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FRJolie: Christophe Licoppe/Photonews via Getty
In January 2018, Nato secretary-general Jens Stoltenberg held an unprecedented press conference with Angelina Jolie. While InStyle reported that Jolie “was dressed in a black off-the-shoulder sheath dress, a matching capelet and classic pumps (also black)”, there was a deeper purpose to this meeting: sexual violence in war. The pair had just co-authored a piece for the Guardian entitled “Why NATO must defend women’s rights”. The timing was significant. At the height of the #MeToo movement, the most powerful military alliance in the world had become a feminist ally. “Ending gender-based violence is a vital issue of peace and security as well as of social justice,” they wrote. “NATO can be a leader in this effort.”
This was a new and progressive face for Nato, the same one it has since used to seduce much of the European Left. Previously, in the Nordic countries, Atlanticists have had to sell war and militarism to largely pacifist publics. This was achieved in part by presenting Nato not as a rapacious, pro-war military alliance, but as an enlightened, “progressive” peace alliance. As Timothy Garton Ash effused in the Guardian in 2002, “NATO has become a European peace movement” where one could watch “John Lennon meet George Bush”. Today, by contrast, following Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine, Sweden and Finland abandoned their long-standing traditions of neutrality and opted for membership. Nato is portrayed as a military alliance — and Ukraine a war — that even former pacifists can get behind. All its proponents seem to be singing is “Give War a Chance”.
The Jolie campaign marked a dramatic turn in what Katharine A.M. Wright and Annika Bergman Rosamond call “Nato’s strategic narrative” in several ways. First, the alliance embraced celebrity star power for the first time, imbuing its unremarkable brand with elite glamour and beauty. Jolie’s star power meant that the alluring images of the event reached apolitical audiences with little knowledge of Nato. Second, the partnership seemed to usher in an era in which women’s rights, gendered violence and feminism would assume a more prominent role in Nato rhetoric. Since then, and especially in the past 12 months, telegenic female leaders such as the Finnish Prime Minister, Sanna Marin, German Foreign Minister, Annalena Baerbock, and Estonian Prime Minister, Kaja Kallas, have increasingly served as the spokespersons of enlightened militarism in Europe. The alliance has also intensified its engagement with popular culture, new technologies, and youth influencers.
Of course, Nato has always been PR-conscious, and has long engaged culture, entertainment, and the arts. Who could forget the 1999 album Distant Early Warning from electronic duo Icebreaker International, recorded with funding from the defunct “NATOarts” and inspired by the radar stations along Alaska and Canada’s northern periphery built to alert Nato of an incoming Soviet nuclear strike? Or the 2007 feature film HQ, produced by Nato’s public diplomacy division, which depicts life inside the alliance and a mock diplomatic response to a crisis in the fictional state of Seismania? Just about everyone it turns out. But what makes Nato’s more recent strategic turn so effective is that it has successfully echoed candidate countries’ progressive local traditions and identities.
No political party in Europe better exemplifies the shift from militant pacifism to ardent pro-war Atlanticism than the German Greens. Most of the original Greens had been radicals during the student protests of 1968; many had demonstrated against American wars. The early Greens advocated for West Germany’s withdrawal from Nato. But as the founding members entered middle age, fissures began to appear in the party that would one day tear it apart. Two camps began to coalesce: the “Realos” were the moderate Greens, politically pragmatists. The “Fundis” were the radical, uncompromising camp; they wanted the party to remain faithful to its fundamental values no matter what.
Predictably, the Fundis believed that European peace would be best served by West Germany’s withdrawal from the alliance and tended to favour military neutrality. Meanwhile, the Realos believed that West Germany needed Nato. They even argued that withdrawal would return matters of security to the German nation-state and risk rekindling militaristic nationalism. Their Nato was a post-national, cosmopolitan alliance, speaking numerous languages and flying a multitude of flags, protecting Europe from Germany’s most destructive impulses. But Nato membership at the end of history was one thing. Germany going to war again — the most forbidden of taboos after World War II — was something else entirely.
Kosovo changed everything. In 1999 — the 50th anniversary of Nato’s founding — the alliance began what academic Merje Kuus has called a “discursive metamorphosis”. From the mere defensive alliance it was during the Cold War, it was becoming an active military compact concerned with spreading and defending values such as human rights, democracy, peace, and freedom well beyond the borders of its member states. The 78-day Nato bombing of what remained of Yugoslavia, ostensibly to halt war crimes committed by Serbian security forces in Kosovo, would forever transform the German Greens.
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SubscribeI’m not sure why all the yawn type comments. I thought this was an interesting article, highlighting how yet another supranational body consciously leverages woke ideology to put itself above democratic scrutiny.
If there is a concern about the WHO, WEF etc., positioning themselves to suck power from national governments, we should certainly be concerned about the very apotheosis of the military industrial complex doing so.
I don’t subscribe to the argument that Putin was justified in starting the war because of NATO overreach, but there does seem to have been some level of bad faith in the various agreements with Russia over Ukraine.
This certainly isn’t an organisation that can just be trusted to do the right thing. If it is actively neutering political opposition, we should be concerned.
You’re right. You don’t have to be a Putin fanboy to understand that this terrible war could have been avoided had we had more intelligent leadership in Washington and London.
Undoubtedly true. Also more intelligent leadership within Russia in and since 1992, and within Ukraine. Unfortunately NATO and the EU decided to fish around for advantage in a very unstable and divided nation run by gangster oligarchs. All this is for the history books though: right now there is a war to win.
Can the war be Won?
Can any war be won (i.e. produce a lasting solution)?
World War 2 turned out OK, don’t you think? Albeit at a terrible price
Poland lost a third of its territory and was Communist ruled for 45 years. East Prussia was wiped out, along with most of its citizens. Millions of refuugees from the Red Army died on their journey to the Wesr. Dreadul intifadas were carried out by eg Yugoslavia, despite the fact that the Communist Party favoured peace in Europe until Germany invaded the SU. The demographic and physical destruction was extraordinary. Oh yes, a couple of atom bombs ended the war.
“War is the father of all things”.*
(* Heraclitus c 500BC.)
And that was worse than Europe being divided between Soviet Russia and Nazi Germany? Japan as overlord of most of the Far East?
The price of victory was terrible, but it was a sight better than the alternative.
“War is the father of all things”.*
(* Heraclitus c 500BC.)
And that was worse than Europe being divided between Soviet Russia and Nazi Germany? Japan as overlord of most of the Far East?
The price of victory was terrible, but it was a sight better than the alternative.
WWII was seeded at the end of WWI… Don’t you think?
Entirely so, yes. And we learnt from that.
Entirely so, yes. And we learnt from that.
Poland lost a third of its territory and was Communist ruled for 45 years. East Prussia was wiped out, along with most of its citizens. Millions of refuugees from the Red Army died on their journey to the Wesr. Dreadul intifadas were carried out by eg Yugoslavia, despite the fact that the Communist Party favoured peace in Europe until Germany invaded the SU. The demographic and physical destruction was extraordinary. Oh yes, a couple of atom bombs ended the war.
WWII was seeded at the end of WWI… Don’t you think?
World War 2 turned out OK, don’t you think? Albeit at a terrible price
No, no, no. The most important and vital aspect of all this is the gender based violence against women! We all need to drive to the front and hold up signs so the Russian soldiers learn to become gentleman when they confront a helpless young enemy woman.
Haha, right? And you should see the American “left” right now. These are the people least fit on this planet for military service. Of course they expect the working class to fight for them, all those people in their hated Trump country. It’s an appalling state of affairs.
Maybe Angelina Jolie will volunteer to do the driving….at least if she’s behind the wheel of a truck she won’t be able to make any more movies
Not a lot of enemy women on either side.
Though I am sure there certainly will be a lot of strong, independent women when they make the movies on the war.
Haha, right? And you should see the American “left” right now. These are the people least fit on this planet for military service. Of course they expect the working class to fight for them, all those people in their hated Trump country. It’s an appalling state of affairs.
Maybe Angelina Jolie will volunteer to do the driving….at least if she’s behind the wheel of a truck she won’t be able to make any more movies
Not a lot of enemy women on either side.
Though I am sure there certainly will be a lot of strong, independent women when they make the movies on the war.
NATO was very reticent about taking on new members in central Europe – the commitment to defend them was and is an onerous one. It was those nations who had only recently escaped from Soviet occupation that made all the running and you can understand why.
It wasn’t a NATO PR campaign that persuaded Sweden and Finland to ditch decades of neutrality, it was quite simply fear of Russia. Putin has only himself to blame.
Sweden, Finland, the Baltic States and Poland were and are not in the same position as the former SSR’s.
The Baltic States ARE former SSRs!
The Baltic States ARE former SSRs!
“NATO was very reticent about taking on new members in central Europe”
NATO was as reticent about taking on new members on Europe as the US block was about invading countries in the middle East
Sweden and Finland were neutral when it was the Soviet Union. It isn’t “fear of Russia”, it’s replacement of hard nosed, practical leaders by virtue signalling morons who thought they look amazing by pretending to be standing up to Putin.
They had pretty little risk from Russia as the topography there is very unsuitable for an offensive in either direction, and they were de facto NATO members anyway.
All they achieved was to add a few pins on the Russian nuclear missile target map.
Sweden, Finland, the Baltic States and Poland were and are not in the same position as the former SSR’s.
“NATO was very reticent about taking on new members in central Europe”
NATO was as reticent about taking on new members on Europe as the US block was about invading countries in the middle East
Sweden and Finland were neutral when it was the Soviet Union. It isn’t “fear of Russia”, it’s replacement of hard nosed, practical leaders by virtue signalling morons who thought they look amazing by pretending to be standing up to Putin.
They had pretty little risk from Russia as the topography there is very unsuitable for an offensive in either direction, and they were de facto NATO members anyway.
All they achieved was to add a few pins on the Russian nuclear missile target map.
By whom? Don’t you want peace? Your rhetoric implies not.
Can the war be Won?
Can any war be won (i.e. produce a lasting solution)?
No, no, no. The most important and vital aspect of all this is the gender based violence against women! We all need to drive to the front and hold up signs so the Russian soldiers learn to become gentleman when they confront a helpless young enemy woman.
NATO was very reticent about taking on new members in central Europe – the commitment to defend them was and is an onerous one. It was those nations who had only recently escaped from Soviet occupation that made all the running and you can understand why.
It wasn’t a NATO PR campaign that persuaded Sweden and Finland to ditch decades of neutrality, it was quite simply fear of Russia. Putin has only himself to blame.
By whom? Don’t you want peace? Your rhetoric implies not.
Apart from vague and unsubstantiated insults about how unintelligent London and washington are, do you have any actual practical suggestions? What ought London and Washington to have done? Be specific, please.
Interesting and disappointing to me how this comment, which seems to be a legitimate question asked of a previous comment, gets downvotes, at least at the time of writing. Yet a throwaway verbal meme that contributes nothing to the debate, typical of much of Twitter land, posted by Jeff a little earlier, gets upvotes.
Recognize Russians sphere of influence up to the Durand Line and negotiate a mutual defense pact with Moscow.
Sounds an intelligent comment… Agreeing a sphere of influence for Russia instead of hostile NATO countries threatening her Western flank.
Sounds an intelligent comment… Agreeing a sphere of influence for Russia instead of hostile NATO countries threatening her Western flank.
Interesting and disappointing to me how this comment, which seems to be a legitimate question asked of a previous comment, gets downvotes, at least at the time of writing. Yet a throwaway verbal meme that contributes nothing to the debate, typical of much of Twitter land, posted by Jeff a little earlier, gets upvotes.
Recognize Russians sphere of influence up to the Durand Line and negotiate a mutual defense pact with Moscow.
Really?
Please tell us how.
Maybe go back to the Gorbachev period and and observe the commitment not to expand NATO’s sphere of influence?
Maybe go back to the Gorbachev period and and observe the commitment not to expand NATO’s sphere of influence?
Undoubtedly true. Also more intelligent leadership within Russia in and since 1992, and within Ukraine. Unfortunately NATO and the EU decided to fish around for advantage in a very unstable and divided nation run by gangster oligarchs. All this is for the history books though: right now there is a war to win.
Apart from vague and unsubstantiated insults about how unintelligent London and washington are, do you have any actual practical suggestions? What ought London and Washington to have done? Be specific, please.
Really?
Please tell us how.
American Foreign Policy is run by aggressive idiots with a knack for making others pay for their errors. Knowing that Europeans must find a way to remove Washington’s ball and chain.
I’ll add that Putin did not ‘start’ this war. The US abs NATO did, via their proxy regime in Kiev shelling the Donbass for 8 years and persecuting ethnic Russians. I can explain the yawns, some people have closed minds and have been propagandised into thinking NATO are the good guys.
As you have an open mind, think on the fact that Russia tried everything to avoid thud war via the Minsk Accords. The West and Ukraine now admit they were a sham to build up weapons and buy time. Putins mistake was to trust them. He should have put an end to it earlier, and likely now regrets not doing so. Its on record, NATO promises Russia it wouldn’t expand an inch east after the fall of the USSR. Now it has crossed the red line of trying to draw in Georgia and Ukraine, leaving Russia no security guarantees. I know with the censorship and media blackout not many people are informed, but the truth is out there for those who seek it.
You’re right. You don’t have to be a Putin fanboy to understand that this terrible war could have been avoided had we had more intelligent leadership in Washington and London.
American Foreign Policy is run by aggressive idiots with a knack for making others pay for their errors. Knowing that Europeans must find a way to remove Washington’s ball and chain.
I’ll add that Putin did not ‘start’ this war. The US abs NATO did, via their proxy regime in Kiev shelling the Donbass for 8 years and persecuting ethnic Russians. I can explain the yawns, some people have closed minds and have been propagandised into thinking NATO are the good guys.
As you have an open mind, think on the fact that Russia tried everything to avoid thud war via the Minsk Accords. The West and Ukraine now admit they were a sham to build up weapons and buy time. Putins mistake was to trust them. He should have put an end to it earlier, and likely now regrets not doing so. Its on record, NATO promises Russia it wouldn’t expand an inch east after the fall of the USSR. Now it has crossed the red line of trying to draw in Georgia and Ukraine, leaving Russia no security guarantees. I know with the censorship and media blackout not many people are informed, but the truth is out there for those who seek it.
I’m not sure why all the yawn type comments. I thought this was an interesting article, highlighting how yet another supranational body consciously leverages woke ideology to put itself above democratic scrutiny.
If there is a concern about the WHO, WEF etc., positioning themselves to suck power from national governments, we should certainly be concerned about the very apotheosis of the military industrial complex doing so.
I don’t subscribe to the argument that Putin was justified in starting the war because of NATO overreach, but there does seem to have been some level of bad faith in the various agreements with Russia over Ukraine.
This certainly isn’t an organisation that can just be trusted to do the right thing. If it is actively neutering political opposition, we should be concerned.
The Left has been seduced all over the globe and the leadership have failed utterly. They don’t oppose Right-wing militarism anywhere in the West and now cheerlead the US hegemonic war in Ukraine.
I don’t recognise any of the German Greens as people that I would vote for and yet that is my political leaning. They don’t represent anything Green at all, on the contrary they seem to be salivating about the destruction of vast swathes of the planet and humanity as they bow down to the god of war. They are not interested in peace, just the obliteration of their opponents.
The label is at odds with the contents and progressives and the Left have been hugely conned.
They have all gone mad and appear to crave their own annihilation as the US wipes it’s arse with them.
Same, Chris. As I mentioned in a post– I work in perhaps the “wokest” of woke workplaces possible, in the American education sector.
These people are also all in on Ukraine–they have Ukraine flags at their desks, think Biden is Godlike for his handling of the conflict, and evince so much constant non-analytical thought that I swear I work with middle-schoolers a great deal of the time. It is very painful for me, as someone who was chewed up and spit out by the “left” because I am anti-war and anti-Covid hysteria and pro civil liberties–all things that I thought the left once supported. Indeed, in the late 1980s all these things were why I joined the left as a skater kid in my teens.
I’m left politically homeless and despairing much of the time these days.
Whilst I can understand those consciencous objectors doesn’t anti war mean you are open to being overun and oppressed by an evil military power? Sometimes you have to defend your country through war.
My country? What does NATO and the war in Ukraine have anything to do with my country (the U.S.) aside from a deep well of money and money laundering for the “defense” industry here?
We live in a total dystopia right now in the U.S. and we are expected to die for Europe, still, and it is nonsense and time for a reckoning.
It does because of Budapest Memorandum. It also does because the US has long positioned itself as the “leader of the free world”. You just don’t get to get away from that just like that after f*****g up things everywhere. Here, for once, the US is doing the right thing. The cartoonish thinking of black and white amongst adults baffles me to no end. Neither the US or Russia is always good or bad.
You talk of the U.S. as if “we” are one, bland hegemonic person, which is itself cartoonish and reductionist on its face.
Look, like I said before, the left in America is, since the 1960s, was where the anti-war movement resided. We protested, petitioned, went to the streets about Iraq, and were a force to be reckoned with politically, especially as related to the Vietnam War and the Iraq War. We could see the scandal of imperialism and how it was done on the backs of the working class and how badly it marred our relations with the world.
Indeed, Trump literally arose partially because of the Iraq War.
To imagine that, in the U.S. now, which feels like a failed state in many regions, that our elite overlords feel it necessary to again get us into another forever war, and that the “left” are now the water-carriers for this, is sickening to me and feels like the final stand and the death spiral of an empire that was never meant to be.
None of this will end well and we are not “doing the right thing.”
I respect your position as long as you don’t start talking about “US engineered coup”, “Ukrainian neonazis”, “8 years bombing Donbass”, all of which is a load of bull and makes me doubt anything I heard of the likes of Chomsky, Pilger, Hersh.. Cause if they can confidently spout such nonsense about country I know inside out and have followed and at times participated the unfolding events, then I don’t think I can trust any of those narratives as they are being put forward.
Here though I talk of the US governments that you have elected. And yes, it’s great that there’s incredible variety in the US and that you have voice and can develop in different directions. And it’s not like the protests failed entirely — they did affect the decision making to an extent and they did inform future policies. You cannot know what would have been if you didn’t go out and make yourselves heard.
Not so much in Russia, which is quickly turning into grotesque version of the USSR with capitalist oligarchy at its centre. Which is also why Ukraine and other countries bordering don’t want anything to do with it. Everyone likes their freedoms and there’s noone else to turn to but the West for the countries who are too small on their own to stand up to Russia’s imperialistic ambitions. I am from Latvia myself and I have always been sceptical about NATO (always been pro EU tho) and I have also been angry about arrogant attitudes towards Russia — despite it having occupied my country in the past, I don’t dwell on it and was looking forward. Now, I have had a pause in the 2014 but still didn’t believe in all out war, despite Ukrainians telling me it’s inevitable. I am now happy Latvia joined when we did and I’m sad and furious about Ukraine I have deep ties with, part of my family being there. I am certain only a diplomatic resolution will end the war, but for it to work, Russia needs to get a beating so good, that the terms of this agreement will be workable and that it takes decades for it to recover which will be decades of peace, I hope. To you, the occupied territories are abstract lines on maps and fighting over them is “warmongering”. To Ukraine it is their lands, that their history and memories are linked with; their people who either want to go back there or are waiting for the Ukrainians to liberate; their cultural heritage with art organisations, museums and libraries, which are being looted and destroyed. I know personally people who have been displaced and lost everything twice — first, when they had to escape Donetsk and ended up in Mariupol and now again as the Mariupol was not only occupied but razed from the face of Earth.
So yeah, you have all the rights to be against war. But defending oneself when the other option is worse, is not warmongering.
I respect your position as long as you don’t start talking about “US engineered coup”, “Ukrainian neonazis”, “8 years bombing Donbass”, all of which is a load of bull and makes me doubt anything I heard of the likes of Chomsky, Pilger, Hersh.. Cause if they can confidently spout such nonsense about country I know inside out and have followed and at times participated the unfolding events, then I don’t think I can trust any of those narratives as they are being put forward.
Here though I talk of the US governments that you have elected. And yes, it’s great that there’s incredible variety in the US and that you have voice and can develop in different directions. And it’s not like the protests failed entirely — they did affect the decision making to an extent and they did inform future policies. You cannot know what would have been if you didn’t go out and make yourselves heard.
Not so much in Russia, which is quickly turning into grotesque version of the USSR with capitalist oligarchy at its centre. Which is also why Ukraine and other countries bordering don’t want anything to do with it. Everyone likes their freedoms and there’s noone else to turn to but the West for the countries who are too small on their own to stand up to Russia’s imperialistic ambitions. I am from Latvia myself and I have always been sceptical about NATO (always been pro EU tho) and I have also been angry about arrogant attitudes towards Russia — despite it having occupied my country in the past, I don’t dwell on it and was looking forward. Now, I have had a pause in the 2014 but still didn’t believe in all out war, despite Ukrainians telling me it’s inevitable. I am now happy Latvia joined when we did and I’m sad and furious about Ukraine I have deep ties with, part of my family being there. I am certain only a diplomatic resolution will end the war, but for it to work, Russia needs to get a beating so good, that the terms of this agreement will be workable and that it takes decades for it to recover which will be decades of peace, I hope. To you, the occupied territories are abstract lines on maps and fighting over them is “warmongering”. To Ukraine it is their lands, that their history and memories are linked with; their people who either want to go back there or are waiting for the Ukrainians to liberate; their cultural heritage with art organisations, museums and libraries, which are being looted and destroyed. I know personally people who have been displaced and lost everything twice — first, when they had to escape Donetsk and ended up in Mariupol and now again as the Mariupol was not only occupied but razed from the face of Earth.
So yeah, you have all the rights to be against war. But defending oneself when the other option is worse, is not warmongering.
You talk of the U.S. as if “we” are one, bland hegemonic person, which is itself cartoonish and reductionist on its face.
Look, like I said before, the left in America is, since the 1960s, was where the anti-war movement resided. We protested, petitioned, went to the streets about Iraq, and were a force to be reckoned with politically, especially as related to the Vietnam War and the Iraq War. We could see the scandal of imperialism and how it was done on the backs of the working class and how badly it marred our relations with the world.
Indeed, Trump literally arose partially because of the Iraq War.
To imagine that, in the U.S. now, which feels like a failed state in many regions, that our elite overlords feel it necessary to again get us into another forever war, and that the “left” are now the water-carriers for this, is sickening to me and feels like the final stand and the death spiral of an empire that was never meant to be.
None of this will end well and we are not “doing the right thing.”
It does because of Budapest Memorandum. It also does because the US has long positioned itself as the “leader of the free world”. You just don’t get to get away from that just like that after f*****g up things everywhere. Here, for once, the US is doing the right thing. The cartoonish thinking of black and white amongst adults baffles me to no end. Neither the US or Russia is always good or bad.
My country? What does NATO and the war in Ukraine have anything to do with my country (the U.S.) aside from a deep well of money and money laundering for the “defense” industry here?
We live in a total dystopia right now in the U.S. and we are expected to die for Europe, still, and it is nonsense and time for a reckoning.
I am an ageing anti-war (but not pacifist) ex-hippy who has found my way to conservatism. I suspect there are many of us.
Whilst I can understand those consciencous objectors doesn’t anti war mean you are open to being overun and oppressed by an evil military power? Sometimes you have to defend your country through war.
I am an ageing anti-war (but not pacifist) ex-hippy who has found my way to conservatism. I suspect there are many of us.
The main thing is surely the defence of Europe from the Russians. If Ukraine as a former Soviet Union prisoner goes who will be next? Poland, Romania, Hungary?
This is ahistorical and nonsense. This has been a border war all along, for over a decade.
This is ahistorical and nonsense. This has been a border war all along, for over a decade.
Same, Chris. As I mentioned in a post– I work in perhaps the “wokest” of woke workplaces possible, in the American education sector.
These people are also all in on Ukraine–they have Ukraine flags at their desks, think Biden is Godlike for his handling of the conflict, and evince so much constant non-analytical thought that I swear I work with middle-schoolers a great deal of the time. It is very painful for me, as someone who was chewed up and spit out by the “left” because I am anti-war and anti-Covid hysteria and pro civil liberties–all things that I thought the left once supported. Indeed, in the late 1980s all these things were why I joined the left as a skater kid in my teens.
I’m left politically homeless and despairing much of the time these days.
The main thing is surely the defence of Europe from the Russians. If Ukraine as a former Soviet Union prisoner goes who will be next? Poland, Romania, Hungary?
The Left has been seduced all over the globe and the leadership have failed utterly. They don’t oppose Right-wing militarism anywhere in the West and now cheerlead the US hegemonic war in Ukraine.
I don’t recognise any of the German Greens as people that I would vote for and yet that is my political leaning. They don’t represent anything Green at all, on the contrary they seem to be salivating about the destruction of vast swathes of the planet and humanity as they bow down to the god of war. They are not interested in peace, just the obliteration of their opponents.
The label is at odds with the contents and progressives and the Left have been hugely conned.
They have all gone mad and appear to crave their own annihilation as the US wipes it’s arse with them.
In summary, the Left are are the war-mongers now.
Liberal imperialism, Clinton and Blair onward
History shows that Communist states are always war mongers.
Is the ‘Communist state’ in the room with us right now?
No, but it’s certainly Putin that not only seduced the left, he even managed to seduce NATO member states and its flocking aspiring new members.
The Left hates Putin
That’s the seduction I mean, LOL. They didn’t hate Putin before Ukraine. Now only the staunchly pro-Palestinian left still cling to him as the hate for the US is stronger.
That’s the seduction I mean, LOL. They didn’t hate Putin before Ukraine. Now only the staunchly pro-Palestinian left still cling to him as the hate for the US is stronger.
The Left hates Putin
No, but it’s certainly Putin that not only seduced the left, he even managed to seduce NATO member states and its flocking aspiring new members.
Like the USA; the most powerful communist regime around today. Just because it is Western Communism doesn’t make it any less valid or revolutionary.
I can’t tell if this is just a dig or if this is genuine, but if you genuinely think that the USA is a ‘communist regime’ then not only do you know nothing about the US political and economic system, but you also have no idea what communism actually is.
I can’t tell if this is just a dig or if this is genuine, but if you genuinely think that the USA is a ‘communist regime’ then not only do you know nothing about the US political and economic system, but you also have no idea what communism actually is.
Is the ‘Communist state’ in the room with us right now?
Like the USA; the most powerful communist regime around today. Just because it is Western Communism doesn’t make it any less valid or revolutionary.
Liberal imperialism, Clinton and Blair onward
History shows that Communist states are always war mongers.
In summary, the Left are are the war-mongers now.
The article says that bombing Belgrade in 1999 “was the first German military operation undertaken in Europe since the Second World War.” That depends on how you define “military operation”. In 1968, the German Democratic Republic provided military logistics support for the invasion of Czechoslovakia by four of its Warsaw Pact allies.
Ehm, let me correct there, by the USSR.
Ehm, let me correct there, by the USSR.
The article says that bombing Belgrade in 1999 “was the first German military operation undertaken in Europe since the Second World War.” That depends on how you define “military operation”. In 1968, the German Democratic Republic provided military logistics support for the invasion of Czechoslovakia by four of its Warsaw Pact allies.
I work in perhaps the “wokest” of woke workplaces possible, in the American education sector.
These people are also all in on Ukraine–they have Ukraine flags at their desks, think Biden is Godlike for his handling of the conflict, and evince so much constant non-analytical thought that I swear I work with middle-schoolers a great deal of the time. It is very painful for me, as someone who was chewed up and spit out by the “left” because I am anti-war and anti-Covid hysteria and pro civil liberties–all things that I thought the left once supported. Indeed, in the late 1980s all these things were why I joined the left as a skater kid in my teens.
I’m left politically homeless and despairing much of the time these days.
You said that already.
Warmongerers have bad listening skills and a total lack of nuanced thinking so one has to repeat oneself over and over again to make a point.
These things need to be repeated time and again.
Warmongerers have bad listening skills and a total lack of nuanced thinking so one has to repeat oneself over and over again to make a point.
These things need to be repeated time and again.
Being anti-war means enabling the aggressor to wage war? Everyone is a high-horse pacifist until war comes to their own home.
You said that already.
Being anti-war means enabling the aggressor to wage war? Everyone is a high-horse pacifist until war comes to their own home.
I work in perhaps the “wokest” of woke workplaces possible, in the American education sector.
These people are also all in on Ukraine–they have Ukraine flags at their desks, think Biden is Godlike for his handling of the conflict, and evince so much constant non-analytical thought that I swear I work with middle-schoolers a great deal of the time. It is very painful for me, as someone who was chewed up and spit out by the “left” because I am anti-war and anti-Covid hysteria and pro civil liberties–all things that I thought the left once supported. Indeed, in the late 1980s all these things were why I joined the left as a skater kid in my teens.
I’m left politically homeless and despairing much of the time these days.
Or more to the point the European Left is no longer seduced by Moscow.
Or more to the point the European Left is no longer seduced by Moscow.
Very timely article. The decline of the old Left and its anti war slant has now been replaced by a new Woke Left aligned with corporatism and the Deep State.
Very timely article. The decline of the old Left and its anti war slant has now been replaced by a new Woke Left aligned with corporatism and the Deep State.
Lots of questions among the remnants of the anti war left in the US. This is more evidence that the pro war types such as US neocons like d**k Cheney have bought the support of social justice types by allowing them to run wild imposing their radical views in the social arena.
The man was feted at the Jan 6th commemoration. An appalling state of affairs. One opposed our “liberal interventionism” and is called a fascist or worse now in America. These were the same people who protested the Iraq War with me–now willing apparently to die on the Killing Fields of Ukraine for our failing empire and an Undead meat Puppet (Biden) who has laundered millions in Ukraine already.
The man was feted at the Jan 6th commemoration. An appalling state of affairs. One opposed our “liberal interventionism” and is called a fascist or worse now in America. These were the same people who protested the Iraq War with me–now willing apparently to die on the Killing Fields of Ukraine for our failing empire and an Undead meat Puppet (Biden) who has laundered millions in Ukraine already.
Lots of questions among the remnants of the anti war left in the US. This is more evidence that the pro war types such as US neocons like d**k Cheney have bought the support of social justice types by allowing them to run wild imposing their radical views in the social arena.
IDK.I couldn’t finish the essay. Just kinda meh. NATO leaders are nothing more than a reflection of our political and corporate leaders – woke, self interested, no vision. Say the right things to avoid serious scrutiny.
half way through I went off to watch some paint dry………
boring, boringer, Lily Lynch…
boring, boringer, Lily Lynch…
half way through I went off to watch some paint dry………
IDK.I couldn’t finish the essay. Just kinda meh. NATO leaders are nothing more than a reflection of our political and corporate leaders – woke, self interested, no vision. Say the right things to avoid serious scrutiny.
NATO is a superb Club, as long as the US continues to foot the bill.
It’s the US club so why shouldn’t they pay. Without it perhaps there could be peace and the Europeans just could try to live with their neighbours instead of trying to meddle and destroy their countries.
18 months ago I used to admire the Europeans, now I think that they are a bunch of craven idiots hell bent on destroying their own civilization.
There is never any peace because everyone backed by the US thinks that they can strong-arm a better deal, rather than settle and end the conflict.
Oh, it’s about way more than that in the good ol’ US of A. It’s about money laundering for the Biden family, it’s about sham contracts for the industries of death here, all on the backs of the American people where the middle class is in a death spiral and the cities look like 3rd World Countries with tents ringing what were once beautiful downtowns.
Oh, it’s about way more than that in the good ol’ US of A. It’s about money laundering for the Biden family, it’s about sham contracts for the industries of death here, all on the backs of the American people where the middle class is in a death spiral and the cities look like 3rd World Countries with tents ringing what were once beautiful downtowns.
It’s the US club so why shouldn’t they pay. Without it perhaps there could be peace and the Europeans just could try to live with their neighbours instead of trying to meddle and destroy their countries.
18 months ago I used to admire the Europeans, now I think that they are a bunch of craven idiots hell bent on destroying their own civilization.
There is never any peace because everyone backed by the US thinks that they can strong-arm a better deal, rather than settle and end the conflict.
NATO is a superb Club, as long as the US continues to foot the bill.
“Sweden was the first country to adopt such a policy in 2014, permitting it to project its longstanding state feminism abroad, …” Strange that they should do this while rape was increasing in frequency in Sweden.
Not strange. Unwilling to stand up for women at home, they can feel better by making a hollow show of doing so in other countries.
Swedish hypocrisy goes back to WW2 at least. Not that they are alone in this…
Malmo in Sweden became the rape capital of the world due to the encouragement of mass immigration from parts of the world where the raping of women was normal.
Not strange. Unwilling to stand up for women at home, they can feel better by making a hollow show of doing so in other countries.
Swedish hypocrisy goes back to WW2 at least. Not that they are alone in this…
Malmo in Sweden became the rape capital of the world due to the encouragement of mass immigration from parts of the world where the raping of women was normal.
“Sweden was the first country to adopt such a policy in 2014, permitting it to project its longstanding state feminism abroad, …” Strange that they should do this while rape was increasing in frequency in Sweden.
As that elder statesman of political theory, Mike Tyson, once remarked, “Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth.”
As that elder statesman of political theory, Mike Tyson, once remarked, “Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth.”
Turkey and Greece are a long way from the Atlantic but they were early members of NATO, so a country clearly has never needed to have its shores lapped by the Gulf Stream to belong to NATO. Poland, among many. other central European countries, has always looked west for inspiration and for protection from the overwhelming (potential) power of Russia, so their adherence to NATO as soon as it was feasible was really a foregone conclusion.
But the West might have treated Yeltsin’s Russia far better than it did – less rapaciously, less arrogantly – and then Putin’s Russia, which is almost Stalin’s, might never have emerged. The Russians are a wonderful people. They deserve better government than neo-imperialist kleptocrats. As the saying goes, Ban Putin, not Pushkin!
Turkey and Greece are a long way from the Atlantic but they were early members of NATO, so a country clearly has never needed to have its shores lapped by the Gulf Stream to belong to NATO. Poland, among many. other central European countries, has always looked west for inspiration and for protection from the overwhelming (potential) power of Russia, so their adherence to NATO as soon as it was feasible was really a foregone conclusion.
But the West might have treated Yeltsin’s Russia far better than it did – less rapaciously, less arrogantly – and then Putin’s Russia, which is almost Stalin’s, might never have emerged. The Russians are a wonderful people. They deserve better government than neo-imperialist kleptocrats. As the saying goes, Ban Putin, not Pushkin!
Well considering Petra Kelly was murdered by a paid Stasi agent and founder of “Generals for Peace”, she might indeed in retrospect have been less naive about radical pacifism, intended to leave the West vulnerable to attack.
Exactly. The USSR backed Ban the Bomb and disarmament in the UK and infiltrated the German Greens. They saw the Left as ‘useful idiots’, whilst building up their own armaments.
There is still denial by many of the Left who cannot believe how their idealism is betrayed. Petra’s murder by her partner on the eve of the release of papers proving him to be Stasi Agent was because he couldn’t bear for her to know, couldn’t face the revelation of his private and public betrayal. And still it is not well known. The denial persists. Pacifists will reluctantly and necessarily back NATO as a defensive force against a far greater military threat.
I didn’t know this story.
You seem to be saying that Petra Kelly was in a relationship with a man who had posed as her lover whilst, in fact spying on her on behalf of East Germany, that this man was so horrified by the thought of exposure that he he murdered her rather than face up to his own betrayal.
And then you seem to be saying that the problem here is the stupid naive idealism of Lefties who don’t realise just how monstrous the forces arrayed against them are and who should therefore abandon pacifism as unrealistic.
Is that whay you are saying? It seems like a weird conclusion to me.
Makes sense to me. The left is so naive in my book.
The article asks why the European Left is less hostile to NATO than it was in (for example) Petra Kelly’s time in the 1980s. The reason is that much of the “ban the bomb” campaigning of that time was bought and paid for by the Soviet bloc. Gert Bastian was
an example of that. So Eva Quistorp may well be right: if Petra Kelly knew what we now know about the anti-NATO movement, and the cynics and useful idiots behind it, she might well have been a supporter of German membership.
Yea, the left should recall who sponsored Bader Meinhof the Red Army Faction, etc.
Yea, the left should recall who sponsored Bader Meinhof the Red Army Faction, etc.
Makes sense to me. The left is so naive in my book.
The article asks why the European Left is less hostile to NATO than it was in (for example) Petra Kelly’s time in the 1980s. The reason is that much of the “ban the bomb” campaigning of that time was bought and paid for by the Soviet bloc. Gert Bastian was
an example of that. So Eva Quistorp may well be right: if Petra Kelly knew what we now know about the anti-NATO movement, and the cynics and useful idiots behind it, she might well have been a supporter of German membership.
The USSR collapsed in 1991.
Modern day Russia is nothing like the old Soviet Union.
It is very like the old Soviet Union.
It is still there in Putin as head of the KGB and he controls the whole country.
Let’s say it and Belarus and Kazakhstan are waaaay more like USSR than any of the other post-Soviet or Warsaw Pact countries. I was born in the USSR and I have been to most of the former republics as well as WP countries many times. For example, Russia and Ukraine of today are in many important ways nothing like each other.
It is very like the old Soviet Union.
It is still there in Putin as head of the KGB and he controls the whole country.
Let’s say it and Belarus and Kazakhstan are waaaay more like USSR than any of the other post-Soviet or Warsaw Pact countries. I was born in the USSR and I have been to most of the former republics as well as WP countries many times. For example, Russia and Ukraine of today are in many important ways nothing like each other.
And us Americans will foot the bill and perform most of the combat, all the while the decadent, corrupt European edifice continue to suck our dystopian society dry.
Quite so.
Are the Americans performing most of the combat in Ukraine?
Why is that even a question? What responsibility do we even have for the security of a backwards Eastern European country mired in corruption and a border war with its equally backward neighbor, when all the incredibly wealthy European states should have stepped up long ago?
Furthermore, once NATO’s bought and sold leaders trigger Article 5 for some obscure reason, American troops will be dying en masse over there, in another European Civil War because of, why exactly? Seems you are too depraved and selfish and dependent on American largesse to imagine what a peaceful world looks like.
The US imposes its empire (paid by the world via the petrodollar’s reserve status, not by US taxpayers) and the subjects within the vassal states – Germany, Italy, the UK, etc – are supposed to be grateful?
As for Article 5, other members can decide what degree they’ll assist the attacked member. the US will go boots-in because that way they wind up with another piece of the map – Camp Bondsteel in Kosovo, for example.
US troops have decided to volunteer for this “service” BTW.
The US imposes its empire (paid by the world via the petrodollar’s reserve status, not by US taxpayers) and the subjects within the vassal states – Germany, Italy, the UK, etc – are supposed to be grateful?
As for Article 5, other members can decide what degree they’ll assist the attacked member. the US will go boots-in because that way they wind up with another piece of the map – Camp Bondsteel in Kosovo, for example.
US troops have decided to volunteer for this “service” BTW.
Why is that even a question? What responsibility do we even have for the security of a backwards Eastern European country mired in corruption and a border war with its equally backward neighbor, when all the incredibly wealthy European states should have stepped up long ago?
Furthermore, once NATO’s bought and sold leaders trigger Article 5 for some obscure reason, American troops will be dying en masse over there, in another European Civil War because of, why exactly? Seems you are too depraved and selfish and dependent on American largesse to imagine what a peaceful world looks like.
Quite so.
Are the Americans performing most of the combat in Ukraine?
Can’t the west win through flower power?
I didn’t know this story.
You seem to be saying that Petra Kelly was in a relationship with a man who had posed as her lover whilst, in fact spying on her on behalf of East Germany, that this man was so horrified by the thought of exposure that he he murdered her rather than face up to his own betrayal.
And then you seem to be saying that the problem here is the stupid naive idealism of Lefties who don’t realise just how monstrous the forces arrayed against them are and who should therefore abandon pacifism as unrealistic.
Is that whay you are saying? It seems like a weird conclusion to me.
The USSR collapsed in 1991.
Modern day Russia is nothing like the old Soviet Union.
And us Americans will foot the bill and perform most of the combat, all the while the decadent, corrupt European edifice continue to suck our dystopian society dry.