Every detail of this story is bitterly contested; to leave anything out invites fierce criticism. But here’s a foolhardy attempt at a summary. For centuries, most of Ukraine’s largely peasant people were governed by the Poles, and had much in common with their Russian neighbours. But they were not Poles, and they were not Russians. At the time people called them “Ruthenians” — a word derived from that original Viking state of Kyivan Rus. But the word Україна, Ukraine, is old, dating from at least the 12th century. It probably means “the edge, the borderland”. And that pretty much sums Ukraine up. It was the land in between.
It’s perfectly true that over time, Ukraine turned to look eastwards. By the early 19th century Poland had been destroyed, while most of modern Ukraine, including the lands of the Cossacks and the capital Kyiv, had been absorbed by the empire of the Tsars. Not the far west, though: it was taken by Austria-Hungary, which is why L’viv looks so much like Krakow or Prague. Meanwhile, in the east, in the coal basin of the river Don, Russian workers poured into the newly built mines and steelworks, which is why so many eastern Ukrainians still speak Russian.
But that’s not an unusual story. At exactly the same time, a very similar thing happened here in Britain, where English workers moved into the mines and steelworks of South Wales. Today their descendants still speak English; you don’t often hear Welsh on the streets of Cardiff. But an anglophone Welshman is still Welsh. Like his childhood friends in the steel-making city of Kryvyi Rih, Volodymyr Zelenskyy was brought up speaking Russian. But he’s not Russian. He’s Ukrainian.
So was Ukraine invented by the Bolsheviks, as Putin says? No. Just look at its cities and universities in the late 19th century, when the Ukrainian idea flourished as never before. Intellectuals, poets, historians and folklorists became fascinated by their unique past and distinctive culture, just like their counterparts elsewhere. All over Europe, from Ireland, Germany and Italy to the lands of the Czechs, the Bulgarians, the Serbs and the Poles, people were part-uncovering, part-inventing their own national stories. So too in Ukraine, where the national poet Taras Shevchenko, the son of a serf, wrote verses celebrating the peasants, rebels and outlaws of days gone by.
But of course that didn’t fit with the Russian story. Under Tsars Nicholas I and Alexander II, the Ukrainian ideal seemed a threat to the unity of the Russian Empire. Shevchenko was arrested and exiled, his poems suppressed. In 1876 the Ukrainian language was effectively banned. You couldn’t write Ukrainian books, put on Ukrainian plays or give Ukrainian recitals; you couldn’t even teach your children in Ukrainian.
Yet Ukraine endured. By the outbreak of the First World War, the national idea was probably stronger than ever. At first the Russians invaded the Austrian-held west, in Galicia, and tried to stamp out all traces of a distinct Ukrainian identity. Then they were driven back. The Russian Revolution and civil war brought chaos, and Kyiv changed hands 16 times in two years. But every rival contender — the Ukrainian People’s Republic, the West Ukrainian People’s Republic, the Hetmanate, the Directorate, even the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic — believed there was such a thing as Ukraine. That was why, when Lenin and Stalin created the Soviet Union in 1922, Ukraine joined as a separate republic. Everybody knew it wasn’t Russia.
In the century that followed, Ukraine’s history was so awful, so horribly stained with sorrow, that it feels almost indecent to write it down. A famine in the early Twenties, then another horrific famine — the Holodomor, caused by Stalin’s collectivisation policies — in the early Thirties. Occupation by the Nazis in the Second World War, then the charnel house of the Holocaust, in which some Ukrainian nationalists actively took part. Reconquest by the Red Army; years of suppression and stagnation; the nuclear accident at Chernobyl. Then the collapse of the Soviet Union, the implosion of Ukraine’s economy in the decade that followed, the Orange Revolution, the Maidan and the annexation of Crimea.
Yet amid all this, Ukraine endured. In his speech on Monday night, Putin failed to mention that in the late Eighties thousands of people took to the streets of L’viv and Kyiv to demand language rights, greater autonomy and, in the end, independence. Nor did he mention that when the Ukrainians were given the chance to go their own way, in a free and fair referendum in December 1991, a staggering 92% voted for independence. Every single oblast, even Donetsk, even Luhansk, even Crimea, said yes. Even Russian-speakers voted for it. And no wonder. They were, after all, Ukrainian.
A complicated story, then. But in a European context, it’s not so unusual. Yes, Ukraine’s borders have been fluid; but whose haven’t? Just look at a map of Germany over time; or Italy, or Poland. Yes, many Ukrainians speak Russian. But that’s not unusual either. Some Finns speak Swedish. Some Germans speak Danish. Some Italians speak German. Do the Swiss all speak the same language?
And yes, Ukraine’s history is deeply, inevitably intertwined with that of its overbearing neighbour. It always has been, and always will be. But you could say exactly the same of Spain and Portugal, Germany and Austria, Britain and Ireland. Most people in Ireland speak English. Many read English newspapers. Many even support English football teams. But Ireland isn’t England. Ukraine isn’t Russia.
For Ukraine, doomed to what appears to be unending suffering, the future seems grim. When I began this essay, opening with those lines on the fall of Kyiv in 1240, the BBC headlines talked of overnight air attacks on the city. Now, while I have been writing, Russian tanks are rolling into the suburbs. Historians love to quote Mark Twain’s quip that history doesn’t repeat itself, it rhymes. They rarely admit that sometimes it rhymes in dreadful, unbearable, heart-rending ways.
But the story of Ukrainian history isn’t just a story of endless defeat. It’s a story of endless resilience. It’s the story of a people trapped between mighty neighbours, who have always been themselves, with their own land, their own identity, their own history. You can bomb them and kill them, smash their cities and tear down their buildings, burn their books and suppress their language. But you can’t make them something they aren’t, and you can’t destroy their belief in themselves. That’s the story of the siege in 1240, and it’s the same story now. Kyiv fell. But Kyiv endured, and Kyiv will rise again.
*
Dominic Sandbrook and Tom Holland discuss the history of Ukraine in the latest episode of The Rest is History.
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SubscribeWonderful essay, it really helps to understand the relationship between Ukraine and Russia – thank you.
Ukrainians in Kyiv holding out beyond all odds, reminds me of the Russians who went through the same in Stalingrad, except they had more time to prepare. It should not be lost on Russians that they are repeating a terrible history.
Can’t say I think this essay is wonderful. To me it reads like romantic, make belief popicock. So what is the author saying: the irish speak english but are not english. Sure, but by the same token people from the North of England speak English but are not the same as those from London. Much of Ukraine was part of Russia (i.e. a russian province) since the times of Peter the Great and Catherine the Great.
This whole situation could have been avoided if the Americans under Bill Clinton had not persuaded the Ukrainians to give up their nuclear weapons and give them to Russia. And having done that, the current situation could have been completely avoided but for the arrogance of the west. All that needed to be done is make Ukraine neutral with no potential membership in NATO or the EU. Further, while Russia is certainly run by an autocrat, we should have welcomed Russia, after the fall of the Soviet Union, into the collection of European nations rather than continue to regard Russia as an enemy. After all a good deal of the Western cannon, whether in music, ballet or literature comes from Russia.
So for Ukraine to be independent, all it had to delegate it’s defence and foreign policy to Russia? Your version of independence is very different to mine clearly!
Ultimately Putin is a tyrant. He’s invaded a much smaller neighbour who had given up their nukes at Russias request, hadn’t joined NATO or the EU, and hadn’t attacked Russia in any way despite Russia carving off large sections of its territory in Crimea and the East. The amount of Putin apologists amazes me sometimes, many of them the same people who were accusing western leaders of f***ism and taking away their freedoms during the pandemic are strangely forgiving of Putin doing exactly that to the Ukrainians
Perhaps you should have read what I actually wrote. Has Finland delegated it’s defense and foreign policy to Russia. Of course not. But Finland is a neutral country that is not part of NATO.
I’m not a Putin apologist and of course he’s an autocratic thug just as Xi of China is. But the truth of the matter is the west should not have threatened to bring Ukraine into Nato, effectively stationing high tech weaponry on Russia’s borders. The Russians have long memories. They are paranoid and they recall that they lost more lives during WWII than the rest of the Allies combined.
To give you an analogy, let us say that Canada joined a defense organization headed up by Russia, and Russian weaponry and missiles were stationed in Canada. How do you think the good ‘ole USA would feel about it.
In other words, get your emotions in check and look at what might work as opposed to make belief in the certainty of your righteousness which sounds rather like the righteousness of the Crusaders. And look where that got the West – all those far away wars in the Middle East ended up doing was giving us King John.
Can Finland join NATO if it wishes without Russias permission? If the answer to that question is no then Finland’s foreign policy isn’t its own is it?
I’m also tired of people saying that the Russians lost more lives than the allies during the Second World War. While technically true, the fact is the Russians spent the start of the war carving up Eastern Europe side by side with the Third Reich. It was only later in the war that they fought against the N***s, and the ridiculous tactics of the red army that led to so many casualties.
This is taking nothing away from the bravery of those Russians charging at the German machine guns, but just because Stalin was happy to sacrifice millions of people doesn’t mean their war effort is any more or less heroic than that of any other allied nation
They lost more lives in WW2 because of the Nazis not the Allies
Unfortunately your version of history omits critical points like Russia invading Poland with Germany to start ww2 and then supplying war materials to Germany to allow them to continue further conquests in Europe.
Your claims that you are not Putin apologist are just laughable.
Walks like duck, quacks like duck, it is duck.
In your case red bill one with antennas under both wings tuned to Moscow.
Keep quacking…
Not so much forgiving. Just not ignorant. The West literally in my eyes desired this war. The CIA and Pentagon got exactly what it wanted. Nord Stream 2 shutdown so Germany doesn’t lose its dependence on the USA, a demonized Russia, cold war 2.0, a wimpy Nato response. Looking great for the USA here. $6 billion tank deal to Poland before it even started! Nato going to have to step up those purchases! General Dynamics, Raytheon, Lookheed, Honeywell stocks all soaring. Federal reserve keeping the spigots going (no rate hikes)… the people will have to suffer the inflation for the “greater good” to help protect poor Europe.
The Ukronazis had bet Russia would just take the Donbas. That was their great hope. They could get more money and weapons from the pentagon because of the threat of Russia. They bit off more than they could chew and are in deep doo doo. The people of the Donbas got what they want. They broke away from Ukraine and have Russian military protection now. Russia wanted the status quo after officially taking back Crimea (they always controlled it) and better economic trade with the EU. They lose out and have to fully look to Asia for increased trade. They did not want to do that.
Big winners at the start of this. USA and the people of the Donbas. Big losers Russia, the Ukronazis (Azov batallion its leaders and supporters), and the Ukranian people who might find they have a lot more in common with Iraqis and Afghanis than they think. The last place in this world you want to be is under the protection of the CIA and pentagon. Europeans may want to give that a good thinking.
Or the USA underestimated Putin avd the potential for an external force that can genuinely challenge their power. If Russia, China and Iran pivot together against the West we could be in big trouble. The assumption that America is the most malevolent force in the world might be true but it might also be paranoia or just a default ‘America bad’ position thst seems to be the default for some people. America is the still the world’s superpower, who would you rather, the CCP? Islam? Putin??
Geepers, post Covid madness I’m no sure!
That’s not what he said. He said that’s what happened.
To limit Russia’s geopolitical power, Europe and the US have to reverse the green war on fossil fuel production, particulaly fracking. The vast majority of Russian government revenues come from oil and natural gas sales.
The price of Bent crude oil has now doubled to $100 per barrel, with the cost of natural gas more than doubling as well since 2020.
The immediate cause of these prices going up is Biden’s war on US and Canadian oil and natural gas production. However, almost all of Europe has outlawed fracking, leaving their countries dependent on Russia for natural gas supplies. Putin knows Europe can’t stop buying Russian natural gas, because they have no resonable alternative. Renewables are intermittent, and there isn’t enough storage capacity for more than 24 hours of the sun not shining and the wind not blowing. Europe and the US curtailing oil and natural gas production has given Putin a free hand to invade Ukraine, and anywhere else he chooses.
Biden’s reversal of Trump’s energy independence policy was imo the most catastrophic error. Reduced reliance on Saudi oil was long overdue and I think was a way to extricate America from perpetual war in the middle east.. Europe’s reliance on Russian gas makes us similarly vulnerable. I have no issue with trying to be more sustainable but we can’t be more sustainable if countries like Russia and China hold the balance of power and start expanding their empires unchallenged because they really don’t give 2 sh*ts about being green
Brilliant comments.
I so agree with you. As always the ‘its always the fault of the West’ brigade fail to see the realities of the world or human nature. Sure the West isn’t perfect, it has made mistakes, it is the world’s police and both denigrated for that *but also expected to take action*….. But who would you rather have in that role? America, China, Russia or Islam? It’s a no brainer for me. It’s the Yanks every day of the week and twice on Sunday.
So for Ukraine to be independent, all it had to do was have its alliances and foreign policy chosen by the Russians? To me that’s a strange kind of independence.
The Putin apologists amaze me quite frankly, how people can defend that animal. Ukraine gave up its nukes at Russias request, hasn’t joined NATO or the EU, hasn’t attacked Russia despite Russia annexing large swathes of its territory and Putin has still launched an unprovoked invasion
I don’t mean to offend your intelligence but welcome to reality. Humans are animals. They fight tooth and nail for power, access to resources, wealth, domination over others. You make assesmemts of your situation and do what is most likely to bring some level of safety and success. The fault in your thinking is that you believe the West to be all powerful with godlike powers to determine whatever future it wants. The world doesn’t work this way. Just take a poll in Libya, Afghanistan, or Iraq. You’ll begin to understand the West isn’t seen as being all that wonderful in the eyes of others. Especially those supposedly under their “protection”.
yeah but if the West had funnelled a lot of anti tank and plane missiles into the Ukraine months – or even years ago, instead of their pathetic efforts now, Putin would have thought twice. Talk is sickeningly cheap and I loathe all their cowardly posturing – even now !
Unfortunately western reliance on oil has made our interference in the middle east unavoidable. Biden’s reversal of Trump’s energy independence strategy was catastrophically shortsighted IMO. But think on this – we assume Americas presence is unwanted – but if that were the case why the Arab Spring, the desperate pleas for Western support and the rivers of people breaking in to Europe? Why blame America for taking out despots and unleashing long standing sectarian forces? Those societies were messed up long before America came along. Iraqis I speak to were more annoyed the Americans didn’t act sooner, or stay longer. They were not unhappy that Saddam had gone and were not unhappy that their country had been given the right to self determination. The theocrats have pumped out wall to wall propaganda about the Great Satan for years so is it any wonder that when questioned people will default to blaming the Yanks, especially in public?? So it really depends who you speak to.
Nobody is being an apologist for Putin. But you can’t look at the world through rose colored glasses. You have to deal with reality. And one reality is that the internal situation in Ukraine was manipulated by the West and presumably the ‘good ole’ CIA to overthrow the Ukrainian regime that was pro-russian and replace it by a western-looking regime. The west interfered in a region it had no business messing around with, and the result now is obvious for all to see.
Further, from a simple real politik standpoint, it would have been far better, after the fall of the Soviet Union, to welcome Russia into the family of Western nations rather than continue to treat them as an enemy. After all the Russians are Europeans and have far more in common with us than say the Chinese or Japanese. The analogy, but certainly not completely accurate, is the way the Western Allies treated Germany in the Treaty of Versailles which ultimately led to the rise of Hitler and WWII.
There are those who believe that Ukraine should have been perfectly free to join NATO and the EU, even though those things were never going to get the approval of all the member states comprising NATO or the EU. But, when you are placed geographically where Ukraine is, the wise option would have been to Finlandize rather than continually poke the Russian bear.
And lastly, the continual talk of Russia, Russia, Russia in Washington DC since 2016, with the sole purpose of undermining the previous presidency, did nothing positive.
The west had nothing to do with the uprising against the pro Russian regime that was there previously, and there have been subsequent elections in Ukraine since that democratically elected the current government.
Also for no all your banging on about geography and Finlandisation (which is essentially being a colony) you still haven’t answered my basic question of why morally Russia has the right to dictate to foreign policy of other sovereign nations? If he genuinely feared invasion from Ukraine (which I seriously doubt) then he can highly militarise his western flank, the same as other nations do in that situation. It doesn’t give him the right to invade
You are clearly clueless. May I suggest you read this recent article in the Tablet to actually understand what has been going on in Ukraine and how the US has used Ukraine to constantly poke the Russian bear. And the result is what’s going on now.
https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/ukraines-deadly-gamble
I read it and it’s the usual “it’s all our fault.”
well, it usually IS all ‘your’ fault, if you’re referring to the US warmongers
Biased article. The real interest in Ukraine on both sides is its status as an energy nexus. If Ukraine prefers the West rather than Russia surely it should be allowed to do so?
oh for gods sakes ‘the west’ aka the US had EVERYTHING to do with the Maidan uprising – find some history books or essays not coming from the US propaganda machine. geez
Exactly. The ‘blame the West’ brigade are at it again
You are going to be bitterly disappointed, then, when Putin fails, and then likely falls.
Looks like the Russian onslaught has gone seriously off track. Could it be that Russian soldiers who’ve been made to be cold and miserable for two whole months don’t want to die for Putin??
Unthinkable, I know… 😉
Perhaps the people of Ukraine WANTED a more western facing regime? They certainly seem willing to fight for it. I get a bit annoyed at these glib statements about the CIA installing people at will, as if they can just make citizens blindly vote how they want.
Why has Putin brought in Chechens unless as torturers and murderers to undertake the work Russian soldiers refuse ? Putin is a Chekist. When the were uprisings in the Gulags post WW2, due to the presence of Red Army Soldiers, The Cheka used Mongol troops because they were utterly ruthless. The Nazis used Bulgarian troops in Yugoslavia in WW2 for the same reasons.
Whatever the Ukraine has done or not done, it does not justify Putin contravening the Geneva Convention.
The West should state any Russian Commander will be held responsible for war crimes if any under their command contravenes the Geneva Convention. Any Russian soldier is relieved of any oath of loyalty if they are asked to contravene The Geneva convention. All those who contravene The Geneva Convention will be arrested and tried before the International Criminal Court and anybody who helps them to evade capture and/or provides financial support.
Your view is typical of post-modern thinking. That is denying reality and not thinking critically about the situation, and ignoring much of European history. It is a view founded on arrogance and contempt for any country that doesn’t agree on the current woke agenda.
Ukraine and other small countries don’t have the luxury of conducting their foreign policy in a vacuum. At some stage one comes up against reality. And the reality is that having NATO expand eastward to the borders of Russia is a very aggressive move that is likely to be countered, as indeed it has.
Further, it doesn’t help that the current US President looks very very weak and his VP looks both weak and incompetent. Biden can barely remember what day it is or even his own name. Biden certainly makes neither Russia nor China quake in their boots. Let’s face it, when US officials from Biden and Blinken on down are wearing face masks outdoors, when the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs rails on about white rage, when the justice department considers parents protesting at the teaching of critical race theory in schools as domestic terrorists, when the same justice department considers anybody who deems to criticize the administrations covid response or policies as domestic terrorists, it conveys the impression of extreme weakness and lack of seriousness. Similarly, Blinken’s orders to fly the rainbow flag outside their embassies, especially in the Arab world, gives the impression that the US is woke, weak and has literally gone round the bend. And finally, having pictures of the VP and her husband kiss each other with their face masks on makes more normal people think that they are both weak and complete fools.
When the US lacks seriousness and resolve and is governed by people who are intent on the self-destruction of the US, pax americana goes rapidly down the drain and you end up with the current situation in Ukraine. Of course history always repeats itself because so many fail to learn from previous mistakes. The situation surrounding the Fall of the Roman Empire and resulting chaos immediately comes to mind.
Recall, 14 months ago the US was not just energy independent but a net exporter of energy. Now the US is dependent on Russian oil and gas, all because Biden and his bunch of dotards and weak kneed elites wanted to reverse every single policy of the previous administration, whether that policy was good or bad. Just insanity. The current administration reminds me of Nero fiddling while Rome burns below his villa on the pennine hills.
Basically, do what they tell you and they’ll leave you alone. An inspiring vision of a civilised future. Where have you been for the last two years?
Maybe it’s ‘cos I’m a Londoner …. Differences do matter. And there are various shades of difference. For instance, any English person, a Londoner or otherwise, except perhaps if Liverpudlian, is viewed by a nationalist Irishman as “a Brit”. Or, when too much steeped in folklore, as a dastardly Englishman (usually reserved for the upper crust who probably have a fine residence in London). Things have not changed that much over the years, in that respect, in terms of differences in traits between neighbouring regions. Yet, these are only shades of difference.
The Cockneys enjoyed old-time music-hall, from the Victorian era and on into the Edwardian one, as much as their working-class brethren in northern English towns and cities. Charlie Chaplin came from old London town, Stan Laurel from Cumbria in the north-west of England but grew up in the South Shields area (the industrial north-east). Both hopped it to America in 1910 on the same boat, as part of the same troupe (the Fred Karno Troupe). Both had toured the whole of England and Scotland and Wales in their days on the stage. Their audiences had a strong-enough, bread-and-butter commonality between them, whether in the south or north of England. Probably they had much more in common than Charlie and Stanley did with each other, ironically. Do the sensibilities and outlooks of the past reflect today’s? I think they still do to a large degree, in spite of globalisation and multiculturalism and all-pervasive technology. The Russians love their technologies and their gadgets. So perhaps they are not as much in tune with their forbears, good Russians that they may have well once been, as their more recent forbears.
Where was I? Talking of ballet, would all Russian ballerinas, past and present, have been/be alarmed by Putin’s invasion of Ukraine? I would say the majority so. Would their typical audiences have been/be? Not all, in the sense that they would not all have rebuked/rebuke it, I imagine. Maybe far from actually doing that, at least publicly. The Establishment or the élite of society must tend to in some way support the ruling head. But I cannot imagine that the great artists in Russian culture, as high-brow as THEY were, could look forward to making great art now this year (if they were still alive) when the dogma issuing from the Kremlin is to throw a blanket of homogenisation glorifying a certain vision of Russia over the Russian and Russian-Ukrainian and Ukrainian peoples. Certainly Ukrainian artists would balk at that. They were denied the rights to express themselves in the past, as the magnificent primer on history that is the piece above by Dom Sandbrook tells of.
The propaganda that stalks all good Russians today typifies the Kremlin’s “sea-green regimenters who, …, seek to impose upon (men and women) a grey sameness of the soul.” That is a quote from an essay, The Uncommon Man, by English-Welsh novelist Charles Morgan, a veteran of WW1, writing in the immediate aftermath of WW2. He believed that “the coming age will be that of the Uncommon rather than of the Common Man.”
So seeing the Ukrainians as “western Russians”, as alluded to in the piece, is a bit like calling the Anglo-Irish, the English and their English-speaking descendants who had settled in Ireland over the course of the Plantation period beginning from 1607, as West Brits. Some ardent Irish nationalists today may still use that term derogatorily against Irish Protestants, but I believe only a very few do. (There are quite a few Irish families today whose surname is Cromwell and who are Catholic. After Cromwell’s incursion/invasion, Irish Catholics saw their rights suppressed). Could you imagine “the Brits” today gunning for the incorporation of the “West Brits”, or the “western Britons”, into the greater British union? Not on your nelly! (As you might have heard blurred out back in the day on the old music-hall stage by Messrs Laurel, Chaplin and co.). The British even call the Irish unionists, Irish.
But that gunning for the incorporation of greater Ukraine into Russia’s arms is precisely the crude and exploitative operation going on now. The West Russians will be gathered in! Just like that. It’s like the prim, grim and proper mother of the 1960s taking the scissors to her rebellious daughter’s long hair just because it looks sexy. The reality is the so-called western Russians are, if you like, free Russians, Russians who may be somewhat Westernised. The East Germans had looked upon the West Germans enviously, you know. And, boy, do the powers-that-be don’t like that!
The Planters in Ireland long ago gave up trying to convert the Gaels, the Celtic natives, to Protestantism. In the grand scheme of things, a reasonable political settlement has existed on the island of Ireland for a hundred years. The forces of reasonableness have been strong. But all is at sea in Russia today. They don’t know their place. The Ukrainians know theirs.
Indeed, it reads like NSC-68 an American self justification paper or a fantasy story of elves vs. the orgs.
As Chomsky has been pointing out for years, just imagine if some other state, say China or Russia, invited Shetland islands to their military aliance and positioned a “defence” missile system there. Or on Barbados or Cuba next to the USA. Prior to that whipping up a local coup d’etat resulting in a nationalist government, which would ban English and engage in domestic rethorics which claim everyone “pro-English” a traitor of the nation. Any opposition would be punished by imprisonment, cancleation, police brutality and localised military action against civilians and police in disagreement with the new “party line”.
Ukraine had no more nuclear weapons of its own, than, say, Loch Long in the UK or wherever Trident is positioned. Russia was the inheritor state of the USSR after the collapse, including Security Council membership, sovereign debt and nuclear programme.
If anyone thinks the world needs more countries with nuclear weaponry, please do think twice.
Chomsky is an idiot.
Exactly, lefty idiot like many others, including this forum, who take advantage of Western freedoms to justify actions of dictators in Russia and China.
Your first paragraph is good. Second is not accurate. You are making the gigantic assumption that it was a Western decision alone. The Russian and Ukranian militaries had joint drills, were integrated, and were allowed into the Russian naval base on Crimea until the coup in 2014 when they finally split up. Ukraine never controlled Crimea. Russia always did. The Russians invaded Crimea is propaganda. They leased Sevastopol so Ukraine got some money but they didn’t allow settlement from the West for the reason you are seeing today. All of this was negotiated at the end of the USSR. Ukraine could have just kept their nukes is a fantasy. They weren’t really theirs to keep as the Soviet military was splitting up and they were deciding what to do with everything. The USA literally led Ukraine into a war. Our leaders are corrupt beyond all imagination. I agree with everything else you wrote.
Dennis, I’m in agreement with you. Well said.
Seems like you’ve missed the point of the essay, which can hardly be dismissed as “romantic, make belief popicock (sic).” It’s more of an historical survey of the continuing resiliency of the Ukrainian people in the determined preservation of their language and culture during the last 1000 years. And it is an inspiring story that we in the woke West can learn a few lessons from. Putin may dismiss Ukraine as “western Russia,” but in the end Russia is in a large part indebted to geographical Ukraine for it’s own identity. Kyivan Rus’ was a thriving civilization 400 years before the city of Moscow was established. Likewise, the Orthodox Church in Kyiv preceded that of its Russian counterpart. Perhaps Russia should think of itself as “eastern Ukraine.” I have a great love of Russian culture and literature myself, and obviously it greatly overshadows that produced by Ukraine. But one wonders what the Ukrainians could have produced if not for the relentless attempts by Russia (and other aggressor nations) to eliminate its language, culture and unique identity.
I think you should read this article in the Table how Ukraine has continued to make blunder after blunder at the prodding and engineering of the US. The result is the situation they are in presently, all of which could have been avoided.
https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/ukraines-deadly-gamble
Certainly it is a blunder not to comply with a bullying tyrant.
Very good article, thanks for the link. I’ve been investigating some of these allegations and can’t say I disagree with most. As an American I’m disgusted and appalled at the manipulation and exploitation of Ukraine. But I still can’t blame the Ukrainians for attempting to distance themselves from Russia after centuries of boot-stomping from the latter. They have certainly made some fatal mistakes, however, either through desperation or naïveté. Siding with the traitorous and deceptive Democrats was a biggie. Again, thanks.
All that was necessary to make Ukraine neutral was not to steal Crimea and Donbas. they only wanted into NATO AFTER Putin stole.
Putin created the modern Ukraine.
And just now it looks like it will destroy him.
You do know that Crimea was gifted to Ukraine by Khrushchev in the 50s and has always been Russian. You do also realize that the Crimeans voted to join Russia, as did the people in the Donbas.
Crimea was only part of Russia from late 18th century.
It was settled by Tatars, which were later deported by Stalin.
Reality is that you can always choose particular point in history to prove anything.
For example Ottomans were at Gates of Vienna by 1683.
Should Greece, Bulgaria, Romania, Serbia, Croatia, etc don’t exist because of Ottomans conquests of Balkans?
Since the fall of the USSR the world has done a lot to try and be friends with Russia but something you don’t account for is that perhaps the Russians, feeling humiliated at the fall of their Empire, maybe didn’t want to be friends with us and still saw US as the enemy?? Putin is ex KGB, he’s a relic of the Cold war in a way that Johnson, Biden et al are not. For example I remember moves to reduce nuclear capacity on both sides. But I don’t remember any incidents of the West using Novichok on Russian soil.
if you lived in the US the last 6 years or so you would know that is absolutely not the case. In the US they have been obsessed by Russia, Russia, Russia for the sole purpose of trying to overthrow or neutralize the previously elected President. You will also recall how Romney went on about Russia in 2012 but was put doubt during a debate by Obama who simply said the cold war ended in the 80s. Every large power has it’s sphere of influence.
By the way, Biden is close to 80, and Hilary Clinton is not far behind, and both are more relics of the Cold War than Putin!
Ok, so this essay is wrong but your version of Ukraine history straight from Putin PR department is correct one?
So for Soviet stooges like you, whatever Russia conquered should always be Russian?
You think like Kali in the joke about theft.
Priest is trying to explain to Kali why theft is one of the sins.
After a while Kali says, ok I understand.
When someone steals cow from Kali it is sin.
But when Kali steals cow it is not sin.
Replace Kali with Putin or Russia and we have simple description of Russian policy.
I think Putin’s message is that he has no intention of letting history repeat itself ..
I’m of two minds on this. It is a beautiful, elegiac essay, but at the same time gives short shrift to the utter failure of the West after the fall of the Soviet Union. The West undoubtedly won the Cold War, but squandered the decades that followed.
Instead of instituting a sort of Marshall Plan, using the money saved in fighting the Cold War to draw Russia into the brotherhood of Western nations, the West, led by the US, repeatedly poked the bear, driving it even more Eastward. This was, I submit, because US foreign policy, adopted by the EU lemmings who licked American boots, was run by charlatans with idealistic and woke values but no real understanding of Russia and what was at stake. Was this really a good strategy?
I’ve been chastised for this view but I stand behind it, citing George F. Kennan, the father of containment and a true statesman who saw deep into the Russian soul, and who was adamantly against letting NATO set up on Russia’s borders.
This is, undoubtedly, a lesson to other mid-level countries, Israel, Pakistan, India who have nuclear weapons, and those who will have them soon, North Korea, Iran–never give up nuclear weapons or you will eventually be invaded. Nuclear weapons have, arguably, kept these countries “safe;” Ukraine gave them up and has been invaded and may be subjugated. Lesson learned.
I completely agree with you, and you have stated my views in a manner that is perhaps a lot clearer than I had.
I am amazed Taras Buljba is never mentioned. Having been married to a Ukrainian family he was their favorite character (their dog was named after him). The parents and Grandparents spoke Ukrainian, but also Polish and Russian – They thought Poles were sort of OK, did not like the Russians, and were not very correct when talking about the Jews…
From a Book by Nicholas Gogol, Taras Bulba – was a Cossack who leads the Ukrainian Cossack against the Polish conquerors – and all kinds of things, like he kills one of his sons for marrying a Polish woman – happen…
This is a youtube clip of the recent movie about Taras Bulba – one of several made, sort of the El Cid kind. The clip does not show up well the big feathered wing/banners the Cossacks wore to battle, the feathers giving off a roar in the wind under horse charge, and a terrifying image visually, and causing terror in the enemies…. But it is a short clip, and shows some historic ferocity of the Ukrainians. Good to watch in this time, and events.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_3U7OtuSlo
Sorry that most forget that Poland and Ukraine were one nation until the 17th C, and that they won many battles fighting side by side.
Of course, Gogol couldn’t write about that in the 19th C.
It’s what happens when you have one-man rule–you have to alter your history.
I am sorry but Cossack did not use feathered wings.
This was part of attire of Polish heavy cavalry called Hussaria.
Cossacks were more like light cavalry with some regiments using chain mail.
Many Cossack regiments served under Polish command in wars against Russia.
After Pereyaslav treaty of 1654 Cossacks pledged allegiance to Russia.
Clearly not wise choice long term.
Although Poland’s treatment of them after Chmielnicki uprising did not help.
Avd you think Russia would have embraced such ‘brotherhood’? I doubt it very much.
Problem with all this “befriend Russia” argument is that Russia is not and never had been democracy.
Maybe moving that way for few months before October revolution.
So Russia like Middle East etc can not be made to be functioning democracy. It has to come from within.
While it is true that Yeltsin years were pretty dismal, it was Russia choice to follow particular economic model.
Just look at choices made by China.
Really grateful for this article. With so many voices competing it was welcome to get something of a handle on Ukraine and its past. I have a feeling this is Putin’s swansong. Europe needs to start paving the way for its new relationship with Russia under a new leader. So I really hope we can manage not to burn bridges. I would rather Russia on our side than China’s.
Indeed, and I think most Russians would rather have the UK on their side than Putin on their backs.
China is not going to be on our side – so having Russia out there, even as a non-friend, keeps China in check to a degree. As India grows in strength then the world will be safer yet.
Funny that China hasn’t supported Putin.
Is it too late to appeal to their better nature–and support Putin?
Yet many Indians appear to have embraced an entirely anti British narrative, so embracing China might be a way for them to stick it to us.
Yes, you are right about China.
However Russia needs to recognise long term dangers of alliance with China.
That would require new leadership.
But such change of direction in unlikely within next 10 years.
I think it’s more complicated than that. Ukraine was part of the Russian Empire after the Treaty of Bucharest in 1812 and European allies defeated Russian (not Ukrainian) forces in Crimea in 1856. After the Russian Revolution, Ukraine declared independence in 1917 but was a founding member of the Soviet Union in 1922. Following the collapse of the USSR, Ukraine regained independence in 1991 but a large part of the population consider themselves to be Russians.
I have a colleague in Kiev who, only two weeks ago, sent me a message that the ‘Russian threat’ was ‘hyped up’ by the western media and was a ‘pack of lies’. I haven’t been able to contact him since but I get the feeling that many Ukrainians would be happy to be part of Russia, again.
Is there no end to the Treaty of this place or that place, in the year so-and-so? What ever next? The Treaty of Grimsby of 1846? History is too much. Just too much. Still, thanks.
Yes, maybe some Ukrainians want the never-ending uncomfortable flux of their situation to end. Even if the idea is to get some comfort from the source of their discomfort.
It seems to me that if history tells us anything it’s that tribes are always in a state of flux because human beings are weak, greedy and shortsighted.. It’s a curse of our evolutionary heritage
Probably so. Seeing the ineptitude of their current leader who instead of coordinating the defense is taking selfies trying to convince the West of their heroism in being victims
Ha! Zelensky, a Jew whose family were murdered in the Holocaust and fought with the Red Army, being described as a Nazi by Putin, has become a global hero figure as he issues these selfies – are you serious?
I could see thinking being part of Russia would be good. Ukraine alone is just another minor place, never likely to be a big industrial power, nor any other world leader.
Like say, if Illinois was independent of USA… kind of a land locked, medium/small place, not like being a part of the vast Nation – with all the opportunities for work, living, study, travel and so on, from being the world’s biggest country, spanning the continent.
Ukraine remaining independent is exciting if it means eventually joining the EU, and so getting to be part of the big power place – but if not, I could see why many would like to be part of the vast Russian nation.
From my perspective there is no difference between being an insignificant part of Russia or of the EU. Both confer being part of a ‘big power place’ without having any real power…
You seem to think that your colleague in Kiev was correct in believing that the Russian threat was ‘a pack of lies’ hyped up by the western media. Haven’t subsequent events proved him absolutely and completely wrong? There may be Ukrainians who would be happy to be part of Russia again, but the result of the referendum on independence after the collapse of the Soviet Union suggests that there aren’t that many of them, and they will be even fewer after Putin’s unprovoked attack.
Like all peoples, they are not a hive mind.
But referendum results in 1991 were quite clear.
Only 8% of people voted against independence.
It’s time to stop referring to Putin as President. He’s been in power for 20 years and even changed to constitution to allow himself to remain in power for ever.
He’s a dictator and should be addressed as such… Dictator of Russia.
That’s it for me. I posted a comment in reply to William Blake. No swearing, no rudeness, though I disagreed with him. “Awaiting moderation” and still invisible two hours later.
Can’t bear this sort of censorship. Just a bridge too far. Shame, really. The posts here are often fascinating – but all I can do is withdraw my contribution. Cheers all.
Yes I have been finding the same thing. Unherd are going the way of other online platforms and need to reevaluate what they set themselves up to do. If they don’t give their heads a wobble they’re going to haemorrhage subscribers.
A very interesting article..thanks
Interesting essay Dominic – thanks. If Putin thinks that Ukrainians and Russians are one people he must now think he is murdering thousands of his own countrymen, women and children. But this paranoid bloodstained little man has never had any compunction about having his compatriots murdered.
Thank you so much, Dominic, for this amazingly informative history lesson. It certainly unveils a long trail of Ukrainian identity, and clarifies some of the darker phases about which Putin strives to misinform.
You are demonstrating here, Dominic, that the manipulator of history cannot pull the wool over eyes that know and comprehend the real thread of history.
Even as Czechs are still Czechs, in spite of Hitler’s 1939 attempt to seize their domain, Ukrainians are still Ukrainians, and will so remain so, in spite of Putin’s 2022 attempt to seize their domain.
Certainly, they’ll get by with a little help from their friends, US!
Keep up the good work!
Our ‘help’ will no doubt be seen as malevolent once the dust settles.
Unherd is getting more and more censorious. Every single comment I’ve added is ‘awaiting approval’ no doubt for asinine words like ‘N**i’. Unherd just stop it or you will start haemorrhaging credibility and subscribers
Bravo.
Characteristically wonderful essay, Dom.
Having you and Tom and your guests explain the historical backdrop to contemporary events in real time and in such an entertaining and informative fashion is a rare treat.
There is a great deal of spin in his tale – anyone else could take it in a different direction, the scene is so complex that one can make what one wants of Ukrainian history.
It took about 200 years for Kiev to rise from the ashes of the Mongol invasion in the 13th century.
Meanwhile, the Ukrainians have a lot of history with the Russians, and the first half of the 20th century contributed mightily to that bad history. For example, the Soviet’s First Five Year Plan (1928-1932) was staffed by slave laborers, many of them Ukrainians. That’s who built those hydroelectric plants on the Dnieper River. And Soviets established the G.U.L.A.G. system in those same years to deal with those recalcitrant Ukrainian peasants who were not so keen on agricultural collectivization.
I have some professional connection to Ukraine, and it’s hard not to think that the Russian invasion merely enables the Ukrainians to tap in to a deep well of resentment to motivate a vigorous effort to fight back. The Russians may have opened a can of worms — and may be forced to eat them.
If you’d be interested: I motivate these ideas in two essays of my own:
Et tu, Putin?Can the Russians sustain a campaign in Ukraine beyond a metaphorical Friday afternoon?https://dvwilliamson.substack.com/p/et-tu-putin
Will Russian Invasion Achieve Ukrainian Objectives?Relationships do not unfold like Hollywood scripts with Chiliastic denouement.https://dvwilliamson.substack.com/p/will-russian-invasion-achieve-ukrainian
I think many of the Putin Romantics are going to be bitterly disappointed in the next few days.
Just as with Trump, their idol has feet of clay.
Looks like the Bad Old West is going to hang around a lot longer.
Stories and history below. Very interesting but academic. There are tanks outside Kiev, missiles fired into apartment blocks. It doesn’t matter what the Mongols, the Tsar, Hitler, Stalin or Kruschev did. This weaponry should not be there in 2022. It’s too late to apportion blame to anyone except Putin. He is responsible for the deaths of, we hear, thousands of young men of his own side. As such he should be removed from power immediately.
Thank you for such an interesting article. Please ignore, as I am sure you will, the pathological morons who say you don’t know history. You do. The reason for Russia’s fear of NATO is simple. A functioning democracy on the borders of a dysfunctional dictatorship is unthinkable.
Beautifully written.
Brilliant read.
in 2014 preventing Sevastopol being used as a NATO harbor prevented a major military conflict. It is the equivalent of Russia using Norfolk in Virginia or China San Diego
Just as the Cuban crisis showed the US will an accordance to The Monroe -theory not tolerate military installations from non western hemisphere states. Why should Russia be obliged to see NATO creeping up to their border and not sticking to agreed terms. The NATO arms are being supplied to the Ukranians are an absalout invition to military intervention
Read John Mearsheimer, maby this war prevents a still bigger and more destructive conflict.
ps ; remeber Saddam Hussein was taken out for undermining the petrodollar system selling oil i euros
Same thing happenend in Libyia sellin oil priced in gold and Gaffafi got to meet his maker
Now Russia has de dollarized due to the weapomnzation ofThe Green Pope and signed a massive energy deal with China not in US dollrars
too bad you only seem to be able to find completely out of touch with reality (some not very polite word) to talk about Russia, this is high level nonsense. Check a map of US bases stretching from Europe all around the south of Russia and all the way to Japan and talk about the ‘supposed surrounding’ of Russia. Get in touch with Putin’s reality.
The is a very interesting and informative article about the history of the region and, in particular, Putin’s obsession with it (which I suspect in reality is less to do with history and more to do with Ukraine’s status as a fossil fuel nexus). But something else struck me too. The way the writer describes the history…. Most of the time the British Empire is not described as having allowed a vassal to ‘flourish’ like apparently Kyiv did under the MONGOLS (Really? The Mongol hordes a benevolent invading force but the British were always a genocidal, looting, pillaging evil? Give me a break). The Viking/Mongol/Russian and other roots of the Ukrainian people’s pasts apparently do not mean Ukraine is not now a unique and distinct people, separate from Russia who deserve respect and autonomy – whereas the English are frequently described as a b*****d race and as as not being a ‘real’ culture or ethnicity, as our history and culture is merely a byproduct of others so not distinct at all and, crucially, nothing to be proud of (therefore why would we have a problem with being a vassal of the EU, as surely we’d ‘flourish’ too?). Flag waving by Ukrainians and pride in their nation is fine though (which it is to any normal sane person). This article has made me realise even more the double standards, open contempt and lies about the English and British that are not applied anywhere else. Criticise if you like for my lack of singular focus on the situation in Ukraine (it is apparently mandatory at the moment) but reading this article simultaneously made me feel both informed about Ukraine, for whom I feel great sympathy at their plight – but also angry at the forces that denigrate my own people and land and would see us negated and obliterated if they could.
More censorship from UnHerd–is it because I suggested that Europeans too often lick American boots?
Who would you rather they allied themselves with? Russia? China?
Ermm, develop civilised diplomatic relationships based on national and regional interests informed by functional representative democratic process via international organisations such as the UN, maybe? Otherwise it’s all licking I’m afraid.
That will work, especially with Russia as current head of the UN Security Council. Democratic in the UN…. I think not in cynical, pragmatic reality. Sadly.
The UN where Russia and China, who will realistically be their greatest regional rivals in the near future have a permanent veto you mean?
I’ll admit Europe and the UK have become complacent when it comes to defence since the end of the Cold War and hopefully this is the wake up call they need, but to imply they’re boot lickers is rubbish I’m afraid
“More censorship from UnHerd–is it because I suggested that Europeans too often lick American boots?”
I would hope so. Rude, and wrong.
But not needing censorship surely??
I guess he thinks they should be licking themselves…. although put that way it does sound a bit odd.
I hate history.
Kiev will rise again. But first, it must fall, again. A Kievan governor must first decline to surrender, again.
Summon up history like the Witch of Endor, and it can be used to give counsel or provide hope, true or false. It can offer comfort or an alibi. It can provide justification for any action, legitimacy to any government, peace to the bereaved.
History is everyone’s servant. Before becoming everyone’s master, and then goaler.
If history has a ‘right side’, it’s most certainly not in the possession of those now living. The men of Nineveh will arise at the judgement, declared Jesus of Nazareth, and condemn this – this present – generation. There’s no comfort here for progressives who think that they can escape the past. The people of the past will judge them and do so as harshly as they are judged.
There is only the present moment that is passing over us with its duty, pleasure and patience in the next thing to be done rightly and with the charity without which there is nothing worth.
An absolutely fascinating article which tends to put the whole issue into context. But of course the problem with a democracy is that in a vote the losing side must accept it. That is patently not the situation with respect to BREXIT – resistance from REMAINERS continues unabated. It also seems to be the case in the Ukraine which explains why Russian involvement has been welcomed in some parts of that huge country leading to what is now in progress.
So the conflict is really about the opposites of authoritarianism and democracy. Of the two I still hold to democracy being the better approach to government but it is dependent upon the engagement of the majority of the populace which has not been the case for many years in the UK. Some very bad decisions such as devolving power to Scotland and Wales have now become separation issues which was not the intention. So it is with the Ukraine.
The sad and very obvious fact is that mankind is a divided family which because of the disobedience of Adam and Eve has led to all sorts of horrors being perpetrated on parts of it in the name of religion or authoritarianism, introduced, manipulated, and maintained by Satanic intervention.
Thankfully our Creator who so much of humanity stupidly and arrogantly refuses to recognise will eventually intervene to bring matters to his chosen conclusion. Read your Bible to learn more.
“The sad and very obvious fact is that mankind is a divided family which because of the disobedience of Adam and Eve has led to all sorts of horrors being perpetrated on parts of it in the name of religion or authoritarianism, introduced, manipulated, and maintained by Satanic intervention.”
Adam and Eve is a story about evil, not a historical account. For goodness’ sake, they were naked, discovered a snake and then knew shame. It’s about innocence and discovering sexuality.
(If it was literally true, who ostracised Cain? Whom did he marry, his mum or a sister?)
It’s a magnificent extended metaphor or parable, not an actual event that could cause ripples of discord through millennia.
Wow, that went downhill pretty quickly, didn’t it? Maybe we should stick to rationalism rather than trying to tell the poor Ukrainians “Hey go read a bible bless up fellas :)))”
Ah, indeed – yet there are still some, thankfully fewer, who cling to the myth that pond scum has magically over eons of ever changing, yet uniformitarianist, naturally selected mutations become people. Via apes, of course. Try selling that to the wise.
As an aside, it is revealing, isn’t it that darwinian racism hasn’t been de-platformed.
>sometimes it rhymes in dreadful, unbearable, heart-rending ways.
Here’s to hoping that the neighbors decide to evict the squatters.
Excellent article. Thank you.
i’ve seen it written elsewhere but I haven’t followed up, why Kyiv and not Kiev?
Apparently Kiev is the Russian pronunciation so we must now all fall over ourselves, once again, to embrace an entirely new word for the same thing, which is always a translation anyway, or get told off for insulting Ukrainians [eye-roll]
https://bank.gov.ua/en/news/all/natsionalniy-bank-vidkriv-spetsrahunok-dlya-zboru-koshtiv-na-potrebi-armiyi
A far more important analysis of the current situation and one that is an absolute must read for anybody making any pronouncements one way or another is the following article by Glenn Greenwals: https://greenwald.substack.com/p/war-propaganda-about-ukraine-becoming?token=eyJ1c2VyX2lkIjoxMzU1MDE0MywicG9zdF9pZCI6NDk0MDI2MjgsIl8iOiJIWU04YSIsImlhdCI6MTY0NjAwMDcwMywiZXhwIjoxNjQ2MDA0MzAzLCJpc3MiOiJwdWItMTI4NjYyIiwic3ViIjoicG9zdC1yZWFjdGlvbiJ9.IMxz6V0JJs7sKbEC-Tr9pBDjWAql_6swsi6UDiqsDNg&utm_source=url![comment image](https://cdn.substack.com/image/fetch/w_90,h_90,c_fill,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fbucketeer-e05bbc84-baa3-437e-9518-adb32be77984.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F68e53278-804a-41b7-a693-64adb40e669a_1121x1082.jpeg)
War Propaganda About Ukraine Becoming More Militaristic, Authoritarian, and RecklessEvery useful or pleasing claim about the war, no matter how unverified or subsequently debunked, rapidly spreads, while dissenters are vilified as traitors or Kremlin agents.
Glenn Greenwald
Vladimir Sorokin has written a superbly excoriating essay about the evil pyramid of ruthless power Russian leaders have sat or balanced helplessly on throughout history having taken lessons from the Mongols and how that paradigm must change.
Yes I know defence spending isn’t directly comparable. The Russians treat their troops very poorly with appalling accommodation etc. Maybe why there is endemic beating and physical abuse when officers are housed in hovels. However the US spends around $778bn ( half the world’s total) China $252bn, India $73bn, Russia $62bn, UK $60bn, Germany and France about $52bn. Germany has just increased their spending by $100bn. These crude figures can be gnawed over but they are significant. Vladimir Pyrrhus?
Did I accidentally end up on the Atlantic Council blog? What romantic, one-sided drivel did I just read? Should I now go and pay respect at a Stepan Bandera monument?
There are two options:
1) Ukraine quickly surrenders, respects the Minsk agreements and promises to remain neutral.
2) The extreme right elements manage to hold out, sacrificing who knows how many of their own civilians, while Western media manufactures consent, until the whipped up masses demand cowardly bombardments, and Putin is killed in a sewer pipe somewhere with a bayonet up his arse.
We all know what the author of this article would like to happen, never mind rationality or fairness. And much good it will do.
Tell you what Neven. Why don’t you go back to streaming and believing RT for 24hrs a day. Enjoy. Have a nice holiday in Sochi with your pay and keep drinking the vodka. I’d do it relatively quickly though as shortly you won’t have many travel options to Russia as the rest of the world (except Assad….Nice guy) don’t agree with you.
Nevin has a good point – if a faction is willing to wreck the country to fight, that is not always good.
My theory has always been if we just let the Russians have Afghanistan – did not give them stinger missiles to stop the Russian helicopters so it became a 20 year war, fallowed by another 20 year war – the world would have been a much better place.
Russia would have built Girls schools, Mines, Roads, Factories, Pipelines, Dams….. Russia was good with running the ‘Stan’ countries. Russia went in in 1979, and by 1991 USSR had fallen apart and Afghanistan would have gone independent – with infrastructure….12 years – instead of giving tech munitions and pouring gas on the fire caused 40 years of war – and a disaster.
Maybe giving the munitions to Ukraine will have bad results. Simplistic – he is bad, he is good – ways of deciding things can backfire, a bigger picture is needed.
Who is to say that Russia would have ever conquered Afghanistan, and instead ended up in an even longer war destabilising the region, affecting the energy supplies that run through there (as I’ve no doubt Russia would have focused attention on that), pulling in jihadists from the middle east and militarising Russia to the point of insanity setting off World War 3 anyway??
Russia has a larger far right contingent than Ukraine you do realise? Do you not question Putins narrative slightly when he accuses the leader of Ukraine of being a Neo N***, despite him being Jewish and having had family sent to the death camps in the Second World War?
Here’s an interesting article you might want to read. It describes how Zelensky’s approval rating was dropping, combined with splits in his own party. This has forced him to firm a coalition with extreme right elements (the Svoboda folk) and ratchet up the rhetoric against Russia. If the Russians accept that the extremists in Ukraine start calling the shots, they might as well allow NATO nuclear warheads on the Red Square.
The West could have prevented this. It still can, but prefers to send weapons and spur on the Balkanisation of the region. The far-right Ukrainians for their part will try to sacrifice the Ukrainian people to get the West involved, and thus destroy Russia, much like Islamist extremists tried to do in Douma.
I wouldn’t care much about this, if it weren’t for nuclear weapons. I wouldn’t want to risk nuclear Armageddon so that American weapon companies can maximise their profits.
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2022/02/23/2ukr-f23.html
I’m sorry but that article is the most partisan piece of nonsense I’ve ever read, it may as well have been written by the FSB.
Within the first two paragraphs it’s accused the US and EU of escalating the conflict, attacked the Ukrainian President for trying to form a war cabinet (during a war), described the protests against the previous president as a US led coup and essentially accused Ukraine of trying to get their hands of nuclear infrastructure left over from the Cold War. If this is your main source of news on the conflict you’re going to have a completely unrealistic one sided view
Not having followed Ukrainian politics for years, I was wondering what kind of relationship Zelensky has with the US-backed Svoboda crowd. That’s how I came across that article. If you have a link to a better analysis, I’d be most grateful.
Even allowing for NATO perhaps encroaching too far eastwards there is zero justification for Putin’s actions and bellicose language. Ukraine has provided nothing even approaching a casus belli.
To cause such misery to innocent civilians in a blatant act of aggression cannot be excused and is deserving of nothing save utter damnation. Any attempt to place either Ukraine or the west in the wrong of this betrays depraved thinking and obtuse stupidity.
Looking at Russias actions in Georgia, Crimea and Ukraine as a whole you can’t blame the Baltic states for trying to align themselves with NATO and the west can you
AND making the point again and again that NATO is and always will be a purely defensive alliance vs the BS from Putin that it will be/is a potentially aggressive one.
Agree! Putin’s agenda has been transparent for years we just maybe thought he was too toothless to act on it in the face of Western economic and military power. But like China he is capitalising on Western weakness, which IS, as Trump says in his unique way, very smart. He is a ruthless ex-KGB cold war relic with delusions of grandeur attempting to undo some of the humiliation of the collapse of the USSR by recapturing something of it before he shuffles off. He might be right in his assessment of the West’s current woke madness tearing us apart but that doesn’t mean he also doesn’t watch it with a degree of glee as we tie ourselves in knots over pronouns while he and Xi avd the Islamists can just carry on encouraging that (I’m sure their influence in the West has been part of the Long March through the institutions’) and doing their work for them. He may have overreacted but strategically he wouldn’t have done it if he hadn’t waited for maximum western weakness. With Biden in charge he found that moment.
We knew he wasn’t toothless- just he’s changed from the realist he seemed to be when he was inaugurated a long time ago. Instead he reads weird Russian philosophy, is isolated, and like Hitler is carrying huge resentments around. Like Trump and Kim and possibly Xi, he’s become extremely odd.
The folks at RT tonight looked really worried.
They’re beginning to realize that Putin isn’t forever.
And neither is RT.
Which would a real shame wouldn’t it, cos Putin is such a nice, reasonable fellow……
Some braw tip-toeing around these bonnie isles in order to provide metaphors for Ukrainians’ historical right to self determination with some aplomb in this essay.
And chapeau, it’s quite a feat to write an entire essay on independence going back over 1000 years, yet fail to mention the one home nation that made a bid for independence a few years ago and was a separate country a few centuries ago.
(l’m not SNP but, as a Scot, am a wee bit pissed. I’m not looking for the story of the massacre at Glencoe, but mibby a nod in the direction of the north/south divide, North Sea oil dividend or devolution successfully neutering Scots’ separatist ambitions.)
”Last summer, in an explicit warning the West utterly failed to heed”
Jeez Dominic, like every other smart*ss commentator you’re claiming we could have stood up to Putin sooner: when he invaded Georgia; when he supported Syria; when he took Crimea. And then you quote the fallacy above – we all read Putin’s speech but there was NOTHING that could be done in response because we weren’t ready.
I’m getting really irritated by these oh so clever commentators saying we could have resisted Putin sooner, when we couldn’t. And as a historian Dominic, you’re the worst of the lot, as you know it takes an unpredictable alignment of circumstances to prompt or catalyse significant actions. As I’ve been saying for months on Unherd, while most people (especially in Unherd) praised Putin’s tactical genius and the West’s woke weakness, any invasion of Ukraine by Russia would galvanise and unite the west, and result in the long term decline of Russia and the ousting of Putin. This alignment of circumstances has come to pass, maybe much faster than I expected. Putin’s done – even China won’t support him. And as I’ve said previously, we should be worrying about who is in charge of Russia and its nukes AFTER Putin.
And one huge additional silver lining to this cloud of Ukrainian misery which I hadn’t anticipated – the hostile global reaction to Putin’s invasion and the reinvigorated west, creating a western unity that should last a couple of decades, means that China is very unlikely to take Taiwan by force in the next 10 years, as they previously planned.
Weakness is strength. Strength is weakness
Is that a quote from 1948 or have I mistaken myself?
Maybe someone should have stood up to us and the US when we were flattening Iraq. Or maybe it should have been done before, at the only time in history one country deployed nuclear bombs against humans of another country, with no military need whatsoever other than to show the world who is da boss.
You are ignorant of history.
Who? There are benefits to being the world’s major military power, you can get away with quite a lot. Some would say the nuclear strikes that ended WW2 saved more than they killed. The question is who would you rather be the world’s major power. Us. The Chinese. The Russians. Or the Islamists. I know which side I’m on because on balance the West is BETTER and wields its power more benevolently than the alternatives.
Why the downvotes – this comment seems clearly apposite to me ??
I don’t think the West is as united as much as you think. It’s not as if we have actually DONE anything. What did we do about the use of novichok on British soil? Twice. Lots of noise… And nothing. Russia annexed Crimea. Lots of noise… And nothing. If Putin does take Ukraine he will likely face a local insurrection but it might not last depending how he plays it – but we’re not going to stop him because we can’t. Once he’s in he will have achieved his objective.
Superb… but the rank rubber backboned cowardice of the US and Nato is pathetic….Just how quickly would RasPutin be deposed if Nato threatened Russia with serious attack?…. a few hours?… remember Ceaucescu?…
There are insufficient western military forces in Europe to knock the skin from a rice pudding. The European west has dis-armed and I would not blame the US for deciding not to fight for people who are not willing to fund their own defence. I feel pretty much the same about the UK – British troops in The Baltic States whilst German soldiers sit at home cooking sausages on Russian gas – Really?
That is a very good point. The UK is stepping up far more than the EU and Ukraine isn’t anywhere near our borders! But the idea that the EU take this as a signal they need to heavily militarise, well that makes me uneasy too….
As horrible as it is, it’s not the wests fight. I think their response has been spot on, in arming Ukraine to the teeth and isolating Russia. Short of putting boots on the ground which I wouldn’t want personally there’s not much more that can be done
yeah but they are very slack on the ‘arming to the teeth’ – or have i missed something ?? The West can print trillions of dollars when it wants so how come so little support for Ukraine when it is so clearly in their collective interest. Or do the western ‘powers that be’ actually want the Ukraine to be martyred so that Russia can be globally marginalised ?? – and Putin is actually being manipulated without being aware of that ??
The West is already heavily in debt with problems if it’s own to fund. All in all Putin really did pick the right time to go in.