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The Tories have betrayed the Caravan Dream Existential terror now grips Middle England

Not Bill Gates (In Pictures Ltd./Corbis via Getty Images)

Not Bill Gates (In Pictures Ltd./Corbis via Getty Images)


February 23, 2023   6 mins

The anarchist commentator Michael Malice observed that conservatism is “progressivism driving the speed limit”. And perhaps he was right. When it comes to rounding savagely on your most loyal voters, the Labour Party is the undisputed trailblazer — but the Conservative Party is making a valiant effort to catch up. Nowhere is this more pungently symbolised than in the recent Tory crackdown on that potent aspirational feature of home life in Middle England: the wood-burning stove.

But this isn’t wholly the Tories’ fault. Rather, it’s another omen of the ongoing transformation that began with de-industrialisation: the end of fossil-fuel-era mass prosperity. This is now percolating well beyond the “left-behind”, and snapping at the heels of the next tier up the ladder: the Caravan Dreamers.

You’ll find them out in force on the A1, early on Saturday and Sunday mornings. Usually, they’re transporting a secondary mode of transport — such as mountain bikes or vintage cars — to another location, in order to enjoy a transport-based leisure activity. By and large, Caravan Dreamers are practical, decent people. They’re pub-goers and dog owners. They buy gifts in garden centres. They own small businesses and shops. They pick up litter. The Caravan Dream is a modest one: to enjoy both relative independence and relative comfort, at an affordable price point. It’s an autonomy made sweeter by being saved for weekends and bank holidays, and it doesn’t matter if earning the money to fund the Caravan Dream rules out actually being rootless. That feeling of freedom, for a few hours of a weekend, offsets the real-world effort needed to sustain it.

London is, of course, a different country. But out in actual England, in my anecdotal observation, Caravan Dreamers are well-represented among the 1.5 million UK households with open fires and wood-burning stoves. And it’s no wonder — the woodburner conveys something like the same aspiration to affordable independence and comfort, with just the slightest edge of one-upping your neighbour. But as the climate debate has grown shriller, the dream of affordable independence has begun to take on an anxious edge.

Britain’s carbon emissions have halved since 1990, in part by shifting away from coal-burning power stations — but also, in part, at the expense of the industrial working class. For a major contributor to this first phase of decarbonisation was in fact de-industrialisation. Since 1990, British manufacturing’s share of GDP has collapsed from 16.5% to 8.8%, as carbon-intensive industries departed for countries such as China, with lower labour costs and less stringent environmental laws.

But Phase One decarbonisation wasn’t really decarbonisation in an absolute sense. Instead of making carbon-intensive consumer goods in Britain, now we just import them from China, where carbon emissions per capita have climbed even as they’ve fallen in the developed West. Worldwide, we’re generating more greenhouse gas than ever. So the pressure is on to cut deeper. But we can’t do anything about China building coal-fired power stations, and at home we’ve picked all the low-hanging fruit. How to make further reductions? The obvious, uncomfortable answer is that reducing emissions means people are going to have to start doing without nice things.

But whose nice things are next for the chop? If the Caravan Dreamers are growing restive, it’s because they harbour the suspicion that the answer is: them. Towing the caravan anywhere is getting painfully expensive. Further down the line lurks a ban on new internal combustion engines. How far can an EV with a limited range tow a caravan? How long until vintage car rallies are banned?

And the threatened loss of freedom goes deeper still. If owning a woodburner afforded the reassuring prospect of being able to stay warm even in the event of power cuts or rationing, the threat of government restrictions on their use brings with it a suffocating sense of avenues closing off for the type of modestly comfortable independence, long cherished as core to the Caravan Dream. In its place looms the panicky feeling of having even provisional, partly illusory freedoms forcibly stripped away, replaced by a centrally surveilled and unaccountably-administered condition of helplessness.

And if politics feels so bitter and volatile at present, this is at least partly because Caravan Dreamers are Tory at a cellular level, much as the industrial working class was (and to a great extent still is) Labour. Theirs is not the Toryism of high finance, or large land-holdings, or a manicured pile in the Cotswolds. It’s the shopkeeper Toryism that produced Margaret Thatcher — and, with her, the seeds of its own demise.

The slow hollowing-out and financialisaton of Britain that Thatcher inaugurated has already delivered “Brexitland” populism, as well as the Left’s turn away from blighted post-industrial regions in favour of an exciting new coalition of students, identitarian “communities” and higher-rate taxpayers. Now, the Caravan Dreamers suspect their interests, too, have been sidelined by the Tories who once championed them.

They have some grounds for thinking so. After more than a decade of Tory rule, British life has transformed radically in a number of ways that are anathema to the Caravan Dream. This is structural: it is no longer possible to deliver the growth that underpins middle-class British prosperity without degrading the middle-class British way of life. Until relatively recently, the Tories squared this circle by externalising the pain overseas or among non-Tory voters, but (notably in the housing debate) this approach is now causing widening fissures within the Tory coalition.

My staunchly Tory constituency was outraged last year, for example, when the then Transport Secretary Grant Shapps waved through Luton Airport expansion plans. As a result, passenger planes have been re-routed over our heads, several times an hour, at about 5,000 feet (this is quite loud). Airport expansion, is, he insisted, “core to boosting global connectivity” and perfectly compatible with “our commitment to the environment”. So you can perhaps forgive me for laughing hollowly when I learned that Shapps was to be the new Minister for Net Zero, tasked with deciding who flourishes, and who takes the hit, as the British public are alternately shoved and cajoled toward this goal.

Given his previous approach in the Transport brief, we can expect Shapps (himself a keen amateur pilot) to support the aviation industry and doubtless seek savings elsewhere. And this is where we begin to see the widening fissures in the Tory coalition, and the reason Caravan Dreamers are growing mutinous.

According to one 2020 study, half of aviation emissions are caused by “super-emitters” representing just 1% of the world’s population. Bill Gates, for instance, is the author of How To Avoid Climate Disaster but also owns four private jets worth $200m, and admits that travelling by jet is his “guilty pleasure”. If aviation is to be supported, even as wood-burners come under scrutiny, from a Caravan Dreamer’s perspective the inference is clear: that, much as we saw after the Great Crash and again during Covid, we were not in fact “all in this together”.

You don’t have to be a basement-dwelling internet addict to see the contours emerging. The couple who run my local post office are quintessential Caravan Dreamers, and in their shop window, alongside local concert and church group announcements, there’s a lurid yellow-and-black poster warning about the danger to individual freedom posed by an elite plan to replace cash with digital currency. Nothing could capture more neatly the rising sense of existential terror bubbling under post-pandemic small-town Britain.

This is the mood powering increasingly prevalent and colourful concerns about surveillance, climate change, microchips, Klaus Schwab, digital ID and so on. It’s also behind increasingly frequent eruptions of public dissent, for example in the protests last weekend against Oxford’s proposed “15-minute city” scheme. And while detractors may mock rising popular objections to this diffuse cluster of changes as far-Right, conspiracy-mongering, or just straight-up lunacy, much of it is factually wrong but still directionally accurate.

For while the details are often overblown, the sense of being downgraded from yeoman to serf is not baseless. Justin Trudeau ended the trucker protests by freezing protesters’ bank accounts; it should already be obvious that a fully-digital currency would grant wildly extensive new powers of surveillance and control to any government that adopted it. What might a government do with such powers? Well, just a few days ago, the Times reported on a new University of Leeds study suggesting that “rationing has been neglected as a climate change mitigation policy option”. To force further reduction in emissions per capita, the authors suggested, governments should impose artificial scarcity, then ration carbon-intensive goods such as long-haul travel, petrol or meat. No one in government is proposing such a scheme at present, but a middle class who recently learned just how much more flexible lockdown rules were for the right people will already be taking an educated guess at how climate rationing might play out.

If you’re a Caravan Dreamer, chances are you ration nice things already, and view the free enjoyment of that ration as your hard-earned right. In that scenario, assent to “15-minute cities” threatens a net loss of prized personal autonomy, with no corresponding improvement in quality of life. And, most likely, it also means a whole new set of class stratifications: just this week, shoppers in Tesco, Asda and Morrisons were outraged to discover vegetables rationed due to unseasonable cold in Spain and Morocco.

I’m far from being a climate denialist. I suspect most of us will get used to fewer nice things, as the century goes on. But I also think the Caravan Dreamers are not wrong to treat current manoeuvring with deep suspicion. The tide of abundance that once promised to reach all the way down the social ladder past them, to the working class, is already some way back from the high-water mark and still withdrawing. All the signs suggest that, however leaders dress up their changes as climate solidarity, it will be those with only a little to lose who get sacrificed next.

Out with the caravan, and in with 100 permits a year to leave your neighbourhood. Out with the woodburner, and in with a “smart meter” that hands control of your heating to the energy supplier. And all while Bill Gates continues to warn of climate disaster — and travel by private jet.


Mary Harrington is a contributing editor at UnHerd.

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Albireo Double
Albireo Double
1 year ago

All very true Mary. But how to put a stop to the creeping theft of our autonomy and our rights?

Voting for Labour or the Conservatives will only continue the direction of travel, with nearly identical political policy whichever we elect. The problem is not just that they lie to us, but the blatant, open, and contemptuous way in which they do so. They can’t be bothered now to even try to maintain the appearance of being honest.

Personally I shall vote for Reform UK, which is not a wasted vote for the reason above. Or I might abstain – out of respect for all those who gave their lives for our democratic rights – who must be spinning in their graves at the theft of that democracy by those elected to protect it.

The alternative to the ballot box is of course civil disobedience. I practice this routinely and frequently in small matters, and will always do so. But perhaps a more definitive and powerful response may develop . The UK population is notoriously slow to anger, but tends to burn hot once the flame is ignited.

Our politicians seem to have forgotten a basic lesson, which is that if you disempower people you humiliate them, and humiliated and disempowered people who feel that they have nothing left to lose become very, very dangerous indeed – especially in large numbers.

I have lived in this country for 65 years and have seen many changes, some welcome, some less so . But to my grave concern, I find that I have never better understood the way most Germans must have felt when they elected Adolf Hitler to power, than I do now.

That’s quite a thought.

Last edited 1 year ago by Albireo Double
Chris W
Chris W
1 year ago
Reply to  Albireo Double

As I never tire of saying, this is because we don’t have a democracy. To get elected, ALL politicians take the smooth road with no adverse press. All wishy-washy toadies who will do anything for a quiet life.

This is why we need people with beliefs like Corbyn. He has extreme beliefs and to offset this, the other side will have extreme beliefs as well. So you get a true battle of beliefs instead of a wishy-washy middle – which is causing the problem. We need populists like Farage to come forward and get elected.

I suggest an alternative voting strategy. Vote for wishy-washy Starmer’s Labour. You won’t see a difference in government. But it will cause the Tories to think and to come out fighting with a real difference. Maybe a real Tory candidate will appear. We need populist Tories. The greatest of all the populists was WSC of course.

Albireo Double
Albireo Double
1 year ago
Reply to  Chris W

Good comment.

A vote for Starmer won’t make any difference where I live. The result of my non-conservative vote might be to let in a Lib-dem. I’m not terribly happy about that, but it makes no difference. I can’t vote for the Conservatives again – not after this time. The betrayal has been too great.

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago
Reply to  Albireo Double

Try Reform or UKIP?

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago
Reply to  Albireo Double

Try Reform or UKIP?

Hugh Bryant
Hugh Bryant
1 year ago
Reply to  Chris W

You’re right: this is all about democracy. Since Maastricht we’ve witnessed one attempt after another to nullify the universal franchise and replace accountable government with rule by a self-selected elite. The consequences – illegal wars, financial meltdown and a massive widening of the class divide – are plain to see.

Brexit should be just the beginning of a concerted movement to return political power to the population at large. If that means the destruction of the Conservative Party in it’s current form then so be it.

Gill Holway
Gill Holway
1 year ago
Reply to  Chris W

His genius was as a wartime prime-minister We need a prime minister with a genius for both.

JR Stoker
JR Stoker
1 year ago
Reply to  Chris W

But the theory is wrong, totally wrong. There is always the party of principles – Corbyn Labour in this instance, and the Me-Too Party. In 1950 the Conservatives were the Me-Too Party, accepting the ideology and legislation of Atlee. That really continued (bar a shortlived breakout by Heath in 1970) until Mrs Thatcher came in 1979. Labour tried moving left to counteract Mrs T, but they only won office when Tony Blair founded New Me Too Labour accepting much of the Thatcherite philosophy and won in 1997. Corbyn has pulled the underlying political ideology back leftwards without ever winning an election and we have a Tory Party that now accepts his principles.

What we need is a Tory leader with presence, intelligence, and a coherent set of principles and ideas. Fat chance it seems.

Sorry Mary, bit off subject, but very good article.

Sharon Overy
Sharon Overy
1 year ago
Reply to  Chris W

No it won’t, it will cause the Tories to believe they’ve not gone left enough!

Dave Smith
Dave Smith
1 year ago
Reply to  Chris W

The introduction of photo ID for voting is our chance to finally stop doing it. Just do not comply. Refuse to produce ID and then you will be refused a vote. Voting only allows this technocratic class to go on about their legitimacy. I attend some weekends model railway shows a hobby almost exclusively working and lower ( if you can still use that term ) middle class and very much the caravan class. . If politics is mentioned and surprisingly it often is there is almost universal contempt for both parties. I have not heard a single politician given any praise at all . We know the ruling lot want to make our lives sadder and less interesting. That they do not actually like us at all . Net zero gives them their chance and if we want any life for our children then we need to make it clear to the elite class that they are few and we are many.

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago
Reply to  Dave Smith

How can democracy be expressed if one doesn’t vote?

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago
Reply to  Dave Smith

How can democracy be expressed if one doesn’t vote?

David Taylor
David Taylor
1 year ago
Reply to  Chris W

Politicians don’t have the power to enact the changes you want to see.

See Trump, nothing really fundamentally changed.

You can look to culture and ask whether that has more power and influence than politics. But even there it’s only limited. There’s a whole army of different groups, bodies, organisations, individuals with power and influence that affect our daily lives.

No one person, or group is in control of anything. We’re riding a wave of a whole galaxy of different stakeholders that none of us have any control. Not even the wealthiest or the most influential politician can doing anything about.

As always, Mary got there first:

“And ultimately, this is at least slightly less disturbing than the prospect that the increasingly baroque chaos of 21st-century politics is just happening, without anyone at the helm. For if no one is causing it, that means no one can stop it either. And that is truly frightening.”

Last edited 1 year ago by David Taylor
Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago
Reply to  David Taylor

Could it be that we have now left God and are suffering the consequences as played out many times in the bible?

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago
Reply to  David Taylor

Could it be that we have now left God and are suffering the consequences as played out many times in the bible?

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago
Reply to  Chris W

I wouldn’t call them populists who just try and be popular. We need those who are honest and prize the truth even when it is not popular.

Albireo Double
Albireo Double
1 year ago
Reply to  Chris W

Good comment.

A vote for Starmer won’t make any difference where I live. The result of my non-conservative vote might be to let in a Lib-dem. I’m not terribly happy about that, but it makes no difference. I can’t vote for the Conservatives again – not after this time. The betrayal has been too great.

Hugh Bryant
Hugh Bryant
1 year ago
Reply to  Chris W

You’re right: this is all about democracy. Since Maastricht we’ve witnessed one attempt after another to nullify the universal franchise and replace accountable government with rule by a self-selected elite. The consequences – illegal wars, financial meltdown and a massive widening of the class divide – are plain to see.

Brexit should be just the beginning of a concerted movement to return political power to the population at large. If that means the destruction of the Conservative Party in it’s current form then so be it.

Gill Holway
Gill Holway
1 year ago
Reply to  Chris W

His genius was as a wartime prime-minister We need a prime minister with a genius for both.

JR Stoker
JR Stoker
1 year ago
Reply to  Chris W

But the theory is wrong, totally wrong. There is always the party of principles – Corbyn Labour in this instance, and the Me-Too Party. In 1950 the Conservatives were the Me-Too Party, accepting the ideology and legislation of Atlee. That really continued (bar a shortlived breakout by Heath in 1970) until Mrs Thatcher came in 1979. Labour tried moving left to counteract Mrs T, but they only won office when Tony Blair founded New Me Too Labour accepting much of the Thatcherite philosophy and won in 1997. Corbyn has pulled the underlying political ideology back leftwards without ever winning an election and we have a Tory Party that now accepts his principles.

What we need is a Tory leader with presence, intelligence, and a coherent set of principles and ideas. Fat chance it seems.

Sorry Mary, bit off subject, but very good article.

Sharon Overy
Sharon Overy
1 year ago
Reply to  Chris W

No it won’t, it will cause the Tories to believe they’ve not gone left enough!

Dave Smith
Dave Smith
1 year ago
Reply to  Chris W

The introduction of photo ID for voting is our chance to finally stop doing it. Just do not comply. Refuse to produce ID and then you will be refused a vote. Voting only allows this technocratic class to go on about their legitimacy. I attend some weekends model railway shows a hobby almost exclusively working and lower ( if you can still use that term ) middle class and very much the caravan class. . If politics is mentioned and surprisingly it often is there is almost universal contempt for both parties. I have not heard a single politician given any praise at all . We know the ruling lot want to make our lives sadder and less interesting. That they do not actually like us at all . Net zero gives them their chance and if we want any life for our children then we need to make it clear to the elite class that they are few and we are many.

David Taylor
David Taylor
1 year ago
Reply to  Chris W

Politicians don’t have the power to enact the changes you want to see.

See Trump, nothing really fundamentally changed.

You can look to culture and ask whether that has more power and influence than politics. But even there it’s only limited. There’s a whole army of different groups, bodies, organisations, individuals with power and influence that affect our daily lives.

No one person, or group is in control of anything. We’re riding a wave of a whole galaxy of different stakeholders that none of us have any control. Not even the wealthiest or the most influential politician can doing anything about.

As always, Mary got there first:

“And ultimately, this is at least slightly less disturbing than the prospect that the increasingly baroque chaos of 21st-century politics is just happening, without anyone at the helm. For if no one is causing it, that means no one can stop it either. And that is truly frightening.”

Last edited 1 year ago by David Taylor
Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago
Reply to  Chris W

I wouldn’t call them populists who just try and be popular. We need those who are honest and prize the truth even when it is not popular.

Xaven Taner
Xaven Taner
1 year ago
Reply to  Albireo Double

The consensus is clear; everyone wants a Caesar. The comparison with 1933 is not scaremongering, we’re right back at that point, but now at the global level. Is there an alternative between National Socialism and Communism? Not within the confines of traditional politics – extreme or otherwise. My view is that we’re at the point of no return and the only course of action is to accelerate the collapse and build back from out of ruins. We need a year zero not net zero.

Andrew Lale
Andrew Lale
1 year ago
Reply to  Xaven Taner

I don’t want a Caesar. I realize that puts me in a very small minority, but trying to find a Great Leader to lead us back to proper government, democracy and a well-ordered society is an oxymoron. If we do find a Caesar, he will lead us to glorious annihilation.

Andrew Lale
Andrew Lale
1 year ago
Reply to  Xaven Taner

I don’t want a Caesar. I realize that puts me in a very small minority, but trying to find a Great Leader to lead us back to proper government, democracy and a well-ordered society is an oxymoron. If we do find a Caesar, he will lead us to glorious annihilation.

Katharine Eyre
Katharine Eyre
1 year ago
Reply to  Albireo Double

I tend to take fears of mass civil disobedience with a pinch of salt – especially as far as the British are concerned, as they prefer passive aggression over actual aggression any day of the week.
But the western world today is starting to give off a distinct “let them eat cake” whiff.

Robbie K
Robbie K
1 year ago
Reply to  Katharine Eyre

Losing wood burners and turning the heating down a bit is hardly humiliation and disempowerment. If caravaners are genuinely threatened perhaps they can organise a protest convoy up the M1 on the way to the lake district.

Simon Blanchard
Simon Blanchard
1 year ago
Reply to  Robbie K

Isn’t every caravan on the motorway a civil disobedience rolling roadblock?

Robbie K
Robbie K
1 year ago

lol, true words indeed.

michael harris
michael harris
1 year ago
Reply to  Robbie K

All this spleen against caravaners. When I curse them from behind I do, at least dimly, recognise that I’m just being a snob.

michael harris
michael harris
1 year ago
Reply to  Robbie K

All this spleen against caravaners. When I curse them from behind I do, at least dimly, recognise that I’m just being a snob.

Robbie K
Robbie K
1 year ago

lol, true words indeed.

Fran Martinez
Fran Martinez
1 year ago
Reply to  Robbie K

The question is: what mandate do the Tories have to implement this kind of stuff? No one asked them to do this, abd certainly they didn’t put it in any manifesto.

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago
Reply to  Fran Martinez

It’s WEF and Gates policy where you will own nothing and still be happy.

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago
Reply to  Fran Martinez

It’s WEF and Gates policy where you will own nothing and still be happy.

Simon Blanchard
Simon Blanchard
1 year ago
Reply to  Robbie K

Isn’t every caravan on the motorway a civil disobedience rolling roadblock?

Fran Martinez
Fran Martinez
1 year ago
Reply to  Robbie K

The question is: what mandate do the Tories have to implement this kind of stuff? No one asked them to do this, abd certainly they didn’t put it in any manifesto.

Robbie K
Robbie K
1 year ago
Reply to  Katharine Eyre

Losing wood burners and turning the heating down a bit is hardly humiliation and disempowerment. If caravaners are genuinely threatened perhaps they can organise a protest convoy up the M1 on the way to the lake district.

Steve Jobs
Steve Jobs
1 year ago
Reply to  Albireo Double

While I 100% agree with everything you’ve said, it seems as though you’ve left out one key consideration – the ‘Williamson Sedation Hypothesis’.

A summary of this hypothesis is as follows. It is supposedly the role of young people to be the ones who lend their youthful exuberance to revolutionary endeavours when their chances of meeting their basic needs are increasingly reduced to zero by neglectful, incompetent, and/or corrupt leaders. However, in this modern age, these basic needs are being partially met by new technologies and services that mean young people never quite reach the critical mass needed to ignite the spark. For example, declining professional and economic opportunities are replaced by “success” when playing video games. The increasingly complex and dangerous nature of the reproductive process is replaced by an ocean of easy access online porn. These pale substitutes, and many more besides, are acting as sedatory measures on our young and keeping them from either realising or indeed much caring about the declining state of the world around them.

Of course this is simply a hypothesis – albeit a highly interesting one – and currently it lacks much quantitive evidence to support it.

Last edited 1 year ago by Steve Jobs
Fran Martinez
Fran Martinez
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve Jobs

Very interesting viewpoint.

James Longfield
James Longfield
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve Jobs

‘Twas ever thus. As the Romans knew, bread and circuses will keep the masses from revolting

John Riordan
John Riordan
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve Jobs

I would step back a little from this and ask when was the last time a genuinely revolutionary movement emerged in a society that was well-fed and housed?

The lack of career opportunities and access to affordable housing certainly provides younger people with good reason for resentment, don’t get me wrong on this point, but it is not actually leaving them cold, hungry and unsheltered.

I take your point about the pabulum effects of technology – they are real – I just question whether they can take the credit for the absence of a popular uprising. I think the continuing provision of the basics is more likely the answer.

Last edited 1 year ago by John Riordan
Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve Jobs

You left out the continuing attempt by Ofsted and the Tory government to corrupt our children with LGBT and transgender narratives.

Fran Martinez
Fran Martinez
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve Jobs

Very interesting viewpoint.

James Longfield
James Longfield
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve Jobs

‘Twas ever thus. As the Romans knew, bread and circuses will keep the masses from revolting

John Riordan
John Riordan
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve Jobs

I would step back a little from this and ask when was the last time a genuinely revolutionary movement emerged in a society that was well-fed and housed?

The lack of career opportunities and access to affordable housing certainly provides younger people with good reason for resentment, don’t get me wrong on this point, but it is not actually leaving them cold, hungry and unsheltered.

I take your point about the pabulum effects of technology – they are real – I just question whether they can take the credit for the absence of a popular uprising. I think the continuing provision of the basics is more likely the answer.

Last edited 1 year ago by John Riordan
Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve Jobs

You left out the continuing attempt by Ofsted and the Tory government to corrupt our children with LGBT and transgender narratives.

David Holland
David Holland
1 year ago
Reply to  Albireo Double

Good points apart from the fact that Hitler wasn’t elected chancellor, he was appointed by senior members of the German elite. His party did not achieve a majority until his opponents on both left and right had been crushed by his control of the police and judiciary. I think that’s the important point to remember in the current context.

Peter Johnson
Peter Johnson
1 year ago
Reply to  Albireo Double

I suspect disobedience is going to be the path we take. I am a stodgy rule following Canadian conservative – but I was ready to block bridges during the convoy protests. I was hoping the protesters would block every border crossing in Canada. Not just as a warning to that odious jackass Trudeau – but as a warning to our impotent, spineless, opposition parties – and to our supine judiciary that won’t enforce our constitutional rights. They want electric cars so they can track and control you, they want digital currency so they can track and control you, they force you to use government apps so they can track and control you, they are trying to take away gun rights in Canada so they can compel the resisters to comply with use of force.

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago
Reply to  Peter Johnson

Very true. We know all about Trudeau in the UK.

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago
Reply to  Peter Johnson

Very true. We know all about Trudeau in the UK.

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago
Reply to  Albireo Double

The Tories are finished but there is a beast waiting to take power called Labour. I myself will vote Reform although I wish they would work with Ukip who are willing to. This independence by Reform weakens the joint effort which could be big. Anyone can see that our leaders are now trying to edge us back into Europe against the referendum results. Did you see the picture of Sunak hugging Macron? What are they agreeing about? Anyway most can see that the Tory zero carbon and digital currency talk is very anti human being and only serves the globalists.

Chris W
Chris W
1 year ago
Reply to  Albireo Double

As I never tire of saying, this is because we don’t have a democracy. To get elected, ALL politicians take the smooth road with no adverse press. All wishy-washy toadies who will do anything for a quiet life.

This is why we need people with beliefs like Corbyn. He has extreme beliefs and to offset this, the other side will have extreme beliefs as well. So you get a true battle of beliefs instead of a wishy-washy middle – which is causing the problem. We need populists like Farage to come forward and get elected.

I suggest an alternative voting strategy. Vote for wishy-washy Starmer’s Labour. You won’t see a difference in government. But it will cause the Tories to think and to come out fighting with a real difference. Maybe a real Tory candidate will appear. We need populist Tories. The greatest of all the populists was WSC of course.

Xaven Taner
Xaven Taner
1 year ago
Reply to  Albireo Double

The consensus is clear; everyone wants a Caesar. The comparison with 1933 is not scaremongering, we’re right back at that point, but now at the global level. Is there an alternative between National Socialism and Communism? Not within the confines of traditional politics – extreme or otherwise. My view is that we’re at the point of no return and the only course of action is to accelerate the collapse and build back from out of ruins. We need a year zero not net zero.

Katharine Eyre
Katharine Eyre
1 year ago
Reply to  Albireo Double

I tend to take fears of mass civil disobedience with a pinch of salt – especially as far as the British are concerned, as they prefer passive aggression over actual aggression any day of the week.
But the western world today is starting to give off a distinct “let them eat cake” whiff.

Steve Jobs
Steve Jobs
1 year ago
Reply to  Albireo Double

While I 100% agree with everything you’ve said, it seems as though you’ve left out one key consideration – the ‘Williamson Sedation Hypothesis’.

A summary of this hypothesis is as follows. It is supposedly the role of young people to be the ones who lend their youthful exuberance to revolutionary endeavours when their chances of meeting their basic needs are increasingly reduced to zero by neglectful, incompetent, and/or corrupt leaders. However, in this modern age, these basic needs are being partially met by new technologies and services that mean young people never quite reach the critical mass needed to ignite the spark. For example, declining professional and economic opportunities are replaced by “success” when playing video games. The increasingly complex and dangerous nature of the reproductive process is replaced by an ocean of easy access online porn. These pale substitutes, and many more besides, are acting as sedatory measures on our young and keeping them from either realising or indeed much caring about the declining state of the world around them.

Of course this is simply a hypothesis – albeit a highly interesting one – and currently it lacks much quantitive evidence to support it.

Last edited 1 year ago by Steve Jobs
David Holland
David Holland
1 year ago
Reply to  Albireo Double

Good points apart from the fact that Hitler wasn’t elected chancellor, he was appointed by senior members of the German elite. His party did not achieve a majority until his opponents on both left and right had been crushed by his control of the police and judiciary. I think that’s the important point to remember in the current context.

Peter Johnson
Peter Johnson
1 year ago
Reply to  Albireo Double

I suspect disobedience is going to be the path we take. I am a stodgy rule following Canadian conservative – but I was ready to block bridges during the convoy protests. I was hoping the protesters would block every border crossing in Canada. Not just as a warning to that odious jackass Trudeau – but as a warning to our impotent, spineless, opposition parties – and to our supine judiciary that won’t enforce our constitutional rights. They want electric cars so they can track and control you, they want digital currency so they can track and control you, they force you to use government apps so they can track and control you, they are trying to take away gun rights in Canada so they can compel the resisters to comply with use of force.

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago
Reply to  Albireo Double

The Tories are finished but there is a beast waiting to take power called Labour. I myself will vote Reform although I wish they would work with Ukip who are willing to. This independence by Reform weakens the joint effort which could be big. Anyone can see that our leaders are now trying to edge us back into Europe against the referendum results. Did you see the picture of Sunak hugging Macron? What are they agreeing about? Anyway most can see that the Tory zero carbon and digital currency talk is very anti human being and only serves the globalists.

Albireo Double
Albireo Double
1 year ago

All very true Mary. But how to put a stop to the creeping theft of our autonomy and our rights?

Voting for Labour or the Conservatives will only continue the direction of travel, with nearly identical political policy whichever we elect. The problem is not just that they lie to us, but the blatant, open, and contemptuous way in which they do so. They can’t be bothered now to even try to maintain the appearance of being honest.

Personally I shall vote for Reform UK, which is not a wasted vote for the reason above. Or I might abstain – out of respect for all those who gave their lives for our democratic rights – who must be spinning in their graves at the theft of that democracy by those elected to protect it.

The alternative to the ballot box is of course civil disobedience. I practice this routinely and frequently in small matters, and will always do so. But perhaps a more definitive and powerful response may develop . The UK population is notoriously slow to anger, but tends to burn hot once the flame is ignited.

Our politicians seem to have forgotten a basic lesson, which is that if you disempower people you humiliate them, and humiliated and disempowered people who feel that they have nothing left to lose become very, very dangerous indeed – especially in large numbers.

I have lived in this country for 65 years and have seen many changes, some welcome, some less so . But to my grave concern, I find that I have never better understood the way most Germans must have felt when they elected Adolf Hitler to power, than I do now.

That’s quite a thought.

Last edited 1 year ago by Albireo Double
John Riordan
John Riordan
1 year ago

The only thing I’ll add to this excellent article is this: the confiscation of liberty and living standards is not a regrettable by-product of a sincerely-believed need to reduce carbon emissions: it is the primary agenda. Some of the rule-makers may also possess a sincere belief in dangerous climate change, but most either do not really believe it or more likely don’t care.

These people seem to possess a private conviction bordering upon religious zealotry that the entire point of most people’s existence is to form a country-sized regiment organised, directed, prodded, judged and experimented upon by themselves. Their greatest fear – a justified one – is that not only can we do without themselves, we’re better off without them. If this sounds mad, that’s because it is. But the tone of the debate leaves me in no doubt that certain people are in fact this mad.

AC Harper
AC Harper
1 year ago
Reply to  John Riordan

There are people who desire a tidy world with tidy rules, and heaven help anyone who values anything else. I was surprised by how many progressive people in other countries were against Brexit – but then they saw it as a step back from progress towards a world government.
Do you really believe a world administered by ‘prefects’ would be perfect? I don’t, but I’m not sure how we reverse the trend.

Peter Johnson
Peter Johnson
1 year ago
Reply to  John Riordan

I always wonder how many of them believe their climate rhetoric – most of which isn’t even supported by the IPCC? I don’t know which is worse – our leaders intentionally lying to us – or our leaders being profoundly stupid.

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago
Reply to  Peter Johnson

The science has not been proved and remains an opinion just like the effectiveness of the covid jabs. Health or hazard.

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago
Reply to  Peter Johnson

The science has not been proved and remains an opinion just like the effectiveness of the covid jabs. Health or hazard.

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago
Reply to  John Riordan

Just because we have a lousy government doesn’t mean that we do not need government. Lawlessness will be far worse believe me.

John Riordan
John Riordan
1 year ago
Reply to  Tony Conrad

Where would you get the idea that the only possible alternative to a progressive Big Government must be anarchy?

Your reply seems to be a good example of the classic social media derangement in online debates in which nuance, context and the basic discipline of referring to the facts is entirely absent.

John Riordan
John Riordan
1 year ago
Reply to  Tony Conrad

Where would you get the idea that the only possible alternative to a progressive Big Government must be anarchy?

Your reply seems to be a good example of the classic social media derangement in online debates in which nuance, context and the basic discipline of referring to the facts is entirely absent.

AC Harper
AC Harper
1 year ago
Reply to  John Riordan

There are people who desire a tidy world with tidy rules, and heaven help anyone who values anything else. I was surprised by how many progressive people in other countries were against Brexit – but then they saw it as a step back from progress towards a world government.
Do you really believe a world administered by ‘prefects’ would be perfect? I don’t, but I’m not sure how we reverse the trend.

Peter Johnson
Peter Johnson
1 year ago
Reply to  John Riordan

I always wonder how many of them believe their climate rhetoric – most of which isn’t even supported by the IPCC? I don’t know which is worse – our leaders intentionally lying to us – or our leaders being profoundly stupid.

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago
Reply to  John Riordan

Just because we have a lousy government doesn’t mean that we do not need government. Lawlessness will be far worse believe me.

John Riordan
John Riordan
1 year ago

The only thing I’ll add to this excellent article is this: the confiscation of liberty and living standards is not a regrettable by-product of a sincerely-believed need to reduce carbon emissions: it is the primary agenda. Some of the rule-makers may also possess a sincere belief in dangerous climate change, but most either do not really believe it or more likely don’t care.

These people seem to possess a private conviction bordering upon religious zealotry that the entire point of most people’s existence is to form a country-sized regiment organised, directed, prodded, judged and experimented upon by themselves. Their greatest fear – a justified one – is that not only can we do without themselves, we’re better off without them. If this sounds mad, that’s because it is. But the tone of the debate leaves me in no doubt that certain people are in fact this mad.

Lennon Ó Náraigh
Lennon Ó Náraigh
1 year ago

We have had three blackouts in my town in Ireland in the past six months – the first I have experienced since childhood – all part of our drive to Net Zero, I presume. Two of the blackouts lasted over one hour. The open fire was a welcome source of light and heat when this happened. We need clarity on these matters: if we are to have continued blackouts, and a ban on open fires, wood-burning stoves, etc, then is the plan for us plebs to just sit in the dark?

Peter Johnson
Peter Johnson
1 year ago

It is not a coincidence that the interest in prepping has taken off – it is both a measure of the lack of faith in our leadership – and a desire to not be so easily controlled.

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago
Reply to  Peter Johnson

When they admit covid vaccination damage then we will be getting somewhere.

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago
Reply to  Peter Johnson

When they admit covid vaccination damage then we will be getting somewhere.

Russ W
Russ W
1 year ago

No wood, no power, no gas + freezing cold = ?

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago
Reply to  Russ W

Exactly.

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago
Reply to  Russ W

Exactly.

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago

As an example how comical this zero carbon has become is India and China ignoring it and New Zealand putting meters on the cows breath and behinds to measure carbon emissions. It is true that we breathe out carbon dioxide but actually the trees and plants breathe in carbon dioxide and give out oxygen. Maybe if we had machines over our mouths to convert our carbon dioxide we could save the planet. Fear not God made us to live on this planet.

Last edited 1 year ago by Tony Conrad
Peter Johnson
Peter Johnson
1 year ago

It is not a coincidence that the interest in prepping has taken off – it is both a measure of the lack of faith in our leadership – and a desire to not be so easily controlled.

Russ W
Russ W
1 year ago

No wood, no power, no gas + freezing cold = ?

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago

As an example how comical this zero carbon has become is India and China ignoring it and New Zealand putting meters on the cows breath and behinds to measure carbon emissions. It is true that we breathe out carbon dioxide but actually the trees and plants breathe in carbon dioxide and give out oxygen. Maybe if we had machines over our mouths to convert our carbon dioxide we could save the planet. Fear not God made us to live on this planet.

Last edited 1 year ago by Tony Conrad
Lennon Ó Náraigh
Lennon Ó Náraigh
1 year ago

We have had three blackouts in my town in Ireland in the past six months – the first I have experienced since childhood – all part of our drive to Net Zero, I presume. Two of the blackouts lasted over one hour. The open fire was a welcome source of light and heat when this happened. We need clarity on these matters: if we are to have continued blackouts, and a ban on open fires, wood-burning stoves, etc, then is the plan for us plebs to just sit in the dark?

Nell Clover
Nell Clover
1 year ago

I can’t really add much more to the excellent article except to reach a terrifying conclusion. None of this is popular but these policies are baked into the political system. We cannot change them. We the people are not deciding or influencing the trajectory. We are simply adapting to them, often with a shrug of powerlessness. Until they get round to changing the meaning of the word democracy, for now the very meaning of the word means these Net Zero policies are not democratic. It means we no longer live in a democracy.

Last edited 1 year ago by Nell Clover
Nell Clover
Nell Clover
1 year ago

I can’t really add much more to the excellent article except to reach a terrifying conclusion. None of this is popular but these policies are baked into the political system. We cannot change them. We the people are not deciding or influencing the trajectory. We are simply adapting to them, often with a shrug of powerlessness. Until they get round to changing the meaning of the word democracy, for now the very meaning of the word means these Net Zero policies are not democratic. It means we no longer live in a democracy.

Last edited 1 year ago by Nell Clover
Peter B
Peter B
1 year ago

Marvellous – at least one good article on UnHerd this week.
Worth it just for the phrase “factually wrong, but still directionally accurate”. That covers so much about politics and society these days – people’s gut reaction and instinct are invariably correct, but the actions they take in their frustration aren’t always productive. But the core instincts aren’t wrong.
And “caravan dreamers” almost makes me feel some appreciation for caravaners. I’d always imagined it to be a rather dreary and practical activity lacking in any romance or imagination.
Now where can I get a wood-burning stove …

Steve Murray
Steve Murray
1 year ago
Reply to  Peter B

As someone who was subjected to caravan holidays as a child, i can assure you – they really are incredibly dreary!
But the joys of the open road remain – for now. The ability to just get behind a wheel and set off somewhere, perhaps on a whim, has been with us for perhaps a century; or for the majority of people, maybe around 70 years. The idea that this could be curtailed, or rationed, is something i feel would be a dealbreaker for any political party that attempted to impose it.
We saw it being done with lockdowns, of course. Rather than lockdowns being a test-run for how much governments could curtail the free movements of citizens in their own country in planning for the future, it could be that the backlash following the realisation of what had been done in an emergency situation should serve to forewarn the electorate for the potential creeping of these restrictions into our lives. Forewarned is therefore – at least potentially – better forearmed.

John Riordan
John Riordan
1 year ago
Reply to  Peter B

“factually wrong, but still directionally accurate”.

This isn’t new though. The accusation of racism that has become almost worse than a criminal conviction is what has been used to oppose with enormous success the manner in which most people dislike excessive immigration, the prioritisation of incomers access to welfare over native people, and the cultural enforcement of values not shared by the majority of people.

It has been going on for decades and the damage to society generally has been enormous. The atomisation popularly blamed on corporations and free markets, and the destruction of trust in public institutions officially blamed upon extremist politics, are actually consequences of the deliberate undermining of the social contract by the expansion of the state and its tolerance of activism in directions having no democratic mandate.

Last edited 1 year ago by John Riordan
Paul Wright
Paul Wright
1 year ago
Reply to  Peter B

“Factually wrong” is a bit euphemistic for what’s going on with the 15 minute cities protests in Oxford. You’ve got people who don’t think the Moon landings happened but who see having local shops (like the good old days) and preventing rat-runs on residential streets as all part of WEF/Bill Gates/Illuminati’s plan to imprison us all so they can do… something. It’s never clear what the Illuminati’s plan actually gains them, they’re just the mustache twirling villains of the Tin Foil Hat Extended Universe. Meanwhile the rotating cast of grifters who were involved in anti-vax groups like HART and the Together Declaration have realised the donations will dry up now nobody cares about COVID stuff any more, so they have joined the bandwaggon.

Steve Murray
Steve Murray
1 year ago
Reply to  Peter B

As someone who was subjected to caravan holidays as a child, i can assure you – they really are incredibly dreary!
But the joys of the open road remain – for now. The ability to just get behind a wheel and set off somewhere, perhaps on a whim, has been with us for perhaps a century; or for the majority of people, maybe around 70 years. The idea that this could be curtailed, or rationed, is something i feel would be a dealbreaker for any political party that attempted to impose it.
We saw it being done with lockdowns, of course. Rather than lockdowns being a test-run for how much governments could curtail the free movements of citizens in their own country in planning for the future, it could be that the backlash following the realisation of what had been done in an emergency situation should serve to forewarn the electorate for the potential creeping of these restrictions into our lives. Forewarned is therefore – at least potentially – better forearmed.

John Riordan
John Riordan
1 year ago
Reply to  Peter B

“factually wrong, but still directionally accurate”.

This isn’t new though. The accusation of racism that has become almost worse than a criminal conviction is what has been used to oppose with enormous success the manner in which most people dislike excessive immigration, the prioritisation of incomers access to welfare over native people, and the cultural enforcement of values not shared by the majority of people.

It has been going on for decades and the damage to society generally has been enormous. The atomisation popularly blamed on corporations and free markets, and the destruction of trust in public institutions officially blamed upon extremist politics, are actually consequences of the deliberate undermining of the social contract by the expansion of the state and its tolerance of activism in directions having no democratic mandate.

Last edited 1 year ago by John Riordan
Paul Wright
Paul Wright
1 year ago
Reply to  Peter B

“Factually wrong” is a bit euphemistic for what’s going on with the 15 minute cities protests in Oxford. You’ve got people who don’t think the Moon landings happened but who see having local shops (like the good old days) and preventing rat-runs on residential streets as all part of WEF/Bill Gates/Illuminati’s plan to imprison us all so they can do… something. It’s never clear what the Illuminati’s plan actually gains them, they’re just the mustache twirling villains of the Tin Foil Hat Extended Universe. Meanwhile the rotating cast of grifters who were involved in anti-vax groups like HART and the Together Declaration have realised the donations will dry up now nobody cares about COVID stuff any more, so they have joined the bandwaggon.

Peter B
Peter B
1 year ago

Marvellous – at least one good article on UnHerd this week.
Worth it just for the phrase “factually wrong, but still directionally accurate”. That covers so much about politics and society these days – people’s gut reaction and instinct are invariably correct, but the actions they take in their frustration aren’t always productive. But the core instincts aren’t wrong.
And “caravan dreamers” almost makes me feel some appreciation for caravaners. I’d always imagined it to be a rather dreary and practical activity lacking in any romance or imagination.
Now where can I get a wood-burning stove …

Hendrik Mentz
Hendrik Mentz
1 year ago

Yo! Written from the heart. Caution, otherwise – following Neil Oliver – it’ll be you next targeted.

Hendrik Mentz
Hendrik Mentz
1 year ago

Yo! Written from the heart. Caution, otherwise – following Neil Oliver – it’ll be you next targeted.

Brian Villanueva
Brian Villanueva
1 year ago

“If owning a woodburner afforded the reassuring prospect of being able to stay warm even in the event of power cuts … for the type of modestly comfortable independence”
How long before people realize that the choking off of avenues of real independence is the point. This started with the enclosure movement 500 years ago and has never stopped.
To the ruling class, serfs are far more useful than citizens.

Brian Villanueva
Brian Villanueva
1 year ago

“If owning a woodburner afforded the reassuring prospect of being able to stay warm even in the event of power cuts … for the type of modestly comfortable independence”
How long before people realize that the choking off of avenues of real independence is the point. This started with the enclosure movement 500 years ago and has never stopped.
To the ruling class, serfs are far more useful than citizens.

Dougie Undersub
Dougie Undersub
1 year ago

“How to make further reductions?” The correct question is, why bother with further, pointless reductions in a country producing less than 1% of global emissions?

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago

We could all wear machines over our mouths to convert our carbon dioxide and stopping it reaching the air?

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago

We could all wear machines over our mouths to convert our carbon dioxide and stopping it reaching the air?

Dougie Undersub
Dougie Undersub
1 year ago

“How to make further reductions?” The correct question is, why bother with further, pointless reductions in a country producing less than 1% of global emissions?

Pete Marsh
Pete Marsh
1 year ago

“I’m far from being a climate denialist. I suspect most of us will get used to fewer nice things, as the century goes on. ”
Every time I’ve advocated onshore and offshore gas, and more nuclear it’s guaranteed that someone will pop up and deride the idea. They will confidently state that this is because wind and solar are half the price of gas and nuclear.
If that’s true then surely we are in for a century of energy plenty and more nice things…

Max Beran
Max Beran
1 year ago
Reply to  Pete Marsh

But only when the sun shines and the wind blows. Between times you’re left staring at the glowing twigs in the wood burner and a blank screen.

Russ W
Russ W
1 year ago
Reply to  Pete Marsh

You maybe should be. The climate models are not predictive. The ipcc reports themselves do not support the notion of climate Armageddon that leads people to believe that “climate denier” is a thing worth talking about. Read the ipcc reports for yourself instead of the propaganda “summaries” posing as objective reporting.

Last edited 1 year ago by Russ W
Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago
Reply to  Russ W

Yeah maybe we are all taking in the mass media narrative and not looking at the facts. I believe the real reason for climate change is shown in Matthew 24.

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago
Reply to  Russ W

Yeah maybe we are all taking in the mass media narrative and not looking at the facts. I believe the real reason for climate change is shown in Matthew 24.

Andrew Lale
Andrew Lale
1 year ago
Reply to  Pete Marsh

We all know that the people touting windmills and solar farms are less trustworthy than used car salesmen. Outright lying is their M.O.

Max Beran
Max Beran
1 year ago
Reply to  Pete Marsh

But only when the sun shines and the wind blows. Between times you’re left staring at the glowing twigs in the wood burner and a blank screen.

Russ W
Russ W
1 year ago
Reply to  Pete Marsh

You maybe should be. The climate models are not predictive. The ipcc reports themselves do not support the notion of climate Armageddon that leads people to believe that “climate denier” is a thing worth talking about. Read the ipcc reports for yourself instead of the propaganda “summaries” posing as objective reporting.

Last edited 1 year ago by Russ W
Andrew Lale
Andrew Lale
1 year ago
Reply to  Pete Marsh

We all know that the people touting windmills and solar farms are less trustworthy than used car salesmen. Outright lying is their M.O.

Pete Marsh
Pete Marsh
1 year ago

“I’m far from being a climate denialist. I suspect most of us will get used to fewer nice things, as the century goes on. ”
Every time I’ve advocated onshore and offshore gas, and more nuclear it’s guaranteed that someone will pop up and deride the idea. They will confidently state that this is because wind and solar are half the price of gas and nuclear.
If that’s true then surely we are in for a century of energy plenty and more nice things…

Steve Farrell
Steve Farrell
1 year ago

“A middle class who recently learned just how much more flexible lockdown rules were for the right people will already be taking an educated guess at how climate rationing might play out.“

Eloquently put.

Steve Farrell
Steve Farrell
1 year ago

“A middle class who recently learned just how much more flexible lockdown rules were for the right people will already be taking an educated guess at how climate rationing might play out.“

Eloquently put.

Fran Martinez
Fran Martinez
1 year ago

If people keep consistently not voting for the Greens, why do both Tories and Labour keep pushing pseudo green agendas no one asked for?

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago
Reply to  Fran Martinez

It must be coming from the universities same as transgender and gay marriage.

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago
Reply to  Fran Martinez

It must be coming from the universities same as transgender and gay marriage.

Fran Martinez
Fran Martinez
1 year ago

If people keep consistently not voting for the Greens, why do both Tories and Labour keep pushing pseudo green agendas no one asked for?

William Goodwin
William Goodwin
1 year ago

Brilliant article. And terrifying.
Yet there is more to come. The next step, if and when Labour gets to power, will be open season on our wealth, starting with the confiscation of our assets: no second homes (not even your beach hut), little or no inheritance tax allowance (preventing the passing on of your property) and national taxes based on the value of your property (regardless of ability to pay) all of which are already present to one extent or another in the nations of Europe. As Claus Schwab famously said, The future is ours; you will own nothing but you will be happy.
What our halfwit politicians have failed to realise is that eventually the anglo-saxons, historically glacially slow to anger, will rebel. If our elite rulers had read Rudyard Kipling they would know this but they haven’t; and even if they had they would have read the woke edited version with all the offensive bits cancelled.
The fuse is slowly burning.

William Goodwin
William Goodwin
1 year ago

Brilliant article. And terrifying.
Yet there is more to come. The next step, if and when Labour gets to power, will be open season on our wealth, starting with the confiscation of our assets: no second homes (not even your beach hut), little or no inheritance tax allowance (preventing the passing on of your property) and national taxes based on the value of your property (regardless of ability to pay) all of which are already present to one extent or another in the nations of Europe. As Claus Schwab famously said, The future is ours; you will own nothing but you will be happy.
What our halfwit politicians have failed to realise is that eventually the anglo-saxons, historically glacially slow to anger, will rebel. If our elite rulers had read Rudyard Kipling they would know this but they haven’t; and even if they had they would have read the woke edited version with all the offensive bits cancelled.
The fuse is slowly burning.

Mark epperson
Mark epperson
1 year ago

Unfortunately, both in the US and Britain, the “elites” own the politicians and bureaucrats so it is only going to get worse unless folks wise up and vote for anyone but an incumbent and quit giving their hard earned money to these clowns. Otherwise, it will come down to two bumper stickers I saw recently: Eat the Rich and Revolutions is the only solution.

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago
Reply to  Mark epperson

There is more truth in your piece than you realise.

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago
Reply to  Mark epperson

There is more truth in your piece than you realise.

Mark epperson
Mark epperson
1 year ago

Unfortunately, both in the US and Britain, the “elites” own the politicians and bureaucrats so it is only going to get worse unless folks wise up and vote for anyone but an incumbent and quit giving their hard earned money to these clowns. Otherwise, it will come down to two bumper stickers I saw recently: Eat the Rich and Revolutions is the only solution.

Dominic A
Dominic A
1 year ago

Surely conservatism is, or should be, about responsible conservation – balancing rights with responsibilities; not living beyond your means financially, nor imposing on others, nor greedily burning up finite resources.

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago
Reply to  Dominic A

It was once but is now no longer. The conservatives are now Reform and UKIP parties and others like them.

Andrew Lale
Andrew Lale
1 year ago
Reply to  Dominic A

I’m reading this as a defence of the NetZero impositions. Right?

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago
Reply to  Dominic A

It was once but is now no longer. The conservatives are now Reform and UKIP parties and others like them.

Andrew Lale
Andrew Lale
1 year ago
Reply to  Dominic A

I’m reading this as a defence of the NetZero impositions. Right?

Dominic A
Dominic A
1 year ago

Surely conservatism is, or should be, about responsible conservation – balancing rights with responsibilities; not living beyond your means financially, nor imposing on others, nor greedily burning up finite resources.

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago

All this touches a deep nerve with me as there is so much truth in it. About half of our problems are caused by the global warming deception although I am strongly against actual proved pollution. The narrative fits neatly into the desire of the globalists to rule the world which in the end I do not think will be benign. We know that globalists now rule us because of their membership of the World Economic Forum. Global Warming Narratives help their purpose as it gives them the power to push everyone else around to save the planet. If they achieve a digital currencey then their control would be greatly increased and our freedom would be gone as in China.

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago

All this touches a deep nerve with me as there is so much truth in it. About half of our problems are caused by the global warming deception although I am strongly against actual proved pollution. The narrative fits neatly into the desire of the globalists to rule the world which in the end I do not think will be benign. We know that globalists now rule us because of their membership of the World Economic Forum. Global Warming Narratives help their purpose as it gives them the power to push everyone else around to save the planet. If they achieve a digital currencey then their control would be greatly increased and our freedom would be gone as in China.

Giles Toman
Giles Toman
1 year ago

Instead of setting targets for “net zero” why not let people vote with their wallets as to what they want to do, and what things they are prepared to give up? Then, you would see real democracy in action – people deciding for themselves what they want, and then doing it.

Giles Toman
Giles Toman
1 year ago

Instead of setting targets for “net zero” why not let people vote with their wallets as to what they want to do, and what things they are prepared to give up? Then, you would see real democracy in action – people deciding for themselves what they want, and then doing it.

Giles Toman
Giles Toman
1 year ago

I may go Unabomber on them if they try to take what is mine. I won’t win, but I bet I could hurt quite a lot of people, which is a kind of victory.
You have to draw a line (a line of death?) and then respond if the state crosses it.

Jeff Cunningham
Jeff Cunningham
1 year ago
Reply to  Giles Toman

I hope you’re using tor or a good foreign vpn.

Last edited 1 year ago by Jeff Cunningham
Jeff Cunningham
Jeff Cunningham
1 year ago
Reply to  Giles Toman

I hope you’re using tor or a good foreign vpn.

Last edited 1 year ago by Jeff Cunningham
Giles Toman
Giles Toman
1 year ago

I may go Unabomber on them if they try to take what is mine. I won’t win, but I bet I could hurt quite a lot of people, which is a kind of victory.
You have to draw a line (a line of death?) and then respond if the state crosses it.

Andrew Lale
Andrew Lale
1 year ago

‘I’m far from being a climate denialist.’ ‘much of it is factually wrong but still directionally accurate.’ These two statements are linked. For most in the media and political worlds, it doesn’t matter how often the crazy hare-brained tinfoil-hatters are right- they will always be wrong. The covid-19 pandemic of the last three years is replete with many examples where the tinfoil-hatters were correct, but were insulted, lied-about, excoriated and fired from their jobs by the authorities. It is dangerous to be right if the powerful have decreed what is ‘right’. In fact, there is no climate crisis. Far from it. Yesterday, some stats came out- no rise in average temp in the US for 18 years. Ice at the ice caps within the normal range of variation. The ‘devastated’ reefs of the Pacific are growing nicely. But vastly powerful forces have decided there IS a climate crisis and if you get in their way, you are going to be very sorry about it indeed.

Andrew Lale
Andrew Lale
1 year ago

‘I’m far from being a climate denialist.’ ‘much of it is factually wrong but still directionally accurate.’ These two statements are linked. For most in the media and political worlds, it doesn’t matter how often the crazy hare-brained tinfoil-hatters are right- they will always be wrong. The covid-19 pandemic of the last three years is replete with many examples where the tinfoil-hatters were correct, but were insulted, lied-about, excoriated and fired from their jobs by the authorities. It is dangerous to be right if the powerful have decreed what is ‘right’. In fact, there is no climate crisis. Far from it. Yesterday, some stats came out- no rise in average temp in the US for 18 years. Ice at the ice caps within the normal range of variation. The ‘devastated’ reefs of the Pacific are growing nicely. But vastly powerful forces have decided there IS a climate crisis and if you get in their way, you are going to be very sorry about it indeed.

Richard Abbot
Richard Abbot
1 year ago

It ought to be pretty clear by now, and if it isn’t it will be soon – there is no democratic solution.

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago
Reply to  Richard Abbot

Are you now talking about a dictatorship?

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago
Reply to  Richard Abbot

Are you now talking about a dictatorship?

Richard Abbot
Richard Abbot
1 year ago

It ought to be pretty clear by now, and if it isn’t it will be soon – there is no democratic solution.

Stephen Davies
Stephen Davies
1 year ago

Most of the comments here think that what Mary Harrington describes is simply a political decision driven by ideology. That misses the point. It is a political response to an inescapable physical reality, which is the increasing marginal cost of fossil fuels. As older fields deplete they have to be replaced by newer ones. These are from higher cost sources (because the easy access fields get developed first) and so the marginal cost of oil, gas and coal, the amount you have to pay to get the last few million barrels the world economy needs to run at full blast, will go upwards. This keeps on triggering recessions and financial panics so the actual pattern is an up and down yo-yo but with the bottom slowly rising. This means that economic growth will peter out (but at different rates in different parts of the world). What she describes is the response to this ebbing of the tide of economic growth, which is firstly to try and keep it going by increasingly desperate expedients (mainly funny money) and secondly to protect the elite and force the middle and lower classes to bear the pain. One thing after another will become a luxury good, accessible only to the upper classes. The only alternative is to share that pain around. What is not coming back is growth.

Last edited 1 year ago by Stephen Davies
Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago
Reply to  Stephen Davies

New fields are continually being found. Even Israel who had nothing have discovered a massive oil and gas field in the Med that will supply them for decades as well as exporting.

Andrew Lale
Andrew Lale
1 year ago
Reply to  Stephen Davies

How much do you know about the oil industry? I mean, REALLY know?

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago
Reply to  Stephen Davies

New fields are continually being found. Even Israel who had nothing have discovered a massive oil and gas field in the Med that will supply them for decades as well as exporting.

Andrew Lale
Andrew Lale
1 year ago
Reply to  Stephen Davies

How much do you know about the oil industry? I mean, REALLY know?

Stephen Davies
Stephen Davies
1 year ago

Most of the comments here think that what Mary Harrington describes is simply a political decision driven by ideology. That misses the point. It is a political response to an inescapable physical reality, which is the increasing marginal cost of fossil fuels. As older fields deplete they have to be replaced by newer ones. These are from higher cost sources (because the easy access fields get developed first) and so the marginal cost of oil, gas and coal, the amount you have to pay to get the last few million barrels the world economy needs to run at full blast, will go upwards. This keeps on triggering recessions and financial panics so the actual pattern is an up and down yo-yo but with the bottom slowly rising. This means that economic growth will peter out (but at different rates in different parts of the world). What she describes is the response to this ebbing of the tide of economic growth, which is firstly to try and keep it going by increasingly desperate expedients (mainly funny money) and secondly to protect the elite and force the middle and lower classes to bear the pain. One thing after another will become a luxury good, accessible only to the upper classes. The only alternative is to share that pain around. What is not coming back is growth.

Last edited 1 year ago by Stephen Davies
Ray Andrews
Ray Andrews
1 year ago

“The slow hollowing-out and financialisation”
It surprised me just how long our society could run on empty — several decades — before reality started to hit hard. The magicians that made the illusion possible are the banksters and financialisationists. Somehow, production of real wealth — real stuff — could end, to be replaced with ‘knowledge’, and yet, for a while it all seemed like it might just work. At the top of a hill one can turn the engine off and coast … for a while. We’ve been coasting since more or less the 80s and finally ordinary people are starting to get poor fast. Not to worry tho, the globalists are doing fine.
Funny thing, given the choice I’d almost rather be impoverished by right wing ‘market’ people than left wing eco-wokies. The former at least wear their avarice honestly. Gordon Gekko didn’t pretend to be anything other than the parasite that he was.

Aidan Anabetting
Aidan Anabetting
1 year ago

“The slow hollowing-out and financialisaton of Britain that Thatcher inaugurated has already delivered “Brexitland” populism”
– Very astute, but It’s funny how these little references are creeping in unremarked on by commenters. It’s as if Unherd is beginning to quietly edge away from the scene of the crime, muttering “nothing to do with me guv”. The realisation is dawning that Brexit was a symptom, not a cure, and has diverted us into a cul-de-sac of pointless culture war spats and economic stagnation.

Stevie K
Stevie K
1 year ago

That phrase that Mary used can be interpreted in a very different way to the way you chose to. You are entitled to your own view, but for me that phrase was not being dismissive about Brexit and populism, just pointing out that there was a historical process leading up to it.
I’m afraid the fundamental issue of sovereignty will not go away even if the, nearly strangled at birth, Brexit process has a long and inevitably bumpy road yet to travel, independence and agency is generally hard won, but is important for a meaningful and satisfying existence. I also don’t think it has anything directly to do with culture war spats either, they were coming down the road at full tilt anyway. The only crime scene was the shocking Remainer withdrawal of loser’s consent. It was also nonsense about Brexit causing economic stagnation.

Stevie K
Stevie K
1 year ago

That phrase that Mary used can be interpreted in a very different way to the way you chose to. You are entitled to your own view, but for me that phrase was not being dismissive about Brexit and populism, just pointing out that there was a historical process leading up to it.
I’m afraid the fundamental issue of sovereignty will not go away even if the, nearly strangled at birth, Brexit process has a long and inevitably bumpy road yet to travel, independence and agency is generally hard won, but is important for a meaningful and satisfying existence. I also don’t think it has anything directly to do with culture war spats either, they were coming down the road at full tilt anyway. The only crime scene was the shocking Remainer withdrawal of loser’s consent. It was also nonsense about Brexit causing economic stagnation.

Aidan Anabetting
Aidan Anabetting
1 year ago

“The slow hollowing-out and financialisaton of Britain that Thatcher inaugurated has already delivered “Brexitland” populism”
– Very astute, but It’s funny how these little references are creeping in unremarked on by commenters. It’s as if Unherd is beginning to quietly edge away from the scene of the crime, muttering “nothing to do with me guv”. The realisation is dawning that Brexit was a symptom, not a cure, and has diverted us into a cul-de-sac of pointless culture war spats and economic stagnation.

Robbie K
Robbie K
1 year ago

Unfortunately, the Caravan Dreamers Mary describes here are also the boomers. These folks included my friends and sort of me, we’re used to having anything we want and luxuriating in the fatty resources of the earth. This has of course partially led humanity to where it is now, so it’s the next generations that will pay the price of our indulgences.
In the time being our efforts to reach net zero, which will be valiant but futile, will be entirely undone by protectionism in China and the US.
The result, is that future humanity are going to suffer terribly and Caravan Dreamers will be cursed as the one’s who shrugged their shoulders.

Robbie K
Robbie K
1 year ago
Reply to  Robbie K

Unsurprised to see this being downvoted, such is the cynical tone of this article feeding the cognitive dissonance of the slightly sceptic and the obvious element of denial ever present on the very right wing. Somewhat disappointed with Mary in this respect, her usual intellectual edge has given way to prose that deserves to be in an echo chamber.

Chris W
Chris W
1 year ago
Reply to  Robbie K

It never fails to amaze me how people learn by memorising jargon words that all their friends say.
I am reminded on a time in Japan (Woe is me, I flew) when I started a discussion with a student to test his climate knowledge. He panicked immediately and said, “Our tutor told us what to say with people like you.”

Perhaps the world is getting warmer – certainly for the moment.
Perhaps human beings have caused it.

Help!!! We need to stop human beings today from doing what they do. Let the weak perish!! Who cares as long as we save the planet!!

I care.

Chris W
Chris W
1 year ago
Reply to  Robbie K

It never fails to amaze me how people learn by memorising jargon words that all their friends say.
I am reminded on a time in Japan (Woe is me, I flew) when I started a discussion with a student to test his climate knowledge. He panicked immediately and said, “Our tutor told us what to say with people like you.”

Perhaps the world is getting warmer – certainly for the moment.
Perhaps human beings have caused it.

Help!!! We need to stop human beings today from doing what they do. Let the weak perish!! Who cares as long as we save the planet!!

I care.

Hugh Bryant
Hugh Bryant
1 year ago
Reply to  Robbie K

Human societies will adjust to climate change just as they’ve adjusted to everything else.

Robbie K
Robbie K
1 year ago
Reply to  Hugh Bryant

Of course they will, and it will start with using less resources (now) and result in mass migration because of droughts and starvation, conflict and an increasing polarisation of have and have nots.

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago
Reply to  Hugh Bryant

I can’t see any big difference at least in Britain.

Robbie K
Robbie K
1 year ago
Reply to  Hugh Bryant

Of course they will, and it will start with using less resources (now) and result in mass migration because of droughts and starvation, conflict and an increasing polarisation of have and have nots.

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago
Reply to  Hugh Bryant

I can’t see any big difference at least in Britain.

John Riordan
John Riordan
1 year ago
Reply to  Robbie K

The boomers you refer to and the age of prosperity the peak of which they inhabit, is the same thing as the fossil fuelled age of plenty. Boomers, by and large, do not believe in dangerous climate change and consequently do not take measures to deal with it, hence they are rich.

The generations after them tend to believe in the need to reduce CO2 emissions and consequently behave and vote in ways that make themselves poorer. That’s fine if they want to do it, but to then blame the boomer generation for their own poverty borders upon the surreally stupid and insane.

The state of the modern world is NOT the fault of the boomer generation – except, perhaps, the parts of the modern world that are still good.

(I am not a boomer, to deal with the predictable response).

Last edited 1 year ago by John Riordan
Linda Hutchinson
Linda Hutchinson
1 year ago
Reply to  John Riordan

Boomers, by and large, do not believe in dangerous climate change
This Boomer does.

John Riordan
John Riordan
1 year ago

More fool you.

Linda Hutchinson
Linda Hutchinson
1 year ago
Reply to  John Riordan

Name calling doesn’t make something untrue.

Jane Watson
Jane Watson
1 year ago

Well I’m a boomer, and my knowledge of history isn’t great (I’m better on prehistory), but I do remember the history lesson where we learned that the Romans grew grapes in York. Being in the North West, our class thought this sounded rather wonderful. At the time (early 60s) we were being told that the earth had been cooling since the Romans and we were heading towards another Ice Age.

Andrew Lale
Andrew Lale
1 year ago

No, understanding where a political ideology and bent science intersect makes something untrue.

John Riordan
John Riordan
1 year ago

No, the experimental observations which conflict with the dangerous man-made climate change conjecture is what makes it untrue.

Jane Watson
Jane Watson
1 year ago

Well I’m a boomer, and my knowledge of history isn’t great (I’m better on prehistory), but I do remember the history lesson where we learned that the Romans grew grapes in York. Being in the North West, our class thought this sounded rather wonderful. At the time (early 60s) we were being told that the earth had been cooling since the Romans and we were heading towards another Ice Age.

Andrew Lale
Andrew Lale
1 year ago

No, understanding where a political ideology and bent science intersect makes something untrue.

John Riordan
John Riordan
1 year ago

No, the experimental observations which conflict with the dangerous man-made climate change conjecture is what makes it untrue.

Linda Hutchinson
Linda Hutchinson
1 year ago
Reply to  John Riordan

Name calling doesn’t make something untrue.

Steven Campbell
Steven Campbell
1 year ago

This boomer does not. I believe in Climate and that Climate will change, always has, but cannot bring myself to think that man overcomes nature and that we know what the temperature of the earth should be. Could anyone tell me that? What should it be?
Adapt and mitigate has always been the human way to progress, not shut down and die.

Robbie K
Robbie K
1 year ago

It’s a peculiar notion to be asked if one believes in climate change, sort of like asking if you believe in gravity.

Elaine Giedrys-Leeper
Elaine Giedrys-Leeper
1 year ago

This Boomer does too.
The science that has been done in and around climate change over the last 30 + years has been breathtaking / illuminating / exciting in it’s own right and as an individual with a sciency bent, watching how ideas have changed over this time as knowledge has been accrued, I find very heart warming – the scientific method in action. A bit like Covid really.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago

“ The science that has been done ”.

Aha those immortal words! But NOT this time!
Never cry Wolf as they say.

Last edited 1 year ago by CHARLES STANHOPE
Chris W
Chris W
1 year ago

I remember from the Covid past that you were a medical scientist. I say this because scientists don’t all think alike.

I have about 20 books on climate and global warming. I have seen innumerable You Tube presentations. There is clear evidence that the planet is warming. There is clear evidence that it has been much warmer (and colder) in the recent past. The thing which is not clear, nor even probable, is that if we cut carbon emissions we will reverse the trend.

If we did reverse the trend and temperatures started to drift downwards, three generations from now there would be an equal and opposite panic about global cooling.

I can assure you that global cooling would be 100 times worse than global warming.

michael harris
michael harris
1 year ago

Do you mean that the production of Covid was a fine example of the scientific method in action? Well, perhaps. But the response to it was panic, blame, corner cutting and dodgy statistics.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago

“ The science that has been done ”.

Aha those immortal words! But NOT this time!
Never cry Wolf as they say.

Last edited 1 year ago by CHARLES STANHOPE
Chris W
Chris W
1 year ago

I remember from the Covid past that you were a medical scientist. I say this because scientists don’t all think alike.

I have about 20 books on climate and global warming. I have seen innumerable You Tube presentations. There is clear evidence that the planet is warming. There is clear evidence that it has been much warmer (and colder) in the recent past. The thing which is not clear, nor even probable, is that if we cut carbon emissions we will reverse the trend.

If we did reverse the trend and temperatures started to drift downwards, three generations from now there would be an equal and opposite panic about global cooling.

I can assure you that global cooling would be 100 times worse than global warming.

michael harris
michael harris
1 year ago

Do you mean that the production of Covid was a fine example of the scientific method in action? Well, perhaps. But the response to it was panic, blame, corner cutting and dodgy statistics.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago

How very disappointing, I thought you were made of sterner stuff.

Andy Moore
Andy Moore
1 year ago

Based on what?

John Riordan
John Riordan
1 year ago

More fool you.

Steven Campbell
Steven Campbell
1 year ago

This boomer does not. I believe in Climate and that Climate will change, always has, but cannot bring myself to think that man overcomes nature and that we know what the temperature of the earth should be. Could anyone tell me that? What should it be?
Adapt and mitigate has always been the human way to progress, not shut down and die.

Robbie K
Robbie K
1 year ago

It’s a peculiar notion to be asked if one believes in climate change, sort of like asking if you believe in gravity.

Elaine Giedrys-Leeper
Elaine Giedrys-Leeper
1 year ago

This Boomer does too.
The science that has been done in and around climate change over the last 30 + years has been breathtaking / illuminating / exciting in it’s own right and as an individual with a sciency bent, watching how ideas have changed over this time as knowledge has been accrued, I find very heart warming – the scientific method in action. A bit like Covid really.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago

How very disappointing, I thought you were made of sterner stuff.

Andy Moore
Andy Moore
1 year ago

Based on what?

Robbie K
Robbie K
1 year ago
Reply to  John Riordan

Boomers, by and large, do not believe in dangerous climate change and consequently do not take measures to deal with it, hence they are rich.

This is why I referred to cognitive dissonance. Why deal with the negative consequences of something that isn’t entirely tangible when one has a comfortable and luxurious lifestyle?

Linda Hutchinson
Linda Hutchinson
1 year ago
Reply to  John Riordan

Boomers, by and large, do not believe in dangerous climate change
This Boomer does.

Robbie K
Robbie K
1 year ago
Reply to  John Riordan

Boomers, by and large, do not believe in dangerous climate change and consequently do not take measures to deal with it, hence they are rich.

This is why I referred to cognitive dissonance. Why deal with the negative consequences of something that isn’t entirely tangible when one has a comfortable and luxurious lifestyle?

Katharine Eyre
Katharine Eyre
1 year ago
Reply to  Robbie K

I sympathise with your comment. As a millennial, I did read this article and think: “Those are some spoiled boomers. Whinging about not being able to go out as often in your caravan? Boo-hoo, my heart bleeds”. If they’ve got existential angst, then try and walk in the younger generation’s shoes. I’ve had to actively stop myself thinking about what my old age is going to look like; the stuff coming down the pike at us is just too scary and depressing that wallowing in it would cause me to down tools forever. And that.obviously is not going to do anything for my own wealth/prosperity.
Answer: read less news, set goals and work towards them without comparing yourself too much to others…and give boomers whinging about caravans the same short shrift they give us young ‘uns about being too soft and lazy. How’s that for some intergenerational resentment this Thursday morning?

Last edited 1 year ago by Katharine Eyre
Albireo Double
Albireo Double
1 year ago
Reply to  Katharine Eyre

Great last paragraph and I agree completely. But I don’t understand what it is that you see coming down the road at you, that is so terrifying. You do know don’t you, that you are being conned by those who tell you that climate change is a particularly important thing?

Katharine Eyre
Katharine Eyre
1 year ago
Reply to  Albireo Double

Climate change isn’t uppermost in my mind, actually. The things which I tend to spend most time thinking about are: how we are going to sustain our social systems in view of demographic change/migratory pressures, societal cohesion in view of said migration, the fact that machines are taking over my job and I have to find something else to do, probably never being able to afford my own property, disappearing hope that I will get anything in the way of a state pension and having to find some way in this uncertain world to invest and scrape enough money together myself…which kind of relates back to the first point…it goes on.
And one of the most awful things about these thought spirals (which actually aren’t paranoid fancies) is that you start thinking: “oh well, look on the bright side – I could die early!” Which is a dreadful thought to be avoided and blessings counted…but I think you’ll understand the logic.

Last edited 1 year ago by Katharine Eyre
Albireo Double
Albireo Double
1 year ago
Reply to  Katharine Eyre

Great post. Thank you.

All I’ll say is that the depressing thought that you mention was a constant companion for me too from the age of 25 to about 45. But I got where I wanted to be in the end by following your advice to yourself in your first post.

Good luck to you for all the success and happiness that you want. It’s worth fighting for.

Alex Carnegie
Alex Carnegie
1 year ago
Reply to  Katharine Eyre

I think you are highlighting something very important. The anger of Millennials and Gen Z seems to me to be as much about their own prospects as the various individual issues they campaign on. I suspect that it is essential that the government accepts inter alia that
1/ a stagnating or declining standard of living of the bottom 30% – and an even higher proportion of the under 30s – because of globalisation, automation, immigration, deregulation etc is unsustainable. Average GDP growth matters little if so large a percentage of society is not participating. A healthy and reality based debate on how this is to be reversed is necessary. The alternative is increasingly bitter populist politics lurching erratically towards extreme solutions.
2/ either taxes have to up or major public services scrapped. It is no longer possible to cap public expenditure at 40% of GDP and support the existing range. The inevitably rising cost of health and welfare has already cannibalised other public services including not only libraries and swimming pools but the justice system and defence; now the NHS itself risks imploding. I wish it was not so but the arithmetic is remorseless. The public is clear about which way it would prefer to go given the choice.

Last edited 1 year ago by Alex Carnegie
Katharine Eyre
Katharine Eyre
1 year ago
Reply to  Alex Carnegie

Good points. I don’t live in the UK but I spent the first 22 years of my life there…and from the outside the NHS really does resemble some dying star that is fast collapsing, sucking everything around it in. Since it has functioned as a kind of national religion/touchstone for so long, you might want to ponder whether ithe NHS is an allegory for Britain as a whole…

Last edited 1 year ago by Katharine Eyre
Andrew Lale
Andrew Lale
1 year ago
Reply to  Alex Carnegie

‘The alternative is increasingly bitter populist politics lurching erratically towards extreme solutions.’ I have believed for some time that that is exactly the plan. Once young people believe that ‘capitalism’ and ‘democracy’ have comprehensively failed, getting them to support technocratic dictatorship will be easy. Of course, capitalism and democracy have already been subverted, rather than having failed. The people currently running things are both completely sociopathic and dedicated to ends which most people would find abhorrent if stated clearly and openly.

Katharine Eyre
Katharine Eyre
1 year ago
Reply to  Alex Carnegie

Good points. I don’t live in the UK but I spent the first 22 years of my life there…and from the outside the NHS really does resemble some dying star that is fast collapsing, sucking everything around it in. Since it has functioned as a kind of national religion/touchstone for so long, you might want to ponder whether ithe NHS is an allegory for Britain as a whole…

Last edited 1 year ago by Katharine Eyre
Andrew Lale
Andrew Lale
1 year ago
Reply to  Alex Carnegie

‘The alternative is increasingly bitter populist politics lurching erratically towards extreme solutions.’ I have believed for some time that that is exactly the plan. Once young people believe that ‘capitalism’ and ‘democracy’ have comprehensively failed, getting them to support technocratic dictatorship will be easy. Of course, capitalism and democracy have already been subverted, rather than having failed. The people currently running things are both completely sociopathic and dedicated to ends which most people would find abhorrent if stated clearly and openly.

Chris W
Chris W
1 year ago
Reply to  Katharine Eyre

Very good. The NHS has been so successful in prolonging life that there are just too many old people hanging on and on. In fact, the NHS has failed dismally.

Peter B
Peter B
1 year ago
Reply to  Chris W

The NHS’s main success has arguably been in prolonging *it’s own life*.

Chris W
Chris W
1 year ago
Reply to  Peter B

Exactly!

Chris W
Chris W
1 year ago
Reply to  Peter B

Exactly!

Peter B
Peter B
1 year ago
Reply to  Chris W

The NHS’s main success has arguably been in prolonging *it’s own life*.

Peter B
Peter B
1 year ago
Reply to  Katharine Eyre

Katherine, please don’t assume that old older people don’t strongly sympathise with much of what you say. Even if I wasn’t a parent, I would still see the ridiculous house prices in the West in general as a disaster for society as a whole. Yes, I too thought I’;d never be able to afford a house when I graduated in 1986. But the situation now is far, far worse.
Unsustainable systems do eventually collapse. The mess we’re in with housing and pensions (why should you have to pay for the pensions of current retired people, the gold-plated state pensions you’ll never get and then – if there’s anything left over – your own pension ?) clearly is not sustainable. Meanwhile we go on importing future pension liabilities in the hundreds of thousands every year in the obviously mistaken belief that low-skilled immigrants will be net lifetime positive for UK pensions (they will not). It’s just one last desperate throw of the dice – much like 20+ years of active government policy to promote house price inflation.
But your attitude is great and to be applauded. Keep busy. Stay positive. Absolutely don’t waste time on the “news”. I know that’s easy to say. But with that attitude you should do well.

Albireo Double
Albireo Double
1 year ago
Reply to  Katharine Eyre

Great post. Thank you.

All I’ll say is that the depressing thought that you mention was a constant companion for me too from the age of 25 to about 45. But I got where I wanted to be in the end by following your advice to yourself in your first post.

Good luck to you for all the success and happiness that you want. It’s worth fighting for.

Alex Carnegie
Alex Carnegie
1 year ago
Reply to  Katharine Eyre

I think you are highlighting something very important. The anger of Millennials and Gen Z seems to me to be as much about their own prospects as the various individual issues they campaign on. I suspect that it is essential that the government accepts inter alia that
1/ a stagnating or declining standard of living of the bottom 30% – and an even higher proportion of the under 30s – because of globalisation, automation, immigration, deregulation etc is unsustainable. Average GDP growth matters little if so large a percentage of society is not participating. A healthy and reality based debate on how this is to be reversed is necessary. The alternative is increasingly bitter populist politics lurching erratically towards extreme solutions.
2/ either taxes have to up or major public services scrapped. It is no longer possible to cap public expenditure at 40% of GDP and support the existing range. The inevitably rising cost of health and welfare has already cannibalised other public services including not only libraries and swimming pools but the justice system and defence; now the NHS itself risks imploding. I wish it was not so but the arithmetic is remorseless. The public is clear about which way it would prefer to go given the choice.

Last edited 1 year ago by Alex Carnegie
Chris W
Chris W
1 year ago
Reply to  Katharine Eyre

Very good. The NHS has been so successful in prolonging life that there are just too many old people hanging on and on. In fact, the NHS has failed dismally.

Peter B
Peter B
1 year ago
Reply to  Katharine Eyre

Katherine, please don’t assume that old older people don’t strongly sympathise with much of what you say. Even if I wasn’t a parent, I would still see the ridiculous house prices in the West in general as a disaster for society as a whole. Yes, I too thought I’;d never be able to afford a house when I graduated in 1986. But the situation now is far, far worse.
Unsustainable systems do eventually collapse. The mess we’re in with housing and pensions (why should you have to pay for the pensions of current retired people, the gold-plated state pensions you’ll never get and then – if there’s anything left over – your own pension ?) clearly is not sustainable. Meanwhile we go on importing future pension liabilities in the hundreds of thousands every year in the obviously mistaken belief that low-skilled immigrants will be net lifetime positive for UK pensions (they will not). It’s just one last desperate throw of the dice – much like 20+ years of active government policy to promote house price inflation.
But your attitude is great and to be applauded. Keep busy. Stay positive. Absolutely don’t waste time on the “news”. I know that’s easy to say. But with that attitude you should do well.

Chris W
Chris W
1 year ago
Reply to  Albireo Double

All of the people who are talking about climate change as the end of the world need to wake up.

To paraphrase Theodore Dalrymple, – people are very good at predicting that the world is going to end; they’ve been doing it for years. But they forget that we have many years to do things to alleviate the situation.

Nothing..nothing is going to stop life as we know it unless there is a revolution with serious weapons and millions of people are killed. Perhaps starvation or extreme cold is the way to do it.

Katherine makes a good point. Boomers are relatively rich and don’t want to change. But they will die. Then we will be fine but global cooling will tax the generation who worried about global warming.

Albireo Double
Albireo Double
1 year ago
Reply to  Chris W

“…Boomers are relatively rich and don’t want to change. But they will die. Then we will be fine…”

But you’ll be getting on a bit! Most of those boomers have 20 to 30 years left in them – how old will millennials be then?

If waiting for them to die is the best strategy, then something’s wrong surely?

Chris W
Chris W
1 year ago
Reply to  Albireo Double

It is a strategy, not the strategy. There are literally hundreds of suggestions on the table but Ms Greta has picked one – Europe must suffer.

Chris W
Chris W
1 year ago
Reply to  Albireo Double

It is a strategy, not the strategy. There are literally hundreds of suggestions on the table but Ms Greta has picked one – Europe must suffer.

Christopher Thompson
Christopher Thompson
1 year ago
Reply to  Chris W

Why does everyone keep assuming that every one of my generation, the “boomers”, is comfortably off?

Chris W