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Welcome to the Tory apocalypse Conservatism came to conference to die

The Last Judgement (Ian Forsyth/Getty Images)


October 6, 2022   5 mins

Last year, the Conservative Party was in the grip of decadence. This year, it faces apocalypse. Their 2021 conference, in Manchester, was like The Wolf of Wall Street. Wine poured from the sky. Laughter ricocheted off the walls. They all thought, everyone did, that the Conservatives had another decade in power.

This year, in Birmingham, it was more 28 Days Later. The list of absent MPs, led by Boris Johnson and Rishi Sunak, stretched back to London. “There’s nobody here,” one member who attended the last 12 conferences mourned. “It feels deserted.” Twelve long years. We have tasted every philosophical flavour of Conservatism: David Cameron’s bougie-patrician, nudge theory-driven paternalism. Theresa May’s fretful Home Counties authoritarianism. Boris Johnson’s giggly One Nation boosterism. All gone. 

We have watched iteration after iteration of big ideas guru try to stir the Tories’ heavy dough. We have seen Steve Hilton pad around Downing Street in his bare feet, intent on squeezing the entire civil service into Somerset House. We have seen Nick Timothy celebrated as an intellectual, for his beard as much as his brain. We have seen Dominic Cummings somersault from blogger, to Rasputin, to blogger again. How many of their plans — other than Cummings’s Brexit, which he was swiftly bereaved of after squabbling with Johnson’s wife — have actually stuck to anything? They’ve all gone. 

We are left with Liz Truss, and Kwasi Kwarteng, both anonymously described as “dead” before anyone even arrived at New Street station. The Prime Minister’s “growth plan” has to work, and quickly. Labour’s poll-lead is as large as 33 points. Young conservatives filled Birmingham’s bars, happily blabbing that they will vote for Keir Starmer in 2024. “A 1997 wipeout might be the best we can hope for,” said one spad. 

It really might be. For four days the Tories behaved like demons ambling across a tortured Hieronymus Bosch landscape. They squabbled and scourged and scratched at each other; so insular; entirely twisted up within their own canvas, seeming to forget that the rest of the country could see the black paint they were smearing everywhere. They fought over the Chancellor’s 45p tax cut U-turn; they fought over benefits; they fought over Suella Braverman and Michael Gove. 

“We are CONSERVATIVES,” boomed Kwasi Kwarteng during his Monday afternoon keynote. But the truth is, after 12 contorted years, none of them are sure what a conservative is anymore. Was Kwasi Kwarteng a conservative? Here was a man who was probably happiest picking through the back stacks of the London Library, cheerfully collecting obscure books on economic theory, shouting lines that could have been written for a dumbo libertarian congressman from Alabama. 

Was Kemi Badenoch a conservative? Yes, said Conor Burns, MP for Bournemouth West. He suggested she was “the future of the party” and understands the need to “move beyond Instagram posts about free trade agreements”. Was Jacob Rees-Mogg a conservative? He floated around the fringe like a page torn from a Max Beerbohm essay, bantering about sending his children up chimneys, and thundering about a “return to common law principles”. The members loved him, they have always loved him, and as ever, they confused his impotent sarcasm for Wildean drollery. “What is my job?” he mused rhetorically at one event, and I was worried that someone might tell him: nobody knows anymore.

From the rubble, two conservative visions began to emerge. First, there was Michael Gove’s. He moved sprucely around the conference, making what political journalists call “interventions” and firing what the armaments industry describe as “missiles”. Watching Gove at an UnHerd event on Tuesday afternoon, you could sense how good it was to be out of this government. He looked relaxed; in his conversation he rippled widely over Michael Oakeshott and Malcolm X, Hamilton and Dad’s Army, Lord Salisbury and TS Eliot. He did not have to say Truss was shambolic — or as she was constantly referred to everywhere here by Tories, a “dud”. When he said the party could only win the next election if it returned to the “bedrock” 2019 manifesto, the point was made. The British people were “Boris Johnsonian”, said Gove. They wanted strong national institutions, strong borders, and “no flights of ideological fantasy”. There was his vision. It was coherent, though until Truss goes, it will be ignored.

The other vision was Suella Braverman’s. Unlike Gove, the Home Secretary spoke to the party, not the country. And she won this conference — the proof was in all the applause she was lavished with. On the fringe, Braverman performed a complex pirouette that managed to undermine both the 45p tax rebels and the Government. Gove and the rebels were “airing dirty laundry in public” — they had staged “a coup”. And Truss and Kwarteng, she implied, had been too weak to stand up to them. Braverman’s vision was Norman Tebbitism, rebooted for the culture wars, performed with jarring sweetness and enthusiasm. “My delight,” she said on Tuesday, “is annoying the Left”. “My dream,” she said, “is to see a front page of the Telegraph with a picture with a flight taking off for Rwanda… I’m proud of the British Empire.” “Good girl,” purred a pension-age man in mustard corduroys sat next to me.  

Away from the pride, and delight, and dreams, Braverman’s outlook for Britain was bleak. Here was a country where the “PC Brigade” had infiltrated every institution of national life, the schools, the courts, the companies. Here was a country where drug use destroyed lives, where police took the knee, where pronouns proliferated all over emails, where migration was a flood, where men pretend to be women despite having penises, where nonces get more protection from the law than decent, hard working people. The liberal establishment hung over us all, a thickly overgrown canopy, and only Braverman had a machete sharp enough to hack it away. “We simply cannot go on like this.”

But as with every other whinge and complaint at this conference (and they were legion), the instant thought was: isn’t this your mess? Haven’t you been in charge for 12 years? Why should you be trusted to clean it up? Anyway, Braverman had a solution. Build a new Royal Yacht, and smash a bottle of champagne on its pristine hull. The members adored this, and they adored her, just as they had adored Truss last year in Manchester. 

And how was the members’ new Prime Minister working out? Well.“This is the Institute for Economic Affairs’ world now,” said one lobbyist. “You’re just living in it.” Rationalise taxation by cutting it. Shrink government budgets. Put a smile on the face of wealth creators. Economic growth at all costs. (“Yeah,” a CCHQ worker told me sarcastically one night, “because we never gave any attention to growth before Truss came in”.) 

By Wednesday morning, the situation felt terminal. When Truss brought the curtain down on conference, you could hear the ideological barrel being scraped, perhaps for the final time by this party. Truss described her ideas with simple, repeated words. Growth; delivery. She found her conservatism in the back of a cupboard in Tufton Street. When Truss said she would web Britain with superfast broadband, as Cameron, and May, and Johnson before her had promised, you were left wondering what any of these governments had actually achieved. The “new era” she heralded was making the same promises the others had. 

What Truss said hardly mattered. A consensus already enclosed her, as tall and bleak as prison walls. The Prime Minister was a dud and her plan would fail. Her colleagues said this, the press said this, even the members were saying this. The conference’s bitchy, scattergun in-fights were a series of ribbon-cuttings for the next leadership contest. 

One night I bumped into Gary Sambrook, MP for Birmingham Northfield. I asked him how he thought it was all going. He looked momentarily stunned. A colleague intervened. “Remember what you said earlier Gary?” He did not seem to remember. “That this is the best conference you’ve ever been to?” 

“Oh, yeah, that’s right,” he said. It would have been cruel to ask him to tell the truth, for it was all around us, and had been for days.


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Matthew Powell
Matthew Powell
1 year ago

Ideologically I felt that the Theresa May / Boris Johnson, Red Wall Toryism was exactly what this country needed but the truth is that Covid and the Russian invasion of Ukraine ended any possibility of continuing down that path. You cannot add 500-600 billion to the national debt and persist which a high tax high spend economy.

Truth is, it will feel like we never had the last 12 years of conservative government. We never really had austerity, the books were never balanced, never got the Brexit we wanted, only a slight adjustment in our orbit to the European super state, never saw levelling up, there was no money for it after spending more money saving octogenarians than we will do for every other generation for their entire lives combined. Blair’s constitutional vandalism, remains untouched, even strengthened.

Truss’s is a last desperate throw of the dice and a necessary one, but it will likely fail because no one really believes that we are at a crisis point. Most the public don’t know what inflation is, how it’s caused, most apparently believe that it’s just companies being greedy and the government should just tell them to sell things for less and all our problems would be over. Even if it succeeds, they just draw the conclusion that there was no problem in the first place, take the increased growth, and squeeze every penny of tax they can out of it till we’re back to square one.

They say that the banks knew they were too big to fail, so they didn’t care what risks they took. I’m sorry to say but the public is the biggest of all institutions that has become too big to fail. Our pensions, our healthcare, our welfare, our levels of consumption, our levels of debt, all far exceed what we produce but if anyone should tell us this, we will immediately vote them out and vote in whoever will tell us comforting lies and kick the can down the road one more generation, in the hope that a deus ex machina we emerge to save us. Insulate anyone from the consequences of bad behaviour for too long and they will eventually learn that bad behaviour is a virtue that will be rewarded.

Looking back to 2008, when Gordon Brown “saved the world economy”, I can’t help thinking now, it would have been better to let it die; because the damage that preserving its zombified corpse has done, seems a fate, worse than its death.

Jeremy Smith
Jeremy Smith
1 year ago
Reply to  Matthew Powell

Red Wall Toryism was exactly what this country needed 

Easy to say (you just did) hard to do. Levelling up costs W. Germany c.2 trillion over the last 30 years (that is c.67bn a year). Kohl taxed the Germans (5% solidarity tax) and the country doubled its debt during the 90s.
Let’s say it is 2019, and let’s say that levelling up is going to cost 30bn a year over 30 years. Where is the money. Who/what are you taxing? Are you going to tax the Tory shires to level up Stoke? Levelling up was just BoJo’s BSing – that is all.

 never got the Brexit we wanted

Which one!? Daniel Hannan (and Co.) wanted the Norway/Switzerland model. Is that what you are talking about. Tell me plan (written down) you are referring to?! Or is it Singapore on the Atlantic (how is that supposed to work with Red Wall Toryism you have to explain it).

Blair’s constitutional vandalism, remains untouched, even strengthened.

Parliament can do as it pleases! Did C19 or Ukraine stop the Tories from fixing it?!

Our pensions, our healthcare, our welfare, our levels of consumption, our levels of debt, all far exceed what we produce but if anyone should tell us this, we will immediately vote them out and vote in whoever will tell us comforting lies and kick the can down the road one more generation, in the hope that a deus ex machina we emerge to save us. 

All true! And yet most of your comment is contradictory and highlighted above. If people will not vote for the above where is the democratic mandate?!

Last edited 1 year ago by Jeremy Smith
Bill Bailey
Bill Bailey
1 year ago
Reply to  Jeremy Smith

Comparing East Germany on reunion to the North of England always in the UK is to put it mildly, rather over the top.

Jeremy Smith
Jeremy Smith
1 year ago
Reply to  Bill Bailey

Hence I cut levelling up costs by more than half (900bn vs. 2 trillion)
My question still remains – where is the money?!

Last edited 1 year ago by Jeremy Smith
Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  Jeremy Smith

The upgraded part becomes more and more productive and the cost/debt is repaid out of resultant improved earnings doen the road. After all, that’s what any business does: borrow money, invest it in efficiencies etc and hope to get a return on it’s investment down the road!

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  Bill Bailey

Nope: the political geography is irrelevant. What is relevant is the clear economic gap between two populations and the desire to bridge the gap. Perhaps the desire was, as you suggest never there: merely BJ BS’ing?

Andrew Fisher
Andrew Fisher
1 year ago
Reply to  Bill Bailey

Is it? East Germany was one of the more industrially successful Communist states. The North of England and parts of Scotland and Wales have been suffering for decades from their former over-dependence on a few major industries which became uncompetitive and closed en masse with all the knock-on effects on the economy that entailed. That is not a dissimilar scenario from Germany’s.
In any case ‘levelling up’ was never explained, let alone fleshed out with any policy proposals remotely up to the job. This could have been, if you like, ‘let’s slash taxes and let capitalism do the job’ but there was just dithering, small scale announcements, irrelevant projects such as HS2 (which had nothing to do with levelling up) etc. The criticism of the Johnson government on this topic is completely justified.

Last edited 1 year ago by Andrew Fisher
Andrew Fisher
Andrew Fisher
1 year ago
Reply to  Jeremy Smith

This is reasonable enough comment, but I get really exasperated by the constant ignorant categorisation of Singapore in this debate. That country is without doubt one of the most successful states in modern history, with significantly higher living standards than the UK, and a state that actually works! It is not a laissez-faire free for all as it is endlessly insinuated by a long chalk. There are many aspects to the state’s involvement – but it is a competent high performing state in areas where the state needs to function, and citizens also quite rightly have responsibilities. On example, teachers are selected from the most able in society. Even the ‘authoritarian’ aspect – which includes much less tolerance of theft, ‘minor’ crime and disorder, which are effectively now decriminalised here, could be hugely popular in this country
And one thing that is undoubtedly true, success cannot just be measured solely by how much money is spent. A few politicians say this in the UK, but the overwhelming bulk of public discourse including all politicians in practice, the bulk of academia and the media inherently hold this outlook.
To what extent the UK could learn and implement lessons from Singapore and other Asian societies, which of course have very different histories, is questionable. I’d like to think so, otherwise the outlook is truly bleak for us, but in the meantime let’s not caricature other more successful societies.

Last edited 1 year ago by Andrew Fisher
Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  Andrew Fisher

There is always something to be learnt from other countries.. without exception. Even from more poorly run countries: ie what not to do! Of course you never have a totally like for like situation and so comparisons must be tempered: but allowing for differences yes, we can all learn lessons.
Firstly however we need to lose our highly unproductive superior attitude! Remember the phrase: “Out of the mouths of babes…”

Bill Bailey
Bill Bailey
1 year ago
Reply to  Matthew Powell

A decent summary of the world as it is in terms of where we (and I mean the whole world) are. Though I doubt anyone can fix it now. Far too late. Although biting the bullet and firing up interest rates would be a start for the UK, but it won’t avoid the unavoidable economic crash. Like everyone else, the interest rate required would be unacceptable & it will probably only do what I suspect is inevitable anyway whether we like it or not. This winter is crucial.
As you can tell, I also think it is far more desperate than you portray.
The inflation hammering us now is not the QE/Low interest lockdown inflation, though that is arriving fast. It is a Net Zero inflation that no one expected this rapidly. Net Zero is insanity this side of the mid century, and maybe even the next side too!
Without fossil fuels we will revert to a dark age with life nasty, brutish and short. The irony being the Greens claim that they are saving the planet. Well it doesn’t give a toss. Tell them that and they’ll change tack and say they are saving the planet for humanity. Net Zero is pre-industrial which means billions of existing humanity will die & most of what is left will have lives hardly worth living. I assume the Greens expect to be the new Lords of the Manor.
However, IF that isn’t bad enough, the current NATO proxy in the war against Russia is slicing through the Russian defences so well they are talking about ‘re-taking the Crimea’. That is insane, and Washington better start getting real, because Russia will never accept defeat in Crimea, they’ll use tactical nukes first and where that leads is anyone’s guess, where I fear means we won’t be having any Labour or Tory government for some time.
Quite frankly Labour is unlikely to see power UNLESS the Tories collapse and have an election within 2 months. If there is no election for the next 4 months or so then Joe Public is going to discover, in spades, that this isn’t simply a Truss issue. Although, as an aside, ironically Germany has just done a ‘Truss’ and promised to spend billions to cap energy prices and as a consequence set the EU states off into a strop. ‘Solidarity’ they scream and ‘Germany is messing it up!’
However back to reality. Whoever blew up the Nordstreams did a Cortez on the EU. Now they have no choice but to survive the winter with no Russian gas. There are grave doubts that they can do it. German is already closing down metal smelters and fertiliser plants because they are the massive energy users. No German metal supplies, or very much reduced? Then the Mittelstand is going to struggle and prices rise.
German producer Industrial price index increased to 45.8% compared to last year, Energy 139% and that was August! Come February the UK Joe Public may come to appreciate that in this instance, we truly are ALL in this together. Though in the case of the EU, they may be far more in it than we are.
The UK public may also finally realise that there isn’t one of the GreenLibLabCons who hasn’t got a finger in this most unwelcome pie.

Nicky Samengo-Turner
Nicky Samengo-Turner
1 year ago
Reply to  Bill Bailey

Just watch Germany’s core industral output crumble when the eco sandaloids thirst for electric vehicles consigns 40 pc of German industrial activity in engine building, transmissions, brakes and other components to the bin?

John Turnbull
John Turnbull
1 year ago

Of course we could teach them a thing or two about how to de-industrialise. We used to make cars, nuclear power stations, airplanes, TV sets etc. etc. Now we have the City.

Bruce V
Bruce V
1 year ago
Reply to  John Turnbull

Reading your comment I actually thought at first you were talking about my country (the US). Sigh x 2

Nicky Samengo-Turner
Nicky Samengo-Turner
1 year ago
Reply to  John Turnbull

which produces billions in revenue, and its revenue is paid in the same foreign currency as any other product or export… so perhaps you would like to enlighten us on your view of the difference?

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago

One is real: the other is make believe.. if we all agree the Emperor’s new clothes are magnificent we’ll all be ok! ..or maybe not?

Nicky Samengo-Turner
Nicky Samengo-Turner
1 year ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

a myth of economic ignorance- ÂŁ 1 revenue from financials is actually ” net” whereas ÂŁ1 revenue from industrial is ” gross” and capital cost and investment makes the ” net” lower- do your reaearch?

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago

In the narrow sense yes: you are correct. But if you look at all the ramifications to the state (and its people): and indeed other states, you will see that it isn’t sustainable in a world that refuses to exploited.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  John Turnbull

That went well didn’t it.. the magic money tree died!

Dominic A
Dominic A
1 year ago

Things that belong in the past generally go in the bin; appropriately.

A Nigel
A Nigel
1 year ago
Reply to  Dominic A

Nuclear belongs in the bin? It could be our salvation.

Dominic A
Dominic A
1 year ago
Reply to  A Nigel

I was responding to the comment about a possible German ‘mistake’ of switching to EVs from petrol engines

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago
Reply to  A Nigel

I agree Nigel but the Global Warming Deception people don’t want it.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  Tony Conrad

Deception? Are you insane?

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  A Nigel

..if there’s anyone left by the time they’re built!

Jeremy Smith
Jeremy Smith
1 year ago

Yes, according to VDA (they did a study a few years back) about 40% of the jobs will be lost. Taking into account the aging population you can “smooth” out the job losses.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago

Schadenfreude…

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  Bill Bailey

..some sense at last! I especially appreciate your frank remark: “Who hasn’t got a finger in this …pie”.. and I don’t think that temark can be applied solely to politicians either! It’s time to get real, take the shame, stop the scapegoating, finger pointing and all the bluster! Personally I feel localisation and community support is essential think of all that can be shared (vs covetted)..
And yes, it’s time for a wealth tax! The UKs wealth is estimated at ÂŁ183trn. Even a 1% solidarity levy on all wealth (including home values over ÂŁ500,000) will cover the interest on the enormous dept. 2% will double the effect! It’s time to share.. sadly I suspect the money will instead be spent of razor wire, security guards and bullet proof cars!

Andrew Fisher
Andrew Fisher
1 year ago
Reply to  Bill Bailey

“Net Zero is pre-industrial which means billions of existing humanity will die & most of what is left will have lives hardly worth living”. This is hysterical nonsense which is a precise mirror image of that of the extreme eco fanatics!
Net Zero is probably not going to happen in the arbitrary imposed timescales – CO2 emissions are rising not falling, because of emissions in the developing world. However, there will be an energy transition at some point; and it is already happening. I am never quite sure what exactly is not to like about renewable energy which is certainly now very cheap to generate and generated entirely within our own borders?
Of course, it is obvious that these forms of power are not enough; ok not to the extreme eco activists but they don’t actually think about anything, only virtue-signal. Until we have developed much better storage we will need to continue to use gas. I am all for sensible development of our own resources though a sceptic on fracking.
Fracking won’t work in UK says founder of fracking company Cuadrilla | Fracking | The Guardian
Nuclear doesn’t quite do it here, as it is suitable for stable baseload energy generation, but, yes we also need a big increase in modular nuclear power etc.
It really worries me that parts of the Right are making themselves into a laughing stock if not completely politically irrelevant on this issue. We already have the political foolishness of foisting fracking on the British public, which as we know causes Earth tremors, which is why the previous trials were stopped by the Johnson government. Yes, it works in the US, but surely it is obvious that that is a far less densely populated nation on a continental scale. The UK is a different matter – would you welcome fracking near your house? This is at the same time as opposing wind or solar power developments. In fact, fracking wouldn’t make much difference to energy security but has just become a ‘totemic’ issue for some on the Right.
My concern is that by simply acting as ‘deniers’, parts of the Right are now discrediting any reasonable criticisms, which are many, of the current western state directed policies to Net Zero, including picking technological winners etc.

Last edited 1 year ago by Andrew Fisher
Melanie Mabey
Melanie Mabey
1 year ago
Reply to  Bill Bailey

The Cortez solution looks to be rolling out in other areas too @7.00 ‘an oil distillery in Austria has sustained 240 million Euros of damage in an ‘accident’’ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEIm47oY3Bw

Last edited 1 year ago by Melanie Mabey
Kam M
Kam M
1 year ago
Reply to  Matthew Powell

Bang on the money. So sad, but so true.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  Matthew Powell

A few more scapegoats to add to the list: Blair and Browne ..of course, how did we miss out those scoundrels? And you say we mustn’t add to the list the obscenely greedy profiteers who enjoy a monopoly on life-sustaining goods and services? But we do have to include pensioners especially octogenarians who selfishly wanted to stay alive: of course many didn’t: sacrificed their lives for queen and country! Patriots all! Or did the greedy so-and-sos avail of the NHS first?
An explanatory note on taxation. ALL money (if it doesn’t go abroad or be saved) inevitably goes in income tax, excise duties, VAT, govt licences, permits, etc etc every time a further transaction occurs.. Then the govt gives it back and the cycle starts all over again. That’s the system (simplified of course)..
It follows that if the govt gives it to the wealthy they might invest it or set up business in the UK but being greedy they are more likely to (a) invest it abroad for bigger returns, (b) invest it in non-profuctive ventures (effective bet it on the markets), (c) buy foreign yachts, supercars, villas, world cruises etc. NONE of those helps the UK economy one iota!
If, on the other hand it is redistributed to the poor who cannot afford such luxuries it will be spent on (mainly) UK goods and services: food, beer, hairdressing, toys, utilites etc. locally and quickly: thereby greatly stimulating the UK economy.. that money will make it’s way to the rich but be taxed every step of the way. Voila.. economic growth!
The ‘paltry’ ÂŁ2bn earmarked for the rich (to be largely spent abroad) could instead be given to the poorest 20 million people in the UK at ÂŁ1000 pc. That’s ÂŁ5,000 for a family of 5! They would spend it promptly and locally.. It’s unpalatable to you guys I know but it does makes economic sense!

polidori redux
polidori redux
1 year ago

“Conservatism came to conference to die”
I don’t regard The Conservative Party as conservative anyway.
Oh sure, many of the people who vote for it might be conservative, but those who run it are not, and most of those who represent it in Parliament are not.The MPs are Liberal Democrats at best, Uncommitteds at worst: Men and women who have made the calculation that standing as Conservative Party candidates enhances their chance of being elected.
The point of the Conservative Party is to provide employment for the sons of gentlemen.(Peter Hitchens said that). They can no longer even pass for the sons of gentlemen (I said that)

Last edited 1 year ago by polidori redux
Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago
Reply to  polidori redux

My MP is certainly not conservative. She believes in woke and all that nonsense but they keep putting her forward. Something very wrong in the tory party.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  polidori redux

Check out also the extent to which individual Tory ministers greatly enhanced their own personal wealth while if office. I think you’ll be surprised?

Hugh Bryant
Hugh Bryant
1 year ago

Both parties have reached an impasse. Thanks to twenty years of buying middle class votes with immigration and house prices we’ve wound up with a society in which all the wealth is in the hands of the least useful people and no politician with the policies or the courage to retrieve it.

Jeremy Smith
Jeremy Smith
1 year ago
Reply to  Hugh Bryant

Thanks to twenty years

What happened to house prices from 1980-1997?!

Hugh Bryant
Hugh Bryant
1 year ago
Reply to  Jeremy Smith

Fair point. But it wasn’t until after 2004 that GDP per capita began to fall so dramatically and the possibility of home ownership disappeared for so many. Our current problems are a consequence of Blairite neo-liberalism rather than Thatcherism.

Jeremy Smith
Jeremy Smith
1 year ago
Reply to  Hugh Bryant

UK private sector debt as % of GDP
1979 (Maggie comes to power) -80%
1992 (ERM crisis) – 160%

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  Hugh Bryant

Now ‘you see, that’s the kind of denial that is holding back real solutions.. looking for scapegoats and whipping boys and pointing the finger is just delaying the inevitable. A solution must be found! Truth, accuracy and widespread acceptance of blame is needed. Truth and reconciliation.. maybe a National Government with talented ministers instead of ideological idiots might be a start?

Ethniciodo Rodenydo
Ethniciodo Rodenydo
1 year ago
Reply to  Jeremy Smith

They did not move much

Jeremy Smith
Jeremy Smith
1 year ago

Average house price (real ÂŁ)
1980 – ÂŁ19K
1995 – 55K
2.8x

Ethniciodo Rodenydo
Ethniciodo Rodenydo
1 year ago
Reply to  Jeremy Smith

The average annual wage in 1980 was ÂŁ6k.
By 1997( I could not find a figure for 1995) it had increase to ÂŁ16,500 or 2.75x
Similar inflation meant that ÂŁ1 in 1980 was equivalent to ÂŁ2.55 by 1995 or 2.55x
So as I said hardly at all.
If you take the South East out of the equation it looks even more interesting.
I purchased my first house, a 2 bedroom terrace in a desirable Midlands village in need of some refurbishment, for ÂŁ52,000 in 1987.
I completed the refurbishment and sold it in 1997 for ÂŁ51,500.

Nicky Samengo-Turner
Nicky Samengo-Turner
1 year ago

when I left school in 1972 ÂŁ1 bought 3 pints of beer, a ploughmans lunch and 20 no6 fags in the pub… a top of the range BMW 3.0 saloon costs ÂŁ3, 999!

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  Hugh Bryant

Now that I do agree with! So, wealth is in the hands of the useless and politics is also in the hands of the useless. And politicians are in the hands of the multinational oligarchs and the Woke! Alice in Worderland is starting to look like a documentary!

Russell David
Russell David
1 year ago

The country is in a vastly worse state now than it was 12 years ago – VASTLY, in so many different ways. Immigration, the economy, corrupted institutions, the NHS, the police, the army, public health guidance, education… I can’t think of a single thing that is better.
Maybe that’s because this Conservative govt has barely done one conservative thing.

Warren Trees
Warren Trees
1 year ago
Reply to  Russell David

Vastly worse, but at least we all now accept men with penises calling themselves women! Now that’s progress.

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago
Reply to  Warren Trees

We know they are not real women though but the government thinks they will be very offended if we cannot believe in the lie.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  Warren Trees

It’s just another example of denial: there’s a lot of it about!

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago
Reply to  Russell David

Can the army go to war with a rainbow flag? It doesn’t add up to me. We need real men.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  Russell David

I note you put immigration top of your list: surely its a minor consideration given the gravity of the situation?

George T
George T
1 year ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

UK policy on immigration sums up everything wrong with this country. It should be top of the list. Millions of people moving here, without any checks on who they are or what they believe. And what effect have they had economy? Take for example truck drivers or any other skilled profession, floods of cheap labour has artifically pushed wages down so that businesses can’t be bothered to invest in productivity and the country as a whole thinks its cheaper to let foreign governments pay for training the UKs workforce. What’s happened to the unskilled natives in the UK – well we just call them bums and seem to believe its cheaper to give them benefits. Oh and there’s the big mouth minority who for some reason hate ‘britishness’ who try to shout down any debate about immigration because they see immigrants as a way to dilute the hated ‘british culture’ out of existence. Not that they’re going to admit that small minded identity politics is their main motivation, they like to frame it as a kind of virtous respectability, the sort of thing that you don’t find in British culture. These culture warriors, are the same people who are busy telling anyone who’ll listen the culture wars were invented by the conservative party as a way to win elections. – that’d be the same conservative party thats allowed over a million people to settle here in the last year. The fact is this country could help the worlds poor without inviting millions of not so poor people to live here. The UKs economy has just been transformed into a property based ponzi scheme propped up by cheap labour which has the added benefit of increasing the demand for housing. How did we get here? obviously identity politics on the left and on the right, the believe that the plebs were all thick.

Last edited 1 year ago by George T
Garrett R
Garrett R
1 year ago
Reply to  Russell David

Your cultural exports of various reality shows. Definitely better than 2012!

R Wright
R Wright
1 year ago

Let them die. After twelve years of their faux conservatism perhaps an anti-work, anti-woman and anti-white Labour government might herald the rise of an actual right wing party to restore this country in a decade’s time. 12 years of pandering to multinationals, boomers and foreigners will be the only legacy of this era. It needs to be put out of its misery.

Jay Gls
Jay Gls
1 year ago
Reply to  R Wright

Stoking grievances doesn’t bring about rational common sense.

Andrew Wise
Andrew Wise
1 year ago
Reply to  Jay Gls

Stoking grievances is the central tenant of Labour policy – without a class war they just fade away

Andrew Martin
Andrew Martin
1 year ago
Reply to  Andrew Wise

I look forward to Will talking up the next Labour Government that’s going to bring prosperity to the poor. Problem for Labour is that their idea of rich people is those that don’t go to food banks.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  Andrew Martin

I’m not so sure: a lot of rich people are going to food banks now or will be soon!

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  Andrew Wise

And without air we would all fade away
Which do yoy suppose is little to disappear first? The air or rhe relentless Class war?

Bill Bailey
Bill Bailey
1 year ago
Reply to  Jay Gls

It is a form of mind concentration, rather like being hanged in the morning.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  Jay Gls

Look: we need scapegoats! It’s the British way! Bring in the whipping boys! None of it was “our” fault! T’was them others!

Jeremy Smith
Jeremy Smith
1 year ago
Reply to  R Wright

an actual right wing party 

Tice and Farage?

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago
Reply to  Jeremy Smith

I am sure they will make a much better party if we had the courage to vote for them. It is a shame because Truss is a good leader but they are trying to turn on her. It shows a lot of immaturity in the Tory party.

Jeremy Smith
Jeremy Smith
1 year ago
Reply to  Tony Conrad

Truss is a good leader

she is not, she is trying to do Reaganism without the $.
Reagan almost doubled US GOV debt between 1980-88.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  Jeremy Smith

What about Mosely? ..or is he dead? Who’s leading the BNP these days?

Richard Abbot
Richard Abbot
1 year ago

Though there are conservatives dotted around all over the place there is nothing conservative about this Conservative Party. Peter Hitchens is correct, it is a Blairite party. By believing in progress it has effectively enshrined the New Labour settlement. All this might have been broadly tolerable, but for a Conservative government to become so anti-liberty was the last straw (see lockdowns for exhibit A).
I will dislike a Labour government intensely, but I’ll live with it. What I refuse to live with is a Progressive Party pretending to be Conservative.

Andrew Wise
Andrew Wise
1 year ago
Reply to  Richard Abbot

Well said!

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  Richard Abbot

Surely the Tories have to embrace some level of progress? I’m amazed at this Ludfite approach: maybe someone can explain it to me?

j watson
j watson
1 year ago

The Bolsheviks hated the Mensheviks more than anyone. The same psychological dynamic on display in the comments here albeit opposite end of spectrum?

Next phase is usually start blaming the populace and declare we need we need a Dictatorship of the Masses. It’s the same nonsense just rehashed. ‘Only I am right, only I and a few in the vanguard see it for what it is etc etc’. Narcissistic rubbish.

Our Govt has made bit of a mess of things, albeit some mitigation – Covid/Ukraine. So a change in near future likely. Country has some serious challenges. But we have some incredible strengths many Nations would die for. We just have to find our way back to balance, common sense whilst learning some sensible lessons.

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago
Reply to  j watson

Whatever Boris’ mistakes he was right about Ukraine. We have to support them. We cannot sit by and let a whole country be slaughtered or brought into bondage.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  Tony Conrad

You forget it was the Ukrainians who started the slaughter and continued it for 8 years before Russia invaded (to protect its fellow Russian (speaker)s! Ukraine was/is a corrupt, Nazi loving, degenerate state every bit as bad as Russia itself.. a plague on both their houses. The involvement of NATO has nothing to do with Ukraine: it is simply a proxy war to weaken Russia so the US lef unipolar world isn’t challenged. European NATO members are patsies in an American war! Neither governments nor military establishments care a jot about Ukraine per se.. the US/UK will fight to the last Ukrainian and sacrifice Europe”s prosperity as well!

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  j watson

The trouble is the developing world has actually developed! Former GB strengths (especially given progess is such a dirty word) have been overtaken by technologically smart countries that were ‘behind’ a few years ago.. Also GB has ditched its manufacturing base thanks to bean counters who opted for cheap labour costs in China and mesmerising supply chains that couldn’t possibly stand disruption. And the city gents worked out money could grow on trees even without the trees! It’s been a huge con job or Con job! A gilt edged Ponzi scheme and now the game is up.
You’d better list all those GB advantages (“that other countries would die for”) and maybe even enhance them AFAP as they do not appear to be widely appreciated across a rapidly changing world!
You could also stop blaming the unfortunate immigrants and sexually confused, neither of whom have had hand, act or part in the current fiasco

David Lea-Smith
David Lea-Smith
1 year ago

The country is living beyond its means and neither political party and likely a majority of the UK population are unable to recognise this reality. This is a major issue in most western countries. 10 year gilts are currently 4.179% and are still rising. Soon the government will be unable to finance its debt other than through QE, further increasing inflation. If any political party came forward, did the right thing and said that government spending needed to be massively cut, likely by >10% of GDP, they would get crushed in an election. Will be interesting to see what happens when the money runs out.

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago

I believe Truss has already said that.

Jeremy Smith
Jeremy Smith
1 year ago

Too true.
Schroeder did the right thing for Germany (Agenda 2010) and he lost re-election. There is the lesson for anyone in politics. Do the right thing and get wiped out.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  Jeremy Smith

As the Tories are bound yo be wiped out anyway there is nothing stopping them from doing the “right thing” is there? except the vain hope they’ll be re-elected: once they realise thst is quiye hopeless they can go gor broke.. maybe that’s not quite the right phrase but, well, you know..

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  Jeremy Smith

Don’t we call that patriotism? Surely that must be one of the better traits of Toryism?

James Kirk
James Kirk
1 year ago

In nautical terms the idea of steerage way applies. No flow of water, the rudder is useless. No money flow is the same. The lower paid will suffer either way, a matter of when if money flow stops. Bread and circuses, the Romans knew that.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  James Kirk

You’ve got the circus in the Ukraine war. All ye need now is the bread..

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago

We had a similar situation in rhe 70s.. The Opposition party promised much but, on being elected said: “OMG we’ve looked at the books: things are much, much worse than the outgoing govt told us all! Sorry citizens but there’s nothing for it but serious cutbacks in every direction until we rebalance the books! But we’ll fulfil all of our promises after that..”
The citizenry accepted it and austerity was applied like a vice but we blamed the previous government, not the new one. The previous govt hadn’t a leg to stand on and neither will the Tories!

Jeremy Smith
Jeremy Smith
1 year ago

The party has been in power for 12 years. It is exhausted. A defeat and 10 years in opposition it is the right thing for the Party.
The Brexit coalition (Poor North, Rich South) is unstable, and no GOV can deliver to both sides.

Bill Bailey
Bill Bailey
1 year ago
Reply to  Jeremy Smith

Don’t worry, very soon everywhere is going to be poor, and I don’t just mean the UK.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  Bill Bailey

I think that’s schadenfreude isn’t it? Happy to be hungry porived the neighbour is starving?

Andrew M
Andrew M
1 year ago
Reply to  Jeremy Smith

The party has not really been in power for 12 years. The coalition government was hampered by the Lib Dems, the pragmatism of the time. The next government was hampered, to put it mildly, by Cameron’s duplicitous attempt to hoodwink the country into rubber-stamping EU membership, and then the party’s treacherous attempts to overturn the decision of the voters. I consider it to be 7 years of waste, deception and internecine warfare, and ‘screw the country’ attitude.

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago
Reply to  Andrew M

Cameron and May were woke so that time doesn’t count.

Jeremy Smith
Jeremy Smith
1 year ago
Reply to  Andrew M

The party has not really been in power for 12 years

The Tory party should tell that to the voters – let’s see how they feel about it.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  Andrew M

Yes “screw the country” and don’t forget “fÂżck business” as well!

Jonathan Castro
Jonathan Castro
1 year ago
Reply to  Jeremy Smith

Exhausted from what? It hasn’t done anything, apart from botch Brexit, ignore illegal immigration and waste ÂŁ400bn on unnecessary lockdowns.

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago

Plus the Green deception which is wasting a lot of our resources.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago

..can you cost the other two as well (as lockdown waste at ÂŁ400,000,000,000! The Brexit fiasco will be a huge figure as well I imagine but surely the illegal immigration cost is paltry by compartison? ..especially of you deduct the contribution made by immigrants once accepted.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

Okay, apart from the Lib Dems and Greens and Cameron’s duplicity and May’s treachery and BJ’s giveaways and the EU’s bad faith what have the Tories ever done for us?

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  Jeremy Smith

Maybe you can offload Viking England (the North) with Scotland when they exit? I jest..

John Ramsden
John Ramsden
1 year ago

It’s darkest before dawn. But then it’s also darkest before the pyroclastic flow tumbles down the volcano towards you!

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago
Reply to  John Ramsden

Where is your hope? There is always hope. Giving up will not help anybody.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  Tony Conrad

A firm grasp of reality will help: denial, wishful thinking, ridiculing all opposition and defending the indefensible is what helps no one. Once that nettle is grasped the is some hope: but not until then.
Step 2: Liz Yruss and the Tories need to call a general election immediately and hand over the reins to Labour..

AC Harper
AC Harper
1 year ago

“Conservatism came to conference to die”
Wishful thinking I suspect. The Conservative Party endures. In the past it has pivoted around significant policies to survive and I expect it will do so again.
Yes, the Conservatives’ immediate situation is a mess. The media narrative is rapturously joining in the kicking – but avoiding tackling the issues facing the country. But perhaps the same old same old comfort zone has reached the end of its usefulness – we could be seeing a Conservative policy pivot from the inside.

Jeremy Smith
Jeremy Smith
1 year ago
Reply to  AC Harper

The media narrative is rapturously joining in the kicking – but avoiding tackling the issues facing the country.

You know about those issues because the MSM covers them.

AC Harper
AC Harper
1 year ago
Reply to  Jeremy Smith

I’m perfectly happy to hear about these issues but I am unwilling to be told over and over how to feel about them, especially in such overblown and cherry picked phrases.
The media would make a mug out of me merely to sell more advertising space. Nothing high minded about their choices of words. ‘The sky is falling’, ‘war’, ‘battle’, ‘financial ruin’, ’10 ways to ride out the economic apocalypse’,’the end of western civilization’, ‘mobs of starving, cold, people’. Really?

David Lonsdale
David Lonsdale
1 year ago
Reply to  AC Harper

It looks as though if you can propagate enough fear in the populace we become easier to control and easier to extract money from. The last two years have demonstrated this very well and I expect it will the norm from now on.

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago
Reply to  AC Harper

They would wouldn’t they.

Jeremy Smith
Jeremy Smith
1 year ago
Reply to  AC Harper

Fine, read DT/DM/Sun/Express…

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  AC Harper

You appear to live in a nice comfy cocoon there? I hope it stays that way for you..

Bill Bailey
Bill Bailey
1 year ago
Reply to  Jeremy Smith

The MSM only covers many issues they don’t like when they have no other choice. The Drax wood scandal has been known for almost 2 years, but the BBC never reported on it until this week. The vaccine scandal was only ever reported in the light of ‘anti-vaxxers’ but now the world’s largest vaccine trial can’t cover up the issues, particularly with the mRNA vaccines. Still the BBC & MSM aren’t reporting much on that. Your faith in the MSM reporting ‘facts’ is heart warming, but sad and misplaced.

Steve Murray
Steve Murray
1 year ago
Reply to  Bill Bailey

I watched the start of Newsnight (BBC2 for our overseas readers) last night to hear more about the protests in Iran, and it covered it well.
However, the programme was preceded by a two-minute long diatribe on how the BBC can be ‘trusted’ with the facts. I’m pretty sure this was in response to the criticism it’s been facing and the threat to its funding – but that two minutes was itself a misuse of the licence fee and mere propaganda.
The comment by Truss about North London townhousers getting taxis to the BBC to spout their opinions was a shaft of light amid the gloom.
The Tories can indeed reinvent themselves, but time is short. They can still win if they somehow manage to bring illegal immigration under control, and if they use the next two years to take on the liberal left establishment in a meaningful way that chimes with majority opinion – the silent majority.
That’s two pretty huge ifs of course.

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve Murray

Truss seems on the ball but she has enemies, particularly those who thought that they should have been prime minister. Acting like children really.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  Tony Conrad

Another red herring..

Frank McCusker
Frank McCusker
1 year ago
Reply to  Tony Conrad

Out of interest, what ball is she on? Can she yodel while standing on one leg? There must be something she can do.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  Frank McCusker

She does a great impersonation of a 5 phrase parrot!

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve Murray

Illegal immigration is a red herring in this discussion! Equivalent to rearranging the deckchairs on the Britania (or was it the Titanic?)

Dominic A
Dominic A
1 year ago
Reply to  Bill Bailey

So start a non MSM news source. Oh wait – there are tons of them already, and that has changed nothing. In fact the spectacular rise of non MSM new sources, has happened in lockstep with the collapse of politics, society, sanity.

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago
Reply to  Dominic A

Be thankful for the new sources that we have. We cannot live on lies. We need the collapse before the rise. Clear the swamp so to speak.

Jeremy Smith
Jeremy Smith
1 year ago
Reply to  Tony Conrad

DT, DM, Sun, Express, Spectator lie?
Or is it just Guardian, FT, Times?

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago
Reply to  Bill Bailey

They don’t like climbing down and admitting they were wrong. Their response is to change the subject to something else but we know they were wrong all along. The nation’s spiritual side seems to be at an all time low. Perhaps there is a connection there.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  Jeremy Smith

I omitted the MSM iny list of scapegoats and whipping boys.. any more?

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago
Reply to  AC Harper

Truss can do the right thing but it will take ignoring the mass media without chickening out.

Paul MacDonnell
Paul MacDonnell
1 year ago

I attended the 10th anniversary party of Michael Portillo’s election as an MP at Alexandra Palace some years ago and somebody there commented to me that Portillo was always a “university Conservative” – that is he acquired conservative ideas amongst contemporaries at Cambridge and not, as it were, organically like Thatcher. I believe that nearly all Tory MPs are University conservatives now. Certainly they have not internalised any true idea of classical liberalism. Gove, for example, is a social democrat whose slightly psychopathic Machiavellian edge projects “Conservatism” to people who don’t know what Conservativism means – which is nearly all of the parliamentary Conservative Party and virtually everyone else in country.

The Conservative Party is a young man who looks too young to drink – but who is, in fact, old enough – standing at a bar without proof of age trying to impress the barman: “I drink all the time, I’m very good at it.I regularly get so smashed that I start fights in pubs”.

After the Tories are defeated at the next election, as they are almost certainly will be, I propose that a movement of Organic Conservatism be started.

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago

I think Truss is organic.

James Kirk
James Kirk
1 year ago
Reply to  Tony Conrad

That’s an unworthy comment. Not my cup of tea but her neighbouring Labour MP, Lewis, is not fit to clean her patio or toilet. You know nothing about her and speak with the second hand received copy and paste forked tongue of a disgusting troll.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  James Kirk

I thought he meant it as a compliment! Silly me.. ‘sounded to me like he was describing her as a “true blue”?

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  Tony Conrad

It’s kinda hard to reconcile ‘organic Tory’ with ‘LibDem Remainer’ though, is it not?

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago

While I’m hugely critical of Toryism (as opposed to true conservatism) I’ve never considered it to be “Psychopathic Machiaveliism: I shall have to give it some thought…

Paul MacDonnell
Paul MacDonnell
1 year ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

I was referring to Gove – not the party.

Iris C
Iris C
1 year ago

Our democratically elected MPs did not vote for Liz Truss as Prime Minister and it shows.
What was the Chairman of the 22 Committee doing by appointing her without having her appointment agreed by parliament?
No wonder the Conference was a shambles with more absentee MPs than those present

Bill Bailey
Bill Bailey
1 year ago
Reply to  Iris C

A pity that MPs don’t absent themselves from the Commons, and the Lords from the Lords.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  Bill Bailey

No sensible rat stays anoard a sinking ship!

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago
Reply to  Iris C

It was all voted on and she fairly won. Just because one didn’t vote for her having sour grapes will not help the party one bit. Have they lost the desire to serve?

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  Tony Conrad

I believe the Tories (at least) lost that desire a long time ago.. Thatcher said: “There is no such thing as society” ergo mo one to serve! She (he?) alsi said “Greed is good”.. that I feel was the end of any pretence at serving the nation. Clearly both statements resulted in self serving government?

Brendan O'Leary
Brendan O'Leary
1 year ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

Great, another chance to link the full Thatcher quote:
https://rufuspollock.com/2004/12/28/margaret-thatcher-theres-no-such-thing-as-society/

“Greed is good” was from a Hollywood movie, Wall Street.
https://youtu.be/VVxYOQS6ggk in case you didn’t get it , Michael Douglas’s character was meant to be the baddie.

You seem young, if so I can understand you uncritically accepting these revisionist leftwing memes about Thatcher, but it’s a well-recorded period and there’s plenty of source material available , if you can look beyond the commentary.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago

Au contraire: I am very old. I heard Thatcher say it on TV ..her mouth; my ears! If Michael Douglas said it he was probably quoting his idol!
Don’t try to teach your granddad to suck eggs my boy! She explained that individual greed drives economic growth and that was the way Britain would get out of the terrible socialist quagmire it was in.

Andrew Wise
Andrew Wise
1 year ago

I greatly enjoyed the writing in this article, great penmanship if nothing else. 

isn’t this your mess? Haven’t you been in charge for 12 years?

One of the Labour parties oft repeated attacks when they have nothing better to offer themselves – patently true but the ‘new’ leader has to lead & try to create something new … what’s the point of ditching the last 2 leaders if the party doesn’t want a new approach?
Its a pity, but sadly the Tories have lost their sense of direction – the MPs didn’t get the leader they wanted so they are now hell bent on trashing the one the members chose …. that’s a labour party trick, the tories used to be good at doing the staying in power bit but have now forgotten how to do it.
And sadly we have a leader who’s so weak she’s U Turned in the first month of her term in office.
For me the policy choices were good – the abolition of IR35 might even tempt me back to work along with reduced corporation tax – but I guess I’ll just remain an early retiree as its not worth the effort of fighting the system any more.

Eryl Balazs
Eryl Balazs
1 year ago
Reply to  Andrew Wise

Maybe other sectors are different but I work hard in the public sector – health and social care- the only IR35 people I have met were highly paid consultants who took the money and ran – 90% of people in the public sector NHS/ LA etc I am sure would say the same. They never stay around long enough to take responsibilities for their wonderful new ideas and blame everyone but themselves for what goes wrong- bit like the tory leaders.
Labour will inherit an absolute shit show when they get into power- Tories will use Labours inability to fix this overnight – this being the last 12 years of trashing the country whilst watching wealth and workforce seep out the country overseas, to present their alternative plan (again) then the whole merry go round will start again.

Andrew Wise
Andrew Wise
1 year ago
Reply to  Eryl Balazs

Ah, so your idea is to tax the workforce until they go into early retirement – well it works well for senior doctors who are leaving their jobs in droves due to the banners tax system in this country 🙂
I didn’t get sick pay, paid holidays, a pension etc etc – yet you want to treat contractors like me as if they are employees getting all those lovely benefits.

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago
Reply to  Andrew Wise

I’m not sure he said that.

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago
Reply to  Eryl Balazs

Boris was a bit unlucky to be landed with Covid as soon as he got in. I think he will be regretting a few things or I hope he will be.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  Tony Conrad

Thatcher made war over the Malvenas Is off Argentina: that saved her: cost a few thousand lives: and the war crime of sinking the Belgrano..
Liz Truss has the Ukraine and she has threatened the Russians with Nukes.. not enough it seem

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago
Reply to  Andrew Wise

She panicked and should have stuck to her guns but I can understand that in the circumstances. I think she has learned something and will have more courage in the future.

James Kirk
James Kirk
1 year ago
Reply to  Tony Conrad

She and KK foolishly tested the water on 45p too early. It was too hot and scalded them.

Frank McCusker
Frank McCusker
1 year ago
Reply to  Tony Conrad

She didn’t panic. She learned 2 things: (1) you can’t buck the markets; and (2) other party members told her she was toast if she didn’t do a u-turn.

James Kirk
James Kirk
1 year ago
Reply to  Andrew Wise

I would like to bludgeon the Labour front bench, see their heads on pikes and would see their Party wiped off the face of the Earth. I am advised it’s not a good idea and will therefore desist. Have I U turned?

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  James Kirk

I think you may need help old boy?

Nate Higgers
Nate Higgers
1 year ago

Seems that a 80 seat majority breeds complacency bordering on a sense of invincibility.

James Kirk
James Kirk
1 year ago

I’ve survived both Parties for decades; floated on their miniscus forever it seems. To be truthful my best years coincided with Thatcher and Blair, I’ve been married, divorced, partnered, overdrawn, had ridiculous 15% mortgages but never been poor, had children who’ve also survived the above as well as the forgotten Cold War; who’ve produced grandchildren who care or know nothing. This week I abandon politics. Folly to be wise, I will wear a patch on my working eye in this kingdom of the blind, and deaf.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  James Kirk

..and tetire to Bedlam I suppose. It can’t be right that we have to survive governments can it? It means anarchy is a better option. The only real function of government these days seems to be its entertainment value: a kind of unbelievable soap opera for the gullible?

Mike F
Mike F
1 year ago

Strip away the performative wokery, and Starmer’s Labour is a one-nation Tory party. So it’s not just that the Conservatives have run out of road, they’ve been inched off the road by an opposition party steering to the right.
For me, the only question is whether Starmer can hold Labour to their current course. Or perhaps, whether he actually wants to – once he has made them electable, I can see him moving swiftly leftwards where he actually feels most comfortable.
Only then will a new Conservative Party start to emerge, in opposition.
So, a year or so of this utter mess, followed by five years of a Labour Government moving leftwards, and then, after that, the future is unwritten.

Bill Bailey
Bill Bailey
1 year ago
Reply to  Mike F

Starmer has to get elected first, and ‘stripping’ away the wokery means he has to answer truthfully the question he can’t so far.
“What is a woman?”
I suspect he won’t be able to manage that in the next 6 months and as they say even a week is a long time in politics.

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago
Reply to  Bill Bailey

No he cannot admit that male transgenders are not really real women. That shows a touch of fantasy to me and they are backing him for PM?.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  Bill Bailey

If it was me I’d answer I don’t know. I’m neither a biologist nor a psychologist. But I know one when I encounter one!

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago
Reply to  Mike F

He must learn to know what a woman is first though.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  Mike F

With BJ veering to the Left (at least as regards spending) Labour couldn’t find their space. LT et al have lurched to the right and so Centrist Labour have found an electable niche ar last! Fiscal responsibility: who’d ‘a thunk it eh?

Nicky Samengo-Turner
Nicky Samengo-Turner
1 year ago

The consequence of having the below stairs and ” behind the green baize door” running not only the country, but the whole of nu britn…. Just look back at see who actually ran Britain during its great days, and how their demise and the rise of Pooter neatly coincided with our decline?

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago

Who is Pooter?

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  Tony Conrad

A fictional character: lowly clerk with ideas above his station …I think?

Fanny Blancmange
Fanny Blancmange
1 year ago

Judging by how quickly the wheels have come off (irretrievably I wonder) from the supply-side faction of the permanent coalition of spivs that is the party system it gives hope that the gobsmackingly awful Liz Dross leads her party for an even briefer and even more fractious spell than IDS, who seems like a statesman giant by comparison.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago

It’s not “dross” it’s truss, as in plank to support the top..

Peter Scott
Peter Scott
1 year ago

I strongly suspect/fear/hope that it is not only the present utterly non-conservative ‘Conservative Party’ that is on its way out.
So probably are YEARS of fantasy and delusion on the part of a nation living in a dream-world of phony affluence.
For the interesting thing this time around is that all the old expedients CAN NO LONGER WORK.
When the Crunch comes very very shortly governments will not be able to tax, borrow and waste. No-one will lend to them.
They won’t be able to print money any more because if they do the currency will collapse, being universally seen as risible in its lack of backing by any real modus operandi of wealth-creation.- If it has not already collapsed; in which case everyone will shriek with terror at the very notion of QE in any form.
Decades of dodges and scams all meet the same impervious wall – being used up, worn out, exploded.

John Turnbull
John Turnbull
1 year ago

The comments below express eloquently the English obsession with class, superiority and money. One has to travel north to get a sense of community and togetherness. But of course the southern English troops led by Saint Rees Mogg ensure their suppression. After the US we live in the most socially and economically society on Earth.
God save the KING.

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago
Reply to  John Turnbull

Rees Mogg is a very honest MP. Being born into class doesn’t actually stop you from being a down to earth honest person.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  Tony Conrad

Did you say “Down to Earth?” ..yer ‘havin’ a larf in’it?

Frank McCusker
Frank McCusker
1 year ago
Reply to  Tony Conrad

You think a bloke who wears a titfer and was driven around his constituents by his nanny in a vintage Bentley is “down to earth”? Well, one learns something every day …

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  John Turnbull

.I’m trying to guess the missing word/s Is it:
1. Crazy?
2. Backward?
3. Class ridden?
4. Ideological?

Tony Conrad
Tony Conrad
1 year ago

I think Liz Truss will make a very good PM but she faces opposition from power seekers in her own party. Give the lady a chance for goodness sake or you will have a man who doesn’t know what a woman is knocking at the door.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  Tony Conrad

..”there is a loose cannon about to fire sir! Give it a chance lad: it might spin in the right direction and hit the target.. But sir! that’s one chance in 360! Not good odds.. Shut up lad! Show some respect for yer betters!

Ian Stewart
Ian Stewart
1 year ago

Excuse me, is this the Tory libertarian suicide forum?

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  Ian Stewart

Not in my case. I’m the burial detail!

Frank McCusker
Frank McCusker
1 year ago

Conservatism, as in the sense of being cautious and gradual about change, died with Brexit. Labour cannot be conservative, as they’re too socially woke. Ditto the Lib Dems. And the Tories are now a radical English nationalist party of constant change. There are no conservatives left, get used to it.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  Frank McCusker

Time to break out the champagne then? Or is it too soon?

Donn D
Donn D
1 year ago

Party of foreign Oligarchs. Of inequality. Of collapse of civilisation. The Republicans. The party of Putin.

Bill Bailey
Bill Bailey
1 year ago
Reply to  Donn D

LOL – currently the US/NATO and the EU are backing the most corrupt oligarchy of the two corrupt oligarchies, both former Soviet Republics fighting over Soviet drawn borders in a post Soviet world. Sounds like the Balkans Mk2. Better hope it doesn’t lead to WW3.
We should have no dog in this fight, and left them to it. Now the EU’s very existence is at stake and the world is about to change massively. Mind you it does expose the insanity of Net Zero.

Dominic A
Dominic A
1 year ago
Reply to  Bill Bailey

One of those corrupt nations has no nukes,shows a consistent preference for democracy, looks to a hopeful future, and has never invaded anywhere or routinely kills it’s own civilian ‘enemies’ abroad. The other is a kleptocracy by design, not accident, has nukes, is irresponsibly threatening them, hates democracy, imprisons, kills it’s own ‘enemies’ (people who are innocent in an meaningful definition of the word), has just invaded another country in a war of acquisition, and is looking backwards to glory days that never were.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  Dominic A

Ukraine is also guilty of serious oppression and murder of its Russian speaking minority with several well attested atrocities of its own.. a plague on both their houses I say.. No one’s business except those two: so why, in God’s name is NATO involved? Only one reason: to weaken and ruin Russia: Why? Because they dared to threaten the US Dollar and Unipolar world order. We the citizens of Europe are mere pawns in the game: the Ukrainians too but while we pay with our prosperity they pay with their lives.

Frank McCusker
Frank McCusker
1 year ago
Reply to  Liam O'Mahony

That’s a cop-out Liam, get off the fence man

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  Frank McCusker

What precisely is a cop out? Please explain yourself.. we are all of us on the fence here!

Andrew Martin
Andrew Martin
1 year ago
Reply to  Bill Bailey

Net zero by 2030 says Starmer. I just wonder how the poor he believes in will afford EV’s never mind the Energy bills to pay for it.

Last edited 1 year ago by Andrew Martin
Nicky Samengo-Turner
Nicky Samengo-Turner
1 year ago
Reply to  Andrew Martin

Starmer can heat his house by burning all his poly draylon clothing and corfam shoes

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  Andrew Martin

It’ll be the hire by the hour street car system. No one will own any EVs: but they’ll all be happy!

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  Bill Bailey

Net Zeto is exposed but only as a side effect – the waring elephants (including the UK) are surely the main culprits.. The plan is net zero by 2050.. not by 2022! It was all supposed to happen gradually.. it would have too if NATO didn’t shoot its European allies in the foot.

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  Donn D

Huh? Waja on about?

Liam O'Mahony
Liam O'Mahony
1 year ago
Reply to  Donn D

Not sure if you mean the same applies to the UK Tories? Maybe 3 out of 5?