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Israel and the rise of a new world order Iran and Russia see Gaza as a challenge to the West

Hamas rockets are intercepted by the Israeli Iron Dome (EYAD BABA/AFP via Getty Images)

Hamas rockets are intercepted by the Israeli Iron Dome (EYAD BABA/AFP via Getty Images)


October 9, 2023   5 mins

Within hours of Hamas’s attack on Saturday, the celebrations had started in Iran. The Office of Iran’s Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei released a new propaganda video, glorifying the so-called “Al Aqsa Storm” operation. In Tehran’s “Palestine Square”, regime flunkies handed out drinks and sweets to passers-by.

In the coming days, Israel and Hamas will dominate the headlines. But, beyond the latest battle in a war between Israel and the Palestinians that has lasted for almost 80 years, something else is going on. Two autocratic states — Iran and Russia — are consolidating a relationship centred on certain ideological tenets. The first is hostility towards the West; the second, a deep-seated desire to overturn the US-rules-based order; and the third, as far as Iran’s Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei is concerned, a clash of civilisations.

Iranian hatred of Israel, and its resulting support of its enemies, is so long-standing as to be banal. Iran’s Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC) has funded, armed and trained Hamas since the early Nineties, and while funding stopped in 2012 after a fallout resulting from Hamas’s refusal to support Iran’s client Bashar Al-Assad in Syria, it was resumed in 2017. Major General Yahya Rahim Safavi, a military adviser to Khamenei, has declared his unequivocal support for the attack, while the spokesperson of Izzuddin Al-Qassam Brigades went even further. “We thank the Islamic Republic of Iran,” he said. “Who provided us with weapons, money and other equipment! He gave us missiles to destroy Zionist fortresses, and helped us with standard anti-tank missiles!”

Russia has generally been more circumspect. It has had good relations with Israel, and President Vladimir Putin welded himself into his job by raging against Chechnya’s supposed “Islamic terror”, which he used as an excuse to level its capital city Grozny. But the more he has allowed his appetite for conquest to curdle into gluttony, the more he has yanked Russia away from the Western order that he once hoped to join.

Last year, Putin clearly decided that becoming a Western pariah was a price worth paying for filching Ukraine. But the price has been higher than he expected, so he’s had to improvise. Since February 2022, we have seen between Russia and Iran what amounts to an alliance of “rogue states” who need each other’s help as they are further locked out of international agreements and trade deals.

Only last month, Russia’s Defence Minister Sergey Shoigu (who has never actually served a day in the absurdly-medalled uniform he wears) visited Tehran to meet with Mohammad Bagheri, chief of staff of the Iranian armed forces, to discuss “strengthening bilateral defence and military cooperation”. Shoigu was then taken on a tour of Iran’s drone, missile and air defence arsenal at the IRGC Aerospace Force Headquarters in Tehran.

Shoigu also met with his Iranian counterpart, the lugubrious Defense Minister Brigadier General Mohammad Reza Ashtiani (who at least was once an actual soldier), and was shown several Iranian missiles (notably Paveh cruise missile and 358 surface-to-air missile). This is alarming. On 18 October, the requirement that countries obtain UN Security Council permission before transferring certain missiles and drones to and from Iran expires. Washington already says Iran is in violation for its transfer of Shaheds to Russia. Now, it might be able to stock up on badly needed missiles for its own war.

The Security Council deadline does contain a “snapback clause” for violation. But this seems unlikely to be enforced given the Biden Administration’s clear desire for a nuclear deal. Last month, Washington made a deal with Iran to release five American hostages in exchange for five Iranians held in US jails and around $6 billion of Iranian assets frozen in South Korea.

Now, the deal’s opponents say this cash has been used to fund the weekend’s attack. The White House has responded that there are safeguards in place to make sure the ransom (which is what it is) is used only for humanitarian purposes. It’s a nice thought but a naive one. Money is fungible. Even if the Americans could ensure the cash was used correctly, all it does is allow the Iranians to free up money they might otherwise have spent on those very things and funnel that to their proxy killers in Gaza and Beirut.

The Kremlin, meanwhile, has no real ideological interest in Gaza but it is making its presence felt. Hamas leaders have travelled to Moscow several times to meet with an assortment of Russia’s security personnel and politicians. In March, a senior Hamas official met with Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov in Moscow, just a few months after Lavrov had decided the Western response to Ukraine was nothing to do with Russian imperialism but something else entirely. “There was a poorly camouflaged attempt to take advantage of the situation in Ukraine to distract the international community’s attention from one of the oldest unsettled conflicts — the Palestinian-Israeli one,” he said.

The rhetoric here is notable not for its clichéd content, but for the fact that it was said at all. The Israel-Palestine conflict, like the war in Ukraine, represents a broader geopolitical fault line between East and West. Where you stand on each one is likely to define where you stand on a broad range of wider issues separating the two blocs.

For its part, the Islamic Republic has always had an East-West divide as a guiding principle of policy. Its founder Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini based much of his hatred of Mohammed Reza Pahlavi, the Shah of Iran, on what he perceived as Pahlavi’s subservience to the West. Like many unreasonable old men, Khomeini had a binary view of the world. His fusion of Islamism and anti-imperialism found a politically expedient outlet in Islam’s traditional bifurcation of the world into of Haq versus Batel (truth and righteousness against falsehood) and Dar al-Islam versus Dar al-Harb (the realm of peace and belief against the realm of war and disbelief). Onto that he grafted his desire to preserve Iran’s Islamic identity in the face of Western inïŹ‚uence: a resistance to what was called Gharbzadegi (literally: ‘West-struckness’).

Khomeini manifested much of these desires in a foreign policy that preached a non-aligned vision of “neither East nor West” (while of course still trying to export the Islamic Revolution abroad). Khamenei has gone further. The messaging coming out of Tehran is, on this point at least, unyielding. Iran looks at the West and sees civilisational atrophy everywhere. Civil strife, unemployment and homelessness are ubiquitous. Abroad, its failures in Iraq and Afghanistan and Syria are legion. Politically, it points to the rise of the Brics (Tehran applied to join the group in June 2022 and will become a member on 1 January 2024); the emergence of new trade routes; and the shift in economic power to the Global South. For Khamenei, this is where the arc of history is bending: towards the birth of a new world order in which three civilisations — a Russo-Slavic civilization led by Russia, an Islamic civilisation led by Iran’s Shia Islamists and the Chinese Han civilisation — are all in conflict with a declining West.

Putin is more rhetorically circumspect, but his thoughts are equally clear. “The trend toward multipolarity in the world is inevitable,” he declared. “It will only intensify. And those who do not understand this and do not follow this trend will lose. It is an absolutely obvious fact. It is as obvious as the sunrise. Nothing can be done about it.”

Whether it is a clash of civilisations, the desire to destroy the Western world or the drive to a multipolar one, for both Russian and Iran, this lens is the wider ideological prism through which they view geopolitics. It is the broader importance of the wars in Gaza and Ukraine. It is the prism through which they view possible Saudi normalisation with Israel, and with which they view the violence in Gaza, which they view as a challenge to the West and a net good for them accordingly.

For Tehran and Moscow, Ukraine and Israel have become two fronts in a wider clash between East and West. The United States has spent so much cash and political capital in helping to defend the Jewish state in the past half century that any defeat Jerusalem suffers projects not only its own weakness but that of its primary ally. Every Hamas rocket that strikes home is not merely another act of terror but yet one more hole punched through the Western order.


David Patrikarakos is UnHerd‘s foreign correspondent. His latest book is War in 140 characters: how social media is reshaping conflict in the 21st century. (Hachette)

dpatrikarakos

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Kirk Susong
Kirk Susong
9 months ago

“For Tehran and Moscow, Ukraine and Israel have become two fronts in a wider clash between East and West.”
This is a plausible connection, and I buy it. What I don’t understand is why we should think this poses any more serious threat to the North Atlantic order than any of the previous threats of the post-war era. How long can an alliance between totalitarian states with mutually exclusive ideological bases (Russian nationalism vs. Islamic jihad) survive? It is a marriage of convenience that will dissolve just as fast as it arose.
No, it seems to me that the primary threat to the North Atlantic order is not the BRIC’s newfound confidence and assertiveness, but the newfound self-doubt and moral indecision of the US and her European allies. The most interesting thing about the policy implications of the Hamas attacks, from my perspective, is the response of many Muslim immigrants and refugees in multiple European countries: celebrating terrorism.
How will this affect North Atlantic views on immigration and refugees? How long will the nebulous ideals that have motivated open immigration and refugee regimes continue to drive policy in the face of the culture shock of seeing people whom you have welcomed into your country dance in your streets as random civilians in other liberal democracies are massacred in their streets?
If those nebulous ideals of ours were to be more insistently focused and distilled… if the West’s power brokers had a clearer vision as to whether Israel really was in the right… it would take about two seconds to eliminate Hamas. It would come at a real cost to non-combatants, no doubt – but non-combatants that danced in the street, that gave “aid and comfort” to the terrorists. When will we decide we’ve had enough of that? That is what will determine the longevity of the Russia-Iran alliance.

Last edited 9 months ago by Kirk Susong
Jim Veenbaas
Jim Veenbaas
9 months ago
Reply to  Kirk Susong

Besides the sheer brutality of the attack, and its focus on civilian targets, the most disturbing thing to me has been Palestinian supporters dancing in the streets across the west. We have people throughout the west taking joy at the brutal slaughter of innocent civilians – women, children, grandmas, people at a music festival of all places. There is something truly wrong with these people. Even if you distrust Israel, how can you possibly justify terrorism on such a brutal scale?

Amy Harris
Amy Harris
9 months ago
Reply to  Jim Veenbaas

Be careful what you believe. It could be propaganda. If you are shown images of people dancing in the street, you don’t know for sure that the media has reported who they are, what they are doing there, and what they are saying (if speaking in a language you don’t understand). After 9/11 there were images of “people dancing in the street” broadcast that turned out to be from a completely different time.

Caradog Wiliams
Caradog Wiliams
9 months ago
Reply to  Amy Harris

You can’t make a comment on UnHerd without being accused of being on one side or the other. Your comment is totally correct because you can’t believe anything you see today – all news has been doctored in some way.

Andrew F
Andrew F
9 months ago

Really?
So, if you see Muslim filth celebrating slaughter of Israelis, it is just vivid imagination?

Last edited 9 months ago by Andrew F
Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
9 months ago
Reply to  Andrew F

…oops, I think you poorly fitting mask just slipped there! Now the problem is anything you say related to Muslims or Islam isn’t worth reading. Noted.

Last edited 9 months ago by Liam O'Mahony
Mark Turner
Mark Turner
9 months ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

Liam, you should have realised by now, indeed even from reading the article, exactly how an alarmingy large number of Muslims and Muslim states view the West and westerners……we are the enemy and they will not rest until we are subjugated…… It is naive of you to think that somehow this is not the case. The anger and righeous indignation displayed by Andrew F in response to the weekends atrocities is what any right minded person would feel. Anyone glorying in the slaughter is filth as far as I am concerned as well and they are doing so purely as a result of being Muslim. Religion of peace, my arse…….

Paul Beardsell
Paul Beardsell
9 months ago
Reply to  Mark Turner

This isn’t happening because Palestinians are Muslim. Any people dispossessed of their land and confined to a tiny corner of it would react. Name the people who would not? Understanding this is not to condone the recent viciousness, but merely to recognise it’s inevitability.

Mark Turner
Mark Turner
9 months ago
Reply to  Paul Beardsell

Yes, but Israel is going nowhere, its there to stay. The Palestinians will never get Israel ceded to them, this needs to be understood. The Israelis would co exist quite happily alongside their neighbours, as evidenced by long periods of “peace” between episodes when Arab terrorists and states repeatedly attack Israel…….if the arabs would only let them. The land is as much the Jews as the Arabs, and Israel is perfectly happy to let arabs reside within its borders peacefully………The problem here is miltant arabs repeatedly attacking civilians in Israel.

Paul Beardsell
Paul Beardsell
8 months ago
Reply to  Mark Turner

The two-state solution has been rejected by Israel. The viciousness of the dog chained up in the garden? It wasn’t vicious when it was chained up. Now it snarls and will bite when it gets a chance. No surprise.

Lorenzo Giccominato
Lorenzo Giccominato
9 months ago
Reply to  Andrew F

The same can be said about the Jews. “A dead Arab is a good Arab” if you’re a newcomer to the situation and have nothing constructive to say, and obviously you don’t, then shut up

Barry Dank
Barry Dank
9 months ago

Overstated when you say “all news” doctored. News is subjectively filtered. Doctored implies a premeditation which is there some of the time. Many journalists try to be objective knowing that they are prone to subjectively mediate events.

Carl Valentine
Carl Valentine
9 months ago
Reply to  Barry Dank

The BBC famously reversed footage of the miners strike in the 80’s to show miners throwing objects at the police and then being charged at by the police on horseback, the reality (now admitted) was that the police charged first the objects were thrown after. Even Andrew Marr admitted this ‘terrible’ account on his Sunday show. Just to repeat, this was 40 years ago, imagine what happens now with technology…

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
9 months ago
Reply to  Carl Valentine

Happily, today we have unbridled gullibility and mind-blowing naivety not to mention rank stupidity, all a nice fit for the endless propaganda spewed out by MSM.

Lorenzo Giccominato
Lorenzo Giccominato
9 months ago
Reply to  Carl Valentine

Thank you

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
9 months ago
Reply to  Barry Dank

..glad to hear it ..a dying breed within MSM ..hence they’re escaping to indie online where their integrity has some chance of surviving.

Mustard Clementine
Mustard Clementine
9 months ago
Reply to  Amy Harris

I saw a huge crowd of people flying flags in celebration of what Hamas did, ostensibly in support of a free Palestine, with my own eyes, on an overpass in Toronto.

I am sure many others in Western cities saw the similar demonstrations themselves, as well – and similarly have it burned into their brain, as I do.

That it is unbelievable does not mean you can’t believe it.

Barry Dank
Barry Dank
9 months ago

Better word is astounding, or simply disgusting.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
9 months ago

Don’t you support a Free Palestine then? Or do you think Hamas should present a strongly worded letter of protest whenever the IDF bombs mosques, schools, hospitals and homes; when they see their beautiful children blown to bloody poeces before their eyes; when they see their children tortured and frightened, the land stolen etc. Yeah, 75 years of endless, brutal, cruel oppression on a daily basis! ..yeah, a strongly worded letter is the appropriate response. Yeah, right.

Mark Turner
Mark Turner
9 months ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

The only reason any Mosques, schools or hospitals get bombed by the IDF is because the cynical Hamas terrorists that the Palestinians put in charge of Gaza ( great idea BTW….) site their missiles, ammo dumps and command centres etc in these places so they can go crying to the useful idiots in the west when the Isrealis hit back. They deserve everything they get. Hamas routinely torture and execute their own people who do not toe the line …. You are deluded and ignorant of whats really going on……..

Lorenzo Giccominato
Lorenzo Giccominato
9 months ago
Reply to  Mark Turner

You are delusional. You have no authority to comment. You don’t have friends in Gaza. I do. I have first hand information. Not media bias towards Israeli. Shut up

Lorenzo Giccominato
Lorenzo Giccominato
9 months ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

Thank you

Bret Larson
Bret Larson
9 months ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

You think Hamas goal is to come to a reasonable solution that is best for all involved?

Lorenzo Giccominato
Lorenzo Giccominato
9 months ago

The western media didn’t show Israeli’s celebrating over Palestinian suffering. This the problem. It’s biased media coverage. Nothing constructive to say, then shut up. You don’t have friends in Gaza, l do. I know what’s going on there with first hand information. Not MSM propaganda and lies

Last edited 9 months ago by Lorenzo Giccominato
Abe Stamm
Abe Stamm
9 months ago
Reply to  Amy Harris

This is the Gaza, “the world’s largest open air prison”, that’s conveniently never displayed by the mainstream media. The poorest sections of Gaza are always sensationalized, but the wealthy neighborhoods where the Hamas leadership lives and recreates are blacked-out. Google search beautiful Palestinian neighborhoods, you’ll be shocked.comment image This is the Blue Beach Resort in Gaza, located on the beautiful Mediterranean .comment image
This house belongs to a Palestinian businessman in the “occupied” West Bankcomment image?fit=1280%2C720&ssl=1&resize=900%2C506.25

Last edited 9 months ago by Abe Stamm
Philip May
Philip May
9 months ago
Reply to  Abe Stamm

Is this a joke? Something of a Jet Lag Travel satire?

Patti Dunne
Patti Dunne
9 months ago
Reply to  Abe Stamm

that’s an eye opener

Andrew F
Andrew F
9 months ago
Reply to  Abe Stamm

Hopefully this pictures are from few weeks ago?
Now it should be just pile of rubble.
Nothing to do with politics.
No planning permission and terrible architecture.

Lorenzo Giccominato
Lorenzo Giccominato
9 months ago
Reply to  Andrew F

Shut up

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
9 months ago
Reply to  Abe Stamm

Doesn’t the daily, indiscriminate bombing of homes and hospitals affect the tourist trade at all? ..or is that part of the attraction? And would you say that house is fairly typical of a Palestinian home or is it exceptional? You’re giving propaganda a bad name man.. tone it down a bit!

Abe Stamm
Abe Stamm
9 months ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

Hamas doesn’t care about the entrepreneurs that work hard to cater to tourists; they don’t care if those livelihoods are destroyed by Israeli air strikes. Hamas gets rich from NGO donations, donations from empathetic nations (included the U.S.A.), and funding from allied terrorist organizations. Again, Google beautiful or wealthy neighborhoods in Gaza, Ramallah or Jenin and you’re NOT seeing the wholesale abject poverty that the mainstream media is always pushing. Yes, there’s poverty in the Palestinian territories, just as there’s poverty in every State in the U.S.A., and every country in the EU and in England.comment image
Above is the Palestinian community of Taybeh, 7.5 miles N.E. from Ramallah, which happens to be majority Christian. It wouldn’t suck to live there.
Below is Jenin…not shabby…quite livable if you’re not Jewish.
comment image

Last edited 9 months ago by Abe Stamm
Lorenzo Giccominato
Lorenzo Giccominato
9 months ago
Reply to  Abe Stamm

Look up Irish MP Richard Boyd. He went to Palestine. You have nothing constructive. Shut up

O'Driscoll
O'Driscoll
9 months ago
Reply to  Amy Harris

It’s not propaganda that a Kosher restaurant in north London had its windows smashed, or that Free Palestine was daubed on a bridge nearby to taunt the local Jewish community after the weekend’s atrocities. There can be absolutely no doubt that a significant number people here in the UK are delighting in the slaughter, burning, kidnapping and dismembering of innocent children, men, women, grandparents, babies and young people enjoying a Peace Festival.

Shrunken Genepool
Shrunken Genepool
9 months ago
Reply to  Amy Harris

Bullshit….they have been out on every university campus.

UnHerd Reader
UnHerd Reader
9 months ago
Reply to  Amy Harris

They were burning and stomping Israeli flags right here in Times Square. I live in New York. These were not made up images.

D Walsh
D Walsh
9 months ago
Reply to  Amy Harris

You need to look up the dancing Israelis, now that’s an interesting dance group

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
9 months ago
Reply to  Amy Harris

Yes I guess it IS just possible that MSM might distort the truth on this occasion. I’m not sure if MSM has ever distorted the truth before but that may be due to my extreme gullibility, naivety and credulity.

Bernard Kelly
Bernard Kelly
8 months ago
Reply to  Amy Harris

In other words you can’t believe a single thing in any media, including Unherd. Is that what you are saying? Maybe the attacks last week were also propaganda, according to your theory?

Xaven Taner
Xaven Taner
9 months ago
Reply to  Jim Veenbaas

If they had mounted a disciplined attack on Israeli military positions, or even targeted infrastructure in the illegal settlements, I could have defended that on the basis of a right to resist occupation. But this is just senseless nihilistic slaughter. It has no military strategy behind it and now the innocent Palestinians captive in Gaza will suffer the reprisals.

Charles Stanhope
Charles Stanhope
9 months ago
Reply to  Xaven Taner

By their very nature ‘terrorists’ tend to avoid “disciplined attacks on military positions”.
Just ask the IRA.

Mark M Breza
Mark M Breza
9 months ago

Don’t be so Sanctimonious.
The nuclear bomb
did not differentiate between civilian or soldier !

Last edited 9 months ago by Mark M Breza
Charles Stanhope
Charles Stanhope
9 months ago
Reply to  Mark M Breza

Nor does a hand grenade for that matter, but can’t you stick to the point?

Incidentally I have never before been described as sanctimonious! Thank you.

Last edited 9 months ago by Charles Stanhope
Carl Valentine
Carl Valentine
9 months ago

That’s not true, pompous and sanctimonius.

Charles Stanhope
Charles Stanhope
9 months ago
Reply to  Carl Valentine

What a ‘chippy’ fellow you are Valentine!
Please convey my commiserations to Mrs Valentine.

Michael Layman
Michael Layman
9 months ago

Charles, always like your comment on Unherd. This only reinforces the fact that Hamas are terrosists, intent only on death. They do not want peace. Anti-Israel sentiment has surfaced worlwide and their true colors are shown. In 1947 Israel fought to exist, and now have the capcity to obliterate any foe. I encourage them to do so.

Paul Beardsell
Paul Beardsell
9 months ago
Reply to  Xaven Taner

The uncritical acceptance of the news reporting is, I think, evidenced here. The civilian deaths both sides have been high in the past. And are so in all conflicts. Count the body bags in weeks to come. The Palestinians are powerless in almost all respects, and they certainly do not control the reported narrative. To say so is not to support the Palestinians, but to seek the truth.

Jim Veenbaas
Jim Veenbaas
9 months ago
Reply to  Paul Beardsell

They slaughtered a bunch of kids at a music festival.

Jav Javeds
Jav Javeds
9 months ago
Reply to  Jim Veenbaas

IDF slaughter Palestinians kids on a daily basis. Just doesn’t make as good a read

Lorenzo Giccominato
Lorenzo Giccominato
9 months ago
Reply to  Jav Javeds

Thank you

Lorenzo Giccominato
Lorenzo Giccominato
9 months ago
Reply to  Jim Veenbaas

You turn a blind eye to Israeli crimes

Paul Beardsell
Paul Beardsell
8 months ago
Reply to  Jim Veenbaas

In 2023 prior to 7-Oct a total of 43 Palestinian children were killed by Israeli militias and the Israel army. Not one headline in the Western media! Now, I am not arguing for revenge, but it seems you do this. Now, a month later 10,000 Palestinians are dead, many many of them are children. Have you had enough now, are you hoarse from cheering, do you need to wash your hands?

Bill Bailey
Bill Bailey
9 months ago
Reply to  Paul Beardsell

The truth is that Iran, Gaza, Lebanon, and the West Bank are populations like that of North Korea, oppressed by their own more than anyone else.

Lorenzo Giccominato
Lorenzo Giccominato
9 months ago
Reply to  Bill Bailey

Shut up. You are delusional

Lorenzo Giccominato
Lorenzo Giccominato
9 months ago
Reply to  Bill Bailey

You have no authority. You don’t have friends in Gaza. I do. I have first hand information. And no, I’m not Palestinian. FYI I’m Italian and l stand with Palestine

Paul Beardsell
Paul Beardsell
9 months ago
Reply to  Bill Bailey

That may be true. But it ignores the history. The Palestinians were evicted from their own land and have been cooped up in Gaza for decades. What kind of people anywhere would not revolt against this? To understand this is not the same as condoning the nature of the recent violence.

Lesley van Reenen
Lesley van Reenen
9 months ago
Reply to  Paul Beardsell

I was expecting comments like this. There is no justifying the slaughter of hundreds of young civilians. This was a focussed attack and not collateral damage.

Warren Trees
Warren Trees
9 months ago

Yes, and any commenter who thinks this is not a fight between civilizations is completely deluded. I originally thought the West has had their head in the sand, but given what the U.S. has done in the last several years, how can one conclude that it is not adding fuel to the fire? Does any rational human being still believe that Iran wants nukes for peaceful purposes?

Jav Javeds
Jav Javeds
9 months ago

IDF slaughter Palestinian kids on a daily basis. Just doesn’t make fine reading

Lorenzo Giccominato
Lorenzo Giccominato
9 months ago

Shut up. You turn a blind eye to Israeli crimes. Look up Rachel Corrie. She was murdered by the IDF. But of course, Israeli’s got away with murder

Last edited 9 months ago by Lorenzo Giccominato
Alan Girling
Alan Girling
9 months ago
Reply to  Paul Beardsell

Nonsense. They control the whole narrative. Colonialist Israel. Apartheid Israel. White Supremacist Israel. Genocidal Israel. All lies told by the Palestinian propaganda machine and eaten up by woke elites and their lapdogs in the media. On almost every level our institutions have been captured by the work mind virus, and anti-Semitic anti-Israel narrative is a particularly cartoonish mapping of identity politics victimology onto an actual and easily verifiable history.

Paul Beardsell
Paul Beardsell
8 months ago
Reply to  Alan Girling

This is not true. This week a brilliant cartoonist was fired by The Guardian for submitting a cartoon showing Netanyahu wearing boxing gloves preparing for precision surgery on Gaza. MNBC has placed it’s three Muslim presenters off air. This is the picture throughout the established media which may as well be under Israeli control: The Palestinian POV is not being represented.

Lorenzo Giccominato
Lorenzo Giccominato
9 months ago
Reply to  Paul Beardsell

Thank you. But the Palestinian suffering in terms of beatings, jail, brutal occupation, killings eclipses that of the Israeli’s

Paul Beardsell
Paul Beardsell
9 months ago
Reply to  Jim Veenbaas

“There is something truly wrong with these people.” That’s racism and bigotry. “These people” are just like you and me. I do not support what they do, but I think it’s easy to understand, and I think I might react like them in their position. More to the point, and this is my point, I think you might too.
Understanding is not condoning. But the idea that “these people” react as they do unprovoked is to dehumanise them. They can now be slaughtered in return with a clear conscience. By the likes of you (and me), I suggest.

Jim Veenbaas
Jim Veenbaas
9 months ago
Reply to  Paul Beardsell

If judging people who dance on the graves of slaughtered children makes me a racist, I’m okay with that.

Paul Devlin
Paul Devlin
9 months ago
Reply to  Jim Veenbaas

Do you judge the young British Jews that fly across the world to join Israel’s military, rather than that of their own country, to oppress people that never hurt them?

Lesley van Reenen
Lesley van Reenen
9 months ago
Reply to  Paul Devlin

You are conflating issues. So convenient,

Jav Javeds
Jav Javeds
9 months ago
Reply to  Jim Veenbaas

IDF slaughter Palestinians kids on a daily basis. Just doesn’t make fine reading

Northern Observer
Northern Observer
9 months ago
Reply to  Jav Javeds

Live in peace if you want peace. The Palestinians chose War and reaped Death. Why do you refuse to see it.

Jav Javeds
Jav Javeds
9 months ago

How do you just live in peace when you’re land is being systematically robbed and turned into settlements and you’re subject to daily humiliation?
Why do you refuse to see that?

Bill Bailey
Bill Bailey
9 months ago
Reply to  Paul Beardsell

No it isn’t, it is a shocking fact that ‘those people’ belong to a medieval sect and they are behaving in the medieval manner proscribed by that sect.

Rocky Martiano
Rocky Martiano
9 months ago
Reply to  Bill Bailey

It would be good if it was ‘proscribed’ but I think the word you’re looking for is ‘prescribed’.

Paul Beardsell
Paul Beardsell
9 months ago
Reply to  Bill Bailey

Do you refer to those who 1948 evicted 700,000 Palestinians? No. There’s nothing inherently bad or vicious about Palestinians more than there is of any other people on Earth. This recent vicious behaviour must be condemned, as must everything 1948 onwards, but you dehumanise an entire people and nearly 2 billion adherents of a religion.

Andrew Stoll
Andrew Stoll
9 months ago
Reply to  Paul Beardsell

These people might indeed be like you but they are not like me. That’s a big insult!

Paul Beardsell
Paul Beardsell
9 months ago
Reply to  Andrew Stoll

Of course I cannot tell for sure what you personally would do. But most people turn a blind eye to the underlying injustice, as I think you do here. In different circumstances many willingly join the Nazi SS or whatever. Would you? I can’t say but human nature leads to othering and one demonises the other. Of course, and I’ve said it already, I do not support the recent Palestinian actions, but they weren’t mad and bad when they were chained up in a corner of the land from which they were evicted. Palestinians are not mad and bad by inclination any more than you are. Oops.

Last edited 9 months ago by Paul Beardsell
Northern Observer
Northern Observer
9 months ago
Reply to  Paul Beardsell

No. There is no universal humanity. The arabs and muslim people are the product of a real lived history and present day education that makes them low empathy towards others and capable of the most inhumane acts – worse than the Germans ever did, more in line with the machete wielding Hutu militias.
You can call that racism all you want and denounce it all you want, that wont change a thing, there is sits, staring back at you – Reality.

Paul Beardsell
Paul Beardsell
9 months ago

I’ve said it already, I do not support the recent Palestinian actions, but they weren’t mad and bad when they were chained up in a corner of the land from which they were evicted. Palestinians are not mad by inclination any more than you are. Oops.

Last edited 9 months ago by Paul Beardsell
Andrew Stoll
Andrew Stoll
9 months ago
Reply to  Jim Veenbaas

Let’s be clear about the ‘Palestinian supporters’ you refer to dancing in the streets. They are not only extremist Palestinians and other misguided Musilms but seemingly anybody with left leaning political views. These people openly support a terrorist organisation. This must not be tolerated in any civilised society!

Jav Javeds
Jav Javeds
9 months ago
Reply to  Andrew Stoll

Israel has been terrorising Palestinian children for decades. Doesn’t make good reading though

Northern Observer
Northern Observer
9 months ago
Reply to  Jav Javeds

It’s such a shame that Islamic culture prioritizes Victory and Success for Islam over the lives of their children.

Jav Javeds
Jav Javeds
9 months ago

Does it? You clearly haven’t a clue. The shariahs first objective is the preservation of life. Check it out for yourself

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
9 months ago
Reply to  Andrew Stoll

“Left leaning”? I would say right leaning but certainly not right.

Barry Dank
Barry Dank
9 months ago
Reply to  Andrew Stoll

Anybody with left leaning political views would celebrate this barbarism! I personally know no one who leans left celebrating this. This is “imaginary” thinking on your part.

Northern Observer
Northern Observer
9 months ago
Reply to  Andrew Stoll

The New Left are morally bankrupt slugs. We must defenestrate them from our Public Institutions, especially the Universities and the Government Bureaucracies.

mike otter
mike otter
9 months ago
Reply to  Jim Veenbaas

Fortunately the perps leave detailed records – its not just the German’s love of paperwork and rules that bit them in the rear – the UK labour party membership lists and donations/membership subscriptions in the bank system records will lead any future law enforcers to the perpetrators if there is a sudden re-surgence in the rule of law.

Last edited 9 months ago by mike otter
Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
9 months ago
Reply to  Jim Veenbaas

It makes a change from Israel celebrating its destruction of mosques, schools, hospitals and homes in Gaza and the blowing to pieces of innocent men, women and children. The brutality of freedom fighters will isually be proportionate to the brutality of the invaders. Bombing civilian targets in Gaza is an almost daily event! No outrage for that of course..
If you torture my child and bulldoze my home and murder my family and steal my land and starve me with blockades don’t expect me turn up with a strongly worded letter of protest will you!

Northern Observer
Northern Observer
9 months ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

Freedom Fighters my Ass. Leave in Peace or Die by War. Choose your destiny.

Lorenzo Giccominato
Lorenzo Giccominato
9 months ago
Reply to  Jim Veenbaas

You are turning a blind eye to the Israeli crimes against the Palestinians for 75 years

Katalin Kish
Katalin Kish
9 months ago
Reply to  Jim Veenbaas

News channels in countries like Australia are at least wary about offending lefty/woke masses. So what they show is consistent with accepted public sentiment: celebrations, marches, handing out sweets, dancing in the streets in support of what Hamas stand for. In addition to at best measured support for Israel’s right to fight back.
This is in response to other replies claiming doctored footages.

Bret Larson
Bret Larson
9 months ago
Reply to  Jim Veenbaas

They have been taught to hate them.

UnHerd Reader
UnHerd Reader
9 months ago
Reply to  Jim Veenbaas

Have you ever been to Gaza? I think the Israeli general in charge of the blockade spoke of dealing with “animals” – if you treat people as animals long enough then that’s what they become.

Mark M Breza
Mark M Breza
9 months ago
Reply to  Kirk Susong

Remember that “War to End All Wars” !o!

Andrew F
Andrew F
9 months ago
Reply to  Kirk Susong

Great post.
However, it was obvious for centuries and definitely for decades that Muslim savages have nothing useful to contribute to the West.
No so called “mainstream” politicians in Europe would point this out.
They will come up with usual platitudes about peaceful Islam and how multi culti is a future.
While using useful idiots like archbishop of Canterbury and other Christian leaders to support this moronic narrative.
Unfortunately our King and the rest of Royal Family, it pains me to say it, are part of the same plot to justify mass immigration from cultures which want to kill us.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
9 months ago
Reply to  Kirk Susong

You forget: One man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter. To expect freedom fighters to abide by the Marquis of Queensbury rules is naĂŻve in the extreme. Indeed, the more brutal and oppressive the invaders are the more terrorist will be the freedom fighting. While I’m a pacifist myself I’m not naĂŻve.
When discussing IRA terrorism in my own island with an Englishman I would ask: If Hitler had successfully invaded England in 1941 would you have fought back? Yes, of course. In the light of his oppressive and brutal tactics what limits would you impose on your freedom fighting? Usually the conversation stopped at that point as the penny dropped. When your mosques and schools and hospitals and homes are bombed and when your children are blown to pieces before your eyes, the ol’ MoQ rules are kind of out the window.

Northern Observer
Northern Observer
9 months ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

If the rule you followed led you to this place, of what use was the rule.
Tell me Liam, how is the future of Ireland looking today? Will it even be Irish? And what pray tell are you doing about it my brother in Liberation?

Kirk Susong
Kirk Susong
9 months ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

“As the penny dropped…”
The solution to this problem is to explain and acknowledge that the British are nothing like the Nazis… and to show where Israel fits in these ludicrous metaphors, too.
False moral equivalences have become the stock-in-trade of the activist class.

Last edited 9 months ago by Kirk Susong
Maurice Austin
Maurice Austin
9 months ago

Off-topic and proud of it:
Just hang on a minute: “Like many unreasonable old men, Khomeini had a binary view of the world.”? Seriously? It’s a function of AGE?
Sorry, I hadn’t realised that the binary “net zero or boil” brigade, the binary “only white people can be racist” activists, the binary “support Remain or you’re a racist” brigade were all so OLD. Whatever face cream they use, whatever “work” they have had done, I want me some o’ that, because they sure as hell look like dummy-spitting infants to me.

Saigon Sally
Saigon Sally
9 months ago
Reply to  Maurice Austin

Outstanding. And funny. Something socialists never are…

Sue Whorton
Sue Whorton
9 months ago

Also deflection from the women being brutalized for standing up to the regime?

Shrunken Genepool
Shrunken Genepool
9 months ago

Those people celebrating in New York, Berlin and London should be identified, rounded up and deported to Saudi Arabia or Iran today. I don’t think liberal societies can survive much longer if they allow the enemy – and they are the enemy – to enter, settle, take root and infiltrate our institutions. Academics who have declared support should be deemed enemy aliens and interned. Clinton wants MAGA to be sent to the gulag for de-programming….There is no middle ground anymore

Pete E
Pete E
9 months ago

Here we again or as history put it “once more into the fray”!

Last edited 9 months ago by Pete E
Clare Knight
Clare Knight
9 months ago
Reply to  Pete E

Or history repeating its self.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
9 months ago
Reply to  Clare Knight

Itself damn it!

Jim Veenbaas
Jim Veenbaas
9 months ago

Of course there is a middle ground – tolerance. Once you start rounding up people, you are as guilty as the authoritarians you oppose.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
9 months ago
Reply to  Jim Veenbaas

There is no room for tolerance with religious fanatics.

Mike Downing
Mike Downing
9 months ago
Reply to  Clare Knight

I agree; it’s like the fantasy that you can bring up a child without ever disciplining it. Maybe it’s time to admit that Voltaire’s idea of defending everybody else’s right to say whatever they like is deluded rubbish.

We’re being played like idiots held to some magical ideal of behaviour which is used as a stick to beat us with, while those who basically wish to destroy us are given free rein to do whatever they like and their actions are always excused by our useful idiots.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
9 months ago
Reply to  Mike Downing

But there’s a difference between words and actions.

Andrew F
Andrew F
9 months ago
Reply to  Jim Veenbaas

This is very naive.
There should be no freedom for enemies of freedom.
People celebrating slaughter of Israelis don’t belong to the West.
Deporting them to systems they clearly claim to prefer, is perfectly reasonable option.

Jim Veenbaas
Jim Veenbaas
9 months ago
Reply to  Andrew F

But what if they expand the enemies list to include you and I?

Michael Layman
Michael Layman
9 months ago
Reply to  Jim Veenbaas

Tolerance has not worked so far.

Ethniciodo Rodenydo
Ethniciodo Rodenydo
9 months ago

The problem is that very many members of our Muslim communities who where not out on the street were quietly celebrating

Jav Javeds
Jav Javeds
9 months ago

Really? You are just a racist idiot for making that comment.
We were in the mosque in our hundreds, praying for peace and end of oppression.
But you carry on you you racist prat.

Ethniciodo Rodenydo
Ethniciodo Rodenydo
9 months ago
Reply to  Jav Javeds

Just because it is true does not make me a racist

Jim Veenbaas
Jim Veenbaas
9 months ago

I saw an awful lot of pale skinned people in photos of protestors.

Warren Trees
Warren Trees
9 months ago

It seems like we are now beyond the pre-game show of WWIII and just witnessed the opening kick-off.

Billy Bob
Billy Bob
9 months ago

Palestinians are no enemy of mine, nor would I class Israel as an ally. In fact when Argentina invaded the Falklands, Israel was selling them weapons.
This isn’t to say I support these attacks or the Israeli response, the honest answer is I just don’t care. I’ll wager more Palestinians will be dead by than Israelis by the time it all calms down again, many of whom will be just as innocent as those killed by Hamas at the weekend

Ethniciodo Rodenydo
Ethniciodo Rodenydo
9 months ago
Reply to  Billy Bob

You are right about the weapons

Mike Cook
Mike Cook
9 months ago
Reply to  Billy Bob

Israel agreed to stop supplying the weapons if the UK stopped supplying weapons to Israel’s enemies. The UK did not agree.

Jim Veenbaas
Jim Veenbaas
9 months ago
Reply to  Billy Bob

Palestinians are not the problem. Hamas and their supporters are.

Michael Layman
Michael Layman
9 months ago

Pretty tough to round them up. Better to give their identies to Massad, they will take care of the rest. Think Munich 1972, the terrosists who survived were ultimately assasinated by Israel. You won’t read about the next “wrath of god”.

Dougie Undersub
Dougie Undersub
9 months ago

And yet Biden and Blinken, Sunak and Cleverly, Macron and Colonna, von der Leyen and Borrell etc., etc., persist in imagining that Russia, Iran, China etc., etc., talk the same language as us and are ultimately amenable to negotiation.

Steve Jolly
Steve Jolly
9 months ago

I wouldn’t attribute much of anything to Biden personally, as he seems to barely know where he is half the time. All that talk is just that, talk, something to spoon feed to the younger generations who have no experience with or appetite for civilizational conflict and will for some reason believe it when politicians tell them ‘everything is fine’. It also serves as a distraction for how it’s been their policies that got us to this point. They’d like us to forget that three decades of unrestricted globalism and the resulting de-industrialization of the west has drastically weakened the west’s ability to fight the conflict that’s coming.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
9 months ago
Reply to  Steve Jolly

It’s not accurate to make a sweeping accusation against the younger generation, because you haven’t spoken to all of them. There a lot of young people who are very well informed and sophisticated regarding politics.

Steve Jolly
Steve Jolly
9 months ago
Reply to  Clare Knight

A wise man once said all generalizations are false. Nevertheless, I’ll stand by the assertion that the vast majority of young people, even including people up to my own age, who barely remember the 80s have become far too accustomed to a unipolar world where we could pretend to be one big happy planet and everybody could get along if we just all talked things out and traded with each other. Such delusions were only possible to sustain while there was nobody to challenge American dominance. I woke up to it sooner than most but there are far too many that haven’t yet and some who are so deluded that they won’t or can’t let go of that ‘one world’ dream. I’ll grant I’m not unique in this regard and there are plenty of others who get it. A small minority out of several hundred million is still a lot of people, and better than nothing, but I’d wager a lot of money that they’re far outnumbered by silly headed idealists who still believe the globalist nonsense and who are not prepared for the reality that we are a world made up of many nations and peoples, and sometimes the goals and activities of these nations will be mutually exclusive with the goals of other nations, and in such times, the only options are surrender, or some form of conflict. That is what I contend young people are mostly unprepared to face.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
9 months ago

I don’t think that’s true.

martin logan
martin logan
9 months ago

This “New World Order” looks a lot like the one that began in 1939.
Didn’t work out well.
For those who dream of a “Multipolar World,” well, you’re getting your wish.
Enjoy!

Andy Iddon
Andy Iddon
9 months ago
Reply to  martin logan

A unified world would need good “kings” to lead it, who are seen as fair and just by most. That really isn’t where we are, right?

Steve Jolly
Steve Jolly
9 months ago

More evidence for a budding Russia/Iran/China axis. It’s getting harder and harder to ignore the 800 pound gorilla in the room. I saw this coming a couple years ago after the pandemic and so did a lot of others. We’d best hunker down for a civilization level conflict because we’ve got one whether we want it or not.

Steve White
Steve White
9 months ago

I decided not to comment after all.

Last edited 9 months ago by Steve White
Abel Garrison
Abel Garrison
9 months ago
Reply to  Steve White

I imagine the US Republican resistance to a massive foreign defense spending bill will evaporate following these events. Calls on Raytheon anyone?

Warren Trees
Warren Trees
9 months ago

Does any rational human being still believe that Iran wants nukes for peaceful purposes?

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
9 months ago
Reply to  Warren Trees

I don’t think anyone ever did.

Michael Layman
Michael Layman
9 months ago

I don’t see a Russo-slavic civilisation independant of the West. Though diverse, I suspect the populace prefers the Western standard of living. Russia will be a non-threat the day the West becomes independant of Russian oil.
China on the other hand willl continue to advance its agenda on the world stage. However, given its dependance on Western consumption, it will not strive to destroy the West.
Iran on the other hand will continue to promote an agenda to destroy Israel and thereby the West. One gets the feeling that the populace is held hostage by religious fanatasicm. As they openly support murder of civilians, perhaps it is time to step up the secret ops against the state. Personally, I would take the gloves off against Hamas and its supporters. It is also time to take a close look at the what Biden has done to facilitate Iran.

UnHerd Reader
UnHerd Reader
9 months ago

This grand thesis is resting on a flimsy assumption, that Hamas displayed military might. Their operation was certainly well planned but its success depended on a colossal screwup by an incompetent government. No $6billion was required


Susie Bell
Susie Bell
9 months ago

Interesting thought this New World Order. I suppose we Europeans have imposed our thought processes, laws, priorities on the rest of the world for a very long time. But I do think we are looking like the last days of Rome now. We have become complacent, obsessed with minutiae, trivial, atomised into our special interest groups and it is at this point in our demise that we are filling our continent with people who do not care about the life we have made for ourselves. It may take a revolutionary resolve to wake us from this torpor and unite us once again to save our way of living, even our race.

john d rockemella
john d rockemella
9 months ago

Is it not very strange that we go from Covid, to energy crisis, to Ukraine, to migrant crisis, to gender ideology, to israel, and all whilst the west totally in-debts their nations whilst bringing in dystopian censorship rules pushing freedom of speech and freedom of movement and the right to protest out of the window. Society should wake up the plan and stop getting involved in mainstream propaganda. The small focus on narrow windows keeps your vision occupied by fake issues when the world is crumbling. I only wish we could collectively move to a better platform which does not allow us all to be split by differing views. Tolerance and love and compassion will be the only thing that frees us.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
9 months ago

We’re beyond that. Our brains have not evolved. The climate is changing faster than we are.

James Kirk
James Kirk
9 months ago

Israel is a force to be reckoned with and I’d suggest they’ll target Iran munitions stocks and factories very soon. On the grounds of denying Hamas, justifiable, while denying Russian procurement, oh dear, sorry. Hamas will be hunted down and slaughtered as they cower behind civilians and hostages. A cynic could say Israel’s hawks didn’t intercept the attack deliberately in order to motivate a devastating reaction. I doubt they ever sleep. Unfortunately those peaceful innocent Gazans left are pawns in a deadly game. The mere shooting of an Archduke triggered WW1. What lies ahead? Whatever, the West will have to wake up.

Andy Iddon
Andy Iddon
9 months ago

The problem, to my mind, is that neither side is better than the other – they have heartfelt reason to distrust and even hate the west, whilst the corruption of the west is plain to see, perhaps through the contempt of the elite for their electorates, more likely through the recent wars fought under our flags. I guess neither side rules the world (yet)

Last edited 9 months ago by Andy Iddon
UnHerd Reader
UnHerd Reader
9 months ago

For Tehran and Moscow, Ukraine and Israel have become two fronts in a wider clash between East and West

Zzzz… All this is true, in spades, for Washington and London. I seek out differing views to my own, but what is the point of articles like this that just reheat standard US imperial rhetoric? The main prism is the continuing attempts by the United States (and its Western surrogates) to maintain their domination of the world. Even John Lewis Gaddis is prepared to speak of the US Empire, so anything (like this article) that ignores such a salient feature of international affairs can contain little to nothing of interest. The Western “rules-based order”!!! Funny.

Last edited 9 months ago by UnHerd Reader
Malcolm Powell
Malcolm Powell
9 months ago

Could Israel completely destroy the infrastructure of Gaza (shops residences etc) much like what happened to german and Japanese cities in WW2. Do they have the fire power to do it. The civilians would be given notice to leave.

UnHerd Reader
UnHerd Reader
9 months ago
Reply to  Malcolm Powell

They could do it. The only reason Israel doesn’t commit genocide (they’ve done literally everything else to the Palestinians) is that it doesn’t look too good for the soi-disant Jewish State to be doing something like that. Supporting genocide in Guatemala is one thing, but Israel actually doing one itself doesn’t look too good.

Malcolm Powell
Malcolm Powell
9 months ago
Reply to  UnHerd Reader

Looks like they are going todo it

A R
A R
9 months ago

the second, a deep-seated desire to overturn the US-rules-based order

Bring it on. The rules they seek to destroy constrain us far more than them. It’s time The West reverted to an old school foreign policy devoid of moralism and those who so desire to see the end of this world order reap the whirlwind.

William Brand
William Brand
9 months ago

The bear has made an enemy of Europe with his war in the west. He has embraced China and forgot that China plans to eat Russia far east. His aemy has been destroyed and now NATO will not help as the dragon eats Siberia. His alliance with Iran is even stupider. Note the Bible refers to the war of gog and maygog in which Russia is broken

Walter Schwager
Walter Schwager
9 months ago

Israel and its settlers have surreptitiously occupied major portions of the West Bank and East Jerusalem. This movement has been supported by military might and suppression of protests, and passively accepted by the West. Basically the West, apart from some token lip service, would like the Palestinians to disappear into a rightwing apartheid state. And when armored resistance appears we ask: how and why did this happen?

Last edited 9 months ago by Walter Schwager
Katalin Kish
Katalin Kish
9 months ago

Israel’s best in the world HUMINT, OSINT and SIGINT capabilities did not serve their purpose: the world’s worst terrorists have learned how to defeat *INT. The same capabilities sold to Australia’s billionaire bikies work perfectly against crime-witnesses like me. We have mortgages to pay and we attend regular gym classes.
The hugely impressive Gaza fence which sensed a ladder gently placed against it was breached multiple times without anyone notified. Sabotaging tech is such a triviality, sadistic pervert government insiders from e.g. the Australian Signals Directorate have been entertaining themselves with not just sabotaging, but weaponizing technology in Melbourne for more than a decade.
Have we learnt a collective lesson yet?

Tyler Durden
Tyler Durden
9 months ago

I don’t see the connection though Israel and Russia have good relations.
Where there may be a paradigm shift is the possible use by both nations of a tactical nuclear device on Gaza and Kiev.
I pray this doesn’t happen to the poor people of Kiev despite their corrupt government, but it may well be a rational response to the unfortunate persistence of this terrorist state.

UnHerd Reader
UnHerd Reader
9 months ago
Reply to  Tyler Durden
Andrew F
Andrew F
9 months ago
Reply to  Tyler Durden

And Russian government is what?
Democratic and not corrupt?
You are just “sovietsk**a scat*na”.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
9 months ago

Pity about the first half with its one-sidedness and its peppering of poorly disguised hatred, because it morphed into an interesting piece later on. I particularly liked…
“… the arc of history is bending: towards the birth of a new world order in which three civilisations — a Russo-Slavic civilization led by Russia, an Islamic civilisation led by Iran’s Shia Islamists and the Chinese Han civilisation — are all in conflict with a declining West”
It does indeed seem clear that there is now no turning back as the prime mover, money (isn’t it always) shifts away from the US dollar to the new BRICS+ counter reserve currency. Hopefully, it is still possible for the West to participate as the 4th part rather then die an ignominious death trying in vain to assert its One World Order and failing miserably.. as that may end in a nuclear holocaust.

Last edited 9 months ago by Liam O'Mahony
A Reno
A Reno
9 months ago

.

Last edited 8 months ago by A Reno
Brian Villanueva
Brian Villanueva
9 months ago

The price of the West’s courting of Ukraine just keeps getting higher.

Jim Bocho
Jim Bocho
9 months ago

“Iran and Russia see Gaza as a challenge to the West”
When did UnHerd turn into the Daily Telegraph?

D Walsh
D Walsh
9 months ago
Reply to  Jim Bocho

The neocons want war with Iran

Jim Bocho
Jim Bocho
9 months ago
Reply to  D Walsh

I agree.

Alan Tonkyn
Alan Tonkyn
9 months ago
Reply to  Jim Bocho

You imply that this quotation indicates some kind of unthinking right-wing stance. It looks 100% plausible to me. What’s your objection?

Paul Beardsell
Paul Beardsell
9 months ago

All violence is to be regretted and abhorred. Let’s get that clear. But to frame this uprising as provoked-supported-celebrated by Russia and Iran is to deny-ignore the real predicament of the Palestinians. In any other world circumstance this would be universally recognised as an oppressed people rising up.
The dog is chained up in the corner of the yard not because it was angry or vicious but because others wanted the yard. The dog chained up in the corner of the yard has become angry and vicious. When one understands the behaviour of the dog in that light one is not supporting the behaviour of the dog.
ï»żThis is NOT about Russia and Iran and to make it so is dishonest.

Last edited 9 months ago by Paul Beardsell
Dylan Blackhurst
Dylan Blackhurst
9 months ago
Reply to  Paul Beardsell

The Russia connection I don’t get. But to claim that Iran has no hand in this conflict is at best naive and at worst lying to themselves.

It’s the same as ignoring the US backing of Israel.

Bill Bailey
Bill Bailey
9 months ago

We could have had Russia on our side. Russia isn’t in any way ideologically aligned with Iran, it is simply the case that ‘Mine enemies enemy is my friend’ and as Russia grinds down the West’s infatuation with Ukraine, it will feel less need to align with Iran.

UnHerd Reader
UnHerd Reader
9 months ago

Biden, and Obama, never were friends of Israel.

Jim Veenbaas
Jim Veenbaas
9 months ago
Reply to  Paul Beardsell

They slaughtered innocent women and children. They didn’t go after military targets. If feel bad for the Palestinian people because they are ruled by authoritarian dogs. I have nothing but contempt for the Hamas.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
9 months ago
Reply to  Jim Veenbaas

Exactly.

Bill Bailey
Bill Bailey
9 months ago
Reply to  Paul Beardsell

The biggest oppressors of the Palestinians and the Iranians are their own leaders. The fact that an Israeli NGO was recently exposed as attempting to deliver up a Palestinian to the West Bank authorities and the ‘death penalty’ for the horrific crime of selling some land to a Jew tells you all you need to know about who the real oppressors are.

Jim Bocho
Jim Bocho
9 months ago
Reply to  Bill Bailey

It was through purchasing parcels of land that Zionists began their conquest of Palestine and the ethnic cleansing of its indigenous Arabic-speaking population.

Abe Stamm
Abe Stamm
9 months ago
Reply to  Jim Bocho

So, one party wants to buy a piece of property and the other party wants to sell it. Money is paid, a bill of sale is generated, the title to the property is transferred…how it that ethnic cleansing? My father grew up in a Jewish section of Newark, New Jersey in the 1920’s to 30’s, the same neighborhood as Philip Roth. Now that neighborhood is all black. Is that ethnic cleaning, or just a natural shift in local demographics?

Jim Bocho
Jim Bocho
9 months ago
Reply to  Abe Stamm

This is a false equivalence. Eastern European Jewish migrants to the US had no intention of taking a part of the territory of the US, a country founded by Englishmen, and declaring it an independent Jewish homeland.
This is exactly what they did in Palestine.

Abe Stamm
Abe Stamm
9 months ago
Reply to  Jim Bocho

Read a book. Jews from outside of the Middle East were immigrating to Israel starting in the late 1700’s, then increasing in the1800’s, during the time when the Ottoman Empire controlled the region, continuing to the time when Great Britain oversaw Mandatory Palestine (which has nothing to do with the people who now call themselves Palestinians). These Jews came to this precursor of Israel with money to buy land from Arab owners. They bought land from the indigenous Arabs…straight real estate transactions. Of the land that the Jews bought, 52.6% were bought from non-Arab landowners, 24.6% from Arab landowners, 13.4% from the controlling government, churches, and foreign companies, and only 9.4% from fellaheen (farmers).

Jim Bocho
Jim Bocho
9 months ago
Reply to  Abe Stamm

None of this contradicts my position or supports yours. I don’t know why you bothered writing it.

Abe Stamm
Abe Stamm
9 months ago
Reply to  Jim Bocho

I think the Native Americans of North and South America, whose lands the English, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Danish, Swedish, Dutch, and Russia claimed as their own, would argue with you about who owned what property and when.
Israel was “founded” on lands control by the British, which was earlier control by the Ottoman Empire, which at one time was controlled by the Roman Empire. The Arabs in question, who only started called themselves Palestinians in the 1960’s, were displaced Egyptians, Syrians, Lebanese, and Jordanians…caught in limbo after those countries lost Gaza, the Sinai, the Golan Heights, and the West Bank in war. And, in war, with the apparent exception of Israel, to the victors go the spoils.

Paul Beardsell
Paul Beardsell
9 months ago
Reply to  Abe Stamm

Where are all these bills of sale? The 700,000 Palestinians were evicted point of a gun, blade of a bulldozer from their own land. I do not condone recent happenings but the demonisation of Palestinians as being mad and bad for absolutely no reason is ridiculous. Here in comments to this article is denied the history taught as fact even in Israeli universities.

Abe Stamm
Abe Stamm
9 months ago
Reply to  Paul Beardsell

Read a book. After WWII, and the establishment of the Jewish homeland of Israel, over 700,000 JEWS were expelled from: Egypt, Algeria, Morocco, Iraq, Iran, Lebanon, Yemen, Syria, and Jordan.
The Arabs, not Palestinians, who fled Israel, not at gun point, did so at the behest of Egypt, Lebanon, Syria and Jordan, who explained that they should leave for their own safety while their armies destroyed Israel. There armies lost…so, refugees camps were established in these countries, and after all these decades, the “Palestinians” still have been offered citizenship. The Arabs that stayed (Muslims, Christians, Druze) now make up 25% of the Israeli population and electorate, with full rights of citizenship. If you don’t believe that…try taking the time to read about the political, social, economic, religious, ethnic demography of present day Israel. It’s all available in black & white…or you can visit the country in person.
As for “bills of sale”, my title and bill of sales are registered with my county clerk…I’m certain that the same is true in Israel. Land ownership registration is universal in democracies.

Paul Beardsell
Paul Beardsell
8 months ago
Reply to  Abe Stamm

You seem to have only read Leon Uris who was employed as a propagandist by the nascent Israeli state. To deny the name “Palestinians” to those who were expelled from Palestine is a nonsense. People are what they call themselves. Palestine is the name most commonly used for the area since Roman times. It’s like saying denying those from France to be French by calling them Europeans. Yes, Palestinians are Arabs but they are also the people from Palestine, they are Palestinian. Yes, some did advise Palestinians to flee, but mostly they did flee because of the advice, they fled the violence of the Israelis. This is well documented and is what is taught even in Israeli in universities, albeit sotto voce.
Who now “owns” the land, according to some doubtless meticulous land registry, does not obscure the fact that land was once lived on by Palestinians, and they were not paid for it.
Yes, some 20% or a bit more of those living in Israel are not Jews. I note that in South Africa not all Blacks were condemned to live in the Homelands, a similar proportion were Section 10 blacks, permitted to live in White SA. But nobody denies Apartheid by quoting this fact. Whether you like the SA comparison or not, 700,000 Palestinians were forced of their own land barrel of a gun, blade of a bulldozer.
Read something which is not just confirmation bias.

Paul Beardsell
Paul Beardsell
8 months ago
Reply to  Abe Stamm

I’m having a second go at a response to this. The often voluntary movement of Jews from Muslim countries to Israel happened AFTER the expulsion of the Palestinians. The expulsion of the Palestinians was not in retaliation to any movement of Jews. The LATER event can not cause the EARLIER. Yet you here justify the EARLIER expulsion of the Palestinians from Israel by the LATER movement of Jews from Muslim countries. That’s just dishonest argument.

Andrew F
Andrew F
9 months ago
Reply to  Jim Bocho

Even by your twisted logic, Jews were trying “reconquista” of lands which was stolen from them by Muslim/Arab invaders.
No different from reconquista of Christian lands in Spain from Muslim invaders.
The West stupidly allowed 5th column of Muslims to invade Europe again.
Time to cleanse the land again.

Jim Bocho
Jim Bocho
9 months ago
Reply to  Andrew F

The Jews were expelled from Palestine by the Romans in 70 AD, several centuries before Islam.
The Muslims who were expelled from Spain were ethnic Spaniards. Only the ruling elite of Spain were of Arab-Berber descent and after centuries of intermarriage even they were almost entirely of Spanish blood.

Charles Stanhope
Charles Stanhope
9 months ago
Reply to  Jim Bocho

Sorry, but the “Jews were NOT expelled from Palestine* by the Romans in 70AD”.
In fact their somewhat chaotic rebellion of AD 66-70 was crushed and Jerusalem plus the Temple were thoroughly sacked.

Move on 60 or more years and there were still plenty of Jews around for the next unsuccessful rebellion, that known as ‘Bar Kochba’.

(*Then the Roman Prefectorial Province of Judea.)

Last edited 9 months ago by Charles Stanhope
Jim Bocho
Jim Bocho
9 months ago

Even Jewish sources I can find claim mass expulsion of Jews from Palestine by the Romans in 70 AD. There must have been some Jews left there if there were further revolts, but the point here is that by the time of the Arab conquest Palestine was no longer a Jewish country.

Last edited 9 months ago by Jim Bocho
Paul Beardsell
Paul Beardsell
9 months ago
Reply to  Bill Bailey

The dog is chained up in the corner of the yard not because it was angry or vicious but because others wanted the yard. The dog chained up in the corner of the yard has become angry and vicious. When one understands the behaviour of the dog in that light one is not supporting the behaviour of the dog.

starkbreath
starkbreath
9 months ago
Reply to  Paul Beardsell

You’re so in love with your narrative of the oppressed Palestinians rising up that you’re willfully blind to the bigger picture. Liberals just love their black and white myths, which give them the sense of righteousness that they so desperately crave.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
9 months ago
Reply to  starkbreath

Rubbish, the black versus white, good versus bad thinking is rampant with the MAGA crowd.

starkbreath
starkbreath
9 months ago
Reply to  Clare Knight

Far left liberals would have been a better term for me to use. I don’t deny that Trump supporters have their own deluded mythology but I’ve always despised ivory tower elitists making excuses for violent predators while saying nothing about the people that they victimize. And it’s become even more odious with today’s social justice warriors advocating rioting, reverse racism, segregation, government censorship, and the genital mutilation of children among other odious policies.

Last edited 9 months ago by starkbreath
Alan Girling
Alan Girling
9 months ago
Reply to  Paul Beardsell

Yeah, you’re wrong, because you’re using simplistic woke ahistorical pop psychology to describe a situation going back long before any accusation of ‘oppression’ made any sense. From the very start, it’s been a matter of Israel making concessions and offers of peace and showing restraint in the face of an entity that has always explicitly wanted Israel’s total destruction, and to that end has propagandized its people with virulent anti-Semitic venom the Nazis would be proud of. Comparisons of this invasion with the actions of the Nazi Eisantzgruppen death squads have been made and they are apt.

Paul Beardsell
Paul Beardsell
9 months ago
Reply to  Alan Girling

The recent happenings are not supported by me. But understanding the real history is important. 700,000 Palestinians were evicted point of a gun, blade of a bulldozer. The idea that those who left centuries ago were entitled to the land is a nonsense. It would be like restoring France to the Huguenots today. According to the Jewish Encyclopedia 1905 there were then 25,000 Jews in Palestine. In 1948 6% of what is Israel today was owned by Jews and their proxies. Where is the bill of sale?
Your narrative is what has allowed the Palestinians to be cooped up in Gaza. Whatever you think of them now, they were not mad and bad when chained up.

Mike Cook
Mike Cook
9 months ago
Reply to  Paul Beardsell

Well, I suppose that you and your ilk have to say that you do not support the recent atrocities (you call them happenings), your narrative suggests otherwise. There are plenty “bills of sale” & who were the “proxies”? The lies about bulldozers & point of a gun and only promoted by leftists and those with a hatred of Jews. What is nonsense is that the “Palestinians” who were only invented in 1964 have a right to ALL the land.

Paul Beardsell
Paul Beardsell
8 months ago
Reply to  Mike Cook

1964? That’s a nonsense date. Palestine as an area has had that name since Roman times. Germans are Germans and Italians are Italians despite neither name existing so firmly in history as does Palestine, and neither Germany nor Italy existed as a nation until the 1870s. Palestinians were those living in Palestine. Palestinians do not claim ALL the land, you must be referring to the Israelis, they claim only that land they occupied for centuries before being evicted.