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Meet the three types of rioter Far-Right thugs weren't the sole perpetrators

Rioters set fire to Sunderland (Drik/Getty Images)

Rioters set fire to Sunderland (Drik/Getty Images)


August 15, 2024   5 mins

Since the first spark was lit in Southport, condemnation of the rioters has largely centred on their identity as “far-Right thugs”. Indeed, some experts, including the former head of British counter-terrorism policing, have gone as far as to call the rioters terrorists. The headlines wrote themselves. For an outraged-fuelled media, Christmas had come early.

Yet dig a little deeper and things become a tad more nuanced. For all the caustic characterisations thrown the rioters’ way, their motives were far more complex and varied.

Thus far, police have made more than 1,000 arrests connected to the riots. More than 40 people have already been sentenced and that number is likely to rise markedly in the coming weeks. Already, however, what is striking about this group is their heterogeneity. Among the not so usual suspects: a 43-year-old woman who pushed a wheelie bin at police; a 34-year-old homeless mother-of-five who contrived to do the same, but instead ended up face-planting at the feet of her intended target; a 25-year-old homeless man; an 18-year-old with ADHD, a 15-year-old girl and a 15-year-old boy; a bingo-playing gay couple; and a 69-year-old retired welder.

The nature and seriousness of the violence of the rioters seems to vary greatly too, ranging from vandalism on cars to punching a police officer in the face. While the worst of the violence was very grave indeed — a library was torched and sacked in Liverpool, and there were attempts to set fire to hotels housing asylum seekers — some was more ridiculous than properly lethal: one teenager, aged 19, lobbed an egg at the police while chanting in support of Tommy Robinson.

Yet while there doesn’t seem to be a single profile of a rioter, three profiles have emerged — profiles that, ultimately, we need to distinguish if we’re to understand why these riots took place. Based on trial information and extensive online footage of the riots, they are: Combatants, Geezers and Scallies, and Losers.

The first group — Combatants — refers to the kind of rioter that many have in mind when invoking the image of the far-Right thug: namely, inveterate racists alongside self-proclaimed patriots motivated by fears about white replacement and hostility to the British state and police for their perceived collusion in this. Combatants are almost exclusively men who see themselves as defenders not only of English culture, but as the protectors of English women and girls — from, in their eyes, the rapacious sexual desires of non-white, and especially Muslim, immigrant men.

Despite this relatively strict categorisation, what remains unclear is how many Combatants were involved in the riots, how much of the violence they were responsible for, and whether that violence had been planned in advance. Nor do we know whether they were members or affiliates of organised far-Right groups or looser networks of ex-EDL activists and hooligans, like 28-year-old Liam Ryan who assaulted a black man during unrest in Manchester city centre and was already subject to a football banning order.

The second group — Geezers and Scallies — refers to older and younger men respectively with criminal backgrounds whose participation in the riots was motivated not by any considered ideological grievances, but an abiding interest in manufacturing mayhem and the drama of violent contention. Historically, riots have always attracted this kind of dissolute stress-seeker, because they present ripe opportunities for a tremendous tear-up, including hand-to-hand combat with reviled authorities and the ritualised looting of goods that are later invariably discarded or destroyed.

Unlike the violence of Combatants, there is no instrumental logic to the violence of Geezers and Scallies: it is done and enjoyed for its own sake, because it’s thrilling and existentially satisfying. At the same time, this doesn’t mean that the violence is senseless; indeed, during much of the past fortnight’s disorder, it’s hard to miss the blatant defiance, spite and mockery on show towards the police. One rioter, for example, prior to having a brick thrown at his groin, danced effeminately in front of riot police, an act of mockery that was captured in camera-phone footage that swiftly went viral.

“Unlike the violence of Combatants, there is no instrumental logic to the violence of Geezers and Scallies.”

The final group — Losers — refers to that type of rioter, both male and female, whose participation in the riots was spontaneous and situational. Many of these accidental rioters were drunk when they entered the fray, either because they’re alcoholics or had been out on a bender or both; one 30-year-old rioter who hurled metal sheeting at police in Hartlepool had reportedly drank 30 cans of larger and had no memory of his involvement in the disorder. For some, it was the first time they had been in serious trouble with the police before, unlike the other two categories of rioters, many of whom have extensive rap-sheets.

It isn’t fully clear why the roughly dozen Losers sentenced so far participated in the violence, and none can coherently explain it, other than that something in the spectacle of violence beckoned them to enter it and join in the communal revelry of semi-authorised transgression. This is something most now deeply regret and not a few have sought to distance themselves from the ideological convictions of the Combatants they were rioting alongside. For example, Kieron Gatenby, whose sentence of 16 months in prison for lobbing an egg at police in Hartlepool seems especially harsh, did not harbour any racist views, according to a probation report. “He says he is disgusted at being involved with people who were chanting racist slurs,” Gatenby’s solicitor told Teesside Crown Court at his sentencing hearing. Similarly, it transpired at the hearing of Stacey Vint that her involvement in the riots in Middlesbrough was animated more by alcohol than ideology.

Of course, the overall picture may yet change. But it does seem to suggest that the narrative that the riots were wholly the handiwork of far-Right thugs is oversimplistic. Many of the rioters didn’t see themselves as part of some political resistance; they were bored and some were angry.

The other salutary effect of looking at the profiles of the rioters is that it humanises them: in those pallid and lived-in faces in the police mugshots, we see a cross section of English working-class people from mostly northern towns. We read reports of teenage boys and girls who were involved in the disturbances and perhaps wonder about their turbulent lives and “lived experience” of white privilege. We read about someone like Stacey Vint, who is homeless because she fled an abusive relationship, and perhaps feel a stab of sympathy for her — or at least some sense of injustice that she was given such a punitive sentence (20 months in prison).

By contrast, you don’t find much humane empathy towards the rioters on social media or in the liberal press, but instead contempt and loathing. This expresses itself in different ways, one of which is a blatantly classist revulsion that sees the rioters as an odious and atavistic skidmark on multicultural society. The other is a kind of elite disdain that hides its moral revulsion under the cover of alarmist concern over the “radicalisation” of white working-class people; here, ordinary aspects of white working-class culture such as piss-taking are interpreted as signs of extremism in precisely the same way that ordinary aspects of conservative Islam were once red-flagged by Right-leaning terrorism experts like Sebastian Gorka.

None of this is to say that we should be sentimental or lenient towards the rioters. But it is imperative that we avoid painting them all with the same brush — and that means doing the more painstaking work of looking closely at their profiles and motives. Those who do otherwise — whether they are the Prime Minister, a think-tanker or a grifter angling for the Government’s attention — can call the rioters far-Right thugs or even terrorists if they like. But they shouldn’t kid themselves that they’re doing anything other than playing the grubby game of politics, much less providing any understanding of why the riots unfolded, and how they could unfold again.


Simon Cottee is a senior lecturer in criminology at the University of Kent.


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Right-Wing Hippie
Right-Wing Hippie
2 months ago

Kieron Gatenby, whose sentence of 16 months in prison for lobbing an egg at police in Hartlepool seems especially harsh
He got off lucky; lèse-majesté has traditionally been considered treason.

UnHerd Reader
UnHerd Reader
2 months ago

Should’ve thrown the book at that egg-throwing terrorist! Of course if he only reverts to our state-sanctioned religion he can go around breaking female officers’ noses at airports with impunity. Good to see our justice system working as intended.

j watson
j watson
2 months ago
Reply to  UnHerd Reader

Yes does seem disproportionate, but get yourself mixed up in a riot and this sort of thing happens as any Govt has to make ‘examples. The chap who was tackled at the airport will be going down too, you can be sure of that. fact he was kicked by the PO won’t save him from that.

Peter B
Peter B
2 months ago
Reply to  j watson

If you’re going to “make examples” (I agree, we should), you should at least choose good examples.
I don’t recall people who throw eggs at politicians being jailed (yes, I do regard that as less serious than throwing eggs at policemen, but it was only an egg).
It seems likely that this young man simply got swept up in the excitement and chaos – and possibly peer pressure – and was acting without any serious intent or thought. It happens. I suspect that none of us have been in that type of situation and don’t know how we’d respond.

Liakoura
Liakoura
2 months ago
Reply to  Peter B

You might be right but I doubt this was an ‘oh there’s a riot down the road, I’ll nip into Tesco for half a dozen eggs’ situation. This could have been an intention or desire to commit a criminal act without justification or excuse and with some degree of deliberation, premeditation, planning or wanton disregard for the injury it might cause.

j watson
j watson
2 months ago
Reply to  Peter B

Context is everything. Chuck an egg at a politician during their peaceful walk around and whilst I think you should be charged and fined it’s not the same as chucking anything when a riot taking place.

Hazel Gazit
Hazel Gazit
2 months ago
Reply to  j watson

I am not holding my breath. This is a classic case of two tier policing because of the religion of the thugs involved. Also, no mention of the Muslim thugs, tooled up against a prospective “far right riot” that never materialised as it was completely fictional, who then took out their frustration on a local pub and some poor white guy who had to be hospitalised after a savage beating. Those thugs were all heavily masked, so no chance of identifying them.

Bill Bailey
Bill Bailey
2 months ago
Reply to  UnHerd Reader

Odd how the riots that occurred BEFORE Southport, in Leeds and Whitechapel didn’t provide the ‘first spark’?. In Leeds, could that be because the police, all 6 van loads of riot police plus a few patrol cars ALL took off and left the streets ,as for Whitechapel – I didn’t even see much on the news. Mind you Leeds was covered live on X and Youtube as the BBC stuck with its 5pm update – some unrest.
As for Leicester 2022 – how many of those rioters are currently enjoying His Majesty’s Pleasure? Asking for a friend , in case any PC is reading this. 😉

Lancashire Lad
Lancashire Lad
2 months ago

A quick google reveals that Simon Cottee is a senior lecturer in criminology at the University of Kent. Categorisation of others comes with the territory, to create an illusion of knowingness. To do so is to help gain traction within his chosen career.
I await the publication of a working class pamphlet on “the three types of academic journalist”, or perhaps a cartoon strip.

Jim Veenbaas
Jim Veenbaas
2 months ago
Reply to  Lancashire Lad

Idk. I thought it was interesting essay.

Bill Bailey
Bill Bailey
2 months ago
Reply to  Jim Veenbaas

When the first line says Southport was the ‘ first spark’ one wonders how many other inconvenient facts like Leeds or Whitechapel have been ignored to fit the hypothesis to the selected facts?

Martin Brumby
Martin Brumby
2 months ago
Reply to  Jim Veenbaas

Yes, interesting.
I note that he perhaps has never heard of Agents Provocateurs.

Brett H
Brett H
2 months ago
Reply to  Lancashire Lad

I thought this was quite a sympathetic and revealing article.

Bret Larson
Bret Larson
2 months ago
Reply to  Lancashire Lad

I agree. Splitting a group in three and naming them is useless.

David McKee
David McKee
2 months ago
Reply to  Lancashire Lad

That, old son, is completely unfair and uncalled-for. He’s in a position to know what he’s talking about. And he does not misuse his platform to strike poses or jump to conclusions.

I’d say he’s most definitely barking up the right tree.

j watson
j watson
2 months ago
Reply to  Lancashire Lad

So much of the discourse on UnHerd uses sweeping categorisations. You set a v high bar for yourself in criticising this Author’s attempt to stratify some of the motivations.

Hugh Bryant
Hugh Bryant
2 months ago
Reply to  j watson

Says PolPot Kettle.

Michael Cavanaugh
Michael Cavanaugh
2 months ago
Reply to  Lancashire Lad

And then of course someone else will come along and say that Bolshie pamphlets (have we forgotten categories like Petty Bourgeois, etc?) help that writer in turn “gain traction within his chosen career.”
Saul Bellow’s character Mr Sammler says: distinctions, distinctions, distinctions, these are what help us think; explanation is for the mental masses. Of course a criminologist is going to make distinctions! Do his distinctions help us think, or not?

Christopher Chantrill
Christopher Chantrill
2 months ago

By using pejoratives like “far-Right” and “terrorist” the rulers are implying some degree of political organization. Frankly, I doubt it. A right-wing version of AntiFa they ain’t.
But let’s go the “far-Right” route to Literally Hitler. The reason that Hitler came to power issued from the impoverishment and humiliation of the German people by the Allies after WWI. Way to go, Wilson & Co.
Of course, the present situation in Britain is Completely Different, peasant.

j watson
j watson
2 months ago

Firstly AntiFa – any evidence whatsoever of this groups presence in the UK beyond a few keyboard warriors? Stop looking to create some demon to self justify.
Secondly your history point – you’ll well know that H used racial triggers to ‘scapegoat’ others and yet somehow you overlook that lesson. Remarkable. And that German industrial leaders thought he was a useful idiot they could use to crush left wing policies and organisation, until too late and they realised he wasn’t containable. If you are going to take lessons from history be a little less selective.

Jim Veenbaas
Jim Veenbaas
2 months ago
Reply to  j watson

I agree. Failed govt policies, the depths of despair and hopelessness could possibly trigger an ugly and angry reaction. Peace and harmony can quickly disintegrate if Britain becomes an economic craphole.

Hugh Bryant
Hugh Bryant
2 months ago
Reply to  Jim Veenbaas

Britain is already an economic ‘craphole’. But this doesn’t affect the middle class in the South East. Immigration is making them richer by turning the North into a vast slum with the GDP of Puerto Rico. That’s why the governments which they elect and for which they work point blank refuse to do anything about it.

Bill Bailey
Bill Bailey
2 months ago
Reply to  Hugh Bryant

Wait until the lights start going out around 2028 thanks to Net Zero and it won’t just be the North is the dark. London will have to warm itself with bonfires.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/power-chiefs-fear-net-zero-blackouts-in-london/ar-AA1omW6k
Ironic, it isn’t only immigration that our ruling class don’t want to talk about.

W M
W M
2 months ago
Reply to  j watson

Formerly very close mate of mine went off the deepend in the mid 2010s and joined a black bloc group with a distinctly Antifa worldview, that count?

Bill Bailey
Bill Bailey
2 months ago
Reply to  j watson

So it was the BLM who were ‘mostly peaceful’ on the day 14 police ended up in hospital during lockdown?

https://news.sky.com/story/george-floyd-violence-breaks-out-at-anti-racism-protest-in-london-12001942

Arthur King
Arthur King
2 months ago

They are mostly just ordinary native English who are sick of seeing their children abused and murdered. My sons were watching the arrests of people just standing at a peaceful protest. They now understand that the government are totalitarian. The Labour Party over reaction is radicalized young white men.

David McKee
David McKee
2 months ago
Reply to  Arthur King

Arrested at a peaceful protest? Interesting. Where? When?

j watson
j watson
2 months ago
Reply to  Arthur King

Define ordinary, native English AK? Intrigued.
The CSEW found 1 in 5 of us had experienced child abuse of some serious form. Now in your World no doubt it only happens outside the ordinary native English, but the stats show it’s much more prevalent and correlates strongly with poverty (although not entirely). 50k kids in LA care too.
Now if you are truly interested what Govt policies would you favour to tackle this after 14 years of Austerity? Or do you prefer to just use it as a racial point?

Steven Carr
Steven Carr
2 months ago
Reply to  j watson

So there is little threat to children is there?
So why will the Taylor Swift shows in London this week have armed police, bag searches and sniffer dogs, and other measures which haven’t been announced?
Every time you go through airport security you will get a vivid reminder of the threat posed by a certain demographic – often white converts to Islam ,eg Richard Reid, Fritz Gelowicz, Daniel Martin Schneider, Jose Padilla ,Christian Ganczarskietc, etc

UnHerd Reader
UnHerd Reader
2 months ago
Reply to  Steven Carr

Oh no!
Thou hast spoken the truth that must not be revealed!
World runs on oil, and most of it is Arabia. We suck up to them to avoid a repeat of 1974 (OPEC attack).

Ethniciodo Rodenydo
Ethniciodo Rodenydo
2 months ago
Reply to  Arthur King

Other descriptions could be Stalinist or even Kafkaesque

Brett H
Brett H
2 months ago

The sentences handed out are, presumably, meant to make a statement about law and order and far-right elements. But throwing an egg is hardly the action of a far-right thug. These sentences are very harsh. In their effort to show that they’re in control governments will strike at easy targets. They simply don’t care about you. What they’d like are curfews based on your social credit rating. In all likelihood they’ll get it, just to keep you safe.

Bill Bailey
Bill Bailey
2 months ago
Reply to  Brett H

Facial Recognition is now OK according to Xi Ping TwoTier Starmer. It ain’t going to end well.

Jeremy Bray
Jeremy Bray
2 months ago

How do the recent rioters differ from the rioters at Harehills in Leeds? Will we be seeing mugshots of those rioters receiving early significant sentences for damaging a police car and burning a bus?

So far I have not read about any such sentences. Of course in that case I get the impression the police withdrew rather than confront the rioters snd may not have as diligently collected evidence against the rioters. Is the press asking questions about this?

Perhaps the police have got their act together and the next Harehills type rioters that can’t so easily be classified as far right will receive similarly efficient and speedy punishment and careful analysis of the differing motivations of the rioters on Unherd.

It would certainly be unfortunate if the next riot carried out by those of a different ethnic mix received less efficient attention as the two tier claim might gain some traction.

l am happy to see police efficiency and speedy justice in respect of any riots so let us hope this burst of energy on the part of the police and justice system is maintained and applied in an evenhanded fashion and extended to all malefactors. If so I shall applaud Labour for stealing a conservative policy that the allegedly conservative government singularly failed to implement on their watch.

j watson
j watson
2 months ago
Reply to  Jeremy Bray

One suspects the firmness of the response, and the awareness the Authorities will need to be seen to be even-handed, not being lost on other potential troublemakers and that’s no bad thing. I suspect that Lab Councillor who used incendiary language at a counter demo going to be doing a bit of time at his majesty’s pleasure too.

Jeremy Bray
Jeremy Bray
2 months ago
Reply to  j watson

Hopefully you are right. Consistency in policy is important.

I fear the recent softly softly approach to rioting gave the impression that rioting could be consequence free fun. It should not need the occasional sudden spurt of active enforcement of the law to get through the message that violence and destruction of property is not acceptable.

Alex Lekas
Alex Lekas
2 months ago
Reply to  Jeremy Bray

Oh, there is consistency all right. A consistency of double standards. And the current dispensation of “justice” has gone well beyond punishment for violence. It’s now straight up thought policing.

Hugh Bryant
Hugh Bryant
2 months ago
Reply to  j watson

Someone who capitalises the word ‘authorities’ in the middle of a sentence is kind of giving the game away, don’t you think?

Ethniciodo Rodenydo
Ethniciodo Rodenydo
2 months ago
Reply to  j watson

But it wont be 18 months

David L
David L
2 months ago

Or even 18 days. Inciting murder is just fine and dandy when the left does it.

Bill Bailey
Bill Bailey
2 months ago
Reply to  David L

Those mostly peaceful BLM riots that injured 13 and 14 Police respectively in one week resulted in Ange and TwoTier taking the Knee. I wait with interest to see what happens next.

Johannes Kreisler
Johannes Kreisler
2 months ago
Reply to  j watson

I suspect that Lab Councillor who used incendiary language at a counter demo going to be doing a bit of time at his majesty’s pleasure too.

Don’t bank on it.

J Dunne
J Dunne
2 months ago
Reply to  j watson

If he was a right winger he would already be in prison. And so would the ridiculous white woman stood next to him who smiled when he said it.

Lancashire Lad
Lancashire Lad
2 months ago
Reply to  Jeremy Bray

The very same “swift justice” policy was deployed by Cameron to quell the 2011 riots. Starmer will have taken note. He was Director of Public Prosecutions at the time,

Jeremy Bray
Jeremy Bray
2 months ago
Reply to  Lancashire Lad

It seems Cameron and Theresa May accused the police of being ‘too few, too slow, too timid’ during the riots.

Eventually the police got their act together in the face of the 2011 riots that were far worse in scope of deaths and property damage to the recent riots, but subsequently, as the Harehills riots and previous relatively minor race riots demonstrated, the police reverted to their softly softly approach that gave the impression that rioting was risk free fun. Those rioting have been lulled into a false sense of impunity.

What is lacking is consistency. The police and justice system need to crack down on all instances of damage to people and property with the same vigour which may well imply building more prisons. Of course, once the message gets through that damage to people and property will receive swift attention and result in jail time instances of such behaviour might be expected to decline.

Johannes Kreisler
Johannes Kreisler
2 months ago
Reply to  Lancashire Lad

As i recall, the police stood by timidly & silently taking notes while the 2011 global lumpenproletariat shopped early for Christmas and set $h¡t on fire. The “policing” (via CCTV / face recog.) took place hidden from the public eye, much of the sentencing ditto. As i recall there was no endless strings of Guardian articles breathlessly gloating about the sentencing of grannies and 12 year old kids, but a lot of pearlclutching about “context” instead.

Dennis Roberts
Dennis Roberts
2 months ago
Reply to  Lancashire Lad

There’s a useful wiki page on the 2011 riots.

“It was reported in mid-August that some courts were advised by senior justice clerks to deal harshly with offences committed during the disturbances.[236] The advice was said to tell the courts that they could ignore existing sentencing guidelines and hand down heavy sentences”

“A woman who had not taken part in the riots received five months for receiving a pair of stolen shorts. The sentence was later reduced on appeal.”

“By August 2012, 1,292 rioters had been handed custodial sentences totalling 1,800 years at 16.8 months on an average.”

Be interesting to see how it compares when the sentencing is complete.

Ethniciodo Rodenydo
Ethniciodo Rodenydo
2 months ago
Reply to  Jeremy Bray

I note there has been no speedy justice for those who attacked the police at Manchester airport inflicting serious bodily harm.
I suspect that but for the riot there would have been no charges or if charges were preferred the sentences would have been notional

Graham Cunningham
Graham Cunningham
2 months ago
Reply to  Jeremy Bray

Yes these violent riots were down to people drunk on their own nasty personality traits and/or fecklessness. But I think similar things about most of those who go on ‘mainly peaceful’ protests in liberal Western countries. They too seem to me to be drugged up…in this case on their own wilfully ignorant self-righteousness. The difference is a matter of degree. Nobody goes on a protest in Iran or Afghanistan for the fun of it….for an edgy day out with their mates. https://grahamcunningham.substack.com/p/invasion-of-the-virtue-signallers

Johannes Kreisler
Johannes Kreisler
2 months ago
Reply to  Jeremy Bray

How do the recent rioters differ from the rioters at Harehills in Leeds? 

The recent rioters had a valid cause to riot. The Harehill mob had none.

Tyler Durden
Tyler Durden
2 months ago

Mass sentencing of these blunt working-class protests is disgusting. It reveals the most scornful excesses of the English class system.
Scapegoating is being performed via excess sentences to excuse the bias of the police and the incapacity and unwillingness of this Labour government to communicate any solidarity with ordinary British people. Some of the most vulnerable are being chased down on social media too which unveils the authoritarian Left in power and their proxies in the police forces.

Hugh Bryant
Hugh Bryant
2 months ago
Reply to  Tyler Durden

Well said.

David Jory
David Jory
2 months ago
Reply to  Tyler Durden

Isn’t it strange that there are apparently so many ‘far right’ people concentrated in Labour voting constituencies?

glyn harries
glyn harries
2 months ago
Reply to  Tyler Durden

Blunt? Burning libraries, citizens advice, attacking religious buildings, racist attacks and causing 100s of injuries to the police is ‘blunt’??? If these were Left Wing and Muslims you would be calling for mass internment, mass deportations and life sentances. Hypocritical bullshit.

UnHerd Reader
UnHerd Reader
2 months ago
Reply to  glyn harries

If they were left wing or muslim the press and pols would be on their side.

Nigel Drake
Nigel Drake
2 months ago
Reply to  Tyler Durden

Yes. It’s just what I think. I (accidentally, because it was on where I work saw a televised sentencing yesterday of one of the rioters. It was very disturbing because the flavour and atmosphere of the courtroom and the proceedings seemed to echo a centuries-old class of nasty, gleeful joy practised by those with power over the helpless. I’m thinking of things like public hangings and witch hunts. The nastiness of it was really horrible to me and made me angry. Raw, stupid vengeance where proportionate, measured, effective justice should prevail. They call the defendants thugs but the so-called justice system just lashes out like an angry drunk.

UnHerd Reader
UnHerd Reader
2 months ago

Well in the dublin “anti migration” riots, about half were migrants judging by the names of those arrested.

Dr E C
Dr E C
2 months ago

A British retiree just got jailed for 18 months for shouting ‘Allah, Allah, who the f is Allah’.

Two pro-Palestinian Muslims who drove through a Jewish area in London a few years ago megaphoning ‘f the Jews, rape Jewish daughters’ had all charges dropped.

Peter Buchan
Peter Buchan
2 months ago
Reply to  Dr E C

The asymmetry you describe is as obvious as it has become ubiquitous, and irreversible. But these are all emergent phenomena – phenomena rooted in decades of sleepwalking and wishful thinking while rapacious so-called intellectual and financial “elites” first permeated, then strip-mined UK and European institutions.
But as the adage goes: people get the government (elected or not) they deserve. “The People” navel gazed and wallowed in dated narratives about Western “civilization” and its past “glories” while a marginalized, ever more resentful tide rose up beneath, and to beyond any point where it might be contained. At least not anymore.
All the finger pointing and hand wringing is for nought; channeling (Russian!) poet Yevgeny Yevtushenko: “When truth is replaced by silence, the silence is the lie”. The people of Europe lived so well for so long off other nations – and irredeemable debt – without questioning their providence that all that is left for them now is to bear what must be borne in the era to come. The era of reckoning; of Jonathan Haidt’s “Babel”.

UnHerd Reader
UnHerd Reader
2 months ago
Reply to  Peter Buchan

And how are China progressing in Africa?

Keith Merrick
Keith Merrick
2 months ago
Reply to  Peter Buchan

I’m damned if I understood more than 5% of that. Surely the point of commenting is to be understood rather than to display one’s erudition or how many polysyllabic words can be placed in close proximity. Sure, it can be done, but what’s the point?
“When truth is replaced by silence, the silence is the lie”.
Hmm. Deep and meaningless.
‘The people of Europe lived so well for so long off other nations…’
Like to give an example? The Swedes lived off…? The Irish lived off…? The Lithuanians? The Czechs? The Poles etc. etc. etc.

Ex Nihilo
Ex Nihilo
2 months ago
Reply to  Peter Buchan

I appreciate your comments and your erudition as well. When the poet, Yevgeny Yevtushenko, emigrated to the U.S. several decades ago he came to live in my city, Tulsa, Oklahoma. His son and mine were in the same class at school, which is how I came to know of his work and his venerated status among Russians. Your post inspires me to pull out my copy of a volume of his poems translated to English and reread some. Thank you!

General Store
General Store
2 months ago
Reply to  Dr E C

I wonder if this bloke has ever used the term ‘far left thugs’ ….like ever, let alone ‘Militant Islamist thugs’

Maurice Austin
Maurice Austin
2 months ago
Reply to  General Store

Nope. Too busy coming up with amusing novelties like “had reportedly drank 30 cans of lager”.

P Carson
P Carson
2 months ago
Reply to  Maurice Austin

The article says he drank “larger”

0 0
0 0
2 months ago
Reply to  Dr E C

Thankfully we now have a Government determined to deal with threatening behaviour. Bout time.

General Store
General Store
2 months ago
Reply to  0 0

But only from white men apparently. People of colour and Muslims, Jew-haters, violent misogynist gender confused alphabet people get a complete pass.

Warren Trees
Warren Trees
2 months ago
Reply to  General Store

It’s called “saving democracy” in the U.S.

Andrew Garcarz
Andrew Garcarz
2 months ago
Reply to  0 0

I’m peeing myself laughing at the naïveté of your observation. I can only assume you were being facetious

Jeremy Bray
Jeremy Bray
2 months ago
Reply to  0 0

Not sure why you think an enquiry as to whom Allah is is threatening?

Alphonse Pfarti
Alphonse Pfarti
2 months ago
Reply to  Dr E C

I very much hope he appeals.

Alex Lekas
Alex Lekas
2 months ago

To whom? It appears that the entirety of your system has fallen prey to this ideological capture. That a judge would, with a straight face, sentence someone to 20 months of words – words – screams of a society that has lost its moral compass.

J. Hale
J. Hale
2 months ago
Reply to  Alex Lekas

There is also the problem that in countries that have hate speech laws, (such as Germany) truth is not allowed as a defense against hate speech.

Rob N
Rob N
2 months ago
Reply to  J. Hale

UK as well. I believe Sam Melia was told that the truth of his statements was irrelevant; they could invoke racial hatred. So he got ?2 years and a ban from seeing his children!

This started years ago (Count Dankula?) and nobody made the necessary fuss.

Michael Cavanaugh
Michael Cavanaugh
2 months ago
Reply to  Rob N

Why does UK law even have a category of “non-crime hate incidents”?

Arthur King
Arthur King
2 months ago
Reply to  Dr E C

This kind of over reaction will radicalized the white working class. It will also foster a common solidarity among many native Brits.

General Store
General Store
2 months ago
Reply to  Dr E C

If the Tories or indeed Reform had any bollocks they would announce that he would get a pull pardon and compensation the moment a Tory government gets into power and the same for all these cases; and that any new legislation will be reversed; and that they will implement freedom of speech protections as wide and entrenched as in America…..

Konstantinos Stavropoulos
Konstantinos Stavropoulos
2 months ago
Reply to  Dr E C

The high record of 366 thumps up for this comment presents all the disappointment, anger and despair, that the author of the article didn’t touch..! That’s what fuels the riots..!
………………
Later edit..! Call me crazy, but I did see that number..!!!!

Martin Ashford
Martin Ashford
2 months ago

“Yet dig a little deeper and things become a tad more nuanced. For all the caustic characterisations thrown the rioters’ way, their motives were far more complex and varied.”

‘Nuanced’, ‘complex’. Yeah, that tends to happen when three little girls get butchered inside a community destroyed by mass immigration that’s been forced upon people without their consent. Odd isn’t it? It’s almost like some people think we should be living in something that resembles a democracy! UnHerd need to desperately find more contributors that don’t exist solely within a metropolitan bubble, and think that not 100% toeing the party line makes them a renegade.

AC Harper
AC Harper
2 months ago

Another nuance is whether the activities truly were ‘a riot’ or public order offences. I guess if the protestors had been near a government building it might have been called an ‘insurrection’.

steven ber
steven ber
2 months ago

The far right are a disgrace, and potentially a huge danger, but they’re nothing without support, and support has been gifted them by mainstream politicians.

The refusal to listen to people’s (misplaced) concerns about large scale Immigration (mostly via Freedom of Movement), and to dismiss such concerns as bigoted or racist only fuelled more anger.

People don’t stop looking for answers, they just find their answers elsewhere, the Sun, Daily Mail, UKIP, Reform etc.

Immigration should have been openly discussed a long time ago, it’s an easy conversation to win, put simply, Immigrants are not the cause of almost all the problems in this country.

Tony Blair made a couple of (understandable) mistakes, the most obvious was allowing Eastern Europeans to obtain a work permit (or whatever it was called) when entering the UK (Germany and others didn’t in an attempt to slow the flow), so when the EU expanded we saw a very large number of new entrants to the UK, the UK’s population rose by nearly 10%.

Now look at this from a working class plumber’s perspective, the population increase happened mostly when the economy was booming, a plumbers order books were full, then came the bankers crash and recession, orders dried up as people tightened their belts, so the plumber looks around, in his town of 100,000, there had been 10 plumbers, now there’s 11, and the new plumber is Polish, of corse he doesn’t realist the population has increased to 110,000, so there’s still the right proportion of plumbers, he only seen an extra Polish plumber, and a half empty order book, so he asks questions.

The English plumber also sees class sizes increase, longer waiting times in A & E, or for doctor appointments, the chance of his daughter getting a council house is also decreasing every year, many many problems, so he has questions.

The truth is, these Immigrants are very good workers, working in legal jobs and contributing to our economy, but our Government didn’t invest the increased tax revenue on the problems caused by population increase, it’s not enough to increase NHS funding by inflation if the population has increased by 10%, it needs to be 10% plus inflation.

Te Immigration argument is an easy one to win, we are overall a very good people, we listen to reason and aren’t overly selfish, but no proper discussion, means no reason to listen to, and the right wing know how to take advantage.

The Brexit vote should have been a huge wake up call.

The real far right are too few to be a major concern, but when we gift them the support of people with genuine concerns, they’re numbers swell of their confidence grows.

Never forget, not all protesters are extremists.

AC Harper
AC Harper
2 months ago
Reply to  steven ber

There is some truth in your observations about the value of immigration. But I note that you did not address illegal immigration and the social perils of rewarding such illegal acts. Illegal immigration is a much tougher argument to win – perhaps that is why you didn’t try?

steven ber
steven ber
2 months ago
Reply to  AC Harper

You’re right, I was only talking about legal immigration, and for the reasons I mentioned earlier, I think the failure to address legitimate concerns resulted in an undercurrent of anger, and a feeling of not being listened to.

That anger only gets worse when issues with illegal immigration come to light, I will never try to defend illegal immigration, it will always be wrong, for absolute obvious reasons that don’t need mentioning.

I suspect the Left won’t talk about immigration because they can’t answer the most obvious question, what happens when you introduce every pro immigration policy you can think of, and still people arrive illegally in the country, what do you do with them, and how do you deter others from doing the same.

Sue Sims
Sue Sims
2 months ago
Reply to  steven ber

A good argument, but unfortunately your hypothetical plumber statistics don’t reflect the facts. Douglas Murray has an excellent article on this in last week’s Spectator: https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-unfashionable-truth-about-the-riots/

Andrew F
Andrew F
2 months ago
Reply to  steven ber

Utter nonsense.
For a start, migrants contributed nothing to existing fabric of society, including schools, NHS, roads etc.
But they are all using it.
If pro mass immigration argument was easy to win then establishment and MSM would be discussing it daily.
But they don’t, because it is loosing proposition.
The idea that mass immigration contributes to overall wealth of the nation was disproved many times.
It benefits migrants, obviously, but unless it improves GDP per head it is loosing proposition for majority of the population.
Then it is cultural and societal costs.
When migrants are from similar cultures who tend to integrate, it is less of an issue.
When they are from Muslim or African backgrounds then it creates serious problems and costs.
As we see daily on streets of uk.

John Riordan
John Riordan
2 months ago
Reply to  Andrew F

“For a start, migrants contributed nothing to existing fabric of society, including schools, NHS, roads etc.”

There is the fact that young, work-ready immigrants arrive having been educated at another country’s expense, so there is some trade-off involved on this equation.

But in general I agree that even if this benefit exists, it’s outweighed by lifetime entitlements for all but the most highly-paid, highly-skilled immigrants.

Ann Thomas
Ann Thomas
2 months ago

These type of articles on the riots are tedious. They read as if the writers are observing some newly discovered species of wildlife rather than a human demographic. He’s even invented a list of these creatures for his own amusement. The fact that he has had to read transcripts of court hearings and watch lots of youtube videos to discover that the ‘far right thug’ headlines were a cut and paste narrative was further telling. Who is he talking to?

Stephanie Surface
Stephanie Surface
2 months ago

I still can’t get my head around, that the police didn’t deal so swiftly with the BLM rioters. Not only lasted the BLM “demonstrations” longer, but in my opinion they were more violent and damaging. I saw how these thugs threw bicycles at police horses, severely injuring the horses and nearly 30 police officers. Statues were damaged with spray paint and instead of immediately dealing with the thugs, the Churchill statue was encased, so rioters couldn’t get to it anymore. Why weren’t they promptly charged and speedily convicted? In Bristol the “ demonstrators” even walked free after the Colston statue was thrown in the river? There is truly a Two Tier Justice system in the U.K.

Warren Trees
Warren Trees
2 months ago

The same can be said in the U.S. with BLM vs. J6. One got a free pass after literally burning down sections of cities. The other got long sentences after wandering around the Capitol after police opened the doors.

Michael Cavanaugh
Michael Cavanaugh
2 months ago
Reply to  Warren Trees

Why, clearly because BLM “is not going to let up, nor should we let up” (Harris) while while the other electoral party is nothing short of an existential threat to, well, everything. Obviously.

Derek Smith
Derek Smith
2 months ago

Not just that, Stephanie. It also happened at a time when everyone was supposed to be staying at home because of COVID. Of course, demonstrating against lockdowns was heavily policed.

Steven Carr
Steven Carr
2 months ago

Why do none of these defendants ever state in court that they were inspired by Tommy Robinson or Nigel Farage or Elon Musk or had read a book by Douglas Murray?

Liakoura
Liakoura
2 months ago
Reply to  Steven Carr

Legal advice? – ‘Say nothing other than apologise and hope for the best?’

Bill Bailey
Bill Bailey
2 months ago
Reply to  Steven Carr

Because they weren’t?

Tris Torrance
Tris Torrance
2 months ago

“… Those who do otherwise — whether they are the Prime Minister, a think-tanker or a grifter angling for the Government’s attention — can call the rioters far-Right thugs or even terrorists if they like. But they shouldn’t kid themselves that they’re doing anything other than playing the grubby game of politics…”
Quite. There’s absolutely no indication that any of these rioters voted for parties of the political Right, and every likelihood, in fact, that they voted for the political Left, bearing in mind the poverty and aimlessness of so many of their lives.
In propagandising the “Far Right” lie, our brave new broom government is simply doing exactly what the last government would have done – slavishly following the elitist, Blairite agenda that has dominated – whatever governments the population elect.

Hugh Bryant
Hugh Bryant
2 months ago
Reply to  Tris Torrance

Well said.

Derek Smith
Derek Smith
2 months ago
Reply to  Tris Torrance

Quite right. ‘Far Right’ is the literal knee-jerk response of this Blairite kind of left wing politician. They have what can only be described as ‘Cable Street Envy’. All of those battles were fought and won decades ago, yet our current revolutionaries at heart like Starmer need to feel significant in the here and now.

Dustin Needle
Dustin Needle
2 months ago

I have lived in the North and South, have friends and relatives in both. I live in what might be characterised as a ‘nice’ area. Limited in exposure to rapid demographic change, but nervously awaiting the great ‘scattering’ of regime guests to the smaller towns and cities; inevitable to all other than the incurious, or those blessed as I am but with a vested career interest in providing simplistic journalistic characterisations.

A career criminologist may not even come across most of those who have displeased the current ‘regime’, simply because those being named, shamed and banged up, have little or no previous record of serious crime.

So at my great age but and informed by discussions, personal experience of relocation and some family disruption I can say this – following Thatcher de-industrialisation, which was unchallenged and even embraced by the Blair regime, the mass of people who would simply ‘characterise’ themselves as disenfranchised is huge, disproportionately based in the North and Midlands. .

Little of this is Starmer’s fault but I see the dawn of another big majority government, tightly controlled by the centre – for example why was the MP for Southport not front and centre to help articulate the people’s raw emotions? He was reduced to retweet virtuous statements from a London regime that, be it red or blue, keeps as far from the actual feelings in these towns as possible. No wonder the voice gets outsourced to the untermensch.

Because, whether it is political expediency driven by financial dependency overseas, international Lawfare or whatever, there seems few levers any government can now pull to stop the slaughter of British children, due to knife crime or mental health (other theories are available). Similar the media. All they can do is characterise a group as ‘the other’ as it is in decline, can be controlled by police forces and statistically relies on employment where it exists for it’s survival/social status and therefore is vulnerable to the impact of a prison record. We used to have a word for these regimes.

Maybe Dr MLK was right – rioting is indeed the language of the unheard. For those with children, that is the hill they will fight on. Their feeling is they have nothing else. Just to protect their children until someone gives them hope and can deliver it. Whoever that person is could do a lot worse than take a walk around MLK memorial and enshrine into manifesto all the pronouncements on display – which have stood the test of time and transcend creed and race. And deliver. Before it is too late.

Theodore Stegers
Theodore Stegers
2 months ago
Reply to  Dustin Needle

I’d say the unions had much more to do with the de-industrialisation of the UK than Margaret Thatcher. What prevents recovery now is anti business regulation – the real minimum wage is zero for example – and the wrecking, also through regulation, of the small business banking market. This not to mention the complete nonsense of net zero.

Dustin Needle
Dustin Needle
2 months ago

Thanks for reading/responding, briefly – agree with all your points. Not meant as a ‘Fatchaa’ rant, just editorialising. We were muddling, British-style, to a kind of social compact until Scargill and his fellow luxury communists such as Hatton, hailed today by BBC, Guardianista and Ken Loach fluffers as the heroes they most certainly weren’t, torpedoed any progress in that direction.

Gov of day responded with careful planning and decisiveness in execution. I got on my bike, looked for work and had a nice life courtesy of Big Bang and unravelling the madness that followed in the Banking sector (Bill Bailey comment below). I benefited from parents neither of whom had ‘a good war’ to cement their place in post WW2 society and only a blind faith that education and the ‘ladder up’ (since removed) offered by that route would be key to their main source of hope – their children.

I had an abundance of good fortune, and help from others whether deserved or not. I have returned many times for the North, and seen the impact of society’s change over 30+ years. The cost both to society and taxpayer is permanent. Social mobility is gone, few have the options available to me. But at least we have criminologists who can ‘categorise’ them.

I mourn, guiltily, not least due to the political discourse around those being banged up by the regime. Because there – but for the grace of God, education and outrageous good fortune – may well have gone I.

Theodore Stegers
Theodore Stegers
2 months ago
Reply to  Dustin Needle

Thatcher’s favourite economist, Sir Alan Walters – son of a communist, left school at 15 to become a machinist of some stripe – did e’rso well perhaps to the point of being the epitome of the social mobility you mention. The reason he comes to mind now was his quote: “Commerce is the universal solvent of prejudice.” Probably most visible presently on Premiership football pitches. But if commerce is the solvent of prejudice from whence does prejudice spring? I’d say regulation. And given your experience of apparently benefiting from the significant, largely Thatcher driven, deregulation of the financial markets, I expect you would agree.

Bill Bailey
Bill Bailey
2 months ago
Reply to  Dustin Needle

There was no ‘de-industrilisation’ Manufacturing expanded under Thatcher, What happened was it became more automated (check out Nissan Sunderland’s Robots) so the numbers involved fell, the actually value rose ,BUT it was dwarfed by the returns from the City/Financial Service/Big Bang. So as a % of our income and employment it fell. BUT manufacturing output in absolute terms rose. In fact up to COVID and post Brexit was STILL rising. The Thatcher destroyed industry is like the Green idea of CO2 driven climate change – a myth. She changed it, but we didn’t ‘de-industrialise’ – the Greens have done more to de-industrialise the UK than Thatcher. Ironically Thatcher was the first “Green”‘ She set up the Met Office Dept to look into the claim of ONE scientist that CO2 was going to drive global warming. The IPCC later copied that Met Office set up.

Dustin Needle
Dustin Needle
2 months ago
Reply to  Bill Bailey

Thanks Bill – I am also an innate sceptic on green claims. And I have worked with productivity specialists who have told me stories of working practices in the 70’s which were staggering even then, and impossible to see how industry could ever have survived that.

Maybe C21st reverse mechanisation of automatic car-washes shows us the way forward…

Thatcher famously was a scientist and possibly keen to explore the potential for ‘green’ energy as a way of loosening the tightening noose of Middle Eastern influence on the West’s politics and society – Iran’s revolution would have shocked many in power, who would still remember Nasser. She was certainly no wild-eyed dreamer. And now we have Ed Miliband.

Rob N
Rob N
2 months ago

Of course the level of 2 tier prosecution and sentencing is shocking. And while it is easy to denigrate the rioters what other options do they have when the media, Government and judicial system are determined to crush the native British.

Dougie Undersub
Dougie Undersub
2 months ago

There is no organised far-right movement in this country, let alone one with representation in Parliament – unlike France, Germany, The Netherlands, Hungary, Slovakia, Austria and, arguably, Italy. Yet the Guardianistas want to paint the white underclass as such, presumably so they can ignore that “community’s” ingrained social and economic problems.
There are, of course, individuals with far-right views who message each other from their bedrooms over a can of lager but nothing like the organisation seen on the Left, with all those professionally printed and mounted placards as on display in Walthamstow.
There will always be a small section of society that is up for a ruck. Forceful and effective policing has largely eliminated trouble around football matches so the effete response of the police to the Harehills riots was seized upon by the geezers as a rare opportunity to have some fun themselves. Inevitably, the wrong lessons are being drawn and the true reasons for the Combatants’ anger ignored.

Bored Writer
Bored Writer
2 months ago

No idea why people are worked up by “two tier policing”. Don’t they watch films and TV series? Bad ‘uns are never of colour. Indeed one can deduce who the bad ‘uns are simply by looking at the surnames of the actors involved. Obuju? Nope. Patel? Nope. Hussein? Nope. Atkinson-Grimshaw? Used to be a definite yes but double-barrelled names are trickier these days. Robinson? That’s him!
The police are simply concentrating their attention on those with the wrong surname. Makes sense really.

0 0
0 0
2 months ago

Good common sense observations. Shows why it’s necessary to focus more on the behind the scenes ‘keyboard warrior ‘ agitators , of whatever stripe.

David Jory
David Jory
2 months ago

The government and judiciary have made the law into a capricious tyranny.
I do not consent to this.
I can see no democratic alternative to violent revolution.
Go on,arrest me for being anti-establishment.
At nearly 60 I don’t mind using myself as a sacrifice combating evil.
Jail me and thousands of others and watch the whole blob collapse.
PS I will not hide behind a pseudonym.

Warren Trees
Warren Trees
2 months ago
Reply to  David Jory

We need more like you! Bravo.

Jeremy Bray
Jeremy Bray
2 months ago
Reply to  David Jory

I await hearing that a middle aged man named David Jory has been swiftly apprehended and sentenced to 2 years in Dartmoor breaking rocks for promoting violent revolution and causing psychological harm to the government and judiciary by suggesting they have made the law into a capricious tyranny. The offence was admitted by the terrorist who had urged that he be arrested and jailed. Thousands claimed to be the real David Jory.

Daniel Lee
Daniel Lee
2 months ago

“the narrative that the riots were wholly the handiwork of far-Right thugs is oversimplistic”
Of course it was oversimplistic, just as the same narrative about the demonstrations in Charlottesville and the Jan 6 riot were, because that is the narrative the Progressives who control media want us to hear.

Christopher Barclay
Christopher Barclay
2 months ago

More interesting is analysis of the people jailed for social media comments. As far as I can make out, the authorities have failed to identify any group that organised the violence. Instead it seems to be individuals who encouraged their friends (as opposed to followers) to riot. This suggests that the feelings of dissatisfaction amongst Northern working class people is widespread even if most did not get involved in violence.
Whilst I can’t pinpoint evidence for the riots being promoted by the authorities, they do seem to have come at a convenient time. Space in prison was made available beforehand by releasing violent offenders early and the riots seem to be used as the excuse to censor social media platforms.

Bill Bailey
Bill Bailey
2 months ago

and we now have Sir TwoTier saying to the Police “Use Facial Recognition Cameras”.

Adam K
Adam K
2 months ago

This article missed a type of protester/rioter, one who has been pushed to the brink by the unsolicited mass immigration that has so horrifically disfigured this country. This fact alone warrants revulsion at the political class, before we even get to the attendant atrocity, criminality, economic hardship, and dispossession that has been inflicted by them. One need only recall events in Harehills, or the BLM freakout over a fentanyl abusing criminal, to understand a clear anti-native animus. One positive thought is that they cannot imprison all of us, if we stand up.

https://theheritagesite.substack.com/

UnHerd Reader
UnHerd Reader
2 months ago

What about the counter demonstrations which also became violent? So called ‘far left’ anti racist demonstrators and groups of Asian men confronting both police and ‘far right’ demonstrators?

j watson
j watson
2 months ago
Reply to  UnHerd Reader

Non-violent. You seem to have not grasped the basic difference.
There have been some arrests and charges pending for counter demos, and of course the Lab councillor for making incendiary statements, but overwhelmingly the counter demos non-violent. Painful that for the antagonists on the Right to admit I know.

Ian Wigg
Ian Wigg
2 months ago
Reply to  j watson

and of course the Lab councillor for making incendiary statements

More accurately “Inciting mass murder.”

He’s only been “suspended” from his job and the labour party (no doubt on full pay) rather than immediately dismissed (at absolute minimum it’s gross misconduct regardless of what any subsequent charges are laid.)

Anything less than a significant custodial sentence will confirm that there is a 2 tier justice system.

Citizen Diversity
Citizen Diversity
2 months ago

If deprivation causes crime, shouldn’t these disturbed and disadvantaged people be treated by the authorities?
Are diligent social workers deployed in a shield wall of the sort used at the Battle of Hastings?

Alex Lekas
Alex Lekas
2 months ago

“Far-right thugs were not the only perpetrators.”
1) No $h!t. 2) Funny how the same people who used to tell us that “thugs” was some sort of racist dog whistle now use the term with impunity. I guess it’s much easier for govt officials to attack the motives of those who are now protesting the predictable results of policy decisions than to revisit the decisions themselves. How typical – blame those impacted by stupid and intentionally malevolent decisions while absolving the people who made these events unavoidable.

Carissa Pavlica
Carissa Pavlica
2 months ago

Has there ever been an article about far left violence that chose to dissect the rioters instead of the cause of their frustration? I can’t think of a single one. The coverage is so tone deaf to the world most people live in that this stuff keeps happening over and over again. No resolution, just finger pointing and jail sentencea.

Bryan Dale
Bryan Dale
2 months ago

You’ve missed the whole point. They’ve been labelled as far right thugs because that is an effective demonisation so they can be dehumanised and people will accept any punishment the regime metes out on them.

Barry Dixon
Barry Dixon
2 months ago

 
When does a protester morph into a demonstrator and when do they then morph into a rioter and then to a terrorist? I watched a hour-long video of a protest in London that became a demonstration when the police kettled them. From the footage of the video, it never developed into a riot but the police then started to randomly pick out protesters and arrested them. Dozens of them.
The protesters were a mix of ages and ‘types’ but from what I could see none of them fell into any of the categories that the author of this article has selected. They were the common people.

J. Hale
J. Hale
2 months ago

Everybody knows why the riots took place: Misinformation incited native born whites to riot over the UK’s immigration policies. In previous decades, the government bent over backwards to appease the immigrants rioting over discrimination. But now the government fears the immigrants, and won’t do a thing to appease the white British subjects complaining about the immigration policies that are responsible for the rioting. Expect more trouble in the coming years.

Bill Bailey
Bill Bailey
2 months ago
Reply to  J. Hale

When the Tories can get 100+ seats after their performance over the past 14 years, then why should Govt bother? Clearly the Uniparty is the popular party, whichever wing is in power. Unless, of course, the vote was fiddled?

UnHerd Reader
UnHerd Reader
2 months ago

This discussion fails again to recognise the frustration of the northerners who feel let down by the promises around Brexit (golden sunlit uplands) and a reduced number of immigrants (who are accommodated in UK at the cost of the British taxpayer). I see no fairness in that scenario. And rioters are rarely the well-off, who have a secure future, but those who feel that society has let them down. For 14 years, it has been the Tories who have hoodwinked them; let us see if Labour treats them any better.

Graham Cunningham
Graham Cunningham
2 months ago

Yes these violent riots were down to people drunk on their own nasty personality traits and/or fecklessness. But I think similar things about most of those who go on ‘mainly peaceful’ protests in liberal Western countries. They too seem to me to be drugged up…in this case on their own wilfully ignorant self-righteousness. The difference is a matter of degree. Nobody goes on a protest in Iran or Afghanistan for the fun of it….for an edgy day out with their mates. https://grahamcunningham.substack.com/p/invasion-of-the-virtue-signallers

Jae
Jae
2 months ago

Why in the name of all that is rational did the UK vote for Labour and Keir Starmer. You’ve doomed yourselves to serfdom and a two tier injustice system.

How are you going to right the ship when they’re using fear and intimidation to introduce more draconian laws and censorship. Don’t you think that was the plan all along?

Rob N
Rob N
2 months ago
Reply to  Jae

The country did not vote for Starmer or Labour. Rather they voted to not have the equally useless and treacherous Cons. After all they were even more dishonest, not having a Cons policy in 14 years.

Hopefully Reform will become a significant party.

Bill Bailey
Bill Bailey
2 months ago
Reply to  Rob N

The Tories got 100+ seats, Reform 5. I repeatedly pointed out on every platform I could that all it needed to put Reform in with the landslide TwoTier got was for ALL Brexiteers to vote Reform. They had done it 3 times before and won every time. BUT they didn’t, they voted Tory for a start. Well, I wanted Reform in to scrap Net Zero, as that is going to destroy the grid and the economy. It is too late now. Labour won’t get a second term, they may not even finish this first. Exactly as I reported pre-election – the blackouts start about 2028 – David Turver on his substack lays out the insanity of Net Zero. Doomberg on theirs “Inverted priorities” lays out that grid failure in modern Urban environments means. Hunger after a week or so, then longer and in the UK it becomes starvation. As I repeatedly point out, this is NOT hyperbole.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/power-chiefs-fear-net-zero-blackouts-in-london/ar-AA1omW6k
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/05/world/europe/kyiv-ukraine-electricity-russia-infrastructure.html
“if there’s no power, there will be no water and no sewage’
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c722ppxldldo 
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckg555ykx4go 

Rosie Robbins
Rosie Robbins
2 months ago

“had reportedly drank 30 cans of larger
oh dear

Ex Nihilo
Ex Nihilo
2 months ago
Reply to  Rosie Robbins

30 cans! I’d be in the loo for 3 days!

Rob N
Rob N
2 months ago

Article headline misled me. I thought it might be about agent provocateurs such as Antifa or the Security Services.

Happened on Jan 6th so why not here?

UnHerd Reader
UnHerd Reader
2 months ago

Dress it up how you like, the elites hate the white British and have been waiting to give them a good kicking for ages. It wouldn’t surprise me if the government wasn’t at the back of this. Wind them up until they kick off and then you’ve got an excuse to bring in draconian laws that will stop them ever expressing themselves again.
Where were the draconian laws when Black Lives Matter kicked off, or when the muslims who had come to face off supposed white fascists and found none decided to riot anyway?
Expect more of this in the future. It’s a great way to marginalise and get rid of the troublesome whites so the country can be remade for the virtuous and deserving

glyn harries
glyn harries
2 months ago

Good and fair summary.

UnHerd Reader
UnHerd Reader
2 months ago

Not related to the report on persons arrested, but I recall from a class in sociology of deviance many years ago that still photos and newsreels (not much video back then) show that most people in a riot are not rioting. Some walk around as if stunned, some seem to be spectators. Videos of BLM riots in USA showed some of this also, plus showing that a few in black bloc (antifa) were stopping assaults, putting out fires, and rendering first aid while the feral BLM and antifa crazies were rioting.

Iwan Hughes
Iwan Hughes
2 months ago

It’s my impression that the beaks are handing down the most exemplary sentences to the least guilty people as a form of threat to the rest of us. The threat is ‘watch your step, or it could be you next, whoever you are’.

Keith Merrick
Keith Merrick
2 months ago

Very good article. I myself have been wondering just how ‘far-right’ these rioters were. That three-way split has the ring of truth about it; certainly more so than, ‘All of the rioters were right-wing thugs’.

Vici C
Vici C
2 months ago

Yep, pretty much the conclusion I arrived at. Nice to see it in print.

John Riordan
John Riordan
2 months ago

Interesting, but I would ask more questions about the actual political values of all three of these types of rioter. If, that is, we are to analyse whether categorising any or all of them as “far right” is accurate.

My first point (and, I know, I do harp on about it) is that politically speaking there is only one characteristic that that always distinguishes a view as being right-wing: it is a belief in limited government. All the other stuff also often characterised as right-wing – social conservatism, patriotism, nationalism, civil libertarianism, freedom of religion etc – these are views which can exist on the Left as easily as anywhere else on the political spectrum. Small government, conversely, cannot exist on the political Left – it is definitionally incompatible.

So it must follow that even if these rioters are indeed fuelled by racist ideology, that is not a sufficient basis for calling them far-right. They have to also belief in small government, and while I suppose it’s possible that they do, I suspect it’s a good deal more likely they like the NHS and state-run education, believe in unionised labour, think the State should be providing social housing to people like themselves etc – but in a society that doesn’t simply let in loads of foreign people who are entitled to all those things as well. In that case, they share most of their views with the Left with the glaring exception of open borders and multiculturalism. But even allowing for that stark difference of opinion, it is surely not plausible that a person can share a majority of political views with a leftwing person but be bounced all the way across the political spectrum to the far-right solely on the strength of such a difference? And if it is, doesn’t it simply make the concept of far-right meaningless?

It is of course very convenient for the Left to use this dismissive phrase to jointly categorise genuine racists and merely those who are angry about the abuse of immigration to cynically further leftwing political objectives, because it helps evade the closer inspection that will inevitably reveal that most of these people are actually probably Labour Party voters, at least in the past if not more recently.

But there is no reason at all why the Left should get away with this deceit.

c hutchinson
c hutchinson
2 months ago

The riots didn’t happen because bad people just felt like rioting. They were the result of the terrible policy allowing unlimited immigration by people who have no intention of assimilating. One must question why so many Muslims want to come to Britain and the US and try to make London or Minneapolis a new Damascus or Tehran. The bad policy created a tinderbox and instead of trying to fix the problem, governments are doubling down by punishing people who protest the bad policy. It makes little difference who strikes the match.

Dark Horse
Dark Horse
2 months ago

I saw a video of the protests in Middlesborough – there was one young lad – masked – with a golf club – just wandering along with the protesters – through a truly god forsaken neighbourhood – no trees – nothing – just randomly smashing front room windows and car windscreens – with all the joy of a bored and pointless person kicking a tin can down the road – destruction purely for the sake of destruction – he looked utterly lost – as if his life had no meaning or purpose at all.

Charles Wells
Charles Wells
2 months ago

The article suggests that those who took part in the rioting or were ‘riot adjacent’, fall in to three categories 1. Racists, 2. Criminals and 3. Losers. The author of this drivel appears to be a senior lecturer in criminology and one would have hoped for more intellectual insight rather than regurgitating ‘elite’ narratives.

Brett H
Brett H
2 months ago

Even though these people are not represented by Trump I feel they may be watching the outcome of the coming election. If he loses then I think their frustration will be fired up, maybe not immediately, or on the surface, but it will add to their feelings of impotence and possibly their actions.
If Trump does win they’ll see it as their win as well. They’ll find more of what they are in Trump than in their own leaders. In their minds the existing UK government will be sidelined as irrelevant and an obstacle to their being heard.
Either way the government will be faced with a growing prison population and bitter resentment on the street.

Christopher Chantrill
Christopher Chantrill
2 months ago

Repeat after me twelve times before breakfast: “far-Right thugs.”
It’s the way to clear your brain of disinformation and misinformation before you start the day.