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Israel is no longer Britain’s war The conflict has become an outlet for our tribalism

'The Israelis will crush Hamas, slowly and bloodily, but inevitably.' Marcus Yam/Los Angeles Times/Getty Images

'The Israelis will crush Hamas, slowly and bloodily, but inevitably.' Marcus Yam/Los Angeles Times/Getty Images


October 21, 2023   9 mins

In the wake of Hamas’s bloody and murderous raid into Israel, as Israeli jets pulverise the Gaza Strip in advance of its looming punitive expedition, the Western discourse surrounding the century-old conflict feels both novel and wearily familiar. Familiar in that it feels we have suddenly been transported through a wormhole back to the heady days of The Euston Manifesto, as the righteous bloodlust of the sensible centrists has been awoken once again; and yet novel in that it is now all filtered through the distorting mirror of our social media-fuelled culture war.

The effects are remarkable: though there is no obvious linkage between any of these matters, if I knew your opinions on wokeness or gender issues, or on Net Zero or Covid restrictions, then I could ascertain, with 99% accuracy, your opinions on a distant ethnic conflict in the Middle East. Such is the power of tribalism, though there is no essential reason why the dividing lines should have been drawn in this particular way. The poles could just as easily be reversed, and indeed once they were.

In his memoir, Experience, Martin Amis quotes a letter he wrote home from Oxford in the late Sixties marvelling that “I met an incredible reactionary yesterday who supports the Arabs vs. Israel”, a striking vignette of the lost period when sympathy for the Palestinians was an almost parodically Right-wing opinion, and support for the Israeli socialist experiment was the righteous Left-wing cause. After all, Britain was forced to relinquish the Palestine mandate following a wave of Irgun terror attacks that established the Israeli state and which incidentally precipitated the UK’s last pogrom, in then solidly conservative Liverpool.

During the 1948 war that established both the Israeli state and the Palestinians as a stateless collection of refugees, it was the British-armed, trained and officered Arab Legion that fought the most effective campaign against Israeli forces. Back then, The Spectator, which today can publish a dispassionate consideration of the ethnic cleansing of Gaza, could as a matter of course publish a glowing profile of the Arab Legion’s Bedouin chivalry and Ă©lan. In an inversion of Northern Ireland’s modern attitudes to the conflict, the Arab Legion’s Assistant Chief of Staff, Brigadier Ronald Broadhurst — described by the new Israeli state as “a soldier of fortune of British nationality” — would later become Ulster Unionist MPA for South Down at Stormont.

The current dividing lines, then, are largely arbitrary, in a manner that highlights the paradoxes and absurdities of both factions’ Western supporters. Just like Palestinian and latterly Kurdish nationalism for the Left, a bellicose pro-Israel stance is a Western conservative affectation hard to read as anything other than a proxy outlet for muscular nationalist emotions they shrink from feeling at home. The millennial Left, meanwhile, generally hostile to the very notion of borders and welcoming to demographic change through mass immigration, strongly support the Palestinians’ claim to clearly defined, inviolable borders and their right to remain the demographic majority in their own homeland.

Indeed, framed in such terms, Palestine could just as easily be a Right-wing cause, a cautionary tale about the perils of mass immigration. The root of the Palestinian tragedy was, after all, the influx of Jewish migrants, many of them desperate refugees, which altered the country’s demographic balance irrevocably, and of which the establishment of the Jewish state was the natural historical result. Such a reading would easily lend itself to conservative fears over unchecked immigration, and as demographic anxieties become the central driver of European political discontent, younger Rightists could well, like the Nouvelle Droite of the Seventies, find themselves making sympathetic analogies with the Palestinian predicament. In Germany, AfD voters are the only voter bloc not to favour Israel over the Palestinians (though Germany’s dark history of course makes the country a special case). Indeed, the same demographic concerns are the precise reason the One-State solution, along with mass non-Jewish immigration, is unpalatable to the vast majority of Israelis, as it would erode the hard-won Jewishness of the Jewish state.

Instead, British migration anxieties seem to have transferred themselves, in centrist discourse, to socially acceptable discomfort at pro-Palestine demonstrations in London and other British cities. Perhaps, along with Europe’s bloody decade of Islamist terrorism, this is the cause of eroding sympathy for Palestinians and growing self-identification with Israel among the commentary class. Centre-right commentators who a few weeks ago howled at the Home Secretary’s remarks on the failures of multiculturalism, expressing their satisfaction at Britain’s successful experiment with demographic change, now express horror at the results. Multiculturalism, they have suddenly realised, does not mean the creation of a rainbow coalition of disparate peoples who have all suddenly adopted the worldview of an ageing Times columnist. Instead, it means the cohabitation of social groups with passionate, often diametrically opposed, convictions about identity questions of the greatest significance, including ethnic conflicts in far-off lands.

Many liberals who spent the past three decades assuming that such deep emotions would immediately be shed on arrival in Britain, have, perhaps, been misled by their unexamined beliefs in the innate superiority of 21st-century British progressive norms over inherited identities, at a time when the very same liberals raised ethnic and cultural difference to greater political salience than ever before. The social-scientific literature, which British liberal commentators are proud not to have read or understood, is far clearer-eyed. As anthropologists noted back in the Nineties (before New Labour radically increased Britain’s levels of immigration), the British state’s policy of “multiculturalism” was the direct descendant of the colonial practice of indirect rule, maintaining the fragile harmony between rival ethnic groups through the co-option of ideally tame “community leaders” — a form of governance attempted in Mandate Palestine as elsewhere. We see this legacy perhaps most clearly in the aftermath of terrorist attacks or riots, where carefully-chosen “community leaders” flank police officers and the families of the victims to assert the state’s tranquil harmony and quell rumblings of discontent amongst the natives.

Of course, the British state failed entirely to extinguish Palestine’s ethnic conflict in the land itself, retreating in humiliation, and triggering a decades-long war that may now be reaching its bloody culmination. But we must hope its modern-day incarnation will be more successful in Britain itself. The centrist dads who a few weeks ago sang the praises of multiculturalism should count their blessings that they have successfully achieved what they claimed to desire: there is only more of its political results to come.

While it seems almost absurd, given the scale of the approaching catastrophe, to attend too closely to domestic political considerations, current Western discourse is worthy of note. For no apparent reason, the Gaza conflict has become the occasion for the centrist coup against the radical liberal-identitarianism it so long nurtured. Yet for the first time in my life, it seems, American commentary is more sympathetic to the Palestinian predicament than British media. Perhaps the root cause is changing demographics: just as British immigration anxieties manifest themselves through the mirror of the Middle East conflict, the growing confidence and cultural power of America’s Muslim minority is altering the domestic politics of the hegemon. Increasingly tired of foreign entanglements in which America’s record of victory is thin, both the American Left, including younger American Jews, and, to a lesser degree, its radical Right are less disposed to share the unshakeable attachment to Israel that marked their grandparents’ generation.

In Britain, however, it is hard not to read much of the present discourse as a hangover from the Corbyn years. While the elderly communist’s sixth-form anti-imperialism provided cover for genuine antisemites within the British Left and its electorally allied Muslim population, the antisemitism scandal which brought Corbyn down was just as useful a political tool for both the Starmer faction, keen to eradicate vote-losing Left-wing radicalism, as for the Conservative Party. The reciprocal accusations of Labour antisemitism and Tory Islamophobia which ensued possess the unfortunate appearance of mobilising British ethnic minorities against each other for narrow party-political ends. While that is a natural political development in any multi-ethnic democracy, it is a dangerous outcome for national cohesion. But within the context of the current war, the brief Corbyn interlude has had the effect of both parties competing to demonstrate their unswerving loyalty to Israel, and to dampen expressions of empathy for the Palestinian cause.

Yet it is wrongheaded to equate support for the existence of an independent Palestinian state, the claimed policy of Britain as well as of the United States and European Union, with support for the terrorist outrages of Hamas. Waving the Palestinian flag is not glorification of terrorism in itself, even if many of the attendees at the protests — which will surely only grow in scale and anger as Gaza is levelled to the ground — openly or privately support Hamas. The increasingly fervid support for Israel’s Right to do whatever it wishes to eradicate Hamas, and the equating of expressions of support for the Palestinian civilians with terrorism, as in France and Germany, risks punishing the Palestinians — once again — for European political neuroses and anxieties of which they are entirely innocent.

As for the war itself, the omens are not encouraging for anyone. The tragedy of the situation, for both Israelis and Palestinians, is that the logic of their unhappy intertwining led them both to this precipice: just as the Israelis cannot accept the risk of occasional murderous rampages from Palestinian territory, nor will the Palestinians accept that they must be driven from what remains of their land. Neither can act other than as they are: both the weak and feckless internationally recognised Palestinian leadership in the West Bank, and the dovish secular liberal Israeli peace wing that bore the brunt of Hamas’s recent terrorist atrocities, are powerless to prevent the conflict culminating in extreme solutions.

In just a fortnight, the scale of Israel’s preparatory bombing has already vastly outpaced the number of bombs dropped by the international coalition against Isis in Iraq and Syria over five years — bombing that ground Raqqa and Mosul into dust. The looming ground assault within Gaza’s densely packed urban fabric will not be easy for Israel, and many casualties on both sides are certain to ensue. As Israel assembles its largest armed force since the disastrous invasion of Lebanon in 1982, placing the Gaza strip under siege, as many Palestinians have already fled their homes as in the 1948 Nakba, which drove their grandparents and great-grandparents to Gaza as refugees from what is now southern Israel in the first place.

Where they will go, and whether they will ever return is now a major geopolitical crisis: both neighbouring Egypt and Jordan have announced that they will not facilitate the ethnic cleansing of Gaza in their directions. Yet when Israel eventually conquers the ruins of Gaza, it has no exit plan for how to extract itself. It cannot rule the Palestinians, even if it desired to, and yet it cannot allow Hamas, or an even worse successor, to establish itself in the wake of withdrawal. The logic of the war leads towards the final expulsion of the Palestinians from Gaza, an outcome which, having previously expressed its unswerving support for Israel, the United States now appears anxious to prevent.

While Israeli troops and armour amass on Gaza’s borders, in the north Israeli forces and Hezbollah trade artillery fire and rocket attacks. The scale of the fighting, which a fortnight ago would have been a major crisis in itself, is at present the very least that Hezbollah can afford without committing itself to a full-scale war. Iran’s statements that the coming hours will determine whether or not the Gaza operation becomes a regional war, and Israeli uncertainty at the nature of Iran’s response, have led us to the current uneasy pause at the edge of the abyss.

The deployment of two US carrier groups to the Eastern Mediterranean, along with a Marine expeditionary force, give Biden the means to intervene should Israel find itself embroiled in a war it cannot by itself handle. Yet American intervention in a war that could spread across the Middle East will not be an easy decision for Biden, nor long a popular one. A regional war will weaken the already ailing and overextended American empire further, while the civilian suffering that will ensue will shred what remains of its international legitimacy. Like Britain in the dying days of its own empire, the United States has found itself entangled in an ethnic conflict for which it bears great responsibility, and yet which has no obvious or palatable solution.

For Britain, the correct course of action is easy to divine, which does not mean that our government will follow it. The Israel-Palestine conflict ceased to be a matter for British involvement at midnight precisely on May 14, 1948. Britain has already committed itself to a European war in which the Americans are rapidly losing interest, and in which Israel has remained firmly neutral. Calls to sanction Qatar, the source of the gas on which British homes rely following our divestment from Russian supplies, for its hosting of the Hamas political leadership are merely an example of the worst sort of geopolitical virtue-signalling which characterises our political class.

The Israelis will be able to crush Hamas, slowly and bloodily, but inevitably: if they find themselves overstretched, they have the muscle of the global superpower to call on. There is nothing, beyond vague expressions of encouragement for both sides to respect human rights, that Britain can or should offer. It is doubtful, given the attitude of British centrists so far, that they will be as vocal to host Gaza’s shell-shocked and vengeful coming refugee wave as they have those of previous foreign conflicts: this era of European politics seems to have passed. Instead, the priority for the British government ought to be to ensure the safety of the British population as a whole. In the meantime, antisemitic provocations should be firmly clamped down on, and demonstrations robustly policed to ensure empathy for those suffering in the Middle East does not go beyond legal or moral bounds.

The entire Middle East is poised, steeling itself, at the edge of a war greater in scope and human suffering than almost anyone living has ever seen. With terror attacks shaking Belgium and France this week, and a synagogue firebomb horrifying Germany, the tragedy in the Middle East threatens Europe’s security. Hemmed in by past political failures, all that Britain can do is ensure that the coming bloodshed will not reach our streets.


Aris Roussinos is an UnHerd columnist and a former war reporter.

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William Shaw
William Shaw
7 months ago

Multiculturalism is not a complete failure.
Christian, Buddhist, Sikh, Hindu, Judaism, Taoism, and Confucianism all seem to get along in Britain without much trouble.
The one outlier of course is Islam, which seeks to convert or destroy all other religions.

Last edited 7 months ago by William Shaw
Matt M
Matt M
7 months ago
Reply to  William Shaw

Don’t forget the Woke religion, whose zealots are also a problem.

William Shaw
William Shaw
7 months ago
Reply to  Matt M

A problem, yes, but at least they are not killing people, yet.

UnHerd Reader
UnHerd Reader
7 months ago
Reply to  William Shaw

GIve them time and power then see what they do. I’m wondering whether to seek out the odds on J K Rowling serving repeated 2 year sentences once Labour get in.

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
7 months ago
Reply to  UnHerd Reader

Exactly. It appears that we will have to believe Starmer’s lie if we want to stay out of prison. I understand that the woke gloabist’s richest organisation is backing labour. Has he a right to be affilated with such a massive WEF supporter? this could be dangerous for Britain. It is what he is not saying in their convention which gives an inkling of where he is at.

Lesley van Reenen
Lesley van Reenen
7 months ago
Reply to  William Shaw

They are aligned with the Woke, or is it the other way around. Nevertheless they are leading to deaths.

Shrunken Genepool
Shrunken Genepool
7 months ago
Reply to  William Shaw

They are killing young gender confused kids

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
7 months ago

It appears that the grooming of the nation’s children will not stop under Starmer but get worse as he does not give women the dignity of representing an unalterable sex. I have lapsed from the Tories because of their inaction on this but Starmer looks like he will increase the danger in schools.

Peter Joy
Peter Joy
6 months ago
Reply to  William Shaw

Yet. Mainly because the adherents are all either female or have arms like noodles.

Andrzej Wasniewski
Andrzej Wasniewski
6 months ago
Reply to  William Shaw

Nazis were not killing people in 1923, they started a decade later

Dumetrius
Dumetrius
7 months ago
Reply to  Matt M

The Transatollahs, you mean?

Dr. G Marzanna
Dr. G Marzanna
7 months ago
Reply to  Matt M

That’s the worst one

Charles Stanhope
Charles Stanhope
7 months ago
Reply to  William Shaw

You forget to mention the West Indians who might have cause for serious complaint, but generally don’t whine and whinge and shout nonsensical theocratic obscenities unlike the demented followers of the so called prophet.

William Shaw
William Shaw
7 months ago

An omission

And Rastafarianism.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
7 months ago
Reply to  William Shaw

Or any of the isms.

herbertira.goldman@gmail.com goldman
4 months ago
Reply to  Clare Knight

The first Zionists were Christians looking to hasten the rapture, meaning pure Christians would go to heaven while Jews and Moslems to hell.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
7 months ago

Uh oh.. Fatwah on Charlie I fear!

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
7 months ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

Yes, it takes courage to speak out against Muslims, which says a lot about them right there.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
7 months ago
Reply to  Clare Knight

Every religion has its extremists.. a tiny but vocal minority.. they occur also in Judaism and Christianity..

Charles Hedges
Charles Hedges
7 months ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

How large is the minority ?What percentage supports violence against Israel ?

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
7 months ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

Away from a country with the rule of law the extremism is far higher than a vocal minority.

Shrunken Genepool
Shrunken Genepool
6 months ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

Opinion polling shows consistently that average Muslims are very much closer to what most people would recognize as the violent extremes. Orthodox Jews or Christians do not order Fatwahs. The sanctity of individual life is central to those faiths – however falteringly, and however many sinful mistakes and deviations. And right now the most violent religion other than Islam, cross the west is the woke religion of the secular left

Alan Osband
Alan Osband
6 months ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

Nonsense , just analyse the lives and purported sayings of Jesus and Mohammed and consider their likely effects as role models for their followers .

Gandydancer x
Gandydancer x
6 months ago
Reply to  Alan Osband

Christianity was a militant religion once and the result was burnings at the stake and many genocides, often against other flavors of Christians. So, no, the difference between Christianity today and the Muslins is not largely the qualities of their prophets.

Alan Osband
Alan Osband
6 months ago
Reply to  Gandydancer x

There have indeed been wars between states adhering to different types of Christianity , mainly in the 17th century .

However the difference between a warlord who believes he has been told to spread a new religion at the point of a sword and a sort of hippy figure like Jesus is absolutely fundamental to how their adherents in the modern world see themselves . How could it be otherwise ?

Seb Dakin
Seb Dakin
6 months ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

Should be OK. All he said was ‘demented followers of the the so called prophet…who ‘whine and whinge and shout nonsensical theocratic obscenities’.
I can’t imagine why anyone might think he was referring to the Religion of Peace.

Alan Osband
Alan Osband
6 months ago

Yes but black actual drug dealing and the gangsta culture / music which derives from it and which influences other young people is not exactly a great thing is it. Plus lots of black drug dealers convert to Islam of one kind or another . Especially in prison .

Last edited 6 months ago by Alan Osband
Simon Shaw
Simon Shaw
7 months ago
Reply to  William Shaw

So really a true democracy would stop this? If only we British were represented by a true democracy!

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
7 months ago
Reply to  Simon Shaw

I think it started to fall in Cameron’s premiership.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
7 months ago
Reply to  William Shaw

Yeah, like the bloody Christians!

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
7 months ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

Yes. It’s religion itself which has always been the problem. It’s divisive, which is an understatement.

UnHerd Reader
UnHerd Reader
7 months ago
Reply to  Clare Knight

Love they Neighbour, do good to them that hate you, go the extra mile – yea, I’m sure religion is really the worst.

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
7 months ago
Reply to  UnHerd Reader

It depends on the religion and it’s work. Jesus only taught to do good, but sometimes religion can be the enemy of God.

Peter Joy
Peter Joy
6 months ago
Reply to  UnHerd Reader

That C of E approach hasn’t been doing England much good lately. It’s Communism in a cassock.

Arthur G
Arthur G
7 months ago
Reply to  Clare Knight

Except only one religion condones terrorism today.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
7 months ago
Reply to  Arthur G

That is not true.. the ‘religion’ you speak of is a twisted version of Islam.. extremist, fanatics exist in every religion.. “by their works shall ye know them” …Jesus

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
7 months ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

But Arthur said only one religion “condones” terrorism. One might say even encourages it.

Dr. G Marzanna
Dr. G Marzanna
7 months ago
Reply to  Clare Knight

Tell that to the IRA and the orange loons.

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
7 months ago
Reply to  Clare Knight

Mainly one religion let’s say. I know we have the IRA and Orangemen but by their fruits you will know them, not by their words.

Mike Wylde
Mike Wylde
7 months ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

It seems to be the only version of Islam around though.

Dumetrius
Dumetrius
7 months ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

There’s nothing ‘twisted’ about it.

Conquest is at Islam’s heart. Its claimed founder was a warlord.

It is quite likely that the conquest *preceded* the commencement of the centuries-long process of writing its holy book.

A peaceful version of Islam?

Now that would be more of a twist.

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
7 months ago
Reply to  Dumetrius

It was spread by the sword if you read the history. Christianity was spread by the gospel and many gave their blood because of it.

Dumetrius
Dumetrius
6 months ago
Reply to  Tony Conrad

The Koran took many years to be finalised and conquest was well under way when it was. We know this from the overwritten fragments preserved.

The Dome of the Rock was likely completed before the book – the sign is the interpolation of the journey on the flying horse to Jerusalem so Mahomet could ascend from the building, which otherwise would have been built with no purpose. This one of many tangles you get into when you relocate your history for strategic reasons.

Charles Hedges
Charles Hedges
7 months ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

Have you read K S Lal on Muslim rule in India? What about Timur the Lame?

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
7 months ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

That’s what we hear but in practice something else happens when there is opportunity. Britain is more unsafe than it has ever been but one cannot say that. But you can say what you like against christians and you will still be safe.

james goater
james goater
6 months ago
Reply to  Tony Conrad

A key point.

Kev G
Kev G
6 months ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

Utter nonsense. The Muslims who observe a “twisted version of Islam” are the non-violent ones.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
7 months ago
Reply to  Arthur G

Agreed.

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
7 months ago
Reply to  Clare Knight

Can’t see what he said.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
7 months ago
Reply to  Clare Knight

Yes indeed; however it is crucial to distinguish between man-made religions and the fundamental message of the founder which, oddly is broadly the same, viz.. Love your neighbour. Evangelicals believe to opposite.
Judaism is a little different but not very…
“The most important teaching and tenet of Judaism is that there is one God, incorporeal and eternal, who wants all people to do what is just and merciful. All people are created in the image of God and deserve to be treated with dignity and respect”
… obviously Zionists believe the complete opposite about Palestinians.
If so called Christians, Muslims are Jews followed their founders’ teachings we would all live in love and harmony, wouldn’t we? But religious nutjobs believe do the opposite.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
7 months ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

All religions are man-made. “The founder” that’s cute!

Dumetrius
Dumetrius
7 months ago
Reply to  Clare Knight

Makes him sound so cuddly.

We know almost zip about the founder’s life in the case of Islam too.

Very little that is contemporaneous.

Way less than we know of Jesus, 600 years prior.

Last edited 7 months ago by Dumetrius
Bartholomew Whitheath
Bartholomew Whitheath
6 months ago
Reply to  Clare Knight

Such a waste of a comment. The pertinent question would be whether Islam advances the notion that “[a]ll people are created in the image of God and deserve to be treated with dignity and respect”. If it does not, well…

Dr. G Marzanna
Dr. G Marzanna
7 months ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

The most interesting thing about religion is so people can hold onto it was so much devotion practice the teachings of it not one bit

Niall Cusack
Niall Cusack
7 months ago
Reply to  Dr. G Marzanna

Could we have that in English please?

Dumetrius
Dumetrius
7 months ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

The founder in this case urged ethnic cleansing, procured the death of a poetess who humiliated him by being a better writer than he was, and on the death of his wife, seems to have pursued the career path of errrr, warlord.

Among other things, too many to list.

Whether these are part of the message, one can even so, convey messages by example, and it’s difficult to avoid the impression that this is not ‘broadly the same’ as other faiths.

Last edited 7 months ago by Dumetrius
Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
7 months ago
Reply to  Dumetrius

Powell knew what was happening way back, but most were too nice to believe him. Everybody is as nice as us they thought.

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
7 months ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

I don’t trust in religion personally only a person.

UnHerd Reader
UnHerd Reader
7 months ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

Father Ted went down ok, try broadcasting Ayatollah Ted then see the difference. 😉

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
7 months ago
Reply to  UnHerd Reader

I could not imagine any of them being like Father Ted.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
7 months ago
Reply to  William Shaw

Exactly. A well-said succinct comment.

UnHerd Reader
UnHerd Reader
7 months ago
Reply to  Clare Knight

But wrong. Ask anyone who dares to speak out against the LBGQTIA++++ . Or is that a religion too?

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
7 months ago
Reply to  UnHerd Reader

It’s becomes one it appears. Pleading for tolerance. When given, then comes the oppression and opposition to our culture and infiltration into our schools, businesses and government. Thank you Cameron.

Last edited 7 months ago by Tony Conrad
Clare Knight
Clare Knight
7 months ago
Reply to  Clare Knight

True, that’s the worst one, nowadays. But haven’t Christians done their fair share of slaughtering in the name of god, in the past? It’s that damn in the- name- of- god, or Allah or some other supernatural thingy, that’s the problem.

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
7 months ago
Reply to  Clare Knight

Obviously religion has been abused in the past and still is. Religion can be the enemy of God.

Dr. G Marzanna
Dr. G Marzanna
7 months ago
Reply to  William Shaw

Nonsense. There are large populations of Muslim people you never hear about in the news but meet every day. The very successful Turkish population, which nobody has an issue with. The highly valued Egyptian doctors and engineers we benefit from. The amazing Lebanese chefs, creatives and business people. And more. Some practice Islam devoutly, more are relaxed about it while being as Muslim as I am Christian.
Open your eyes.

Charles Hedges
Charles Hedges
7 months ago
Reply to  Dr. G Marzanna

What percentage of the muslim population are these? If it came to the court of law would they give evidence against a fellow Muslim in favour of a Jew ? This is a simple test for any religion or political creed. Will someone tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth even if their testimony is detrimental to a person of their own creed and to the benfit of an enemy of that creed. If this is not the case, then the country is corrupt.

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
7 months ago
Reply to  Dr. G Marzanna

I will try to remember that when the next person is murdered in it’s name. Be nice if they would protest but they seem to be rather silent.

Robert Hochbaum
Robert Hochbaum
7 months ago
Reply to  William Shaw

I was thinking something very similar as I was reading the piece. It’s the thing that can’t be named. I would add that Aris, I am sure, prides himself as being someone who is willing to call out the powers that be in the name of pointing out uncomfortable truths in our world. But, even he managed to avoid that one. I’m fairly sure he’s not ignorant of it.

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
7 months ago

Everyone is allowed to blaspheme Jesus but you cannot blaspheme him.

William Amos
William Amos
6 months ago
Reply to  William Shaw

You say we get along without much trouble but that is largely because our interests do not currently conflict with the groups you mention.
Lest we forget it was not always so.The Jewish Lehi or Stern Gang staged a now forgotten bombing campaign in the UK after the last War This came after the assasination of the Colonial Secretary and Leader of the House of Lords, Lord Moyne, in Cairo in 1940. In 1947 they left a bomb in the Colonial Club on St Martin’s lane and later that year they planted an enormous bomb in the Colonial Office of Whitehall. The timer failed on that one but it would have been a bombing on the scale of the King David Hotel, but in London. Then followed an extensive letter bomb campaign which targeted the Cabinet.
Had we not ended our involvement in Palestine so precipitously in 1948 the terrorism would have continured, no doubt.
P.S.
I’m not sure the widow of Sir Michael O’Dwyer would have shared your view of the conformability of the Sikh community either, considering he was murdered by a Sikh Terrorist still lionised as a ‘freedom fighter’ in that community.

Last edited 6 months ago by William Amos
sergio bramasole
sergio bramasole
6 months ago
Reply to  William Shaw

Arab colonialism and Muslim imperialism are the root causes of the Mideast conflict. Every town from the river to the sea has Hebrew roots. Muslim settlers built nothing from scratch. Once conquered by Islam must remain Muslim – that is their core belief that fuels violence and war.
As a poignant analogy, the Soviet Union invaded Czechoslovakia and later Afghanistan under similar dogmatic views: once “socialist” must stay socialist. Which in turn led to the unraveling of Soviet Russia’s geopolitical hegemony in Eastern Europe and Central Asia.

Walter Marvell
Walter Marvell
7 months ago

But there IS violence here already. See the first cover up of a terror incident here. Watch the highly aggressive masked mobs chanting their hatred return to our streets while Jewish vigils are stopped for their protection.

Charles Stanhope
Charles Stanhope
7 months ago
Reply to  Walter Marvell

Agreed, it is only a matter of time before there is yet another major ‘Islamic outrage’ on the streets of Britain, probably before Christmas in fact.

Then there will follow the usual ‘weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth’ but absolutely NOTHING will be done to address the root cause of this problem.

Matt M
Matt M
7 months ago

Short of mass repatriations, what can be done? Of course, even now, we could shut the stable door to stop future jihadis arriving (and deporting those that do so on dinghies). But beyond that, it is down to the security services to disrupt terrorist acts. Is there something they are not doing?
Anyway, Happy Trafalgar Day Charles.

Charles Stanhope
Charles Stanhope
7 months ago
Reply to  Matt M

Indeed, and very remiss of me NOT to mention Trafalgar!
I shall endeavour not to forget Agincourt in four days time!

Dougie Undersub
Dougie Undersub
7 months ago

It’s good to see tradition being maintained, and even exported, wherever the RN finds itself.
https://twitter.com/britisharmydeu/status/1714948272031174828?s=48&t=bEVONVOu0wLxB2XXGnKYIw

Anna Bramwell
Anna Bramwell
7 months ago
Reply to  Matt M

Like the Home Office, who refused entry to a Christian refugee from Pakistan, and the police, they are all subject to their diverse employees.

Simon Shaw
Simon Shaw
7 months ago
Reply to  Anna Bramwell

Big problem

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
7 months ago
Reply to  Anna Bramwell

The home office fail miserably in their roll. They appear to sift out the needy ones being persecuted in their countries and accept masses in who would be the persecuters.

UnHerd Reader
UnHerd Reader
7 months ago
Reply to  Matt M

Ban all concerts where young girls are likely to make up the majority of the audience for a start?

Mark Turner
Mark Turner
7 months ago
Reply to  Matt M

I would be very happy with the mass repatriations…….

Arthur G
Arthur G
7 months ago
Reply to  Matt M

What was wrong with your first idea? Deport any non-citizens with Islamacist leanings.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
7 months ago
Reply to  Matt M

I’m for mass (re)patriation.. Wyoming is almost empty, a state bigger than the UK with fewer than a million inhabitants! Next door is Utah for the Mormons.. sure the Jews would be right at home, totally safe and can again turn a desert into a paradise there. What’s not to like?

Charles Stanhope
Charles Stanhope
7 months ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

The Kerrygold Republic would be a better choice,
It would make up for the Famine losses of the 1840’s would it not?

Matt M
Matt M
7 months ago

It is quite likely that a terrorist organisation much like Hamas will form the next government of the Kerrygold Republic. Also the leader of that organisation holds parades to venerate the memory of a previous leader who was N*zi collaborator who we must presume would have strongly approved of Hamas’s recent operations.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
7 months ago
Reply to  Matt M

That’s unworthy of a comment..

Peter Joy
Peter Joy
6 months ago
Reply to  Matt M

No, you’re way too harsh on Dev. While preserving a determined front of neutrality, for obvious enough historical reasons, the Irish Government was actually quite helpful to Britain during the war. There was actually by 1940 a mutually-agreed plan, with airstrips made ready, for British forces to reoccupy Munster in the event of a German invasion attempt there, something London and Dublin both feared: see Leo McKinstry’s excellent book on Operation Sealion.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
7 months ago

We’re working on it Charlie; 20% of our population is now non Irish-born.. all are welcome and contribute greatly to our economy and culture.. but the Zionists would be safer in Wyoming and the weather and land would be closer to what they’re accustom to.
Our Jewish population boxes well above their wright in Irish life, politically, culturally and economically.

Peter Joy
Peter Joy
6 months ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

Well, I can think of Bob Geldof and Leopold Bloom: are there many others?

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
7 months ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

We’re not talking about the repatriation of Jews. They’re no problem, they have no interest in converting anyone. Islam is the problem.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
7 months ago
Reply to  Clare Knight

The Jews are not safe in the Middle East.. that’s the whole point.. they have to flee.. Many already have and are doing so in increasing numbers.. The Palestinians are safe where they are or would be if the Jews settled in America.
That’s what started America in the first place remember? Nobody wants Palestinians, but Jews are super welcome the US.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
7 months ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

What “started America in the first place?”

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
7 months ago
Reply to  Clare Knight

The Pilgrim fathers were the main influences in how America turned out. These are those who were sidelined by the Church of England.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
6 months ago
Reply to  Clare Knight

Mass immigration silly.. 80% of Americans are immigrants or offspring of immigrants. 13% are offspring of imported slaves.. Only 7% are indigenous Native Americans.. Didn’t you know that??

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
7 months ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

According to scripture God is calling them back after two thousand years. Take it or leave it. He doesn’t make mistakes.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
6 months ago
Reply to  Tony Conrad

Not according to devout Hasidic Jews! They say Zionists are flying in the face of God because the Diaspora has never been rescinded! They btw are fully supportive of the Palestinian cause..
If you know otherwise please tell us chpt and verse where God is calling the Jews back to Palestine.. (and let the ill-informed Hasidics know while you’re at it).. I’m a keen Bible reader and I’ve not seen it!

Peter Joy
Peter Joy
6 months ago
Reply to  Tony Conrad

Though the large Ultra-Orthodox haredi sect are, on theological grounds, militantly against the existence of the modern State of Israel – despite many of them living within the territory it controls and, er, on Israeli Government benefits. They’re now being forced into the draft and don’t like it a bit.

Peter Joy
Peter Joy
6 months ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

Quite. Ever see the episode of South Park in which Stan mistakenly ends up in a grim Border Patrol juvenile detention centre with a hundred Mexican and Guatemalan children – then has a brainwave and makes them all little kippahs?

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
7 months ago
Reply to  Clare Knight

The Jews are starting to go to Israel. They are feeling more and more unsfafe here as time moves on. Our country will feel the loss but that is how it is going to be. I hope they stay safe until then.

Peter Joy
Peter Joy
6 months ago
Reply to  Tony Conrad

They’re safer here than in Israel, I’d say – though that’s not the case with France.

UnHerd Reader
UnHerd Reader
7 months ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

Anti-semites would still attack them.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
6 months ago
Reply to  UnHerd Reader

Not the Palestinians then? ..because Palestinians ARE a Semite people like the ancient Jews.. most Zionists today are Poles, Russians, Germans and Americans – barely a Semite among them!

Last edited 6 months ago by Liam O'Mahony
Peter Joy
Peter Joy
6 months ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

Well the Ashkenazi have virtually nil genetic link with the Holy Land at all. On the other hand, what’s striking when you go to Israel is how Arab the other roughly two-thirds of the Jews there – the Sephardis and Misrahis – look: in manner, posture, skin tone, everything. Most of them had Middle Eastern grandparents, from Morocco and Algeria to Iraq and Syria, often quite poor, and are darker than the Palestinians.
Some of the spleen-venters in the Daily Telegraph would have a stroke if they knew that.

Last edited 6 months ago by Peter Joy
Clare Knight
Clare Knight
7 months ago
Reply to  Matt M

Perhaps not allow them to wear the hijab to school. It’s akin to a Christian child wearing a cross. It’s divisive. Keep your bloody supernatural beliefs to yourself.

John Solomon
John Solomon
7 months ago
Reply to  Clare Knight

One thing we can do is to stop pandering to their stupid demands. Prayer rooms, time off during the working day for prayers, special considerations that would not be granted to anyone else – even special consideration during ramadan (underperforming because they are hungry, and expecting normal people not to eat in front of them.)
The hijabs merely make them look risible, but the prayer demands inconvenience everone else

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
7 months ago
Reply to  John Solomon

True. But here in America, I don’t think those things apply. The hijab is bad enough for children. A blessing for women having a bad hair day.

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
7 months ago
Reply to  Clare Knight

I suppose the hair cover is not so bad but the covering of the face is spooky. One needs to relate at work not hide ones expressions behind cloth.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
7 months ago
Reply to  John Solomon

Personally I think the Hijab is elegant.. when I worked in Malaysia you could tell a Christian woman easily because they mostly dressed like prostitutes. The Muslim women dressed in their “trouser suits” and hijabs looked fabulous by comparison.

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
7 months ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

I doubt if they were true christians dressing like prostitutes. Probably christians in name only.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
6 months ago
Reply to  Tony Conrad

Almost certainly! A dying breed, sadly, are Real Christians, ie those who follow the teachings of the Christ..
Love God
Love your neighbour
Love your enemies
..not a lot of it about is there!

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
7 months ago
Reply to  John Solomon

The employer has to pay for the loss of time not them.

UnHerd Reader
UnHerd Reader
7 months ago
Reply to  Clare Knight

The cross or crucifix is worn by many as an ornament and I suspect many of them probably don’t know who the bloke is that is represented on the crucifix.

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
7 months ago
Reply to  Clare Knight

As a christian I agree.

Walter Marvell
Walter Marvell
7 months ago

…And the certainty that any criticism of such violence will in the Brave Starmerite New World be made illegal. Its Islamophobic. And Labours proposed extension of EQ/Race legislation will see any expression of alam made blasphemous and worthy of visit from the State Militia.

Matt M
Matt M
7 months ago
Reply to  Walter Marvell

That is true. Under Labour, this will get much worse.

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
7 months ago
Reply to  Matt M

I would say if you have a good Tory MP, which I haven’t, vote for them. I cannot vote for my tory woke MP. I think I will vote Reform and not have a vote for labour on my conscience. Pity the tories couldn’t have done better.

Charles Stanhope
Charles Stanhope
7 months ago
Reply to  Walter Marvell

I occasionally attend rather large football matches, held in stadiums that resemble the Colosseum. The audience is predominantly white, working class, otherwise known as ‘the salt of the earth’. I am normally accompanied by an interpreter as my understanding of various regional accents is rather limited.

What I have gleaned from this experience is that the vast majority of the crowd/audience are thoroughly fed up with this multi racial claptrap and in particular the obscene pandering to Islam. One day, in the not too distant future there will be a furious reaction, the like very of which we haven’t seen since the Gordon Riots*. The catalyst may well originate in Europe, my guess would be France**, but it will be both contagious and catastrophic.

Sadly I shall be too ossified to participate, or even spectate!

(*1780.)
(** A rerun of 1789.)

Nik Jewell
Nik Jewell
7 months ago

“I am normally accompanied by an interpreter as my understanding of various regional accents is rather limited.”
Thanks for making me laugh this grey and rainy morning Charles (and for your comment yesterday).

UnHerd Reader
UnHerd Reader
7 months ago

Ironically you may discover a similar ‘Salt of the Earth’ audience in Iran’s football stadia who also aren’t so keen on their leaders or, it appears, the Palestinian flag.

https://twitter.com/glnoronha/status/1711101913544966265

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
7 months ago
Reply to  UnHerd Reader

The fastest growing church in the world is in Iran but they are persecuted severely by the Islamic leaders if they find a bible in your house.

Glynis Roache
Glynis Roache
7 months ago

I am thoroughly encouraged by your view of football crowds. However, for some reason, I’ve assumed that you must have been in the military which would surely have made you able to interpret their vernacular for yourself. Married (still, and throughout his service) to a Brigadier Retd. and being a northerner myself, I was defeated only once – by a Glaswegian corporal whose incredible courage and indefatigable chattiness I continue to remember with respect and affection decades after his death. But to the point : I’ve noticed a tendency for people on YouTube to declare that we – the British, perhaps specifically the English – won’t have the spine to fight should some ill defined uprising occur. All my experience tells me otherwise. I’m pleased you concur.

Charles Stanhope
Charles Stanhope
7 months ago
Reply to  Glynis Roache

I’m probably going deaf! But won’t admit it.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
7 months ago
Reply to  Glynis Roache

Ah yes, the English: Angles, Saxons, Vikings and Normans (the Britons driven out to Wales) …now hugely infiltrated by an estimated 20 million Irish over several generations, Scots, West Indians, Pakistanis, Indians etc. these the only ones who know how how to, or wish to, breed.. What is an Englishman? Does he or she exist any more? There’s only yerself and Charlie Stanhope left as far as I can see! No, wait.. sure you must be Viking? That leaves Charlie all alone… the last of the Nohiggins!

Last edited 7 months ago by Liam O'Mahony
Charles Stanhope
Charles Stanhope
7 months ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

Shouldn’t you be referring to Ireland? or ‘The Land the Saxons stole’ as you say?

‘We’ were there for nearly 800 years, that can have only IMPROVED the somewhat limited gene pool!

UnHerd Reader
UnHerd Reader
7 months ago

Truly the Irish are a wonderful race of story tellers. They invited in the Normans, who had just conquered the Anglo-Saxons then were surprised when the Normans decided they may as well take Ireland as well as England and Wales. The Irish then whinge for 1000 years (almost) about the English. PS Cromwell practiced on the Northern English Catholics before he turned up in Ireland. But then, as I say, they tell a good tell the Irish, I blame the Blarney Stone.

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
7 months ago
Reply to  UnHerd Reader

Ireland’s best days were at the time of the Celtic church before Catholicism. It was amazing how they civilised England, Scotland and many parts of europe.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
7 months ago

Indeed it did.. but they were not Saxons Charlie; they were Normans, ie Vikings who became French who became English (tho’ the headman called himself the Earl of Pembroke which I’m told is in Wales!)
John Bull nowhere to be seen: retired to Sherwood forest of somewhere like that, or died out maybe?

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
7 months ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

You are correct.

Peter Joy
Peter Joy
6 months ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

Pembrokeshire was always ‘the little England beyond Wales’ – even in the days of the Romans.

UnHerd Reader
UnHerd Reader
7 months ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

I’m an Englishman – born here of one Irish parent and one English mother, who was also born of two Irish parents. I believe the best decision my ancestors made was to move to England. Truly I have won the lottery of life. Though curiously Unherd doesn’t print my responses. Still , their loss not mine.

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
7 months ago
Reply to  UnHerd Reader

I believe you.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
6 months ago
Reply to  Tony Conrad

So do I, as a closet Anglophile! Don’t tell Charlie.. he’ll have no one to fight eith!

Maureen Newman
Maureen Newman
6 months ago
Reply to  UnHerd Reader

I had an Irish father (long deceased) and an English mother (not so long deceased). Like you Unherd, to have been born on English soil is indeed to have won the lottery of life. I love England (and the English) with a passion. As for Ireland
hardly a passing thought. From Maureen Newman.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
6 months ago
Reply to  Maureen Newman

Me too.. I spend 6 months every year in the Mediterranean (being an EU citizen) and for sure, I hardly give the old sod a second thought.. still I do return for the summer as I have family and one or two friends not dead yet.. I despise the concept of Nationalism. I’m a big fan of good people irrespective of the usual divides!

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
7 months ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

My name is a very old English name although my mother was Irish.The Celtic church in ireland was very powerful before they became Catholic and had a huge influence on Britain and Europe.

Last edited 7 months ago by Tony Conrad
Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
6 months ago
Reply to  Tony Conrad

Yep I’m aware of that.. Charlemagne’s tuitor / advisor was an Irish monk. Sure we civilised the English too, as best we could!!

Peter Joy
Peter Joy
6 months ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

You’re over-reaching. From c. 1200 – about the time it took for the Normans to blended in to the Anglo-Saxon population – right through to the 1970/80s, the ethnic make up of the British Isles population was pretty settled, with no major changes – other than southern Scots moving to Ulster in the 17th century and southern Irish moving to the industrial cities of Great Britain in the 19th. Stuff – politics, history – happened, but we were a culturally and socially cohesive people.
Within little more than one generation, that’s all gone. Britain is now polyglot, chaotic, humourless, a glum, deracinated, increasingly impoverished, low-trust, post-democratic, post-truth airport lounge with no communal identity and no happy future ahead of it: bombing, stabbing, organised crime, bride-burning, blasphemy riots, honour killings, modern slavery, hand car washes, and over it all, a creeping authoritarian Corporate Communism. But hey: ‘Strength Through Diversity’, eh?

Shrunken Genepool
Shrunken Genepool
7 months ago

Why-eye man. Y-alreet

Allison Barrows
Allison Barrows
7 months ago

The same can be said of a majority in the US with regard to the obscene pandering to fashionable, “protected” ethnic groups. Instead of following the MLK jr. model, which was the best and most obviously sane approach, hero martyrs are made of low-life criminals, violent riots are excused, gang warfare is ignored, and race hustlers grow rich declaring all white people are racists.
All of this is fixable, but Western governments refuse to take the necessary actions required to restore sanity. The last time we were in London, my husband and I were gobsmacked at the sheer number of Muslims we encountered: in nearly every restaurant huge groups of men in keffiyehs were clearly annoyed that they were sharing space with non-Muslims.
That was 1993.

Charles Stanhope
Charles Stanhope
7 months ago

As I write some 20,000+ of these b*ggers are ‘protesting’ on the streets of London.

Ideally the most sophisticated photo recognition equipment available should be deployed recording and archiving their every move.Subsequently they should persuaded to the very end of the earth, for a myriad of offences.

Sadly this will NOT happen today or even tomorrow, but one day the worm will turn and these wretches will find then there is nowhere to hide.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
7 months ago

It’s a good thought, however, they breed like rabbits so reasonable folk will be/are outnumbered.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
7 months ago
Reply to  Clare Knight

According to Douglas Murray Musims outbreed Johnny Blueyes by 5:1 so, given their population, Muhammad and Johnny Blueyes with have the same number of grandchildren starting to breed today.. Better start showing some respect then Johnny Blueyes is my advice!

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
7 months ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

I don’t understand how they will “have the same number of grandchildren.” Surely Muslims will have more.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
6 months ago
Reply to  Clare Knight

The Muslim population is but a small percentage of the total English population, ie 6œ% ..So if Blueyes and Mahommad breed at the same rate Blueyes would outnumber Muslims 14 to 1.. but as they breed like Irish people (used to), at 5 times the rate and the Muslim population is growing anyway.. in approx 60 years time Muslim births = Blueyes births! Millions of liytle Rishi Sunaks running amok..

Peter Joy
Peter Joy
6 months ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

I believe Fishi Snack is actually a Hindoo: a Parsee, to be exact. Hence, at least in part, his 1000% support for Israel and offer to supply additional HE bombs. Ever seen Suella Braverman in a hijab? Me neither. I think she’s Hindoo too. Cleverly, the Foreign Secretary? I’m not sure. Judging by his swift and supine visit to Israel, I’d again assume not.
Bumza Useless and the poison dwarf, Mayor Khan, are both Muslim, nominally anyway, though Useless is reportedly against throwing homosexuals off high buildings – or at least, he’s against it when speaking to the (few remaining) NUSNP faithful.

Charles Stanhope
Charles Stanhope
7 months ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

COVID Mk II, that should do the job nicely, IF Porton Down is up to stratch!

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
6 months ago

Sure, but they’ll have to up their game to identify religion next time, won’t they? Or is ethnicity close enough do you think?

Peter Joy
Peter Joy
6 months ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

I expect Dr Fauci is doing The Science on that right now.

Allison Barrows
Allison Barrows
7 months ago

The fact that Sadiq Khan is the mayor of London blows my mind. How could that happen? Who would turn their crowning city over to a Muslim pretending to be a “liberal” Man of the Left? I return to those crowds of keffiyeh-wearing men we encountered in 1993. No other explanation for it.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
7 months ago

The Angles came from Denmark, the Saxons came from Germany, the Vikings came from Norway and Sweden, the Normans came from France, the Paddies came from Ireland, the West Indians came too. ALL became “English” (those a white supremacy, racist movement reared its ugly head).. The Muslims will too, become English I mean like all those footballers and Tory politicians!

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
7 months ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

Surely they became British not English. I don’t think immigrants can ever become English.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
6 months ago
Reply to  Clare Knight

Like I said, if Angels, Saxons, Danes and Normans can become English (having driven out the indigenous Celt8c Britons to Wales) then surely ANY old dog or divil can become English? Note i omitted the 20 million or so Irish as that would be out of the question!

Peter Joy
Peter Joy
6 months ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

There’s one key difference: all the previous people you mentioned were European. Even the Irish.They could blend together a lot more easily, without colour as a highly visible mark of cultural division.

Peter Joy
Peter Joy
6 months ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

The Paddies came from Iberia.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
7 months ago

“persuaded”??

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
7 months ago

No Whites, No Irish, No dogs eh?

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
7 months ago

You’re a funny old curmudgeon, Charles. The fact that you’re an atheist is your redeeming feature. I’m sure you’d be a hoot at the dinner table.

Last edited 7 months ago by Clare Knight
Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
7 months ago

Ah yes, the English football hooligan; salt of the earth.. ignorant, racist yobs.. salt of the earth? ..more just plain earth I would have thought?

Peter Joy
Peter Joy
6 months ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

What a prejudiced remark. Britain used to have the finest football hooligans in the world, famed from Holland to Japan. But it is true that they’ve gone soft, weak and fat. These days, Russia’s hooligans are the Gold Standard: big, fit, strong lads, trained in martial arts.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
7 months ago

“The obscene pandering to Islam”, exactly it pisses me off. And to see women succumbing to male oppression by wearing the f*****g hijab in 2023 is so disheartening.

Peter Joy
Peter Joy
6 months ago

That’s why The Party is so frightened of football crowds: with factories, industrial communities and Methodist chapels gone, they are the last rallying/ mobilising force for the white working class. Hence creepy Lineker’s long tenure on MoTD, and the Woke-BLM-Rainbow-KickItOut takeover of the FA, now far more of a Woke campaign group than a sporting body.

Simon Shaw
Simon Shaw
7 months ago
Reply to  Walter Marvell

God help us all!

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
7 months ago
Reply to  Walter Marvell

Sounds like a dangerous country, even morally, that we will be entering under Starmer. Islam + LGBT/transgender. How sweet.

Micheal MacGabhann
Micheal MacGabhann
7 months ago

The root again cause is ..?

Charles Stanhope
Charles Stanhope
7 months ago

Our own feebleness, decadence, lack of moral fibre, call it what you will.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
7 months ago

Ah the truth at last Charlie!

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
7 months ago

…the root cause being? Britain’s inept and cowardly actions in 1940s Palestine? USUK arming the IDF to the teeth and giving carte blanche to commit genocide? ..and turning a blind eye to endless abuses, war crimes, crimes against humanity, breaches of UN mandates …or are they all irrelevant Charlie?

Charles Stanhope
Charles Stanhope
7 months ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

Liam you forgot to mention than we also gave them the Bomb! Or at least according to the late Anthony Wedgwood Benn Esq

That would be around 1966: and the ‘stuff’ came for the fabulously named ‘Dounreay’ facility in Caithness.

Last edited 7 months ago by Charles Stanhope
Charles Stanhope
Charles Stanhope
7 months ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

Come off it Liam that is the most juvenile statement of the many you have made today. You can do better than that.

Incidentally the only “cowardly actions” perpetrated in 1940’s Palestine were those of various Arab and Jewish terrorists organisations. The very nature of the war encourages such deplorable behaviour as your own beloved IRA was to prove over and over again from 1971-1997.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
6 months ago

This is true but you did run away Charlie.. and leave the place in rag order, as usual! I know the place was alive with terrorists of all kinds but wh9 armed them and trained them?
Btw my good friend Col. Gerry %$# (I don’t want him assassinated) who served in Lebanon said he could deal with all factions there.. rough and ruthless but he could deal with them all.. all except the IDF.. absolute bustards he said, untrustworthy liars to a man!

Peter Joy
Peter Joy
6 months ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

Truman and the New York lobby wanted the British Empire out PDQ – so that the Zionists could crack on with their project. And Attlee needed the latest tranche of New York loans, so the US was able to dictate the timetable.
But yes, given their history of rabid and always-unpunished violence against even the RAF, US Navy (see the USS Liberty) and UNMOs, and their long-established pattern of weasel words (e.g.’IDF troops fired towards’ (!) the deceased) I wouldn’t them much either.

Last edited 6 months ago by Peter Joy
Charles Hedges
Charles Hedges
7 months ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

The Czech’s supplied much equipment to Israel. The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem recruiting Bosnian Muslims into the SS would not have pleased Stalin.
Britain had India, rebuilding Britain, feeding Germany,founding the NHS and Welfare State to worry about post 1945.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
6 months ago
Reply to  Charles Hedges

Fair point.. you’d think the US economy and civil unrest etc would cause them to likewise but not a bit of it! War in Ukraine, two carriers off Tel Aviv and 800 bases around the world!

Last edited 6 months ago by Liam O'Mahony
Peter Joy
Peter Joy
6 months ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

As with the Yookay’s Trident WMD, the US war machine will be the one thing the Deep State holds onto to the bitter end.

Peter Joy
Peter Joy
6 months ago
Reply to  Charles Hedges

True, though the NHS didn’t build a single hospital until 1963. It just confiscated charitable ones that existed already.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
7 months ago

How does one do that?

Charles Stanhope
Charles Stanhope
7 months ago
Reply to  Clare Knight

‘Heavy water’.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
7 months ago

You d9 Islam a gross disservice by saying “Islamic outrage” ..the correct phrase is Islamist outrage.. Whenever an outrage is committed by a Jew or a Christian (they greatly outnumber the first) we immediately think of the word “fanatic” and never give a second thought to their religion; but when it is committed by a Muslim it is the first thing that comes to mind! That is hardly fair!

Gandydancer x
Gandydancer x
6 months ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

It is absolutely fair. Mainstream Jews or Christians don’t (any longer, at least) promote outrages at nearly the frequency that mainstream Muslims do. Things which are different are not the same.

The author write, “Hemmed in by past political failures, all that Britain can do is ensure that the coming bloodshed will not reach our streets.” But of course there is no sign that Britain can do any such thing. Because it has already let in too many MUSLIMS.

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
7 months ago

Maybe they are afraid of them and value their lives. Edward Heath started the mass immigration of them.

Last edited 7 months ago by Tony Conrad
Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
6 months ago
Reply to  Tony Conrad

I have Islamic friends.. not very devout mind, but they’re Aok, peaceful, quiet, kind and easy going; just hardworking, normal folk.

Gandydancer x
Gandydancer x
6 months ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

Letting them in was nonetheless a mistake.

Peter Joy
Peter Joy
6 months ago

No, just more astroturf Home Office posters, yet another candlelit vigil and some more ‘community leaders’ reading their agreed lines on the BBC.

D Glover
D Glover
7 months ago
Reply to  Walter Marvell

On the Daily Telegraph site is a story with this headline;
Terrorist attack in UK linked to Gaza
No comments are being allowed.
In a separate incident a few days ago a 70 year old Hartlepool man was stabbed to death by a ‘refugee’
Now the MP for Hartlepool, Jill Mortimer, complains that her constituency office is besieged by refugees who intimidate her staff.
It may not be Britain’s war, but it’s already here.

Last edited 7 months ago by D Glover
Charles Stanhope
Charles Stanhope
7 months ago
Reply to  D Glover

If these ‘nutters” were to replicate the tactics of their forebears, the fabled Assassins, there would be a very RAPID response indeed.

Charles Hedges
Charles Hedges
6 months ago

The assassins were Shia not Sunni; they even tried to kill Saladin.

Gandydancer x
Gandydancer x
6 months ago
Reply to  Charles Hedges

Your point is?

The current Muzzies kill each other, too. That doesn’t make it any better an idea to let them into Britain.

Simon Shaw
Simon Shaw
7 months ago
Reply to  D Glover

Indoctrination by the threat of violence!

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
7 months ago
Reply to  D Glover

The mistake you made was insisting all those colonised natives spoke English! If you had vision you’d have made sure they spoke French or German!
Of course if you’d stayed in the EU you could send them all back to France as per the EU Dublin Accord. BJ didn’t put that on his bus did he?

UnHerd Reader
UnHerd Reader
7 months ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

You must have a really terrible life over there in Ireland. Pity. If you parents had been as smart as my grandparents, you too could have been born English, and you’d be much happier for it.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
7 months ago
Reply to  Walter Marvell

I’m pretty sure it was the reverse..

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
7 months ago
Reply to  Walter Marvell

It is certainly here and it has been here for a long time. I have plenty of personal stories that do not make the news.

Matt M
Matt M
7 months ago

It’s a bit tough on Britain this article. We only ended up holding the Palestine baby because the Hun invaded France and eventually the Ottoman Empire fell to pieces. We were handed an intractable situation by the League of Nations and had to make the best of it.

Charles Stanhope
Charles Stanhope
7 months ago
Reply to  Matt M

Noblesse oblige!

UnHerd Reader
UnHerd Reader
7 months ago

Given that we diced and sliced the original Israel that was supposed to arise from the ashes of the Ottoman empire to a rump State that had the Arabs not attacked it in 48 would probable already have been overrun in later attacks. I find it a bit cheeky that the Palestinians aren’t more grateful to us.

Anna Bramwell
Anna Bramwell
7 months ago
Reply to  Matt M

It became important to have Chaim Weizmann’s support in 1917.

Charles Stanhope
Charles Stanhope
7 months ago
Reply to  Anna Bramwell

Paul Warburg’s was better.

Andrew Vanbarner
Andrew Vanbarner
7 months ago
Reply to  Matt M

I’m uncertain how much Britain can (let alone should) do, going forward. It isn’t your aircraft carrier group that’s moored off the coast of Judea and Samaria. British soldiers and sailors aren’t at risk, and perhaps they shouldn’t be.
There are two nations on this planet where Jews have lived relatively freely, and are able to defend themselves, and those two countries are, of course, the United States, and Israel itself. Both countries today posses fearsome militaries, of course, and both nations have political and strategic interests at stake. The UK doesn’t, really.
Insofar as the Philiistinians are concerned, their own history works against them.
Palestinians evacuated “their” lands ahead of the various Arab armies attacking Israel, and then found themselves very much adrift. Jordan took in thousands of Palestinians, and one of them assassinated King Abdullah. Lebanon took in thousands of them as well, and they quickly turned that country into an abattoir. Egypt won’t open its gates, understandably, nor will Syria. It seems no one wants millions of permanently aggrieved and impoverished people, particularly if they have a penchant for violent psychopathy.
That leaves Israel, whom most Palestinian groups have vowed to obliterate, as the court of last resort. Israel provides them with food, water, and electricity, and in most conflicts tries to avoid civilian casualties.
This conflict may be different, as Hamas – the ruling party in Gaza – intentionally targets civilians, and makes the IRA look like a church social. Hamas, if Israel is to survive, needs to be finished off, completely crushed, and wiped away from the world, from their foot soldiers to their senior leadership, in either the gritty precincts of Gaza, or in the glittering high rises of Qatar and Dubai, where Hamas’ real leaders reside.
Northern Ireland achieved peace when its partisans laid down their weapons and took up politics. Hamas and probably most Palestinians will do neither of those things at present, and probably into the foreseeable future. Israel will likely have to occupy Gaza, then, for years, until Gazans demonstrate the capacity for responsible or at least relatively peaceful behavior.

Last edited 7 months ago by Andrew Vanbarner
Peter Joy
Peter Joy
6 months ago

‘…until Gazans demonstrate the capacity for responsible or at least relatively peaceful behavior.’
Rather a schoolmarmy and hypocritical post. Well, at least Hamas didn’t murder a UN peace envoy (Count Bernadotte), murder a British peace envoy (Lord Moyne), blow up the King David Hotel (91 killed), hang two British Sergeants from a eucalyptus tree, shoot down five RAF aircraft in an unprovoked attack from behind and, more recently, deliberately sink the USS Liberty – which was flying a stars n’stripes the size of barn door – and spend eight hours steadily demolishing a clearly-marked UN OP with artillery, killing four European UNMOs, all while ignoring their desperate radio pleas to desist. Israel’s certainly a State that likes to make statements.
It’s easy to be ‘relatively peaceful’ when you can have whatever you want through massive military superiority, continued occupation, martial law, mass urban kettling, blockades, punitive demolitions and thuggish, illegal land seizures – demonstrating an ‘penchant for violent psychopathy’ if ever there was one; especially when the only section of the ‘international community’ with real power to stop you, the US, just smiles and gives you a cheery thumbs-up and more free money.
The Palestinians have had 56 years of ‘politics’ and it has got them NOWHERE. By the end of the decade, at the rate things are going, there will be little of the West Bank left for them to negotiate over – and Israel knows it. Successive Israeli governments have just run down the clock, while – as Ehud Olmert put it – eating up the pizza. ‘The facts on the ground’: softly softly, bit by bit, that’s the tactics. A fait accompli.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
7 months ago
Reply to  Matt M

…or the worst of it! At least in India you oversaw a two state solution!

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
7 months ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

.
oh, I thought you had.

Peter Joy
Peter Joy
6 months ago
Reply to  Matt M

Unfortunately Allenby was too effective a General by half.

Steven Carr
Steven Carr
7 months ago

Israel is multicultural. The Gaza Strip is not.
Palestinian Christians have been almost eliminated.

William Edward Henry Appleby
William Edward Henry Appleby
7 months ago
Reply to  Steven Carr

Maybe the West could offer asylum to Christian Palestinians only? There are still a few left in Israel and the occupied territories.

D Glover
D Glover
7 months ago

Britain couldn’t even give asylum to Asia Bibi, a Pakistani Christian woman who had actually been sentenced to death for blasphemy in Pakistan. She was turned away because she wouldn’t have been safe from reprisals here in the UK.
Shameful case.

Simon Shaw
Simon Shaw
7 months ago
Reply to  D Glover

Surely that shows that our whole establishment is afraid of Muslims? Is it too late to redress the balance? Not without bloodshed I fear but so be it.

Charles Stanhope
Charles Stanhope
7 months ago
Reply to  D Glover

Yes indeed, thank you Mrs Theresa May, MP.

UnHerd Reader
UnHerd Reader
7 months ago

I seem to recall reading of a Palestinian Christian terror group involved in firing rockets into Israel, or Gaza depending upon how well they are built. But I could be wrong.
The Muslim world is more than large enough to accommodate the Palestinians, the problem is wherever they go they seem to end up fighting their hosts whether they are Jews or Arabs.

Abe Stamm
Abe Stamm
7 months ago
Reply to  Steven Carr

Yes, the brutal treatment of Palestinian Christians has been greatly underreported by the global press. In 1945 there were over 135,000 Christians living in what’s now called Palestine…today there are only 47,000, mostly living in the West Bank. The media shies away from that fact that Christians have been, and are being, systematically expelled from Gaza…because it clouds the Jews versus Muslims narrative.

Last edited 6 months ago by Abe Stamm
William Edward Henry Appleby
William Edward Henry Appleby
7 months ago
Reply to  Abe Stamm

Yet, Christian, Arab Israelis also report discrimination in Israel. It seems that ethnicity and territory, not religion, are the driving forces behind the discrimination against Palestinians.

Last edited 7 months ago by William Edward Henry Appleby
William Edward Henry Appleby
William Edward Henry Appleby
7 months ago
Reply to  Abe Stamm

Christians are treated very poorly in many places, sadly. We don’t hear much support or demonstration on their behalf in the West. Usually they are the more educated and enlightened subgroup of their respective populations, and generally manage to make it abroad to a sensible host country.

Last edited 7 months ago by William Edward Henry Appleby
Dougie Undersub
Dougie Undersub
7 months ago

Don’t worry, William, I’m sure the Archbishop of Canterbury will be looking into it once he’s finished sorting out the Government’s immigration policy.

William Edward Henry Appleby
William Edward Henry Appleby
7 months ago

He would better serve Christians by visiting countries with Anglican populations who are being persecuted, and berating the governments there that condone it. I have little time for Stonewall, but Peter Tatchell showed great bravery confronting the persecutors of homosexuals; Justin Welby should show some more courage.

Last edited 7 months ago by William Edward Henry Appleby
UnHerd Reader
UnHerd Reader
7 months ago

Mr Tatchell isn’t quite so loudly proclaiming his ‘protection’ of children.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
7 months ago

They did run a hospital in Gaza until the IDF saw fit to blow it to pieces using, presumably British or US bomb or shells!

Last edited 7 months ago by Liam O'Mahony
UnHerd Reader
UnHerd Reader
7 months ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

Oh dear, there are none so blind as a bigotted anti-semite Irish republican. The Palestinians blew it up by accident. They are pretty good at hitting their own people with their home-made rockets. Perhaps you should pop over and show them how it should be done so only Israeli women and childen die?

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
7 months ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

Wrong it wasn’t the IDF. It was, in fact, Hamas who did it by mistake.

UnHerd Reader
UnHerd Reader
7 months ago

Liam would support the Islamic approach to Christians I’m sure, as would a few others on here (and no I’m an atheist or perhaps an agnostic, but there’s no doubt Christ had a far better influence on the world than anything before or possibly since.

Andrew Vanbarner
Andrew Vanbarner
7 months ago
Reply to  Abe Stamm

Excellent point. It wasn’t that long ago that 10% of all Arabs were Christians.
And at one time, there were hundreds of thousands of Sephardim and Mizhrai Jews living in numerous Arab countries, from Yemen to Syria to North Africa. Up until recently, there was even a Jewish man living in Afghanistan, the last lone congregant of his synagogue.
Hundreds of thousands of human beings.
What do we suppose happened to them all? They seem to have vanished.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
7 months ago
Reply to  Abe Stamm

One imagines those with brains and money are leaving this cursed land in their droves? Only a mad Christian would stay among the millions of lunatics in that God awful place. Would you?
Before 1945 of course, when Christian, Jew and Muslim lived in relative harmony under the Ottamans, was a totally different situation, ie before the British did their divide and conquer thing as they did all over the world! ..and f€ck up the whole shebang!

UnHerd Reader
UnHerd Reader
7 months ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

Yea, I seem to remember the Saudi’s loved the Ottomans. As did the Armenians, as did ….

Charles Hedges
Charles Hedges
7 months ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

Why did the the Al Sauds and Hashemites rise up against the Ottomans?

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
7 months ago
Reply to  Steven Carr

Ironically Palestinian Muslims would not welcome the silly people protesting their cause.

Shrunken Genepool
Shrunken Genepool
7 months ago

It IS our war. Judeo-Christianity is the foundation of western civilization. The barbarians are not at the gate, they are in the kitchen. Anti-semitic and anti-western muslim immigrants are in an incoherent but loud coalition with woke Marxian iconoclasts who want to do what they always do, which is to bring down society. It’s not ‘tribalism’ Wake up.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
7 months ago

There are also Reds under the bed and the yellow peril is hiding in your custard. Run! Run for your life.. the sky is falling!

Billy Bob
Billy Bob
7 months ago

It’s not Britains war. The Israeli’s made that very clear when they murdered the British in order to create their state in the first place, and again when they armed the Argies during the Falklands. We have no duty or responsibility to the place. We don’t even share a religion, not that I’m a religious man

Nik Jewell
Nik Jewell
7 months ago