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How the Queen weakened monarchy Long reigns often lead to troubled successions

Will King Charles have an easy reign?


September 16, 2022   6 mins

It is an odd time for my profession. Everyone thinks historians should comment on the death of Queen Elizabeth II. But, at the same time, we are expected to come out with nothing but sententious platitudes. Hearing Sir Simon Schama tell a television audience that “millions of Britons are feeling orphaned” put me in mind of Motley’s description of William the Silent in his History of the Dutch Republic: “As long as he lived he was the guiding star of the whole nation and when he died the little children cried in the streets.” As it happens, I went out onto the streets of my native Birmingham shortly after watching half an hour of Huw Edwards being solemn on the BBC and, I have to say, no one seemed to be crying or, indeed, much concerned with anything except getting dinner.

The death of the Queen might eventually invite more sceptical and wide-ranging reflection. Georges Clemenceau said of the French Revolution that it was a bloc — to be accepted or rejected as a whole; the same is true of the British royal family. Any individual monarch is the product of an institution that revolves around the hereditary principle. Real monarchists must ask themselves whether they believe in this system enough to accept all its potential consequences. Remember that if Prince Charles had broken his neck playing polo in 1976, we would now be awaiting the coronation of King Andrew.

Curiously, a “successful” monarch and, especially, a long reign weakens the monarchy as an institution. During such a reign, loyalty comes to focus on a person, rather than on the Crown as an institution. Note how frequently, in recent years, politicians have answered questions about their views on monarchy with some anodyne remark about their admiration for the Queen. The cult of an individual sovereign increasingly overshadows all other members of their family, including their eventual successor.

That heir, waiting in the wings, will have accumulated a great deal of baggage by the time that they get to the throne — whether that baggage means actresses and obesity (as in the case of Edward VII) or an unsuccessful marriage and a history of publicly expressing political views (the case of Charles III). The problems of a long reign are exacerbated when the monarch is a woman. Partly because they were comparatively rare in British public life until recently, Queens lend themselves to mythologisation.

There are two striking and worrying precedents for what happens when a long-serving monarch dies. The first is Elizabeth I. Her death was followed by an unsuccessful king (James I), a catastrophic king (Charles I), civil war, regicide and, for a time, republic. The second is Victoria, whose death was also followed by a period of turbulence for the monarchy, culminating in the abdication crisis of 1936. I am not being entirely flippant when I say that the First World War was, in some ways, a civil war within Victoria’s own family — in which the English branch came off much better than the German or Russian ones.

Their long reigns served to occlude problems that then came back to haunt the next monarch. Elizabeth I — who refused to “open a window into men’s souls” — was careful to cultivate a useful ambiguity over religion. But that ambiguity was linked to her personal idiosyncrasies — her refusal to marry, for instance, avoided the question of whether she would take a Protestant or Catholic husband — so that it was hard for the monarchy to sustain after her death.

The ambiguity of Victoria’s reign was less deliberate. Her long period on the throne and, particularly, her partial withdrawal from public life after the death of her husband, helped to conceal the extent to which (much to Victoria’s own distaste) the monarchy had lost its political power during her reign. It was significant that politicians did not consider it necessary to call a general election when she died: they had done so as a matter of course after the previous monarch’s death. Still, the monarchs that came after her did not really reconcile themselves to the institution’s loss of political power until the accession of George VI in 1936.

The central ambiguity of Elizabeth II’s long reign revolves around Britain’s relations with the wider world. Before her accession, she pledged herself to serve “our imperial family”. But the empire went in the early years of her reign and was replaced by the Commonwealth — Enoch Powell, always attentive to the precise meaning of constitutional terms, believed that the most important speech he ever made concerned the addition of the letter “s” after “realm” in the Royal Titles Bill of 1952. Elizabeth’s death has now raised awkward questions, long suppressed, about what the Commonwealth itself means and, in particular, whether the British monarch will remain its head.

In some ways, the personalisation of the monarchy is more marked now than it was in 1901 or 1603. This is partly because of other changes in the British state. It is often suggested that every aspect of the constitution hinges on the monarchy. But in some ways, the reverse is true: the institutions of the British can get along perfectly well without a monarch — as was shown during the interregnum of 1649-1660 — though the monarchy has, in the past, been sustained by its relations with an infrastructure of ancien regime institutions.

In 1953, I suspect the Queen herself would have said that being head of the Church of England was the most important of her duties. Now the idea of a state church seems peculiar — most vicars would give you a blank look if you point out that parliament has not sanctioned the prayer book used in most churches. As for the House of Lords, it is now, for the most part, an assembly of retired, middle-ranking politicians — not a single one of the six surviving former prime ministers has bothered to take a peerage. The institutions that have long propped up the monarchy are ailing.

She was also always held to be above politics and often presented as representing an integrity that elected politicians lack. Yet the briefest glance at the register of members’ interests or parliamentary expense claims reveals that MPs most interested in personal enrichment tend to be fervent admirers of the Queen — and keen collectors of honours. One might also point out that two of the most important figures at the court of King Boris (the cabinet secretary, Simon Case, and Lord Geidt, advisor on ministerial standards) had previously worked in the royal household.

For all the talk of the monarchy being “apolitical”, no serious observer doubts that the monarchy serves the interests of the Conservative Party — often, as when George V promoted “National Government” in 1931, serving those interests by going along with the Conservative claim that their own policies were “apolitical”. A group of MPs closely associated with Thatcherism, including Norman Tebbit and Nigel Lawson, wrote an interesting document in 1978. They were struck by the show of affection for the Queen during her Silver Jubilee; they recognised that it might reflect “a deep nostalgia, in part for what is thought of as a comfortable past”, suggesting that they needed to be careful with calls for radical change. All the same, they concluded that the spirit of the Jubilee would work to their advantage: “People will be more attracted by a promise … to restore some of the valued things they have lost than by promise of a vague, bright tomorrow.”

But Conservatives are not quite the royalists they sometimes make out. They are heirs to a political tradition that looks back to the Glorious Revolution of 1688 (when James II was abruptly ejected from the throne) and emphasises the pre-eminence of the parliament — especially the House of Commons. Churchill paid ostentatious deference to the young Queen Elizabeth and took the side of Edward VIII during the abdication crisis of 1936. All the same, Churchill was blunt to the latter: “When our kings are in conflict with our constitution, we change our kings.” He also, as First Lord of the Admiralty, once tried to name a ship HMS Oliver Cromwell.

Conservatives found it easy to be loyal to Elizabeth II because her public statements — in favour of family, nation and the armed forces, and prone, in recent years, to evoke a certain memory of the Second World War — fitted with their own political vision. It will be interesting to see how they get on with a monarch who recently, albeit unintentionally, let it be known that he disapproves of their asylum policy and who has devoted much of his life to drawing attention to the dangers of climate change.

King Charles will, I suspect, not have an easy time. His reign will be relatively short and he will spend much of it in the shadow of his mother. The historian Peter Hennessy recently wrote that his generation (he is more or the less the same age as the King) found it hard to imagine any monarch other than Elizabeth II. Like many remarks that sound conservative, this is, when you think of it, profoundly subversive. Saying a monarch other than the present one if unthinkable is, in effect, saying that the continuation of monarchy is unthinkable.

And, while we are on the subject of unthinkable things, consider the dramatic constitutional rethinking likely to be brought about by, say, the break-up of the union, an attempt to re-enter the European Union, or the creation of a written constitution — all things desired by a significant minority of the population and all things that might raise questions about who should be head of state. For all the talk about centuries of continuity, I doubt if any realistic observer is sure the monarchy will survive for another 70 years. If it is to do so, it needs to get away from an emphasis on the supposed personal qualities of any individual King or Queen and rest once again on the abstract quality of the Crown. Perhaps one day historians will recognise that the most important constitutional commentator of the period was not Sir Simon Schama or Lord Hennessy but Johnny Rotten, who marked the Silver Jubilee of 1977 with the words: “She ain’t no human being.”


Richard Vinen is Professor of History at King’s College, London. His book Second City: Birmingham and the Forging of Modern Britain is out now.


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Aaron James
Aaron James
2 years ago

”I went out onto the streets of my native Birmingham shortly after watching half an hour of Huw Edwards being solemn on the BBC and, I have to say, no one seemed to be crying or, indeed, much concerned”

So this is how you think history works? Go in the streets and see how wild the reaction of the regular people is in their day to day coming and going? I can guess everyone of them reflected back on their life in relation to the Monarchy for some amount of time. Many thought long and hard on it, recalling moments of their life in light of the Monarch. Most would picture the queen, think on what the death made them think – think of Charles, and obviously Markle, and Harry, and Andrew and various thoughts on other things related. Every person in almost all the world took a moment to reflect on that death.

”Perhaps one day historians will recognize that the most important constitutional commentator of the period was not Sir Simon Schama or Lord Hennessy but Johnny Rotten, who marked the Silver Jubilee of 1977 with the words: “She ain’t no human being.””

This article is more part of the death knell of our University System than the Monarchy. We saw what the Queen stood for, and we see what the universities stand for, and we think you guys are the problem, not the King.

Brett H
Brett H
2 years ago
Reply to  Aaron James

“She ain’t no human being.””
Very astute of both Johnny Rotten and the writer, I think.

Alphonse Pfarti
Alphonse Pfarti
2 years ago
Reply to  Brett H

If a certain (probably soon to be former) chip shop owner in Muir of Ord be believed, she was in fact a shape shifting lizard being. So maybe Mr. Rotten was right.

Ian S
Ian S
2 years ago
Reply to  Aaron James

Indeed. A history professor who pokes his head into a Birmingham street and finds nobody crying or, indeed, much concerned? What? This despite Aston Villa lurking just above relegation? This is a professor who doesn’t know what real research is.

Stuart Perry-Hughes
Stuart Perry-Hughes
2 years ago
Reply to  Aaron James

The paroxysms of the armchair monarchists at the slightest criticism of their God-Queen are fascinating

Brett H
Brett H
2 years ago

“Paroxysms.” Where do you see this? In the article itself, or the comments?

Vivek Rajkhowa
Vivek Rajkhowa
2 years ago

Two comments,

1. James I was not a bad monarch, nor was Charles a catastrophe. James was decent, and Charles was a decent man who had a shir heap for a parliament,
2. This guy is a shit historian.

Brett H
Brett H
2 years ago
Reply to  Vivek Rajkhowa

Maybe, but the story is not a historical lesson. Though the idea he’s working towards is in history.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
2 years ago
Reply to  Vivek Rajkhowa

James Stewart was an unwashed, greedy, h*mosexual Scotch bigot, obsessed by witchcraft, yet rated as the “brightest fool in Christendom “ by his contemporaries. It is very sad that Guy Fawkes & Co didn’t manage “ to blow you Scotch beggars back to your native mountains “.
As for Charles Stewart, a complete cretin responsible for the worst civil war this country has ever endured. Need I say more?

Last edited 2 years ago by CHARLES STANHOPE
Chris Hume
Chris Hume
2 years ago

“James Stewart was an unwashed, greedy, h*mosexual Scotch bigot, obsessed by witchcraft,”
He also had a bad side.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
2 years ago
Reply to  Chris Hume

Yes, he couldn’t abide tobacco!

Tony Sandy
Tony Sandy
2 years ago

Yes but don’t (old history now gone). Blowing up the houses of Parliament is a little excessive: let the punishment fit the crime as Gilbert and Sullivan noted

Alphonse Pfarti
Alphonse Pfarti
2 years ago

A Scottish bigot, if you please. Scotch is the beverage with which one bookends one’s evening repast.

Last edited 2 years ago by Alphonse Pfarti
Peter B
Peter B
2 years ago
Reply to  Vivek Rajkhowa

Utterly wrong about Charles I. This was a critical turning point in British history – do we stick with a powerful but incompetent king or prefer a competent and professional parliament. Fortunately we chose competence and thrived as a result.
It is not enough for a king to be “decent”.
Charles I was actually devious and untrustworthy and whilst arguable “decent” as a person was not so as a leader.

Brett H
Brett H
2 years ago

“ … it needs to get away from an emphasis on the supposed personal qualities of any individual King or Queen and rest once again on the abstract quality of the Crown.”
I think this is true. It seems very much like the decline of Christianity. The more human God and the church became, the more it failed to have meaning. The Crown is an abstract quality heading the same way. Elizabeth became more human in our eyes, and Charles more so with his human foibles. I think it’s the mystery men and women in the street have been struggling to elucidate when interviewed. Only actions can really explain this, like the bowing of the head, and all the other acts of respect and dignity carried out on the day of Elizabeth being taken to Westminster. It’s sad, but more than likely true, that the Crown, as we know it, is going. Sad because without it we are lesser. In a way we are bereft without understanding why.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
2 years ago
Reply to  Brett H

Nonsense, we should look forward.
Ancient Rome ‘binned’ its last King, a certain Lucius Tarquinius Superbus in 509BC/244AUC and went on to far greater things, as you must recall.
Once we have disposed of this Anglo-German “rent a mob”, we can enter a new golden age and even perhaps have a true Conservative Government. For far too long we have gazed at the Brunswick Hotel in the vain hope of inspiration.

Last edited 2 years ago by CHARLES STANHOPE
Tony Sandy
Tony Sandy
2 years ago

Yes the Romans replaced one king with a republic, then under Augustus created a new one under a different name. Long live the Emperor! Of course Julius his old dad, might have usurped him but for old friends knifing him in the back.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
2 years ago
Reply to  Tony Sandy

That Republic lasted for nearly five centuries.
Incidentally Julius Caesar was NOT the father of Augustus but rather his great uncle.

Last edited 2 years ago by CHARLES STANHOPE
Rosalie Clare
Rosalie Clare
2 years ago
Reply to  Brett H

“The more human God and the church became, the more it failed to have meaning.“ The Christian God literally became a human carpenter who experience the full breadth of emotion. Seems pretty meaningful to me?

Brett H
Brett H
2 years ago
Reply to  Rosalie Clare

Yes, he became too human. If it was meaningful, as you put it, then why is Christianity in decline?

Last edited 2 years ago by Brett H
Judy Johnson
Judy Johnson
2 years ago
Reply to  Brett H

I am unsure what you mean Brett

Brett H
Brett H
2 years ago
Reply to  Judy Johnson

By becoming human God lost the great power of a god that lived in peoples imaginations: his omnipotence. A carpenter is about as common as you can get. It’s a long curve to the church losing it relevance and then trying to make itself relevant to the people by trying to be more popular. Once again the slippage is there. The idea of God/The Crown is that they are not one of us. And then the church became community centres. How can someone feel the presence of God there? I know it’s the work of God, but it’s not God. So, by becoming too human Christianity slipped into decline. The same for The Crown. “She ain’t no human being.”

Last edited 2 years ago by Brett H
Judy Johnson
Judy Johnson
2 years ago
Reply to  Brett H

Christ became man because only a man could pay the punishment of man’s sins. He was both God and man (I am both a mother and grandmother – but of course not perfect!!!) Only a perfect man could pay that price because otherwise he would be dying for his own sins.
You are right that a carpenter is as common as you can get; also the point so that people could identify with him.

Caroline Watson
Caroline Watson
2 years ago

I hope, and expect that, if Prince Charles had broken his neck in 1976, we would now be awaiting the coronation of Queen Anne. The monarchy has always been pragmatic and the ending of male primogeniture could easily have been made retrospective.
As for ‘a state church’; that was the point of the Church of England. If it ceases to be that, it is nothing.

Julian Pellatt
Julian Pellatt
2 years ago

Perhaps one day historians will recognise that the most important constitutional commentator of the period was not Sir Simon Schama or Lord Hennessy but Johnny Rotten …”

Oh, come on! Cut the crap if you aspire to be taken seriously!

Brett H
Brett H
2 years ago
Reply to  Julian Pellatt

That line about Johnny Rotten is very good I think. Elizabeth was not a woman, she was The Crown. That’s a truth, I think. Which means that The Crown is bigger than the individual.

Last edited 2 years ago by Brett H
John Solomon
John Solomon
2 years ago

“If it (the monarchy) is to do so (survive), it needs to get away from an emphasis on the supposed personal qualities of any individual King or Queen and rest once again on the abstract quality of the Crown.”

That would be nice, but it won’t happen. Old women (of both sexes) are too wrapped up in hagiography for a person or people they have never met, will probably never meet, and who would not give them the time of day. Hoi polloi like their heroes and ‘strong leaders’ whether kings, pop stars, film stars, or tyrants (that nice Mr Stalin) and the monarchy knows this and plays to the gallery, because God forbid that the royals should appear in the street and the people should boo.
The plebs like the idea that their monarchs should be clever (or not actually stupid) and kind and any contradictory evidence will be completely ignored. Charles’s outburst at the leaky pen has been widely excused because “he’s under a lot of pressure”. It couldn’t actually be the case that he is a petulant toddler prone to tantrums, could it? And he must be clever, like his brother Edward – after all, they both went to Cambridge, didn’t they?

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
2 years ago
Reply to  John Solomon

“after all, they both went to Cambridge, didn’t they?”
Yes they did, under rather controversial circumstances it must be said. As expected both performed poorly.

John Solomon
John Solomon
2 years ago

You might recall an episode of The Goons where Neddie Seagoon was sitting with Eccles in a waiting room at the BBC waiting for a job interview. Eccles declares he will get the job “Because I’m wearing a Cambridge tie”. Neddie asks “What did you do at Cambridge?”

” I bought a tie.”

Sorry, not a totally accurate quote, and somewhat off topic, but it made me smile at the time.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
2 years ago
Reply to  John Solomon

Those were the days when ‘we’ still had a sense of humour, and could laugh at ourselves

Robert Rennick
Robert Rennick
2 years ago

Yes indeed!!! Those were the days . . . the pre-woke period!

Steve Murray
Steve Murray
2 years ago
Reply to  John Solomon

He’s both under a lot of pressure and prone to tantrums. There have been other examples (his clattering of the documents on the table as he signed the articles of Procession at St.James Palace for instance, in front of the world’s media).
But the most egregious example must be his sacking of the servant who failed to provide his shaving water at precisely the right temperature one morning, when he obviously “got out of the wrong side of the bed”. That was some time ago now, when he was perhaps only in his forties. Maybe he’s grown up a bit since? I sincerely hope so, because i wish him well, for all our sakes.

JR Stoker
JR Stoker
2 years ago

What is it that makes commentator and academics turn out these dull and inaccurate articles at these times? This is an especial corker, starting with the nonsensical analysis of James I.
Please, no more; move onto something else. Birmingham, supposing the Prof knows more of that than constitutional history, though recent reviews of his new book suggest he doesn’t.

Brett H
Brett H
2 years ago
Reply to  JR Stoker

I find myself agreeing with his conclusion and it’s an idea that’s being developing from reading the comments here for different articles. It’s possible that you missed the point of his article. Or you believe it’s better for Monarchs to be considered as just like us but with a bit more money. And in that case you’ve passed up the idea of The Crown. And then what?

Last edited 2 years ago by Brett H
Russell Hamilton
Russell Hamilton
2 years ago

“get away from an emphasis on the supposed personal qualities of any individual King or Queen and rest once again on the abstract quality of the Crown”

It would be fairly difficult to interest most people in the ‘abstract quality of the Crown’. On the other hand, one of things going for a Royal Family is personal, which is that they have a lot of training within the family before they have to assume a unique role.

Brett H
Brett H
2 years ago

“It would be fairly difficult to interest most people in the ‘abstract quality of the Crown’.”

But that’s how it’s been for centuries, don’t you think?

What do you think that unique role might be?

Russell Hamilton
Russell Hamilton
2 years ago
Reply to  Brett H

“What do you think that unique role might be?”

A question way beyond my paygrade – let’s hope a constitutional expert chimes in with a proper answer. The role has been changing – once upon a time the sovereign had all the power, but over time that transferred to the government, to all the organs of ‘the state’, and the Crown has become just the symbol of that power, plus a symbol of the nation and its institutions. So the Crown now represents the people to themselves as well as to foreigners. Also a visible, living connection to history.

Last edited 2 years ago by Russell Hamilton
Brett H
Brett H
2 years ago

“and the Crown has become just the symbol of that power, plus a symbol of the nation and its institutions. “
Not an empty symbol, though, presumably. An interesting question though: the Crown represents the people to themselves. What is that? ?

Russell Hamilton
Russell Hamilton
2 years ago
Reply to  Brett H

Have a look at the Queen’s Christmas message.

Brett H
Brett H
2 years ago

“that in the birth of a child, there is a new dawn with endless potential.”
This seems to be the crux of the message. It doesn’t seem to address my query, though.

Russell Hamilton
Russell Hamilton
2 years ago
Reply to  Brett H

When I wrote ‘represents the people to themselves’ I was thinking of all the better aspects of ourselves – often seen in the Xmas message: family values (the photos on the desk), inspiring messages of how people had overcome difficult circumstances during the year with self-sacrifice, doing one’s duty, dedication to community, recognition of the armed forces etc., then the Christian message … all delivered in perfect sentences. I suppose these days we could say that the current generation of the Royal Family more accurately represents who we actually are (sigh).

Brett H
Brett H
2 years ago

Okay. So really, just people like ourselves?

Last edited 2 years ago by Brett H
Russell Hamilton
Russell Hamilton
2 years ago
Reply to  Brett H

Not in so far (as I wrote earlier) as they are trained from birth to fulfill a particular role, to identify themselves with the traditions of the country and to uphold/demonstrate certain values.

But we were brought up to ‘look up’ to people in those sort of positions and so only so much was revealed about their lives. That’s all changed now. History, institutions, people – all get torn down. We’ll see how it goes.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
2 years ago
Reply to  Brett H

To add fig leaf of respectability to the otherwise rampantly sordid, grubby world of politics.

D Glover
D Glover
2 years ago

Remember that if Prince Charles had broken his neck playing polo in 1976, we would now be awaiting the coronation of King Andrew.

That is the best, and most succinct, argument I’ve ever seen against hereditary monarchy.

Last edited 2 years ago by D Glover
Rob Cameron
Rob Cameron
2 years ago
Reply to  D Glover

I’ll give you a list of recent President’s of the Republic of GB&NI that we’ve managed to avoid. Thatcher, Major, Blair, Brown, Cameron, May & Johnson. Careful what you wish for!

D Glover
D Glover
2 years ago
Reply to  Rob Cameron

I don’t like any of them, either. But none of them would have been president for life. What the people vote in they can vote out again, four years later.
Imagine King Andrew, a head of state who would not dare to visit the US because the FBI want to speak to him about the trafficking of girls for sex. Heredity can give you a wrong’un, and he’s yours for life.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
2 years ago
Reply to  D Glover

Ah but Andrew would have been ‘beaten into shape’ as the heir apparent, and not indulged as the spoilt brat he has turned out to be.

JR Stoker
JR Stoker
2 years ago
Reply to  D Glover

Its the old “supposing if…” game, Prince Andrew would have been 15 at the time of this theoretical death. Thenceforth his life would have been very different, trained to serve as future monarch, a mother and father carrying grief and loss, no front line service in the Falklands, probably a different wife, certainly different cares and responsibilities. Life would have been different, more than that we cannot tell

D Glover
D Glover
2 years ago
Reply to  JR Stoker

Ah yes. If Andrew hadn’t served in the Falklands he’d have never lost his ability to sweat. Never would he have sought out high class pimps as his best friends.
He might have proved a fine king, but we’ll never know.

James 0
James 0
2 years ago

A couple of points…
“No serious observer doubts the monarchy serves the interests of the Conservative party”
Given the Conservatives haven’t really been bothered about conserving anything for at least 40 years, and have basically turned the UK into a theme park for wealthy foreign oligarchs, I think this is debatable at least and needs much more substantiating. At any rate, even if it’s true, it amounts to an appropriation of the imagery of the monarchy by the Tories for their own purposes, and is separate from whether or not the monarchy is really ‘apolitical’ (by which I assume the author means ‘non-partisan’).
“The creation of a written constitution”
Pedantic point, but we already do have a written constitution; it’s just not written as a single document. I assume the author means a codified constitution.
It’s a shame, really, as I was interested to check out his book on Birmingham. But these basic errors in fact and logic have put me off a bit.

Last edited 2 years ago by James 0
CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
2 years ago

The really big question here is will the Scotch return THE STONE OF SCONE to Westminster Abbey for the Coronation of Charles III?

This War Trophy was seized by Edward I during his conquest of Scotland in the late 13th century. It remained In Westminster Abbey a part of the Coronation Chair/Throne until the 1990’s when the utterly pathetic John Major had it scandalously returned to Scotland as a sop to Scotch Nationlists.

Will Sturgeon & Co return it as promised in 1990’s agreement? I very much doubt it.

John Solomon
John Solomon
2 years ago

I support most of what you have said on this thread, but I wonder if your use of ‘the Scotch’ is a deliberate attempt to cause mild offence (most prefer ‘the Scots’, though for no good reason, I admit). If it is deliberate, it does you no credit, and disappoints me. Are you one of those people who refer to ‘Britain’ as ‘England’?

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
2 years ago

I just happen to prefer the perhaps archaic version as used by Fawkes and others.
Additionally we still call it Scotch Corner (on the AI) not Scots Corner do we not?
As for England and Great Britain, two entirely different geographical entities.

John Solomon
John Solomon
2 years ago

OK – I can live with that. As long as you are not exemplifying “He only does it to annoy/Because he knows it teases.”
Scotch corner is, of course, not in Scotland, and I think we have to make allowances for anything in Yorkshire, which is the ultimate ‘special case’. (You will no doubt be aware of the advice for foreigners “Never ask an Englishman if he comes from Yorkshire. If he doesn’t, he will be offended, and if he does, he has already told you – twice.”)
England and GB are not just different geographically, of course. One of my personal dislikes is where those who are British citizens (holders of British passports) who describe themselves as English or Scottish when they are clearly neither in an ethnic sense. That might change if the UK breaks up, of course, when it will be geographical residence which will be the overriding factor.
Let’s not go there : let’s just praise the god diversity.

Judy Johnson
Judy Johnson
2 years ago
Reply to  John Solomon

‘You can always tell a Yorkshireman; but you can’t tell him much.’

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
2 years ago
Reply to  Judy Johnson

You blaspheme Madam.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
2 years ago
Reply to  John Solomon

No greater expert than Dr Samuel Johnson normally used the expression Scotch, and we still don’t refer to it as Scots Whiskey or for that matter Scots Egg do we?
I know it may irritate some of the Scotch but they have notoriously thin skin on this subject. A case of Small Nation Paranoia (SNP) perhaps?
Your final point on diversity is well made and ultimately it is, and has been for more than three centuries, the great strength of this nation of ours.

Last edited 2 years ago by CHARLES STANHOPE
Doug Pingel
Doug Pingel
2 years ago

Diversity was fine up until about 10 years ago now there’s too much of it.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
2 years ago
Reply to  Doug Pingel

Yes, we seem to have forgotten that great adage of the Ancient Greeks: “Moderation in all things”.

Judy Johnson
Judy Johnson
2 years ago

Tony Blair has taken a knighthood.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
2 years ago
Reply to  Judy Johnson

But so did John Major!

Jane Watson
Jane Watson
2 years ago

People aren’t reading these anti monarchy articles are they? Good.

Ann Ceely
Ann Ceely
2 years ago

The Royal Queen or King has a Quality job.
Before anything is signed off, an interview of the job’s difficulties is queried – what went right, what went wrong, what might go wrong in the future etc..

Tony Sandy
Tony Sandy
2 years ago

The Queen has brought stability to the country because of her long reign and neutral stance. Within the next few months the destabilising of the ‘transient’ young will only lead to even more instability in the country as the country went strike mad with the removal of Boris. Brexit was a stupid move as would be the independence of Scotland and for the same reason, which reflects this loss of cohesion as is happening with the old colonial empire as well: Better together chanted David Davies, so why are we falling apart?

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
2 years ago
Reply to  Tony Sandy

Boris deserved to be removed, at the end of the day he turned out to be a pathetic weakling. Damnatio Memoriae is the best he can hope for.