Lindsay lives in a council house in Kirkwall, the largest town in Orkney, a starkly beautiful archipelago off the north coast of Scotland. Now in her mid-fifties, Lindsay has lived in her one-bedroom house for 17 years. She’s tended the garden, hung her pictures on the walls. But she has no great love for the place. It’s cold and damp. Very cold. Very damp. Cold enough that she can’t sleep. Damp enough that the clothes in her wardrobe turn green with mould. And it seems like nothing she does ever helps.
There are radiators. They work, and she puts them on. But the house doesn’t seem to get any warmer. This winter, she says, the temperature inside her house hovered between 10 and 12°C — well below the recommended domestic temperature range of 18 to 21°C. Every minute, as those heaters exude their vanishing warmth, the bills are ticking up, up, up. Currently, she says, it costs her between £10 and £15 a day to heat the little house — or to not heat it, which is what it really feels like she’s doing.
Lindsay suffers from chronic pain, one symptom of the fibromyalgia that impacts her ability to work, and the cold exacerbates her condition. Recently, she told me, it’s all become too much. She’s in crisis. Watching her money run out as she sleeps under a duvet that seems wet to the touch — it feels like more than anyone should have to cope with. She’s not sure that she can anymore.
When money is tight, all winters are bad winters. But at the turn of 2022-23, after energy costs soared, more Britons than ever have been facing hard choices and cold beds as they struggle to get by while wages stagnate and prices soar. From October 2021 to October 2022, domestic gas prices increased by 129% and electricity by 66%, according to data from the UK government; the average annual energy bill has increased almost 96% over the same period, to £2,500.
With some fanfare, Liz Truss’s short-lived regime offered a “guarantee” that the energy price cap would not rise any further for households for at least another two years. Rishi Sunak’s administration soon rowed back on that — although the Budget earlier this month did extend the energy price cap for three more months, until June. As for the new SNP leader Humza Yousaf, who is now staring at a £1.5 billion black hole in the national budget according to the Scottish Fiscal Commission, fuel poverty in Scotland’s coldest rural regions presents a significant financial challenge. All this uncertainty has left Lindsay, and those who have suffered similarly difficult winters, with little idea about what help they will or won’t be entitled to in the future.
Those living in rural Scotland are under singularly intense pressure. Because the price cap and associated guarantees apply to unit cost, not the total bill, bills will often end up more than £2,500 in households requiring higher consumption to maintain a decent temperature. And for any homes where the main energy source is anything other mains gas or electricity, nothing is capped or guaranteed. Nearly 90% of homes in Na h-Eileanan Siar (also known as the Outer Hebrides) and 100% of homes in Orkney and Shetland are not connected to the mains gas grid, forcing residents to use more expensive and uncapped options such as bottled gas or domestic heating oil.
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SubscribeWhilst I am sympathetic to the plight of the examples in this essay, there is no mention of any societal structures between the individuals themselves and the highest level of the State (Holyrood or Westminster).
Such a hollowed out Rousseau-esque situation is symptomatic of the ever-upwards consolidation of powers. Where are the churches, families, local organisations, community and voluntary associations, etc .? These elements of civic society have been progressively (pun intended) dismantled over recent decades (maybe longer), such that all the suffering people are dependent supplicants to an all-powerful, faceless, unaccountable and remote group of unreactive people.
This. Time we stopped kidding ourselves that we live in a democracy.
Parliamentary Democracy, the antithesis of Direct Democracy.*
(* As practiced by the land of William Tell.)
De Toqueville had a lot to answer for. A couple of weeks ago I got involved in a discussion about your point. My antagonist said that if we had proper democracy we would just decide one day to bomb Russia.
Two extreme positions. Either we have proper democracy and disaster or parliamentary democracy and disaster.
I think there must be a middle road. Like in Switzerland, as you say.
Great idea – let’s put every single governmental decision to a plebiscite. We could all be hooked up together via our smart phones voting several times a day – what could possibly go wrong?
Oddly the Swiss don’t quite do it like that, but perhaps you are unaware of that very simple fact?
Of course – but who decides what goes to a vote? And how many is that? I suspect very few so hardly direct democracy so much as representative democracy with a bit of plebisciting (great new word!) thrown in so that the plebs can think that they are in direct control.
How about anything that gets voted on in parliament? That might be a start, wouldn’t it?
How about anything that gets voted on in parliament? That might be a start, wouldn’t it?
Of course – but who decides what goes to a vote? And how many is that? I suspect very few so hardly direct democracy so much as representative democracy with a bit of plebisciting (great new word!) thrown in so that the plebs can think that they are in direct control.
Oddly the Swiss don’t quite do it like that, but perhaps you are unaware of that very simple fact?
Yes, and I’d like to see him shoot an apple off Michael Gove’s plug-ugly head with his crossbow… after drinking half-a pint of cherry brandy.
You mean get the Herr Gessler treatment?
You mean get the Herr Gessler treatment?
De Toqueville had a lot to answer for. A couple of weeks ago I got involved in a discussion about your point. My antagonist said that if we had proper democracy we would just decide one day to bomb Russia.
Two extreme positions. Either we have proper democracy and disaster or parliamentary democracy and disaster.
I think there must be a middle road. Like in Switzerland, as you say.
Great idea – let’s put every single governmental decision to a plebiscite. We could all be hooked up together via our smart phones voting several times a day – what could possibly go wrong?
Yes, and I’d like to see him shoot an apple off Michael Gove’s plug-ugly head with his crossbow… after drinking half-a pint of cherry brandy.
Parliamentary Democracy, the antithesis of Direct Democracy.*
(* As practiced by the land of William Tell.)
A big difference between rural and urban. Everything is easy if you live in town. Imagine the extra cost of sending letters to Orkney; or taking electricity to Orkney. Do we need a policy to depopulate all rural areas and build new high-rise flats in the towns?
St Kilda was abandoned in 1930 and it population shipped to the mainland.
Perhaps we should do the same with Orkney?
It wasn’t done by force, though. Unlike the British Indian Ocean Territory…
Good old RAF Gan?
Not the same place at all, Charles. Gan is in the Maldives, BIOT is otherwise known as the Chagos Archipelago, including Diego Garcia.
My mistake, nostalgia got the better of me!
My mistake, nostalgia got the better of me!
Not the same place at all, Charles. Gan is in the Maldives, BIOT is otherwise known as the Chagos Archipelago, including Diego Garcia.
Good old RAF Gan?
But how is it when I read an article like this everyone on Orkney (or other places) is poor and suffering but if I see Orkney on say Countryfile or something,all the population are Artists from London boroughs who live it there and seem prosperous enough and can sell stuff they knock up from pebbles and driftwood on the beach for a few K quid a time. Are there two parallel populations. There probably are. From my own experience of rural places,there are usually two “communities” in that idyllic looking place who barely intermingle at all.
Yes exactly, Cornwall probably being the classic example.
Yes exactly, Cornwall probably being the classic example.
And the Shetland Isles, the Outer Hebrides and the Inner Hebrides and then maybe do the Highland Clearances again and take everyone from the Highlands and dump them in the Central Belt or better take them to Englandshire…
Maybe if government wasn’t London… or Edinburgh… centric and those who govern the country knew something about the rest of the land under their care, Inc civil servants, we would be in a better place. Scotland is much colder and wetter than Englandshire in the winter. It is also darker. Maybe a better understanding of that would mean a fairer system when it comes to UC and other national benefits, and when it comes to caps on power prices.
It wasn’t done by force, though. Unlike the British Indian Ocean Territory…
But how is it when I read an article like this everyone on Orkney (or other places) is poor and suffering but if I see Orkney on say Countryfile or something,all the population are Artists from London boroughs who live it there and seem prosperous enough and can sell stuff they knock up from pebbles and driftwood on the beach for a few K quid a time. Are there two parallel populations. There probably are. From my own experience of rural places,there are usually two “communities” in that idyllic looking place who barely intermingle at all.
And the Shetland Isles, the Outer Hebrides and the Inner Hebrides and then maybe do the Highland Clearances again and take everyone from the Highlands and dump them in the Central Belt or better take them to Englandshire…
Maybe if government wasn’t London… or Edinburgh… centric and those who govern the country knew something about the rest of the land under their care, Inc civil servants, we would be in a better place. Scotland is much colder and wetter than Englandshire in the winter. It is also darker. Maybe a better understanding of that would mean a fairer system when it comes to UC and other national benefits, and when it comes to caps on power prices.
The real question should be: Do we ship pods to Orkney for them to live in – or do we ship Orkadians to the Pod cities down South to live.
My guess is this will be the next Tory question after covid/Ukrain blows over. They can ‘Fallow the Social Science’.
Letters and Post Office parcels cost the same throughout the UK. Unfortunately electricity is more expensive in the Northern Isles, despite the fact that it is the oil produced here which generates much of the UK’s electricity.
Afaik, there isn’t a refinery in either the Orkneys or Shetlands, so all the domestic fuel has to be shipped in. Perhaps the Scottish Government ought to build one, so that the islanders can have homegrown oil and gas.
Although, given the SG’s record with aluminium smelters, that might be a recipe for financial disaster.
I thought all those islands now had community wind farms and were coining it.
Great gulf between what you have to pay for energy from the grid and the pump and what other people who run the grid and the pump will pay you for your homebrew stuff. We label them both “energy” but they aren’t the same as the “high entropy” variety you generate for yourself has much lower utility than the switch on – switch off variety that matches demand and keeps society running.
Great gulf between what you have to pay for energy from the grid and the pump and what other people who run the grid and the pump will pay you for your homebrew stuff. We label them both “energy” but they aren’t the same as the “high entropy” variety you generate for yourself has much lower utility than the switch on – switch off variety that matches demand and keeps society running.
I thought all those islands now had community wind farms and were coining it.
The price is the same, not the cost.
Afaik, there isn’t a refinery in either the Orkneys or Shetlands, so all the domestic fuel has to be shipped in. Perhaps the Scottish Government ought to build one, so that the islanders can have homegrown oil and gas.
Although, given the SG’s record with aluminium smelters, that might be a recipe for financial disaster.
The price is the same, not the cost.
St Kilda was abandoned in 1930 and it population shipped to the mainland.
Perhaps we should do the same with Orkney?
The real question should be: Do we ship pods to Orkney for them to live in – or do we ship Orkadians to the Pod cities down South to live.
My guess is this will be the next Tory question after covid/Ukrain blows over. They can ‘Fallow the Social Science’.
Letters and Post Office parcels cost the same throughout the UK. Unfortunately electricity is more expensive in the Northern Isles, despite the fact that it is the oil produced here which generates much of the UK’s electricity.
And they are people who don’t appear to care about other people. Whether it is their own citizens – or the downstream citizens of the third world – much of the climate policy these days seems indifferent to human flourishing or suffering.
Political Ponerology by Lobacewski goes some way to explaining how governments become populated at the top by the socio- and psycho-pathic. Worth a read (new edition out last year after many years of being impossible to source).
Political Ponerology by Lobacewski goes some way to explaining how governments become populated at the top by the socio- and psycho-pathic. Worth a read (new edition out last year after many years of being impossible to source).
This. Time we stopped kidding ourselves that we live in a democracy.
A big difference between rural and urban. Everything is easy if you live in town. Imagine the extra cost of sending letters to Orkney; or taking electricity to Orkney. Do we need a policy to depopulate all rural areas and build new high-rise flats in the towns?
And they are people who don’t appear to care about other people. Whether it is their own citizens – or the downstream citizens of the third world – much of the climate policy these days seems indifferent to human flourishing or suffering.
Whilst I am sympathetic to the plight of the examples in this essay, there is no mention of any societal structures between the individuals themselves and the highest level of the State (Holyrood or Westminster).
Such a hollowed out Rousseau-esque situation is symptomatic of the ever-upwards consolidation of powers. Where are the churches, families, local organisations, community and voluntary associations, etc .? These elements of civic society have been progressively (pun intended) dismantled over recent decades (maybe longer), such that all the suffering people are dependent supplicants to an all-powerful, faceless, unaccountable and remote group of unreactive people.
Having visited the north of Scotland and talked to people there they felt forgotten by central government – with more reason than your average person. No help from Westminster and no help from Edinburgh. Once again (as with yesterday’s Kingsnorth article) the writer has a bit of a rose-tinted view of the past. The outer regions of Scotland have always been cold, wet and generally inhospitable. Back in the day there would have been multi-generational houses with lots of children running around. Now all the young people (and any children they have) are migrating to the towns or cities for opportunity. T’was ever thus but if you have 7 kids and 5 of them move away you still have someone to look after you. It makes me ask where is Miranda’s husband or boyfriend? It isn’t a dig at a marriagable age woman, I would ask the same of a chap in the same situation. Inhospitable regions are not meant for single people – if I had some pieces of advice for Miranda it would be get rid of your cat, find a partner and if you can’t stomach that then move away, it isn’t going to be better next year or the year after.
Shame green policies and the indifference of the devolved government were only gently probed by the author but a worthy article. Good work Unherd.
No different to the South West, where rural poverty is widespread, and government investment the opposite. Our taxes go to nonsense like HS2 and the O2 and schemes that benefit the Home Counties.
That the main trunk road from the Home Counties to the South West is still half single lane, tells that tale loud and true.
HS2 is of no benefit to the Home Counties, and at least the SW is not having its environment destroyed for the wretched vanity project.
A303? But you still have the M4/5 don’t you?
Stop ruining his comment with the facts! Anyway, you can’t see Stonehenge from the M4 so it doesn’t count.
The A30, I’d have thought, since that’s the main road to the south west.
Then ‘they’ have two trunk roads and a Motorway, so what is the problem?
Additionally the GWR mainline from Plymouth to Penzance is prohibitively expensive to maintain, given its plethora of viaducts, and should be closed forthwith.
Then ‘they’ have two trunk roads and a Motorway, so what is the problem?
Additionally the GWR mainline from Plymouth to Penzance is prohibitively expensive to maintain, given its plethora of viaducts, and should be closed forthwith.
M5 ends at Exeter, although the A38 is dual carriageway to Plymouth. That doesn’t help N Devon and Cornwall though.
Mind you, imagine the protests if the Government proposed extending the M5 to Land’s End.
Stop ruining his comment with the facts! Anyway, you can’t see Stonehenge from the M4 so it doesn’t count.
The A30, I’d have thought, since that’s the main road to the south west.
M5 ends at Exeter, although the A38 is dual carriageway to Plymouth. That doesn’t help N Devon and Cornwall though.
Mind you, imagine the protests if the Government proposed extending the M5 to Land’s End.
HS2 is of no benefit to the Home Counties, and at least the SW is not having its environment destroyed for the wretched vanity project.
A303? But you still have the M4/5 don’t you?
Why the hell should she get rid of her cat and tolerate a man? She should pull herself together and get a job.
@JP At least the SW has the weather. I don’t think it’s a fair comparison to the winter in the Highlands.
@NF The SW has had its landscape blighted in other ways. From when I went as a child the villages on the Lizard are almost unrecognisable.
@CW That was a bit mean on my part (being a dog man myself) but the fact remains that a cat is only out for itself and doesn’t love you more than someone else who will feed it – unlike a dog. My point wasn’t that she needs a man but someone to support her. Two people living under the same roof pay less in bills and if they sleep in the same bed that drops even further. Not a huge number of jobs for the physically unfit on Orkney.
Christ almighty, I hope if you’re ever in need of empathy and compassion from anyone, you get exactly as much as you’ve shown here.
I find your Patriarchy tendencies off-putting Caroline,
Why doesn’t she get a wife, and her cat too?
@JP At least the SW has the weather. I don’t think it’s a fair comparison to the winter in the Highlands.
@NF The SW has had its landscape blighted in other ways. From when I went as a child the villages on the Lizard are almost unrecognisable.
@CW That was a bit mean on my part (being a dog man myself) but the fact remains that a cat is only out for itself and doesn’t love you more than someone else who will feed it – unlike a dog. My point wasn’t that she needs a man but someone to support her. Two people living under the same roof pay less in bills and if they sleep in the same bed that drops even further. Not a huge number of jobs for the physically unfit on Orkney.
Christ almighty, I hope if you’re ever in need of empathy and compassion from anyone, you get exactly as much as you’ve shown here.
I find your Patriarchy tendencies off-putting Caroline,
Why doesn’t she get a wife, and her cat too?
No different to the South West, where rural poverty is widespread, and government investment the opposite. Our taxes go to nonsense like HS2 and the O2 and schemes that benefit the Home Counties.
That the main trunk road from the Home Counties to the South West is still half single lane, tells that tale loud and true.
Why the hell should she get rid of her cat and tolerate a man? She should pull herself together and get a job.
Having visited the north of Scotland and talked to people there they felt forgotten by central government – with more reason than your average person. No help from Westminster and no help from Edinburgh. Once again (as with yesterday’s Kingsnorth article) the writer has a bit of a rose-tinted view of the past. The outer regions of Scotland have always been cold, wet and generally inhospitable. Back in the day there would have been multi-generational houses with lots of children running around. Now all the young people (and any children they have) are migrating to the towns or cities for opportunity. T’was ever thus but if you have 7 kids and 5 of them move away you still have someone to look after you. It makes me ask where is Miranda’s husband or boyfriend? It isn’t a dig at a marriagable age woman, I would ask the same of a chap in the same situation. Inhospitable regions are not meant for single people – if I had some pieces of advice for Miranda it would be get rid of your cat, find a partner and if you can’t stomach that then move away, it isn’t going to be better next year or the year after.
Shame green policies and the indifference of the devolved government were only gently probed by the author but a worthy article. Good work Unherd.
This global warming that I keep reading about is a b****r!
Having lived in the Far North a good deal, even in Orkney, oddly enough, I am surprised the writer does not explain the problem.
The Highland and Island stone houses were built for fireplaces. The fireplace sends out radiant heat which heats the room air allowing it to absorb a much greater amount of moisture than the outside cold air. This is then vented up the chimney with the smoke. The fireplace is a water pump extracting water from inside making it dry and passing the water up the chimney, and warmth next to the fire.
Cold stone walls of the house heated by radiators and closed windows condense the water on them. A human produces huge amounts of water by metabolic processes, breath and evaporation from skin. Then cooking and washing, then the wet outside air and wet clothing from the endless mist. These pump water into the air which condense on the walls and everything not warmer than room ail – like her bedding and in her closet. The house is a water Trap.
A heat pump with dehumidifier function – One NOT like the stupid heat pumps the British use – but like the ones everyone around the world use – which use forced air from a wall mounted air handler, so would give a localized warmth so the person could sit near it, like a fireplace so there was a place to be warm – And with dehumidifier function could help dry at night.
The WRONG HEATING SYSTEM for that land and house is used as the stupid people are trying to use conventional systems where innovative is needed. look at normal A/C Heat pumps – using Air handlers/ heat exchanges mounted on the wall – blowing out hot air. Why the British have to use the radiators is crazy for small place retrofits in cold lands – Does not work right.
Here – typical units, called mini splits – compressor outside, wall mount heat exchange inside, and so CHEAP and fast to install. I can put one in a day.
Her high cost and misery is unnecessary.
https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=mini+split&iax=images&ia=images
P.S. I put these in all my places – they run one way for Air Condition cooling, and the same machine runs in reverse to heat. Those 18,000 BTU units come complete with everything but an outlet. Can be installed my me alone in a day, and cost maybe £1000.
They charge a lot to install them – and she would ideally have a small one for her bedroom, say 9000 BTU, for £ 500 too (always get 2 units instead of one which does 2 air-handlers. The cost is the same, and if one dies the other one keeps working with 2 separate units.)
Then one can run on de-humidify wile the other one heats.
Total cost, £ 1500, £3000 installed. Done – (for 2 units)
Elliot you are a genius. Thanks for explaining the non-obvious causes of the lady’s problems and then giving a clear achievable and intriguing solution. You would imagine the local authority in that area might share your knowledge and practicality, but apparently not.
I think if you were prime minister/president (not certain if you are UK based) a lot of problems might get solved in the world.
Elliot you are a genius. Thanks for explaining the non-obvious causes of the lady’s problems and then giving a clear achievable and intriguing solution. You would imagine the local authority in that area might share your knowledge and practicality, but apparently not.
I think if you were prime minister/president (not certain if you are UK based) a lot of problems might get solved in the world.
To call upon your expertise Elliot
Are these Mini-Split systems the same type of heat pump currently being championed as a solution to Net Zero etc?What are the running costs compared to gas boiler with radiatorsAre there any downsides to consider such as efficiency during very cold weather?
Yes, sort of. They’re championing the large-sized and expensive (whole house) units as a solution to Net Zero. What Elliott is talking about is the same tech, just smaller, significantly cheaper, designed for one to two room area. I’m not sure why all of a sudden people have jumped on the heat-pump bandwagon as an energy saviour, when large parts of the world (including here in SE US) have been running heat-pumps for AC/heating for 30+ years. Running costs? Well, as always, the devil’s in the details. I run a heat pump (not a mini-split), hooked up to central ducting/blower that cools/heats the whole house (or at least it tries to). AC functions here in the hot area of the US are very expensive, roughly 5KW@240V of power draw. Heating is roughly 3.5-4KW@240V, but I rarely ever heat with it, as I burn wood (does a much better job and it is free). It performs poorly in extreme cold, but my heat pump is 20 years old, I’m told the new and expensive units do a good job even down to 30F or so. Hard to compare costs to gas boiler, as gas in my area is dirt cheap. I would guess, on the average, much cheaper to run on electricity than on gas, but then again, how low do your temps drop?
Yes, sort of. They’re championing the large-sized and expensive (whole house) units as a solution to Net Zero. What Elliott is talking about is the same tech, just smaller, significantly cheaper, designed for one to two room area. I’m not sure why all of a sudden people have jumped on the heat-pump bandwagon as an energy saviour, when large parts of the world (including here in SE US) have been running heat-pumps for AC/heating for 30+ years. Running costs? Well, as always, the devil’s in the details. I run a heat pump (not a mini-split), hooked up to central ducting/blower that cools/heats the whole house (or at least it tries to). AC functions here in the hot area of the US are very expensive, roughly 5KW@240V of power draw. Heating is roughly 3.5-4KW@240V, but I rarely ever heat with it, as I burn wood (does a much better job and it is free). It performs poorly in extreme cold, but my heat pump is 20 years old, I’m told the new and expensive units do a good job even down to 30F or so. Hard to compare costs to gas boiler, as gas in my area is dirt cheap. I would guess, on the average, much cheaper to run on electricity than on gas, but then again, how low do your temps drop?
P.S. I put these in all my places – they run one way for Air Condition cooling, and the same machine runs in reverse to heat. Those 18,000 BTU units come complete with everything but an outlet. Can be installed my me alone in a day, and cost maybe £1000.
They charge a lot to install them – and she would ideally have a small one for her bedroom, say 9000 BTU, for £ 500 too (always get 2 units instead of one which does 2 air-handlers. The cost is the same, and if one dies the other one keeps working with 2 separate units.)
Then one can run on de-humidify wile the other one heats.
Total cost, £ 1500, £3000 installed. Done – (for 2 units)
To call upon your expertise Elliot
Are these Mini-Split systems the same type of heat pump currently being championed as a solution to Net Zero etc?What are the running costs compared to gas boiler with radiatorsAre there any downsides to consider such as efficiency during very cold weather?
It’s not that simple as I’m sure you know.
Having lived in the Far North a good deal, even in Orkney, oddly enough, I am surprised the writer does not explain the problem.
The Highland and Island stone houses were built for fireplaces. The fireplace sends out radiant heat which heats the room air allowing it to absorb a much greater amount of moisture than the outside cold air. This is then vented up the chimney with the smoke. The fireplace is a water pump extracting water from inside making it dry and passing the water up the chimney, and warmth next to the fire.
Cold stone walls of the house heated by radiators and closed windows condense the water on them. A human produces huge amounts of water by metabolic processes, breath and evaporation from skin. Then cooking and washing, then the wet outside air and wet clothing from the endless mist. These pump water into the air which condense on the walls and everything not warmer than room ail – like her bedding and in her closet. The house is a water Trap.
A heat pump with dehumidifier function – One NOT like the stupid heat pumps the British use – but like the ones everyone around the world use – which use forced air from a wall mounted air handler, so would give a localized warmth so the person could sit near it, like a fireplace so there was a place to be warm – And with dehumidifier function could help dry at night.
The WRONG HEATING SYSTEM for that land and house is used as the stupid people are trying to use conventional systems where innovative is needed. look at normal A/C Heat pumps – using Air handlers/ heat exchanges mounted on the wall – blowing out hot air. Why the British have to use the radiators is crazy for small place retrofits in cold lands – Does not work right.
Here – typical units, called mini splits – compressor outside, wall mount heat exchange inside, and so CHEAP and fast to install. I can put one in a day.
Her high cost and misery is unnecessary.
https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=mini+split&iax=images&ia=images
It’s not that simple as I’m sure you know.
This global warming that I keep reading about is a b****r!
We have to stimulate a public conversation about the idiocy of the so-called Green movement.
Indeed, how ridiculous it would be to generate electricity in the Scottish islands from local wind power and, no doubt soon enough, tidal power – much better to ship fossil fuels from around the world there to do that eh!
As I say above, wind power is great as long as you can’t see the turbines. As I also say today, all of you people should volunteer to lead the way – cut off gas, walk everywhere, give up your passports, etc, to show people like me how stupid they are. How about a million Earthers gathering together and burning their passports!!
Instead of talking, lead by example.
I have no objection to seeing the turbines. To use the phrase ‘you people’ really does say more about you than me. If caring about the environment and the prospects for my grandchildren makes me an ‘Earther’ in your eyes, then I am proud to be one. What is more idiotic, concern about the environment or not having such concern?
We are all concerned about the environment. The issue is whether we truly need a massive restructuring of society in order to save the planet from what the planet has done for over a billion years, with or without automobiles and nitrogen fertilizer. It’s a complete rouse.
Or peak oil.
Or peak oil.
Believe it or not, I have a very great concern because I have great-grandchilren. But, windpower is not the answer. Nuclear power ticks all the boxes but people are frightened of it.
Last week I talked about the nuclear power station in Anglesey. It has been shut down (natural end of life) but not quite decommissioned. It means good jobs and a long term source of electricity if it is recommissioned. But nobody will have it. Instead there are ideas about wind turbines. Everybody wants to hug a wind turbine but not if it spoils the view from their kitchen window.
I have worked on the corrosion protection of wind turbines. In the sea you have no chance – very short lifetimes, poor efficiency.
A nuclear power station went on line fairly recently – Hinckley Point C. But it took years and years to fight all the legal cases and other protests.
Wind-power is pretty darn good these days. I suggest you look at https://gridwatch.co.uk/ to see how much it can contribute. There is plenty of space for offshore wind-farms and some for onshore too (which are cheaper). Using off-peak power to store energy via pumped water is the way to go. Nuclear is so expensive to build, the reactors only last 20 to 40 years, and are a devil to decommission.
Try looking at gridwatch in the Winter. Then we get many days with little wind, so only a few hundred megawatts. Gas, nuclear and coal then has to bridge the gap.
Yes, of course the wind doesn’t blow all the time, and the sun doesn’t shine at night, or appear for long in the winter, etc etc. But the point is that about 25% of the UKs electricity annually is now derived from wind-power, and there is room for more.
There are no easy options here: burn gas whose price fluctuates wildly on a global market (I trade commodities: we don’t call it Gas Vegas for nothing) sold to us by despots; spend a lot of money on nuclear power stations and kick the can of decommissioning down the road (not to mention the planning objections and potential disasters). Pragmatically, we do need some nuclear for the base-load, but we also need to focus on energy-saving and research into better storage too.
Yes, of course the wind doesn’t blow all the time, and the sun doesn’t shine at night, or appear for long in the winter, etc etc. But the point is that about 25% of the UKs electricity annually is now derived from wind-power, and there is room for more.
There are no easy options here: burn gas whose price fluctuates wildly on a global market (I trade commodities: we don’t call it Gas Vegas for nothing) sold to us by despots; spend a lot of money on nuclear power stations and kick the can of decommissioning down the road (not to mention the planning objections and potential disasters). Pragmatically, we do need some nuclear for the base-load, but we also need to focus on energy-saving and research into better storage too.
Off-peak power, as in Dinorwic, does not save electricity. It is a costing exercise only. It is also limited in its adaptability. We don’t have batteries good enough for storage and I would say that we never will – because of the Third Law of Thermodynamics.
I’m referring to this scheme: https://www.sse.com/news-and-views/2023/03/britain-s-largest-pumped-hydro-scheme-in-40-years-gets-100m-investment-boost/
A much better investment in infrastructure and the future than the God-awful HS2.
OK, so I’ve read it. It doesn’t change my comment. The Dinorwic scheme (much smaller) does the same. It pumps water up a hill at night and allows it to fall by gravity during the day. It uses off-peak power as does the Highland scheme.
Firstly, there isn’t enough wind power to do this by about a factor of 10, or more. The Dinorwic scheme uses regular available power.
Secondly, where will the wind turbines be situated? I would bet you that if Scotland was filled with wind turbines, people would say that it would spoil the environment (meaning the appearance of the place).
Thirdly, everyone thinks that wind turbines belong in the sea. As a professional Corrosion Engineer, I can tell you that this just won’t happen. At the moment, the existing turbines are struggling after, say, 10 years. Nobody can maintain them fast enough.
Fourthly, the idea is good. We need more good ideas and you are correct in this. But each area needs an individually-tailored idea. Who is doing this?
I am 100% in favour of wind power but only if the generator is close to the user because of the ease of maintenance. I look out of my kitchen window and see 34 wind turbines in the distance. Some days they don’t turn all day. Most days at least 7 are inoperative. The further away they are from people, the more difficult they are to maintain. The further away they are from people the more energy is consumed in the transmission of the electricity to the user.
Therefore, if you want to save the Environment (capital ‘E’), you will have to change the environment, small ‘e’.
More people should point out these things as you have done. You are making an effort. Sometimes I get angry at those who say, ‘Save the Planet’, and then do nothing.
Well, I imagine corrosion is a problem for many types of energy generation equipment. It can be a particularly vexatious problem in nuclear power stations, with all the obvious consequent dangers. The French have been experiencing corrosion in their nuclear plants recently which drove up electricity prices there (and also for others who take supply from them via interconnectors).
Seeing some idle wind-turbines out of your window is hardly a representative sample size now, is it? And just because the wind isn’t blowing round your way, doesn’t mean it isn’t howling a gale elsewhere in the UK. But fair point that there are completely wind free days all over the UK.
As for locality of consumption and generation, isn’t that what high-tension cables are for? I must be several hundred miles from my nearest nuclear power plant, but so what?
As you pass electricity through a cable it generates heat, effectively turning the electrical energy into heat energy. The further you push it through the overhead lines, the more electricity is lost. If you are hundreds of miles from a generator I would suggest that they have to generate 120 units to get 100 units to you. 20% wasted.
Thanks, I will add transmission loss to my off-duty research list (I’m not being sarcastic).
Thanks, I will add transmission loss to my off-duty research list (I’m not being sarcastic).
As you pass electricity through a cable it generates heat, effectively turning the electrical energy into heat energy. The further you push it through the overhead lines, the more electricity is lost. If you are hundreds of miles from a generator I would suggest that they have to generate 120 units to get 100 units to you. 20% wasted.
Well, I imagine corrosion is a problem for many types of energy generation equipment. It can be a particularly vexatious problem in nuclear power stations, with all the obvious consequent dangers. The French have been experiencing corrosion in their nuclear plants recently which drove up electricity prices there (and also for others who take supply from them via interconnectors).
Seeing some idle wind-turbines out of your window is hardly a representative sample size now, is it? And just because the wind isn’t blowing round your way, doesn’t mean it isn’t howling a gale elsewhere in the UK. But fair point that there are completely wind free days all over the UK.
As for locality of consumption and generation, isn’t that what high-tension cables are for? I must be several hundred miles from my nearest nuclear power plant, but so what?
OK, so I’ve read it. It doesn’t change my comment. The Dinorwic scheme (much smaller) does the same. It pumps water up a hill at night and allows it to fall by gravity during the day. It uses off-peak power as does the Highland scheme.
Firstly, there isn’t enough wind power to do this by about a factor of 10, or more. The Dinorwic scheme uses regular available power.
Secondly, where will the wind turbines be situated? I would bet you that if Scotland was filled with wind turbines, people would say that it would spoil the environment (meaning the appearance of the place).
Thirdly, everyone thinks that wind turbines belong in the sea. As a professional Corrosion Engineer, I can tell you that this just won’t happen. At the moment, the existing turbines are struggling after, say, 10 years. Nobody can maintain them fast enough.
Fourthly, the idea is good. We need more good ideas and you are correct in this. But each area needs an individually-tailored idea. Who is doing this?
I am 100% in favour of wind power but only if the generator is close to the user because of the ease of maintenance. I look out of my kitchen window and see 34 wind turbines in the distance. Some days they don’t turn all day. Most days at least 7 are inoperative. The further away they are from people, the more difficult they are to maintain. The further away they are from people the more energy is consumed in the transmission of the electricity to the user.
Therefore, if you want to save the Environment (capital ‘E’), you will have to change the environment, small ‘e’.
More people should point out these things as you have done. You are making an effort. Sometimes I get angry at those who say, ‘Save the Planet’, and then do nothing.
I’m referring to this scheme: https://www.sse.com/news-and-views/2023/03/britain-s-largest-pumped-hydro-scheme-in-40-years-gets-100m-investment-boost/
A much better investment in infrastructure and the future than the God-awful HS2.
Try looking at gridwatch in the Winter. Then we get many days with little wind, so only a few hundred megawatts. Gas, nuclear and coal then has to bridge the gap.
Off-peak power, as in Dinorwic, does not save electricity. It is a costing exercise only. It is also limited in its adaptability. We don’t have batteries good enough for storage and I would say that we never will – because of the Third Law of Thermodynamics.
Wind-power is pretty darn good these days. I suggest you look at https://gridwatch.co.uk/ to see how much it can contribute. There is plenty of space for offshore wind-farms and some for onshore too (which are cheaper). Using off-peak power to store energy via pumped water is the way to go. Nuclear is so expensive to build, the reactors only last 20 to 40 years, and are a devil to decommission.
We are all concerned about the environment. The issue is whether we truly need a massive restructuring of society in order to save the planet from what the planet has done for over a billion years, with or without automobiles and nitrogen fertilizer. It’s a complete rouse.
Believe it or not, I have a very great concern because I have great-grandchilren. But, windpower is not the answer. Nuclear power ticks all the boxes but people are frightened of it.
Last week I talked about the nuclear power station in Anglesey. It has been shut down (natural end of life) but not quite decommissioned. It means good jobs and a long term source of electricity if it is recommissioned. But nobody will have it. Instead there are ideas about wind turbines. Everybody wants to hug a wind turbine but not if it spoils the view from their kitchen window.
I have worked on the corrosion protection of wind turbines. In the sea you have no chance – very short lifetimes, poor efficiency.
A nuclear power station went on line fairly recently – Hinckley Point C. But it took years and years to fight all the legal cases and other protests.
I have no objection to seeing the turbines. To use the phrase ‘you people’ really does say more about you than me. If caring about the environment and the prospects for my grandchildren makes me an ‘Earther’ in your eyes, then I am proud to be one. What is more idiotic, concern about the environment or not having such concern?
As I say above, wind power is great as long as you can’t see the turbines. As I also say today, all of you people should volunteer to lead the way – cut off gas, walk everywhere, give up your passports, etc, to show people like me how stupid they are. How about a million Earthers gathering together and burning their passports!!
Instead of talking, lead by example.
Indeed, how ridiculous it would be to generate electricity in the Scottish islands from local wind power and, no doubt soon enough, tidal power – much better to ship fossil fuels from around the world there to do that eh!
We have to stimulate a public conversation about the idiocy of the so-called Green movement.
Humza Yousaf won’t care about these people. They’re far too white.
Humza Yousaf won’t care about these people. They’re far too white.
Many thanks to Cal Flyn for this piece. I am interested that there is no mention of of the traditional energy source for the Highlands and Islands, peat. In bygone years, cutting peat took up a huge proportion of crofters’ time.
Yes, I know that this is the bête noire of the environmentalists. But if there is no alternative, sod them (pun intended). Just bear in mind that the German’s burn brown coal so that they can make BMWs and the Chinese burn brown coal to power their computers that search for bitcoin magic numbers. So burning peat to keep warm, until someone comes up with a viable alternative, is justified.
You seem to have missed this paragraph:
What is the carbon footprint of peat compared to similar energetic output for coal?
But peat’s a RENEWABLE, isn’t it?
They’re only burning BIOMASS: just like the heavily-subsidised ‘green’ furnaces that run on, er, trees.
And are shipped from Portland, Oregon to DRAX, a journey of about 14,700 nautical miles*
(* Going via The Horn.)
Really, who knew that going eco could evoke the twin spectres of Derek & Clive?
Most of the biomass wood pellets come from Mississippi, and just cross the Gulf and Atlantic.
Indeed, BIOMASS is BS.
Yes, and that’s simply to satisfy a shortsighted government mandate to burn “biomass”. The Japanese have a much more sensible use for Oregon wood chips, which are basically ground-up inferior logs: feedstock for their paper mills.
Really, who knew that going eco could evoke the twin spectres of Derek & Clive?
Most of the biomass wood pellets come from Mississippi, and just cross the Gulf and Atlantic.
Indeed, BIOMASS is BS.
Yes, and that’s simply to satisfy a shortsighted government mandate to burn “biomass”. The Japanese have a much more sensible use for Oregon wood chips, which are basically ground-up inferior logs: feedstock for their paper mills.
And are shipped from Portland, Oregon to DRAX, a journey of about 14,700 nautical miles*
(* Going via The Horn.)
But peat’s a RENEWABLE, isn’t it?
They’re only burning BIOMASS: just like the heavily-subsidised ‘green’ furnaces that run on, er, trees.
What is the carbon footprint of peat compared to similar energetic output for coal?
Those pesky environmentalists eh – sod the environment, we’ll be dead soon enough so who cares.
So lead on. Environmentalists are good at bullying people. Take out your heating, scrap your car.
It is the environmentalist rhetoric from acid rain to the forthcoming ice age, or is that global warming, that is alarmist and misplaced. Please do take the lead and let us know on here how you find your heat pump run off solar panels, with no car and absolutely no air travel. Sensible environmental polices are fine, its just the manic mantra of Greta and her uninformed acolytes the average person rails against.
Whatever happened to acid rain. Im glad it’s not about anymore. Also the hole in the ozone layer has healed up. I actually read a piece on this written by two Australian scientists who said there was no hole in the ozone layer now because we,the public took the action advised and changed our fridges and stopped using hair spray. So these environmental issues can be solved. Tinkerbelle does not have to die.
I think that it was more that governments actually took notice for once and banned CFCs (or whatever they were) rather than people not using them voluntarily, which let’s face it would be unlikely – you aren’t going to change your fridge just for that are you? However I think I read recently that massive surreptitious releases of whatever is bad for the ozone layer have been identified in China.
CFCs again I think and you are correct about the release. But it hasn’t attracted much attention, has it.
Can I just say that I am a massive fan of preserving the Environment for the future. What I can’t accept, and I guess this is what UnHerd is all about, is that our governments are lying and cheating and pretending to do things, instead of doing real things. If you are interested I can point you to a great TV series, run by young environmentalists, which is showing the sheer evil of it all. The various meetings and protocols are shown to be shams.
CFCs again I think and you are correct about the release. But it hasn’t attracted much attention, has it.
Can I just say that I am a massive fan of preserving the Environment for the future. What I can’t accept, and I guess this is what UnHerd is all about, is that our governments are lying and cheating and pretending to do things, instead of doing real things. If you are interested I can point you to a great TV series, run by young environmentalists, which is showing the sheer evil of it all. The various meetings and protocols are shown to be shams.
I think that it was more that governments actually took notice for once and banned CFCs (or whatever they were) rather than people not using them voluntarily, which let’s face it would be unlikely – you aren’t going to change your fridge just for that are you? However I think I read recently that massive surreptitious releases of whatever is bad for the ozone layer have been identified in China.
Whatever happened to acid rain. Im glad it’s not about anymore. Also the hole in the ozone layer has healed up. I actually read a piece on this written by two Australian scientists who said there was no hole in the ozone layer now because we,the public took the action advised and changed our fridges and stopped using hair spray. So these environmental issues can be solved. Tinkerbelle does not have to die.
So lead on. Environmentalists are good at bullying people. Take out your heating, scrap your car.
It is the environmentalist rhetoric from acid rain to the forthcoming ice age, or is that global warming, that is alarmist and misplaced. Please do take the lead and let us know on here how you find your heat pump run off solar panels, with no car and absolutely no air travel. Sensible environmental polices are fine, its just the manic mantra of Greta and her uninformed acolytes the average person rails against.
You seem to have missed this paragraph:
Those pesky environmentalists eh – sod the environment, we’ll be dead soon enough so who cares.
Many thanks to Cal Flyn for this piece. I am interested that there is no mention of of the traditional energy source for the Highlands and Islands, peat. In bygone years, cutting peat took up a huge proportion of crofters’ time.
Yes, I know that this is the bête noire of the environmentalists. But if there is no alternative, sod them (pun intended). Just bear in mind that the German’s burn brown coal so that they can make BMWs and the Chinese burn brown coal to power their computers that search for bitcoin magic numbers. So burning peat to keep warm, until someone comes up with a viable alternative, is justified.
What about all this astronomically subsidised ‘Green Energy’ we are always being harangued about?
Granted the sun never shines in Orkney but what about the incessant wind?
People only want wind power where they can’t see the turbines. We could start with wind turbines in Hyde Park.
Not enough wind, but Hampstead Heath, the epicentre of Quislington* would be ideal.
(* Thank you FB.)
Apparently some of the windmills in Scotland run on back up diesel generators
Very good.
Very good.
Not enough wind, but Hampstead Heath, the epicentre of Quislington* would be ideal.
(* Thank you FB.)
Apparently some of the windmills in Scotland run on back up diesel generators
Could you explain how you consider ‘green energy’ in the UK to be heavily, indeed ‘astronomically’, subsidised. As I understand it although there were subsidies available in the early days of solar and wind power, not unreasonable to kick start take-up and encourage technological development (you may disagree), there is no longer anything substantial on the subsidy front. I am no expert so may well be wrong, so I am genuinely interested in your answer.
You’re correct, but will not be popular for saying so.
In reality, oil and nuclear are massively subsidised, but it’s never spoken about:
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/oct/06/fossil-fuel-industry-subsidies-of-11m-dollars-a-minute-imf-finds
https://theecologist.org/2016/jan/04/after-60-years-nuclear-power-industry-survives-only-stupendous-subsidies
On nuclear, perhaps you’re right. But if oil is so, er, ‘massively subsidised;, how come HMG manages to tax it so heavily, in Corporation Tax, in ‘NI’ and Income Tax on the wages of those who extract and supply it, and in Fuel Duty and VAT at the pump?
Two countries, Norway and Denmark. The first has blown billions on expensive offshore oil while the second is covered in inexpensive wind turbines, subsidy free according to the Graun. But which country has the trillion dollar sovereign wealth fund? Must be Denmark…
Two countries, Norway and Denmark. The first has blown billions on expensive offshore oil while the second is covered in inexpensive wind turbines, subsidy free according to the Graun. But which country has the trillion dollar sovereign wealth fund? Must be Denmark…
On nuclear, perhaps you’re right. But if oil is so, er, ‘massively subsidised;, how come HMG manages to tax it so heavily, in Corporation Tax, in ‘NI’ and Income Tax on the wages of those who extract and supply it, and in Fuel Duty and VAT at the pump?
You answered your question in your first two sentences.
As to your claim that:-“there is no longer anything substantial on the subsidy front” I’m not sure about that, having spent a fruitless hour trying to cut my way through all the toxic propaganda that surrounds this subject. Even HMG’s website is predictably next to worthless.
Thus while I assume that annual subsidies have decreased as you claim, they are still substantial by most measures.
Perhaps there is an UnHerd ‘expert’ out there who can settle this matter?
I made no such ‘claim’, just said that is what I understood but await help from someone more knowledgeable. How can you say so decisively that subsidies are ‘still substantial’ if you have absolutely no idea what they are, or are not? Do you still think that they are likely to be ‘astronomical’?
I can’t answer this. But I do know that power losses from the point of generation to the point of use are unbelievable. For Scottish islands, I would guess at 15%. Even more if you generate the electricity in Scotland and send it to London. As the cost per unit (for comparison purposes, not for consumers) is measured at the point of generation, this is effectively a very large subsidy.
I have worked for years as a supplier and then consultant to the National Grid. In all schemes for the future, the point of generation is very important. So the idea of putting turbines somewhere in the distance, in the sea perhaps, will rarely add up.
There is also the massive environmental and financial cost of sourcing and constructing heavy-duty power lines to try to minimise the % of transmission loss.
These big lines are best run overhead via pylons through wild areas (not a good environmental look!) to eliminate the complications and exponential costs of cooling and maintaining underground lines.
The fact remains that nothing has yet replaced the energy-density, dispatchability and portability (so that generation can be placed most efficiently) of hydrocarbons. Only nuclear comes close, unless you happen to live in a city close to a high-altitude hydro dam, like much of Norway or Iceland.
Yes, power lines don’t look good. But they are not bad for the environment – depending on your definition of environment.
Yes, power lines don’t look good. But they are not bad for the environment – depending on your definition of environment.
There is also the massive environmental and financial cost of sourcing and constructing heavy-duty power lines to try to minimise the % of transmission loss.
These big lines are best run overhead via pylons through wild areas (not a good environmental look!) to eliminate the complications and exponential costs of cooling and maintaining underground lines.
The fact remains that nothing has yet replaced the energy-density, dispatchability and portability (so that generation can be placed most efficiently) of hydrocarbons. Only nuclear comes close, unless you happen to live in a city close to a high-altitude hydro dam, like much of Norway or Iceland.
I made no such ‘claim’, just said that is what I understood but await help from someone more knowledgeable. How can you say so decisively that subsidies are ‘still substantial’ if you have absolutely no idea what they are, or are not? Do you still think that they are likely to be ‘astronomical’?
I can’t answer this. But I do know that power losses from the point of generation to the point of use are unbelievable. For Scottish islands, I would guess at 15%. Even more if you generate the electricity in Scotland and send it to London. As the cost per unit (for comparison purposes, not for consumers) is measured at the point of generation, this is effectively a very large subsidy.
I have worked for years as a supplier and then consultant to the National Grid. In all schemes for the future, the point of generation is very important. So the idea of putting turbines somewhere in the distance, in the sea perhaps, will rarely add up.
The subsidies are in the form of legal requirements to prioritise wind power over other sources, and the massive taxes on oil and gas in attempts to make wind and solar look competitive.
The desperate smokescreens put up by the guardian et al, wherein they claim anything less than 100% tax is a subsidy, are all for the purpose of disguising this, and fooling the public, some of whom are more willingly fooled than others.
This explains the true cost of renewables very well.
https://watt-logic.com/2022/04/11/cost-of-renewables/
You’re correct, but will not be popular for saying so.
In reality, oil and nuclear are massively subsidised, but it’s never spoken about:
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/oct/06/fossil-fuel-industry-subsidies-of-11m-dollars-a-minute-imf-finds
https://theecologist.org/2016/jan/04/after-60-years-nuclear-power-industry-survives-only-stupendous-subsidies
You answered your question in your first two sentences.
As to your claim that:-“there is no longer anything substantial on the subsidy front” I’m not sure about that, having spent a fruitless hour trying to cut my way through all the toxic propaganda that surrounds this subject. Even HMG’s website is predictably next to worthless.
Thus while I assume that annual subsidies have decreased as you claim, they are still substantial by most measures.
Perhaps there is an UnHerd ‘expert’ out there who can settle this matter?
The subsidies are in the form of legal requirements to prioritise wind power over other sources, and the massive taxes on oil and gas in attempts to make wind and solar look competitive.
The desperate smokescreens put up by the guardian et al, wherein they claim anything less than 100% tax is a subsidy, are all for the purpose of disguising this, and fooling the public, some of whom are more willingly fooled than others.
This explains the true cost of renewables very well.
https://watt-logic.com/2022/04/11/cost-of-renewables/
I thought all those Scottish islands had community wind farms and free power for locals.
In Orkney, yhey have subsidised flights and ferries and are connected to the UK mainland grid . Official figures will tell you that they export electricity to the mainland so we’re paying for that too.
Now that The Grand Fleet has left Scapa Flow they should be abandoned, or perhaps used as a migrant detention centre.
Now that The Grand Fleet has left Scapa Flow they should be abandoned, or perhaps used as a migrant detention centre.
In Orkney, yhey have subsidised flights and ferries and are connected to the UK mainland grid . Official figures will tell you that they export electricity to the mainland so we’re paying for that too.
People only want wind power where they can’t see the turbines. We could start with wind turbines in Hyde Park.
Could you explain how you consider ‘green energy’ in the UK to be heavily, indeed ‘astronomically’, subsidised. As I understand it although there were subsidies available in the early days of solar and wind power, not unreasonable to kick start take-up and encourage technological development (you may disagree), there is no longer anything substantial on the subsidy front. I am no expert so may well be wrong, so I am genuinely interested in your answer.
I thought all those Scottish islands had community wind farms and free power for locals.
What about all this astronomically subsidised ‘Green Energy’ we are always being harangued about?
Granted the sun never shines in Orkney but what about the incessant wind?
“Physiologically,” Dr Raquel Nunes, an assistant professor of public health at Warwick University, told me, “the body will try to compensate for the cold. What happens is that the blood becomes thicker, and that can cause clots.” The clots can then cause heart attacks or strokes.
This is not an accurate description of how the body responds to cold, or maintains homeostasis of the blood.
This appears to be a layman’s understanding of the physiology of the body.
The quote is attributed to an individual with a masters’ degree in public health, which is an administrative degree for a bureaucratic job, not a medical degree to be a physician.
The Aleut and the Eskimo people of Alaska and Canada, as a population, have an extremely low rate of cardiovascular disease. During the colder months, their diet consists almost entirely of animal proteins including seal fats and caribou. They have a very low supply of fibrous or green vegetables in their diet.
The cold does not seem to lead to thickening of their blood, blood clots, or an increase in strokes as this article suggests.
Dont they have genetic difference somewhere? I remember reading yonks ago that the Sami didnt have it.
Dont they have genetic difference somewhere? I remember reading yonks ago that the Sami didnt have it.
“Physiologically,” Dr Raquel Nunes, an assistant professor of public health at Warwick University, told me, “the body will try to compensate for the cold. What happens is that the blood becomes thicker, and that can cause clots.” The clots can then cause heart attacks or strokes.
This is not an accurate description of how the body responds to cold, or maintains homeostasis of the blood.
This appears to be a layman’s understanding of the physiology of the body.
The quote is attributed to an individual with a masters’ degree in public health, which is an administrative degree for a bureaucratic job, not a medical degree to be a physician.
The Aleut and the Eskimo people of Alaska and Canada, as a population, have an extremely low rate of cardiovascular disease. During the colder months, their diet consists almost entirely of animal proteins including seal fats and caribou. They have a very low supply of fibrous or green vegetables in their diet.
The cold does not seem to lead to thickening of their blood, blood clots, or an increase in strokes as this article suggests.
Ugh. I feel for these people.Just awful circumstances to deal with. Unfortunately, I don’t see the situation improving.
Perhaps some global warming would help them?
I do not believe the people cited in this article are real people. They are made up. When I see these places on tv no one is like that.
Right. You believe the TV…
Right. You believe the TV…
Perhaps some global warming would help them?
I do not believe the people cited in this article are real people. They are made up. When I see these places on tv no one is like that.
Ugh. I feel for these people.Just awful circumstances to deal with. Unfortunately, I don’t see the situation improving.
I didn’t particularly like this essay. We were given some examples of people living in dire conditions, but I am sure you can find them anywhere.
The author bemoans that the price cap is cap on the units, not on the amounts being spent. What was he expecting, a “consume as much as you like” kind of scenario?
The article would benefit from fewer examples and more statistics on the housing stock. As it is I didn’t learn much.
“B minus. A good attempt but lacking in statistics and too much focus on real people. Please redraft and present your work in our next tutorial.”
“Single examples do not great policy make”. Discuss
“Single examples do not great policy make”. Discuss
Yes, you can find examples like this all over the UK. What he doesn’t mention is that our daily standing charge for electricity in the Western Isles is currently 51.07p going up to 58.97p on 1 April (last time I looked Londoners had the cheapest standing charges in the country). That compares to the gas daily standing charge of 28.48 p that goes up to 29.11 on Saturday. I live in the Western Isles in an all electric house. We received a £200 payment to compensate us for being dependent on sources of heating other than piped gas. Plus pensioners over 80 received a £500 heating allowance this year (usually £200 a year) and other pensioners received £300. People on pension credits also received an additional payment. A few people might be cutting and using peat but it’s very hard work. The roads up here definitely aren’t lined with cut peats!
Presumably you were also in receipt of the £66/£67 per month x 6 paid to all domestic electricity accounts?
That and the government picking up the slack on over-cap energy prices has been enormously helpful. It’s still too little in SOME properties in SOME areas, but better than nothing. In my area wood stoves and fireplaces have bridged the gap between just about managing to prevent being cold and damp, and feeling comfortable. Unfortunately, it looks as though the puritans will be coming soon to stamp out these disgusting symbols of individual independence. Over my (very cold) dead body!
Where is all the wood – if we all change to wood? Presumably, we will import it from Sweden.
Where is all the wood – if we all change to wood? Presumably, we will import it from Sweden.
Are you an artist from a London borough. Do you sell sculptures made from driftwood to Americans at several K a time. I live in a UK SW city and my standing charge is 50p per day.
I don’t know if it is comparable, but I pay about 30+24p in standing charge.
I know that where I live, central belt, there are 3 villages that for some reason are without gas. I don’t know whether their standing charge differs, though.
Presumably you were also in receipt of the £66/£67 per month x 6 paid to all domestic electricity accounts?
That and the government picking up the slack on over-cap energy prices has been enormously helpful. It’s still too little in SOME properties in SOME areas, but better than nothing. In my area wood stoves and fireplaces have bridged the gap between just about managing to prevent being cold and damp, and feeling comfortable. Unfortunately, it looks as though the puritans will be coming soon to stamp out these disgusting symbols of individual independence. Over my (very cold) dead body!
Are you an artist from a London borough. Do you sell sculptures made from driftwood to Americans at several K a time. I live in a UK SW city and my standing charge is 50p per day.
I don’t know if it is comparable, but I pay about 30+24p in standing charge.
I know that where I live, central belt, there are 3 villages that for some reason are without gas. I don’t know whether their standing charge differs, though.
Maybe we should green light more North Sea gas? I know it’s a bit “out there” as an idea and the BBC says it’s controversial. But subsidising consumption won’t increase production so we ‘ll still freeze. A bit like a price cap of two Kopek for a loaf of bread, people still couldn’t get enough bread.
“B minus. A good attempt but lacking in statistics and too much focus on real people. Please redraft and present your work in our next tutorial.”
Yes, you can find examples like this all over the UK. What he doesn’t mention is that our daily standing charge for electricity in the Western Isles is currently 51.07p going up to 58.97p on 1 April (last time I looked Londoners had the cheapest standing charges in the country). That compares to the gas daily standing charge of 28.48 p that goes up to 29.11 on Saturday. I live in the Western Isles in an all electric house. We received a £200 payment to compensate us for being dependent on sources of heating other than piped gas. Plus pensioners over 80 received a £500 heating allowance this year (usually £200 a year) and other pensioners received £300. People on pension credits also received an additional payment. A few people might be cutting and using peat but it’s very hard work. The roads up here definitely aren’t lined with cut peats!
Maybe we should green light more North Sea gas? I know it’s a bit “out there” as an idea and the BBC says it’s controversial. But subsidising consumption won’t increase production so we ‘ll still freeze. A bit like a price cap of two Kopek for a loaf of bread, people still couldn’t get enough bread.
I didn’t particularly like this essay. We were given some examples of people living in dire conditions, but I am sure you can find them anywhere.
The author bemoans that the price cap is cap on the units, not on the amounts being spent. What was he expecting, a “consume as much as you like” kind of scenario?
The article would benefit from fewer examples and more statistics on the housing stock. As it is I didn’t learn much.
Pity they couldn’t find some way of coping in the manner of the past. I and most of my age group grew up without central heating. I have lived in a stone cottage where the rayburn provided heating, cooking and hot water. Stone walls, once heated, actually are good at retaining heat. I had a generator, but in the old days the electricity bill was called the electric light bill, because that was all it was used for. In other rural areas farm animals were winter housed in buildings adjacent to the house and provided heat. But it could be that some places are pretty well uninhabitable.
”I have lived in a stone cottage where the rayburn provided heating, cooking and hot water.”
And there it is – vented combustion heating. It heats the room by convection, increases the air’s ability to hold water, and then It pumps the room’s wet air up the chimney.
The proper Orkney peat heated house had a heat exchanger in the back of the fireplace or Iron stove which also ran radiators in other rooms – not every one knows this. As did your Rayburn most likely. This vented moisture in the house wile heating. This cannot be done by modern systems unless the whole house is kept very warm – and then they just require air leakage to do this – terribly inefficient.
”I have lived in a stone cottage where the rayburn provided heating, cooking and hot water.”
And there it is – vented combustion heating. It heats the room by convection, increases the air’s ability to hold water, and then It pumps the room’s wet air up the chimney.
The proper Orkney peat heated house had a heat exchanger in the back of the fireplace or Iron stove which also ran radiators in other rooms – not every one knows this. As did your Rayburn most likely. This vented moisture in the house wile heating. This cannot be done by modern systems unless the whole house is kept very warm – and then they just require air leakage to do this – terribly inefficient.
Pity they couldn’t find some way of coping in the manner of the past. I and most of my age group grew up without central heating. I have lived in a stone cottage where the rayburn provided heating, cooking and hot water. Stone walls, once heated, actually are good at retaining heat. I had a generator, but in the old days the electricity bill was called the electric light bill, because that was all it was used for. In other rural areas farm animals were winter housed in buildings adjacent to the house and provided heat. But it could be that some places are pretty well uninhabitable.
Wind paper makes very little sense anywhere in the world. But less nonsense on Orkney and Shetland than most places. Indeed, Orkney has nearly 700 windturbines and a number of solar farms. It is a net exporter of electricity. Perhaps it is time the Orcadians took back control?
Why does wind power make ‘very little sense’? It’s cheaper than burning fossil fuels, never mind the CO2 benefit. It needs to be somewhere with enough wind and it needs back-up, but so what? I would genuinely appreciate a considered and logical answer.
Again you have answered your own question:-
“IT NEEDS BACK-UP”.
I am not a scientist or engineer, so must you refer to other sources for the figures. But I have studied enough financial examples to know that there are very few places where wind power is economically efficient. The turbines are expensive to build (financially and in carbon terms), expensive to maintain, and operating efficiency in mainland UK is only achieved about 25% of the time – either not enough wind, too much wind, or stopped for maintenance.
Where they are more efficient – yes, Orkney, but also western exposed coasts of parts of the British Isles, northern California Pacific coasts, North Sea, etc, they are often too far from users so loss of efficiency because of cable waste is enormous. This will be overcome to a modest extent when we develop efficient battery storage so we can store the power generated when we can’t use it, until when we need it. The same applies to solar farms which are more efficient but again we can’t as safely and efficiently store the outputs.
Wind is not cheaper than carbon based power; it only looks cheaper than fossil fuels because we have manipulated the charges to make it look so; oil is still probably the most efficient power source economically and its pollution aspects are manageable. It will alas run out though so we we do have to find alternative producers in the next 100 years…
To hope for improvements in battery power is not the way to go. Pumping energy into something and then pumping it out again is very inefficient.
As a non-engineer, your answer was great. I agree that power losses in cables would be huge if you take the electricity from rural to urban. The answer seems to be to have the turbines close to the user – but then you get less wind and, most importantly, you could see them. Nobody wants to see them. The same with nuclear power. Many would have it as long as it was far enough away from them.
As you say, wind is not cheaper than oil. We have opted to put a lot of turbines in the sea. Again, this makes the cost of maintenance ginormous. Just protecting the casings from corrosion is prohibitively expensive. Control modules within the casings are usually air-conditioned, which also uses up a considerable part of the generated energy.
The novel, ‘Doggerland’ shows all of these issues – with a human background. Not fun reading.
One of the odd things about government policy is that it has not encouraged individual power users – down to households – to generate their own power. This was done originally – Dave the Dave Cameron had a small turbine on his roof I believe – but turbines on urban roofs and solar panels ditto would make a useful and much efficient contribution to what is needed just below. Not all a household’s power, but a significant help. That surely is the way to go. But governments do love big projects and grand gestures.
Yep.
A friend of mine had a mini turbine installed on her roof and her next door neighbour played merry hell over it. He constantly complained. He wrote to the Council (frequently/,he called the police ( he was a retired ex-copper) he never stopped. His argument was that it would fall off the roof and damage his car. But my friend reckons he and his wife were jealous of her she her husband anyway.It could be that individual wind turbines could join boundary fences and hedges and shared driveways as a source of neighbour friction.
Sorry to be boring but YES. You have said it. People want everything as long as it doesn’t affect them. The so-called environmentalists want wind turbines but somewhere away from them. The same with nuclear power stations.
Sorry to be boring but YES. You have said it. People want everything as long as it doesn’t affect them. The so-called environmentalists want wind turbines but somewhere away from them. The same with nuclear power stations.
Yep.
A friend of mine had a mini turbine installed on her roof and her next door neighbour played merry hell over it. He constantly complained. He wrote to the Council (frequently/,he called the police ( he was a retired ex-copper) he never stopped. His argument was that it would fall off the roof and damage his car. But my friend reckons he and his wife were jealous of her she her husband anyway.It could be that individual wind turbines could join boundary fences and hedges and shared driveways as a source of neighbour friction.
One of the odd things about government policy is that it has not encouraged individual power users – down to households – to generate their own power. This was done originally – Dave the Dave Cameron had a small turbine on his roof I believe – but turbines on urban roofs and solar panels ditto would make a useful and much efficient contribution to what is needed just below. Not all a household’s power, but a significant help. That surely is the way to go. But governments do love big projects and grand gestures.
An excellent synopsis, thank you.
(Starts:”I am not a scientist….”)
To hope for improvements in battery power is not the way to go. Pumping energy into something and then pumping it out again is very inefficient.
As a non-engineer, your answer was great. I agree that power losses in cables would be huge if you take the electricity from rural to urban. The answer seems to be to have the turbines close to the user – but then you get less wind and, most importantly, you could see them. Nobody wants to see them. The same with nuclear power. Many would have it as long as it was far enough away from them.
As you say, wind is not cheaper than oil. We have opted to put a lot of turbines in the sea. Again, this makes the cost of maintenance ginormous. Just protecting the casings from corrosion is prohibitively expensive. Control modules within the casings are usually air-conditioned, which also uses up a considerable part of the generated energy.
The novel, ‘Doggerland’ shows all of these issues – with a human background. Not fun reading.
An excellent synopsis, thank you.
(Starts:”I am not a scientist….”)
Again you have answered your own question:-
“IT NEEDS BACK-UP”.
I am not a scientist or engineer, so must you refer to other sources for the figures. But I have studied enough financial examples to know that there are very few places where wind power is economically efficient. The turbines are expensive to build (financially and in carbon terms), expensive to maintain, and operating efficiency in mainland UK is only achieved about 25% of the time – either not enough wind, too much wind, or stopped for maintenance.
Where they are more efficient – yes, Orkney, but also western exposed coasts of parts of the British Isles, northern California Pacific coasts, North Sea, etc, they are often too far from users so loss of efficiency because of cable waste is enormous. This will be overcome to a modest extent when we develop efficient battery storage so we can store the power generated when we can’t use it, until when we need it. The same applies to solar farms which are more efficient but again we can’t as safely and efficiently store the outputs.
Wind is not cheaper than carbon based power; it only looks cheaper than fossil fuels because we have manipulated the charges to make it look so; oil is still probably the most efficient power source economically and its pollution aspects are manageable. It will alas run out though so we we do have to find alternative producers in the next 100 years…
I thought there was wind farms there. I thought they was “community” owned and the locals got free power. Proves you can’t believe a word they tell you on Countryfile.
There are, as my first comment said, around 700 wind turbines on the islands grouped in farms, and quite a lot more to come. One would think that the planning process would impose a sort of section 6 planning condition to require free power to be supplied to the local communities, but it seems not (partially I suspect because normal planning rules are suspended for wind and solar farms and associated plant).
The local council is now trying to get permission to build six giant turbines for community benefit, but that is, or was, stuck in the planning system in Edinburgh. You could not make this stuff up. And the thought of your local council anywhere being a power entrepreneur – eek
There are, as my first comment said, around 700 wind turbines on the islands grouped in farms, and quite a lot more to come. One would think that the planning process would impose a sort of section 6 planning condition to require free power to be supplied to the local communities, but it seems not (partially I suspect because normal planning rules are suspended for wind and solar farms and associated plant).
The local council is now trying to get permission to build six giant turbines for community benefit, but that is, or was, stuck in the planning system in Edinburgh. You could not make this stuff up. And the thought of your local council anywhere being a power entrepreneur – eek
Why does wind power make ‘very little sense’? It’s cheaper than burning fossil fuels, never mind the CO2 benefit. It needs to be somewhere with enough wind and it needs back-up, but so what? I would genuinely appreciate a considered and logical answer.
I thought there was wind farms there. I thought they was “community” owned and the locals got free power. Proves you can’t believe a word they tell you on Countryfile.
Wind paper makes very little sense anywhere in the world. But less nonsense on Orkney and Shetland than most places. Indeed, Orkney has nearly 700 windturbines and a number of solar farms. It is a net exporter of electricity. Perhaps it is time the Orcadians took back control?
The recommended temperature of 18-21° bemuses me; if our temperature hits 18 we start to feel uncomfortably hot and we’re normally at 15-16°. I wonder how much is due to modern lifestyles – if I occasionally do manual labour outside for half a day the house seems warm at 12°, but if I had worked at the computer inside it would be intolerable. I suppose those houses were built for people wearing 4 thick layers of clothing working hard outside. Then when they come in at sunset, a roaring wood fire making the house toasty until, by the morning, the cold would drive you out of bed to get active.
As treasurer of our local church, I know that a cold winter month costs £1000 to heat it just for 2 days a week; but what did they do 150 years ago when it was built? Were they just made of tougher stuff, did they have more layers, did they move about? I really don’t know but something strange has happened; it’s not like we live in an ice age and I can’t help but suspect that the solution of generating more energy is not always the right one.
That’s a good point. People were expected to be out all day labouring on the land. Both men and women (but the feminists either dont know that or dont want to publicize it as it goes against the narrative),the cottage was for sleeping in.
It is a good point. You would assume that if 20 degrees was good for this winter, then 19 degrees would be good for next year. And so on.
It is a good point. You would assume that if 20 degrees was good for this winter, then 19 degrees would be good for next year. And so on.
I think you forget one important thing. Have you ever sat in a cold room by yourself waiting for other people to arrive? Then the room fills up and, suddenly, somebody shouts, “Open a window.”
This is because people give off heat – about a quarter of a kilowatt, I think, but it does depend on the individual. So if you have a church full of 80 people, you can’t compare it to when the attendance reduces to 20 people.
That’s a good point. People were expected to be out all day labouring on the land. Both men and women (but the feminists either dont know that or dont want to publicize it as it goes against the narrative),the cottage was for sleeping in.
I think you forget one important thing. Have you ever sat in a cold room by yourself waiting for other people to arrive? Then the room fills up and, suddenly, somebody shouts, “Open a window.”
This is because people give off heat – about a quarter of a kilowatt, I think, but it does depend on the individual. So if you have a church full of 80 people, you can’t compare it to when the attendance reduces to 20 people.
The recommended temperature of 18-21° bemuses me; if our temperature hits 18 we start to feel uncomfortably hot and we’re normally at 15-16°. I wonder how much is due to modern lifestyles – if I occasionally do manual labour outside for half a day the house seems warm at 12°, but if I had worked at the computer inside it would be intolerable. I suppose those houses were built for people wearing 4 thick layers of clothing working hard outside. Then when they come in at sunset, a roaring wood fire making the house toasty until, by the morning, the cold would drive you out of bed to get active.
As treasurer of our local church, I know that a cold winter month costs £1000 to heat it just for 2 days a week; but what did they do 150 years ago when it was built? Were they just made of tougher stuff, did they have more layers, did they move about? I really don’t know but something strange has happened; it’s not like we live in an ice age and I can’t help but suspect that the solution of generating more energy is not always the right one.
Nice to see Cal Flynn writing for Unherd. I enjoyed Islands of Abandonment.
Nice to see Cal Flynn writing for Unherd. I enjoyed Islands of Abandonment.
Let her burn peat.
Let her burn peat.
Anne needn’t worry, there will be no grim environmental consequences from her burning a bit of peat.
Anne needn’t worry, there will be no grim environmental consequences from her burning a bit of peat.
Communal living would solve the problem for many people.
Living alone and heating a house is expensive.
Living with one, two or three others cuts the heating bill by up to 75 percent.
Old women living together, if they have no male partners, should be considered.
That’s horrible. Shades of the workhouse. One of the great things about getting old is being able to leave the enforced gregariousness our society demands from going to nursery,school etc it’s so good to finally be able to shuffle off the demand to be in the crowd
Embrace the sisterhood, sister.
Embrace the sisterhood, sister.
That’s horrible. Shades of the workhouse. One of the great things about getting old is being able to leave the enforced gregariousness our society demands from going to nursery,school etc it’s so good to finally be able to shuffle off the demand to be in the crowd
Communal living would solve the problem for many people.
Living alone and heating a house is expensive.
Living with one, two or three others cuts the heating bill by up to 75 percent.
Old women living together, if they have no male partners, should be considered.
I simply don’t believe a lot of these figures or quotes. I live in the north of Ireland, hardly the tropics, in a century old house. People who talk about £15 a day in hearing are ‘putting on the poor mouth’. Maybe if you lived in a 1970s caravan but otherwise no. This reminds me of all those headline grabbing ‘reports’ by funding hungry NGOs. They just don’t chime with real life. Life is more expensive but it’s still manageable. The notion of a full time joiner and his employed wife not being able to afford heating is ridiculous , just like the nurses at the food banks fairytales
I simply don’t believe a lot of these figures or quotes. I live in the north of Ireland, hardly the tropics, in a century old house. People who talk about £15 a day in hearing are ‘putting on the poor mouth’. Maybe if you lived in a 1970s caravan but otherwise no. This reminds me of all those headline grabbing ‘reports’ by funding hungry NGOs. They just don’t chime with real life. Life is more expensive but it’s still manageable. The notion of a full time joiner and his employed wife not being able to afford heating is ridiculous , just like the nurses at the food banks fairytales
I feel for these folk in England. I really do.
Msybe we should.move to Scotland?
Why do you think even the Romans abandoned the place, despite having under floor heating etc?
What is the point of that comment it seems heartless.
Nonsense. The article is predominantly about Scotland, not England, hence my point.
There’s a lot of virtue signalling going on here, and your reference to heartlessness is not only symptomatic of that, but entirely inaccurate.
Maybe gently pointing out that the article is about Scotland and not England?
Nonsense. The article is predominantly about Scotland, not England, hence my point.
There’s a lot of virtue signalling going on here, and your reference to heartlessness is not only symptomatic of that, but entirely inaccurate.
Maybe gently pointing out that the article is about Scotland and not England?
Why do you think even the Romans abandoned the place, despite having under floor heating etc?
What is the point of that comment it seems heartless.
Msybe we should.move to Scotland?
I feel for these folk in England. I really do.
The Scots could’ve stopped spending so much money and energy trying to be independent from UK and looked to the Nordic countries for housing inspiration. Planners make it impossible to build modern, well-insulated houses, they’re very attached to their “crofts”
The Scots could’ve stopped spending so much money and energy trying to be independent from UK and looked to the Nordic countries for housing inspiration. Planners make it impossible to build modern, well-insulated houses, they’re very attached to their “crofts”
A complex and very important problem. Due to lower western living standards and more expensive enrgy costs, heating is becoming unaffordale for many people, causing misery and sickness.
The traditional solution, practiced enthusiastically in past time periods, are not rejoicing, but kinda work :
Go to the heated (and crowded) pub and drink cheap beer
Go to the heated tea house ad drink tea
Have many people in a tiny house, using human heat
Insist on house heating insulation (at the time, it used to come at the expense of better lighting conditions)
Make smaller houses, though I guess the people experiencing those heating difficulties already live in small houses
A complex and very important problem. Due to lower western living standards and more expensive enrgy costs, heating is becoming unaffordale for many people, causing misery and sickness.
The traditional solution, practiced enthusiastically in past time periods, are not rejoicing, but kinda work :
Go to the heated (and crowded) pub and drink cheap beer
Go to the heated tea house ad drink tea
Have many people in a tiny house, using human heat
Insist on house heating insulation (at the time, it used to come at the expense of better lighting conditions)
Make smaller houses, though I guess the people experiencing those heating difficulties already live in small houses
Well every time I hear on the radio or see on tv someone in Shetland or The Orkneys or all those other Celtic twilight places they all got totally English voices and they say how they,this one,that one,is an artist (usually of the p..s variety) and they collect driftwood off the beach and turn it into sculptures of horses or try make cute mice out of sheeps wool they collect off the gorse bushes and felt,or something. They all come from London boroughs and they tell us how they can live a life of spirituality up there in those far off isles. They ain’t moaning about the cold. These mythical poor people who get trotted out for political purposes. Wouldn’t it be more sensible for them to go and live in a town where they would have access to more facilities and let one of those artists live in their old home. Seeing as they like it.
Well every time I hear on the radio or see on tv someone in Shetland or The Orkneys or all those other Celtic twilight places they all got totally English voices and they say how they,this one,that one,is an artist (usually of the p..s variety) and they collect driftwood off the beach and turn it into sculptures of horses or try make cute mice out of sheeps wool they collect off the gorse bushes and felt,or something. They all come from London boroughs and they tell us how they can live a life of spirituality up there in those far off isles. They ain’t moaning about the cold. These mythical poor people who get trotted out for political purposes. Wouldn’t it be more sensible for them to go and live in a town where they would have access to more facilities and let one of those artists live in their old home. Seeing as they like it.
While reading this article I started wondering: Is this the way things are all year long, up there? Even in Scotland that doesn’t seem likely. And if I’m right about that, then this is a rather tendentious article — by the author citing heating expenses for only the very worst time of year, and never even considering the possibility of people preparing for the cold season; except, I admit, for the few cited who were drying peat.
While reading this article I started wondering: Is this the way things are all year long, up there? Even in Scotland that doesn’t seem likely. And if I’m right about that, then this is a rather tendentious article — by the author citing heating expenses for only the very worst time of year, and never even considering the possibility of people preparing for the cold season; except, I admit, for the few cited who were drying peat.
So let’s get this straight – people living in a cold country complaining that it’s cold. Makes you wonder how humanity got to this point without central heating.
As I said yesterday. You Earth Savers do it at the expense of real people, as you sit in you gas-heated bedsits. Easy to gloat about others as long as it’s not you. The Cold Country you talk about is the country we live in.
Should everyone now move to the southern cities?
I can’t imagine Robbie lives in a bedsit. More likely his tenants do. Buy-to-let Guardianista if ever there was one, I reckon.
Indeed, you should address me as Squire Robbie.
Or his mum’s basement.
Indeed, you should address me as Squire Robbie.
Or his mum’s basement.
Isn’t it a reliance on fossil fuel to generate electricity the cause of its current high price? Or maybe I’m wrong. At £15 per day to heat a small house, that actually sounds rather cheaper than where I live in the sunny south-west during winter – could that be because so much electricity in the Scottish islands is generated by cheap wind power?
Robbie says things which I agree with. People – all people, not just his boomers – are wasteful and they need to learn. I know a family where the parents are about 40 years old with three children. Each child sits in his/her room at night with a computer and each room in the house is heated. This is incredibly wasteful but it is life. How do you train the parents?
Robbie says things which I agree with. People – all people, not just his boomers – are wasteful and they need to learn. I know a family where the parents are about 40 years old with three children. Each child sits in his/her room at night with a computer and each room in the house is heated. This is incredibly wasteful but it is life. How do you train the parents?
Oh no. After all we are going to burn up within ten years, sorry, eight now.
I thought we were going to be burned by acid rain or freeze in a new ice age? This climate malarkey is confusing!
I thought we were going to be burned by acid rain or freeze in a new ice age? This climate malarkey is confusing!
Occupy your Pod, Eat your Bugs. haha
I can’t imagine Robbie lives in a bedsit. More likely his tenants do. Buy-to-let Guardianista if ever there was one, I reckon.
Isn’t it a reliance on fossil fuel to generate electricity the cause of its current high price? Or maybe I’m wrong. At £15 per day to heat a small house, that actually sounds rather cheaper than where I live in the sunny south-west during winter – could that be because so much electricity in the Scottish islands is generated by cheap wind power?
Oh no. After all we are going to burn up within ten years, sorry, eight now.
Occupy your Pod, Eat your Bugs. haha
Inclined to agree, Robbie K. Perhaps I’m lucky my Scottish ancestors decamped for sunnier climes! The problem with houses in Australia, when I grew up, was that they were not built with winter weather in mind – we were freezing for 3-4 months of the year. I well remember the chilblains! It was what it was, you got on with things.
I imagine there are people in the Orkneys who are at work during the day in heated offices. Others might spend time in the local library or shops, and at home you just heat one room. An electric blanket is a very cheap way to have a warm cozy place.
Spot on regarding antipodean houses, Russell, My family moved from my natal Australia to Yorkshire when I was two and we lived in my grandfather’s triple-brick house (heated by open fires). I only found out what chilblains were when we came back to my mother’s homeland, New Zealand, specifically Christchurch.
Spot on regarding antipodean houses, Russell, My family moved from my natal Australia to Yorkshire when I was two and we lived in my grandfather’s triple-brick house (heated by open fires). I only found out what chilblains were when we came back to my mother’s homeland, New Zealand, specifically Christchurch.
This stupid article is using homes made for one kind of heat, retrofitted for another, and failing to work properly. It is like complaining you give your horse methamphetamine but it still will not plow like a tractor.
I agree with your explanation, though not the ‘stupid’ (OTT). Nice simile, gave me a laugh.
I agree with your explanation, though not the ‘stupid’ (OTT). Nice simile, gave me a laugh.
As I said yesterday. You Earth Savers do it at the expense of real people, as you sit in you gas-heated bedsits. Easy to gloat about others as long as it’s not you. The Cold Country you talk about is the country we live in.
Should everyone now move to the southern cities?
Inclined to agree, Robbie K. Perhaps I’m lucky my Scottish ancestors decamped for sunnier climes! The problem with houses in Australia, when I grew up, was that they were not built with winter weather in mind – we were freezing for 3-4 months of the year. I well remember the chilblains! It was what it was, you got on with things.
I imagine there are people in the Orkneys who are at work during the day in heated offices. Others might spend time in the local library or shops, and at home you just heat one room. An electric blanket is a very cheap way to have a warm cozy place.
This stupid article is using homes made for one kind of heat, retrofitted for another, and failing to work properly. It is like complaining you give your horse methamphetamine but it still will not plow like a tractor.
So let’s get this straight – people living in a cold country complaining that it’s cold. Makes you wonder how humanity got to this point without central heating.
.
.
In the 21st century, and given soaring energy costs, does it any longer make any sense to live in the Outer Hebrides an similar places? It’s all very well to call for the saving of such minority communities that have survived for centuries, but it looks like those communities will only be able to survive if they return to 18thC levels of health and life expectancy.
I’ve visited Orkney, and in the main it seemed relatively prosperous. There are pockets of poverty in most centres of population. That doesn’t make it okay, but not sure what the agenda of the writer is in picking out one place above another.
The people are Not prosperous. They are frugal and self sufficient and so require much less. Take a Londoner and stick them there on a local’s income and they could not make it.
There are loads of Londoners up there from choice but no they don’t live on a locals income because they are Artists,or Writers,or Composers. And from my own observation,poor people are rarely frugal and self sufficient which is partly what keeps them poor.
There are loads of Londoners up there from choice but no they don’t live on a locals income because they are Artists,or Writers,or Composers. And from my own observation,poor people are rarely frugal and self sufficient which is partly what keeps them poor.
The people are Not prosperous. They are frugal and self sufficient and so require much less. Take a Londoner and stick them there on a local’s income and they could not make it.
We could take everybody from the rural areas and concentrate them in camps, where they could learn how wicked they’ve been.
Actually – all the indigenous British people deserve this, and I hope it comes soon. And judging by the BBC and Guardian the sentiment is entirely behind such a system.
That is indeed the plan.
Actually – all the indigenous British people deserve this, and I hope it comes soon. And judging by the BBC and Guardian the sentiment is entirely behind such a system.
That is indeed the plan.
I’ve visited Orkney, and in the main it seemed relatively prosperous. There are pockets of poverty in most centres of population. That doesn’t make it okay, but not sure what the agenda of the writer is in picking out one place above another.
We could take everybody from the rural areas and concentrate them in camps, where they could learn how wicked they’ve been.
In the 21st century, and given soaring energy costs, does it any longer make any sense to live in the Outer Hebrides an similar places? It’s all very well to call for the saving of such minority communities that have survived for centuries, but it looks like those communities will only be able to survive if they return to 18thC levels of health and life expectancy.