
The last thing a Tory government wants is a real debate about the economic mess caused by their policies and the UK’s high risk, high debt society.
Anybody who believes that this lot care about the financial struggles of ordinary people must be delusional.

Lucy Coates
Lucy Coates
1 year ago
Reply to  Jane Davis

Thank you for this. He may not be an intellectual but Lineker’s unflinching and unapologetic anti-racist stance is much less nauseating to me than the arrogant comments here about not understanding the Holocaust. The extermination of millions of Jews didn’t occur in a political or economic vacuum. When Priti Patel talked about an ‘invasion’ a while ago she was deliberately playing to the ‘us and them’ prejudices that place the blame for our economic ills on refugees. It’s called scapegoating. Ring any bells?

Elaine Giedrys-Leeper
Elaine Giedrys-Leeper
1 year ago
Reply to  Jane Davis

Many thanks for this.
One of the very few clear sighted and relevant comments to this piece IMHO
Less heat and more light.

Lucy Coates
Lucy Coates
1 year ago
Reply to  Jane Davis

Thank you for this. He may not be an intellectual but Lineker’s unflinching and unapologetic anti-racist stance is much less nauseating to me than the arrogant comments here about not understanding the Holocaust. The extermination of millions of Jews didn’t occur in a political or economic vacuum. When Priti Patel talked about an ‘invasion’ a while ago she was deliberately playing to the ‘us and them’ prejudices that place the blame for our economic ills on refugees. It’s called scapegoating. Ring any bells?

Elaine Giedrys-Leeper
Elaine Giedrys-Leeper
1 year ago
Reply to  Jane Davis

Many thanks for this.
One of the very few clear sighted and relevant comments to this piece IMHO
Less heat and more light.

Jane Davis
Jane Davis
1 year ago

As a Jewish person, can I point out that Braverman was taken to task not so many months ago by a Jewish Holocaust survivor for her use of inflammatory language. She dismissed her to the approval of the audience.
Plus I would like to remind the writer of this article that The Daily Express and The Daily Mail were always owned fascist sympathisers in the 1930s. The language Joseph Goebbels used about jews – eg vermin – focused on status, numbers and infestation. They weren’t migrants but the policy was to make them so in order to hand over their status and achievements to ‘aryans’ and ‘Germans’ Sound familiar? That, of course, was before they decided on extermination.
Projects like the Kindertransport and immigration to the UK during the Nazi period was opposed by these papers in very similar language to that used by Braverman, Farage, The BNP etcetera.
These projects saved Jewish lives during the Holocaust.
Preceding the Rwandan genocide, if you were in the wrong tribe you were referred to as a ‘cockroach’
We do need a debate about and action on migrant numbers. We do not need it in these terms. If you don’t want economic migrants, I suggest you support fair trade, if you don’t want asylum seekers, take yourself to an arms fair and protest. The dictators who create these situations have cosy amounts of dosh in London banks.
As for the housing market, it has been distorted by overpaid lawyers, bankers and the extreme wealthy elite who buy properties they do not live in. It has also been distorted by a right wing politics that makes earning a living wage impossible and chips away at welfare cushioning. It is not surprising that people cling to the value of their houses when they have no other security.
The Holocaust is not even that historical because old school Nazism has never been purely historical. If you look at the figures provided by Hope Not Hate or even the Jewish Board of Deputies, you will see this. It certainly wasn’t historical in my youth – swastikas chalked on our local cemetery, a Nazi salute given to our cortege on my sister’s wedding day, routine security outside Jewish schools, synagogues because of entirely justified fear of attacks.
Some Jewish people have chosen to learn the lessons of genocide and understand that ‘the other’ must be defended if you want to be safe.
Lineker may be naive but he is right. The tone of the responses to this article demonstrates this.
Reducing migration, immigration and asylum seeking will not solve the cost of living crisis, the social care crisis or the housing crisis. The demographic and economic causes of these have nothing whatsoever to do with immigration.
The last thing a Tory government wants is a real debate about the economic mess caused by their policies and the UK’s high risk, high debt society.
Anybody who believes that this lot care about the financial struggles of ordinary people must be delusional.

Nicky Samengo-Turner
Nicky Samengo-Turner
1 year ago

thick as a whale blubber sandwich…

Nicky Samengo-Turner
Nicky Samengo-Turner
1 year ago

thick as a whale blubber sandwich…

Frank McCusker
Frank McCusker
1 year ago

Many people assume that the Holocaust refers to Hitler’s genocidal campaign, and not to the gradual deterioration of socio-political norms in Germany in the period prior to the Holocaust. Of course,
The early and mid-30s in Germany saw a steady ratcheting up of intolerance, starting with words, progression to repressive laws, book burnings, vandalism etc and ending up with the most systematic genocidal campaign in recorded history.
Lineker is of course not comparing Braverman’s policies to Dachau, but he is saying that they are “not dissimilar” to the earlier degradation of decency which certainly occurred in Germany in the 30s – see:
https://www.jewishgen.org/forgottencamps/general/timeeng.html ,
and which paved away for Hitler’s mass-murder. It’s a wider point about the fragility of standards when politicians start down a mob-pleasing / scapegoating path.
It was a provocative remark, of course, but is the consensus now that anyone who criticises the government should be sacked?
The anti-Lineker pile-on in right-wing circles reminds me, ironically, of the left-wing pile-on in anti-statues circles. 
All nuances lost: https://youtu.be/qrcvWiSnvyQ

Frank McCusker
Frank McCusker
1 year ago

Many people assume that the Holocaust refers to Hitler’s genocidal campaign, and not to the gradual deterioration of socio-political norms in Germany in the period prior to the Holocaust. Of course,
The early and mid-30s in Germany saw a steady ratcheting up of intolerance, starting with words, progression to repressive laws, book burnings, vandalism etc and ending up with the most systematic genocidal campaign in recorded history.
Lineker is of course not comparing Braverman’s policies to Dachau, but he is saying that they are “not dissimilar” to the earlier degradation of decency which certainly occurred in Germany in the 30s – see:
https://www.jewishgen.org/forgottencamps/general/timeeng.html ,
and which paved away for Hitler’s mass-murder. It’s a wider point about the fragility of standards when politicians start down a mob-pleasing / scapegoating path.
It was a provocative remark, of course, but is the consensus now that anyone who criticises the government should be sacked?
The anti-Lineker pile-on in right-wing circles reminds me, ironically, of the left-wing pile-on in anti-statues circles. 
All nuances lost: https://youtu.be/qrcvWiSnvyQ

Julian Pellatt
Julian Pellatt
1 year ago

It’s quite simple really. Lineker has the same right of free speech as anyone else to express his views, however intemperate and puerile these may be. Surely, though, his employer is entitled to suspend or sack him if it considers that his free expression compromises his paid job or the organisation? Millions of public service workers are contractually bound not to make public pronouncements that may bring their organisations into disrepute. Employees have been sacked for far lesser public expressions of opinion. No doubt many similar contracts of employment exist in the private sector.
Lineker enjoys a particularly privileged position given his vast audience, many of whom might be influenced by his views. In a way it is an abuse of privilege (power). If Lineker wishes to use his prominence to communicate his personal views to the nation, he should do the honourable thing and resign. He could then rant publicly ad nauseam without fear of legitimate castigation and thereby exercise his right to free speech. There will be plenty of competent people, attracted by the prospect his monumental salary, to step into his shoes.
The BBC should tighten up its employment contracts so future Linekers are in no doubt about the consequences of abusing their fame and position to impose their worldviews on the general population.

Julian Pellatt
Julian Pellatt
1 year ago

It’s quite simple really. Lineker has the same right of free speech as anyone else to express his views, however intemperate and puerile these may be. Surely, though, his employer is entitled to suspend or sack him if it considers that his free expression compromises his paid job or the organisation? Millions of public service workers are contractually bound not to make public pronouncements that may bring their organisations into disrepute. Employees have been sacked for far lesser public expressions of opinion. No doubt many similar contracts of employment exist in the private sector.
Lineker enjoys a particularly privileged position given his vast audience, many of whom might be influenced by his views. In a way it is an abuse of privilege (power). If Lineker wishes to use his prominence to communicate his personal views to the nation, he should do the honourable thing and resign. He could then rant publicly ad nauseam without fear of legitimate castigation and thereby exercise his right to free speech. There will be plenty of competent people, attracted by the prospect his monumental salary, to step into his shoes.
The BBC should tighten up its employment contracts so future Linekers are in no doubt about the consequences of abusing their fame and position to impose their worldviews on the general population.

Robbie K
Robbie K
1 year ago

Great, he’s gone, with the added bonus of Ian Wright off too!

Robbie K
Robbie K
1 year ago

Great, he’s gone, with the added bonus of Ian Wright off too!

John Le Huquet
John Le Huquet
1 year ago

Lineker’s comments comparing the UK to Nazi Germany are offensive and demeaning to all those who suffered under the Nazis. All I can say that he is ignorant of history. I suspect Lineker doesn’t understand what facism means, in theory or practice.

John Le Huquet
John Le Huquet
1 year ago

Lineker’s comments comparing the UK to Nazi Germany are offensive and demeaning to all those who suffered under the Nazis. All I can say that he is ignorant of history. I suspect Lineker doesn’t understand what facism means, in theory or practice.

Chris Hume
Chris Hume
1 year ago

I don’t understand all the outrage myself. Is it an absurd and hyperbolic description? Yes. Is Lineker someone who parrots progressive shibboleths for twitter clout? Yes. But so what? You can just ignore it. People compare ridiculous stuff to Nazi Germany every day. If he made political statements on Match of the Day that’s one thing, but in his private capacity he can say what he likes and others can argue with it.

Philip Burrell
Philip Burrell
1 year ago
Reply to  Chris Hume

The most sensible comment I have seen to date with the possible exception of J.Watson’s interventions. It would be interesting to compare the reaction of individual daily newspapers to Gary Lineker’s faux pas to that committed by Andrew Bridgen.

AL Crowe
AL Crowe
1 year ago
Reply to  Chris Hume

To be honest, Lineker isn’t someone I have been capable of taking seriously for years now, most of his political perspectives are so stereotypical and unimaginative that I can barely muster a raised eyebrow, although I did find it highly comedic when he claimed he had been racially abused for being brown (otherwise known as having a modest sun tan to us mere mortals).

When people take him seriously, they only endow his bland commentary with more weighting than it deserves, and give him attention that he doesn’t merit.

B Emery
B Emery
1 year ago
Reply to  AL Crowe

Again. The BBC is not supposed to be BIASED.

AL Crowe
AL Crowe
1 year ago
Reply to  B Emery

and again, if you don’t see my response to your comment above, expecting an organisation whose staff are now mostly political activists of a fairly narrow set of opinions to do more than offer the vaguest lip service to that concept is optimistic to put it mildly.

j watson
j watson
1 year ago
Reply to  AL Crowe

Groan, unfortunately I feel the need to make this point at multiple points of the comment stream – do you think Sugar/The Apprentice should have been suspended in 2019 when he declared in the Papers ‘Vote Tory’? Do you think BBC chair should be suspended for role in sorting loans for Bojo? Do you think the two examples above pass an impartiality test?
We can criticise Lineker, but jeez we need to be consistent don’t we?

B Emery
B Emery
1 year ago
Reply to  j watson

Yes forgive me but 2019 was some time ago and between the pandemic and the war I had other things to worry about. I do not have a TV so I dont know anything about the apprentice. I have answered you above.

AL Crowe
AL Crowe
1 year ago
Reply to  j watson

Not my argument, and as I’ve said, the BBC is a lost cause in terms of its claims to political neutrality, so I don’t see much point in seeing any of the political virtue signallers as better or worse than any others.

However, B Emery seems to be arguing for consistency rather than cherry picking, which seems a sound argument in theory in my opinion, however futile trying to enforce or maintain them tends to be in reality.

B Emery
B Emery
1 year ago
Reply to  AL Crowe

Nobody sticks to the rules any more. That is the problem. Twitter, BBC, likely Facebook etc. all BIASED because they DID NOT STICK TO THEIR POLICY.
Banks – Went tits up and are likely to again because we did not stick to basic economic principles or our own rules when we bailed them out.
Covid – original pandemic Plans were ignored, normal rules and checks were ignored or made less stringent. Again, factual information was censored because people DID NOT STICK TO THE RULES.
Boats – Apparently we have no laws against anyone turning up when they please and just mooching into the country. If we have laws and rules against this. Again. They are not being implemented. Nobody is following them.
Do not even get me started on ukraine or the energy markets. Or the nord stream. Somebody just smashed up the rule book with that one didn’t they.
This is the most basic sh*t.
We can’t even follow or implement our own rules and laws, no wonder we are f*cked.

B Emery
B Emery
1 year ago
Reply to  AL Crowe

Nobody sticks to the rules any more. That is the problem. Twitter, BBC, likely Facebook etc. all BIASED because they DID NOT STICK TO THEIR POLICY.
Banks – Went tits up and are likely to again because we did not stick to basic economic principles or our own rules when we bailed them out.
Covid – original pandemic Plans were ignored, normal rules and checks were ignored or made less stringent. Again, factual information was censored because people DID NOT STICK TO THE RULES.
Boats – Apparently we have no laws against anyone turning up when they please and just mooching into the country. If we have laws and rules against this. Again. They are not being implemented. Nobody is following them.
Do not even get me started on ukraine or the energy markets. Or the nord stream. Somebody just smashed up the rule book with that one didn’t they.
This is the most basic sh*t.
We can’t even follow or implement our own rules and laws, no wonder we are f*cked.

B Emery
B Emery
1 year ago
Reply to  j watson

Yes forgive me but 2019 was some time ago and between the pandemic and the war I had other things to worry about. I do not have a TV so I dont know anything about the apprentice. I have answered you above.

AL Crowe
AL Crowe
1 year ago
Reply to  j watson

Not my argument, and as I’ve said, the BBC is a lost cause in terms of its claims to political neutrality, so I don’t see much point in seeing any of the political virtue signallers as better or worse than any others.

However, B Emery seems to be arguing for consistency rather than cherry picking, which seems a sound argument in theory in my opinion, however futile trying to enforce or maintain them tends to be in reality.

j watson
j watson
1 year ago
Reply to  AL Crowe

Groan, unfortunately I feel the need to make this point at multiple points of the comment stream – do you think Sugar/The Apprentice should have been suspended in 2019 when he declared in the Papers ‘Vote Tory’? Do you think BBC chair should be suspended for role in sorting loans for Bojo? Do you think the two examples above pass an impartiality test?
We can criticise Lineker, but jeez we need to be consistent don’t we?

AL Crowe
AL Crowe
1 year ago
Reply to  B Emery

and again, if you don’t see my response to your comment above, expecting an organisation whose staff are now mostly political activists of a fairly narrow set of opinions to do more than offer the vaguest lip service to that concept is optimistic to put it mildly.

B Emery
B Emery
1 year ago