X Close

A very modern Jesus Revolution Hippies made Christianity a consumer choice

Lonnie Frisbee would “party on Saturday night and preach on Sunday morning”. Credit: Jesus Revolution via IMDB

Lonnie Frisbee would “party on Saturday night and preach on Sunday morning”. Credit: Jesus Revolution via IMDB


March 22, 2023   6 mins

In 1967, a cloud of idealistic young Americans descended on San Francisco’s Haight-Ashbury district for the Summer of Love. At the epicentre of the hippy counterculture, they rejected materialism, conformity and war, instead embracing art, spirituality, community and psychedelic drugs.

From this moment emerged a potent modern revolution in evangelical Christianity, led by one of the Summer of Love’s most compelling refugees. Lonnie Frisbee was a gay, Rasputin-like mystic who believed in the transformative power of LSD; he would “party on Saturday night and preach on Sunday morning”. His story is counter to the Hollywood narrative of that summer in San Francisco — but, in its darkness, it is far more in line with reality.

The streets of Haight-Ashbury were certainly filled by girls with daisies in their hair and guys with outsized flares seeking to “turn on, tune in, drop out,” in the words of Timothy Leary, godfather of the hippy movement. But soon enough, the district’s new residents realised that “turning on” to free love gave rise to a widespread culture of rape; “tuning in” saw a spontaneous movement transform into a commercialised spectacle; and “dropping out” found free-spirited flower children sleeping on park benches. As one pamphlet put it, at the time: “Minds & bodies are being maimed as we watch, a scale model of Vietnam.”

Now, a new film has arrived to both illuminate and further obscure the cultural effect of that summer. Jesus Revolution, starring Kelsey Grammer, portrays one of the most important evolutions in modern Christian history: the “Jesus People” movement (also known as the Jesus Movement or Jesus Freaks). Grammer plays Chuck Smith, the buttoned-up pastor of Calvary Chapel, a struggling Pentecostal church in California’s Orange County, who had a chance meeting with the teenage Lonnie Frisbee. A disaffected hippy, Frisbee was hitchhiking down the California coast after spending the Summer of Love tripping on acid and reading the Bible, having converted to Christianity in a San Francisco commune.

Based on the memoir of Greg Laurie — who worshipped under both Frisbee and Smith in the Seventies, and in turn became a prominent evangelical preacher — Jesus Revolution offers Frisbee a far more prominent role in contemporary Christian history than he is usually given. Yet as with other representations of Frisbee’s life, the film also writes him out at a convenient moment, long before his gruesome, lonely death from AIDS in 1993. His sexuality is ignored.

Frisbee’s legacy is profound, but constantly overlooked — as is the wider movement. Jesus People probably couldn’t have happened at any other time or place than the beaches of Orange County, south of Los Angeles. It was a hotbed of internal migration in the post-war years, as families from the Midwest escaped the farms and factories hollowed out by the Depression. The region’s burgeoning defence industry offered entry into the middle class. Carrying little more than their hopes, faith and conservative values, these new arrivals helped transform the region into the seat of the modern evangelical movement.

These hard-working Americans seem to be at odds with the 19-year-old Frisbee, who attracted young people to Calvary Chapel with devotional music that could have been played on the stages of the future Woodstock. But Smith, according to the film, saw something in him that could bring young people like his daughter back into the fold. They found a new way of doing church, but their union was building on ideas that had started in Pentecostal churches in the immediate aftermath of the Second World War, where renegades insisted — in something that was hotly resisted by church leaders of the day — that instead of waiting for the blessings of the Holy Spirit to work their miracles, believers could experience these wonders “on demand”.

Here was a Christianity that could find not only historical justification, but a home in the spirit of the Sixties and its growing consumer culture. Calvary Chapel was a place to feel good as well as feel God — an evangelical version of the Summer of Love. Frisbee’s magnetic appeal was the spark able to bring the masses to the movement. Described by some as a figure akin to the biblical Samson, Frisbee was uniquely blessed with the ability to speak to the moment, but ultimately brought low by temptation. He was, after all, still preaching to a congregation who were evangelical Christians, in both temperament and values; most of them weren’t hippies. His renegade style and personal life were only going to cut it for so long, and he was eventually cast out — of the movement, and the film.

Jesus Revolution moves onto Greg Laurie’s story here, but in real life a far more interesting character stepped up to fill Frisbee’s shoes. John Wimber, a fellow hippy who was in a Sixties rock’n’roll band called the Paramours — which went on to become the Righteous Brothers, of whom he was the manager — was at that time described as a “beer-guzzling, drug-abusing pop musician, who was converted at the age of 29 while chain-smoking his way through a Quaker-led Bible study”.

Wimber became a central figure at Vineyard, a church affiliated with Calvary Chapel, where he helped mould the energy of Frisbee and the sensibility of Smith into a more far-reaching and coherent Christian revival movement. Today, they’re known as the Charismatic and Neocharismatic movements, or the second and third waves of Pentecostal Christianity, but labels aren’t that important. What matters is the way in which they spread like wildfire through churches in California, and eventually the world.

Wimber’s “power evangelism” — a term first associated with Frisbee, but now largely credited to his heir — is best described by the former rock’n’roll pioneer’s own formulation of doin’ the stuff. “When I worked for the devil, he let me do his stuff,” Wimber said. “But when I came to work for Jesus, they didn’t want to let me do His stuff. To tell you the truth, I joined up to do the stuff!” The stuff is the direct experience of the signs, wonders and miracles of the Holy Spirit promised in the Bible, such as faith healing, prophecy and speaking in tongues. In the old days, you had to go to your preacher for that. The genius of the former hippies was to change that, satisfying the cultural desire to have direct experience with the stuff. As anthropologist T.M. Luhrmann put it: “If God is present in a literal sense, you no longer need to turn to intermediaries to learn what his wishes are. You can ask him yourself.”

This kind of Christianity spoke to cultural icons of the hippy era, up to and including Bob Dylan, who went to Wimber’s Vineyard bible school in 1978, after the singer felt Jesus as a “physical thing” and began to tremble in his hotel room. “The glory of the Lord knocked me down and picked me up,” he later said. But Dylan was a late adopter to what was by then Wimber’s movement, which was drifting a long way from Frisbee’s ideals. The Jesus People movement, which was now Charismatic Christianity, was beginning to look more McDonald’s than McCartney. The direct descendants of this movement can be found in churches such as Hillsong, the Australian megachurch that has recently seen an almighty fall from grace. Earlier this month, it was accused of failing to report $80 million in profit, while its founder, Brian Houston, was alleged to have spent $150,000 on a luxury family holiday in Cancun, as well as many more thousands on “the kind of shopping that would embarrass a Kardashian”. This fully corporatised church would be unrecognisable to even the most disillusioned Haight-Ashbury refugees.

Frisbee has been written out of not only the Jesus Revolution film, but Wimber’s six published books. A gay party animal, even in 2023, is an unappealing saint for the average believer. In Wimber’s version of the revolution, the person who transformed evangelical Christianity with his New Age power evangelism is only briefly mentioned as “the young man”.

Nevertheless, Frisbee and his Jesus People’s profound effect continues to be felt today. At a time when church attendance is in decline in the United States, those more broadly described as Charismatic attend the most. Theologian Dale M. Coulter recently wrote that the two major features of the Charismatic spiritual tradition are “narrative and journey” — hinting at the way evangelical Christianity has found new relevance since the Sixties. They modernised salvation, created personal relationships (He died for me) and turned the Lord into a mate (Jesus, minus the Christ). Waiting around to be saved by God was no longer a thing, because hippy Jesus became a consumer choice — a massive festival, where you can enter the tent for a guy who looks and sounds just like you. Today, the heirs to Frisbee, Smith and Wimber’s movement are largely doin’ the stuff through a one-click checkout; to survive the capitalist age, evangelism has commercialised.

But there are hints of a spiritual revival. The recent Asbury Revival, which attracted tens of thousands of GenZs to a mass pray-in at Kentucky university, proved that there’s a new generation who are still attracted to this Christian message. Young people are regularly attending services, from Lagos to London and New York City, and they’re joined by modern cultural icons, including Premier League players, rappers, and various Kardashian-Jenners. They hold church in commercial theatres, and attract devoted followers, among them TikTok influencers and hardcore conservatives. All are looking for something they can believe in, and a relationship with God that they can control. Most of these believers won’t even know Lonnie Frisbee’s name, but they certainly feel his legacy. And that is, quite simply, that you can be a Christian in a secular world. You can do the stuff and not have to go without. And as Jesus Revolution shows, a lot of the stuff involves telling a good story that doesn’t entirely reflect historical reality.


Elle Hardy is a freelance journalist who’s reported from North Korea and the former Soviet Union. She is the author of Beyond Belief: How Pentecostal Christianity Is Taking Over the World.

ellehardy

Join the discussion


Rejoignez des lecteurs partageant les mêmes idées qui soutiennent notre journalisme en devenant abonnés payants.

Subscribe

To join the discussion in the comments, become a paid subscriber.

Join like minded readers that support our journalism, read unlimited articles and enjoy other subscriber-only benefits.

Subscribe
Subscribe
Notify of
guest

24 Comments
Most Voted
Newest Oldest
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
Elliott Bjorn
Elliott Bjorn
1 year ago

I never even figured out what the article is about, I have not got time to read it again – but I was there for a bit of the scene. Jesus Freaks, Moonies, Krishnas, Brethren of Jesus, and even lived in a commune just down from the Bagwan…. was there shortly after the salad bar was poisoned, haha, were some times. I was in on the building of a Central American Pentecostal Church once.. haha, the article made me nostalgic for the old days – but no mention of Rainbow, and Jesus Camp and Krishna camp…

I was one of the lesser known things of those years, a ‘Road Freak’, one of those guys who live on the road, solitary, hitching up and down, just leading the hard life, mostly broke, sleeping rough six months and year stretches, just out there – mostly in solitude, it is hard…

Freak meant then – someone who could not help themselves from doing that thing… Speed Freak, Acid Freak, Jesus Freak and a few of us Road Freaks… just could not stay off the road – although it has to be the hardest life there is, brutal hard, but after living in a building a wile, making some money – and off I would go… five years out of a pack not counting spells stopped to work and just to get uncoiled, over 50,000 miles hitched… almost always with no home to go to even if I wanted… I had moved to USA, and family were a continent away… just — I do not know what to call it, but just being on the road.

This is the time of the Musical Hair, Godspell, Jesus Christ Superstar. The Church missions for the homeless in the cities, the soup kitchens, the help when needed for the fringe who hit rock bottom – the Regular Churches where who were the safety net for the fringe back them. Before it became a NGO pot of gold – helping the down and out was done by the regular churches everywhere it was Charity…Religion was real then. Respected. People thought someone of faith was a bit better than those without it – you knew they had a moral base – because there are really bad people on the road – it is a hard place.

Too much to say of it – it was a time… But the thing is Religion, and Christianity almost totally, were real then. The fringe respected it – because you had learned a Christian will help you – because they believe in doing it. Even the bad people respected Christians – I guess there is a thing of no atheists in a fox hole…. Life on the fringe has that – life is always on the edge of chaos. It is dangerous, very, very, stressful, scary, tedious, you always are poor so need or want something, and disaster is always hanging over you.And it is not just they give you stuff you needed – they gave you affirmation – they Cared for you – and mostly no one else did (unless they could get something from you).

See – good people must have people in need – that is how they can satisfy their need to do good. And people in need, they have to have the good people to help them. That was a thing to those times – there was a lot of need, and also there was a lot of good, as one is linked to the other. The one who does the good – you can say they get every bit as much as the one who gets the good deed. IT is this humanity, and religion was often associated, it was good.

Modern people – they do not do any good – Government has taken that over. (Government make it all worse though) – wile the Church Charities – they knew the ropes – they helped but did not allow dependence – they helped out of Charity of spirit –

Like I say – Religion was much more real then – you saw its works – you felt its goodness, you took spirit from it even of you were not religious, you respected a religious believer.

Say you are really down – and some stranger just walks up and gives you $5 – out of the blue (I Never begged – but people could sense it it seemed – and I always got through) You cannot believe how that picked you up – it satisfied a need, you could get food or some drink that you needed – but what was as much was that this person – they saw you, and they reached into their wallet and gave you something they would rather have kept. (beggars in the cities asking for change – I do not give to them, they are parasites really) You were seen as a person, you just had what was affection in a harder than you can believe world – you were the recipient of goodness – it means a lot.

It is weird living down and out. Right away you realize you have disappeared! You have vanished – no one ever catches your eye, they look to your side, or past you, but never at you. You feel like a ghost. Then you never can go into buildings because you have no money to afford to be in one… It is like a Si-Fi movie where no one can see you – you see them – but you have become invisible. It is Weird – and it is hard, and you just watch the world and are an outsider, just out there with nothing to do, nothing to dispel discomfort and boredom and loneliness, and the constant stress of that life…

Life on the fringe – it is nothing like real life. And religion becomes real… more so then. Cults always used ‘Love Bombing’ to recrut. Life is so hard fringe – the members all focus on you, give you affection, and it is like heroin if you are worn down by the hard life…. Also so many people down and out – they never in their life have had love – no love from parents, or community – it is a hard world.

Religion – it was very different. It was good, it was really the most good thing out there. It was a code, it was to know no matter how low you had hit – a Christian still thinks you a person (instead of a prey animal like some on the fringe do…)

I am just rambling on because I have to go off now – but I have seen a lot of life, a lot of countries, peoples, craziness, crazy things, hard times, broken people, terrible things…. and religion – it is more real the further down in life you go because you see it in people – and see the lack of it in people just as clearly….and always – the religious leaning are better, because you see the real person when you are vulnerable – or they are….and people with a Christian spirit are just better people – and you see it when times are hard and you are helpless…….

Those were some times though…..

Simon Blanchard
Simon Blanchard
1 year ago
Reply to  Elliott Bjorn

Some revealing background info there. Although I suspect, also some toxic nostalgia. Worthy of an upvote.

N Satori
N Satori
1 year ago
Reply to  Elliott Bjorn

Yep, I was right! Elliott Bjorn is Sanford Artzen. All the main traits are there:
The “I’ve been everywhere man” themeThe rambling, solipsistic narrative posing as mere btl commentThe story-teller ambition (always hoping for an enraptured audience)The refusal to restrict himself to a couple of dozen words to make his point when he can use a thousand

Last edited 1 year ago by N Satori
Richard Pearse
Richard Pearse
1 year ago
Reply to  N Satori

Ah yes!! NOW I remember that guy – Sanford Artzen – same schtick. Well put N Satori!!

Richard Pearse
Richard Pearse
1 year ago
Reply to  N Satori

Ah yes!! NOW I remember that guy – Sanford Artzen – same schtick. Well put N Satori!!

Dermot O'Sullivan
Dermot O'Sullivan
1 year ago
Reply to  Elliott Bjorn

Thank you – more interesting than the article. Serious comment: would you consider writing a memoir of your experiences? If you go down a level from the helicopter overview I think it would make compelling reading. You will have to do something about those dots though.
.. is a collapsed colon
Yours faithfully,
Dotty….

R Wright
R Wright
1 year ago
Reply to  Elliott Bjorn

I always enjoy your esoteric posts Mr Bjorn. Within the post-fried synapse words is a kernel of truth.

Warren Trees
Warren Trees
1 year ago
Reply to  R Wright

Agreed. The kernal here is to those who wish to see the end of Christianity. A post-Christian world would be a very, very dark place.

Last edited 1 year ago by Warren Trees
jane baker
jane baker
1 year ago
Reply to  Warren Trees

We are already in it.

jane baker
jane baker
1 year ago
Reply to  Warren Trees

We are already in it.

Warren Trees
Warren Trees
1 year ago
Reply to  R Wright

Agreed. The kernal here is to those who wish to see the end of Christianity. A post-Christian world would be a very, very dark place.

Last edited 1 year ago by Warren Trees
jane baker
jane baker
1 year ago
Reply to  Elliott Bjorn

You can bore for the universe can’t you. It was the people like you who destabilized and destroyed that variety “goodness” you recall so fondly. And this,we bourgeois people just walk past without “seeing the person”. Well.a few months ago I recalled that as I passed a beggar so I spoke to him,and -never again. He angrily told me I was nosy and just wanted him to tell me salacious stories of the sexual abuse he’d endured as a child and I was too lazy to go to the cash machine that was just over there. He definitely did not want me to be his new best friend or to engage or interact with me on any level. Which actually was fine with me and if I hadn’t just once tried to be “caring” this wouldn’t have happened. I’m not saying other people shouldn’t ,if they have warm personalities and engaging natures im just saying this “you just walk by” garbage is one more guilt trip.

Michael Cavanaugh
Michael Cavanaugh
1 year ago
Reply to  Elliott Bjorn

Ralph Ellison: The Invisible Man

Paul Boire
Paul Boire
1 year ago
Reply to  Elliott Bjorn

Thankyou. You showed “the road” to me. Also the preciousness and fragility of that communion that is the interacting world, a point Dr Jordan Peterson makes tellingly.
I’m a Catholic and indeed hold that Catholicism is THE church founded by Christ with its apostolic charisms. So the sola scriptura freelance evangelical dance while I do not question its oftimes sincerity, remains in a post reformation disconnect from Christ present among us in His sacraments.
And your comments brought Mother Theresa and her Sisters of Charity to mind. She would enfold a dying street “vagrant” in arms of love as they died.
And its fascinating and horrifying to watch the west literally lose its mind as it now is being hollowed out in the post Christian reality of stark confusion and indeed madness. What is a woman?
From the sanity of Aristotle and Aquinas’ “Final Cause”, the end or purpose of things we arrive at Aristotle’s “Unmoved Mover”, that necessary ground to all being and change, Love. Why we are moved in our depths towards truth, beauty and the good a the very depths of our souls.
Thanks for putting us in touch with the wandering lost spirit seeking and sometimes finding love on the road.

Simon Blanchard
Simon Blanchard
1 year ago
Reply to  Elliott Bjorn

Some revealing background info there. Although I suspect, also some toxic nostalgia. Worthy of an upvote.

N Satori
N Satori
1 year ago
Reply to  Elliott Bjorn

Yep, I was right! Elliott Bjorn is Sanford Artzen. All the main traits are there:
The “I’ve been everywhere man” themeThe rambling, solipsistic narrative posing as mere btl commentThe story-teller ambition (always hoping for an enraptured audience)The refusal to restrict himself to a couple of dozen words to make his point when he can use a thousand

Last edited 1 year ago by N Satori
Dermot O'Sullivan
Dermot O'Sullivan
1 year ago
Reply to  Elliott Bjorn

Thank you – more interesting than the article. Serious comment: would you consider writing a memoir of your experiences? If you go down a level from the helicopter overview I think it would make compelling reading. You will have to do something about those dots though.
.. is a collapsed colon
Yours faithfully,
Dotty….

R Wright
R Wright
1 year ago
Reply to  Elliott Bjorn

I always enjoy your esoteric posts Mr Bjorn. Within the post-fried synapse words is a kernel of truth.

jane baker
jane baker
1 year ago
Reply to  Elliott Bjorn

You can bore for the universe can’t you. It was the people like you who destabilized and destroyed that variety “goodness” you recall so fondly. And this,we bourgeois people just walk past without “seeing the person”. Well.a few months ago I recalled that as I passed a beggar so I spoke to him,and -never again. He angrily told me I was nosy and just wanted him to tell me salacious stories of the sexual abuse he’d endured as a child and I was too lazy to go to the cash machine that was just over there. He definitely did not want me to be his new best friend or to engage or interact with me on any level. Which actually was fine with me and if I hadn’t just once tried to be “caring” this wouldn’t have happened. I’m not saying other people shouldn’t ,if they have warm personalities and engaging natures im just saying this “you just walk by” garbage is one more guilt trip.

Michael Cavanaugh
Michael Cavanaugh
1 year ago
Reply to  Elliott Bjorn

Ralph Ellison: The Invisible Man

Paul Boire
Paul Boire
1 year ago
Reply to  Elliott Bjorn

Thankyou. You showed “the road” to me. Also the preciousness and fragility of that communion that is the interacting world, a point Dr Jordan Peterson makes tellingly.
I’m a Catholic and indeed hold that Catholicism is THE church founded by Christ with its apostolic charisms. So the sola scriptura freelance evangelical dance while I do not question its oftimes sincerity, remains in a post reformation disconnect from Christ present among us in His sacraments.
And your comments brought Mother Theresa and her Sisters of Charity to mind. She would enfold a dying street “vagrant” in arms of love as they died.
And its fascinating and horrifying to watch the west literally lose its mind as it now is being hollowed out in the post Christian reality of stark confusion and indeed madness. What is a woman?
From the sanity of Aristotle and Aquinas’ “Final Cause”, the end or purpose of things we arrive at Aristotle’s “Unmoved Mover”, that necessary ground to all being and change, Love. Why we are moved in our depths towards truth, beauty and the good a the very depths of our souls.
Thanks for putting us in touch with the wandering lost spirit seeking and sometimes finding love on the road.

Elliott Bjorn
Elliott Bjorn
1 year ago

I never even figured out what the article is about, I have not got time to read it again – but I was there for a bit of the scene. Jesus Freaks, Moonies, Krishnas, Brethren of Jesus, and even lived in a commune just down from the Bagwan…. was there shortly after the salad bar was poisoned, haha, were some times. I was in on the building of a Central American Pentecostal Church once.. haha, the article made me nostalgic for the old days – but no mention of Rainbow, and Jesus Camp and Krishna camp…

I was one of the lesser known things of those years, a ‘Road Freak’, one of those guys who live on the road, solitary, hitching up and down, just leading the hard life, mostly broke, sleeping rough six months and year stretches, just out there – mostly in solitude, it is hard…

Freak meant then – someone who could not help themselves from doing that thing… Speed Freak, Acid Freak, Jesus Freak and a few of us Road Freaks… just could not stay off the road – although it has to be the hardest life there is, brutal hard, but after living in a building a wile, making some money – and off I would go… five years out of a pack not counting spells stopped to work and just to get uncoiled, over 50,000 miles hitched… almost always with no home to go to even if I wanted… I had moved to USA, and family were a continent away… just — I do not know what to call it, but just being on the road.

This is the time of the Musical Hair, Godspell, Jesus Christ Superstar. The Church missions for the homeless in the cities, the soup kitchens, the help when needed for the fringe who hit rock bottom – the Regular Churches where who were the safety net for the fringe back them. Before it became a NGO pot of gold – helping the down and out was done by the regular churches everywhere it was Charity…Religion was real then. Respected. People thought someone of faith was a bit better than those without it – you knew they had a moral base – because there are really bad people on the road – it is a hard place.

Too much to say of it – it was a time… But the thing is Religion, and Christianity almost totally, were real then. The fringe respected it – because you had learned a Christian will help you – because they believe in doing it. Even the bad people respected Christians – I guess there is a thing of no atheists in a fox hole…. Life on the fringe has that – life is always on the edge of chaos. It is dangerous, very, very, stressful, scary, tedious, you always are poor so need or want something, and disaster is always hanging over you.And it is not just they give you stuff you needed – they gave you affirmation – they Cared for you – and mostly no one else did (unless they could get something from you).

See – good people must have people in need – that is how they can satisfy their need to do good. And people in need, they have to have the good people to help them. That was a thing to those times – there was a lot of need, and also there was a lot of good, as one is linked to the other. The one who does the good – you can say they get every bit as much as the one who gets the good deed. IT is this humanity, and religion was often associated, it was good.

Modern people – they do not do any good – Government has taken that over. (Government make it all worse though) – wile the Church Charities – they knew the ropes – they helped but did not allow dependence – they helped out of Charity of spirit –

Like I say – Religion was much more real then – you saw its works – you felt its goodness, you took spirit from it even of you were not religious, you respected a religious believer.

Say you are really down – and some stranger just walks up and gives you $5 – out of the blue (I Never begged – but people could sense it it seemed – and I always got through) You cannot believe how that picked you up – it satisfied a need, you could get food or some drink that you needed – but what was as much was that this person – they saw you, and they reached into their wallet and gave you something they would rather have kept. (beggars in the cities asking for change – I do not give to them, they are parasites really) You were seen as a person, you just had what was affection in a harder than you can believe world – you were the recipient of goodness – it means a lot.

It is weird living down and out. Right away you realize you have disappeared! You have vanished – no one ever catches your eye, they look to your side, or past you, but never at you. You feel like a ghost. Then you never can go into buildings because you have no money to afford to be in one… It is like a Si-Fi movie where no one can see you – you see them – but you have become invisible. It is Weird – and it is hard, and you just watch the world and are an outsider, just out there with nothing to do, nothing to dispel discomfort and boredom and loneliness, and the constant stress of that life…

Life on the fringe – it is nothing like real life. And religion becomes real… more so then. Cults always used ‘Love Bombing’ to recrut. Life is so hard fringe – the members all focus on you, give you affection, and it is like heroin if you are worn down by the hard life…. Also so many people down and out – they never in their life have had love – no love from parents, or community – it is a hard world.

Religion – it was very different. It was good, it was really the most good thing out there. It was a code, it was to know no matter how low you had hit – a Christian still thinks you a person (instead of a prey animal like some on the fringe do…)

I am just rambling on because I have to go off now – but I have seen a lot of life, a lot of countries, peoples, craziness, crazy things, hard times, broken people, terrible things…. and religion – it is more real the further down in life you go because you see it in people – and see the lack of it in people just as clearly….and always – the religious leaning are better, because you see the real person when you are vulnerable – or they are….and people with a Christian spirit are just better people – and you see it when times are hard and you are helpless…….

Those were some times though…..

Steve Murray
Steve Murray
1 year ago

I was trying to think of a throw-away remark about Frisbee, but couldn’t be bothered in The End…
…which segues nicely with The Doors and the stage presence of Jim Morrison; echoes of messianic evangelism right there.
That era occurred within my young memory, followed by its dissipation via the breakup of the Beatles, the three day week (in the UK) and punk, a typically British antithesis to all the drug-fuelled nonsense that got spewed out during the late 60s. The Christianity aspect is interesting though, as an attempt by young people to connect more directly with a value system rather than through the established churches, but still needing its so-called “charismatic” leaders to push it into the spotlight.
I personally find the “charismatic” aspect off-putting; the whole cult of “personality” feeds into the current obsession with celebrity. My response to these types are to “turn off, tune out and drop in” to my local.

Last edited 1 year ago by Steve Murray
jane baker
jane baker
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve Murray

How can you have a “value system” that presumably means virtues like honesty,reliability,kindness and financial managing of one’s own resources so as not to depend on or cheat other people when your ‘faith’ also allows you to take drugs,engage in promiscuous sex (ok it doesn’t hurt you,it harms a lot of your partners,but still as theyre only dozy whores it doesn’t matter),drink copious amounts of alcohol,be cruel and nasty to honest people who stand in your way etc. I just do not ‘get” this version of faith. These people destroyed the world I was born into that they were dismantling by their cultural influence by the time I was about 10. And guess what now they’re all old and crumbly they’re writing songs about their wonderful partner they’ve been married to for 50 years and making tv shows about rambles in the Yorkshire Dales oh very rock and roll. But these people DESTROYED LIVES

Michael Cavanaugh
Michael Cavanaugh
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve Murray

“My response to these types are to “turn off, tune out and drop in” to my local.. . ” and maybe share a pint with Jesus & Mo . . .? 😉

jane baker
jane baker
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve Murray

How can you have a “value system” that presumably means virtues like honesty,reliability,kindness and financial managing of one’s own resources so as not to depend on or cheat other people when your ‘faith’ also allows you to take drugs,engage in promiscuous sex (ok it doesn’t hurt you,it harms a lot of your partners,but still as theyre only dozy whores it doesn’t matter),drink copious amounts of alcohol,be cruel and nasty to honest people who stand in your way etc. I just do not ‘get” this version of faith. These people destroyed the world I was born into that they were dismantling by their cultural influence by the time I was about 10. And guess what now they’re all old and crumbly they’re writing songs about their wonderful partner they’ve been married to for 50 years and making tv shows about rambles in the Yorkshire Dales oh very rock and roll. But these people DESTROYED LIVES

Michael Cavanaugh
Michael Cavanaugh
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve Murray

“My response to these types are to “turn off, tune out and drop in” to my local.. . ” and maybe share a pint with Jesus & Mo . . .? 😉

Steve Murray
Steve Murray
1 year ago

I was trying to think of a throw-away remark about Frisbee, but couldn’t be bothered in The End…
…which segues nicely with The Doors and the stage presence of Jim Morrison; echoes of messianic evangelism right there.
That era occurred within my young memory, followed by its dissipation via the breakup of the Beatles, the three day week (in the UK) and punk, a typically British antithesis to all the drug-fuelled nonsense that got spewed out during the late 60s. The Christianity aspect is interesting though, as an attempt by young people to connect more directly with a value system rather than through the established churches, but still needing its so-called “charismatic” leaders to push it into the spotlight.
I personally find the “charismatic” aspect off-putting; the whole cult of “personality” feeds into the current obsession with celebrity. My response to these types are to “turn off, tune out and drop in” to my local.

Last edited 1 year ago by Steve Murray
AC Harper
AC Harper
1 year ago

There’s an idea that the dominant social concept of narrative in Europe is ‘there and back again’ – or the Hero’s Quest including the return to the village.
In the USA the social concept is ‘road trip’ where if you are unhappy where you are you move on to greener pastures.
Perhaps ‘moving on’ to a life after death is more compelling in the USA? And there will be plenty of story tellers helping with that journey.

AC Harper
AC Harper
1 year ago

There’s an idea that the dominant social concept of narrative in Europe is ‘there and back again’ – or the Hero’s Quest including the return to the village.
In the USA the social concept is ‘road trip’ where if you are unhappy where you are you move on to greener pastures.
Perhaps ‘moving on’ to a life after death is more compelling in the USA? And there will be plenty of story tellers helping with that journey.

LCarey Rowland
LCarey Rowland
1 year ago

The bottom line is: In world history, there is only one person who died, and then lived to tell about it. I’m going with him. Jesus is Lord.
Do you want to live forever? Jesus is the way; that’s true and eternal life awaits you if you are willing to go with him, by acknowledging his victory over our worst enemy, death itself.

LCarey Rowland
LCarey Rowland
1 year ago

The bottom line is: In world history, there is only one person who died, and then lived to tell about it. I’m going with him. Jesus is Lord.
Do you want to live forever? Jesus is the way; that’s true and eternal life awaits you if you are willing to go with him, by acknowledging his victory over our worst enemy, death itself.

Derek Smith
Derek Smith
1 year ago

Is the author upset at the commercialisation of evangelical Christianity, or that it attempts to police its boundaries?

Mark M Breza
Mark M Breza
1 year ago
Reply to  Derek Smith

Then why is she blaming the anti commercialized hippies ?
More like the fall-in -line Di$$$co Punks of Less Than Zero OC
Evangelicals like to look good & make money

jane baker
jane baker
1 year ago
Reply to  Mark M Breza

The anti-consumer Hippies are to.blame for the Total Control Society we are now entering. We are not totally in yet. They are still finally polishing up the software or whatever the current term is. Its ironic because those Hippies thought that the very new science of computer language would create a way to bypass the power and communication structures of control. In fact I recall the mid -1980s when the internet started up and email was new,how exciting was that,I wasn’t involved in any of it,I remember hearing in real life as well as in media,about the freedom of the alternative uncontrolled web world and thinking THEY won’t let that go on for long. Not if it can be taxed. And now from those hippies creating computer languages for an alternative society we are now on the brink of a totally controllable society.

jane baker
jane baker
1 year ago
Reply to  Mark M Breza

The anti-consumer Hippies are to.blame for the Total Control Society we are now entering. We are not totally in yet. They are still finally polishing up the software or whatever the current term is. Its ironic because those Hippies thought that the very new science of computer language would create a way to bypass the power and communication structures of control. In fact I recall the mid -1980s when the internet started up and email was new,how exciting was that,I wasn’t involved in any of it,I remember hearing in real life as well as in media,about the freedom of the alternative uncontrolled web world and thinking THEY won’t let that go on for long. Not if it can be taxed. And now from those hippies creating computer languages for an alternative society we are now on the brink of a totally controllable society.

Mark M Breza
Mark M Breza
1 year ago
Reply to  Derek Smith

Then why is she blaming the anti commercialized hippies ?
More like the fall-in -line Di$$$co Punks of Less Than Zero OC
Evangelicals like to look good & make money

Derek Smith
Derek Smith
1 year ago

Is the author upset at the commercialisation of evangelical Christianity, or that it attempts to police its boundaries?

Disputatio Ineptias
Disputatio Ineptias
1 year ago

Probably would have been good to note that Frisbee was played by Jonathan Roumie who has taken the crowd-funded series, The Chosen, by storm. Kelsey Grammer is perhaps a more recognizable name, but Roumie is the one who will bring The Chosen crowd to the theaters to see this film.

Mark M Breza
Mark M Breza
1 year ago

“My soul is chosen by God so I can do anything with my body.”
Not exactly a Catholic Jesus idea.
More like, “How can we make a bunch of money, etc & still go to heaven !” ” Oh be Chosen already” !o!

Last edited 1 year ago by Mark M Breza
jane baker
jane baker
1 year ago
Reply to  Mark M Breza

Sounds more like Extreme Calvinism to me. I was born as one of God’s Elect and am predestined Saved thus even if I live a life of sexual transgression and murder it doesn’t matter. My late Father was,I’m quick to state a good,kind,gentle and cultured man who took care of his family but he KNEW he was one of the 144K.Gods Elect,all who would be saved from humanity to praise God forever. Whether my Dad was right or wrong only God knows but I mention this to show how there are people who believe this kind of Iam saved idea. Luckily my Dad did not do bad things.

jane baker
jane baker
1 year ago
Reply to  Mark M Breza

Sounds more like Extreme Calvinism to me. I was born as one of God’s Elect and am predestined Saved thus even if I live a life of sexual transgression and murder it doesn’t matter. My late Father was,I’m quick to state a good,kind,gentle and cultured man who took care of his family but he KNEW he was one of the 144K.Gods Elect,all who would be saved from humanity to praise God forever. Whether my Dad was right or wrong only God knows but I mention this to show how there are people who believe this kind of Iam saved idea. Luckily my Dad did not do bad things.

Mark M Breza
Mark M Breza
1 year ago

“My soul is chosen by God so I can do anything with my body.”
Not exactly a Catholic Jesus idea.
More like, “How can we make a bunch of money, etc & still go to heaven !” ” Oh be Chosen already” !o!

Last edited 1 year ago by Mark M Breza
Disputatio Ineptias
Disputatio Ineptias
1 year ago

Probably would have been good to note that Frisbee was played by Jonathan Roumie who has taken the crowd-funded series, The Chosen, by storm. Kelsey Grammer is perhaps a more recognizable name, but Roumie is the one who will bring The Chosen crowd to the theaters to see this film.

Mark Duffett
Mark Duffett
1 year ago

No doubt there is a lot of truth here, but talk about leaving stuff out. It’s a bit incongruous to go on about Frisbee having been written out of the histories, yet not even mention the Biblical basis for the charismatic ‘stuff’, Acts chapter 2. It’s right there in the other name for the movement: Pentecostal.

Mark Duffett
Mark Duffett
1 year ago

No doubt there is a lot of truth here, but talk about leaving stuff out. It’s a bit incongruous to go on about Frisbee having been written out of the histories, yet not even mention the Biblical basis for the charismatic ‘stuff’, Acts chapter 2. It’s right there in the other name for the movement: Pentecostal.

leculdesac suburbia
leculdesac suburbia
1 year ago

Speaking of Rasputin, I hope Roumie goes on to play him in an updated version of Alan Rickman’s portray in 1996.
I’m assuming Roumie is urgently trying not to get typecast as his role in the Chosen weaves on for the next two years while he’s starred in this. He refers to himself humorously as “TV Jesus” and is very religious, and as a result I suspect is getting sick of being on the receiving end of millions of faith-starved people projecting their Jesus craving onto him.
I hope for his sake he gets a dark role ASAP, because he’s done a fabulous job understanding “the motivation” underlying a Jesus–he basically plays him like a Buddhist monk, and the underlying light humor of Roumie’s Jesus is vital to the success of the show.
He needs to break the spell of obsessed fans and play Charles Manson….or Rasputin. Show what it’s like for people to become obsessed with handsome religious “leader” who’s intrinsically evil–it’d be a powerful lesson for many people.

leculdesac suburbia
leculdesac suburbia
1 year ago

Speaking of Rasputin, I hope Roumie goes on to play him in an updated version of Alan Rickman’s portray in 1996.
I’m assuming Roumie is urgently trying not to get typecast as his role in the Chosen weaves on for the next two years while he’s starred in this. He refers to himself humorously as “TV Jesus” and is very religious, and as a result I suspect is getting sick of being on the receiving end of millions of faith-starved people projecting their Jesus craving onto him.
I hope for his sake he gets a dark role ASAP, because he’s done a fabulous job understanding “the motivation” underlying a Jesus–he basically plays him like a Buddhist monk, and the underlying light humor of Roumie’s Jesus is vital to the success of the show.
He needs to break the spell of obsessed fans and play Charles Manson….or Rasputin. Show what it’s like for people to become obsessed with handsome religious “leader” who’s intrinsically evil–it’d be a powerful lesson for many people.