'I suggest you don’t get too relaxed with the heavy-handed presence of the public censor.' Ian Forsyth/Getty Images

Have you heard the one about the Labour WhatsApp chat that got leaked? It was called “Trigger Me Timbers” and specialised in offensive banter. Health Minister Andrew Gwynne was the first and most high-profile group member to lose his job this week, before a second MP was reprimanded by the whips. Eleven local council members were also suspended for their contributions, reportedly including Gwynne’s wife. When I read about it, I laughed. Not at the sickening depravity of these people, you should understand, but at some of their material.
In particular, the puerility of Gwynne’s imaginary letter to a constituent raised a chuckle: “Dear resident, fuck your bins. I’m re-elected and without your vote. Screw you. PS: Hopefully you’ll have croaked it by the all-outs.” And I also enjoyed the Alan Partridge-like specificity of his death wish towards Nick the irritating cyclist: “I had positive visions of him getting mown down by an Elsa Waste HGV while he’s cycling to the Fallowfield Loop. We couldn’t be that lucky!” Most of the other stuff wasn’t up to much, though there was a passable riff on Black History Month involving Justin Trudeau.
As others in the press queue up to pass pained judgement on all the racism, sexism, homophobia, and ageism, I find myself at a loss. It seems a kind of amnesia has collectively infected nearly everybody, and I am one of the few remaining people with immunity. For I still remember the existence of a human activity called “joking”, and a particularly mordant variety of it called “black comedy”. As I recall, it used to be quite popular in the olden days, but has since gone the way of VHS and spangles. Quite possibly, everybody now thinks the name is racist.
Even weirder, the same affliction also seems to have obliterated a meaningful difference between “public” and “private”. Reading the press coverage with half an eye, you’d be forgiven for thinking Gwynne had hired Stockport Town Hall to try out a bold new stand-up routine. “Public” has now become synonymous with “potentially leakable” — which in practice means anything written down at all. You can question participants’ wisdom in committing their gags to a group chat — and, even more so, placing trust in whichever snake in their midst eventually grassed them up — but clearly they never intended the bantz to go mainstream.
An essential element of black or dark humour is the breaking of taboos. There are flagrant transgressions of morality codes; incongruent switches between earnest and bawdy registers; knowing double meanings, referring to things that can’t otherwise easily be said. Jonathan Swift did a lot of the latter — see a poem of his called “Oyster” (“No Colchester oyster/ Is sweeter and moister/ Your stomach they settle/ And rouse up your mettle.”) In the 20th century, this style of humour became especially literary: think of Nabokov’s Humbert Humbert calling the teenage Lolita, perfectly accurately, his “ageing mistress”; or Evelyn Waugh’s Basil Seal inadvertently eating his lover Prudence in a cannibal feast in the appropriately named Black Mischief.
But black comedy was in the street, playground, and pub first. In the 17th century, there were hundreds of iterations of a song called “The Black Joke”, where “joke” also stood for what one contemporary explainer called “the monosyllable” or “a woman’s commodity”. Under communism, Poles would tell gags about starvation and Jews would jokingly remember Auschwitz with fondness. Eighties America had Challenger disaster jokes, while Eastern Europeans found comedy in the aftermath of Chernobyl.
In the Nineties, the UK had the Diana version (sample: “Why is Di like a mobile phone? They both die in tunnels.”) These lines were barely about Diana the woman at all — or, indeed, about poor mobile phone reception — and much more to do with the public mood at the time. They were the privately anarchic counterpoint to the oppressively monolithic tide of grief washing over the nation, the equivalent to getting a fit of the giggles at a funeral. The more unseemly it was, the funnier it became.
Since social media is the new street corner, it’s only fitting that the fun would have migrated there. Giving a group chat a silly title is the new version of naming your pub quiz team “Gossip Girls” or “Breaking Bald”. And since moral codes are everywhere these days, the world should — in theory, anyway — be our oyster, as it were. Surrounded as we so often are by the earnest, the pinch-lipped, the fanatical and the hypocritical, verbal transgressions beckon temptingly from every angle. Yet most feel constrained from taking them up.
Part of the problem is that our age is simultaneously blighted with tedious people who want to make the whole practice of joking a taboo as well. Academics — not a demographic well-known for their airy badinage — have been doing their best on this front for ages. A joke, we are told with a stern face, creates an ingroup and an outgroup. Now, you might have thought this was superfluous information, since quite obviously it does. The outgroup is the person looking puzzled and saying “I don’t get it”, while the ingroup laughs uproariously at your lines. On the other hand, if the joke is poor, the outgroup is the odd person smirking, and the ingroup are the silent and bemused ones. That is part of the glorious jeopardy of joke-telling — will you bring these people into your world for a shared moment of laughter, or place yourself on the other side of theirs?
But it’s commonly supposed to be much worse than this. Many jokes don’t so much create outgroups as bully existing ones; they “dehumanise” and are part of “delegitimisation strategies”. They trade in racist, sexist and homophobic stereotypes; they mask aggression and contempt; they “punch down”. In vain might you point to distinguished satirical forebears. For now Swift is a misogynist, Waugh is a racist, and Nabokov is either a paedophile apologist or a kink-shamer, depending on who you are talking to.
In fact, two different things are going on here. Forty years ago, as I remember things anyway, there was no particular taboo about making jokes based on racist, sexist, or homophobic stereotypes. In my Scottish school playground, your currency as a funnyman was cemented by the number of terrible anti-Irish or anti-English jokes you could tell. Saturday-night TV lived for jokes about the ditziness of blondes, the bossiness of mothers-in-law, and the campness of gay men. Equally, though, as no taboos were being broken, these jokes didn’t count as especially “black”. Some of them were blue, but that’s different.
Yet now in the overreaching present, whole swathes of discourse have become effectively off-limits. These include not just unambiguously bigoted jokes, but any joke at all that vaguely references an ethnic minority or a woman or a gay person. If you want to be funny, you are best sticking to anodyne puns or Christmas cracker fodder, and even then the whole process can feel dangerously freighted with risk. To some, it is a time for repressing any intrusive comic thought at all for fear of what comes next. But for other more anarchic souls, it’s exactly the right time to start a WhatsApp group called “Trigger Me Timbers”.
That’s because making jokes the target of modern morality codes has enabled a whole new variety of black humour, where it didn’t previously exist. Now you can deliberately transgress those codes for shock value and the amusement of your mates. The more ponderously sanctimonious, humourless, and offence-seeking your conspecifics become, the greater the urge to puncture the mood by making a joke about some sacred totem of theirs: pensioners, say, or gay men, or Diane Abbott. And that was what Gwynne and co. were clearly doing in their group chat, at least partly. They were in the Labour Party, for God’s sake.
When the context is Stalinist Russia, black jokes against the regime, muttered on street corners to trusted confidantes, are viewed as a noble assertion of the indomitability of the human spirit. When you are in a Labour group chat slagging off Angela Rayner, it seems they most definitely are not. Gwynne’s edgelord schtick may not be to your personal taste, and you may be enjoying his demise for political reasons. Still, I suggest you don’t get too relaxed with the heavy-handed presence of the public censor. For all you know, it could be Breaking Bald next.
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SubscribeKathleen Stock is the sanest writer in print. Now here is a test: I was recently hospitalised with a huge haematoma on my right buttock. It swelled up to a disturbing size. The orthopaedic consultants came round and all commented on its extraordinary dimensions. I quipped, “Tell me about it. When I saw it in the mirror I thought my arse-cheek was attempting mitosis.” Four of the five roared with laughter; the fifth just looked puzzled. Ingroup – outgroup. It is most embarrassing for an orthopaedic consultant to forget stage one biology in front of her confrères. Should I have told the joke? (I did feel sorry for her.) What do others think?
Maybe she didn’t forget her biology lessons, but was wondering how her arse-cheek might look with a shaematoma?
Too soon ?
I smirked. After googling “mitosis”.
An (ex) academic and feminist and yet sane, human and with a balanced view on things. How did she manage it? Has she always been like this, or is this post academic clarity.
IMO when the $s were rolling in Stock kept schtum and looked the other way – they smell bad even when they’re burning – eh kathleen? now she’s been burned herself look see – she’s developed some independant thought. Still a died in the wool leftist though.
I’d like to think otherwise, but she might just be in her Robespierre era
Of course she was outspoken before being cancelled, how do you think “cancellation” occurred? Ms Stock didn’t change, the academic world around her changed.
Off course you should have joked, no question about it!
I gather that A&E departments of most of our major hospitals have a ‘museum’ of objects* extracted from the rectums of ‘patients’ who have somehow managed to inadvertently ‘fall’ on them! Humour at it best!
*Such as light bulbs, Marmite pots, Hornby OO Railway engines, Bananas et etc.
Having worked in A&E, if staff cannot make jokes about what walks or is carried through the door, many would be carried out with extreme stress. Same with fire fighters and police officers. How many members of the public have to deal with dead or beaten up bodies on a regular basis? Without dark humour, we will all be worse off. Those in other professions that care for and support damaged people also have a very dark sense of humour and it is to be taken for what it is, a reliever of stress when all around makes you want to cry and scream at the moon. If those who have never been there want to be prissy about it, my advice is hide under your duvet where it is safe and leave the rest of us alone!
Yes I worked in A/E for a decade and one of my favourite labels was “frequent flier” for the people who were such regular attenders we saw them monthly or more for their many complaints.
When my wife was a nurse she was involved in the removal of a bust of Napolean!
I think that’s a ‘cracking’ joke.
I think it’s always ok to say it when you’re the butt of the joke
I am so glad to have DVDs of Fawlty Towers and Are You Being Served! Not to mention Keeping Up Appearances.
Part of the history of British humour which we ex- colonials ( some at least) were taught to mimic.
I do hope you also have DVDs of Love Thy Neighbour and Come Fly With Me.
Unfortunately- no. These are perhaps of later vintage? 1980s and before stuff was staid and quaint by today’s standards in the use of English language, something Westernised Indians of earlier generations were more comfortable with.
In 1970s sitcoms based on “racism” the racist one always the middle aged Dad always ended up looking stupid and shown up as mean spirited and graceless. So far from being persecutory they were educational morality tales. But we didn’t have them on in our house. My Mums rule.
Rising Damp imagine the fainting at what Rigsby says to Philip.
Did Harry Enfield’s wonderful “Women know your limits” make it to the subcontinent?
Sadly no. Is there a message therein for clever ” wimmin”?!
Some might think so but not that many.
However it is some 30 years since it was first shown, and undoubtedly would cause outrage in say Quislington today for example.
I am sure my late father, something of an MCP by today’s enlightened standards would highly approve of Mr Enfield’s humour.
Undoubtedly!
Harry Enfield’s series pops up on one or other of the repeats channels that you find if you scroll down Freeview. Comes with a nice little trigger warning during the opening credits, of course. More pleasing was that arch leftie Carla Lane’s Bread comes with one also.
Thank you.
Yay – quislington!! i’ll add that to my Englischer vocab right now. Ever noticed how much quislings resemble each other? Corbyn is the doppelganger of young Varg Vikernes and Di-aaaanne Aaaabott could be Idi Amin’s sister.
The term was originally used on UH by one Fraser Bailey Esq about five years ago now.
I use it whenever possible in homage to him!
The humorless seek to ban humor because they fear the butt of the joke is themselves.
I think it is more that they feel stupid when they “don’t get it” – and the others around them do get it. To avoid this embarrassment in future they try and close these types of conversation down.
As it invariably is.
Advice given, ” learn to laugh at yourself first, as there is 9 billion people who are ready to get there before you”
‘Eighties America had Challenger disaster jokes…’
We had those at our school in the UK the day after Challenger exploded.
Anybody remember the jokes about the Townsend Thorenson ferry disaster?
I was going to mention that but restrained myself.
Something about rolling on and rolling off wasn’t it?
I recall one about rescuers finding a group of scousers still in the bar, who said “F off, we’re all inclusive!”
Ah, that was the “herald of free enterprise”, and how it was like a condom. What a bad name for a vessel!
There were lots. One about TT being a very successful ferry company – well they do have the biggest turnover.
Police approach a man stricken with grief over the loss of his wife. So sorry Sir but there is some good news, we’ve recovered your Volvo, lots of water damage but it did start first time.
“Seven Up and a dash of Teachers?”*
*A ‘Space Cocktail’ apparently.
Needs Another Seven Astronauts
“Ok we’ll let her drive for a bit” that was a good one.
Here’s one we had in the States.
Q: What color were Christa McAuliff’s eyes?
A: Blue…. one blew this way, the other blew that way.
Ok… off to confession now..
I’d not heard that one before. Incredibly bad taste – and very funny.
What did Donna Rice and Christine McAuliffe have in common ?
They both went down on the Challenger (remember Senator Gary Hart ?)
Where do US teachers go for their holidays? All over Florida
Ref. the picture ; I can’t imagine Sir DEI-ago telling a remote humorous joke but I can believe Angie would feign hysterical laughter.
What was the joke? “ You were right Angie I tried to run a bath this morning but just couldn’t manage it.” Or “Surely you meant Rachel couldn’t run a bath Angie” or “ I tried running a bath this morning but the left tap only dribbled so I couldn’t bear to get in”. Or “The right tap on my bath is totally seized up can you give it a whalop”.
Excellent piece. Nowadays, we are too ready to disapprove and judge; to express anger and attack. Can you imagine Fawlty Towers or Life of Brian being produced today?
Or even Derek and Clive.
Exhibit one, Radio 4 so-called comedy. And they still play laugh tracks with it. What a joke!
Reminds me of the “Yada, Yada” episode in Seinfeld where Jerry is outraged that his dentist converts to Judaism “for the jokes” as it gives him “joke telling immunity”.
What a cool, clear explanation of the obvious difference between use of free speech of any style as a means of “lightening” a situation and victimhood trolling.
I don’t want people sacked for jokes on a private messaging group.
But the political left and their sanctimonious progressive fellow travellers long ago weaponised performative outrage about everything, so I have zero sympathy for any Labour politician who now finds themselves on the wrong end of things.
A little detour into British film history if you’ll indulge me.
There is a wonderful 1960s British comedy called “School for Scoundrels” in which the great Alastair Sim plays a mysterious Mr. Potter who teaches one-upmanship to adult men who are failing in life, love, business etc.
During one lesson he demonstrates the technique. A student is asked to tell a joke, which turns out to be about a drunk man walking home with one foot in the gutter and believing he has one leg shorter than the other. While the rest of the class are laughing Sim walks across the room affecting a pronounced limp. The class is instantly deflated and the joke teller apologises profusely for his thoughtlessness.
Why do I mention this? Because I always think of it whenever I see the political left outraged about humour. Its not just that they lack a sense of humour, although that is often true as well, it is that they have learnt that being outraged about humour is a very effective tactic.
Delighted to see you resurrect One Upmanship. It does strike me that a lot of Woke is nothing but Potter’s One Upmanship. School for Scoundrels indeed.
I recall that movie, and in particular how Sim’s character expertly explains how to trip people up with their own words and to place them on the back foot in any argument. It was very cleverly written.
Is the 1960’s film an adaptation of the Richard Brinsley Sheridan play of the same name?
Wasn’t that “The School for Scandal”?
I think the inspiration was Stephen Potter’s books entitled, if memory serves, Gamesmanship and One-upmanship.
Exactly so. I haven’t thought of Stephen Potter in a long, long, time, well before the Web came along. Wikipedia has a very good article on him and actually mentions the “School for Scoundrels”.
An excellent film but one small point, the Partymanship instructor Mr. Pickthorn was played by High Paddick.
thats the best comment ive read in ages. And a very good general guide: everything the left does is neither frivolous or stupid; its always dangerous and thought through to achieve their vile aims. we just assume they’re stupid or petty because we, deep down, believe they generally share the same aims as normal, decent people. but they don’t. the underlying aim is “everything that exists must be destroyed”.
Are their aims vile? They would say just the opposite, that everything they do is prompted by compassion and the moral code of Jesus. And they have a point.
I don’t want them sacked for the jokes either. But I would like them to be banished to a remote island in the Arctic Circle without warm clothing for their gross hypocrisy.
I do not know.
It is still seemingly OK to call a white policeman stupid and white so perhaps not all is lost
Did she claim it was simply banter or black humour?
To use a technical term, wasn’t she ‘pissed’ at the time?
Falling down knickers off in the gutter so.
*Did she claim it was simply banter or Black humour?
I was wondering if opposing supporters might chant “you’re stupid and you’re half white” at Ms Kerr whenever she got the ball. But, of course, that would be racist and Kick it Out would get their knickers in a twist. Then it occurred to me that there’s probably nobody on the terraces watching anyway.
They are eating each other now and it’s a joy to behold. I have never understood why politicians seek to adopt moral superiority; they are doomed to fail!
ikr? since most normal ppl can leave out race/sex/weight abuse in their day to day lives its great to see the left for what they are – racist, sexist dirt bags. I see their water carrier “Peter Kay” is now unloading on ppl with a larger BMI than the communist NHS praises. 1. ever seen the NHS staffers- ? they ate all the pies that 2. Mr Kay didn’t have room for. The fat see you next tuesday could lose a lot of pounds and still go on a diet!
Like you I have zero sympathy for a leftwing hypocrite hoist on a leftwing petard.
However what would make this episode especially delicious is if the political Right now goes in and saves Andrew Gwynne from formal legal action, perhaps via Toby Young’s Freedom of Speech Union or something.
Don’t forget, politics is mostly about playing to the gallery. This is an open goal in front of the ever-increasingly beleaguered group of people who class themselves as genuinely liberal.
According to the FSU email I received as a member, the FSU has in fact “reached out” to Gwynne.
I really should read my own FSU emails. I’m a member too
I got that message also. Well, they’re being consistent. TBH Gwynne’s behaviour suggests that Labout MPs aren’t totally devoid of humour, like Starmer.
Humour often has an edge of cruelty, but cruelty with an edge of humour is not the same thing.
It’s better,to quote Shakespeare..”she hath often dreamt of unhappiness and wakes herself with laughing…”
I remember going into the office one day soon after the funeral of Diana and found them all discussing a TV programme about spontaneous combustion and how the burnt area of of the body of someone who had spontaneously combusted was localised with the extremities completely untouched by heat and how this might be evidence of body fat playing a role in the mystery.
I said “It seemed to me he lived his life like a candle in the wind ”
Complete silence.
Yes – i recall that day too – on a bender at a campsite in Cornwall i went to the local corner shop at 0730 to grab a 12 pack of Stella.. to be told they were suddenly “closing” due to Priceness Die. Thankfully Mr Ahmed a few doors down opened at 8 ish and we got our ale. He didn’t seem phased by the “candle in the wind” which is the wierdest euphemism i’ve ever heard for “hooker” or “courtesan”.
Yes, wasn’t that whole PD thing ridiculous*?But sadly a harbinger for even worse when Covid turned up!
*I recall driving up a teddy bear strewn M1 the day after the funeral.
I don’t think the UK has ever recovered from that utterly pathetic national bout of lachrymose emotional incontinence. It never went away, it just found new opportunities for performative ersatz grief. And it makes no difference whether the target is deserving of genuine compassion either: both George Floyd and your granny during Covid are the same as far as this thick-headed attitude is concerned.
I was also on a campsite, in the Vendee with my girlfriend and our two small children, when the new broke. For the rest of our holiday the place was swarming with teenage English girls walking around arm-in-arm and glaring at anyone who had the effrontery not to be blubbing.
We sailed that day – in a race – and just before the start they were all throwing flowers on the water.
OTOH – best one I heard a few days after the crash
“Did you hear Diana? She was on the radio the other day … and the windscreen and the dashboard….”
I’ll get me coat
Best one I recall was from Volvo cars. The next day or maybe 2) their advert, full page, was ‘If she’d been in a Volvo she’d still be alive’ For some reason Mercedes (car suppliers to the Nazi Party), complained!
It is also the case that people tend to make jokes about those they have to deal with, and take seriously, most of the time. Doctors about patients, husbands and wives about each other, teachers and pupils likewise. And anybody with power over you.
No surprise if MPs have a go at constituents. Nor does this mean that they don’t take them seriously the rest of the time. Or behave professionally. It’s letting off steam.
Have you heard the one about the university lecturer who jerked awake one morning realising that she hadn’t woke?
A very poor effort, I agree. Surely, a joke is a joke unless it’s about you personally; then it becomes an attack. Especially if you hear the joke about you going around and around and not stopping soon.
“Evelyn Waugh’s Basil Seal inadvertently eating his lover Prudence in a cannibal feast in the appropriately named Black Mischief.”
And poor Basil unable to recount the experience – his audience back home was simply not interested (darling)!
Pitifil. Ignore what is going on again Unherd.
People are today afraid to say what they think because they can be locked up for it.
Another writer from the Left unable to say what is happening because that would mean attacking the dominant Left world view which they share.
In particular NON-CRIME HATE INCIDENTS* which are straight out of “1984” or “Brave New World”.
*NCHI.
Does Kathleen Stock support Non Crime Hate incident reporting?
I would be very disappointed if she did!
What about you?
No , just wondering if Littlewood thought Stock was a writer of the left keen to support NCHI? Like you I would be disappointed if she did.
She still has leftist tendencies. She was a lecturer at Essex university and then Sussex. Two of the wokest universities in the country. She was quite happy in her political cocoon until leftist ideology moved on and left her behind.
Labour censored this rather sad man because their voters object keenly to sexist, transphobic, heteronormative and racist rhetoric.
He could have got away with the anti-Semitic stuff, however, but the offence came as a package.
I thought it was brilliant. These remarks should be published. It’s hilarious. And when one Yid is single handedly resurrecting every medieval Jew Hate trope that ever existed,well theyve got it coming to them. Anyway there is NO LAW laying down that everybody has to LOVE US and wipe our bums same the other way round. It’s not illegal to dislike hypocrite land stealing murderers
It shouldn’t be forgotten though, that 800,000 Jews were exiled and dispossessed by Arab countries in 1948. The state of Israel was also established in the hope of preventing another Holocaust. Hypocrisy has many adherents.
If it was any other group, I wouldn’t care. I don’t find the examples particularly funny, but that’s irrelevant. We say much, much worse about each other and various people in the public eye in private messaging groups amongst friends.
What makes this different is that this is amongst people who are actively trying to criminalise people for doing exactly this in private. That means they lose all leeway.
Not many years ago a male comedian made a rather amusing yet somewhat tasteless joke comparing a Royal birth with a Chimpanzee. He was instantly dismissed by the BBC.
Not long afterwards a large female comedian and former NHS worker made a very unpleasant joke about throwing battery acid* in someone’s face. Was she likewise dismissed by the BBC? Certainly not! She was an untouchable member of the Gynarchy!
Thus has humour almost died in this little ‘sceptred isle’ of ours.
*A popular method of attack among certain London ‘tribes’ at that time.
Yes i remember that – apparently the perp worked in “mental health” where abuse of the defenceless mentally ill was routine. Lex Talionis says we find the most “bull-goose loony” out there and give them 15 mins alone with the perp and a selection of hand tools.
‘Gynarchy’.
I love it!!
Someone in the group or in the know decided to take a wrecking ball to Gwynne’s career. Nobody really believes it revealed anyone’s actual thoughts or opinions. As Morrissey sang, “We hate it when our friends become successful.”
Knowing what is allowed to be made fun of and how genuinely vindictive – or otherwise – the jokes are is part of belonging to a community. Different cultures have distinct senses of humour but a ‘multicultural society’ doesn’t seem to have a plan for this. The only way to paper over these cracks is to get all Puritanical on our asses, and abolish humour.
One of the best black jokes I remember was a printed cartoon, probably 10/15 years ago of a woman in full burka/hijab, etc, looking at her backside, sideways-on in a mirror. Her husband is behind her and she says, ‘does my bomb look too big?’
One I’ll never forget was from a David Letterman “top 10” list of reasons to like the US invasion of Iraq: “Bomb blasts may blow the veils off hot Iraqi babes.”
Similarly, when she started out on the standup circuit, Shaparak (Shappi) Khorsandi asked: Does my bomb look big in this?
Kathleen Stock nails it again!
It’s not just humour: it’s everything, everywhere.
See the ridiculous sight of some lickspittle, promoted well above her ability, in the Edinburgh tribunal. To paraphrase: ‘does long hair make a woman?’ ‘No.’ ‘Lipstick?’ ‘No.’ ‘Women’s dresses?’ ‘Well, if this is how someone identifies…’
As I saw someone comment on Twitter, ‘the cuckoo has jumped out of the clock’. We’re supposed to agree with absurdities but God forbid you find humour in them.
Thank goodness for Kathleen. I think I said something similar when asked by an acquaintance.
Also, how on earth is Labour to rule and throw people in jail for ridiculous ‘hate speech’ when they aren’t doing the same for their own politicians behaviour?
Everyone needs to take a step back.
I’m sorry but I totally disagree; this is not banter. This is what they themselves describe ‘hate speech’ when others use such language. So I find it contemptible to pretend otherwise. We can’t have one rule for them and one for us.
Unless I have missed a sarcasm you seem to explicitly refute, I would suggest that your conclusion is a trap. What they call ‘hate speech’ is…often funny, and in any case necessary to free political discourse. It is the fact of a political correctness standard being imposed that is the bigger problem: the hypocrisy comes along for the ride. There is no contradiction in hypocrites throwing their fellow travellers under the bus. Indeed, that method tracks the history of Stalinism. We can’t have one rule for them and one for us: we must all reject the imposition of such oppressive abuse of social and political power.
National Socialism is an illness which infects 99% of labour types. There’s no “black humor” about it -just petty crime against the defenceless.
wonder who was the snitch?
Lenny Bruce would think it’s 1960.again, or worse
Big shoutout to Jerry Sadowitz, still with us.
The creation of the microaggression has been one of the most divisive and repressive ideas in recent society. Even worse is the idea that a microaggression deserves a macro-offence in return. The death of polite tolerance and the birth of concocted performative outrage.
Great essay! The woke mind virus is breaking in America, I hope this trend is one of the things that makes it over the pond.
Let us pray for the end of the virus, but also do not forget the crimes – racism, sexism and random violence which the virus unleashed. The perps stupidly left an online trail of evidence – which can be brought to law in a courts’ martial or similar. They are illegal combatents (cowards who attack only civilians) and need to be treated as such. I expect the “azov battalions” are getting a bit twitchy now Trump AND Putin have got them in their sights. The virus itself has no limit – they support Soviet death camps and then applaud the sunwheel tattoos of the extreme right. Labour = stupid or what?
It was a private chat group. I don’t really care what they say amongst themselves but I do believe such hubs should vet and approve their members more carefully if this is the kind of milieu they’re seeking to perpetuate. It’s a bit like forming a team for your front bench when you’re elected to govern the party. More tricky than it looks, it seems.
Yes but its good to see what labor in UK are: racist, misogynist, violent and homophobic. TBH bit like parts of the Tory party in the 70s and 80s BUT the Tories seem to have gotten over it since.
Hmmm … not sure. When a person tries to walk their talk, in all aspects of their life, because they believe in what they are doing, then that integrity shines through. No matter the pressures, I have never felt the need to make private, disparaging comments about those who have entrusted their problems to me. Mr Gwynne was employed to champion those problems and belittled them to others. I REALLY wouldn’t want him as my MP. As health secretary? Please, no.
UnHerd,
We really need trigger warnings on photos like the one illustrating this essay. Horrifying! The stuff of nightmares!
But credit where credit is due; “Trigger Me Timbers” is a great name.
Otherwise, just the usual eye-opening and thoroughly enjoyable scribblings from Prof. Stock.
Thanks.
PS That 51st State offer is still semi on-the-table. There’s still room under the 1st Amendment umbrella. We could talk.
JD Vance will tell you what our problem is. But but not K Stock. Not Unherd.
Many a true sentiment is expressed in jest. An MP unwilling to be involved in constituents’ problems should rightly be ‘defrocked’.
Beautifully expressed.
Adding anything more would be gilding a lily.
It’s the medium that’s the issue, more than what was said. It shows a ridiculous lack of judgement. I understand the black humour argument here but it’s sunk by both the medium and the context. Bunch of idiots.
“now in the overreaching present, whole swathes of discourse have become effectively off-limits. ”
The point is KS, that these particular (Labour) whatsAppers would almost certainly have hypocritically called out anyone making the same jokes – given the opportunity. THAT’S why I am happy to pass judgement on all the racism, sexism, homophobia, and ageism they spouted. When we can all do it without fear then I know we’ve got past the censoriousness of the illiberal fascist Left.
“Gwynne’s edgelord schtick may not be to your personal taste, and you may be enjoying his demise for political reasons. Still, I suggest you don’t get too relaxed with the heavy-handed presence of the public censor. For all you know, it could be Breaking Bald next.”
As a small c conservative I agree. Gwynne shouldn’t have apologised. he should have told his woke scolders to go fk themselves.
The King’s gambit. Never apologise. Never explain.
I have always looked forward to the first sick joke to be doing the rounds when there has been a disaster of some kind. The tradition had seemed to die out but seemingly has been resurrected as I heard one recently (probably because Twitter is now X and offensive jokes are allowed) though unfortunately don’t remember it. It is part of the quintessential English coping mechanism, breaking the tension. Plus there are the delightfully offensive ones. I remember when Marc Bolan died, the joke was: what was Marc Bolan’s last hit? A tree. The England supporters used to chant two world wars and one World Cup when England was playing Germany. When England won the rugby World Cup, the Australians complained that without Johnny Robinson, England would have lost. England’s response, a joke: Why have Durex closed all their factories in Australia? Because it only takes one Johnny to F the whole of Australia. People were also asked if they had heard about the new Australian whine. The problem seems to a certain extent, the feminisation of society. Women tend to use nice/nasty to manipulate. Men bond over jokes and banter. In general of course, not every member of the group. The ascent of social justice theory and the notions of punching up and punching down, in which white men occupy the top tear and are almost always punching down though I guess Germany and Australia are mostly fair game.
Also China and Russia, but definitely NOT Israel!
I am delighted you are back commenting Charles. I actually thought you were dead and mourned you so it feels rather like a resurrection.
Thank you!
‘The Reaper’ certainly took a good swipe, but missed!
I guess you are a tough old boot and wish you many more years.
Here is a joke for you from Twitter (X), a very gentle one, just poking fun at Labour for blaming Amazon for the Southport atrocities:
The history books are fake news.
Julius Caesar could not have been stabbed in 44BC when Amazon was only founded in 1994.
‘“Public” has now become synonymous with “potentially leakable” — which in practice means anything written down at all.’
Another super article by Kathleen Stock, for which my thanks!
She is soooo right in stating this. Everything you write (however trivial – e.g. piece of scrap paper), and record is instantly replicable into formats that can be shared simultaneously with millions of people.
We have become repressed, suppressed and gagged by a technology that has been captured by the Woke ruling elites and turned effectively against us.
Whilst it may be a truism that revenge is a dish best served cold, I must confess to enjoying my Schadenfreude fresh.
They appear to possess the same moral compass the saintly Gordon Brown laid claim to until he encountered “that bigoted woman”.
Vance said in his Munich speech he would fight for free speech and that in Europe everyone could contribute to debate. About 3 people clapped. What a disgraceful moment.
They all looked grim in the audience, just as I expect also in the Unherd offices.
And Anita Anand’s BBC commentary was simply dreadful! Even my Spaniel howled out loud!
However Fred Fleitz Vice Chairman of ‘America First’ put her in her place, much to my amusement!
Saw the speech. Thought like you do. Or they all turned off their interpreters
Why does it take an American to say the obvious?
Because nobody else “has the guts” as we used to say?
Vance criticised the decision to abort the Romanian elections and one person clapped.
And one for you Unherd.
Vance says it is important for all points of view to be heard.
“You cannot win a democratic mandate by censoring your opponents and putting them in jail.”
Tommy Robinson is just that. Starmer is a disgrace for being party to that, and Unherd is a disgrace for refusing to report on this.
Are you in favour of abolishing libel laws so that anyone can spread lies about you?
What lies did Tommy Robinson spread?
Read: https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/Hijazi-v-Yaxley-Lennon-judgment-220721.pdf
The audience are in shock I think. No one laughed at his Greta/Elon Musk joke.
Well done Vance. He gave them a talk on Democracy and they hated it.
Pensioners are hardly a sacred totem of Labour. That’s why it was hard to find Gwynne’s mock email about wanting old people to die entertaining. It was a cold, contemptuous response entirely in keeping with Labour’s attitude to the old, not a joke in any shape or form.
I’ve always thought of expressing jokes or making off comment remarks as a bit of a safety valve. I’m afraid that if we all become afraid of doing that without fear of repercussions (added to being mindful of not expressing micro aggression at work for instance), something’s going to explode.
I would like to nominate this article and comments as AOTY. Article of the Year. Love it.
Thank you for such a great piece of journalism .. reminding me how far the pendulum has swung.
Recent news headlines on why Britain doesn’t return immigrant criminals to their native lands is making a mockery of our judicial system.
The rewriting / erasing of British history by removing monuments is farcical .. far better to leave history in its place and realise how ‘far’ we have moved ‘on’ from those times.
Being the ‘black sheep’ of a family or having the ‘black dog’ all very well understood expressions, criticised by the awful modern day morality force.
Life is becoming boring and a real pain.
A private group on WhatsApp should be considered private IMO. However, given the gloating press release from the CPS in Dec 2023, when 6 ex-Met officers were convicted under the Communications Act in similar circumstances and given suspended prison sentences, if Gwynne is not prosecuted it simply confirms the existence of two tier policing.
For me, few do this humor better than Jimmy Carr.
“When I was in school, my best friend got expelled when he was caught whacking off in the shower.
It completely ruined the class trip to Auschwitz.”
Thank God for Kathleen Stock. She’s medicine for when you think you’ve gone mad. Those teeny tw-ts at Sussex did us a very good turn by driving her out of the academy and into the media.
Perfect, thank you for defending sanity, sentience, and the rejecting the demand of the suffocatingly sanctimonious that we need their permission to be alive.
Yes I agree. Banter among friends and colleagues in private is no one else’s business.
This is 2024.
Back when e-mail first became an office thing I started providing written advice to every subordinate in every department I ever led. That advice was quite simple:
“Never send any electronic communication that you would not want to see printed verbatim the next day in a national newspaper.”
While I have sympathy for all idiots everywhere, it is with the understanding they are still idiots.
No way to fix that.
I hope you include yourself in the ‘idiot’ category, unless of course you want to appear arrogant and smug.
This particular situation aside, it seems a little disingenuous to claim all “offensive” humour is innocuous. Anyone who has dealt with children will have heard the defense “I was just joking”, when they are pulled up for some comment they have made when they were being a nasty little shit. Similarly when I was growing up I heard plenty of jokes comparing the indigenous people to sewerage. Times change thankfully.
I remember:
Q. Why do people in Hungerford go shopping on Saturday mornings?
A. It’s murder in the afternoon.
Boom boom.
Sorry, but I’m not going to stop laughing because someone might be upset.
Forgive my American ignorance, but is this English?
All-outs, polling day.
George Orwell saw this coming a long time ago. The Party has no tolerance for humor. Anything that does not advance the interests of the Party will be crushed.
It’s sad that the UK had fifty years of warning about this, and they still fell for it. More and more I feel like these developments are deliberate – if not deliberate ends in themselves, they are ancillary effects of some overall deliberate plan. Whatever is at the end of this road, I doubt it will be good for the proles.