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Tár and the triumph of amoral artists The conductor fails every purity test going

Listen to Bach (Tar)


January 20, 2023   6 mins

“Once I saw it, I was offended: I was offended as a woman, I was offended as a conductor, I was offended as a lesbian…”

Tár, Todd Field’s new film about an eminent female conductor, is splitting the musical crowd. The superstar conductor, woman and lesbian Marin Alsop, was offended in the Sunday Times, while UK conductor Alice Farnham applauded Field in the Guardian, for helping to “normalise the image of a woman on the podium”.

Both responses are quite funny, though arguably Farnham’s response edges it. To watch Tár and leave the cinema thinking that the cause of female conductors has been significantly helped is a bit like thinking that Cinderella generally improves the public image of stepmothers. As played by Cate Blanchett, the film’s protagonist Lydia Tár is a ruthlessly ambitious, amoral narcissist. Major character flaws include deceit, habitual philandering with junior acolytes, and an unrepentant taste for revenge. Not only does she fail every purity test going, she also explicitly rejects attempts to classify her as a “female conductor”, behaving in general much more like a stereotypical man than woman. She insists on being called “Maestro” not “Maestra”, boxes fiercely to work off excess aggression, launches a violent attack on a rival at one point, and at another introduces herself straight-faced as the father of the child she co-parents with her long-suffering wife.

Although Alsop’s negative response to the film is quite different to Farnham’s enthusiastic one, they apparently at least agree that Tár stands or falls by how well it serves the goal of positive representation of female conductors. For her part, Alsop excoriates the director for his “antiwoman” artistic choices, saying: “To have an opportunity to portray a woman in that role and to make her an abuser — for me that was heartbreaking. There are so many men — actual, documented men — this film could have been based on but, instead, it puts a woman in the role but gives her all the attributes of those men.”

Ludicrous as it is to think that, in some alternative universe, the general public might have flocked to cinemas to see propaganda on behalf of the female conducting industry, these responses of Alsop and Farnham are hardly out of step with the zeitgeist. Elsewhere too, there’s a tendency to take a work’s fictional focus upon a particular character as having real-life implications for some wider group, and then to rate the work on that basis. Incorporating a cross-dressing murderer into a novel plot — as did Robert Galbraith (aka J.K. Rowling) in Troubled Blood or Thomas Harris in The Silence of the Lambs — was taken by some to convey something negative about trans people generally, resulting in a quick dismissal for the works in question. More recently, dramatically illuminating the life of a gay serial killer — as the Netflix series Monster did, about the cannibalistic Jeffrey Dahmer — was interpreted as pathologising gay men. (The thoughts of common-or-garden serial killers about how bad the series made them look remain unrecorded.)

There are other signs too that, as a culture, we’re increasingly incapable of reacting to art except in the crudest of moralised or politicised terms. For one, there’s all the trigger warnings and the censored university reading lists. For another, there’s the perceived prohibition on authors writing “outside of their own identities”. Only women should tell stories from the point of view of women, only black people should fictionalise what it’s like to be black, and so on — apparently ignoring the fact that human beings have imaginations, and that it’s a traditional goal of both writing and reading fiction to use them.

And then there’s the habit — seemingly endemic to Gen Z audiences but by no means limited to them — of treating the grossest of personality traits of an artist as relevant to assessing the value of his output, whether or not those traits have left any visible trace on the work. The list of entire oeuvres we are collectively implored to jettison because of the moral transgressions of their creators grows longer every day. Cases like Pound, Polanski, Allen, Hemingway, and Picasso spring to mind, but — such is the degree of churn these days in standards of public decency — practically no artist or creator living prior to 2010 is immune.

This last phenomenon is satirised well in Tár. In a much-discussed scene, the magnificently imperious protagonist runs a conducting masterclass at the Julliard. Asking one nervous student why he didn’t choose to conduct a piece by Bach instead of one by the contemporary Icelandic composer Anna Thorvaldsdottir, he replies: “Honestly as a BIPOC pangender person, I would say Bach’s misogynistic life makes it kind of impossible for me to take his music seriously.”

Tár tries to clarify — “I’m unclear about what his prodigious skills in the marital bed have to do with B minor” — and delicately plays an extract of Prelude No 1 in C major on a nearby piano to underline her point. But the student obstinately doubles down, saying: “You play really well… but nowadays white male cis composers are just not my thing.” Not for nothing has this scene gone viral. For viewers bored of the way that pious professions of faith about identity tend to kill interesting artistic creativity at birth, Tár’s cutting of the foolish young man down to size comes as a something of a relief.

But where did all the furious moralising about art come from in the first place? Perhaps ironically, I think one contributing factor is the instruction from philosophers like Roland Barthes and Michel Foucault to liberate the meaning of an artwork from the jurisdiction of its creator. It might seem strange to link postmodern dehumanisation to the moral panic about art we now see all around us — not least because Barthes and Foucault thought that paying attention to the personality of an artist was reprehensibly bourgeois. But I think a case can be made for the connection, causally at least.

Back in the Sixties, Barthes and Foucault told us that the idea of an author “owning” the meaning of the work he produced was as outdated as the literary humanist tradition that accompanied it. We should stop worrying about what an artist who produced a given work must have intended by doing so. As a concept, the author was now dead or soon would be — skipping blithely over the question of who exactly was telling us this, and why on earth we should take the point seriously if they were right. Henceforth readers would be in control of a work’s meaning and not the author. Like seeing shapes in tea leaves or clouds, whatever patterns a readership saw in a work would be what it meant — for that moment at least.

In effect, the Death of the Author craze — which lasted for decades in literature departments — made people focus on unintended effects of texts rather than intended ones. After all, literary scholars were not about to declare themselves out of a job. The new game became to say what a deracinated text put you in mind of accidentally, and never mind whether there was any likelihood the author might have meant it: feminism in Chaucer, say, or masturbation in the works of Jane Austen. At the same time though, making a professional living from what essentially amounted to prolonged forays into free association apparently left a lot of academics feeling hollow.

Perhaps longing for a more convincing hero’s journey for themselves — or even just something they could unembarrassedly tell relatives about at Christmas — slowly the topic seemed to turn from inadvertent effects of texts generally to inadvertent harms of texts in particular. As a fascinating book review by Merve Emre this week in the New Yorker puts it, the figure of the “Scholar-Activist” was now emerging, who thought “the proper task of criticism was to participate in social transformations occurring outside the university”. Such a critic could position himself as a clearer of literary landmines, finding and disarming them before they went off. What minority group might be hurt by this book? What harmful message might this film convey to the unwary? Though an artist’s actual intentions for her work continued to be treated as irrelevant to assessment of harm, her character defects in general could be cited a potential sources of unwitting contamination for audiences, to be rooted out by brave scholars and exposed to the light.

Against this background, then, Lydia Tár comes across as out of fashion in several senses, despite all the beautiful clothes and glamorous accoutrements. Not only does she refuse to run her personal life according to dictates of priggish grad students, she also cares about getting the meaning of the masterworks she conducts right — right in their own terms, that is, and not just for what good or bad effects might be had on listeners. Time and again in the script, she stresses the importance of looking past the personality defects of composers to try to understand their specific intentions with respect to a work.

Even as the devastatingly funny final scenes unfold, Tár is still asking her orchestra to think about “the composer’s intent”. And as cold-eyed as the film is about the character’s many flaws, there is never any question raised about her enormous talent and artistry. Equally, though, the film does not pretend that enormous talent and artistry ultimately matter that much any more. Of this fact, Farnham and Alsop’s purely transactional takes on Field’s breath-taking artistic achievement are an additional salutary reminder.


Kathleen Stock is an UnHerd columnist and a co-director of The Lesbian Project.
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Matt Sylvestre
Matt Sylvestre
1 year ago

Outstanding – The Universities loss is UnHerd’s gain…

Matt Sylvestre
Matt Sylvestre
1 year ago

Outstanding – The Universities loss is UnHerd’s gain…

Richard Craven
Richard Craven
1 year ago

“Only women should tell stories from the point of view of women, only black people should fictionalise what it’s like to be black”
Woke makes me want to write a novel as a white man about an African tribal chief with a bone in his nose and a plate in his lip and a great big cauldron in which he cooks white explorers wearing pith helmets.

Linda Hutchinson
Linda Hutchinson
1 year ago
Reply to  Richard Craven

Look forward to reading it.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago

Likewise!

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago

Likewise!

Daniel P
Daniel P
1 year ago
Reply to  Richard Craven

Had the same thought.
I remember in prep school, in composition classes etc., that we were told to tell a story from another point of view, to try to see the world through our characters eyes.
It was a highly useful experience to write a story about a poor Asian sailor in the 19th century. It took research and then struggling to try and write as that person perceived the world. I have found that to have been great practice for what I deal with in my career, where I very often have to deal with people of very different backgrounds and negotiate with them or lead them on a project.

Linda Hutchinson
Linda Hutchinson
1 year ago
Reply to  Daniel P

I remember having to do this at school, too. We all had to pick a subject out of a bowl without seeing what it was; if I remember correctly I had to write about a rich, blind boy in the present day. Not much research done really, I made it all up; I can’t remember if I got a good mark or not, probably middling.

Charles Hedges
Charles Hedges
1 year ago
Reply to  Daniel P

What did your research reveal?

Linda Hutchinson
Linda Hutchinson
1 year ago
Reply to  Daniel P

I remember having to do this at school, too. We all had to pick a subject out of a bowl without seeing what it was; if I remember correctly I had to write about a rich, blind boy in the present day. Not much research done really, I made it all up; I can’t remember if I got a good mark or not, probably middling.

Charles Hedges
Charles Hedges
1 year ago
Reply to  Daniel P

What did your research reveal?

Cho Jinn
Cho Jinn
1 year ago
Reply to  Richard Craven

You can call it “I’m Gonna Get You, Succotash!”

Dougie Undersub
Dougie Undersub
1 year ago
Reply to  Richard Craven

The same rules seem to apply to acting these days. Apparently, all productions of Hamlet are on hold as neither of the two current Princes of Denmark are interested in a career in the theatre.

John Solomon
John Solomon
1 year ago

I saw an all-female production of a Shakespeare play on TV the other day – and about half the cast were non-white.

It occurs to me that if they had been better actors I would not have noticed……….

Bertha Sanchez-Pingarron
Bertha Sanchez-Pingarron
1 year ago
Reply to  John Solomon

Right? The Washington, DC Shakespeare Company has been on this kick for the last few years, with Falstaff being played by fat lesbians.

Bertha Sanchez-Pingarron
Bertha Sanchez-Pingarron
1 year ago
Reply to  John Solomon

Right? The Washington, DC Shakespeare Company has been on this kick for the last few years, with Falstaff being played by fat lesbians.

Bertha Sanchez-Pingarron
Bertha Sanchez-Pingarron
1 year ago

I propose that the next Hamlet should be played by the exciting new star Sparrow X a brilliant triracial obese transgender obese dwarf raised in San Francisco,USA by two autistic lesbian mothers who were always very support of their aspiration to become an actor.

John Solomon
John Solomon
1 year ago

I saw an all-female production of a Shakespeare play on TV the other day – and about half the cast were non-white.

It occurs to me that if they had been better actors I would not have noticed……….

Bertha Sanchez-Pingarron
Bertha Sanchez-Pingarron
1 year ago

I propose that the next Hamlet should be played by the exciting new star Sparrow X a brilliant triracial obese transgender obese dwarf raised in San Francisco,USA by two autistic lesbian mothers who were always very support of their aspiration to become an actor.

Ian Stewart
Ian Stewart
1 year ago
Reply to  Richard Craven

Oh c’mon please, publish and be damned!

Andy O'Gorman
Andy O'Gorman
1 year ago
Reply to  Richard Craven

Methinks it’s all been done before, brilliantly or indifferently.
The whole point of being a great author is that you should be able to write any story from any point of view. Note: Great author. I don’t need to genderise this as it’s not necessary.

Last edited 1 year ago by Andy O'Gorman
Erich Manning
Erich Manning
1 year ago
Reply to  Andy O'Gorman

Exactly! Best suicide scene written ever is Anna Karenina. Poor Old Tolstoy – if only he knew his book wouldn’t be read in the 21st century because he wrote Anna from a man’s perspective. Come to think of it I’d had to burn 70% of novels on my shelf that use something terribly old fashioned called imagination.

Erich Manning
Erich Manning
1 year ago
Reply to  Andy O'Gorman

Exactly! Best suicide scene written ever is Anna Karenina. Poor Old Tolstoy – if only he knew his book wouldn’t be read in the 21st century because he wrote Anna from a man’s perspective. Come to think of it I’d had to burn 70% of novels on my shelf that use something terribly old fashioned called imagination.

Bertha Sanchez-Pingarron
Bertha Sanchez-Pingarron
1 year ago
Reply to  Richard Craven

Witty.

Linda Hutchinson
Linda Hutchinson
1 year ago
Reply to  Richard Craven

Look forward to reading it.

Daniel P
Daniel P
1 year ago
Reply to  Richard Craven

Had the same thought.
I remember in prep school, in composition classes etc., that we were told to tell a story from another point of view, to try to see the world through our characters eyes.
It was a highly useful experience to write a story about a poor Asian sailor in the 19th century. It took research and then struggling to try and write as that person perceived the world. I have found that to have been great practice for what I deal with in my career, where I very often have to deal with people of very different backgrounds and negotiate with them or lead them on a project.

Cho Jinn
Cho Jinn
1 year ago
Reply to  Richard Craven

You can call it “I’m Gonna Get You, Succotash!”

Dougie Undersub
Dougie Undersub
1 year ago
Reply to  Richard Craven

The same rules seem to apply to acting these days. Apparently, all productions of Hamlet are on hold as neither of the two current Princes of Denmark are interested in a career in the theatre.

Ian Stewart
Ian Stewart
1 year ago
Reply to  Richard Craven

Oh c’mon please, publish and be damned!

Andy O'Gorman
Andy O'Gorman
1 year ago
Reply to  Richard Craven

Methinks it’s all been done before, brilliantly or indifferently.
The whole point of being a great author is that you should be able to write any story from any point of view. Note: Great author. I don’t need to genderise this as it’s not necessary.

Last edited 1 year ago by Andy O'Gorman
Bertha Sanchez-Pingarron
Bertha Sanchez-Pingarron
1 year ago
Reply to  Richard Craven

Witty.

Richard Craven
Richard Craven
1 year ago

“Only women should tell stories from the point of view of women, only black people should fictionalise what it’s like to be black”
Woke makes me want to write a novel as a white man about an African tribal chief with a bone in his nose and a plate in his lip and a great big cauldron in which he cooks white explorers wearing pith helmets.

Chris Twine
Chris Twine
1 year ago

What the culture warriors and modern-day Puritans do not realise is what they themselves are artistically producing today (as a socially-just reaction to the oppressive tenor of previous creative types) may well be deemed morally unacceptable tomorrow due to the forces they have unleashed. The Revolution always eats its children.

Last edited 1 year ago by Chris Twine
Bertha Sanchez-Pingarron
Bertha Sanchez-Pingarron
1 year ago
Reply to  Chris Twine

Absolutely brilliant comment, friend. Kudos!

Bertha Sanchez-Pingarron
Bertha Sanchez-Pingarron
1 year ago
Reply to  Chris Twine

Absolutely brilliant comment, friend. Kudos!

Chris Twine
Chris Twine
1 year ago

What the culture warriors and modern-day Puritans do not realise is what they themselves are artistically producing today (as a socially-just reaction to the oppressive tenor of previous creative types) may well be deemed morally unacceptable tomorrow due to the forces they have unleashed. The Revolution always eats its children.

Last edited 1 year ago by Chris Twine
Steve Murray
Steve Murray
1 year ago

In commenting before delving into the links to differing opinions on this film which might seem central to Kathleen’s usual outstanding exegesis, there’s the core point to be made about how each generation interprets artistic products.

At the core of any creation of lasting value is the extent to which it evokes our common humanity, irrespective of the particulars of our individual birth and life circumstances. For anyone to apply a reductive template to artistic merit is, therefore, to somehow diminish and deny their own being. Perhaps that’s the point: the self-disgust which characterises much of critical theory by its projection onto specific groups instead of seeking to understand and come to terms with its well-spring.

To seek to understand oneself can, of course, be painful, and for some seemingly impossible, but the old adage about an unreflective life and the imperative to “know thyself” applies to us all, and one of the key ways to help us unlock ourselves is through immersion in art. Rejection of works which are recognised for their unlocking potential tells us a great deal. Those who do so simply can’t bear their own reflection.

Last edited 1 year ago by Steve Murray
Linda Hutchinson
Linda Hutchinson
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve Murray

the extent to which it evokes our common humanity
Could not have been put better. I have just finished a book written by a Nigerian writer, set in Nigeria with all the characters being Nigerian The milieu may have been exotic and allowed me to get a glimpse into Nigerian life, but the humanity of the characters was something I, as reader, shared, and I could understand their problems, and even see a little of my own life in theirs. This, I think, is the sign of a good novel, not whether it strikes the “correct” political or moral note; I have been able to have sympathy for characters who are morally repulsive in some ways because of the skill of the writer (I’m particularly thinking of William Faulkner, here), Our common humanity with all its faults, this what a great work stirs.

Bertha Sanchez-Pingarron
Bertha Sanchez-Pingarron
1 year ago

Absolutely.

Bertha Sanchez-Pingarron
Bertha Sanchez-Pingarron
1 year ago

Absolutely.

Bertha Sanchez-Pingarron
Bertha Sanchez-Pingarron
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve Murray

WOW! It’s hard to find people in the United States who can so succinctly and state a position such as yours without it turning into idiotic propagandistic Newspeak. Thanks!

Linda Hutchinson
Linda Hutchinson
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve Murray

the extent to which it evokes our common humanity
Could not have been put better. I have just finished a book written by a Nigerian writer, set in Nigeria with all the characters being Nigerian The milieu may have been exotic and allowed me to get a glimpse into Nigerian life, but the humanity of the characters was something I, as reader, shared, and I could understand their problems, and even see a little of my own life in theirs. This, I think, is the sign of a good novel, not whether it strikes the “correct” political or moral note; I have been able to have sympathy for characters who are morally repulsive in some ways because of the skill of the writer (I’m particularly thinking of William Faulkner, here), Our common humanity with all its faults, this what a great work stirs.

Bertha Sanchez-Pingarron
Bertha Sanchez-Pingarron
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve Murray

WOW! It’s hard to find people in the United States who can so succinctly and state a position such as yours without it turning into idiotic propagandistic Newspeak. Thanks!

Steve Murray
Steve Murray
1 year ago

In commenting before delving into the links to differing opinions on this film which might seem central to Kathleen’s usual outstanding exegesis, there’s the core point to be made about how each generation interprets artistic products.

At the core of any creation of lasting value is the extent to which it evokes our common humanity, irrespective of the particulars of our individual birth and life circumstances. For anyone to apply a reductive template to artistic merit is, therefore, to somehow diminish and deny their own being. Perhaps that’s the point: the self-disgust which characterises much of critical theory by its projection onto specific groups instead of seeking to understand and come to terms with its well-spring.

To seek to understand oneself can, of course, be painful, and for some seemingly impossible, but the old adage about an unreflective life and the imperative to “know thyself” applies to us all, and one of the key ways to help us unlock ourselves is through immersion in art. Rejection of works which are recognised for their unlocking potential tells us a great deal. Those who do so simply can’t bear their own reflection.

Last edited 1 year ago by Steve Murray
Penny Adrian
Penny Adrian
1 year ago

I can understand loathing Polanski & Allen as people (which I do) but that does not change the fact that they made some excellent films. But I also reject the reverse idea that “because someone is a good artist we excuse their sadism & cruelty” I can hate Polanski & Allen as people (which I do) I can hate Weinstein as a person (which I do) but all three of these men have made good art that I enjoy. Why is that considered a complicated position? Creativity is not a moral virtue & never has been.

SIMON WOLF
SIMON WOLF
1 year ago
Reply to  Penny Adrian

How many great film directors do you believe were not cruel & sadistic?.Maybe it went with the job.Although of course there would be exceptions.Maybe Allen & Polanski ended up the way they did because as short ‘ugly’ men they could not pull the females they fancied in their youth.Many the ladies in NY and Paris looked down on them.And then Allen & Polanski noticed that the same ladies would throw themselves at any film directors no matter what they looked like.Recommend Paulo Coelho’s ‘The winner stands alone’

Ian Stewart
Ian Stewart
1 year ago
Reply to  Penny Adrian

Never met ‘em, so personal hate and loathing not an option for me. Disapproval of their behaviour yup, but I feel more strongly about the ‘enablers’ around them who did nothing at the time.

Bertha Sanchez-Pingarron
Bertha Sanchez-Pingarron
1 year ago
Reply to  Penny Adrian

I’m in total agreement with you, Penny.

SIMON WOLF
SIMON WOLF
1 year ago
Reply to  Penny Adrian

How many great film directors do you believe were not cruel & sadistic?.Maybe it went with the job.Although of course there would be exceptions.Maybe Allen & Polanski ended up the way they did because as short ‘ugly’ men they could not pull the females they fancied in their youth.Many the ladies in NY and Paris looked down on them.And then Allen & Polanski noticed that the same ladies would throw themselves at any film directors no matter what they looked like.Recommend Paulo Coelho’s ‘The winner stands alone’

Ian Stewart
Ian Stewart
1 year ago
Reply to  Penny Adrian

Never met ‘em, so personal hate and loathing not an option for me. Disapproval of their behaviour yup, but I feel more strongly about the ‘enablers’ around them who did nothing at the time.

Bertha Sanchez-Pingarron
Bertha Sanchez-Pingarron
1 year ago
Reply to  Penny Adrian

I’m in total agreement with you, Penny.

Penny Adrian
Penny Adrian
1 year ago

I can understand loathing Polanski & Allen as people (which I do) but that does not change the fact that they made some excellent films. But I also reject the reverse idea that “because someone is a good artist we excuse their sadism & cruelty” I can hate Polanski & Allen as people (which I do) I can hate Weinstein as a person (which I do) but all three of these men have made good art that I enjoy. Why is that considered a complicated position? Creativity is not a moral virtue & never has been.

Benjamin Greco
Benjamin Greco
1 year ago

You can’t expect much from a generation of consumers whose favorite musical artists are Beyonce and Taylor Swift, whose favorite movies are based on comic books and favorite television shows consist of two-hour ideas stretched to ten. Children raised on Harry Potter and Twilight books will not have very sophisticated views on art. Corporate packaged culture has triumphed and the worst thing art can be now is provocative. To be provocative is to be offensive. To be offensive is to be unprofitable.
This is not the fault of post-modern philosophers who no one has read. We live in a world where people just want to believe, they don’t want to think, and it is our own fault for coddling two generations of children.

Erich Manning
Erich Manning
1 year ago
Reply to  Benjamin Greco

Middle class snobbism isn’t dead then I see. Many of us were raised on Enid Blyton and listened to the Bay City Rollers and the Osmonds (Oooh, I really fancied Donny)

Erich Manning
Erich Manning
1 year ago
Reply to  Benjamin Greco

Middle class snobbism isn’t dead then I see. Many of us were raised on Enid Blyton and listened to the Bay City Rollers and the Osmonds (Oooh, I really fancied Donny)

Benjamin Greco
Benjamin Greco
1 year ago

You can’t expect much from a generation of consumers whose favorite musical artists are Beyonce and Taylor Swift, whose favorite movies are based on comic books and favorite television shows consist of two-hour ideas stretched to ten. Children raised on Harry Potter and Twilight books will not have very sophisticated views on art. Corporate packaged culture has triumphed and the worst thing art can be now is provocative. To be provocative is to be offensive. To be offensive is to be unprofitable.
This is not the fault of post-modern philosophers who no one has read. We live in a world where people just want to believe, they don’t want to think, and it is our own fault for coddling two generations of children.

Ethniciodo Rodenydo
Ethniciodo Rodenydo
1 year ago

“..ruthlessly ambitious, amoral narcissist. Major character flaws include deceit, habitual philandering with junior acolytes, and an unrepentant taste for revenge.
Sound like a profile of 95% of very successful people.
That is what it takes

Bertha Sanchez-Pingarron
Bertha Sanchez-Pingarron
1 year ago

Hahaha, that’s right!

Bertha Sanchez-Pingarron
Bertha Sanchez-Pingarron
1 year ago

Hahaha, that’s right!

Ethniciodo Rodenydo
Ethniciodo Rodenydo
1 year ago

“..ruthlessly ambitious, amoral narcissist. Major character flaws include deceit, habitual philandering with junior acolytes, and an unrepentant taste for revenge.
Sound like a profile of 95% of very successful people.
That is what it takes

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago

“There are other signs too that, as a culture, we’re increasingly incapable of reacting to art except in the crudest of moralised or politicised terms.”

Thus then time to jettison the “big lie” and return to the glories of the Ancient World?
“The unexamined life is not worth living“- Socrates.
“know thyself” – Aeschylus.

Last edited 1 year ago by CHARLES STANHOPE
B Emery
B Emery
1 year ago

That seems to have gone down better than last time.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago
Reply to  B Emery

Yes indeed Ms Emery, but only because ‘they’ are probably pondering about what the ‘big lie’ is.

Still a disappointing plus 10 when I expected minus 20. Must try harder!

B Emery
B Emery
1 year ago

I agree. Plus 12 now though!
Bring back the Classics.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago
Reply to  B Emery

Too late I’m afraid!
Unless off course you are ‘home schooling’.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago
Reply to  B Emery

Too late I’m afraid!
Unless off course you are ‘home schooling’.

B Emery
B Emery
1 year ago

I agree. Plus 12 now though!
Bring back the Classics.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago
Reply to  B Emery

Yes indeed Ms Emery, but only because ‘they’ are probably pondering about what the ‘big lie’ is.

Still a disappointing plus 10 when I expected minus 20. Must try harder!

B Emery
B Emery
1 year ago

That seems to have gone down better than last time.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago

“There are other signs too that, as a culture, we’re increasingly incapable of reacting to art except in the crudest of moralised or politicised terms.”

Thus then time to jettison the “big lie” and return to the glories of the Ancient World?
“The unexamined life is not worth living“- Socrates.
“know thyself” – Aeschylus.

Last edited 1 year ago by CHARLES STANHOPE
Jimmy Snooks
Jimmy Snooks
1 year ago

It must have been very unpleasant for Kathleen Stock to suffer what she did at the hands of the cowardly university where she was employed. I wouldn’t wish that on anybody, yet out of this quagmire has emerged a writer of spectacular quality and insight. The academy has therefore (unwittingly) performed a valuable service to us all.

Last edited 1 year ago by Jimmy Snooks
Jimmy Snooks
Jimmy Snooks
1 year ago

It must have been very unpleasant for Kathleen Stock to suffer what she did at the hands of the cowardly university where she was employed. I wouldn’t wish that on anybody, yet out of this quagmire has emerged a writer of spectacular quality and insight. The academy has therefore (unwittingly) performed a valuable service to us all.

Last edited 1 year ago by Jimmy Snooks
Andrew Dalton
Andrew Dalton
1 year ago

“To have an opportunity to portray a woman in that role and to make her an abuser — for me that was heartbreaking. There are so many men — actual, documented men — this film could have been based on but, instead, it puts a woman in the role but gives her all the attributes of those men.”

I’ve no idea about the production process this movie went through, but my guess courtesy of William of Ockham is this. It was originally intended to be a male protagonist but the Diversity Inclusion and Equity team got involved and pointed out they needed a female lead (possibly also pointing out it would help with the ESG risk score). The script was hastily rewritten and the main character was gender swapped.

On a more serious note, I think you’ve linked to the wrong Monster – you have the Japaenese anime, Naoki Urasawa’s Monster. That one is actually worth watching, IMO.

Andrew Dalton
Andrew Dalton
1 year ago

“To have an opportunity to portray a woman in that role and to make her an abuser — for me that was heartbreaking. There are so many men — actual, documented men — this film could have been based on but, instead, it puts a woman in the role but gives her all the attributes of those men.”

I’ve no idea about the production process this movie went through, but my guess courtesy of William of Ockham is this. It was originally intended to be a male protagonist but the Diversity Inclusion and Equity team got involved and pointed out they needed a female lead (possibly also pointing out it would help with the ESG risk score). The script was hastily rewritten and the main character was gender swapped.

On a more serious note, I think you’ve linked to the wrong Monster – you have the Japaenese anime, Naoki Urasawa’s Monster. That one is actually worth watching, IMO.

Mark Melvin
Mark Melvin
1 year ago

Are there any movies being made that are simple entertainment? Fun, in other words? This one sounds like yet another endlessly long rant by someone nobody really cares about. Yet the movie makers wonder why people aren’t going to the cinema any longer.

Mark Melvin
Mark Melvin
1 year ago

Are there any movies being made that are simple entertainment? Fun, in other words? This one sounds like yet another endlessly long rant by someone nobody really cares about. Yet the movie makers wonder why people aren’t going to the cinema any longer.

Christopher Chantrill
Christopher Chantrill
1 year ago

I think this is all rubbish. Who cares about a super-heroine conductor? Fake, fake, fake.
What I want is an opera about “The Life of Nietzsche.” Obviously the soprano would be his rich Russian love interest Lou Salomé, and the contralto would be his Nazi sister Elizabeth.
But I think that the music should be a collaboration between a “white” composer, an East Asian composer and a South Asian composer.
It is high time that we blend these great music traditions, and the fact that we haven’t thus far is out-and-out racist. And I blame the global educated class for its out-and-out bigotry.

Last edited 1 year ago by Christopher Chantrill
AJ Mac
AJ Mac
1 year ago

Heavy-handed but amusing satire upon second reading. The Global Educated Class–ha! Thumbs up in defiance of the elite commentariat.

AJ Mac
AJ Mac
1 year ago

Heavy-handed but amusing satire upon second reading. The Global Educated Class–ha! Thumbs up in defiance of the elite commentariat.

Christopher Chantrill
Christopher Chantrill
1 year ago

I think this is all rubbish. Who cares about a super-heroine conductor? Fake, fake, fake.
What I want is an opera about “The Life of Nietzsche.” Obviously the soprano would be his rich Russian love interest Lou Salomé, and the contralto would be his Nazi sister Elizabeth.
But I think that the music should be a collaboration between a “white” composer, an East Asian composer and a South Asian composer.
It is high time that we blend these great music traditions, and the fact that we haven’t thus far is out-and-out racist. And I blame the global educated class for its out-and-out bigotry.

Last edited 1 year ago by Christopher Chantrill
Linda Hutchinson
Linda Hutchinson
1 year ago

Comment removed because I wrote absolute rubbish.

Last edited 1 year ago by Linda Hutchinson
AJ Mac
AJ Mac
1 year ago

Do you mean “true to life”? The character is fictional.

AJ Mac
AJ Mac
1 year ago

Do you mean “true to life”? The character is fictional.

Linda Hutchinson
Linda Hutchinson
1 year ago

Comment removed because I wrote absolute rubbish.

Last edited 1 year ago by Linda Hutchinson
William Shaw
William Shaw
1 year ago

I recently finished reading The Expanse science fiction series; an excellent collection of books from two very talented authors. I’ve now returned to The Game of Thrones collection, which has so much more to offer than the television production.
I’m pretty sure that the authors did not write any of these books from personal experience. It would certainly be a great loss if writers, musicians and artists were only permitted to generate works based on lived experience.

martin logan
martin logan
1 year ago
Reply to  William Shaw

But they probably did write using the lived experience of someone else, whom they read about.
Really no other source.

L Walker
L Walker
1 year ago
Reply to  martin logan

The lived experience for the Expanse?

L Walker
L Walker
1 year ago
Reply to  L Walker

Never mind.

L Walker
L Walker
1 year ago
Reply to  L Walker

Never mind.

L Walker
L Walker
1 year ago
Reply to  martin logan

The lived experience for the Expanse?

martin logan
martin logan
1 year ago
Reply to  William Shaw

But they probably did write using the lived experience of someone else, whom they read about.
Really no other source.

William Shaw
William Shaw
1 year ago

I recently finished reading The Expanse science fiction series; an excellent collection of books from two very talented authors. I’ve now returned to The Game of Thrones collection, which has so much more to offer than the television production.
I’m pretty sure that the authors did not write any of these books from personal experience. It would certainly be a great loss if writers, musicians and artists were only permitted to generate works based on lived experience.

Mark epperson
Mark epperson
1 year ago

It’s the media! We no longer have journalists or real news sites with any integrity. They are nothing but propaganda sites, staffed by folks who sold their integrity and souls a long, long time ago for a few shekels. Gen Z is no worse than any other generation, it is the folks whose critical thinking skills are either non-existent or have sacrificed them to how they “feel”.and that is spread over every generation.
The media, coupled with our slimy politicians, bureaucrats, and tech parasites are in lockstep on their agenda. They are doing it very well and unless folks start “feeling” about the state of their communities, not just their little bubbles, it ain’t gonna get better any time soon.

Mark epperson
Mark epperson
1 year ago

It’s the media! We no longer have journalists or real news sites with any integrity. They are nothing but propaganda sites, staffed by folks who sold their integrity and souls a long, long time ago for a few shekels. Gen Z is no worse than any other generation, it is the folks whose critical thinking skills are either non-existent or have sacrificed them to how they “feel”.and that is spread over every generation.
The media, coupled with our slimy politicians, bureaucrats, and tech parasites are in lockstep on their agenda. They are doing it very well and unless folks start “feeling” about the state of their communities, not just their little bubbles, it ain’t gonna get better any time soon.

Betsy Arehart
Betsy Arehart
1 year ago

If the character, actions and morals of artists were the preeminent criteria of the worth of their art, I fear there would be very few to appreciate. Artists as a whole are a notoriously flakey bunch.

Danielle Treille
Danielle Treille
1 year ago
Reply to  Betsy Arehart

They are also… human, with all the qualities and flaws this entails.

Danielle Treille
Danielle Treille
1 year ago
Reply to  Betsy Arehart

They are also… human, with all the qualities and flaws this entails.

Betsy Arehart
Betsy Arehart
1 year ago

If the character, actions and morals of artists were the preeminent criteria of the worth of their art, I fear there would be very few to appreciate. Artists as a whole are a notoriously flakey bunch.

Allison Barrows
Allison Barrows
1 year ago

The last movie I saw in a theatre was “1917”. This will be the next one. Thanks, Kathleen!

Allison Barrows
Allison Barrows
1 year ago

The last movie I saw in a theatre was “1917”. This will be the next one. Thanks, Kathleen!

Ian Stewart
Ian Stewart
1 year ago

The ‘Death of the Author craze’ – It never ceases to amuse me how pop songs are ignorantly reinterpreted by listeners. A great example is “Every Breath She Takes” by The Police, which most people view as a romantic song – it’s even played at weddings! It’s about a person obsessively stalking his lover, and an impressively strong piece on that subject too.

On the re-evaluation of artists – I saw Gary Glitter live at University in the seventies, when his act was viewed as a ironically cool in its campiness, and he was brilliant. It’ll never be despoiled in my memory by his subsequent misbehaviour.

AC Harper
AC Harper
1 year ago
Reply to  Ian Stewart

I was thinking about him as I read the article and comments. He has been convicted of some serious crimes… and I can’t recall hearing any of his songs played on the radio since then. So clearly someone has been unable to separate the man from his works.

AC Harper
AC Harper
1 year ago
Reply to  Ian Stewart

I was thinking about him as I read the article and comments. He has been convicted of some serious crimes… and I can’t recall hearing any of his songs played on the radio since then. So clearly someone has been unable to separate the man from his works.

Ian Stewart
Ian Stewart
1 year ago

The ‘Death of the Author craze’ – It never ceases to amuse me how pop songs are ignorantly reinterpreted by listeners. A great example is “Every Breath She Takes” by The Police, which most people view as a romantic song – it’s even played at weddings! It’s about a person obsessively stalking his lover, and an impressively strong piece on that subject too.

On the re-evaluation of artists – I saw Gary Glitter live at University in the seventies, when his act was viewed as a ironically cool in its campiness, and he was brilliant. It’ll never be despoiled in my memory by his subsequent misbehaviour.

Jan Brogan
Jan Brogan
1 year ago

I actually feel differently than most people. I found it refreshing, honest and elevating to women to say, hey, power can corrupt them, too. I had trouble with the editing of the movie, the slow, slow, slow opening and set up that didn’t mesh with the action ending.

Claire England
Claire England
1 year ago
Reply to  Jan Brogan

Haven’t seen the movie but I agree with your point. Women won’t have equal rights until horrible people who are female are seen simply as horrible people and not a retrograde outlier / betrayer of our sex. Being a part of an oppressed group doesn’t confer goodness, let alone sainthood – you can have been harmed by an “ism” and still be a terrible person ( isn’t that why criminals are afforded lawyers, no matter how obvious their guilt?).

Claire England
Claire England
1 year ago
Reply to  Jan Brogan

Haven’t seen the movie but I agree with your point. Women won’t have equal rights until horrible people who are female are seen simply as horrible people and not a retrograde outlier / betrayer of our sex. Being a part of an oppressed group doesn’t confer goodness, let alone sainthood – you can have been harmed by an “ism” and still be a terrible person ( isn’t that why criminals are afforded lawyers, no matter how obvious their guilt?).

Jan Brogan
Jan Brogan
1 year ago

I actually feel differently than most people. I found it refreshing, honest and elevating to women to say, hey, power can corrupt them, too. I had trouble with the editing of the movie, the slow, slow, slow opening and set up that didn’t mesh with the action ending.

Antonino Ioviero
Antonino Ioviero
1 year ago

“For another, there’s the perceived prohibition on authors writing “outside of their own identities”. Only women should tell stories from the point of view of women”

Is this really the case in academic and artistic circles?

If so, this should qualify as an exemplar of trans exclusion.

Antonino Ioviero
Antonino Ioviero
1 year ago

“For another, there’s the perceived prohibition on authors writing “outside of their own identities”. Only women should tell stories from the point of view of women”

Is this really the case in academic and artistic circles?

If so, this should qualify as an exemplar of trans exclusion.

Gayle Rosenthal
Gayle Rosenthal
1 year ago

In the academic and snooty world of nose cutting and face spiteing, just re-read Brer Rabbit and the Tar Baby. Or is that too American ? It’s not about excellence any more. And maybe it never has been. We’re all of us, male and female, grand and petty at the same time.Lydia got replaced by a male conductor, and a second rate one at that, in her opinion. Lydia was left in the briar patch where she started from. The question is – who is the fox and who is the rabbit ?

Last edited 1 year ago by Gayle Rosenthal
Gayle Rosenthal
Gayle Rosenthal
1 year ago

In the academic and snooty world of nose cutting and face spiteing, just re-read Brer Rabbit and the Tar Baby. Or is that too American ? It’s not about excellence any more. And maybe it never has been. We’re all of us, male and female, grand and petty at the same time.Lydia got replaced by a male conductor, and a second rate one at that, in her opinion. Lydia was left in the briar patch where she started from. The question is – who is the fox and who is the rabbit ?

Last edited 1 year ago by Gayle Rosenthal
Dougie Undersub
Dougie Undersub
1 year ago

Alsop did a great job at whipping the previously distinctly mediocre Bournemouth Symphony Orchestra into shape. Pity she can’t let her baton speak for her.

Dougie Undersub
Dougie Undersub
1 year ago

Alsop did a great job at whipping the previously distinctly mediocre Bournemouth Symphony Orchestra into shape. Pity she can’t let her baton speak for her.

Paddy Secretan
Paddy Secretan
1 year ago

Why do we have to endure these ridiculous articles about ridiculous people and ridiculous goings on?

Paddy Secretan
Paddy Secretan
1 year ago

Why do we have to endure these ridiculous articles about ridiculous people and ridiculous goings on?

Nona Yubiz
Nona Yubiz
1 year ago

One reason I can think of why “as a culture, we’re increasingly incapable of reacting to art except in the crudest of moralised or politicised terms”: what we call “art” is commerce. And I agree with Marin Alsop. Because the orchestra world is so very small, representations like this take on larger meaning. “Tar” puts a narcissistic, male conductor in drag and calls him a lesbian. Tiresome.

Nona Yubiz
Nona Yubiz
1 year ago

One reason I can think of why “as a culture, we’re increasingly incapable of reacting to art except in the crudest of moralised or politicised terms”: what we call “art” is commerce. And I agree with Marin Alsop. Because the orchestra world is so very small, representations like this take on larger meaning. “Tar” puts a narcissistic, male conductor in drag and calls him a lesbian. Tiresome.

Nicky Samengo-Turner
Nicky Samengo-Turner
1 year ago

Tar? what as in ” Tar Guv’nor when one gives ones cabbie a tip? or, if one is a more sophisticated heome ceounties aspirant wonne says ” Asphalt” or ” Tarmacadam”, of course…

Nicky Samengo-Turner
Nicky Samengo-Turner
1 year ago

Tar? what as in ” Tar Guv’nor when one gives ones cabbie a tip? or, if one is a more sophisticated heome ceounties aspirant wonne says ” Asphalt” or ” Tarmacadam”, of course…

Seth Edenbaum
Seth Edenbaum
1 year ago

It’s a kitsch fantasy of the artist, with a kitsch ending. No one so serious and self-important would ever end up conducting film scores before an audience of autistic cosplayers. She’d be conducting Shostakovich in Krakow and Budapest and writing in Unherd. Field belongs with Todd Haynes: the misogynist fetishizing of women, turning them into f*****g drag queens.

Seth Edenbaum
Seth Edenbaum
1 year ago

It’s a kitsch fantasy of the artist, with a kitsch ending. No one so serious and self-important would ever end up conducting film scores before an audience of autistic cosplayers. She’d be conducting Shostakovich in Krakow and Budapest and writing in Unherd. Field belongs with Todd Haynes: the misogynist fetishizing of women, turning them into f*****g drag queens.