January 27, 2023 - 12:00pm
Former Number Ten chief adviser Dominic Cummings has confirmed that the ‘Deep State’ is real. Referring to “deeply entrenched institutions” that control “the vast majority of government”, Cummings warned on the Manifold podcast last week that there was “very little democratic insight”. He added that the Deep State is often a good thing, for example succeeding in “thwarting” former health secretary Matt Hancock during the Covid pandemic for the “benefit of the country”.
“A lot of the things that were best in Covid was the Deep State thwarting Matt Hancock, the elected politician, for the benefit of the country,” said the political strategist. “The fact that the quality of the people elected is so desperately bad now across Western governments that brilliant 30-year-old women who no one’s heard of or who no one’s elected are running things is actually for the good”.
The Deep State refers to a body of people, typically influential members of government agencies or the military, believed to be involved in the secret manipulation or control of government policy. Cummings stressed that it was important to “disentangle” the term from the “Trumpian” iteration in which conspiracies abound. “The phrase can be problematic because you don’t want to encourage the idea that there is some sort of generalised conspiracy of officials to thwart democratic politics,” said the Vote Leave mastermind. “You have to treat those things on a case by case basis.” Full comments below:
Now, of course, there are often conspiracies going on in the Deep State but you have to be careful to disentangle the two things. The Deep State is real; it controls the vast majority of things in government and most of the elected people have no understanding or involvement of what’s going on — that’s just a fact.
But that doesn’t mean that everything you read about is happening because of the Deep State or it’s some kind of conspiracy by officials against democratic politics: you have to treat those things on a case by case basis.
Therefore the phrase can be problematic because you don’t want to encourage the idea that there is some sort of generalised conspiracy of officials to thwart democratic politics. Because a lot of what’s happening is — and this is where it gets super confusing and difficult — is that very good, sensible, intelligent officials with genuine public service understand far better what’s going on than the idiots who were elected. They are actually trying to stop the idiots who have been elected from doing terrible things.
That happened during Covid. A lot of the things that were best in Covid was the Deep State thwarting Matt Hancock, the elected politician, for the benefit of the country…The fact that the quality of the people elected is so desperately bad now across Western governments that brilliant 30-year-old women who no one’s heard of or who no one’s elected are running things is actually for the good. But the long-term consequences of this is also that these institutions have been incredibly stale and self-reinforcing. Nothing can change in any way — including the Deep State itself.
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SubscribeHancock was an idiot, yes, but Cummings was a lockdown fanatic.
It would be enlightening to see examples of how the Deep State thwarted Matt Hancock, so we can judge for ourselves whether the thwarting was good.
Yes. Upon reflection, my original post should read citation needed.
Were these invisible bureaucrats responsible for the Nightingale Hospitals; an extremely efficient operation that was an entirely pointless waste of money? Would Hancock have enriched his friends even more with the PPE fraud?
Leaked the cctv with his girlfriend?
And this is the whole point. Someone that no one knows makes policy and we cannot even assess if it was good or not because we are not even told it happened.
Yes. Upon reflection, my original post should read citation needed.
Were these invisible bureaucrats responsible for the Nightingale Hospitals; an extremely efficient operation that was an entirely pointless waste of money? Would Hancock have enriched his friends even more with the PPE fraud?
Leaked the cctv with his girlfriend?
And this is the whole point. Someone that no one knows makes policy and we cannot even assess if it was good or not because we are not even told it happened.
Hancock was an idiot, yes, but Cummings was a lockdown fanatic.
It would be enlightening to see examples of how the Deep State thwarted Matt Hancock, so we can judge for ourselves whether the thwarting was good.
Words fail me.
Unelected technocrat wants out of the EU for a return to an accountable political system, discovers the country is largely run by unelected technocrats, and claims it’s a good thing.
The covid response isn’t the government’s fault and that’s a good thing.
Also, it’s only a conspiracy if it Dominic doesn’t like it.
Twenty years since I last voted. Dom is confirming exactly why that’s a thing.
He was an even bigger disappointment than Boris.
It’s one of those ‘Yes, Minister’ irregular verbs:
– I understand far better what’s going on than the idiots who were elected.
– You thwart the elected politician for the benefit of the country.
– He controls huge amounts of what happens with zero to very little democratic insight or even knowledge or understanding.
The conceit of university educated progressives that they know better and should be in charge is what led to the Covid mandate debacle in the first place. Ordinary people are wiser than the elites – particularly when they act like a hive mind by voting democratically.
He was an even bigger disappointment than Boris.
It’s one of those ‘Yes, Minister’ irregular verbs:
– I understand far better what’s going on than the idiots who were elected.
– You thwart the elected politician for the benefit of the country.
– He controls huge amounts of what happens with zero to very little democratic insight or even knowledge or understanding.
The conceit of university educated progressives that they know better and should be in charge is what led to the Covid mandate debacle in the first place. Ordinary people are wiser than the elites – particularly when they act like a hive mind by voting democratically.
Words fail me.
Unelected technocrat wants out of the EU for a return to an accountable political system, discovers the country is largely run by unelected technocrats, and claims it’s a good thing.
The covid response isn’t the government’s fault and that’s a good thing.
Also, it’s only a conspiracy if it Dominic doesn’t like it.
Twenty years since I last voted. Dom is confirming exactly why that’s a thing.
If those running the Deep State are so bright, how did we end up with our disastrous energy policy?
Arent you American though? Your energy policy is a different kettle of fish.
Because largely they weren’t running it. Politicians pushed it to the ‘market’. Read up on Centrica’s decisions to close Gas storage facilities.
Oh no, they aren’t bright, just self-assured and determined to enact their agenda which they believe to be the best for everyone.
Arent you American though? Your energy policy is a different kettle of fish.
Because largely they weren’t running it. Politicians pushed it to the ‘market’. Read up on Centrica’s decisions to close Gas storage facilities.
Oh no, they aren’t bright, just self-assured and determined to enact their agenda which they believe to be the best for everyone.
If those running the Deep State are so bright, how did we end up with our disastrous energy policy?
Regarding the snark about Trump and his “conspiracies” – the whole Russiagate farce (paid for by Hilary and her cronies, and maintained by various people in the FBI), and the Muller “investigation” – was nothing but a conspiracy that was uncovered after the false reporting was finished.
And who can forget the Hunter Biden laptop “conspiracy” to pretend that the laptop was Russian psychop. The entire Cathedral misinformed the public, including the FBI who at the time, HAD the laptop in its possession for almost a year and KNEW it was authentic.
So this Dominic guy sounds like the deep state himself, and this article to be giving a bit of cover to him and it.
Read ‘Spies & Lies’ – Alex Joske. There is a deep state but it’s the CCP and they’ve infiltrated everywhere,
The Hunter Biden story is still unfolding. Some think he used Joe’s ‘top secret’ files and the information to obtain clients. So in addition to the Deep State, do we also have wayward children of politicians meddling as well ?
I no longer think of them as ‘conspiracy theories.’ More like spoiler alerts.
Read ‘Spies & Lies’ – Alex Joske. There is a deep state but it’s the CCP and they’ve infiltrated everywhere,
The Hunter Biden story is still unfolding. Some think he used Joe’s ‘top secret’ files and the information to obtain clients. So in addition to the Deep State, do we also have wayward children of politicians meddling as well ?
I no longer think of them as ‘conspiracy theories.’ More like spoiler alerts.
Regarding the snark about Trump and his “conspiracies” – the whole Russiagate farce (paid for by Hilary and her cronies, and maintained by various people in the FBI), and the Muller “investigation” – was nothing but a conspiracy that was uncovered after the false reporting was finished.
And who can forget the Hunter Biden laptop “conspiracy” to pretend that the laptop was Russian psychop. The entire Cathedral misinformed the public, including the FBI who at the time, HAD the laptop in its possession for almost a year and KNEW it was authentic.
So this Dominic guy sounds like the deep state himself, and this article to be giving a bit of cover to him and it.
Sorry Dom, the COVID response was an absolutely disastrous over-reach that has, and is, destroying the lives of millions. The fact that it was imposed by unaccountable bureaucrats and IYI academics is salt in the wound.
It brilliantly illustrates the damage done when policy is made by people who never themselves experience the consequences. Never again.
It was imposed by elected politicians, albeit after listening to advice.
Nonetheless a v interesting comparison between the western experience and that imposed by the CCP in a real Deep State.
China doesn’t have a deep state, it’s a dictatorship with control being overt
China doesn’t have a deep state, it’s a dictatorship with control being overt
It was imposed by elected politicians, albeit after listening to advice.
Nonetheless a v interesting comparison between the western experience and that imposed by the CCP in a real Deep State.
Sorry Dom, the COVID response was an absolutely disastrous over-reach that has, and is, destroying the lives of millions. The fact that it was imposed by unaccountable bureaucrats and IYI academics is salt in the wound.
It brilliantly illustrates the damage done when policy is made by people who never themselves experience the consequences. Never again.
The Covid response, and net zero, should remind us how incompetent the bureaucracy really is. Honest question, would the world be better and healthier today if we simply did nothing when it comes to Covid? That I honestly don’t know the answer says something about the incompetency of bureaucrats.
The benefit of hindsight a little there JV. And actually we seem to compare v favourably with China and CCP – a real Deep State of course.
The thing is we can openly debate what was learnt. A proper Deep State doesn’t allow that.
Only if we’re on Unherd. No open debate visible in MSM, the Deep State doesn’t allow that. See today’s revelation by Big Brother Watch that the comms for the pandemic were essentially run by the military.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNIcapT2dfI
Only if we’re on Unherd. No open debate visible in MSM, the Deep State doesn’t allow that. See today’s revelation by Big Brother Watch that the comms for the pandemic were essentially run by the military.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNIcapT2dfI
The benefit of hindsight a little there JV. And actually we seem to compare v favourably with China and CCP – a real Deep State of course.
The thing is we can openly debate what was learnt. A proper Deep State doesn’t allow that.
The Covid response, and net zero, should remind us how incompetent the bureaucracy really is. Honest question, would the world be better and healthier today if we simply did nothing when it comes to Covid? That I honestly don’t know the answer says something about the incompetency of bureaucrats.
”Cummings stressed that it was important to “disentangle” the term from the “Trumpian” iteration in which conspiracies abound. “The phrase can be problematic because you don’t want to encourage the idea that there is some sort of generalised conspiracy of officials to thwart democratic politics,””
Trump’s use of ‘The Deep State’ and ‘The Swamp are 100% correct!
These British, and West hating men like Hancock, Hunt, Sunak, Boris, Biden and every last one he has appointed – they are wicked, power driven, wealth driven traitors.
Both tools of the Deep State, and also heads of the Deep State, they use the 100% corrupt electoral Process to capture the nation that they may extract power, wealth, and prestige out of it.
The last 100 years of the Roman Empire the Emperors lasted mere years – then some distant General marched his Legions to Rome and killed the leaders and took the throne. In no time palace intrigue, or another General marching his Legions, killed that Emperor and took his throne. The resources of the State consumed by these evil and power mad men.
This was the ‘Decline’, this was sheer corruption, this was evil men destroying their civilization. This is the Western Democracies now.
Trump is the first man not a product of this sick power pyramid. He did not climb the greasy pole of party politics – selling his soul on the way up, to the Deep State – but came in from outside to Fix the sickness. Trump tells the truth, he is the last Patriot in Government almost.
The ‘Deep State’, which uses the MSM, Social Media, and Corporate power as their Praetorian Guards naturally had to destroy Trump – or surely he would destroy them.
That is why this worm Cummings has to add his digs at Trump – as Trumpianism is the only enemy the evil deep state has – What a nasty piece of work Cumming is. He would be at Tyburn if this Nation was not totally captured by the Dark Side, by the Swamp.
”Cummings stressed that it was important to “disentangle” the term from the “Trumpian” iteration in which conspiracies abound. “The phrase can be problematic because you don’t want to encourage the idea that there is some sort of generalised conspiracy of officials to thwart democratic politics,””
Trump’s use of ‘The Deep State’ and ‘The Swamp are 100% correct!
These British, and West hating men like Hancock, Hunt, Sunak, Boris, Biden and every last one he has appointed – they are wicked, power driven, wealth driven traitors.
Both tools of the Deep State, and also heads of the Deep State, they use the 100% corrupt electoral Process to capture the nation that they may extract power, wealth, and prestige out of it.
The last 100 years of the Roman Empire the Emperors lasted mere years – then some distant General marched his Legions to Rome and killed the leaders and took the throne. In no time palace intrigue, or another General marching his Legions, killed that Emperor and took his throne. The resources of the State consumed by these evil and power mad men.
This was the ‘Decline’, this was sheer corruption, this was evil men destroying their civilization. This is the Western Democracies now.
Trump is the first man not a product of this sick power pyramid. He did not climb the greasy pole of party politics – selling his soul on the way up, to the Deep State – but came in from outside to Fix the sickness. Trump tells the truth, he is the last Patriot in Government almost.
The ‘Deep State’, which uses the MSM, Social Media, and Corporate power as their Praetorian Guards naturally had to destroy Trump – or surely he would destroy them.
That is why this worm Cummings has to add his digs at Trump – as Trumpianism is the only enemy the evil deep state has – What a nasty piece of work Cumming is. He would be at Tyburn if this Nation was not totally captured by the Dark Side, by the Swamp.
Not much, perhaps nothing should be or can be run just by elected officials – they provide oversight, and policy direction, not day to day management and executive control. Imagine a hospital, military school, or even restaurant ‘run’ by an elected committee….. In our narcissistic times there are many voters who think democracy means that whatever they want should be enacted – even if it is not a majority position.
What we expect is an honest and open discussion of policy, not back door control.
What we expect is an honest and open discussion of policy, not back door control.
Not much, perhaps nothing should be or can be run just by elected officials – they provide oversight, and policy direction, not day to day management and executive control. Imagine a hospital, military school, or even restaurant ‘run’ by an elected committee….. In our narcissistic times there are many voters who think democracy means that whatever they want should be enacted – even if it is not a majority position.
This makes a lot of sense. In any government department (including police, courts, ministries) you will find people who believe in the purpose of the organisation, who understand how things work, who try their best to achieve good results, and who uphold a common culture where such things are done. Much like the engineers in a car producer are likely to share a commitment to make good cars. That is part of what makes organisations work. It is not without its drawbacks, of course – the goals that the culture make people seek may not (all) be what society would want. Still, a group of knowledgeable people who are dedicated to cure patients, put out fires, or maintain public order, are likely to deliver better outcomes than a bunch of short-termist mercenaries ruled by people who do not understand the business and who are mostly about getting good headlines right now.
That sounds a bit too much like an argument for more technocracy and less democracy.
Though often intelligent and competent Technocrats are often heavily siloed in their thinking. The technocratic mind is like the individual with a hammer who sees every problem as a nail. There is rarely a problem an expert believes cannot be solved by granting more resources to their area of expertise. They are excellent for achieving limited goals but not for balancing out the interests of numerous competing goals. Which is a key role of government.
Our democratic representatives should bring a wide ranging generalists knowledge to running the country, I know they often fall short of this ideal but having a democratically accountable body to temper the extremes of technocratic thinking is, I believe, important.
There should also be a distinction made between a technocrat saying something is not possible and one refusing to carry out instructions because they disagree with them. The governance of a country should ultimately be based on the values of the people who constitute it, not just the values of those who happen to be employed by the government.
“Though often intelligent and competent Technocrats are often heavily siloed in their thinking.”
True
“Though often intelligent and competent Democrats are often heavily siloed in their thinking.
Truer
“Though people are heavily siloed in their thinking.”
Truest
I’ll generally go with expertise.
Have you looked at the track record for supposed “experts” lately?
Yes, experts fail big time, as do non-experts, some of whom are called populists. Experts also profoundly disagree, and for every issue there are in fact a full spread of expert opinions – covid, Brexit, gun control, mental health, cultural, political issues etc. There is no single body of ‘expert opinion’, not matter what you read in the rag of your choice. So when an initiative fails there are, simultaneously experts proved right, and experts proved wrong. Human issues are not a hard science – we are in the infancy of working out The Truth in history, psychology, politics – and is not the same as The Truth in pure Arts – beauty may truly be in the eye of the beholder, but what a good life is, for example, is not merely an individual opinion.
Sorry, I’ve worked as a contractor in pretty well every department of state, local government, quangos and the NHS. The idea that any of these institutions are run by disinterested and wise ‘experts’ is pure self-delusion.
Not what I said Hugh.
Not what I said Hugh.
Unelected experts do not pay any price for their failures. Except in the most egregious cases where they face promotion. At least in Russia they have the decency to throw themselves from windows.
It is hardly a revelation to hear that the government of our country has been outsourced to unaccountable “experts”. Are they even experts? Many seem to be little more than the political motivated appointees of an earlier, and now discredited, regime.
I’ve no disagreement with the claim that the public sector/government is replete with incompetence – only, this is not the fault of ‘elites’ (as if there is even such a single entity with a single mind!). Rather it is a feature of humanity and of entropy. Public, private, educated, uneducated, elected, unelected, here are there, ineptitude is everywhere. Just recently it took five plumbers, six visits and some 40 man hours to correct the problem – the installer had plumber in & out pipes the wrong way around.
I’ve no disagreement with the claim that the public sector/government is replete with incompetence – only, this is not the fault of ‘elites’ (as if there is even such a single entity with a single mind!). Rather it is a feature of humanity and of entropy. Public, private, educated, uneducated, elected, unelected, here are there, ineptitude is everywhere. Just recently it took five plumbers, six visits and some 40 man hours to correct the problem – the installer had plumber in & out pipes the wrong way around.
Sorry, I’ve worked as a contractor in pretty well every department of state, local government, quangos and the NHS. The idea that any of these institutions are run by disinterested and wise ‘experts’ is pure self-delusion.
Unelected experts do not pay any price for their failures. Except in the most egregious cases where they face promotion. At least in Russia they have the decency to throw themselves from windows.
It is hardly a revelation to hear that the government of our country has been outsourced to unaccountable “experts”. Are they even experts? Many seem to be little more than the political motivated appointees of an earlier, and now discredited, regime.
‘Experts’? What on earth do we mean ? It’s chucked around so undefined as to be virtually meaningless. Not sure it generates much intelligent discourse really.
Yes, experts fail big time, as do non-experts, some of whom are called populists. Experts also profoundly disagree, and for every issue there are in fact a full spread of expert opinions – covid, Brexit, gun control, mental health, cultural, political issues etc. There is no single body of ‘expert opinion’, not matter what you read in the rag of your choice. So when an initiative fails there are, simultaneously experts proved right, and experts proved wrong. Human issues are not a hard science – we are in the infancy of working out The Truth in history, psychology, politics – and is not the same as The Truth in pure Arts – beauty may truly be in the eye of the beholder, but what a good life is, for example, is not merely an individual opinion.
‘Experts’? What on earth do we mean ? It’s chucked around so undefined as to be virtually meaningless. Not sure it generates much intelligent discourse really.
Technocrats will always be heavily siloed in their thinking, because they never have to engage with the public or answer to the public, and are mostly drawn from a narrow class of people at the middle to upper echelons of society.
Democrats / politicians may well be drawn from the same class of people, but at least they have to engage with and answer to the demos in order to retain their position.
I’ll generally go with democrats.
There speaks a man who works for the government.
Wrong. So when you’re ill you eschew help from the ‘elites’? If in legal trouble, you’ll represent yourself ….populism in action. The Darwin Award awaits!
Wrong. So when you’re ill you eschew help from the ‘elites’? If in legal trouble, you’ll represent yourself ….populism in action. The Darwin Award awaits!
Have you looked at the track record for supposed “experts” lately?
Technocrats will always be heavily siloed in their thinking, because they never have to engage with the public or answer to the public, and are mostly drawn from a narrow class of people at the middle to upper echelons of society.
Democrats / politicians may well be drawn from the same class of people, but at least they have to engage with and answer to the demos in order to retain their position.
I’ll generally go with democrats.
There speaks a man who works for the government.
“Though often intelligent and competent Technocrats are often heavily siloed in their thinking.”
True
“Though often intelligent and competent Democrats are often heavily siloed in their thinking.
Truer
“Though people are heavily siloed in their thinking.”
Truest
I’ll generally go with expertise.
“Who believe in the purpose of the organisation” – there’s the issue. What happens when the people elected into power (idiots or not) happen to disagree with them on what the organisation’s purpose should be, and were elected on that basis?
Then you get a fight. Thatcher took on the teaching unions and accepted teaching opinion, for instance. More recently it looks like the UK police needs some outside input, either to purge it of misogynists and rapists, or to get rid of the wokery (opinions diverge). Going back in time, the US armed forces got some heavy outside pressure before they accepted black soldiers. But maybe it is not a bad thing to have people sincerely dedicated to teaching children, keeping order in Britain, or defending the US running the show and giving their input. And if anyone who wants to make radical changes needs at least a plan, persistence, and some kind of talent to make their changes stick.
Then you get a fight. Thatcher took on the teaching unions and accepted teaching opinion, for instance. More recently it looks like the UK police needs some outside input, either to purge it of misogynists and rapists, or to get rid of the wokery (opinions diverge). Going back in time, the US armed forces got some heavy outside pressure before they accepted black soldiers. But maybe it is not a bad thing to have people sincerely dedicated to teaching children, keeping order in Britain, or defending the US running the show and giving their input. And if anyone who wants to make radical changes needs at least a plan, persistence, and some kind of talent to make their changes stick.
That’s fair enough. But over time the group of knowledgeable people are replaced by those who take over the organisation and use it for their own self interest. Mostly because the people who are best at getting on, get on.
I’ve argued before that any organisation that is around 70 years old or more has probably been captured by the careerists. Such organisations either require radical reform or winding up and starting again.
There is a difference between policy and implementation. Policy needs to have democratic oversight – essentially something set by amateurs and users. Implementation on the other hand is done by professionals. You want the best implementors, but they also need the people with them, and to be doing things the public asks for. You don’t want the implementors setting policy without a mandate, or believing they have control. The ideal is free citizens supported by public servants, not subjects under technocratic command.
Bollix. Humans en masse are not altruistic. Technocracies are driven just as much by the self interest of those in charge as any other form of oligarchy. In fact, technocracies are worse than other forms of oligarchy thanks to the tendency for technocrats to believe that what is good for them must be good for everyone.
That sounds a bit too much like an argument for more technocracy and less democracy.
Though often intelligent and competent Technocrats are often heavily siloed in their thinking. The technocratic mind is like the individual with a hammer who sees every problem as a nail. There is rarely a problem an expert believes cannot be solved by granting more resources to their area of expertise. They are excellent for achieving limited goals but not for balancing out the interests of numerous competing goals. Which is a key role of government.
Our democratic representatives should bring a wide ranging generalists knowledge to running the country, I know they often fall short of this ideal but having a democratically accountable body to temper the extremes of technocratic thinking is, I believe, important.
There should also be a distinction made between a technocrat saying something is not possible and one refusing to carry out instructions because they disagree with them. The governance of a country should ultimately be based on the values of the people who constitute it, not just the values of those who happen to be employed by the government.
“Who believe in the purpose of the organisation” – there’s the issue. What happens when the people elected into power (idiots or not) happen to disagree with them on what the organisation’s purpose should be, and were elected on that basis?
That’s fair enough. But over time the group of knowledgeable people are replaced by those who take over the organisation and use it for their own self interest. Mostly because the people who are best at getting on, get on.
I’ve argued before that any organisation that is around 70 years old or more has probably been captured by the careerists. Such organisations either require radical reform or winding up and starting again.
There is a difference between policy and implementation. Policy needs to have democratic oversight – essentially something set by amateurs and users. Implementation on the other hand is done by professionals. You want the best implementors, but they also need the people with them, and to be doing things the public asks for. You don’t want the implementors setting policy without a mandate, or believing they have control. The ideal is free citizens supported by public servants, not subjects under technocratic command.
Bollix. Humans en masse are not altruistic. Technocracies are driven just as much by the self interest of those in charge as any other form of oligarchy. In fact, technocracies are worse than other forms of oligarchy thanks to the tendency for technocrats to believe that what is good for them must be good for everyone.
This makes a lot of sense. In any government department (including police, courts, ministries) you will find people who believe in the purpose of the organisation, who understand how things work, who try their best to achieve good results, and who uphold a common culture where such things are done. Much like the engineers in a car producer are likely to share a commitment to make good cars. That is part of what makes organisations work. It is not without its drawbacks, of course – the goals that the culture make people seek may not (all) be what society would want. Still, a group of knowledgeable people who are dedicated to cure patients, put out fires, or maintain public order, are likely to deliver better outcomes than a bunch of short-termist mercenaries ruled by people who do not understand the business and who are mostly about getting good headlines right now.
‘Deep State thwarting Matt Hancock, the elected politician, for the benefit of the country…’
Politicians should be thwarted by the electorate, that’s the point of us. That is disgraceful. What happens if the deep state is corrupt and pulling the strings…
The Lizard people always say the ‘Deep State’ does not exist – or that is is just old guys dutifully at their desks working for your well-being.
This is lies. That big book all the people at Whitehall the bureaucrats use to set policy, and use as a guide for their work and goals, the book:
‘How to serve British People’
Its a Cook Book!
Lmao!
Hi Mr Moze Arundel is it? Looks like your style.
Lmao!
Hi Mr Moze Arundel is it? Looks like your style.
The Lizard people always say the ‘Deep State’ does not exist – or that is is just old guys dutifully at their desks working for your well-being.
This is lies. That big book all the people at Whitehall the bureaucrats use to set policy, and use as a guide for their work and goals, the book:
‘How to serve British People’
Its a Cook Book!
‘Deep State thwarting Matt Hancock, the elected politician, for the benefit of the country…’
Politicians should be thwarted by the electorate, that’s the point of us. That is disgraceful. What happens if the deep state is corrupt and pulling the strings…
There is a permanent state. And the most powerful part of that permanent state is the ‘permanent security state’ or as some would say, the deep state. In the US there are no less than 18 different security services. All of them operating, to some degree or another, in the shadows, with no public oversight. They are the ‘anonymous scources’ that feed the media. That fund the regime changes around the world. That set up institutions and think tanks to manipulate opinion. They pressure Twitter and Facebook.The world stage is like the theatrical one, you are never meant to see the big machine behind, under and above that stage. So things are working as they should.
There is a permanent state. And the most powerful part of that permanent state is the ‘permanent security state’ or as some would say, the deep state. In the US there are no less than 18 different security services. All of them operating, to some degree or another, in the shadows, with no public oversight. They are the ‘anonymous scources’ that feed the media. That fund the regime changes around the world. That set up institutions and think tanks to manipulate opinion. They pressure Twitter and Facebook.The world stage is like the theatrical one, you are never meant to see the big machine behind, under and above that stage. So things are working as they should.
You could shut down parliament and the country would toddle along quite happily. In fact, I think Belgium and Italy have both done it in past. I wonder if (a bit like putting your money in all share index fund) over time it might net the best result.
You could shut down parliament and the country would toddle along quite happily. In fact, I think Belgium and Italy have both done it in past. I wonder if (a bit like putting your money in all share index fund) over time it might net the best result.
So I had to Google this, being a fringe nerd you don’t get more exciting than deep state.
For everyone to make of what they will:
First. Deep state threat to boris:
https://www.indy100.com/politics/dominic-cumings-deep-state-boris
Quote: The former chief advisor claimed that Johnson is throwing junior staff under the bus and he has received multiple messages from them saying they “can’t WAIT” for the inquiry.
He went on, saying the “deep state will wreak revenge” on Johnson before the election in 2024, using a trolley emoji to represent Johnson because he’s allegedly easy to stear.
“Am getting lots of texts today like ‘I can’t WAIT for the inquiry, I took lots of notes’. #DeepState will wreak revenge on [Johnson] in 23, yr before election.”.
Wtf.
Linked off Cummings twitter where he wants to abolish the treasury??
https://amp.theguardian.com/books/2022/may/16/the-big-idea-should-we-abolish-the-treasury
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/03/07/world/europe/boris-johnson-dominic-cummings-civil-service.amp.html
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jan/14/intoxicating-insidery-and-infuriating-everything-i-learned-about-dominic-cummings-from-his-10-a-month-blog
Quote:
Trying to reshape how the British state works is at the heart of the Cummings project. It means putting the right people in charge: relentless, take-no-prisoners problem-solvers like himself. What makes Cummings’ view of politics so distinctive – and so powerful, or dangerous, depending on your point of view – is that he reverses the usual balance of personal and political prejudices
Sounds like there is some right dodgy old business going on.
So I had to Google this, being a fringe nerd you don’t get more exciting than deep state.
For everyone to make of what they will:
First. Deep state threat to boris:
https://www.indy100.com/politics/dominic-cumings-deep-state-boris
Quote: The former chief advisor claimed that Johnson is throwing junior staff under the bus and he has received multiple messages from them saying they “can’t WAIT” for the inquiry.
He went on, saying the “deep state will wreak revenge” on Johnson before the election in 2024, using a trolley emoji to represent Johnson because he’s allegedly easy to stear.
“Am getting lots of texts today like ‘I can’t WAIT for the inquiry, I took lots of notes’. #DeepState will wreak revenge on [Johnson] in 23, yr before election.”.
Wtf.
Linked off Cummings twitter where he wants to abolish the treasury??
https://amp.theguardian.com/books/2022/may/16/the-big-idea-should-we-abolish-the-treasury
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/03/07/world/europe/boris-johnson-dominic-cummings-civil-service.amp.html
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jan/14/intoxicating-insidery-and-infuriating-everything-i-learned-about-dominic-cummings-from-his-10-a-month-blog
Quote:
Trying to reshape how the British state works is at the heart of the Cummings project. It means putting the right people in charge: relentless, take-no-prisoners problem-solvers like himself. What makes Cummings’ view of politics so distinctive – and so powerful, or dangerous, depending on your point of view – is that he reverses the usual balance of personal and political prejudices
Sounds like there is some right dodgy old business going on.
The short response is, I couldn’t disagree with you more. Having unelected people making the decisions for our country when they don’t agree with whom we elected is completely unacceptable.
The short response is, I couldn’t disagree with you more. Having unelected people making the decisions for our country when they don’t agree with whom we elected is completely unacceptable.
The deep state is reality. When there’s a revolving door between the FDA and big pharma, it’s the general public who get shafted.
I almost forgot about this little gem:
https://www.science.org/content/article/hidden-conflicts-pharma-payments-fda-advisers-after-drug-approvals-spark-ethical?adobe_mc=MCORGID%3D242B6472541199F70A4C98A6%2540AdobeOrg%7CTS%3D1674855268&_ga=2.1795701.570708278.1674855268-733126316.1674855268
The deep state is reality. When there’s a revolving door between the FDA and big pharma, it’s the general public who get shafted.
I almost forgot about this little gem:
https://www.science.org/content/article/hidden-conflicts-pharma-payments-fda-advisers-after-drug-approvals-spark-ethical?adobe_mc=MCORGID%3D242B6472541199F70A4C98A6%2540AdobeOrg%7CTS%3D1674855268&_ga=2.1795701.570708278.1674855268-733126316.1674855268
“The fact that the quality of the people elected is so desperately bad now across Western governments that brilliant 30-year-old women who no one’s heard of or who no one’s elected are running things is actually for the good”.
No, rule by people, even “brilliant women”, that no one has heard of is NOT for the good, you elitist, tyranny-prone snob.
Basic civics: The way we deal with “desperately bad” people (which of course the Left defines as anyone not wholly on board with its agenda) is to VOTE THEM OUT.
“The fact that the quality of the people elected is so desperately bad now across Western governments that brilliant 30-year-old women who no one’s heard of or who no one’s elected are running things is actually for the good”.
No, rule by people, even “brilliant women”, that no one has heard of is NOT for the good, you elitist, tyranny-prone snob.
Basic civics: The way we deal with “desperately bad” people (which of course the Left defines as anyone not wholly on board with its agenda) is to VOTE THEM OUT.
He is right that the quality of elected politicians is intellectually very poor.
Even the brighter ones are largely innumerate arts graduates.
He is right that the quality of elected politicians is intellectually very poor.
Even the brighter ones are largely innumerate arts graduates.
A nuanced Article but Cummings continues to polarise so some useful insights may be lost.
Is the problem the use of the phrase ‘Deep State? It’s entered the lexion with a conspiratorial tinge. In fact, as in life, banal ‘c**k-up’ plays a much bigger role in what generally happens. IMO the ‘deep state’ thesis is often also used to justify why one can disengage from the complexity of policy formulation and delivery. Extolling a conspiratorial interpretation of why one doesn’t see things happening one wants or believes the majority want. Truth is it’s lazy, physically and intellectually. It plays well to keyboard warriors who really don’t want to do the hard-yards.
On the ‘Yes Minister’ theme – of course a trend of last 35 years has been an attempt at a counter balancing growth in Special Advisors, and that too draws fire as largely unaccountable. Cummings slightly ignores his own presence and the formal authority he was given.
The public realm though is not just reliant on elected politicians for accountability. We have other crucial components to plurality – free media being but one (And ok it’s not perfect but try out the Chinese or Russian versions). I also recently attended the AGM of my local hospital and got to ask questions. Etc etc. Unions, Think Tanks, the right to demonstrate, NGOs, campaign groups etc. More devolved power would clearly help too.
It ain’t perfect, but it’s not the malign hidden hand some have a vested interest in promulgating.
A nuanced Article but Cummings continues to polarise so some useful insights may be lost.
Is the problem the use of the phrase ‘Deep State? It’s entered the lexion with a conspiratorial tinge. In fact, as in life, banal ‘c**k-up’ plays a much bigger role in what generally happens. IMO the ‘deep state’ thesis is often also used to justify why one can disengage from the complexity of policy formulation and delivery. Extolling a conspiratorial interpretation of why one doesn’t see things happening one wants or believes the majority want. Truth is it’s lazy, physically and intellectually. It plays well to keyboard warriors who really don’t want to do the hard-yards.
On the ‘Yes Minister’ theme – of course a trend of last 35 years has been an attempt at a counter balancing growth in Special Advisors, and that too draws fire as largely unaccountable. Cummings slightly ignores his own presence and the formal authority he was given.
The public realm though is not just reliant on elected politicians for accountability. We have other crucial components to plurality – free media being but one (And ok it’s not perfect but try out the Chinese or Russian versions). I also recently attended the AGM of my local hospital and got to ask questions. Etc etc. Unions, Think Tanks, the right to demonstrate, NGOs, campaign groups etc. More devolved power would clearly help too.
It ain’t perfect, but it’s not the malign hidden hand some have a vested interest in promulgating.