X Close

How science has been corrupted The pandemic has revealed a darkly authoritarian side to expertise

Increasingly, science is pressed into duty as authority. Kevin Frayer/Getty

Increasingly, science is pressed into duty as authority. Kevin Frayer/Getty


May 3, 2021   17 mins

When I was small, my father would conduct experiments around the house. When you blow across the top of a wine bottle, how many modes of vibration are there? How do you get the higher notes?

Another time, the matter under investigation might be the “angle of repose” of a pile of sand, as in an hour-glass. Does it depend on the particle size? On their shape? Do these factors determine the rate at which an hour-glass empties?

My favorite was the question of what technique will empty a jug of water fastest. Should you simply turn it upside down and let the air rush in (as it must, to replace the water) in that halting, glug-glug-glug fashion, or hold it at a gentler angle so the pour is unbroken? Answer: turn the jug upside down and swirl it vigorously to set up a whirlpool effect. This creates a hollow space at the centre of the flow, where air is free to enter. The jug will empty very quickly.

My father became famous for these “kitchen physics” experiments after he included assignments based on them in a textbook he wrote, published in 1968 and beloved by generations of physics students: Waves (Berkeley Physics Course, Vol. 3). My sister and I, aged two and five, are thanked in the acknowledgments for having surrendered our Slinkies to the cause.

 

He pursued such investigations, not simply as a pedagogical exercise, but to satisfy his own curiosity. And he made time for this even while working at the frontier of particle physics, in the lab of Louis Alvarez at Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory. This was fairly early on in the transition of the practice of science into “big science”.

Alvarez won the Nobel Prize in 1968 for his invention and use of the bubble chamber, an instrument for detecting particle decays. It was a device that would comfortably fit on a table top. Today you can build one yourself, if you like. But over the next few decades particle accelerators became enormous installations (CERN, SLAC) requiring the kind of real estate only governments and major institutions, indeed consortiums of institutions, can secure. Scientific papers came to have, not a handful of authors, but hundreds. Scientists became scientist-bureaucrats: savvy institutional players adept at getting government grants, managing sprawling workforces, and building research empires.

Inevitably, such an environment selected for certain human types, the kind who would find such a life appealing. A healthy dose of careerism and political talent was required. Such qualities are orthogonal, let us say, to the underlying truth-motive of science.

You can well imagine the appeal of getting back to basics for someone who was drawn to a scientific career when the prospect had a more intimate scale to it. Kitchen physics is about the pure intellectual refreshment of wondering about something that you observe in the world with your own unaided powers, and then investigating it. This is the basic image we have of what science is, immortalised in the anecdote of Galileo going up into the leaning tower of Pisa and dropping various objects to see how fast they fall.

Science as authority

In 1633, Galileo was brought before the Inquisition for his demonstration that the earth is not fixed but revolves around the sun. This was a problem, obviously, because the ecclesiastical authorities believed their legitimacy rested on a claim to have an adequate grasp of reality, as indeed it did. Galileo had no interest in being a martyr, and recanted to save his skin. But in the lore of Enlightenment, he is said to have muttered under his breath, “but it does move!”

This anecdote has a prominent place in the story we tell about what it means to be modern. On one side, science with its devotion to truth. On the other side, authority, whether ecclesiastical or political. In this tale, “science” stands for a freedom of the mind that is inherently at odds with the idea of authority.

The pandemic has brought into relief a dissonance between our idealised image of science, on the one hand, and the work “science” is called upon to do in our society, on the other. I think the dissonance can be traced to this mismatch between science as an activity of the solitary mind, and the institutional reality of it. Big science is fundamentally social in its practice, and with this comes certain entailments.

As a practical matter, “politicised science” is the only kind there is (or rather, the only kind you are likely to hear about). But it is precisely the apolitical image of science, as disinterested arbiter of reality, that makes it such a powerful instrument of politics. This contradiction is now out in the open. The “anti-science” tendencies of populism are in significant measure a response to the gap that has opened up between the practice of science and the ideal that underwrites its authority. As a way of generating knowledge, it is the pride of science to be falsifiable (unlike religion).

Yet what sort of authority would it be that insists its own grasp of reality is merely provisional? Presumably, the whole point of authority is to explain reality and provide certainty in an uncertain world, for the sake of social coordination, even at the price of simplification. To serve the role assigned it, science must become something more like religion.

The chorus of complaints about a declining “faith in science” states the problem almost too frankly. The most reprobate among us are climate sceptics, unless those be the Covid deniers, who are charged with not obeying the science. If all this has a medieval sound, it ought to give us pause.

We live in a mixed regime, an unstable hybrid of democratic and technocratic forms of authority. Science and popular opinion must be made to speak with one voice as far as possible, or there is conflict. According to the official story, we try to harmonise scientific knowledge and opinion through education. But in reality, science is hard, and there is a lot of it. We have to take it mostly on faith. That goes for most journalists and professors, as well as plumbers. The work of reconciling science and public opinion is carried out, not through education, but through a kind of distributed demagogy, or Scientism. We are learning that this is not a stable solution to the perennial problem of authority that every society must solve.

The phrase “follow the science” has a false ring to it. That is because science doesn’t lead anywhere. It can illuminate various courses of action, by quantifying the risks and specifying the tradeoffs. But it can’t make the necessary choices for us. By pretending otherwise, decision-makers can avoid taking responsibility for the choices they make on our behalf.

Increasingly, science is pressed into duty as authority. It is invoked to legitimise the transfer of sovereignty from democratic to technocratic bodies, and as a device for insulating such moves from the realm of political contest.

Over the past year, a fearful public has acquiesced to an extraordinary extension of expert jurisdiction over every domain of life. A pattern of “government by emergency” has become prominent, in which resistance to such incursions are characterised as “anti-science”.

But the question of political legitimacy hanging over rule by experts is not likely to go away. If anything, it will be more fiercely fought in coming years as leaders of governing bodies invoke a climate emergency that is said to require a wholesale transformation of society. We need to know how we arrived here.

In The Revolt of the Public, former intelligence analyst Martin Gurri traces the roots of a “politics of negation” that has engulfed Western societies, tied to a wholesale collapse of authority across all domains ­— politics, journalism, finance, religion, science. He blames it on the internet. Authority has always been located in hierarchical structures of expertise, guarded by accreditation and long apprenticeship, whose members develop a “reflexive loathing of the amateur trespasser”.

For authority to be really authoritative, it must claim an epistemic monopoly of some kind, whether of priestly or scientific knowledge. In the 20th century, especially after the spectacular successes of the Manhattan Project and the Apollo moon landing, there developed a spiral wherein the public came to expect miracles of technical expertise (flying cars and moon colonies were thought to be imminent). Reciprocally, stoking expectations of social utility is normalised in the processes of grant-seeking and institutional competition that are now inseparable from scientific practice.

The system was sustainable, if uneasily so, as long as inevitable failures could be kept offstage. This required robust gatekeeping, such that the assessment of institutional performance was an intra-elite affair (the blue-ribbon commission; peer review), allowing for the development of “informal pacts of mutual protection”, as Gurri puts it. The internet, and the social media which disseminate instances of failure with relish, have made such gatekeeping impossible. That is the core of the very parsimonious and illuminating argument by which Gurri accounts for the revolt of the public.

In recent years, a replication crisis in science has swept aside a disturbing number of the findings once thought robust in many fields. This has included findings that lie at the foundation of whole research programs and scientific empires, now crumbled. The reasons for these failures are fascinating, and provide a glimpse into the human element of scientific practice.

Henry H. Bauer, chemistry professor and former dean of arts and sciences at Virginia Tech, published a paper in 2004 in which he undertook to describe how science is actually conducted in the 21st century: it is, he says, fundamentally corporate (in the sense of being collective). “It remains to be appreciated that 21st-century science is a different kind of thing than the ‘modern science’ of the 17th through 20th centuries….”

Now, science is primarily organised around “knowledge monopolies” that exclude dissident views. They do so not as a matter of piecemeal failures of open-mindedness by individuals jealous of their turf, but systemically.

The all-important process of peer review depends on disinterestedness, as well as competence. “Since about the middle of the 20th century, however, the costs of research and the need for teams of cooperating specialists have made it increasingly difficult to find reviewers who are both directly knowledgeable and also disinterested; truly informed people are effectively either colleagues or competitors.”

Bauer writes that “journeymen peer-reviewers tend to stifle rather than encourage creativity and genuine innovation. Centralized funding and centralized decision-making make science more bureaucratic and less an activity of independent, self-motivated truth-seekers.” In universities, “the measure of scientific achievement becomes the amount of ‘research support’ brought in, not the production of useful knowledge”. (University administrations skim a standard 50% off the top of any grant to cover the “indirect costs” of supporting the research.)

Given the resources required to conduct big science, it needs to serve some institutional master, whether that be commercial or governmental. In the last 12 months we have seen the pharmaceutical industry and its underlying capacity for scientific accomplishment at its best. The development of mRNA vaccines represents a breakthrough of real consequence. This has occurred in commercial laboratories that were temporarily relieved of the need to impress financial markets or stoke consumer demand by large infusions of government support. This ought to give pause to the political reflex to demonise pharmaceutical companies that is prevalent on both the Left and the Right.

But it cannot be assumed that “the bottom line” exerts a disciplining function on scientific research that automatically aligns it with the truth motive. Notoriously, pharmaceutical companies have, on a significant scale, paid physicians to praise, recommend and prescribe their products, and recruited researchers to put their names to articles ghost-written by the firms which are then placed in scientific and professional journals. Worse, the clinical trials whose results are relied upon by federal agencies in deciding whether to approve drugs as safe and effective are generally conducted or commissioned by the pharmaceutical companies themselves.

The bigness of big science — both the corporate form of the activity, and its need for large resources generated otherwise than by science itself — places science squarely in the world of extra-scientific concerns, then. Including those concerns taken up by political lobbies. If the concern has a high profile, any dissent from the official consensus may be hazardous to an investigator’s career.

Public opinion polls generally indicate that what “everybody knows” about some scientific matter, and its bearing on public interests, will be identical to the well-institutionalized view. This is unsurprising, given the role the media plays in creating consensus. Journalists, rarely competent to assess scientific statements critically, cooperate in propagating the pronouncements of self-protecting “research cartels” as science.

Bauer’s concept of a research cartel came into public awareness in an episode that occurred five years after his article appeared. In 2009, someone hacked the emails of the Climate Research Unit at the University of East Anglia in Britain and released them, prompting the “climategate” scandal in which the scientists who sat atop the climate bureaucracy were revealed to be stonewalling against requests for their data from outsiders. This was at a time when many fields, in response to their own replication crises, were adopting data sharing as a norm in their research communities, as well as other practices such as reporting null findings and the pre-registration of hypotheses in shared forums.

The climate research cartel staked its authority on the peer review process of journals deemed legitimate, which meddling challengers had not undergone. But, as Gurri notes in his treatment of climategate, “since the group largely controlled peer review for their field, and a consuming subject of the emails was how to keep dissenting voices out of the journals and the media, the claim rested on a circular logic”.

One can be fully convinced of the reality and dire consequences of climate change while also permitting oneself some curiosity about the political pressures that bear on the science, I hope. Try to imagine the larger setting when the IPPC convenes. Powerful organisations are staffed up, with resolutions prepared, communications strategies in place, corporate “global partners” secured, interagency task forces standing by and diplomatic channels open, waiting to receive the good word from an empaneled group of scientists working in committee.

This is not a setting conducive to reservations, qualifications, or second thoughts. The function of the body is to produce a product: political legitimacy.

The third leg: moralism

The climategate scandal delivered a blow to the IPPC, and therefore to the networked centres of power for which it serves as science-settler. This perhaps led to a heightened receptivity in those centres for the arrival of a figure such as Greta Thunberg who escalates the moral urgency of the cause (“How dare you!), giving it an impressive human face that can galvanise mass energy. She is notable both for being knowledgeable and for being a child, even younger and more fragile-looking than her age, and therefore an ideal victim-sage.

There appears to be a pattern, not limited to climate science-politics, in which the mass energy galvanised by celebrities (who always speak with certainty) strengthens the hand of activists to organise campaigns in which any research institution that fails to discipline a dissident investigator is said to be serving as a channel of “disinformation”. The institution is placed under a kind of moral receivership, to be lifted when the heads of the institution denounce the offending investigator and distance themselves from his or her findings. They then seek to repair the damage by affirming the ends of the activists in terms that out-do the affirmations of rival institutions.

As this iterates across different areas of establishment thinking, especially those that touch on ideological taboos, it follows a logic of escalation that restricts the types of inquiry that are acceptable for research supported by institutions, and shifts them in the direction dictated by political lobbies.

Needless to say, all this takes place far from the field of scientific argument, but the drama is presented as one of restoring scientific integrity. In the internet era of relatively open information flows, a cartel of expertise can be maintained only if it is part of a larger body of organised opinion and interests that, together, are able to run a sort of moral-epistemic protection racket. Reciprocally, political lobbies depend on scientific bodies that are willing to play their part.

This could be viewed as part of a larger shift within institutions from a culture of persuasion to one in which coercive moral decrees emanate from somewhere above, hard to locate precisely, but conveyed in the ethical style of HR. Weakened by the uncontrolled dissemination of information and attendant fracturing of authority, the institutions that ratify particular pictures of what is going on in the world must not merely assert a monopoly of knowledge, but place a moratorium on the asking of questions and noticing of patterns.

Research cartels mobilise the denunciatory energies of political activists to run interference and, reciprocally, the priorities of activist NGOs and foundations meter the flow of funding and political support to research bodies, in a circle of mutual support.

One of the most striking features of the present, for anyone alert to politics, is that we are increasingly governed through the device of panics that give every appearance of being contrived to generate acquiescence in a public that has grown skeptical of institutions built on claims of expertise. And this is happening across many domains. Policy challenges from outsiders presented through fact and argument, offering some picture of what is going on in the world that is rival to the prevailing one, are not answered in kind, but are met rather with denunciation. In this way, epistemic threats to institutional authority are resolved into moral conflicts between good people and bad people.

The ramped-up moral content of pronouncements that are ostensibly expert-technical needs to be explained. I suggested there are two rival sources of political legitimacy, science and popular opinion, that are imperfectly reconciled through a kind of distributed demagogy, which we may call scientism. This demagogy is distributed in the sense that interlocked centers of power rely on it to mutually prop one another up.

But as this arrangement has begun to totter, with popular opinion coming untethered from expert authority and newly assertive against it, a third leg has been added to the structure in an effort to stabilise it: the moral splendor of the Victim. To stand with the Victim, as every major institution now appears to do, is to arrest criticism. Such is the hope, at any rate.

In the unforgettable Summer of 2020, the moral energy of anti-racism was harnessed to the scientific authority of public health, and vice versa. Thus “white supremacy” was a public health emergency — one urgent enough to dictate the suspension of social distancing mandates for the sake of protests. So how did the description of America as white supremacist get converted into a scientific-sounding claim?

Michael Lind has argued that covid laid bare a class war, not between labor and capital, but between two groups that could both be called “elites”: on one side, small business owners who opposed lockdowns and, on the other, professionals who enjoyed greater job security, were able to work from home, and typically took a maximalist position on hygiene politics. We can add that, being in the “knowledge economy,” professionals naturally show more deference to experts, since the basic currency of the knowledge economy is epistemic prestige.

This divide got mapped onto the pre-existing schism that had organised itself around President Trump, with the population sorted into good people and bad people. For professionals, not just the status of one’s soul, but one’s standing and viability in the institutional economy, depended on getting conspicuously on the right side of that divide. According to the Manichaean binary established in 2016, the fundamental question mark over one’s head is that of the strength and sincerity of one’s anti-racism. For white people who worked in technical bodies connected to public health, the confluence of the George Floyd protests and the pandemic seemed to have presented an opportunity to convert their moral precarity on the issue of race into its opposite: moral authority.

Over 1,200 health experts, speaking as health experts, signed an open letter encouraging mass protests as necessary to address the “pervasive lethal force of white supremacy”. This pervasive force is something they are specially qualified to detect by their scientific knowledge. Editorials in journals such as The Lancet, The New England Journal of Medicine, Scientific American and even Nature now speak the language of Critical Race Theory, invoking the invisible miasma of “whiteness” as explanatory device, controlling variable and justification for whatever pandemic policy prescription it seems good to align themselves with.

The science is remarkably clear. It has also been bent to expansive purposes. In February 2021, the medical journal The Lancet convened a Commission on Public Policy and Health in the Trump Era to deplore the president’s politicisation of science – while urging “science-led proposals” that would address public health through reparations for descendants of slaves and other victims of historical oppression, the enhancement of affirmative action, and the adoption of the Green New Deal, among other measures. One can certainly make a case for such policies sincerely, freely, and with due consideration. Many people have. But perhaps it is also the case that the moral sorting and resulting insecurity among technocratic professionals has made them quick to defer to activists and sign on to grander visions of a transformed society.

The spectacular success of “public health” in generating fearful acquiescence in the population during the pandemic has created a rush to take every technocratic-progressive project that would have poor chances if pursued democratically, and cast it as a response to some existential threat. In the first week of the Biden administration, the Senate majority leader urged the president to declare a “climate emergency” and assume powers that would authorise him to sidestep Congress and rule by executive fiat. Ominously, we are being prepared for “climate lockdowns”.

The wisdom of the East

Western nations have long had contingency plans for dealing with pandemics, in which quarantine measures were delimited by liberal principles – respecting individual autonomy and avoiding coercion as much as possible. Thus, it was the already-infected and the especially vulnerable who should be isolated, as opposed to locking healthy people in their homes. China, on the other hand, is an authoritarian regime that solves collective problems through rigorous control of its population and pervasive surveillance. Accordingly, when the COVID pandemic began in earnest, China locked down all activities in Wuhan and other affected areas. In the West, it was simply assumed that such a course of action was not an available option.

As UK epidemiologist Neil Ferguson said to the Times last December: “It’s a communist one-party state, we said. We couldn’t get away with [lockdowns] in Europe, we thought… and then Italy did it. And we realised we could.” He added that “These days, lockdown feels inevitable.”

Thus, what had seemed impossible due to the bedrock principles of Western society now feels not merely possible but inevitable. And this complete inversion happened over the course of a few months.

Acceptance of such a bargain would seem to depend entirely on the gravity of the threat. There is surely some point of hazard beyond which liberal principles become an unaffordable luxury. Covid is indeed a very serious illness, with an infection fatality rate about ten times higher than that of the flu: roughly one percent of all those who are infected die. Also, however, unlike the flu this mortality rate is so skewed by age and other risk factors, varying by more than a thousand-fold from the very young to the very old, that the aggregate figure of one percent can be misleading. As of November 2020, the average age of those killed by Covid in Britain was 82.4 years old.

In July of 2020, 29 % of British citizens believed that “6-10 percent or higher” of the population had already been killed by Covid. About 50% of those polled had a more realistic estimate of 1%. The actual figure was about one tenth of one percent. So the public’s perception of the risk of dying of Covid was inflated by one to two orders of magnitude. This is highly significant.

Public opinion matters in the West far more than in China. Only if people are sufficiently scared will they give up basic liberties for the sake of security – this is the basic formula of Hobbes’s Leviathan. Stoking fear has long been an essential element of the business model of mass media, and this appears to be on a trajectory of integration with state functions in the West, in a tightening symbiosis. While the Chinese government resorts to external coercion, in the West coercion must come from inside; from a mental state in the individual. The state is nominally in the hands of people elected to serve as representatives of the people, so it cannot be an object of fear. Something else must be the source of fear, so the state may play the role of saving us. But playing this role requires that state power be directed by experts.

Early in 2020, public opinion accepted the necessity of a short-term suspension of basic liberties on the supposition that, once the emergency had passed, we could go back to being not-China. But this is to assume a robustness of liberal political culture that may not be warranted. Lord Sumption, a jurist and retired member of the UK’s Supreme Court, makes a case for regarding lockdowns in the West as the crossing of a line that is not likely to get uncrossed. In an interview with Freddie Sayers at UnHerd, he points out that, by law, the government has broad powers to act under emergency. “There are many things governments can do, which it is generally accepted they should not do. And one of them, until last March, was to lock up healthy people in their homes.”

He makes the Burkean observation that our status as a free society rests, not on laws, but on convention, a “collective instinct” about what we ought to do, rooted in habits of thinking and feeling that develop slowly over decades and centuries. These are fragile. It is far easier to destroy a convention than to establish one. This suggests going back to being not-China may be quite difficult.

As Lord Sumption says, “When you depend for your basic freedoms on convention, rather than law, once the convention is broken, the spell is broken. Once you get to a position where it is unthinkable to lock people up, nationally, except when somebody thinks it’s a good idea, then frankly there is no longer any barrier at all. We have crossed that threshold. And governments do not forget these things. I think this is a model that will come to be accepted, if we are not very careful, as a way of dealing with all manner of collective problems.” In the US as in the UK, the government has immense powers. “The only thing that protects us from the despotic use of that power is a convention that we have decided to discard.”

Clearly, an admiration for Chinese-style governance has been blossoming in what we call centrist opinion, in large part as a response to the populist upsets of the Trump and Brexit era. It is also clear that “Science” (as opposed to actual science) is playing an important role in this. Like other forms of demagogy, scientism presents stylised facts and a curated picture of reality. In doing so, it may generate fears strong enough to render democratic principles moot.

The pandemic is now in retreat and the vaccines are available to all who want them in most parts of the United States. But many people refuse to give up their masks, as though they had joined some new religious order. The wide deployment of fear as an instrument of state propaganda has had a disorienting effect, such that our perception of risk has come detached from reality.

We accept all manner of risks in the course of life, without thinking about it. To pick one out and make it an object of intense focus is to adopt a distorted outlook that has real costs, paid somewhere beyond the rim of one’s tunnel vision. To see our away out of this — to place risks in their proper context — requires an affirmation of life, refocusing on all those worthwhile activities that elevate existence beyond the merely vegetative.

Losing face

Perhaps the pandemic has merely accelerated, and given official warrant to, our long slide toward atomisation. By the nakedness of our faces we encounter one another as individuals, and in doing so we experience fleeting moments of grace and trust. To hide our faces behind masks is to withdraw this invitation. This has to be politically significant.

Perhaps it is through such microscopic moments that we become aware of ourselves as a people, bound up in a shared fate. That’s what solidarity is. Solidarity, in turn, is the best bulwark against despotism, as Hannah Arendt noted in On The Origins of Totalitarianism. Withdrawal from such encounter now has the stamp of good citizenship, i.e., good hygiene. But what sort of regime are we to be citizens of?

“Following the science” to minimise certain risks while ignoring others absolves us of exercising our own judgment, anchored in some sense of what makes life worthwhile. It also relieves us of the existential challenge of throwing ourselves into an uncertain world with hope and confidence. A society incapable of affirming life and accepting death will be populated by the walking dead, adherents of a cult of the demi-life who clamour for ever more guidance from experts.

It has been said, a people gets the government it deserves.


Matthew B Crawford writes the substack Archedelia


Join the discussion


Join like minded readers that support our journalism by becoming a paid subscriber


To join the discussion in the comments, become a paid subscriber.

Join like minded readers that support our journalism, read unlimited articles and enjoy other subscriber-only benefits.

Subscribe
Subscribe
Notify of
guest

407 Comments
Most Voted
Newest Oldest
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
Brian Dorsley
Brian Dorsley
2 years ago

A brilliant article. Agreed with every word of it. I’ve become jaded at how many people around me are so quick to give up their freedoms in order to feel safe.

Mark Preston
Mark Preston
2 years ago
Reply to  Brian Dorsley

I’ve become jaded at the realisation of just how complaint and stupid people have shown themselves to be. I feel like a stranger in my own land.

Jonathan Oldbuck
Jonathan Oldbuck
2 years ago
Reply to  Mark Preston

FWIW I completely agree about being a stranger in one’s own land. I have largely hidden myself away during this disaster, being self-employed for the last few years helped that. But now I think I will struggle to get on with anyone who doesn’t think that we’re currently living in a totalitarian clown world. The people who willingly demean themselves and everybody else by strapping on their muzzles like an animal mystify and depress me in equal measure.

Russ Littler
Russ Littler
2 years ago

Same here. I am absolutely dismayed at the sheer stupidity of Joe public. It’s hard to fathom why so-called, “intelligent” people have fallen for this crud hook, line, and sinker.

Paul Wright
Paul Wright
2 years ago
Reply to  Russ Littler

I am absolutely dismayed at the sheer stupidity of Joe public

Look, we voted for Brexit. Get over it.

It’s hard to fathom why so-called, “intelligent” people have fallen for this crud hook, line, and sinker.

If you remember back to October 2020, you said

Please remember these words, because within the next 3 months many of these people (medical experts) will be facing serious charges.

Should intelligent people have believed that? Doubtless the 77th Brigade have used their orbital mind control lasers to prevent these prosecutions, which otherwise would have taken place?

Starry Gordon
Starry Gordon
2 years ago
Reply to  Russ Littler

I started studying the plague some time in January 2020. By February, I thought it best to stock up. In March, as it was beginning to take hold in New York, where I live, I read dire predictions of hospitals overflowing and forced to practice triage on people like me, and understood that I was on my own. (Indeed, some hospitals did go over capacity, but no one was put in the back alley that I know about.) I read whatever I could find that seemed semi-rational, and came to the conclusion that I would have to practice strict isolation for the duration. It did not seem like something anyone could fool with. I do know some people who fooled with it and got caught. Masks? Certainly, but you couldn’t buy one that wasn’t a fake for many months. So I made one of my own, with alternating layers of high-count cotton and silk. It was sort of black and pointy, so I painted big white teeth on it. The evidence that the plague was airborne convinced me, in spite of the CDC, and I stayed out of enclosed structures, especially those lacking vigorous ventilation, even though using a mask. I don’t see anything stupid, ignorant, or irrational about any of that. Maybe you all can explain. Don’t forget to account for survivors’ bias.

Galeti Tavas
Galeti Tavas
2 years ago

I openly defied all the lockdown rules – would not mask although I had to put up with huge amounts of disapproving radiating from the masked sheep (although they do not look you in the eye, but avoid eye contact, but you still feel it – much easier to mask, but I refuse to have my rights as a free man taken). During the actual lockdown my employee and I worked in public view all the time, no one said anything. Open defiance is vital to keep freedom! I am glad I was not in London or I would have racked up loads of tickets – but freedom must be paid for, it is NOT free in cost.

Jonathan Oldbuck
Jonathan Oldbuck
2 years ago
Reply to  Galeti Tavas

Thanks for sharing. Well done!

Starry Gordon
Starry Gordon
2 years ago
Reply to  Galeti Tavas

I thought the plague was rather like a war. I was born in 1939, and grew up in coastal New Jersey, so I actually have vague memories of the war and its numerous inconveniences and panics, and heard all the war stories later. Of course, we were not being bombed every day, so it was kind of an easy war for us, but still no gasoline, no tires, no butter, strict light discipline, young men going off and not coming back alive, and so on. One thing I did not observe was people denying that there was a war going on, and that something needed to be done about it. I suppose today one would see that, plus loud complaints that one’s freedom was being interfered with. It’s kind of interesting to contemplate the difference.

Last edited 2 years ago by Starry Gordon
Tim Bartlett
Tim Bartlett
2 years ago

While I strongly suspect wearing a mask is vanishingly close to pointless, wearing one because a legitimate, democratic government has told me to is simply civilised. We all have the option of voting in a more reasonable one next time.

kathleen carr
kathleen carr
2 years ago
Reply to  Tim Bartlett

Except that the voting choice used to be Labour-big government & Conservative smaller. Now they are really just the same political party.

Joe Smith
Joe Smith
2 years ago
Reply to  kathleen carr

You can’t get much bigger govt than the Tories doing a lockdown. Only difference with Labour is that Labour want to spend even more. It’s more a comparison of massive govt or even more massive govt.

JulieT Boddington
JulieT Boddington
2 years ago
Reply to  Tim Bartlett

Who will be reasonable? Keir Starmer appears to be even more keen to lock down.Who can we vote for?

Tim Bartlett
Tim Bartlett
2 years ago

If theres no real choice then it’s up to us to make a new one. Nigel Farage didn’t just accept the status quo. You have to be prepared to act.

Galeti Tavas
Galeti Tavas
2 years ago
Reply to  Tim Bartlett

Rosa Parks.

Val Colic-Peisker
Val Colic-Peisker
2 years ago
Reply to  Tim Bartlett

As several responses below state, where do you find the ‘reasonable people’ to vote for? Surely not in Australia! The two main parties are barely different. Politics is such a sorry business that intelligent and decent people (and those ‘reasonable’) keep well away from it, or drop out soon.

kathleen carr
kathleen carr
2 years ago

I don’t think you should confuse compliance with pacifity. I get the feeling few people believe a word of it now- maybe at first but not so much now. I think they are waiting to see which way the wind blows.

Jonathan Oldbuck
Jonathan Oldbuck
2 years ago
Reply to  kathleen carr

I accept that and certainly hope you’re right. But some people seem to be perfectly content to wait for the rest of time until somebody tells them it’s ok to show their faces again and pass within arms length of somebody else. Until last year I didn’t know there would be so many of them around me. I have been shocked to discover how many there are.

Philip Burrell
Philip Burrell
2 years ago
Reply to  Mark Preston

You are quite right Lee. There is a deeply unpleasant level of completely unjustified superiority about many of the BTL commenters when they write about the views and behaviour of the people in this country. I note the same commenter referred to the electorate as “morons” earlier on this page.
Odd how the hoi polloi were so wonderfully enlightened when they voted for Brexit but not when they complied with curbs on their freedom during a pandemic.
Ironically this selfsame smug air of superiority is reflected in the behaviour and policies of the current government, which I suspect most BTL commenters voted for, so they have certainly got the “government they deserved”.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
2 years ago
Reply to  Philip Burrell

hoi polloi = the many.
Thus the hoi polloi = the the many.

QED.

Chris Wheatley
Chris Wheatley
2 years ago

I remember George making this point. Of course, technically you are correct but everyday usage has a way of working in to become correct.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
2 years ago
Reply to  Mark Preston

“Manners Makyth Man”.

Chris Wheatley
Chris Wheatley
2 years ago

Surely, ‘maketh’.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
2 years ago
Reply to  Chris Wheatley

Not in the ‘original’ at New College or Winchester.

Last time I mentioned it in the modern/ your version but someone (a Wykehamist ?) objected!

Chris Wheatley
Chris Wheatley
2 years ago

OK. Point taken.

X Carys
X Carys
2 years ago
Reply to  Mark Preston

Why were you so rude?

Russ Littler
Russ Littler
2 years ago
Reply to  Mark Preston

That’s not an argument….?

X Carys
X Carys
2 years ago
Reply to  Mark Preston

Why are you so rude?

Ethniciodo Rodenydo
Ethniciodo Rodenydo
2 years ago
Reply to  Mark Preston

About the best article I have read on Unherd. More than a stranger in my own land, the feeling of isolation make it seems more like invasion of the body snatchers.
Many people I have spoken to do not necessarily believe in what they are being asked to do. They comply for an easy life and because they cannot see any harm in it.

Will R
Will R
2 years ago
Reply to  Mark Preston

I think you mean ‘stupid’ people being ‘compliant’ ?

Lee Johnson
Lee Johnson
2 years ago
Reply to  Brian Dorsley

But the real joke is that they gave up their freedoms so that others could be safe, and you couldn’t even realise that fact.

Alan Thorpe
Alan Thorpe
2 years ago
Reply to  Lee Johnson

That is a poor argument since we never apply it to influenza and there can be many deaths from that. Common sense rather than government rules is normally sufficient, since people who are ill stay at home. Now people who have no symptoms of any illness are told to isolate and we have a mass vaccination programme of healthy people. Your argument assumes that we have a responsibility for the health and safety of other people. If this is the case, are we expected to advise every obese person about how to eat healthily, stop anybody smoking in the street, stop people drinking sugary drinks, or even stop them getting into cars because there is a risk of injury or death with every journey?

mattpope145
mattpope145
2 years ago
Reply to  Alan Thorpe

We don’t apply it to influenza, nor any of the other examples mentioned, but I don’t think the comparisons are fair. Influenza we have learned to live with over its long history, but during the Spanish Flu pandemic measures were taken that proscribed some civil liberties. The others (obesity, smoking) are more individually-based, and often involve personal choices the prohibiting of which would seem like more of a selective, and so discriminatory, ban on people’s freedoms. Incidentally smoking inside is banned because the freedom to be in a smoke-free environment trumps the wish of smokers to smoke indoors. This is now considered basic consideration, however much some libertarians bemoan it as another case lost to the nanny state.
A blanket ban on general freedoms because of a relatively unforeseen emergency is apparently easier to stomach because to those who accept it it feels like something nobody wants. In this case compliance doesn’t feel like an act of so-called depersonalisation (the Nepalese have been wearing masks in Kathmandu for a fair while and their sense of shared humanity seems very much intact, and deeper than what you’d find in London) instead it feels like an expression of solidarity.
The relinquishing of personal freedoms and the accompanying propaganda, if that’s not too strong a term (Michael Gove’s November essay) may make you queasy for all the reasons Crawford gives, but it must be understood that the main idea behind such a ‘surrendering’ is that extraordinary times demand extraordinary measures. Obviously the fears that emergencies, however overblown, may ‘make democratic principles moot’ are founded, and the careful, evidential construction of this argument over the course of the article is what makes it so good.

Last edited 2 years ago by mattpope145
Russ Littler
Russ Littler
2 years ago
Reply to  mattpope145

…so would these journalists be much better employed if they actually did some old-fashioned investigative journalism, and exposed the whole covid scam? If the media and medical profession did the job they were supposed to do, they couldn’t have gotten away with this scam.

Andrew Fisher
Andrew Fisher
2 years ago
Reply to  Russ Littler

“Covid scam” – £120,000 dead in the UK (or thereabouts). Some scam.

And I’m not quite sure whose interests in the current UK government, this ‘scam’ is supposed to serve..

Last edited 2 years ago by Andrew Fisher
Terence Riordan
Terence Riordan
2 years ago
Reply to  Andrew Fisher

120,000 death certificates assigned to Covid to support the Project Fear. Cases in the “Waves” changed from presented at hospital with real symptoms to a positive result on a test and are plotted on the same graph…just shows how much the public data means….not a fat lot….including deaths.

JulieT Boddington
JulieT Boddington
2 years ago

Quite right.

Jonathan Smith
Jonathan Smith
2 years ago
Reply to  Andrew Fisher

Context and comparisons are all. 120k deaths assigned to Covid (within 28 days of +ve PCR test with or without Covid 19 signs or symptoms; alternatively simply attested to by nursing home staff or one physician) that occurred over 2 respiratory virus seasons set against c600k/annum all cause deaths.

Gandydancer x
Gandydancer x
2 years ago
Reply to  Andrew Fisher

Have you figured out how many deaths would be attributed to vaccines if the criteria were as loose and the incentives as insistent and/or lucrative?

JulieT Boddington
JulieT Boddington
2 years ago
Reply to  Russ Littler

They were afraid of being vicitimised and so lose their jobs – terribly sad state of affairs to put it mildly!

Kathy Prendergast
Kathy Prendergast
2 years ago
Reply to  mattpope145

“Asymptomatic spread” as a significant means of spreading this virus has been thoroughly debunked. Viruses are spread by sick people with active symptoms. Hence the strong injunction we’ve always given to people with the flu to STAY HOME. Not, “Go out and about if you want, go to work, go to school, use the bus and train, go to bars, concerts, etc., but be sure to wear a mask.” Any doctor proposing that as a flu preventative measure in 2019 would have been laughed out of the room.
I am under no moral and certainly no legal obligation to go through life assuming that – even when I feel 100 percent fine – I may be carrying some dangerous virus that some unsuspecting person may catch unless I cover my nose and mouth everywhere.

kathleen carr
kathleen carr
2 years ago

To be devil’s advocate I do prefer not to be sneezed on by someone not obviously shown the ‘hankie technique’ and masks have prevented this. I do agree with your points though and also wonder why these ‘green’ charities don’t seem to mind all these discarded masks?

Kathy Prendergast
Kathy Prendergast
2 years ago
Reply to  kathleen carr

Obviously sneezing on someone is terrible manners, but (I think) a pretty rare occurance. And as we now know that asymptomatic spreadis mostly a crock, unless that person who sneezed on you is actively ill its highly unlikely theyll infect you. Ive actually always found it a bit peculiar that sneezing is interpreted as a sign of illness; it isnt (except a possible sign of allergies, which arent contagious), although excessive coughing is. Sneezing is just a way for the nasal passages to expel irritants, so actually something thats good for us. And anyway, even if a sneezer is wearing a mask, plenty of fluid gets expelled through the mask, which will still get on anyone close by if they dont still cover their mouth with a hand or arm, or hankie.

Gandydancer x
Gandydancer x
2 years ago
Reply to  mattpope145

Smoking is routinely banned outside now, too.
I don’t care for it anywhere, but see no reason why it can’t be done indoors if I have a fair opportunity to not go in such places.
Similar thinking ought apply to masks. Even more so to vaccination, and more than that with experimental vaccines.

Last edited 2 years ago by Gandydancer x
Dougie Undersub
Dougie Undersub
2 years ago
Reply to  Alan Thorpe

Er, vaccination programmes always involve healthy people. That’s the point.

kathleen carr
kathleen carr
2 years ago

No the usual flu vaccination is offered free only to the elderly and those with health problems and is usually administered at the doctors or chemists . Everyone else ie the healthy adults, pay and can get it from a variety of sources-sometimes the work place organizes them.

Paul N
Paul N
2 years ago
Reply to  Alan Thorpe

 Alan says like it’s a bad thing:

“we have a mass vaccination programme of healthy people”

Aren’t vaccines usually given to healthy people? I know some can sometimes be used therapeutically, but that’s much much less common.

John Mcalester
John Mcalester
2 years ago
Reply to  Lee Johnson

So why don’t we ban all motorised transport so pedestrians can be safe ?
The answer is perspective and risk.

kathleen carr
kathleen carr
2 years ago
Reply to  John Mcalester

Theres the potential for everything to cause some sort of harm-the reason it is not usually exaggerated by the media or the medical profession is economic. It would therefore seem that there is an enormous commercial value to some (helped by the medical and scientific community ) to panic people about this particular virus. An obvious change has been the virtual end of cash as a means of exchange and the cards that we use can be easily tracked.People have also had their lives controlled and limited in ways unseen outside wartime, using a medical emergency as the reason.

Rasmus Fogh
Rasmus Fogh
2 years ago
Reply to  kathleen carr

Or, alternatively, there is good reason to worry about this particular disease because it is new, clearly quite dangerous, and we do not know enough to say exactly how dangerous it might be. If people can legitimately worry about fairly well understood and thoroughly tested vaccines, surely we can worry about new and deadly diseases?

Last edited 2 years ago by Rasmus Fogh
kathleen carr
kathleen carr
2 years ago
Reply to  Rasmus Fogh

Well thank goodness we have such trusty scientists as Professor Ferguson to lead us-three wrong predictions out of three isn’t bad is it? I was never very good at maths ,though neither it seems is he.

kathleen carr
kathleen carr
2 years ago
Reply to  kathleen carr

Interesting that all these experts and politicians who want us to ‘fear’ this new virus were brave enough to break their own rules and sanctions for various ( noble I am sure ) reasons.

Rasmus Fogh
Rasmus Fogh
2 years ago
Reply to  kathleen carr

According to you, how many people have died from COVID in the UK so far?

Back in spring 2020, Ferguson published some hurried models showing a possible maximum of 500000 dead if nobody did any prevention measure, and maybe 250000 under some more reasonable assumptions (if I remember rightly). Around the same time Sunetra Gupta published some other models with other assumptions, one of which suggested that the UK was close to herd immunity already. Ferguson seems to be rather closer to the mark, but I would not knock either – with what was known at the time both scenarios were possible. That was the point – showing the range of possible outcomes and what the risks might be. The decision was that just the risk that Ferguson might be right was enough to warrant countermeasures. You may not like that decision, but Ferguson was surely no more wrong than Gupta was.

Last edited 2 years ago by Rasmus Fogh
Russ Littler
Russ Littler
2 years ago
Reply to  Rasmus Fogh

I cannot begin to fathom out why you are condoning the absolute drivel put out by Ferguson. In any other profession, he would be fired immediately for such gross negligence and incompetence. He has crippled the economy, killed thousands of elderly people with absurd nursing home policies, and probably millions more from medical negligence, ie, cancelled vital appointments. I for one, cannot wait for these criminals to be tried in the Hague.

Rasmus Fogh
Rasmus Fogh
2 years ago
Reply to  Russ Littler

You really need to separate the fact-finding from the decision-making. Ferguson (just like Gupta) put out a scenario model with specified assumptions and simplified but technically correct calculations (no one has proved the contrary yet)). That is his job. He showed that 250000 deaths could be a plausible outcome, just like Gupta showed that a different set of possible assumptions would give many fewer deaths. Given the ignorance and the time constraints both were reasonable calculations – the situation was very uncertain. The government and their advisers evaluated the plausibility of the available scenarios, and considered the risks. – and Boris Johnson decided what to do about the economy, nursing homes, and all the rest.
It is up to the government to balance different considerations and decide what to do – and politicians are surely better at dealing with decision-making under stress and uncertainty than scientists are. Anyway it is their job. The Danish prime minister explicitly overruled her health advisers to introduce lockdown, and the Swedish prime minister decided to ignore Ferguson and let his health advisers decide for him. Both took responsibility for their actions. The Boris and his friends really ought to do the same,

Last edited 2 years ago by Rasmus Fogh
Johnny Sutherland
Johnny Sutherland
2 years ago
Reply to  Rasmus Fogh

You make it seem as though all the government had to do was choose between the two models and that they erred on the side of caution. My memory says that it was the media screaming that forced a decision against what our PM really wanted to do.

Rasmus Fogh
Rasmus Fogh
2 years ago

It was, indubitably, the government that took the decisions. I cannot speak to Boris Johnson’s decision processes. but what the government should do is to evaluate the available evidence, balance the consequences of different choices, decide, and take responsibility for the result. If the Johnson government chose to let itself be stampeded into what they believed was a wrong decision by excessive headlines, that is their problem. The solution is to get a better government, not to pressure the media (let alone the epidemiologists) to avoid publishing data that might put the government under pressure.

kathleen carr
kathleen carr
2 years ago

Also the government didn’t then decide its course and then advise the public-it ordered the public. Prof Ferguson said he wondered if it were possible to compel an entire nation to adhere to certain rules & apparently was delighted to find it was. Roll on totalitarianism-its for your own good, the experts have decided.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
2 years ago
Reply to  Russ Littler

Perhaps Nuremberg would be better.
Does the Gymnasium still stand does anyone know?

Eva Rostova
Eva Rostova
2 years ago
Reply to  Russ Littler

Please read Ferguson/Imperial’s March 2020 report here and explain specifically what you think he got wrong:

https://www.imperial.ac.uk/media/imperial-college/medicine/sph/ide/gida-fellowships/Imperial-College-COVID19-NPI-modelling-16-03-2020.pdf

Jane In Toronto
Jane In Toronto
2 years ago
Reply to  Eva Rostova

I believe they say or imply no one will have immunity. Totally wrong. Many, especially children, flick off Covid with non-specific immunity and still don’t make specific antibodies. For that reason, many professors say the assumption that spread would be exponential was totally wrong.
The paper assumed symptomatic people would be twice as contagious as asymptomatic. Turns out asymptomatic transmission is inconsequential, i.e., far less than half as powerful as from symptomatic people.

Dan Woodall
Dan Woodall
2 years ago
Reply to  Eva Rostova

Well, for starters… “In total, in an unmitigated epidemic, we would predict approximately 510,000 deaths in GB and 2.2 million in the US, not accounting for the potential negative effects of health systems being overwhelmed on mortality.” 

JulieT Boddington
JulieT Boddington
2 years ago
Reply to  Russ Littler

Unfortunately, this will never happen. Tony Blair is still ‘trotted out’ to give his opinion on many occasions even though the Chilcot report recognised that he was responsible for taking us into an agressive war, murder and conspiracy to murder.

Jane In Toronto
Jane In Toronto
2 years ago
Reply to  Rasmus Fogh

The huge flaw in the Imperial College paper was the failure to extend the IFRs out to see the result ―that 70%-80% of his projected deaths were going to be those over 70. This proved to be the case. Immediately one knows this, one also knows that there will be huge double counting. In other words, though his projected deaths were approximately equal to the ‘normal’, i.e., sans Covid rate, that did NOT mean Covid was going to cause a doubling of the usual rate, nothing even close. Remember, all the people who died of anything were pretty much labeled Covid if they tested +ve.

Russ Littler
Russ Littler
2 years ago
Reply to  kathleen carr

…and during the “scamdemic” his dalliance with a colleague’s wife meant that his idea of “social distancing” was apparently about 4 inches.

Last edited 2 years ago by Russ Littler
Brett McSweeney
Brett McSweeney
2 years ago
Reply to  Russ Littler

That would be *negative* four inches.

Kathy Prendergast
Kathy Prendergast
2 years ago
Reply to  Russ Littler

Four inches apart? Were they like a couple of Catholic high school teens at their first mixed dance, under the watchful eye of several ruler-wielding nuns? Somehow I think not.

Kathy Prendergast
Kathy Prendergast
2 years ago
Reply to  Russ Littler

Rules for thee but not for me.
It was never about safety for these people; it was about power.
When you give governments more power, its like giving a toddler a toy that doesnt belong to him. Don`t expect to get either back without a huge fight.

Eva Rostova
Eva Rostova
2 years ago
Reply to  kathleen carr

Please read the Imperial/Ferguson report from March 2020 and explain to us what you think he got wrong:

https://www.imperial.ac.uk/media/imperial-college/medicine/sph/ide/gida-fellowships/Imperial-College-COVID19-NPI-modelling-16-03-2020.pdf

Eva Rostova
Eva Rostova
2 years ago
Reply to  Eva Rostova

Lots of down votes but not a single person engaging with the substance of my comment. Sigh.

Terence Riordan
Terence Riordan
2 years ago
Reply to  kathleen carr

Luckily he caused more cows to be killed than people.

kathleen carr
kathleen carr
2 years ago

The trouble with that is it was a pleasing result for Blair who could punish the tory voters , the next ‘prediction’ was also finincially beneficial to a key labour supporter through the vaccine. I wouldn’t imagine many on the SAGE panel vote tory-so why does a 80-seat majority party accept their advice?

Rasmus Fogh
Rasmus Fogh
2 years ago
Reply to  kathleen carr

Because they know what they are talking about?

kathleen carr
kathleen carr
2 years ago
Reply to  Rasmus Fogh

If the virus is so new etc how can they know what they are talking about? It is pure speculation and the country whose figures they were basing their advice on cannot really be trusted.

Elaine Giedrys-Leeper
Elaine Giedrys-Leeper
2 years ago
Reply to  kathleen carr

If you bother to look at the minutes from the Sage meetings (all available and free to view on line) you will see exactly what they based their decisions on – the references of the papers they used to assist them in their deliberations are all listed, you can read them for yourself.

Kathy Prendergast
Kathy Prendergast
2 years ago
Reply to  kathleen carr

Yes, Professor Ferguson who was obviously not frightened enough of this new virus to refrain from breaking the lockdown rules that resulted from his OWN RECOMMENDATIONS going out to hook up with his married mistress.

kathleen carr
kathleen carr
2 years ago

And I believe both households ( which contained children) were meant to be sheltering because they had the virus. Obviously she had something of vital importance to communicate which couldn’t safely be transmitted by phone!

Kathy Prendergast
Kathy Prendergast
2 years ago
Reply to  kathleen carr

Its just like the Governor of California going out to eat at a fancy restaurant with a bunch of his cronies, unmasked and indoors, during lockdown when ordinary Californians were allowed to do neither. Or Pelosi getting a salon to open specially for her so she could get a haircut (also unmasked.) These elites really think theyre a law unto themselves. Rules are or the lowly serfs to follow. And they make the rules because they enjoy the power.

kathleen carr
kathleen carr
2 years ago

Rich people obviously have better immune systems than us ordinary folk & so can be ‘brave’ and take these risks.They are just being kind and considerate to us really in denying us these things.

Neil Mcalester
Neil Mcalester
2 years ago
Reply to  Rasmus Fogh

Did you miss the part where it was explained that the average age of death is greater than average life expectancy?

Rasmus Fogh
Rasmus Fogh
2 years ago
Reply to  Neil Mcalester

???

Last Jacobin
Last Jacobin
2 years ago
Reply to  Neil Mcalester

Average life expectancy at birth is different from life expectancy if Covid did not intervene. The relevant figure would be the number of years of life lost to Covid. For someone of 81 this is on average ten years. For someone of 50 it’s 37 years and for someone of 60 it’s 27 years. Many people in their 50’s and 60’s have lost decades of life to Covid. And the high average age of death rate in wave 1 was skewed by Care Home deaths.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
2 years ago
Reply to  Last Jacobin

Surely ‘Care Home’ is just a euphemism for ‘Departure Lounge’?

Eva Rostova
Eva Rostova
2 years ago
Reply to  Last Jacobin

Precisely. Many UnHerd commentators apparently refuse to comprehend that Years of Life Lost is the relevant statistic here.

kathleen carr
kathleen carr
2 years ago
Reply to  Eva Rostova

Some people died in hospital from the virus who were admitted for something else. Old people with the virus were moved to nursing homes where they ‘removed’ some of the inhabitants. Many people have been making sure they don’t go near hospitals as they are afraid of them.

Eva Rostova
Eva Rostova
2 years ago
Reply to  kathleen carr

Yes, during peak waves of Covid infection, hospitals become full of Covid patients, and due to the infectiousness of the disease and limited staff it is very difficult to prevent the spread to other non-Covid patients.
The UK is very fortunate its hospitals were not forced to close their doors to new patients, as we are seeing today in India.

Last edited 2 years ago by Eva Rostova
Kathy Prendergast
Kathy Prendergast
2 years ago
Reply to  Eva Rostova

Hospitals became “full of Covid patients” during the first wave…really?
Then how did all those hospital staff find the time to make endless silly TikTok dance videos, scold anti-lockdown protesters, then (about a week later) stand outside and cheer on BLM protestors who were doing exactly the same thing?
And if any hospitals really were “full of Covid patients” at that time, it was likely as much due to the media scaremongering as anything else. Most of them would have recovered just as quickly (if not more so) if they’d just stayed home in their own beds.

kathleen carr
kathleen carr
2 years ago

Exactly-when I did nurse training if you had nothing to do , you cleaned equipment , sorted out the store-room and talked to patients with no relatives-no dancing was involved. Also Eva seemed to have missed the bit where I said patients without covid ie Major Tom came into hospital where they caught it. Bit rich expecting people to be grateful for a system that ‘makes’ you ill.

Eva Rostova
Eva Rostova
2 years ago
Reply to  kathleen carr

I’m sorry Kathleen, but logically what do you expect during a pandemic where the hospitals are full of Covid patients?
Is your solution not to admit Covid patients? (Unfortunately, this is effectively happening today in India, because several of their hospitals have been overwhelmed and have run out of oxygen.)
Admissions to ICUs, which only ever admit very unwell patients, reached unprecedented levels in the UK in winter 2020-21, 3x+ greater than the worse flu season in the past 40 odd years: https://www.ft.com/video/0cd6f9f9-664e-40f9-bad4-dde59d7c746c

Last edited 2 years ago by Eva Rostova
Eva Rostova
Eva Rostova
2 years ago

Your are spreading misinformation, Kathy. The data do not support your opinions.
A person is only ever admitted to ICU if they are very unwell, and it is a fact that there were 3x+ more ICU patients over Christmas than during the worst winter flu season of the past 40 years (and that’s with substantial social distancing measures that were in place in the UK to slow transmission; contrast to places like India and Brazil). That is huge.
These are facts. Learn more for yourself here:
https://www.ft.com/video/0cd6f9f9-664e-40f9-bad4-dde59d7c746c

Last edited 2 years ago by Eva Rostova
Kathy Prendergast
Kathy Prendergast
2 years ago
Reply to  Eva Rostova

Did I just imagine I saw all those stupid videos…

Eva Rostova
Eva Rostova
2 years ago

Logically, what has a tiktok video got to do with the quantitative question of whether ICUs were at record capacity? Is your definition of healthcare overcapacity the point at which healthcare staff are physically incapacitated and incapable of using a social media platform? You are being completely irrational.

Kathy Prendergast
Kathy Prendergast
2 years ago
Reply to  Eva Rostova

I expect health care workers to be doing the jobs they are paid to do during their working hours, not using social media. For anything, much less making stupid dance videos. If they have time to do this, obviously the hospitals were about as far from being “overwhelmed” as any hospitals could be.
How is being extremely busy at your job, to the point of having no time to use social media, “physically incapacitated?” I’ve known quite a lot of doctors and nurses; back in the day, that was just called a normal day’s work. Last time I checked, practicing medicine and nursing was hard. Some days are extremely hard. People don’t choose to go into these fields (or at least I assumed) because they want an easy job. They know that sometimes it’s going to be like hell on earth, and they’re going to be expected to still do their absolute best and not fall apart because that’s what they signed on for.
And no, I don’t consider them “heroes” just for doing the jobs they are paid very adequately to do. If they were volunteers they’d be heroes.
If they do their jobs as they’re expected to do, they have my respect, but that is all.

Elaine Giedrys-Leeper
Elaine Giedrys-Leeper
2 years ago

The baseline capacity nationally in the UK at the start of the first wave could have accomodated 327 extra patients in critical care (CC) beds and 97962 in General and Acute (G&A) beds. These numbers are far below the observed peak of Covid patient numbers of 3100 and 15700 in CC and G&A respectively that ocurred on April 12.

The largest restriction on CC resources were CC nurses with a spare capacity allowing for only an extra 642 patients, nationally.

The NHS adapted in March by converting G&A beds to CC beds, calling in retired staff + medical students to help (mainly on the G&A side), cancelling elective work and utilising Covid free private hospitals for non Covid emergencies, retraining theatre technicians as CC nurses + a bunch of other measures.

Hospitals at this time had to be physically reconfigured to separate proven Covid patients from those awaiting Covid test results and those who were known to be Covid free. This partly involved increasing the distance between beds to improve cross infection control (basic Florence Nightingale stuff) so total G&A bed numbers were reduced by about 20,000 with all these measures while the CC bed capacity increased from 4,100 to about 14,000 (not all fully staffed).

For the first wave new guidelines were issued allowing one CC nurse to look after 6 patients, with lesser minion assistance – patently dangerous given the usual 1 : 1 ratio. This guideline was adjusted again for the winter waves to read 1 : 3. Both in April 2020 and January 2021 CC units just about managed to squeak through with this nurse / patient staffing ratio – by 24 January 2021, 148% of beds were occupied relative to the number of available beds on the same day in January 2020 – almost 1.5 times the capacity of the same time last year (those figures from the Nuffield Trust).

The MSM knows bu**er all about how hospitals are managed and how they changed (continuously) during the last 18 months. The limiter, in truth was never bed numbers but enough suitably trained staff.

This is what happens when you run a lean and mean health care system.
For a very good account of the contortions the NHS had to go through see :  Adapting hospital capacity to meet changing demands during the COVID-19 pandemic McCabe BMC Medicine October 2020

Last edited 2 years ago by Elaine Giedrys-Leeper
Jonathan Smith
Jonathan Smith
2 years ago
Reply to  Eva Rostova

The big General Hospital I was in during the ‘exponential spread’ phase in 2020 was not full of Covid patients. It was not full of anybody. On a ward of 4 six bed bays I was the only patient for three days of my stay. There were two of us on the other two days in separate bays. At one point I had a walk around the deserted corridors, waiting areas and different units. Nobody. Felt like an episode of Dr Who. Thought Daleks might emerge from around the corner.

Elaine Giedrys-Leeper
Elaine Giedrys-Leeper
2 years ago
Reply to  Jonathan Smith

If you didn’t have Covid then you would have been in the portion of the hospital that they were trying to keep Covid free.
Depending on what sort of hospital you were in maybe a lot of the staff had been seconded to look after Covid patients in a different part of the hospital another hospital ?

Kathy Prendergast
Kathy Prendergast
2 years ago

It is almost funny, how desperately you are trying to spin it.
He was in an entire hosptial WING that was practically empty.

Eva Rostova
Eva Rostova
2 years ago
Reply to  Jonathan Smith

Nice anecdote. Here’s some empirical evidence from an authoritative source:
https://www.ft.com/video/0cd6f9f9-664e-40f9-bad4-dde59d7c746c

kathleen carr
kathleen carr
2 years ago
Reply to  Jonathan Smith

Theres been quite a lot of anecdotal evidence which agrees with you-other nursing staff , visiters , patients and people who live near hospitals. All of these people have been told they are wrong or even evil ‘don’t you know theres a pandemic’ and some have even lost their jobs. Odd because you usually don’t want to panic people-deadly strain of strawberry yogurt-don’t all rush to A & E.!

Kathy Prendergast
Kathy Prendergast
2 years ago
Reply to  Eva Rostova

If a 50-to-55-year-old who has a serious comorbidity dies “with Covid” (and the overwhelming majority of so-called “Covid deaths” in this age group have been in this category, i.e. people who already have very serious health issues such as morbid obesity, cancer, emphysema, MS, diabetes, heart disease, etc.) how does it make sense to conclude that they lost at least three decades of their life, when their health was very poor to begin with? Was such a person really expected to live to 80-85, if it weren’t for the dread virus?
I don’t mean to sound callous, as every premature death is tragic. But it makes no sense to me.

Eva Rostova
Eva Rostova
2 years ago

You are incorrect that comorbidities materially reduce the substantial years of life lost to Covid.

See, eg, https://www.inet.ox.ac.uk/files/17.10-29-Jun-20-Aron-Muellbauer-Giattino-Ritchie-Excess-Mortality-article.pdf

“While it is true that three-quarters of the excess deaths were of people aged 75 and above, and that the majority had one or more pre-existing medical conditions (co-morbidities), in practice, life expectancy is quite high. For example, at the age of 80, life expectancy is 9 years for males and 10 years for females. Co-morbidities add little to this, in his opinion, since four-fifths of this cohort has two or more co-morbidities, and 90 percent have one or more (there is of course variation around the average).”

Kathy Prendergast
Kathy Prendergast
2 years ago
Reply to  Last Jacobin

The vast majority of people in their 50s and 60s who have died “with Covid” have had at least one comorbidity. This is still very much a disease of the elderly and/or immuno-compromised and/or medically frail. And even among the most vulnerable, it’s fatal in only about 6 percent of all cases.
I realize that premature deaths are always tragic. But the impact of this virus on the general population – and particularly the young and healthy population – is statisically insignificant. Those who catch it either don’t get sick at all or get a mild illness they quickly recover from. And “asymptomatic” spread is a crock. We’ve been subjected to nothing but fear porn for the past year. Now nearly all of the most vulnerable are vaccinated, and we’re still being told it’ll be months, possibly a year or more, before our lives get back to normal, if they ever do. We are sick of this. No “pandemic” has ever lasted this long.

Last edited 2 years ago by Kathy Prendergast
Eva Rostova
Eva Rostova
2 years ago

“No ‘pandemic’ has ever lasted this long?”.
I suggest you brush up on your history before making completely incorrect statements like that.
For example, the Spanish Flu continued from 1918 to around 1921.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/health/2020-09-08/covid-coronavirus-how-do-pandemics-end-and-how-will-this-one-end/12596954
All right-minded people want this to be over. Pretending that it’s no big deal, however, doesn’t help anyone. Just take a look at the situation with hospitals and oxygen in India today and be grateful we are not in their position.

Last edited 2 years ago by Eva Rostova
Kathy Prendergast
Kathy Prendergast
2 years ago
Reply to  Eva Rostova

The Spanish Flu PANDEMIC was over by early 1919. Obviously there were some more cases of it after that.
And anyway, in no way can that illness be compared to Covid-19. Spanish flu actually struck down young, healthy people, which is what made it such an anomaly.

Eva Rostova
Eva Rostova
2 years ago

You are yet again spreading misinformation, Kathy. The Spanish flu pandemic is generally considered to have lasted around two years, with material outbreaks lasting until 1921 as I said. See, e.g., https://www.history.com/news/spanish-flu-second-wave-resurgence. By comparison, the SARS-Cov-2 virus achieved pandemic-level spread around Feb/March 2020, barely a year ago.
In any event, what is the relevance of your point that Spanish flu killed more people and impacted younger demographics? It does not change the fact that Covid-19 evidently poses a systemic threat to healthcare systems, as we have seen around the world over the past year, and are seeing most acutely today in India.

Last edited 2 years ago by Eva Rostova
Kathy Prendergast
Kathy Prendergast
2 years ago
Reply to  Eva Rostova

You are not making sense. If this disease is not a threat the the mjaority of the population (and it isn’t), why, then, is it seen as a “threat to healthcare systems”?
People like you talk like the wellbeing of “healthcare systems” is more important that the wellbeing of people. Healthcare systems are MEANT to take care of people, not to be “protected” from overt pressure to the point of hospitals being kept virtually empty. And yes, sometimes enormous strains are placed on these systems, eg. when catastrophic accidents or natural disasters occur. They are expected (by us, the taxpayers, who fund it) to deal with it, to the best of their ability.
Most people who get Covid-19 have no need to stay in hospital. Most don’t even need to see a doctor and recover in a few days even if they do nothing other than stay in bed.
Why do you think the death rates from Covid-19 are so much lower in Africa? Maybe because most people with it are treated on an outpatient basis, with known effective drug therapies (saw an interview the other day with a doctor in Zimbabwe, who routinely treats it with Ivermectin with much success), keeping the virus from spreading through hospitals and infecting the most vulnerable. In Africa, they can’t afford the luxury of fretting about hospitals being “overwhelmed”, when many communities have no hospitals to begin with, just outpatient clinics.
I also suspect, however, that the much lower rate of obesity and lower median age in Africa has something to do with it.

Elaine Giedrys-Leeper
Elaine Giedrys-Leeper
2 years ago

This has NEVER been all about death. In the UK it has been about the disease burden on the NHS that should really be concentrating on other stuff.
The ones who filled the hospitals. Best source of information for this are the ICNARC reports regularly updated :
“ICNARC report on COVID-19 in critical care: England, Wales and Northern Ireland 5 February 2021
90.3% admitted to these critical care beds did NOT have serious comorbidites” – another UnHinged fallacy out the window.

Presymptomatics = Asymptomatics and there is now plenty of evidence that transmission can occur 1 -2 days before symptoms appear. See “Analysis of SARS-CoV-2 Transmission in Different Settings, Brunei Chaw, November 2020” for one of the better studies looking at this.

Kathy Prendergast
Kathy Prendergast
2 years ago

It sounds like you are admitting that at least 90 percent of those who were hospitalized with Covid never needed to be there.
Most people who got – and get – Covid 19 would have fully recovered from it without any medical intervention whatsoever, because for people who are not elderly and have no co-morbidities, it is no more dangerous than the flu.
I do not know what the standard is in the UK, but in Canada we do not routinely hospitalize non-vulnerable patients with the flu, even if they are running fevers; we tell them to go home, stay in bed, keep warm, and drink plenty of liquids.Hospitalizing them is highly unlikely to help them recover faster and will just expose truly vulnerable people to the risk of catching what they have.
So a flu-like illness that most people recover from on their own should not threaten to overwhelm a competent health care system.

kathleen carr
kathleen carr
2 years ago

I don’t know how you managed the end of life covid cases but some of the stories have been truly shocking-parents not allowed to say goodbye to their dying child, grown men weeping for their families and given no comfort-and thats before we even get started on the nursing homes. Have those in the caring professions lost their minds?

kathleen carr
kathleen carr
2 years ago

The media was also so desperate to prove anyone could ‘get it & die of it’ that it published any cases of youngsters ( most of whom sadly already had problems like cancer) and even showed pics people who worked in NHS and were minority & had died and somehow linked this together with BLM protests. The whole media thing has been a frenzy-something like Huxley’s book The Devils of Loudon.

Kathy Prendergast
Kathy Prendergast
2 years ago
Reply to  kathleen carr

I never knew the term “psy-op” before this happened, and thought all conspiracy theorists were crackpots.
Now I increasingly feel like the Donald Sutherland character in Invasion of the Body Snatchers, right up to the end when they finally get to him too.

Dougie Undersub
Dougie Undersub
2 years ago
Reply to  Neil Mcalester

The average life expectancy of someone who has reached 82 is another 8-9 years. So no, Covid isn’t just killing people who were about to fall off the perch anyway.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
2 years ago

So they have used up 90% of their fuel? Isn’t that enough or is greed the paramount virtue ?

Whatever happened to “moderation in all things “ as the Ancient Hellenes maintained?

Paul N
Paul N
2 years ago

I see it’s easy to be blasé about other people losing 8 or 9 years of life.

Kathy Prendergast
Kathy Prendergast
2 years ago

So the average life expectancy in Britain is now 90 or 91? That’s news to me.

Rasmus Fogh
Rasmus Fogh
2 years ago

When you calculate the average length of life, that includes people who die just after birth, while still in school, in late middle age, etc. All these live lives that are shorter than the average. To balance that out, other people have to live longer than the average. Those who make it till 82 have already evaded all those traps, and can expect to live well beyond the average length of life.

You do not work with numbers in your day job, do you?

Kathy Prendergast
Kathy Prendergast
2 years ago
Reply to  Rasmus Fogh

A huge number of those who had made it to 82 had done so because their life spans had been artificially extended by modern medicine, including flu vaccines. This is not saying they should not have been around, obviously it is great their lives were extended, just that they most likely would not have been, without these things. Viruses are opportunitistic and the novel Covid virus took advantage of this large population of people with weak immunity. And the government and healthcare systems did the exact opposite of what they should have done to protect this population. Lockdowns, forced masking, and imprisoning the healthy did NOTHING to protect these people.

kathleen carr
kathleen carr
2 years ago

Exactly-both my parents came from large families of whom only 2 ( both women) made it to 90 and they were in poor health for years. The rest died in their seventies or younger. Most people live to 80ish if they are lucky but some groups ie Ashkenazi Jewish people live longer than usual which mean the overall figures are unbalanced-just as if one person earned £10,000 & another 1 million doesn’t mean the average wage is 1/2 million.

kathleen carr
kathleen carr
2 years ago

No it isn’t the average age .As I commented below but its ‘waiting’ if a person earns £10,000 and another 1 million this doesn’t make the average wage 1/2 million.Statistics are a funny old thing.

Elaine Giedrys-Leeper
Elaine Giedrys-Leeper
2 years ago
Reply to  Neil Mcalester

Wrong statistic to quote as the Actuaries (you know, those people who deal with death and destruction every day) made very clear way back in May / June they calculated that during this pandemic 80 – 89 year olds in the UK with 2 long term conditions could expect to live for another 5 years at least – provided they didn’t get Covid. They are the toughies.
The average age of death argument is a red herring – this is the expected age of death AT BIRTH.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
2 years ago

So let’s assume most of the UK C-19 casualties so far are predominantly the old, plus a few fat & black. Say 100K as a round figure

That leaves about 3.5 million ‘toughies’ (80+), so it is going to take sometime for C-19 to cull them all, unless it mutates into something like the Black Death or the Justinian Plague.

More chance of decent, full scale Nuclear War with China I would have thought.

Elaine Giedrys-Leeper
Elaine Giedrys-Leeper
2 years ago

Won’t cull any of them if they have all been vaccinated.
No signs of significant vaccine escape so far.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
2 years ago

Then we have a problem as the the late HRH Prince Philip said so eloquently.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
2 years ago
Reply to  Neil Mcalester

82.4 versus 81.1.
Statistically if you old, fat or black, you need to take care.

For the rest it should be ‘Dives in Omnia’,*
‘Riches in Everything’

(*Thank you Porterhouse).

JulieT Boddington
JulieT Boddington
2 years ago

Why didn’t the government/press/anyone explain why Vitamin D is vital and that those with darker skins need to supplement their diets?

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
2 years ago

Cost probably, we don’t want the NHS to be inundated with the demos clamouring for Vitamin D do we ?

The same is also true of why we don’t routinely give an ECG to the over 50’s, twice year, as is required by the Civil Aviation Authority for Commercial pilots.

Russ Littler
Russ Littler
2 years ago
Reply to  Rasmus Fogh

Mortality rate 0.98% for all those who contract it. Average age of death 82.2 years old. Exactly the same as any seasonal flu. Show me the dangerous disease?

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
2 years ago
Reply to  Russ Littler

Sounds like more chance of dying from a Verruca.

Elaine Giedrys-Leeper
Elaine Giedrys-Leeper
2 years ago
Reply to  Russ Littler

This has NEVER been all about the death stats. In the UK the real problem was how a creaking NHS was going to cope with the disease burden on top of all the other stuff it is supposed to be doing.
From a VA study in the US :
“Notably, compared with patients with influenza, patients with COVID-19 had 2 times the risk for pneumonia, 1.7 times the risk for respiratory failure, 19 times the risk for ARDS, and 3.5 times the risk for pneumothorax, underscoring the severity of COVID-19 respiratory illness relative to that of influenza.”
and
“The percentage of COVID-19 patients admitted to an ICU (36.5%) was more than twice that of influenza patients (17.6%); the percentage of COVID-19 patients who died while hospitalized (21.0%) was more than five times that of influenza patients (3.8%); and the duration of hospitalization was almost three times longer for COVID-19 patients (median 8.6 days; IQR = 3.9–18.6 days) than that for influenza patients (3.0 days; 1.8–6.5 days) (p<0.001 for all).”
And as anyone who has been in an ICU – this is no picnic for anyone.

Last edited 2 years ago by Elaine Giedrys-Leeper
Galeti Tavas
Galeti Tavas
2 years ago

I bought a 540 fitting medical oxygen regulator for $20 from E-bay, 2 cannula from Walmart at 10$ each, put my 80l O2 Welding Cylinder in the bedroom as soon as they showed the (I think fake) videos of Chinese collapsing in the streets in Jan 2020. (a 540 valve is what welding O2 tanks use)
By the way a full O2 cylinder, 80 L, is about $320 at my local welding supply, (in case you want home Oxygen for late night welding), with regulator and cannula under $400, and Is something I would think prudent to keep, it is not very expensive to swap every few years as the bottle is the most expensive part and the old bottle is credited against the new bottle – choose a cylinder with the most years left on its certificating stamp.
But then I have always been self reliant, like ‘Fish Antibiotics’ which I DO NOT RECOMEND (fish antibiotics are the same as human and vet ones, but require no prescription, but if you are remote extended times can be taken along in case your fish get sick) Clindamycin is for staff infections and things…. https://fishmoxfishflex.com/collections/clindamycin-fish-cin-fish-antibiotic/products/fish-aid-clindamycin-150-mg-100-count-fish-cin-equivalent.

Just like I always build my own house, fix my own vehicles, and so on, I like to take care of things myself.

Elaine Giedrys-Leeper
Elaine Giedrys-Leeper
2 years ago
Reply to  Galeti Tavas

Covid 19 is a multi-organ, endothelial thrombotic disease.
Unless you have the capability of measuring D-dimer, renal function, cardiac function, a smorgasboard of cytokines, coagulation in all it’s various flavours and a raft of other parameters you will be dead meat if you get really sick.
As for oxygen, what sort of oxygen support you would need (nasal canula, simple face mask, reservoir mask, nasal high flow O2 – up to 70L/minute, CPAP, venturi mask, variable positive airway pressure) would depend in part on your arterial blood gases – this involves sticking a needle into an artery to get the sample, not a vein. See the BMJ Respiratory failure and non-invasive respiratory support during the covid-19 pandemic: an update for re-deployed hospital doctors and primary care physiciansfor an easy to follow guide with pretty pictures.
Some patients can theoretically be managed at home with supplementary oxygen of one sort or another. Others can’t and that’s where the disease burden for hospitals comes from.
Antibiotics are absolutely contra indicated unless there is a proven secondary bacterial pneumonia – only diagnosable with repeated positive blood / sputum culture and for that you need a lab that can culture both anaerobic and anaerobic bacteria.
Good luck with all that.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
2 years ago

Prednisolone in very large quantities proved efficacious in my case.
(Entire self-administered).

Elaine Giedrys-Leeper
Elaine Giedrys-Leeper
2 years ago

Yep, steroids appear to be useful if you give them at the right time – hugely unhelpful if you take them at the wrong time.
You were in luck !

Kathy Prendergast
Kathy Prendergast
2 years ago

What you just described is a worst-case-scenario case of Covid-19, i.e., what happens in the tiny minority of cases in which it kills or causes permanent damage because the patient was already highly compromised.
Your fear porn has passed its sell-by date.

Paul N
Paul N
2 years ago

Of the two of you, one seems to know what she’s talking about – and the other seems to be repeating conspiracy theories from the internet. You may not know which is which, but most people reading this will.

Elaine Giedrys-Leeper
Elaine Giedrys-Leeper
2 years ago

Nope.
The BMJ article and crib sheet covers all the bases from those who can be and have been managed just in a home setting up to those you are desperately trying to keep off a ventilator.
The thromboses problem can occur in anyone. We know that Sars Cov 2 can latch on to almost any part of the body because of the ubiquity of ACE2 and TMPRSS receptors and from clinical observation – everything from brain fog to gut ache to muscle pains to myocarditis.

Kathy Prendergast
Kathy Prendergast
2 years ago

Nasty complications CAN result from many different viruses. As any medical professional would know. Read up on what chicken pox could do to an adult unfortunate to catch it, pre-vaccine.
All I am interested in is how frequently they do.
The fact is, no matter how you spin is, the virus causing Covid-19 causes neither death nor long-term health issues in the vast majority of people who get it.
Its level of danger simply does not justify the extreme and destructive measures taken in the name of controlling it.
An apt metaphor is burning down a house to get rid of rats.

Johnny Sutherland
Johnny Sutherland
2 years ago

Do you have any figures showing how many admitted to hospital vs how many needing ICU?

Elaine Giedrys-Leeper
Elaine Giedrys-Leeper
2 years ago

Our World in Data have some nice linear and log graphs – you can select for country and the statistic you want to look at – they have a list of about 160 to choose from !
However, from Gov.uk looking at the
12 April 2020 peak – 21,687 Covid patients in hospital 3,036 in ICU
19 January 2021 peak – 38,838 Covid patients in hospital 3,947 in ICU
Critical care beds, however include more than just the really very ill in ICU.
Someone on Twitter abstracted the total critical care numbers Jan – Nov 2020 and did a lovely histogram of all this but I have lost the link. Looking at the image I copied:
April : aprox 4200 Covid + 800 non elective and non Covid + 100 elective and non Covid
Sept : aprox 200 Covid + 2000 non elective and non Covid + 300 elective and non Covid.
so … a moveable feast.

Last edited 2 years ago by Elaine Giedrys-Leeper
Galeti Tavas
Galeti Tavas
2 years ago
Reply to  kathleen carr

JUST WAIT!!!! Crypto is coming from all the central banks, and soon all will have a digital wallet on their phone using National digital Fiat money through the central banks, and your entire life will be an open book!

This is why Bitcoin and eythurium have trillion $ caps – people want their digital wallets not just to have the crypto Renmibi (Chinese) potentially costing the USA the Reserve currency (And that is very bad) but IMF Crypto SDR, Fed $ crypto, ECB Crypto, and so on, but it may also have Bitcoin/Ether to conduct annononmyious buying. Just imagine, everyone having a digital wallet with half a dozen crypto’s on it! The Banking industry will be toast, as will paypall, credit cards, the world upside down – in a decade. The world economy may shatter, and lockdown moved it forward decades, so will happen suddenly rather than gradually. May be really bad. Go to your local coin shop and buy some silver bars with your stimulus money.

idazbiro
idazbiro
2 years ago
Reply to  Galeti Tavas

Have you lost your marbles or have you just had lobotomia? Both lobes?

Galeti Tavas
Galeti Tavas
2 years ago
Reply to  idazbiro

Idazbiro – I guess you are the sort of ignorant person with nothing to say so comes here to say it – I was responding to the bright poster Kathleen Car’s post
“Theres the potential for everything to cause some sort of harm-the reason it is not usually exaggerated by the media or the medical profession is economic. It would therefore seem that there is an enormous commercial value to some (helped by the medical and scientific community ) to panic people about this particular virus. An obvious change has been the virtual end of cash as a means of exchange and the cards that we use can be easily tracked.People have also had their lives controlled and limited in ways unseen outside wartime, using a medical emergency as the reason.”

Try to keep up, this whole shutting of the world is for control over money – look up blockchain, check out the Chinese digital currency, check out Bit-Coin, check out what is Banking and how it works, your ignorance is not reason informed people should not talk.

Andrew Fisher
Andrew Fisher
2 years ago
Reply to  kathleen carr

This is a pure conspiracy theory. SAGE etc trying to abolish cash?

There is a pandemic, every government in the world has taken measures against it, technology for the first time enabled us to replace face to face interactions, however imperfectly. That’s it.

Some big businesses have done very well, far more, who also by the way vigorously lobby governments, and, who knows even donate funds to the Conservative Party!) extremely badly e.g.the huge hospitality industry.

Galeti Tavas
Galeti Tavas
2 years ago
Reply to  Andrew Fisher

The Pandemic response is purely to for ever ‘reset’ the Globe, it has very little to do with the virus. Gates and Fauci have their finger prints all over the Wuhan Lab (a quick google will show) The virus was the ‘Excuse’ for the response, the response means utterly changing the whole world, to the detriment of all free people, and destruction of the Middle class, who are the only engine for democracy.

Kathy Prendergast
Kathy Prendergast
2 years ago
Reply to  Galeti Tavas

I suspect they hadn’t expected the vaccines to be rolled out so quickly, and that the original plan was to keep us in successive waves of “outbreaks” and lockdowns for years until all the fight had been beaten out of us.
The vaccines themselves present all kinds of other issues, not least being the way they are now aggressively promoted for people who don’t need them in the least (i.e. the young and healthy and people who have had and recovered from Covid) but I really have doubts they were part of the original plan, at least not this soon. Maybe they overestimated how “novel” this virus actually was. From what I can understand, it’s not a hell of a lot different from the one that caused the SARS outbreak in 2003. And coronoviruses themselves are nothing new.

Kathy Prendergast
Kathy Prendergast
2 years ago
Reply to  kathleen carr

Personally I hate small businesses that don’t accept cash, and avoid them. I’ve heard it argued that it’s not fair to expect employees in the service industry to handle cash all day because of Covid, but I say bollocks. How many cases have actually been traced to someone handling a dirty banknote or coin? It’s ridiculous. They can spray their hands with sanitiser after every transaction, if it makes them feel better.

Dougie Undersub
Dougie Undersub
2 years ago
Reply to  John Mcalester

Some very restrictive measures were taken to keep pedestrians safe in the early days of motorised transport. Have you forgotten the 4mph speed limit and the man with the red flag who had to proceed every vehicle?
Over time, we learnt how to manage the risk with a mixture of public awareness, infrastructure and regulation. Something similar is happening with Covid in a very short timescale.

Johnny Sutherland
Johnny Sutherland
2 years ago

Whilst I’m old I’m not old enough to personally remember it. I wonder how much of the change was simply because cars could go faster and rules were ignored. Is there a book about it?

Andrew Fisher
Andrew Fisher
2 years ago
Reply to  John Mcalester

Your general point about risk is completely valid; we talk too much as if there is such a thing as absolute safry. But there is a difference with infectious diseases. One road accident does not (except in a few cases) lead to another. Or falls off ladders, or drownings. Pandemics however do spread exponentially, without some measures, compulsory or voluntary, to inhibit the spread.

Last edited 2 years ago by Andrew Fisher
Kelly Mitchell
Kelly Mitchell
2 years ago
Reply to  Lee Johnson

What? I couldn’t hear you through your face diaper

andrew harman
andrew harman
2 years ago
Reply to  Lee Johnson

Who is stupid and arrogant?

Terry M
Terry M
2 years ago
Reply to  Lee Johnson

Yes, many were willing to sacrifice liberties for others. But it was all based on a lie, and was imposed, not chosen.

Russ Littler
Russ Littler
2 years ago
Reply to  Terry M

Correct Terry.

Neil Mcalester
Neil Mcalester
2 years ago
Reply to  Lee Johnson

I think that the real joke, as you put it, is that those that have given up their freedoms willingly did so out of fear and they still cannot admit to themselves that that is why they did it.

Last edited 2 years ago by Neil Mcalester
Last Jacobin
Last Jacobin
2 years ago
Reply to  Neil Mcalester

Yes. Fear of doing something to cause death and illness in others. Same reason we don’t normally fire machine guns into crowds of people.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
2 years ago
Reply to  Last Jacobin

.?

Last edited 2 years ago by CHARLES STANHOPE
Chris D
Chris D
2 years ago
Reply to  Neil Mcalester

They never will admit it – how can they? Their conceit of themselves as morally and intellectually superior would fall apart at the seams and they so love to feel superior.

Russ Littler
Russ Littler
2 years ago
Reply to  Lee Johnson

Just stop Lee, you’re comments are embarrassing.

Galeti Tavas
Galeti Tavas
2 years ago
Reply to  Lee Johnson

The real joke is they destroyed the West’s economy, the education of the youth, the freedoms of Man, the health of the public, millions of jobs, pensions, home ownership by lockdown – but you couldn’t even realize that fact!

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
2 years ago
Reply to  Galeti Tavas

Lee is probably a well pampered Public Sector Employee, possibly even in the sainted NHS, and thus complete inured from the tsunami of grief, despair and violence that will soon overwhelm the Western World.

Vae victis!

Eva Rostova
Eva Rostova
2 years ago
Reply to  Galeti Tavas

Got any facts/data to back up your claims, other than your concerns about MMT? Latest US growth figures and stock market don’t support your claim. Fine, you may be right there is trouble down the road. But you undermine your argument with the hysterical claim that “they destroyed the West’s economy”. It is just as possible that Western countries including the US will build back with a stronger social safety net, improving living standards. We shall see. In the meantime, a sense of balance wouldn’t go amiss.

Last edited 2 years ago by Eva Rostova
Johnny Sutherland
Johnny Sutherland
2 years ago
Reply to  Eva Rostova

I don’t agree with Sanford’s scenario but I am expecting some sort of crash within what’s left of my lifetime. Mainly because of the insane stock market valuations of companies who when one of them fails after chomping its way through several billion pound funding rounds has roughly zero assets to pay creditors and all the vapor money evaporates.

Eva Rostova
Eva Rostova
2 years ago

The value of your investment may go down as well as up…
Almost as certainly as the earth will continue to orbit the sun, there will be another crash. Whether we’ll be alive to see it is anyone’s guess!
No need, however, to wish for it in order to prove one’s point that lockdowns or whatever were a bad idea.

JulieT Boddington
JulieT Boddington
2 years ago
Reply to  Lee Johnson

No joke. Those who needed to be protected weren’t.

Galeti Tavas
Galeti Tavas
2 years ago
Reply to  Lee Johnson

I remember being at a backwater Patti Smith concert and she read some (of her?) poems, and the one which stuck in my mind ended with the very memorable: ‘And the stupid Bi* ches didn’t even realize they were being F* ck ed Up The A* s!!!
If ever, a parable for us public in the covid times, I think that one fits.

Kathy Prendergast
Kathy Prendergast
2 years ago
Reply to  Lee Johnson

I don’t believe most people who diligantly mask everywhere, even outdoors and far from others (and force their children to do so as well) really do it “for others”. They don’t really believe that, even if they have no symptoms and feel fine, they could be harbouring some of those dreaded Covid cooties and may pass them on to someone else if they don’t wear their face nappies. They are just irrationally afraid of catching the less than 1 percent fatality rate plague themselves. Framing their obsessive behaviour as altruistic makes it sound better than what it actually is.

Walter Brigham
Walter Brigham
2 years ago
Reply to  Lee Johnson

The initial response to the virus in March of 2020 seemed reasonable given the many unknowns. What was not reasonable was the continuing shutdowns as we learned more about its spread and who was at risk. Now as the vaccine rolls out the continuing insistence by some to mask, keep businesses closed or limited, and other restrictions are out of touch with what science is showing.
But the authors point goes to the fear mongering and shaming that is used to get people to acquiesce to restrictions far beyond their usefulness and to press for other dubious social policies.
It is an abuse of science and the term ‘scientism’ is appropriate.

Chris Wheatley
Chris Wheatley
2 years ago
Reply to  Brian Dorsley

It sort of makes you think about ‘people’ really. But how do you do it without sounding cruel? Nietzsche started this when he said that only about 0.1% of people could think and the rest just followed. But after WW2 nobody quotes Nietzsche.

Galeti Tavas
Galeti Tavas
2 years ago
Reply to  Chris Wheatley

Good – he was a very negative force in the world! His Nihilism was a great tool of both the Marxists AND the Fascists. Once you can utterly disregard Morality you are open to unspeakable evil. “God is Dead’ he said, and so anything goes, and as you know, his influence on the great evil philosophies contributed to hundreds of millions of deaths in Russia, China, Cambodia, WWI and WWII, and still shake the West through Frankfurt School. F – Him and Sartre.

Russ Littler
Russ Littler
2 years ago
Reply to  Chris Wheatley

..why thank you Chris, I must be in that 0.1% because I’ve been trying to get people to see the truth since March last year. What amazes me is the push-back and resistance i get, from those who know absolutely nothing about it. They haven’t done an ounce of research,their knowledge is zero, but they claim I’m the fool. Stockholm syndrome I wonder?

Geoff H
Geoff H
2 years ago
Reply to  Russ Littler

My experience exactly; I have long since given up trying and so just nod and smile and go ‘mmm really, mmm, how awful.’ Stress levels have gone way down, very liberating really.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
2 years ago
Reply to  Chris Wheatley

Nietzsche ended up in a ‘Loony Bin’ didn’t he?

Russ Littler
Russ Littler
2 years ago
Reply to  Brian Dorsley

..and how myopic. If nothing else, this virus pandemic hoax has exposed all those who didn’t pay attention in science and biology.

Galeti Tavas
Galeti Tavas
2 years ago
Reply to  Brian Dorsley

Rambling, every point qualified and circled around, thoughts put out for the listener to make into ideas, sort of like any legal folk taking where CYA is first, so the topic hinted at, examples given, vague trends… I wish these guys would just tell it as it is, 10 minutes of him just giving a lecture on the topic and how it went would be 10X better than this sort of ‘conversation’.

But Here is the answer in a nut shell, one he completely missed, as did Freddy, as it is so close to them they cannot even see it: Smart Phones.

Smart phones have rendered the entire populations into scared bunnies. From childhood everyone tracks and keeps with everyone, People terrified to be out of communication for a minute – phone clutching where it is carried in the hand at all times so a second out of touch is not had to be endured, no one thinks for themselves, every risk monitored, judged, discussed to death, every bad thing warned about, exaggerated, googled, fallowed, and feared, twisted.

Smart phones created a new human, one utterly not self reliant, always seeking consensus, asking friends/family, googling, MSM leading everyone around like pigs with a ring in their noses,telling you why to fear, how to fear, how much to fear, everything you should have fear about, and thus how to run and hide from the real world. Homofearusphonus.

Chris Wheatley
Chris Wheatley
2 years ago
Reply to  Galeti Tavas

I don’t often agree with you but on this one you are absolutely 100% right. It’s as if the life force has been taken away from people and all of their personal thoughts and experiences have gone.

It reminds me of the fake app which somebody was trying to sell. They said that there was a danger of falling over as you were walking along looking at your phone so there was this app which could pinpoint your position exactly and would project an image of the pavement (sidewalk) onto the screen so that you could see what was in front of you.

Geoff H
Geoff H
2 years ago
Reply to  Galeti Tavas

Oh bravo! quite so – not forgetting the all-day brainwash and wipe that is TV and radio with it’s ‘news’ 24x7x365 keeping the panic levels high.

Ethniciodo Rodenydo
Ethniciodo Rodenydo
2 years ago
Reply to  Galeti Tavas

If the environmental lobby was honestly motivated they would be campaigning for the banning of smartphones and social media given that in the next 10 years it is predicted that at electricity use by ICT could exceed 20% of the global total.  

Hardee Hodges
Hardee Hodges
2 years ago
Reply to  Brian Dorsley

Fear is a strong motivator. The constant refrain from the press was the case count, then the death count. By inference many who hardly attend the news fully, believed the cases would all become deaths. And reputable scientists (most with a stake in pandemic research) demonised the Great Barrington Declaration as pushing people into death. Of course the Declaration did no such thing and was the way previous pandemics had been managed. But politicians and scientist joined hand to keep the public in fear. Treating us like children incapable of acting with caution. Climate change is another topic for the science-politics partnership is attempting to create the same fear. But it’s not really working with the public who cares about next week not 2050.

Prashant Kotak
Prashant Kotak
2 years ago

Fantastic essay. Well done UnHerd for giving authors like this a proper voice. This type of writing is why I am so pleased to have discovered UnHerd.

Galeti Tavas
Galeti Tavas
2 years ago
Reply to  Prashant Kotak

I like Unherd, but find so many of the ‘Conversations’ tame in that the experts are way too cautions (likely an academic trait, but fear of SJW too) and do not just say what they need to say, but qualify and lead the topic, and hint, and circle, less they say something which will be used against them.
I would like some more ranters, the sort who would stand on a box at Speakers Corner and shout at the crowd. Get David Icke, Piers Corbyn, get some fun guys. Get that crazy American running for London mayor, I would love some hing quality loons mixed with these tame academics.

Colin Colquhoun
Colin Colquhoun
2 years ago
Reply to  Galeti Tavas

That sounds really, really bad. Let’s not do that.

Galeti Tavas
Galeti Tavas
2 years ago

The problem is the conspiracy loons are the only ones who spot the disasters looming, but no one lets them get on the mainstream. The fact that for every loon who is correct there are several who are just crazy should not prevent us from getting exposure to such thinkers.

David Icke has been proven to be correct that a cabal of Lizards does indeed run the world, and he should be given the chance to tell us more.
Rose, the guy running for Mayor of London, (London Real) and David Icke (who says G5 is the problem and that covid-19 does not exist) were banned from youtube. Unherd needs to take up the ethical story….

Colin Colquhoun
Colin Colquhoun
2 years ago
Reply to  Galeti Tavas

Maybe there’s an ethical story there about free speech. However:
The fact that for every loon who is correct there are several who are just crazy should not prevent us from getting exposure to such thinkers.”
I think quality of thought matters, and I spend time thinking about who to listen to. I don’t necessarily trust a third party to get it right, and if they promoted Icke I’d trust them even less.

Galeti Tavas
Galeti Tavas
2 years ago

I am stopped in my construction work due to the 400%, yes 400% increase in Lumber from a year ago, so sit here way too much. But I really like to hear the fringe, it does stimulate you by having to figure out the problems in their thinking. The Traditional Jewish way of education involves arguing, or strong discussion, as only by defending, or attacking some thought you may, or may not, believe in, do you see all the permutations and logic in why something is more likely true and false. The echo-chamber of ideas teaches little.

Unherd is not really ‘News’ or Journalism, it is discussion, so the wider the arena the better to me.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
2 years ago

An excellent essay, that proves that Bertrand Russell was correct when he said: ”Most people would rather die than think and most do”.

Last edited 2 years ago by CHARLES STANHOPE
Alan Thorpe
Alan Thorpe
2 years ago

Russell also thought that we should welcome Hitler if he invaded the UK.

andrew harman
andrew harman
2 years ago

Bertrand actually.

Chris Wheatley
Chris Wheatley
2 years ago
Reply to  andrew harman

Good to see you’re paying attention.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
2 years ago
Reply to  andrew harman

Yes well spotted, thanks. 0-15
There seems to be a small gremlin lurking in the bowels of my mini I-pad who makes unauthorised remarks, which I fail to notice.
More haste less speed perhaps!

Last edited 2 years ago by CHARLES STANHOPE
Brian Dorsley
Brian Dorsley
2 years ago

I think it’s ‘less haste, more speed’. 😉

Last edited 2 years ago by Brian Dorsley
CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
2 years ago
Reply to  Brian Dorsley

Apologies….a feeble joke!

Fraser Bailey
Fraser Bailey
2 years ago

A magnificent article and I also watched the interview with Freddie on YT last night. Every word, of course, is true. A malignant combination of the politicians, the media, the so-called scientists and various others are leading us towards a horrible, horrible future.
A huge proportion of the population is quite happy with this because they don’t really want or value freedom anyway, and much of the rest of the population is unable to see it. And when 29% of the population are so unintelligent and uninformed as to think that between 6 and 10% of the population has died of Covid, you know that there is no hope and that the power-creatures can do whatever they like.

Prashant Kotak
Prashant Kotak
2 years ago
Reply to  Fraser Bailey

People in this country plain flat do not understand stats, cannot visualise scale, and cannot assess risk, even at the simplest level. This includes our politicians: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19801666.amp

I don’t exactly know where the problem stems from, but I sure as hell can see why our governing class make so many poor quality decisions.

Last edited 2 years ago by Prashant Kotak
Chris Wheatley
Chris Wheatley
2 years ago
Reply to  Prashant Kotak

I agree with you that people do not understand stats but that also includes people who use stats to prove things in papers. If you read ‘False Positive’ by Theodore Dalrymple, the author follows articles in the prestigious New England Journal of Medicine for one year. He picks on a series of influential papers where the authors have misused stats and proven a point which was just wrong. All of this in a journal which uses peer-reviewing heavily.
It is a common fault in UnHerd essays. An author picks a series of stats, produces a graph and proves what he knows the contributors of UnHerd will want to hear. Conveniently, he forgets to mention that there are other variables which count against his ‘proof’.

Prashant Kotak
Prashant Kotak
2 years ago
Reply to  Chris Wheatley

Understanding stats to the point where you make second order mistakes, or even attempt deliberate manipulation of what the numbers tell you, is fine. I’m complaining about the situation where most people look at a bunch of presented numbers with blank incomprehension. As Terry M has alluded, we need this taught in schools, from a young age in a way where kids are naturally comfortable with numbers.

Last edited 2 years ago by Prashant Kotak
Terry M
Terry M
2 years ago
Reply to  Prashant Kotak

When education reform is discussed, this is NEVER included as a suggestion. Instead we get gender and race studies that are false and divisive, but provide politicians with votes and phony moralism.

Dave Weeden
Dave Weeden
2 years ago
Reply to  Prashant Kotak

I’d be ever so grateful if you can suggest a country where people do understand stats, can visualise scale, etc. These things are not intuitive, and Kahneman and Tversky have shown that failure to understand these things is not only universal, but is frequently exhibited by university level teachers and researchers.
https://www.trendfollowing.com/daniel-kahneman/

Prashant Kotak
Prashant Kotak
2 years ago
Reply to  Dave Weeden

I take your point, perhaps I’m being over harsh.

Chris Wheatley
Chris Wheatley
2 years ago
Reply to  Fraser Bailey

I agree with you but I am confused (in general, not with your contribution). To me, whatever the recent Covid issues, the thing which is leading us to disaster faster than anything else is the rush to decarbonise. Nobody seems to care about it.
So a future of limited land travel, presumably no caravans (good to me but some actually like caravans), perhaps reduced or no flying, limited imports, winter days huddled around a cosy heat pump, growing our own vegetables in the garden, a few chickens in the kitchen, getting together at night for a singsong. What does this remind me of? Oh, yes – the PAST.
If I remember, there was one group of scientists who believed in Anthropomorphic Global Warming and another group who didn’t. The government said, ‘Stop!!’. So now there is no argument or discussion allowed, and people like me have become ‘Deniers’ (to be translated as Go And Find Another Planet). But even in all of this environmentalism, who is doing anything about plastic?
This is where scientists are actually needed – but it is not sexy and no money is available. As I say below, science today has come to mean ‘Social Science’ – something which I do not recognise as science at all. But who am I?

Sue Julians
Sue Julians
2 years ago

Stonkingly good piece. I had a similar upbringing since my dad designed the blades of aeroplane engines. Kitchen table physics and critical thinking was very much part of it.
I’ve been horrified in my sector too, that emotions trump everything else, anecdote is rebranded as lived experience so cannot be challenged, and the intertwining of mind and body has been repeatedly refuted by a particularly interested lobby, when discussing long covid.
Wonderful piece that says it all.

Rasmus Fogh
Rasmus Fogh
2 years ago
Reply to  Sue Julians

the intertwining of mind and body has been repeatedly refuted by a particularly interested lobby, when discussing long covid

Could you expand on that? I do not know what you mean, and it sounds interesting.

Sue Julians
Sue Julians
2 years ago
Reply to  Rasmus Fogh

Long covid looks to be a variety of different post viral illnesses. Some of it autoimmune, some a prolonged clearing of residual virus. It can include ME/CFS symptoms, (PEM) but lung problems and anxiety is a regularly reported symptom, along with brain fog etc. ME/CFS patients have often been told that their illness is entirely psychological, and they have long battled for research to show a biomedical origin for their illness. Thus they reject any notion of there being a psychological component to long covid.
I’m a musculoskeletal physio, and we have been long taught to consider psychosocial stressors in patients’ lives which may be a barrier to their recovery. We treat holistically, since a patient with a disc problem will recover differently if, for example, they are a new mother and lifting a baby, or a single office worker. This does not belittle the legitimacy of the physical complaint, but allows us to plan treatment and advise according to a patient’s needs, not their diagnosis.
Thus the clash. ME/CFS sufferers feel an affinity with long covid sufferers (some of whom may go on to develop ME, but certainly not all) and reject any notion of holistic treatment, since many were given CBT / GET and nothing else, and told everything was in their head.
But there are lots of different types of long covid, so we need to be open to everything that may adversely affect it, and on the other side, what can help recovery.

Last edited 2 years ago by Sue Julians
Rasmus Fogh
Rasmus Fogh
2 years ago
Reply to  Sue Julians

Thanks.

Chris Rimmer
Chris Rimmer
2 years ago
Reply to  Sue Julians

Just interested to know whether you heard Dr Pierre Kory saying to Dr Mobeen Syed (“Drbeen Medical Lectures” on YouTube) that he’s found Ivermectin helps some patients with long covid? (Video from 26 Feb).

Last edited 2 years ago by Chris Rimmer
Sue Julians
Sue Julians
2 years ago
Reply to  Chris Rimmer

It’s fascinating stuff. Plus the vaccine relieving symptoms in others. Often the worst sufferers are those who had the mildest disease. Some fully recover, then get hit six months later. More seem to have a week or so feeling better after the illness, then get sick again.
so the latest research being done by petrino lab, suggesting that there may be up to 10 different syndromes, seems ever more likely.

Chris Wheatley
Chris Wheatley
2 years ago

Fabulous.

Pushing climate and Covid issues to one side, I have called myself a scientist for the last 45 years – working in the field of new materials. It became obvious to me in about 1995 that science was not about proofs and counter proofs, or right and wrong – but about money. If you went to a conference about a certain issue one guy would say that Process A was the answer. A year later another conference about a completely different thing would bring the same guy promoting Process A. Of course, his company was marketing Process A. It was usually rubbish.

About this time all of the useful and meaningful science came from China. 95% of the useful research was in China. Today, that is still the case. Of course, they don’t follow all of the rules of the west and some of their trials would not be ‘ethical’ in our world.

Last edited 2 years ago by Chris Wheatley
Galeti Tavas
Galeti Tavas
2 years ago
Reply to  Chris Wheatley

USA still leads the science. The Chinese just refine it.

Chris Wheatley
Chris Wheatley
2 years ago
Reply to  Galeti Tavas

The US leads the science of warfare. No others.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
2 years ago
Reply to  Chris Wheatley

“War is the father of all things”.*

(*Heraclitus)

Kathy Prendergast
Kathy Prendergast
2 years ago
Reply to  Chris Wheatley

Did you ever get a polio vaccine?

Alex Lekas
Alex Lekas
2 years ago

Science is being nudged aside by scientism, the politicizing of science which was warned about long ago. A famous Dwight Eisenhower speech spoke of the potential dangers of a growing military-industrial complex. The speech also had a second component that is usually ignored – concern about a growing nexus between scientific research and govt funding wherein grant awards were predicated on the “science” producing a particular conclusion. That’s not science at all.
Is it any wonder that all govt-funded papers on climate point the same way? What are the statistical odds of that? And now we see scientism with Covid, too, with people willingly ignoring glaring contradictions in what they’re told. I’d have a lot more respect for people who occasionally say “we just don’t know” regarding a particular question.

Christine Massot
Christine Massot
2 years ago
Reply to  Alex Lekas

Unfortunately, many experts with an alternative narrative have been censored and unable to comment

Chris Wheatley
Chris Wheatley
2 years ago
Reply to  Alex Lekas

Very well put.

Jesse Jones
Jesse Jones
2 years ago

There has been a convergence of outcome to the following question, across the three most currently powerful professions, Politicians (elected or otherwise) Journalists, Scientists, driven by a common answer to the risk/benefit calculation.

Do I follow the herd? Or do I play ‘safe’ and keep my head down?

Journalists who don’t question the political narrative are not journalists, they are propagandists.
Scientists who won’t look for alternatives when their theories don’t fit the facts are Priests not scientists.
And only fools believe what Politicians say anyway.

The result is that we have accelerated ever more quickly along the road to hell.

Jesse Jones
Jesse Jones
2 years ago
Reply to  Jesse Jones

That should be Do I play safe and follow the herd? Or put my head above the parapet and potentially get shot?

Joe Seligman
Joe Seligman
2 years ago

This is, alongside with Janet Daley’s, the best article I’ve read about lockdowns. Hands down. I love you.

Jonathan Oldbuck
Jonathan Oldbuck
2 years ago

What a welcome article. I recently read Matthew’s book Why We Drive and highly recommend it.
He’s right: mask wearers truly are the walking dead.

Richard Lord
Richard Lord
2 years ago

It appears that science will be our saviour, with the rollout of vaccines. At the same time science, egged on and bolstered by the MSM has, seemingly, destroyed the ability of large parts of the population to think for themselves. The government has also seemed unable to remove itself from the grip of ‘the science’ to make reasonable decisions. Can we really justify women being forced to give birth without their partners, old people still imprisoned in care homes, etc?

There will always, quite rightly, be differing scientific opinions. However, the pandemic has shown that scientists desire for self promotion for themselves and their Universities has had a chilling effect. With so many differing opinions in every newspaper and on every screen it’s impossible to know who to trust. No matter what an editor wants to say they’ll find some obscure professor to support it.

The inevitable inquest must look closely at the role of science and scientists in advising the government and the role of the scaremongering and hysterical MSM.

Why waiting approval ??

Last edited 2 years ago by Richard Lord
Rasmus Fogh
Rasmus Fogh
2 years ago
Reply to  Richard Lord

This is what happens when people need an answer to an important problem *right now*, and there just is not the information you need to give one. People give their best guess, and both the questioners and the answerers forget to consider the uncertainty, and just double down on the answer they prefer. You should not forget that the first answer of the scientists in the health bureaucracies was that COVID would never come to Europe, if it did it would not cause an epidemic, and if it did it would quickly burn out. Just like MERS. “No worries, just use the normal ‘flu plan“. It took politicians to see the risk and start with border closures and lockdowns. The original estimate was actually not a bad guess, although it turned out spectacularly wrong, but the health scientists gave some very bad advice by not considering the risk that it might be worse than they first thought.

Alan Thorpe
Alan Thorpe
2 years ago
Reply to  Richard Lord

It is surely more complex than that. Our knowledge is now so extensive that it is impossible for anybody to know more than a small percentage of any of it in any detail. In many areas we get conflicting views, and we may have no means to resolve the differences ourselves. We cannot rely on “experts”, and certainly not politicians or the media.
A good start is to ask for evidence and Galileo is used as an example in this article. The evidence of our eyes tells us that the sun seems to be revolving round the earth and there is no easy way to prove it is not true.
It is just as complex with medical research. Take the discredited MMR/Autism research by Wakefield. He worked with a team, so did they know about the problems with the work? I believe the work was peer reviewed and published. Much is placed on peer review today, but it not possible to repeat the research and check it before publication. Peer review is only a publishing method and nothing else.
In some cases, it is easier to see when a fraud is taking place but even then, many cannot see it even when it is pointed out. A good example of this is Al Gore’s use of ice core temperature and carbon dioxide records to claim that carbon dioxide was causing the temperature changes. He deliberately separated the two graphs so that it was impossible to see what he claimed. I saw Prof Brian Cox do the same on an Australian TV programme called Q&A. Even when the graphs are together it is not easy to see the connection because of the compressed timescale but close examination shows that a link is the other way. As we often hear, correlation is not causation, and correlation is not detectable by eye. We have mathematical analysis to determine the correlation but when does anybody talking about this like produce the mathematical analysis? They don’t because they are lying about it. The correlation analysis has been done and papers are on the internet. There is not a strong correlation, and temperature leads carbon dioxide. The reason correlation is not causation is that there are often several variables that are ignored. This is a failure of education and as a result we have one of the biggest frauds ever with the belief we are creating a climate crisis. Perhaps if Greta attended maths lessons along with all her followers, and we had teachers who were not following ideologies we would not be in this mess.

Chris Wheatley
Chris Wheatley
2 years ago
Reply to  Alan Thorpe

Exactly. I already answered once but it is ‘Awaiting for approval’.

Steve Craddock
Steve Craddock
2 years ago

I disagree, at least in part, nowadays with the statement that “we get the government we deserve” ever since our UK government started to implement psychological control of the behavior of the population with the Behavioural Insight Team, aka the nudge unit, in 2010, I think.

This darkening dominion has now been extended further as a second pillar control has been rolled out in recent years, namely control of language and as a direct consequence the control of speech. In this case the words that are initially proscribed don’t really matter. Any hobby horse of the day will do, in fact the more different ones at the same time the better, especially if the control challenges some fundamental understanding or deep feeling. The purpose behind this is to make us feel uneasy and stop us in our utterances, and as a direct consequence shackle our free flow of thoughts, and seek guidance from those around us or other outside authority.

There are further examples of our growing subjugation with the introduction of the new modern deities, and for me the final indication of our ultimate destination is the implementation of control of our behaviour by presenting a general fear of impending doom as a ruse to issue more control mandates and attempt to slowly improverish the people while leaving big businesses mostly unaffected; a little like a financial neutron bomb. This is particularly clever as it plays on our failing education systems and effectively splits the generations as well as introducing the fear of being unable to feed, clothe and house yourself.

This route we are on seems further locked in with 2019-2020 demonstrating the implementation of, or at least the dry run for the control of movement and association.

With all these controls in place do we really get the government we deserve? Or in fact do we get the government we are given? This may explain why with the exception of one orange guy in the US recently they all seem the same and also possibly the extreme reaction this orange outlier caused.

Last edited 2 years ago by Steve Craddock
Chris Rimmer
Chris Rimmer
2 years ago
Reply to  Steve Craddock

while leaving big businesses mostly unaffected

FTFY
I think your argument is right, but I thought that was an important correction, and probably one you’d agree with.

Steve Craddock
Steve Craddock
2 years ago
Reply to  Chris Rimmer

Edited. Thanks Chris.

Brian Dorsley
Brian Dorsley
2 years ago
Reply to  Steve Craddock

This is exactly what the transgender debate and everything surrounding it was about. Once people can be made to believe absurdities, they can be made to commit atrocities.

Alan Thorpe
Alan Thorpe
2 years ago

Science can only be corrupted by scientists, so the question should be why are they doing this. The answer can only be money and/or power. The next question is what can be done about it. My conclusion is that nothing can be done, and we will suffer the consequences.
Our knowledge is now so extensive that individuals can only understand a small fraction. Specialisation has resulted in a failure to grasp a broader understanding of how we can use our knowledge. World leaders and philosophers have lost all sense of direction for modern society which does not help. The complexity of knowledge also means that it is difficult to establish the evidence for claims and then to determine whether they are valid. This is a failure of the education system, and it is because corrupt intellectuals have penetrated the education system. A book describing this process is Thomas Sowell’s “Intellectuals and Society”. Teaching is about what to think not how to think. In addition, society no longer values the elderly. Greta Thunberg demonstrates this daily. She has little education but thinks she knows everything. The elderly may not have more intelligence, but they have one thing she does not have which is experience of life and the wisdom it brings, and most important of all they are not so gullible. A younger generation that does not respect their parents and does not support a stable family life will have no future and that is where we are heading. It is not just about science; it is about a society that can live in harmony.
What astonishes me is how easy it is to fool people. As Mark Twain said – it is easier to fool people than to convince them they have been fooled. A classic example of this is Al Gore’s climate claims. He used the ice core temperature and carbon dioxide data to convince people that CO2 was driving the temperature changes. Anybody looking at those graphs can see that it is not true. But it is a failure of education. Firstly, we have quite simple mathematical techniques to establish correlation between variables. This has been done for these records and it shows temperature leads carbon dioxide but there is not a strong correlation. This is because both depend on other factors. How can some 30 years go by with Al Gore’s rubbish still being promoted?
It gets worse when The Royal Institution gets to work. Their Christmas lectures for 2020 were partly about climate. They reproduced an experiment by John Tyndall (who did not understand what he had observed) but this involved a glass tube in which different gasses were used. There was a candle at one end and an infrared thermometer at the other. The temperature of the candle flame was measured, not directly but through the gases in the tube. It was claimed the candle temperature fell when a so-called greenhouse gas was put in the tube. Gullible does not begin to describe this. Are people now so stupid that they believe a candle temperature depends on a gas in a nearby tube? Obviously yes. This of course is offered as proof that CO2 is changing the climate. We have well known physicists like Brian Cox promoting the same nonsense.
A far bigger influence on corrupt science must be our national treasure, David Attenborough. Recently, his lies about walruses climbing cliffs and falling to their deaths was repeated by the BBC, all because of climate change of course. How anybody looking at a walrus can think they have an ability to climb a steep cliff is beyond me. The facts are that they did not climb the cliff and it was never filmed. They went up a slope next to the beach to escape overcrowding and got to the top of the cliff. They were then attacked by polar bears and fell to their death trying to escape. How can the BBC and Attenborough be allowed to get away with this? Because many will now believe anything the media tells them.
President Eisenhower saw all this coming and discussed it in his farewell address. It is easy to find on the internet. Read it.

Chris Wheatley
Chris Wheatley
2 years ago
Reply to  Alan Thorpe

Alan, this is a brilliant comment but there aren’t enough scientists around to appreciate it. They are all hiding.

Christine Massot
Christine Massot
2 years ago
Reply to  Alan Thorpe

We as a society have been effectively brainwashed by media misinformation and propoganda to push an increasingly sinister agenda

Elaine Giedrys-Leeper
Elaine Giedrys-Leeper
2 years ago
Reply to  Alan Thorpe

No.
What the re running of the Tyndall experiment showed (as Tyndall showed) was that certain gases can absorb heat (in this case the heat from a candle).
I’m going with the C12 13 14 ratios over time, ocean acidification and infra red absorption as measured from satellites for now, as evidence that there are some fundamental changes going on.

Norman Powers
Norman Powers
2 years ago
Reply to  Alan Thorpe

Well, there is something that can be done, namely, defunding academia on a large scale. Of course there’s little chance of that today, but excellent essays like this one and of course, the work of many other people shining a light on the rampant corruption in academia, are laying the political groundwork to bring it about.

Simon Brooks
Simon Brooks
2 years ago
Reply to  Alan Thorpe

An interesting comment but I think the observation at the outset is a little too simplistic. People do not only act in the interests of obtaining/holding money or power. They also congregate, co-operate, join together and so on. The need to conform is very strong. This also leads to the labelling of those outside of the elite of an scientific discipline as being outsiders, being wrong and, indeed, being bad. Scientists are, in fact, no more rational than anyone else and are just as prone to this kind of herd mentality.

John Waldsax
John Waldsax
2 years ago

What a joy at last to read a proper analysis of the tensions between science, scientific method (philosophy) and “science” as it is perceived. The author refers to the seminal work by Sir Karl Popper (sadly without acknowledgement) defining science as trusting hypotheses until they are experimentally (or mathematically) disproved. As written by author and commenters below, every scientific claim is provisional; but some are less provisional (i.e. more tested) than others. As however to those who sadly sometimes besmirch this journal with libertarian sloganizing and approval for those who so value life that they will risk other’s to enjoy it, they should study Popper’s life and writing as well as his philosophy of science publications. His first book was “The Open Society”; a superbly argued case against the communism he had personally learned to fear and despise in his youth. It is as he demonstrated perfectly acceptable to admire and enjoy freedom while respecting open minded and disinterested scientists adhering to the philosophy of he science on which he remains the supreme authority..

Rasmus Fogh
Rasmus Fogh
2 years ago
Reply to  John Waldsax

Karl Popper’s work was trailblazing and a great advance in understanding. But has he not been partly superseded by now? In my admittedly limited understanding, the problem with falsification is 1) that it relies on absolute (dis)proof – which can be extremely hard to achieve in practice; 2) that it tends to suggests that all hypotheses that have not yet been disproved are equal. Bayesian reasoning should capture many of the same insights, but because it deals in probabilities, not certainties, it is better at handling various degrees of (un)certainty.

Paul Hayes
Paul Hayes
2 years ago
Reply to  Rasmus Fogh

Popper’s falsifiability as a demarcation criterion is still a useful rule of thumb but his falsificationism as a [solution to the “problem of induction” and] justification for a preference for frequentist methods in statistical / probabilistic inference hasn’t aged well.

Chris Wheatley
Chris Wheatley
2 years ago
Reply to  Rasmus Fogh

I could be wrong but I think this is why statistics are being used more and more. In the past, as you say, falsification required disproof. As stats became more important it has become necessary to show how unlikely something is. However, statistics can be fiendishly complicated and can be abused. Even in a peer review, where an eminent surgeon (say) is reviewing the success of a new technique, his authority is based on his success as a surgeon, not as an expert in stats.

Elaine Giedrys-Leeper
Elaine Giedrys-Leeper
2 years ago
Reply to  Chris Wheatley

In medicine now, if the peer reviewer doesn’t have a working knowledge of the stats used in the paper s/he is reviewing then they have no business completing the review.
All the journals I am familiar with have separate statistician peer reviewers.
The big 5 (JAMA, Lancet, BMJ, NEJM, Cell) have more than 1 reviewer for a paper they think they might pubish + an editor or two checking as well.
That is not to say that this is an error free process – it’s run by human beings + there has been a big problem in the last year finding enough reviewers with enough knowledge to do their job properly.
Peer reviewers generally are not paid for their largely thankless labours.

Chris Wheatley
Chris Wheatley
2 years ago

Thanks for that information. I am not in medicine but materials science.

I admit that my view was biased by the book, False Positives by Theodore Dalrymple. He follows the NEJM for one year (2017) and picks up about 50 papers which were ‘doubtful’. Roughly half were because the stats were wrong and half where the editors were behaving as wokes.

I even remember one which was so trivial that a lot of people could see through it. After his book, that paper was withdrawn.

Elaine Giedrys-Leeper
Elaine Giedrys-Leeper
2 years ago
Reply to  Chris Wheatley

I have to say that in medicine the NEJM has had a bit of an up and down reputation vis a vis quality of product for at least 15 years.
The Lancet you have to view askance as well because the long serving and I am sure very well meaning editor Richard Horton is not shy about banging the drum for the underpriviledged (in the widest possible sense of the word). His bias shines through in the selection of authors and papers sometimes.
JAMA in some ways is the most conservative and possibly the most reliable of all the big medical journals at the moment – they are not very keen on pre prints and historically have been very fussy about peer review = slow to publish.

Terry M
Terry M
2 years ago
Reply to  Rasmus Fogh

I didn’t think Popper believed that all hypotheses should be ‘believed’ before validation/falsification, but rather ‘entertained’, i.e. considered as possible.

Waldo Warbler
Waldo Warbler
2 years ago
Reply to  Rasmus Fogh

Implicit in Popper is the vital notion that a scientific theory is an effort to explain the available data. Theory may require updating as new data emerges. Until such contradictory data emerges, it is reasonable to operate as though the theory is correct. And, if – later – data emerges that cannot be explained by the theory, those acting by the theory prior to the new data emerging were nevertheless doing the ‘right’ thing.

Rasmus Fogh
Rasmus Fogh
2 years ago
Reply to  Waldo Warbler

@ Waldo, Terry M
All of which I agree with. But is it not true that a model that depends mainly on falsification has less to say about distinguishing between conflicting theories that have not (yet) been (completely) falsified? I’d say that Bayesian reasoning builds on Popper, captures much the same insights, but can be applied more widely.

Last edited 2 years ago by Rasmus Fogh
Waldo Warbler
Waldo Warbler
2 years ago
Reply to  Rasmus Fogh

I don’t think a model ‘depends on’ falsification; more that in some realms of inquiry, a model’s reliability is strengthened by repeated (unsuccessful) efforts at falsification.
I think you are right that there are realms of inquiry where idealised certitude (of falsification vs. not falsified) is inapplicable. Clinical trials perhaps represent one.

stgerje
stgerje
2 years ago

Your readers may enjoy this letter I wrote to the president of Brown University regarding their lockdown of books. This demonstrates the corruption of thinking Matthew speaks of.
LETTER SENT LAST AUGUST IN RESPONSE TO SILLY LIBRARY POLICY AND THE PSEUDO SCIENCE SUPPORTING IT – AT AN IVY LEAGUE SCHOOL …..
This morning, my wife pointed out Professor Oster’s opinion piece in the Washington Post. In light of my concerns about some of the covid containment decisions made by leading institutions (including Brown) it was with a smile I read a thoughtful perspective that runs counter to the collective confirmation bias narrative that seems to taint almost all decisions and discussion. Professor Oster’s observations resonate with me since I am concerned that some of the recent decisions made by Brown’s leaders are reactionary and not sufficiently based on facts and proper analysis.
As a customer of the university, I am a small stakeholder in the school’s policies: (i) policy impacts my son’s education at Brown; and (ii) my tuition money in some way demonstrates an implicit vote of confidence in the school, its leadership and its mission. While I can rant about how the decisions made in the insular Brown community undoubtedly are cited across the U.S. as proof that primary and secondary school children should have limited classroom learning (regardless of the long-term harm) out of the abundance of caution doctrine, I will not. Instead, I am more curious about the math supporting limiting access to the libraries and the 96 hour quarantine that is required of books.
I read the analysis that the book quarantine is based on. It seems that virulent covid strips were placed in books with the strips tested for the virus at different time frames. One chart in the IMLS study shows that somewhere between 0 days and 1 day the virus falls below a level where it can no longer be accurately measured. So, I am left wondering how do we go from this strip of virulent virus paper test to conclusions about the real world library use where you implicitly think a different person would soon touch the same book in the same potentially infected spot, and by doing so would become infected?
Since the library is such an important asset to the students (and certainly my son), I am left wondering about how Brown sees: the probability that a specific book (out of Brown’s millions) experiences multiple touches (of non-library employees) within a week; the probability that the book had been in the hands of a person that both had the virus (5% chance?) and that person left a meaningful amount of virus on the book (1 in 3?). Very quickly you can see the real world risk of a double touch book is very small – less than 20 per million? This assumes that the virus actually transfers from person to book and book to other person (I did not see any analysis on this – I guess Brown assumes that it is a 100% certainty); this does not even consider the fact that once we pass the improbable gauntlet of virus transmission through a book, there is a very low probability that a student that gets the virus will have a bad outcome. As you can see this policy does not withstand scrutiny. 
I hope Brown students know that the policy is massively disproportionate vs the risk. Further, (I cannot help myself) the policy makes a huge and depressing statement on how Brown views risks with immensely unfair ramifications to poorer members of American society who will either be scared into unreasonable positions or subject to authoritarian directives that adversely impacts their lives.

Elaine Giedrys-Leeper
Elaine Giedrys-Leeper
2 years ago
Reply to  stgerje

How big is the library in question ? well ventilated ? queues at the check in / out desks ? water coolers for human interaction ? all available library staff immunocompromised in some way or looking after someone at home who is vulnerable ? It’s not all about books as fomites.
It’s like going to the beach – it isn’t being outside in the fresh air that is the problem (no problem at all), it’s what happens on the way there and back.

stgerje
stgerje
2 years ago

Huge. Plus books typically go out very seldom. The point is that the books were required to be quarantined 96 hrs in a special room before going our and then again before going in.
You may not be aware, in the US Ivy League schools are considered the top of the heap – and, their read on the “science” was a book is a transmission vector. Silly at the time, silly today. This echoes the issues raised by the author.

Elaine Giedrys-Leeper
Elaine Giedrys-Leeper
2 years ago
Reply to  stgerje

So if the books go out very seldom, they are just read in the library ?
Agree totally that the fomite argument went away a long time ago.

Yousef Syed
Yousef Syed
2 years ago

This is a great essay that sums a lot of my thinking around the politicisation of Science, and a few other matters.
To a CyberSecurity professional, such as myself, the idea of #SettledScience, is like thinking popular websites, operating systems or applications are _settled_, and thus above getting hacked!

And as an avid snowboarder and mountain biker, I find the idea of living a risk-free life as particularly distasteful!

Waldo Warbler
Waldo Warbler
2 years ago

Only a fool dismisses science. Only a fool thinks science has all the answers.
The clowns in the media (and there are many, such as much of the BBC, the remainer troupe, the Guardian…) latched onto Gove’s comments about expertise, demonstrating only their own failure of comprehension. Here is a simple illustrative scenario:
Imagine, unpleasant as it is, that you have some form of cancer. The surgeon presents you with two treatment options:

  • One offers a 98% cure rate, but a 60% chance you will never be able to enjoy sex again.
  • The other offers a 80% cure rate, and no other side effects.

Would you let “the expert” choose for you? Choosing between these two is beyond the realm of expertise. Choosing – for example – between risk of incontinence and and risk of impotence is a tough choice some men have to face in prostate cancer treatment. This is not a matter of expertise.

Last edited 2 years ago by Waldo Warbler
andrew harman
andrew harman
2 years ago

An excellent, if lengthy article. I agreed with almost all of it and have despaired at the supine compliance of so many who seem to be desirous of being told what to do. The 29% statistic I found extraordinary – are people really that stupid? A vacuity comparable with Q-Anon.
A number of points of my own.
1) I noted the report regarding the impact of the second wave on those of south Asian descent this morning and how the scientists behind the report put it down to structural racism. I was left thinking that they are essentially saying that the lifestyle choices of others are the fault of the rest of us for tolerating this. Critical Race Theory is clearly colonising science.

2) There is too much binary thinking whereby of you question the policies of the last year, it is assumed that you are insouciant with regard to deaths; many seem unable to see any kind of via media in anything. Governments have been following A science rather than THE science. It may be down to a desire for certainties that used to be provided by religion.
3) Something I have been thinking for some time now. Those in positions of power (be it political and these days, scientific) are terrified at the thought of being blamed for anything that goes wrong. I genuinely think that this is a major motivating factor in their thinking, the old instinct for self preservation.

Brian Dorsley
Brian Dorsley
2 years ago
Reply to  andrew harman

Yes, institutional cowardice is rampant.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
2 years ago
Reply to  andrew harman

Many still believe a man actually rose from the dead. Is it any wonder that they now believe this Corona tosh? Or that one Ashli Babbitt (deceased) was about to overthrow the Republic.

Norman Powers
Norman Powers
2 years ago
Reply to  andrew harman

Re: 29%. Actually no, the population aren’t that stupid. The poll in question was found to be badly constructed and the reporting of the results was even worse. There were problems with means vs medians, if I recall correctly. It actually could not tell us much about what people actually thought.

Kathryn Dwyer
Kathryn Dwyer
2 years ago

Kathryn Dwyer
Such clear sensible thinking and beautifully written. Wish I could express myself so well (in French especially). I’m encouraged by the discreet civil disobedience here in the sparsely populated French countryside during our third lockdown, by friends (mostly well over 60) who have decided they are best suited to evaluating whether travelling 20kms not 10kms increases risk. Compliance I believe is induced through fines, not conviction of the wisdom and efficacy of the strategies. Although 60% of those who participated in a government poll on ‘vaccine passports’ were very strongly against their introduction for access to cultural activities……. M.Macron has just announced that a ‘passe sanitaire’ will be required from June to access very large cultural events. So much for consultation! The slippery slope get more treacherous.

Edward De Beukelaer
Edward De Beukelaer
2 years ago

Very well written article but the same mistake as always is being made is assuming that the model of modern medicine is the right and only model to work with. Medicine has in the last 40 years become an industry of illness based on the genuine good will of doctors, then nicely packed in by the industry and now delivered by the same doctors who use this well constructed packages with conviction and diligence. Indeed as said in this article, nearly the whole of research in medicine is somewhat controlled by the industry. Nobody can blame the industry because they are just sellers of pills, they have no real duty to society apart from working within the law…. which is often also written with the best advise of the (industry) experts…. I have met the pharmacy reps for years and many medical people now accept that you can never trust what a the industry tells you (Note that was one of the conclusions of the first International Evidence based veterinary medicine congress in Windsor a few years ago..)
In 2015 the editor of the lancet wrote that 80% of peer published research is either of poor quality or irrelevant for medical progress…
The big scandal of the covid episode is the lack of advise of the governments: telling their population to massively eat well, stock up on essential vitamins and oligo-elements (our modern food is so poor on nutritious ingredients we need to complete..) and live healthy in general. Of course this is not scientifically exciting and satisfying but improving the health of the population is more effective than scaring the hell out of everybody….
Further they should have treated people at the beginning of infections which whatever existing treatments that were proposed and suggested and not wait till they arrive in hospital.
Investment in remdisvir was a catastrophe: not effective, lots of side effects and possibly increasing mutations of the virus: how did it happen the politicians fell for this medicine????
The history lesson in 10 -20 years will show that 2020 was the dark ages of health policy (and medicine as well but that is a different story)
… and we sacrificed the young people who will be paying for all the mistakes being made…. I am not very proud to be part of this society…

Athena Jones
Athena Jones
2 years ago

In the past century of what can be called modern medicine or Allopathy, we have seen rates of serious and chronic disease continue to rise, worse in children.
Despite all the claims for some new whizz-bang techo toy or pill to cure Cancer, we have not managed to find a cure for Cancers, plural although manipulating statistics make some ‘survival’ rates better than others, and we have gone from one in more than ten with Cancer in 1900 to one in two today.
So, whatever modern science-medicine might do, and people spend their lives having this test or that, taking this pill or that, having this surgery or that, this procedure or that, we do not have better health. In fact quite the opposite.
In the 1950’s some inspirational and enlightened medicos believes that the new processes of medicine would mean better health and less disease and hospitals and medical costs would diminish. Instead, the opposite, with modern hospitals bigger and bigger, the cathedrals of today and health, worse and worse, and medical costs crippling people and economies. They meant well and they got it wrong.
Interference in natural function, whether chemicalising childbirth and pregnancy; manipulating and confusing immune function with vaccines; repressing symptoms with drugs; tinkering physically with unnecessary and often ineffective surgery, has made humans sicklier not healthier.
Only a fool keeps doing the same thing and expecting a different result. And the qualifier is, in a situation of crisis or trauma, and necessary surgery, modern Allopathic medicine is your best bet. However, for good health and robust immune function, avoid it like the plague.

Rasmus Fogh
Rasmus Fogh
2 years ago

Very thoughtful and understanding article. I’d mention a complication, though.

Science was always collective. It might have been possible to to do more thinking and experimenting alone, once, but then, as now, the difference betwen a scientist and a lone crank is that he could and did convince his peers. And being part of the group, as well as some minimal level of competence, requires a dedication to ending up with the truth, and some respect for the evidence. That is clearly lacking in the ‘Critical Theory’ crowd, I’d say, but it is also lacking in a lot of the anti-lockdown, anti-global-warning warriors. If you want a group consensus, which is what outsiders need to rely on for advice, you have to have a way of excluding people with strong preconceived ideas who refuse to listen to evidence. People who refuse to be convinced and keep coming up with new specious objections every time they are rebuffed can of course be found a anywhere, including science, but in mainstream science they have to eventually pipe down or get tuned out of the discussion. Leaving them in – let alone giving them access to your notes and the right to be answered – would give any motivated minority the power to block any result they disliked.

Once upon a time, the physics department at a university got a letter from a retired machinist who had started studying the theory of relativity, and found an obvious and irrefutable example showing why the theory was wrong, He was deeply offended when the department head sent him a fairly short explanation why it was he who was wrong, and gave the detailed proof of it as a student exercise. I would not knock the machinist. I had thought similar things myself and come up with similar counterarguments, before I learned enough to navigate the paradoxes – and had to choose between making my peace with relativity and abandon the study of physics. But if each such letter deserved a detailed answer, scientists would never get time for anything else.

Last edited 2 years ago by Rasmus Fogh
Chris Rimmer
Chris Rimmer
2 years ago
Reply to  Rasmus Fogh

There’s something in what you say, but I don’t think the solution is as easy as “exclude the people who are ‘obviously’ wrong”. My current field is economics, and I see the way in which the pursuit of truth is secondary to maintaining a grip on the narrative, and not just in mainstream neoclassical circles but in opposing schools of thought too.
What I think we need is an open exchange of ideas and data, but with genuinely trustworthy and trusted people who can present a simplified but honest account of the state of knowledge to the public. Unfortunately, I don’t know how this can be done when there is an obvious incentive for certain groups to capture the media. All I can say is that we all have a responsibility to be committed to truth, and doing what’s right even if it is at our expense.

Rasmus Fogh
Rasmus Fogh
2 years ago
Reply to  Chris Rimmer

All I can say is that we all have a responsibility to be committed to truth, and doing what’s right even if it is at our expense.

I’d back you on that. Though in economics you have a tough problem, with a field whose rules change over time as society develops. What kind of things are there that command a stable consensus across the whole field?

Chris Rimmer
Chris Rimmer
2 years ago
Reply to  Rasmus Fogh

What kind of things are there that command a stable consensus across the whole field?

That’s actually my area of (independent) study. Here a couple of things:

  1. In order to own or consume something, someone must have produced it first (or produce it concurrently).
  2. For every debt owed to someone, there is an equal debt owed by someone, and vice-versa.

Going on from there, if you define ‘raw net worth’ as everything you own plus everything owed to you minus everything you owe to others, then:

  1. Production adds what you produce to your raw net worth without taking from anyone else’s.
  2. Consumption takes from your raw net worth without adding to anyone else’s.
  3. Everything else which adds anything to one person’s raw net worth takes exactly the same amount from someone else’s.

Just to be clear, I’m not talking about monetary values (assuming that concept can even be defined precisely) of what you own, owe and are owed. I’m talking about the heterogeneous collection of the things themselves.
What you end up with is a model based around balance sheets which scales linearly to the whole world’s economy. You can study the macroeconomics of an arbitrarily small or large economy, for example.
I think that these points are irrefutable and universal, even though there isn’t a consensus because most economists don’t think this way – yet!

Rasmus Fogh
Rasmus Fogh
2 years ago
Reply to  Chris Rimmer

Interesting. Good luck with the work.

Edward De Beukelaer
Edward De Beukelaer
2 years ago
Reply to  Rasmus Fogh

Dear Ramus,
Again me: very thoughtful reply of yours here but as covid is one of the central themes here we are talking about the complexity of individuals with an added layer of complexity of society. We talking about living organisms (yes a population is a living organism)
Once you reduce such complexity of the living to the analytical method: you lose what the living really means and its values. Of course the statistical model can give ideas of what ‘on average’ may well happen and create a narrative (and make economical calculations for budgets etc), gives you odds of outcomes, but once you do this you have ‘dehumanised’ an individual patient and a population.
Do you want to be ‘an average’ when you go and see your doctor or society makes a decisions about medicine for you? This is a big conundrum in medicine: science has certainly vastly increased the knowledge of the ‘bits’ of the living but not the value of the living… the art par of medicine.
It is by loosing the value of the individual and the art part of medicine that we have come to the discussion we are having in this article and threat. But society struggles with finding a solution.
The latest EU4Health workshop on the future of health policy showed this clearly: there is a desire to improve health and have a medicine that is more health (rather than industry of illness) oriented but the main speakers struggle finding the answers because their talk needs to sound and look ‘scientific’ .
Types of medicine that treat the individual and have a more whole patient approach and refuse to see the patient as an assembly of bits (which suits the modern medicine approach and research so well) have vast accumulations of experience and evidence but are discarded for not falling in the current mainstream medical model. If something is not working very well, don’t try an do more of the same: look left and right… and allow true non-passionate discussion to take place even when it does not suit the current narrative …
In physics of course one can accept a scientific ‘truth’ depending of what you examine or the level of detail you work with: from running a satellite down to examining quarks etc . You can do this also with an individual patient (and modern medicine has done this with great success in acute conditions: saving lives…) but once you do this you loose sight of who this person/patient is, what is important for this patient, how has he/she become to the situation he/she is in, what this individual patients is sensitive to and how this sensitivity has lead to the situation at the time of examination with the added influence of hereditary and family influences etc etc: a very individual complicated narrative which makes the analytical approach useless.
Medicine will need to accept other medical models to bring answers to this complexity…

Mark Cole
Mark Cole
2 years ago

Very worrying that the undercurrent from Government is to encourage working from home not only in the public sector and cvil service but also the private sector. Whilst some increase in flexible working will take stress out of peoples lives and probably help with traffic congestion and public transport crowding if enforced it will result in, inter alia,
Lower productivity – lack of stimulation, monitoring , learning on the job
Slower expert learning curves with reduced human ineraction
The public sector/civil service (front line excluded) already have a a very soft corruptible culture with no unemployment risk, a pay premium to the private sector and fact cat final salary pensions (see ex pension ministers report last week)
Over 6 million are now in public sector or related employment
Councils are forced to increase rates largely due to the burden of increased pension liabilities. The Government needs to address this Elephant in the room, rule of DBS benefit actual now and put the public sector pensions on a DCS basis – levelling down of down pensions will release money to level up elsewhere
Note that 50% of science research grants goes to salaries and pensions budget of existing University FTEs

Simon Newman
Simon Newman
2 years ago

Bauer’s concept of a research cartel came into public awareness in an episode that occurred five years after his article appeared. In 2009, someone hacked the emails of the Climate Research Unit at the University of East Anglia in Britain and released them, prompting the “climategate” scandal in which the scientists who sat atop the climate bureaucracy were revealed to be stonewalling against requests for their data from outsiders.”
I think that was the moment ‘science’ as the scientific enterprise died in the West. The Establishment reaction to that was not to condemn/deligitimise the CRU, but to shut down debate – “The Science is Settled” – “We will no longer give space to Deniers” et al. This really laid the groundwork for Covid 2020 – for turning a serious disease into a man-made global catastrophe.

Rasmus Fogh
Rasmus Fogh
2 years ago
Reply to  Simon Newman

You could greatly strengthen your argument by publicly releasing all the notes and internal data of leading global warming sceptics – and their financial backers. Just to show your lot are better and have nothing to hide.

Norman Powers
Norman Powers
2 years ago
Reply to  Rasmus Fogh

The leading global warming skeptics are all retired bloggers who publish everything on the internet. That’s obvious to anyone who ever investigated the topic – there are no shadowy armies of skeptics working for oil companies. That’s a Guardian fantasy, but it’s not real. Go search the internet for skepticism and what you get is lots of grumpy retired engineers with graphs, charts and arguments with comment sections underneath. Nothing is hidden. That’s very different to the field of climatology itself, which is riven with secrecy and cliquey in-groups who refuse to share data and code.

Rasmus Fogh
Rasmus Fogh
2 years ago
Reply to  Norman Powers

It might be significant that your grumpy, retired engineers do not have much in the way of data to share, or code to analyse it with. Which does, sort of, weaken their argument. But if some enthusiast with time on his hands got the chance to go through the mails and harddisks of your sceptics, I am sure he could put together a post that would show them for utter idiots, with a minimum of selective quoting. You should not dish it out if you cannot take it.

Last edited 2 years ago by Rasmus Fogh
Fran Martinez
Fran Martinez
2 years ago

“Journalists, rarely competent to assess scientific statements critically, cooperate in propagating the pronouncements of self-protecting “research cartels” as science.”

This immediately reminded me of Tom Chivers…

Daniel Shaw
Daniel Shaw
2 years ago
Reply to  Fran Martinez

There is precisely no point reading his articles. How someone that credulous calls themselves a science journalist is beyond me.

Norman Powers
Norman Powers
2 years ago
Reply to  Fran Martinez

That seems unfair. What are you judging him against? Tom is drastically better than most science journalists in the field, in that he actually reads papers he’s reporting on and is willing to show skepticism about academic claims. His takedown of the falling sperm counts lady for example, was very good.

Fran Martinez
Fran Martinez
2 years ago
Reply to  Norman Powers

Exception that proofs the rule maybe?

Fran Martinez
Fran Martinez
2 years ago
Reply to  Norman Powers

Exception that proves the rule maybe? Also, as the article clearly suggests being better than most is not a sign of quality.

Mike Rieveley
Mike Rieveley
2 years ago

The belief that science is somehow separate or unrelated to the needs of society has never been the case. That observable events that have been revealed by the scientific method, have not always been automatically accepted as it may contradict long held belief, continues to this day. The interpretation of what has been revealed by science and how to apply that has always been determined by the governing power at the given place and period when and where whatever the discovery, for the good of the society, state, nation or whatever organisational entity.
The notion that it was the choice of an individual is fanciful. We are taught of the discoveries of Archimedes, Galileo, Newton, Einstein etc, yet in truth none of their discoveries, regardless of their individual brilliance, would have seen the light of day if society, in the broadest sense, had chosen not to promote those ideas.
All progress is made up of the interested activity of more than the individual. It is about the joint efforts of many individuals. The choice of what is preferred and promoted is determined by the government, whether that be local, national or international.
Whatever the course of action taken with regard to science or any other determinate some of the consequences will certainly be disapproval from those who suffer from the implementation of those measures whilst those who benefit will take the opposite view. Each as individuals have equal right to express that view.
In circumstances where people are dying and there has been a strong likelihood that the systems that many rely on would break under the strains of the pandemic, then it is quite understandable that measures were introduced to help protect those systems.
As the crisis eases we are now seeing restrictions lifted. The system by and large have held up. Without those restrictions they would surely have failed.
It may be frustrating and for some have difficult consequences but the alternative would have been more catastrophic to the nation in both short and long term.

Lindsay Gatward
Lindsay Gatward
2 years ago

Brilliant essay. Very interesting is the comment right at the end of the video interview about so many folk really liking the Lockdown and Mask restrictions because it has restricted their choices and so hugely reduces the responsibility of making choices. It is as if they enjoy returning to semi childhood where there is little responsibility of making choices. Also it seems likely that this type of obedience to a higher authority fits with the need for parental approval (which is so beneficial to the succeeding generations of any species that goes beyond purely instinctive behaviour). Parental approval seems likely to be so significant to our species development that it subconsciously persists for the whole of life and explains the composition of all our social structures from political and business hierarchy to professional association to clubs of all kinds and religion of course. The need for parental approval becomes the need for admiration from our peers to approval from leaders or captains of our field or any higher authority and maybe even explains why actual leaders at the height of achievement want to pass their powers to a higher authority as in ‘joining’ something like the EU. Perhaps those that as an adult like to submit to whatever is needed to obtain the comfort of this approval are trying to make up for what they did not receive as a child?

covidcattle
covidcattle
2 years ago

This is a great article. Someone should have proofread this error.

“Covid is indeed a very serious illness, with an infection fatality rate about ten times higher than that of the flu: roughly one percent of all those who are infected die.”

“About 50% of those polled had a more realistic estimate of 1%. The actual figure was about one tenth of one percent.”

The IFR is likely roughly similar to flu. Definitely not 1%. In the course of two paragraphs the numbers switched from 1% to .1%. Certainly the IFR has been dropping since early on. But it was unlikely to have changed an order of magnitude between paragraphs.

Athena Jones
Athena Jones
2 years ago
Reply to  covidcattle

And corrected grammar.
But what sort of regime are we to be citizens of?
But, of what sort of regime are we to be citizens

Rasmus Fogh
Rasmus Fogh
2 years ago
Reply to  Athena Jones

That is arrant nonsense, up with which I will not put!” Winston Churchill

Athena Jones
Athena Jones
2 years ago
Reply to  Rasmus Fogh

Yes, well aware of current attitudes to poor grammar, but what can be said is not the same as how it sounds when written. Then again, does anyone employ sub-editors anymore, let alone editors?

penangtom
penangtom
2 years ago
Reply to  covidcattle

Those two contexts were different: IFR relating to death after infection, the polled figure relating to how many people in the population had died.

In July of 2020, 29 % of British citizens believed that “6-10 percent or higher” of the population had already been killed by Covid. About 50% of those polled had a more realistic estimate of 1%. The actual figure was about one tenth of one percent. So the public’s perception of the risk of dying of Covid was inflated by one to two orders of magnitude. This is highly significant.

Not the same as IFR, but perhaps the MSM confused the two, as they did with so much else like rates of infection as opposed to counts of infection. These confusions could lead one to despair.

Rasmus Fogh
Rasmus Fogh
2 years ago
Reply to  penangtom

Sounds to me like simple confusion, in part. People find it hard to deal with ratios and percentages – percent of what, basically. ‘6-10%’ may be an overestimate either way, but more likely people think about something like the case fatality rate, and just are not clear exactly what the question means.

Athena Jones
Athena Jones
2 years ago

What is too often overlooked is that the scientific system of enquiry can only understand what it can measure.
Which means, only that which is deemed to be able to be measured, or deemed to be suitable to measure, or deemed to be profitable to measure, will be measured. Which means, a great deal is left out.
Objectivity in science can appear where independence is encouraged or possible. But, this is no longer the case. Which means, everything which comes out of the scientific system of enquiry is highly subjective, at both conscious and unconscious levels. The system is meant to bypass the ‘observer’ effect but that same effect is involved in deciding what can be studied, what will be studied and who will do the studying.
If only those who support a certain scientific perspective get their papers published then the system is skewed and skewered before it even begins and the information coming out of the scientific system is not worth the paper on which it might be printed.
There lies the problem. We no longer have independence in science and that is its downfall and ours.

jackeddyfier
jackeddyfier
2 years ago
Reply to  Athena Jones

Not really overlooked. When scientists can’t measure stuff they make up stories: dark matter, dark energy, man-made climate change, lockdowns stop viruses, … They even believe the stories they make up because they’re set in a sciencey narrative framework called “modeling”.

Terence Riordan
Terence Riordan
2 years ago

The problem or solution that is not really addressed in this excellent article is that there are too few people who can feel/understand/draw conclusions from even basic arithmetic. People like to talk and have opinion and shout (metaphorically) the loudest even if what they are saying is absolute rubbish. This issue is that it is only a very small minority who are willing to do the work to understand and apply the tools and concepts of exploratory science and those that do are mildly vilified as narrow or geeks. This is not new. In the 60’s at school all the arts leaning kids at “A” level were amazed that these science geeks got better results in the General Paper. The reason of course is that people who apply themselves to science also experience the world around them as arts, history, language, music so the have a wider experience, whereas supposed artists have no experience of science.
How strange when our world is based on the fruits of science…food production, health, life expectancy , travel land sea and air, communication, visual and oral arts etc.
So when it is important to understand science, technology, analysis and logic to take fundamental decisions the decision makers and the influencers (media etc etc both structural and social) do not understand even what questions to ask never mind the answers they may get. Look at the education of all the politicians and media stars…none of them can even add up!!!!!!
They rely on (as the article says very clearly) failed scientists turned administrators (most medics are really not very scientific and most of them not the brightest in scientific terms) so it is no wonder that the results in a pandemic are useless. Especially with the complete distain of the Public Sector applied to the wealth creators ..the private sector
Luckily we got One and only One key decision right…throw everything at vaccines and take the project away from the Public Sector.
Freedoms we will not get back while the establishment and the majority of people cannot add up (metaphorically) and think ill thought out opinion is important.
The Scientific Method is hard because you can’t wave your arms about and shout loud….until we really expand it’s importance in schools and get more people having basic understanding we will not progress.
I am a physicist at degree level (Oxford) but also and entrepreneur in private sector so like the author I weep.

Chris Wheatley
Chris Wheatley
2 years ago

You speak the truth about science. I have a PhD in Materials Engineering and run my own business and I weep.
However, there are a few chinks of daylight. The lack of knowledge of science means that most people see science as ‘facts’. Any graph showing an assembly of facts is statistics. Today in universities, students prefer Social Science and this is slowly taking over from Science. So, you can have a theory about diet in the UK, dig up a few figures, draw some graphs and write a paper and become a scientist. As you will see, this is not really science at all.
When I was at university, medics were not considered to be the brightest. Again, they didn’t spend time designing experiments but they memorised a lot of data. They didn’t challenge existing ideas but followed the figures (as they saw them). So today we have a lot of medical doctors who, as GPs, just follow rules provided by the NHS. It is actually the biologists and biochemists, not the medics, who do the scientific bit.
So, we might learn from this Covid experience that the scientists to avoid are medics and social scientists. These seem to be the people advising the governments. Not really scientists.

Terence Riordan
Terence Riordan
2 years ago
Reply to  Chris Wheatley

Agreed my wife is a Biochemist so between us we can handle an appreciation of most things.

Nigel H
Nigel H
2 years ago

Excellent article – it should be compulsory reading for all scientists

Michael Coleman
Michael Coleman
2 years ago

Excellent article. It correctly places the tragic decline of science, into the quasi-religious and politicized “Science” of today, in a larger context. I was not aware of Martin Gurri’s book which I plan to read. His premise that the Internet is a large factor in the disintegration of authority across many fields intuitively seems right. The internet magnifies extreme voices which many times are wrong, intentionally or not. Nuanced voices, like Crawford’s
One can be fully convinced of the reality and dire consequences of climate change while also permitting oneself some curiosity about the political pressures that bear on the science, I hope.”
are usually drowned out by louder and objectively (as opposed to self described) less knowledgeable zealots at either extreme

Dougie Undersub
Dougie Undersub
2 years ago

An excellent essay and spot on wrt the corruption of corporate science in its obeisance to the gods of climate change.

tyche g
tyche g
2 years ago

It is not accurate that all science is big science. Even in my own subject, Physics, which is the home of big science, around half of the faculty in physics departments are not in big science areas. They do experiments in labs in the university, not for example at CERN, or are theorists who normally work in pairs or alone.
Of course money is still needed for small scale experiments to buy equipment. But it is hard to think of a better system than peer-review, for all its faults, to assign the money which is available. Of course the authors of proposals must then convince referees that what they are saying is correct and interesting (ie worthwhile investing in). But it is not really a vehicle for silencing critical voices, at least not in my discipline, more for filtering out dull work.
So the article, while interesting, slid from saying all science is big to then focusing on those areas with a direct interface with politics, which are in a small minority, and from that to discuss what the author termed “scientism”. Many commentators below do not seem to have noticed that distinction.
I’m not sure why the author agreed to have the headline attached – it is not true and not even what he was saying for much of the article.

Eva Rostova
Eva Rostova
2 years ago
Reply to  tyche g

Precisely.

The article fails to distinguish the scientific method from policy making. And ends with a rant about Covid policy, rather than, say, critiquing the underlying scientific consensus on the epidemiological characteristics of Covid.

Unfortunately, most commentators appear oblivious to the distinction, as you suggest.

Last edited 2 years ago by Eva Rostova
Norman Powers
Norman Powers
2 years ago
Reply to  tyche g

Sure there are better ways, like markets. Academia can’t see beyond peer review because it’s opted itself out of all the mechanisms the rest of the world uses to decide what is true or important, despite the vastly more sophisticated nature of those mechanisms.

tyche g
tyche g
2 years ago
Reply to  Norman Powers

if you mean don’t fund anything which markets cannot perceive as useful, simple.
Do you mean something more sophisticated than that?

Mark Preston
Mark Preston
2 years ago

It has been said, a people gets the government it deserves.” Or you could rephrase it as ‘morons vote for morons’.

Mike Boosh
Mike Boosh
2 years ago
Reply to  Mark Preston

When the only names on the ballot are all morons, what’s the alternative?

Cho Jinn
Cho Jinn
2 years ago
Reply to  Mike Boosh

The least moronic of them.

Richard Brown
Richard Brown
2 years ago

Did I detect a transatlantic tone in this superb essay? If so, the author might not be aware of how science is funded in this country – with most of it coming out of government coffers in one way or another – he who pays the piper calls the tune?
There is now no way that scientific advisors can hide behind the notion that their judgment is one that doesn’t rest on politics or prejudice – pure science has gone for ever, as long as advisers can say contrary and opposite things, all in the name of a vanished ‘factual’ philosophy.

Arnold Grutt
Arnold Grutt
2 years ago

“For authority to be really authoritative, it must claim an epistemic monopoly of some kind, whether of priestly or scientific knowledge.”

I’m sorry but I don’t agree. The possession of knowledge may facilitate common understandings, but it does not itself produce ‘authority’. To be honest, political authority is compulsion by force. An ‘authority’ that cannot require compliance by threats is simply not an authority at all. The word has been used loosely in science, as referring to unimpeachable sources for information, but that is not what legal authority means. Any scientific authority can be questioned. One cannot question a properly appointed judge about his entitlement to being able to compel people according to an unchallegeable law. A scientist cannot jail or punish people legitimately for not agreeing with him. Being ‘compelled’ to ‘believe’ something in any extra-legal field, even religion, is true only as a metaphor, being a personal choice to accept such ‘compulsion’. But there is no, nor should there be any, legal penalty or punishment, for not doing so.
What a legal authority is ‘ is the voluntary acceptance of such physically compulsive authority as legitimate by others, subject to escaping it by changing one’s physical location to another ‘legal’ domain in any case of disagreement. It’s similar to the process of accepting what a scientific authority might say in the way it operates, but the fundamental principle behind it is different. A legal authority is assumed to have the unchallengeable right to tell people what they cannot do (like leave court without permission if they are guilty). It is not at all dependent on their having superior degrees of accurate knowledge (except of the requisite conditions of their being allowed to exercise such authority lawfully, and judging what are infringements). Witnesses in a trial are not supposed to be able to prove their evidence scientifically (except when they are scientists, when their evidence will always take the form of ‘measurements’ or ‘opinions’ of one sort or another, but these are not automatically to be taken as ‘significant’ or ‘relevant’ until a jury, who are also legally authorised, decides they are. They may reject them), but as a believable assertion of truthfulness to what they witnessed as far as they are able.The only possible challenge to them would be that of lying, not merely erring in regard to the real ‘facts’, which in science are always provisional, and depend on the accepted conventions of measurement.

Last edited 2 years ago by Arnold Grutt
Shahzia Teja
Shahzia Teja
2 years ago

A beautiful, thoughtful article. Surprised to see an outdated and false infection fatality rate for covid persist though.

Kelly Mitchell
Kelly Mitchell
2 years ago

Great article. Thank you.

Fran Martinez
Fran Martinez
2 years ago

Amazing article, it connects so many points and explains the origin of the situation we are at so well. It gave coherence to many ideas that were floating around in my head. Thanks!

William Gladstone
William Gladstone
2 years ago

I am not a scientist. Scientific research has though improved our lives in a million ways and it has done this by being replicable and being challenged. The thing with covid and climate change is that supposed experts such as sage appear to spend most of their time blatantly misleading people meanwhile any dissenting voices whether experts or not are demonised. This is simply not science i.e. replicable and robustly challenged. Therefore it at best deserves the weight of biased expert opinion which is a million miles from objective tested fact.

Rasmus Fogh
Rasmus Fogh
2 years ago

One problem is that the process of replication and challenge can take a long time before it delivers a settled consensus. If you need an answer now – as you do with COVID – science is still the right thing to do, but it can only delier some alternative versions with probabilities attached.

Another problem is that when you do have enough data and time and get a consensus, you need to follow it until you get data that say something else. You cannot wait forever for a dissident minority. I think that is relevant to climate change.

Last edited 2 years ago by Rasmus Fogh
Athena Jones
Athena Jones
2 years ago
Reply to  Rasmus Fogh

That is a very unscientific approach. If you need an answer now then you will have one. Very dangerous.
Particularly since the science-medical system is not providing alternative versions with probabilities attached, but only certain versions which meet the hysteria, fear-mongering, tyrannical, vaccine approach.
The fact is, by what criteria do we need an answer to Covid now? Not from the threat of the virus for it remains no threat to 99.9% of people.
Perhaps from the threat of reactions to the virus, but that is a choice, sourced not in the threat of the virus but in all sorts of profit and power-driven agendas. And that is when the LAST thing we need is an answer from science which is not an answer because it is sourced in misinformation.
If in doubt, do nothing is something we need to remember and never more than in science-medicine where the capacity for great harm always exists, and never more so than when there is more ignorance and fear than facts and reason.

Edward De Beukelaer
Edward De Beukelaer
2 years ago
Reply to  Rasmus Fogh

Dear Rasmus: you make the same mistake as most do regarding science in medicine: evidence based medicine is a mix of both experience (the art of medicine) and the best available evidence mixed together ( https://www.bmj.com/content/312/7023/71 ). The one cannot do without the other: but the loudest voices have forgotten the art part and medicine is risking going straight into the wall taking many patients with it….

Rasmus Fogh
Rasmus Fogh
2 years ago

Do I? What you say sounds sensible to me, and I have neither knowledge nor desire to push myself into the kind of discussion shown in your link. Whatever I have said probably does not apply there. All I can say is that experience and individual judgement are undoubtedly important, but (as Di Bella shows) they also have to be tempered by something else. If you want you could expand on what you think I have said, and I will likely answer that I did not mean it that way. But it is probably not worth your time.

Last edited 2 years ago by Rasmus Fogh
Athena Jones
Athena Jones
2 years ago

This is an excellent article. There is little doubt that science sold its soul to Government and corporate agendas long ago. However, the rot began to set in even earlier, when the scientific system of enquiry set itself up in opposition to religion. And not just religion but the worst of religion, thereby slowly become in essence, the opposite force to fundamentalist religion and a religion itself. One could argue that modern medicine is a cult of modern science and Olivier Clerc argues this well in Modern Medicine: The New World Religion.
Ivan Illich, wrote about the dangers of modern medicine even earlier, in his book Limits to Medicine, published in the mid-Seventies, and, even more recently, editors of both The Lancet and The New England Journal of Medicine, Richard Horton and Marcia Angell have raised questions about the corruption of science and the dangers in medicine. And as Professor John Ioannadis, one of the most noted voices in science-medicine, concluded, Most Published Research is False. Science, the brightest ‘angel’ has gone rogue and is crashing to earth.
When the scientific system of enquiry set itself up as an alternative to religion, it created the shadow effect, where it became that which it condemned. One could argue that God in the form of modern science is potentially vastly more dangerous than God in the form of ancient religions in the modern age. But, like religions, modern science claims the mantle of good intentions, beneficence and presents itself as the saviour for humanity and the planet. The irony is that as a Dark Lord, it is just the opposite very often and the smokescreen of beneficial scientific advances begins to diminish in the face of its clear dangers.
And more so because modern science, for at least the past few centuries, has immersed and devoted itself to the delusional belief that all can be reduced to the material and the mechanical. And the great material and mechanical advancements that brought, saw both power and profits for the scientific industry escalate beyond all imagining.
So, now we have a system which sees itself as Godlike and takes religious form where dogma cannot be challenged, scientific ‘theology’ cannot be questioned, power and profit are the drivers, not independence, curiosity and a fascination with this world and all it contains; devoid of integrity, ethics and any kind of morality, and antagonistic to any sense of spirituality and humanity, holding sway in the world across all realms.
We have created the monster and given it more power than it can handle. It was never going to end well.

Last edited 2 years ago by Athena Jones
Chris Wheatley
Chris Wheatley
2 years ago
Reply to  Athena Jones

I don’t believe that medics are scientists. They just follow instructions from the NHS.

Roger le Clercq
Roger le Clercq
2 years ago

Uncommonly sensible article. Top of the class.

opop anax
opop anax
2 years ago

Thank you! At last an article that justifies the “Unherd” claim.

Eva Rostova
Eva Rostova
2 years ago

Misleading heading. There is a fundamental difference between the scientific method and evidence-based policy making.
This article merely makes a political/philosophical argument against inter alia lockdowns, and in doing so does not question the scientific consensus on the epidemiological characteristics of Covid-19. Indeed, the author heavily relies on Lord Sumption, who was very careful to make explicit that he opposed lockdowns on political/philosophical grounds, and made no comment on scientific matters, which is not his area of expertise. As a result, Sumption’s arguments are far more compelling than Toby Young’s Lockdown Sceptics Covid-deniers.
How is it so hard for UnHerd editors and readers to understand that one can fully accept the scientific consensus on Covid and be completely opposed to lockdowns? They are not mutually incompatible positions.
Far from the pandemic/lockdowns exposing “how science has been corrupted”, does it not rather suggest that people are terrible with statistics (as the author highlights above), Bayesian reasoning, and generally understanding risk (juxtapose big weddings happening in India as hospitals a few streets away turn away patients for lack of beds, or consider someone wearing a mask on a solitary walk in a country field).
On the subject of people being terrible with statistics and risk analysis (including systemic risk), the comments section of UnHerd is replete with individuals who deny the best available evidence of the effects of Covid, or indeed climate change.
Sadly, I suspect they will read this article (and the headline) as vindication of their alternative reality where Covid or climate change are no big deal and governments/policymakers/big pharma/Amazon etc are all engaged in some vast conspiracy to deprive them of their liberties.
We will never be able to have a rational policy debate without being able to agree on some basic, objective facts. I don’t see how that can happen on these pages if UnHerd continues to set up “science” as its bogeyman.

Last edited 2 years ago by Eva Rostova
Rasmus Fogh
Rasmus Fogh
2 years ago
Reply to  Eva Rostova

Hear, hear!!!

Cho Jinn
Cho Jinn
2 years ago
Reply to  Eva Rostova

Far from the pandemic/lockdowns exposing “how science has been corrupted”, does it not rather suggest that people are terrible with statistics (as the author highlights above),”
It could, but the author is rather clearly taking the next step to illustrate that the policy making is beyond negligent, i.e., it’s isn’t just that people are terrible with statistics, but they they are purposefully misleading people. The scientific method is corrupt insofar as the search for objective truth, ostensibly conducted in the name of “science,” is increasingly comprised by political interests.

Eva Rostova
Eva Rostova
2 years ago
Reply to  Cho Jinn

Could you provide a specific example of the Covid epidemiological analysis being compromised? Just trying to get a sense of what the complaint is precisely, because the article is impugning policy decisions rather than saying that the scientific consensus is wrong, say, on the IFR or R0.

RALPH TIFFIN
RALPH TIFFIN
2 years ago
Reply to  Eva Rostova

Is the fact that often our experts are NOT scientists a problem? For example if you check the education of many of the UK epidemiologists they are not scientists. They may have degrees in politics, political science and the like but have no practical medical education, have very little grasp of arithmetic yet give our gullible politicians their ‘expert’ opinions. Their opinions often reveal their political persuasions. Do their political views not compromise their analysis?

Eva Rostova
Eva Rostova
2 years ago
Reply to  RALPH TIFFIN

Could you provide examples of such people? To my knowledge, the epidemiologists advising the government or on SAGE are chaired university professors in the field.

For example, Prof Neil Ferguson is a tenured epidemiologist/mathematical biologist at the world-renown Imperial College London (where he is also vice-dean of the Medical School) and has a doctorate in theoretical physics from Oxford.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/scientific-advisory-group-for-emergencies-sage-coronavirus-covid-19-response-membership/list-of-participants-of-sage-and-related-sub-groups

Norman Powers
Norman Powers
2 years ago
Reply to  Eva Rostova

The Ferguson model was filled with bugs that caused it to be unable to generate consistent predictions, even though all it was doing was solving equations. The academic establishment rejected this as being a problem because, apparently, scientists write buggy code all the time and it’s unreasonable to expect them not to.
That’s a literal example of corruption in science, actual data corruption.

Rasmus Fogh
Rasmus Fogh
2 years ago
Reply to  Norman Powers

The last I saw, the verdict was that Fergusons code was somewhat below current programming standards – as you might expect for a ten year old program that had to be refitted in the devil of a hurry – but that there was nothing that seriously undermined his conclusions. If you have a link to something that shows otherwise, could you please send it?

Elaine Giedrys-Leeper
Elaine Giedrys-Leeper
2 years ago
Reply to  Norman Powers

Err … not quite the whole story as detailed here :
Critiqued coronavirus simulation gets thumbs up from code-checking efforts Nature June 2020

Daniel Shaw
Daniel Shaw
2 years ago
Reply to  Eva Rostova

Global excess mortality for 2020 was 0.03%, so a supposed pandemic has had no mortality impact. There is no correlation between speed and severity of policy response and mortality outcome. The COVID catastrophe is entirely self-inflicted, caused by a total lack of humility in the face of nature. The insights of science should inspire awe at the enormity of the universe but instead have led us into an attempt to play god.

Chris Wheatley
Chris Wheatley
2 years ago
Reply to  Eva Rostova

I’m sorry but if you are a scientist you are a very bad scientist. Today in science there is a requirement for a judgement NOW. This means that scientists take risks to avoid further discussion; they use false statistical analyses to show that they are right, they do everything to get the next grant for more research.
Discussions on this Covid outbreak are not clear and certainly not finished. On UnHerd there is a clear mentality of ‘we are tough, why should we do as we are told’. The facts discussed usually support this stance. This doesn’t make it correct or right. Only time will tell. The name UnHerd clearly means that the contributors do not see themselves as part of the herd so they have to disagree with all authority, all scientists and all governments.
Also, the AGW argument is by no means solid. In the UK, eminent scientists complained for years about our rush to decarbonise. Their grants were removed and therefore they were ‘wrong’. But the removal of grants is in itself anti-science. You should know better.

Eva Rostova
Eva Rostova
2 years ago
Reply to  Chris Wheatley

When does not being “part of the herd” as you describe it slide into simplistic nihilism, I wonder.

You are absolutely correct in that evidence-based policy making requires the best available evidence at the time, and therefore it will likely be incomplete or plain wrong in the longer term. It is an iterative process. We can now test the models and theories of spring 2020 against a year’s worth of data; no need for immediate or time-sensitive judgment. And I know that chaired professors of statistics like Sir David Spiegelhalter do not need to jump through any funding hoops when analysing the ONS data.

UnHerd commentators are I suspect just as bad as the average person in understanding that something that poses no material personal risk can still cause systemic healthcare collapses, as we see today in India.

I don’t consider any of the policy choices on offer (whether that’s GBD, draconian measures etc) to be more morally virtuous than the other, that’s a matter of subjective opinion. But there are measurable trade-offs, and suggesting the data that doesn’t support your policy preference is inherently corrupted strikes me as rather too convenient.

Last edited 2 years ago by Eva Rostova
malcolm harrison
malcolm harrison
2 years ago

This article is an important contribution to the growing conversation about science and social authority. But I’m puzzled why the picture heading this piece is a bunch of Chinese in matching uniforms. Something about this suggests to me that you dont really understand the problem you are trying to explicate.

jackeddyfier
jackeddyfier
2 years ago

Some of our elites aspire to the same level of social control that Chinese elites have over their population. They want to copy what Chinese elites do; especially with the Internet.

Elaine Giedrys-Leeper
Elaine Giedrys-Leeper
2 years ago

A very comprehensive argument / explanation for how scientific endeavour can potentially be corrupted and is as open to bias and manipulation as any other human activity.
This would have made me feel very depressed if I hadn’t watched Dominic Cumming’s performance at the Science and Technology Select Committee on March 17, passionately advocating for a UK version of ARPA – a high-risk, high-payoff organisation devoted to research in emerging fields of research and technology and (most importantly) beyond the reach of government bureaucrats. In DC’s words “making the UK the best place in the world to invent the future”.
I was bouyed up too, by the quality of the questions directed at Mr Cummings.
Looked like good government in action to me. Now the treasury just need to magic up the money to fund it.

Norman Powers
Norman Powers
2 years ago

Why? A UK ARPA is the last thing we need. The UK government already produces vast quantities of unusably poor and/or corrupted research. What makes the civil service think it will get better results from an ARPA equivalent than it gets from well funded universities? They have proven incapable of doing basic QA on research output and academia’s problem is not too much interference by politicians! Rather the reverse, the big problem in politics is too much interference by academics.
Cumming’s issue is that he’s overly impressed by physicists and thinks all “scientists” are like them. Not so.

Elaine Giedrys-Leeper
Elaine Giedrys-Leeper
2 years ago
Reply to  Norman Powers

From Mr Cumming’s conversation with the select committee :
“Dominic Cummings has attacked the Treasury for placing too many demands for cutting-edge science and technology projects to provide business cases …”
“There’s a tendency to think of the science funding system like there’s people running the system. But that’s not the reality,” he said. “The reality is that the system runs the people. There’s huge veto points everywhere, so everyone can block things. Everyone can stop good things from happening but almost nobody can get anything done. 
“This chain of bureaucracy runs all the way down from the people at the bottom of the hierarchy in things like EPSRC (the Engineering and Physical Sciences Research Council) making decisions about pure maths through the hierarchy of the EPSRC through UKRI (UK Research and Innovation) through BEIS and then up to the Treasury. 
“So you have these chains of business cases and e-mails running up and down and up and down this hierarchy for month after month after month driving everybody completely insane.”
“It’s why we had to take the vaccine process out of the Department of Health. But I don’t think that leads you to the conclusion that you make the Department of Health the client for Aria.”
Cummings told the session that chief scientific adviser Sir Patrick Vallance had led thinking on setting up the Vaccines Taskforce, which was led by Kate Bingham in a way that bypassed DHSC.
“Patrick Vallance, the cabinet secretary, me and some others said ‘obviously we should take this out of the Department of Health, obviously we should create a separate taskforce and obviously we have to empower that taskforce directly with the authority of the prime minister’,” he said.
As for Mr Cummings’ heroes – JCR LIcklider was a psychologist and computer nerd, Michael Nielsen is a physicist into quantum computing and Tim Gower is a mathematician.

Paula Adams
Paula Adams
2 years ago

Love the unherd. Great stuff. I just want to see what he is building in that garage. Looks like a VW Beetle. This was very interesting. He seems a little pompous, but he’s smart enough to carry it. Living here in the great state of Texas, many of us refuse to live in fear. Resist the urge to make your world safer and mind smaller! Idiot comments to my comment will not be engaged.

Eva Rostova
Eva Rostova
2 years ago
Reply to  Paula Adams

In the great state of Texas, no one needs to fear covid thanks to the vaccine being freely available. Most of the rest of the world is not so lucky, yet.

Kathy Prendergast
Kathy Prendergast
2 years ago
Reply to  Eva Rostova

Not being in a high-risk group I had no fear of Covid, even before the blessed developed-at-lighting-speed emergency vaccine. The only reason I got it was because of my job. Otherwise I would have declined and waited to see if there were any problems with it down the road.

Tony Reardon
Tony Reardon
2 years ago

Excellent article and thoroughly enjoyed. One small quibble was the reference to “Alvarez won the Nobel Prize in 1968 for his invention and use of the bubble chamber …” which is not 100% accurate. The bubble chamber was invented in 1952 by Donald A. Glaser who was awarded the Nobel Prize in 1960. Alvarez further developed this and used liquid hydrogen as opposed to ether which he used at various sizes up to 2 meters long to photograph particle interactions.
I recall using a cloud chamber in my A level physics class back in the 1960s.

Cho Jinn
Cho Jinn
2 years ago

Brilliant article.

Brett McSweeney
Brett McSweeney
2 years ago

A fascinating and informative article. The Climate Science field illustrates the ‘corporate’ nature of modern science in spades. Originally just a sub-field of geography – down the corridor, last door on the right – it has become the darling of universities, bringing in millions in research grants courtesy of political action. Now you can see the ring-fenced nature of the field as skeptical climate scientists – and some of them are the true pioneers in the field – are sidelined and the corporate young guns move in.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
2 years ago

“Only if people are sufficiently scared will they give up basic liberties for the sake of security”.

Hence the ‘genius’
of Christianity and all subsequent religions, including Science itself.

Last edited 2 years ago by CHARLES STANHOPE
Peter LR
Peter LR
2 years ago

The part that worries me is when the people with the money “pick winners”. This happen in industry where politicians invest in their chosen industries (a big EU problem) and get it wrong. Picking winners in Science will hold us back and exclude the eccentric lateral thinkers like Pasteur or Fleming from original research.

Paddy Taylor
Paddy Taylor
2 years ago

Pushing back against “the science” is treated as heresy. Unless you are a genuine subject matter expert it is difficult to mount a credible rebuttal of the science – if you can only say that common sense, or gut instinct, leads you to question what the scientists have proclaimed then you are open to charges of being “anti-science”, you’re a “denier”, equivalent to a heretic and can be excommunicated – and possibly damned – as such.
In the main I have gone along with the edicts of the Govt during lockdown, probably more out of my own confusion and a desire to be community-minded, then in any great trust of “the science”, much of which seems non-sensical to me. It is certainly inconsistent.
It is slightly different pushing back against, say, climate change, because – if it turns out I was wrong and the science was right – my own actions are unlikely to threaten anyone else in my community, in the way that my actions might if flouting the rules in a pandemic.
I wouldn’t say I am a Climate sceptic, but nor am I an uncritical adherent. In the main I do feel I have to accept what scientists tell me about anthropogenic climate change because I simply don’t have enough knowledge or evidence to challenge subject matter experts.
But I must admit I’m wary of the level of zealotry surrounding the topic and the hounding of any scientist who dares to challenge the consensus. Careers are ruined just by voicing doubt. Scientists as eminent and respected as Freeman Dyson (though, granted, his specialism was not related to Climate) are not immune from vilification. Use Dyson’s name among Climate-zealots and they will immediately condemn him as a kook, a crank and a heretic. Being a Nobel Laureate still offers no cover to anyone who dares challenge the Climate orthodoxy – even if that challenge is one of expressed doubt, rather than denial.
Surely, regardless of the discipline, regardless of the specifics of the topic, the whole idea of “Consensus” in antithetical to the advancement of science – in any field. So to have the media hysterically manning the barricades and shouting “SCIENTIFIC CONSENSUS” as though that should shut down the debate does give me pause. Why would they do it?
In that regard they are very similar to the Leftists for whom all doubt and all debate must be silenced. The easiest way to prevent your argument from being examined, its flaws exposed to ridicule, is to prevent any discussion of it in the first place. The easiest way to elevate yourself among the woke is to tear down those who would dare question your argument.
Those who seek elevation, who vie for greater woke status, compete with fellow adherents to identify and criticise (what reasonable people would see as) vanishingly trivial offenses. You can spend years going along with the progressive/woke herd, but the minute you fall out of lock-step with them on a single contentious issue you will be turned on. Previous adherence to orthodoxy is no defence once you’ve been accused of heresy.
Consensus is the business of politics – it has nothing whatsoever to do with Science. On the contrary, the greatest scientists in history are great precisely because they broke with the consensus. Science can be advanced when a single scientist – working against the current understanding – happens to be right, which means that he or she has results that are verifiable by reference to the real world.
In science, consensus is irrelevant. What is relevant is reproducible results. So why this insistence that ‘consensus’ trumps every other argument?
Freeman Dyson dared to doubt the climate models used to forecast what will happen as we continue to pump CO2 into the atmosphere. He suggested they were unreliable – causing an avalanche of criticism.
But most of what he said was incontestable – namely that if the models are unreliable then the projections they produce will also be unreliable.
As I say, I don’t know half enough about the data to challenge the consensus view – but I am suspicious of the undue weight the media gives to the notion of that consensus and the immediate vilification of any scientist who dares challenge it.
Besides – the gigantic industry surrounding Climate change does have a vested interest in ratcheting up the hyperbole. The more extreme the statistics the more sensational the story, the easier it is to extend the funding for your grant.
I probably have a slightly innate contrarian streak in me, it is just the way I work. My instinct is to be sceptical. It thus seems strange to me that the very communities who should value scepticism the most – namely the scientific community and the media – have closed ranks against any of their number who dare challenge the consensus and seek to ruin them.
It is that, rather than any climate data per se, that piques my suspicion. It is the very insistence that none of us, the uninitiated, are allowed to question this new priesthood, who’ve swapped ecclesiastical robes for lab coats, and speak as though they have God-given right on their side.

Last edited 2 years ago by Paddy Taylor
Rasmus Fogh
Rasmus Fogh
2 years ago
Reply to  Paddy Taylor

That is all pretty reasonable. But it is not the case that.

the whole idea of “Consensus” in antithetical to the advancement of science – in any field.

Sure, you have to give space to new and heretical ideas – otherwise you can never get out of your current consensus into something that might be better. But you also have to settle on what your current data show about the world – which is what the consensus does. Otherwise, what are you advancing to? You will never have a result you can use for anything, just a lot of people who disagree loudly and no way of choosing whom to follow. After all, most new and heretical ideas are wrong – there are thousands of cranks for every Galileo.
Anyway, when there are few data and little consistent understanding the tolerance for heretics is higher – I am pretty sure that Dysons track record would have granted him a respectful hearing at the start of the global warming research. But at some point, as you get more and more consistent data and build what looks like a good understanding, the requirements get higher. You can still challenge the consensus, but you need data, calculations, an alternative theory, certainly something more than your own intuition and your doubts. If this was about something arcane – the mistresses of Ramses II or intelligent life on Betelgeuse – unsupported doubters would just be ignored. But on a question of immense practical importance – do we reorganise the entire world production system, and if not, do we risk an imminent catastrophe – someone who lends his considerable prestige to undermining the consensus without valid arguments to justify it should not be surprised if he gets a reaction.

As for the ‘giant industries that surround Climate change’ they and their influence are real enough. But surely it pales in front of the incumbents – the even more giant industries that produce fossil fuels, petrol-driven cars, planes, meat, all of whom were rich and in place long before anybody tried to make solar panels for commercial profit. Not to mention the immense inertia of people who do not want to change their ways and would strongly prefer to think that they do not have to.

Last edited 2 years ago by Rasmus Fogh
Paddy Taylor
Paddy Taylor
2 years ago
Reply to  Rasmus Fogh

I take your point on a settled understanding – but my critique of the idea of “scientific consensus” is that it is used to shut down debate – whether questioning climate change, lockdown, the efficacy of masks, vaccines or whatever.
But on the line you quoted, “the whole idea of “Consensus” in antithetical to the advancement of science – in any field” I think that holds up in the context.
If the idea of consensus is used to stop any challenge to the current, settled scientific understanding of a topic, then that is antithetical to advancement.
When you say, “I am pretty sure that Dysons track record would have granted him a respectful hearing at the start of the global warming research. But at some point, as you get more and more consistent data and build what looks like a good understanding, the requirements get higher. You can still challenge the consensus, but you need data, calculations, an alternative theory, certainly something more than your own intuition and your doubts“, he was challenging a small part of the data – that of the extent to which CO2 drives the climate change, and made the point that if the current understanding was out by just a tiny amount then it threw the accuracy of the modelling out by considerable and ever growing margins. For having the nerve to question the high priests of climate science, his reputation was traduced.

Rasmus Fogh
Rasmus Fogh
2 years ago
Reply to  Paddy Taylor

Well, it is a hard one. There is of course a lot of incentive to use whatever arguments let you win, and dismissing people as out of order could happen whether it was correct or not. Still, they sometimes are. My guess would be that what they saw as a systematic campaign in bad faith to rubbish their results probably tempted the climate scientists to play hardball just like their adversaries did.
I have not followed the climate debate, or Dysons particular contribution, so I cannot speak to that. But the extent to which CO2 drives the climate change is not ‘a small part of the data’ (indeed it is not data at all) – it is the main question in the entire field. From what you are saying, it sounds like he was claiming that the modelling was so uncertain that it could get any result you would like with a tiny change, so that the entire modelling effort was essentially rubbish. Modelling accuracy and overfitting is a problem wherever you model, and I believe climate scientists area ware of that too. In some fields and for some models such accusations are indeed true, so it can be a valid criticism. But if you are essentially dismissing an entire field as useless you need some evidence of ‘model insufficiency’ to back your claim, and I do not know what Dyson had to offer there.
Nathan Silver’s ‘The signal and the noise’), gives an interesting (and fairly balanced) account. Modeling a complex system like the climate is (to put it mildly) challenging, and the temperature record is not as good as you would wish. But climate change has some advantages that you would not find in economics. We know that humans have emitted very large quantities of CO2 over the last 100 years, we have measured how the CO2 concentration has increased notably, and we know from basic physics that increased CO2 (and some other gases) will heat up the planet. The hard part is calculating how the earth system will react to this change. But even here much of the relevant physics is well understood, and calibrated through the continuously testing and improving of weather forecasts. All of which gives some independent backing to the last 40 (!) years of attempts at climate prediction.

Don Butler
Don Butler
2 years ago

Once in a while, a piece of writing comes along that crystalizes one’s heretofore vague thinking on a subject. This is such a piece and I am grateful for it. Very important stuff. Thank you, Unheard and Matthew Crawford.

Jake Jackson
Jake Jackson
2 years ago

There is no such thing as a “scientist.” What exists is the scientific method, a style of thinking about the natural world based on hypothesis, observation, and independent challenge and replication. The idea that only a “scientist” can be involved in “science” is nonsense.

There are occupational specialties that draw more heavy upon science than others, but the reality is that science is woven into the cultural fabric of the West. Another reality is that “scientists” — people in various engineering occupations of one sort or another — are no less political than anyone else.

Jane In Toronto
Jane In Toronto
2 years ago

I object to the opinion that the development of mRNA vaccines “ought to give pause to the political reflex to demonise pharmaceutical companies”. Covid vaccines are an appalling fairy tale, and the most unethical behaviour imaginable. The vast majority sail through Covid, and many, such as children, flick it off with non-specific “T-cell-based” immunity. Forcing a gene therapy on all these people who have no need of it is either pure evil or “lethal incompetence”. When so many have natural immunity, the problem is not the virus, it is the host. All that research should have been into non-profit assays of blood, etc. for nutrients, microbiota, Rx drug usage, whatever, comparing the thriving with the dying, to see what differences produced robust immunity. The vaccines are not even working in those with poor immune systems, the main victims. The sly pharma companies are blaming variants, so they can justify 4 shots a year.

Kremlington Swan
Kremlington Swan
2 years ago

Truth-seeking has been replaced by a perceived need to establish the dominant narrative.
Does that mean science has become religion?
No, but it does mean scientific organisations have become churches.

But, then again, yes – as far as most people are concerned the finding of ‘science’ are irrefutable, and are accepted on trust.
This makes the declarations of science identical with Papal edict as far as most people are concerned, and so complete is the belief that people will round on those who question this science.
But my problem is not with people who simply can’t exercise their own judgement when presented with ‘the science’, it is with politicians who use this ‘science’ as part of a programme of manipulation.

All over the world, in my view, politicians have had one principal concern: to make sure they are still in office, or at least not dangling from the nearest lamp post, when all this is over.

And they will do anything to ensure their survival. They will pretend the science is the science and there is no arguing with it, even though it is apparent to even superficial observation that governments select the science that suits them. Even if it is bad science. Even if it is easily undermined.

Politicians need to be seen to be coping, to be in charge, to be handling things. The one thing they are good at is looking and sounding like they know what they are doing. Later on, once they have left office, the public may realise they didn’t know anything after all. But by then it is too late – they no longer have seats to lose.

Paul Hayes
Paul Hayes
2 years ago

Acceptance of such a bargain would seem to depend entirely on the gravity of the threat. There is surely some point of hazard beyond which liberal principles become an unaffordable luxury. Covid is indeed a very serious illness, with an infection fatality rate about ten times higher than that of the flu: roughly one percent of all those who are infected die. Also, however, unlike the flu this mortality rate is so skewed by age and other risk factors, varying by more than a thousand-fold from the very young to the very old, that the aggregate figure of one percent can be misleading. As of November 2020, the average age of those killed by Covid in Britain was 82.4 years old.

That average age is also an aggregate (and contextual) figure. For a proper consideration of the gravity of the threat see here and here. More generally, lockdown’s the temporary bargain we accepted, in the absence of less liberty-infringing alternatives, to prevent Covid doing much more damage. Personally, I find the idea that it heralds a slide towards despotism rather silly.

Tony Barry
Tony Barry
2 years ago

Excellent article, really sums up all the issues that the controlling technocracy has teamed up with government wanting to appear “caring” and a media looking to generate fear and hype, to cast aside centuries of established behaviour to suit their own purposes.

One key point though, John Ionaddis one of the worlds leading epidemiologists estimates Covid 19 IFR at around 0.15%. Typically less than flu. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33768536/ though clearly Covid has been much more infectious.

Rasmus Fogh
Rasmus Fogh
2 years ago
Reply to  Tony Barry

John Ionaddis published his estimate in May 2020, when there were barely a couple of months’ data to work on. There are a lot more data now. Johan Giesicke, the Swedish epidemiologist whose first estimate was an IFR of down to 0.1%, now accepts (in his interview with Unherd) that the values for European countries are in the range 0.5-0.9%. Quoting only one selected point from a number of divergent estimates is playing fast and loose. Quoting one selected outdated data point is really not good enough.

Michael Coleman
Michael Coleman
2 years ago
Reply to  Rasmus Fogh

Thank you. Ionaddis, who rightly gained notoriety for pointing out that most scientific papers report findings that can’t be reproduced, seems to have fallen into that trap with CV19

Rasmus Fogh
Rasmus Fogh
2 years ago

AFAIK it was a perfectly reasonable estimate when he made it, based on the data he had at the time. With more time, data, and contributions, it just turned out to be off the mark.

Rasmus Fogh
Rasmus Fogh
2 years ago
Reply to  Rasmus Fogh

It may not have been off the mark after all – see my comment below. But the whole business is way more complicated than this.

Lesley van Reenen
Lesley van Reenen
2 years ago
Reply to  Rasmus Fogh

I think he should reflect IFR as a whole, not just Europe.

Elaine Giedrys-Leeper
Elaine Giedrys-Leeper
2 years ago

The IFR for Covid 19 is a moving feast – it depends how many people are infected, (always supposing you can work this out) and the accuracy of your mortality figures ; it depends on the age and co morbidities of the cohort you are looking at; it depends on where you are in the pandemic; it depends on the adequacy of your healthcare system etc.etc.
Just to provide a lovely graphical description of the variations inherent in this statistic I commend to you the Forest plots in this paper :
A systematic review and meta-analysis of published research data on COVID-19 infection-fatality rates Int J Infect. Dis. Meyerowitz-Katz
Overall, from 24 very heterogeneous studies (worldwide) the authors calculated an overall IFR of 0.68% (0.53%–0.82%) with a totaltotal range of 0.17% to 1.7%.
Anther systematic review gives a range of  0.1 – 15% – just to show how useless this statistic is and how one careful has to be when quoting statistis of any sort – as ever, context is everything and uncertainty rules and that is OK.

Daniel Shaw
Daniel Shaw
2 years ago
Reply to  Rasmus Fogh

Wrong. The 0.15% IFR comes from this paper: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1111/eci.13554
Published in 14 March 2021 it is an analysis of the latest global seroprevalence data and revised down his September 2020 IFR estimate of 0.23%.

Rasmus Fogh
Rasmus Fogh
2 years ago
Reply to  Daniel Shaw

Thanks – that was a very illuminating paper. And (unlike the link from Tony Barry) It was up to date. I maintain that quoting one selected, outdated paper is not good enough. This is clearly reliable and puts the discussion on a new level.

If I wanted to play whack-a-quote I would point out that the same Ioannides paper gives the IFR in Europe as twice his headline figure. Our policy choices depend on the IFR here, not in Sri Lanka. I could also note that the numbers you get seem to depend quite heavily on how you estimate the cases and fatalities you did *not* measure. Which Ioannides is sure to have done professionally, but which is bound to introduce a fair amount of uncertainty. But what you can really take from this paper is that a single, overall, IFR number is an extremely rough approximation. The fatality rate depends extremely heavily on age, health, social circumstances,ethnicity (?), and the quality of treatment (which varies from place to place and improves over time). A single number cannot properly represent all this diversity.

A year ago it made sense to plug a single IFR into your models and estimate the number of deaths – since this was anyway the best you could do. Choosing that number fed directly into the number of expected deaths in various scenarios, and the right choice could sensibly be debated – even by amateurs such as myself and Tony Barry. And the right number would be the one that happened to predict the number of deaths in the UK, not a population-weighted average of sick Italians, UK nursing home inhabitants, and young healthy Indians – even if that is arguably more meaningful scientifically. Where we are now, we would have to accept that useful death predictions can only be done by professionals, and that it is therefore not sensible for us to whack each other with opposing quotes on IFR rates.

Last edited 2 years ago by Rasmus Fogh
Eva Rostova
Eva Rostova
2 years ago
Reply to  Tony Barry

Excellent cherry picking there, Tony.
The vast majority of tenured epidemiologists at leading universities say IFR is closer to 1%, yet for some reason you pick outlier Ioanaddis as the authoritative source.
As one of the world’s top statisticians, Professor Sir David Spiegelhalter of Cambridge and the Royal Statistical Society, stated in September on the basis of the data available at that time:

The true infection fatality rate remains contested, with one review claiming a global rate of 1.04%,9 while another has claimed a range from 0.02% to 0.4%.10 In July, the MRC Biostatistics Unit estimated updated infection fatality rates for the UK (fig 2, bottom).11 These correspond to an overall rate of 1.3% (1.1% to 1.5%), rather more than the early estimates from March, and also show a steeper gradient than the background risk, increasing at 12.8% per additional year of age, precisely that observed for the population fatality rates (fig 1). This steeper gradient suggests that the additional risk from being infected is rather more than the normal annual risk for those over 55, and rather less than the annual risk for those under 55.

https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3259

Last edited 2 years ago by Eva Rostova
Terry M
Terry M
2 years ago

“One of the most striking features of the present, for anyone alert to politics, is that we are increasingly governed through the device of panics that give every appearance of being contrived to generate acquiescence in a public that has grown skeptical of institutions built on claims of expertise.”
“The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by an endless series of hobgoblins, most of them imaginary.” ― H.L. Mencken, On Defense of Women, 1918
What’s old is new again. We can only add that the media share the same incentives as the politicians – more eyeballs, more money.

Russ Littler
Russ Littler
2 years ago

I have yet to see a single shred of so-called, “science” behind anything Boris, Hancock, Witty, Valance,and Ferguson have put out to the public. Not one single claim stands up to scientific scrutiny. This is the greatest crime ever committed on mankind.
PS (Why would this comment need your approval before posting? Have you an agenda to push?)

Last edited 2 years ago by Russ Littler
Giles Chance
Giles Chance
2 years ago

Don’t forget the science that created the vaccines – Pfizer, AZ, and the others – which are saving our economies and livelihoods, as well as our lives. The only sustainable form of authority is moral authority, of the kind that the Queen exercises. Political authority is built on weak foundations, as many Presidents and Prime Ministers have discovered, and scientific authority will also pass, because scientists make lots of mistakes (viz. Neil Ferguson). Only moral authority lasts, because it is based on the important human qualities of truth, justice and kindness.

mottershead62
mottershead62
2 years ago

Crawford is a very important philosopher. A man with values but without extremes.

tyche g
tyche g
2 years ago

The issue of lives saved versus the economy in the pandemic is a continually overly well-worked question. Maybe practical politics is actually a more intersting point?

An experiment is being conducted in India to see what the (Indian) electorate will tolerate. No lockdown, people dying in hospital carparks. Will Modi suffer? Would it have been different in the UK?

It will not be clear cut, of course, but nevertheless may inform arm-chair politicians’ views of “obvious” courses of action.

Prashant Kotak
Prashant Kotak
2 years ago

I agree with everything the author is saying about the corruption of science via politics, corporatism, money, getting sucked into culture wars, etc.

And yet. There has always existed, and still exists, a way out. In fact, the opportunity available today to break out of all the corrupting factors is greater and more widely available than ever (if you are good enough to take it of course). Let me try and explain all that.

In 1905, Einstein published his series of papers that ignited the nuclear age. From that standing start (there were no incremental developments prior to put even the possibility of nukes in the imagination of anyone before that), in under four decades, the US had a working A-bomb. There are a number of implied lines about the nature of future developments from this story, too complicated to discuss in detail here, that people are simply ignoring, even if they have an inkling about them. The shocking thing is that Einstein, prior to his fame, was essentially a lone individual, no super-stellar academic background, no high tech labs, no huge teams of high quality colleagues, no access to the endless corporate money-well – who produced his masterwork as a pure construction of symbols, working in his spare time.

People outside tech don’t fully understand this, but programming creates *precisely* the same opportunity, to create your own reality (in fact game developers do literally that). Of course the same opportunity is available to national military establishments and to corporations and so on – in spades. But the opportunity exists for individuals and small collaborations, regardless of gender, nation or creed – big corporate science, the politics, culture stuff etc can *all* be completely bypassed (in the first instance). Because whoever creates the next set of algorithmic biggies, be they in natural language processing, or AI/ML, or artificial life, or genetic modelling, etc, will be directly plugged into the core infrastructure of the entire globe via the internet.

Last edited 2 years ago by Prashant Kotak
Peter Mott
Peter Mott
2 years ago

As I write Manchester Utd v. Liverpool has been postponed owing to to protests by Man. U fans against the Glazer family (US) owners of the club. This has been simmering for years – it really bugs fans that their club was stolen from them by US Capital (as they see it).
Yet when the match is finally replayed the players will “take a knee” against racism, and on the TV the phrase “No room for racism” will be screened ten or twenty time during the game.
Again it looks as if a campaign against racism – a moral issue – is being recruited by a financial elite to distract people from what really disturbs them.
This is perhaps oblique to the writer’s concerns, yet seems to me relevant to them.

Last edited 2 years ago by Peter Mott
ga v
ga v
2 years ago

A very nice article. Thank You.
“… the underlying truth-motive of science.”
“… on one side, science with its devotion to truth.”
It is too bad about science. The lack of trust is surely earned. 
Institutional enthusiasts of the modern reductionist science that you write about have been running a campaign of deliberate deception against well-documented scientific truth (empirically-warranted belief) for well over half a century — aggressively demonizing any and all heretics and laypersons at every turn. And to any reasonable scale one wishes to view the situation, they have been entirely successful in their pursuit.
In the 1940’s the polymath John Von Neumann famously gave a series of well-attended lectures on the topic of self-reproducing automata. In those lectures (largely heralded as the modern origin of AI) Von Neumann predicted that a system of rate-independent symbols and non-integrable constraints (language structure) would be fundamentally required for any self-reproducing system that is physically capable of open-ended evolution. He built this prediction on logic, physics, and on Alan Turing 1930’s work on the programmable Turing Machine and computation (although the intellectual pedigree can easily be extended back to others like Charles Sanders Peirce and his work on symbol systems in the 1860s). Von Neumann’s predictions were then spectacularly confirmed via experiment by Crick, Brenner, Zamecnik, Hoagland, Nirenberg, and others). One by one, every single object required to confirm the prediction was discovered and documented in the science literature in the 1950’s and 1960’s. They are not even controversial. Nobel awards were handed out. And since that time, the entire system has been carefully re-described in the literature using the language of physics — with the additional kicker that not only is the system uniquely identifiable among all other physical systems known to science, but the only other place in the cosmos that such a system has been found is in human language and mathematics (i.e. two unambiguous correlates of intelligence).
That’s right. We live in a world were modern science has confirmed via experiment the fundamental fact that biology is the product of a semantically-closed symbol system and a language structure, yet just look at the treatment handed out to those who would even speak of the dreaded and career-ending “d” word. 
Everything I just wrote is easily corroborated in the literature. The science and history (much less the physical requirements themselves) are not going away. And the sweet cherry on top? Not a single mainstream origin-of-life researcher on the planet even mentions any of it. Look them up. Szostak, Joyce, Lincoln, Sutherland, Yarus, etc. Read their work. The physical requirements (predicted and confirmed to be critical to their project) are not even discussed by the leaders of the discipline. How’s that for authority?
So much for the idealistic “truth-motive” of science.
EDIT: Meanwhile, we get literally injected with encoded information in the form of an mRNA script to build the Covid spike protein. Hello?

Last edited 2 years ago by ga v
Prashant Kotak
Prashant Kotak
2 years ago
Reply to  ga v

What is the dreaded “d” word then?
There are not many people, even comp sci, who know about von Neumann’s reproduction proof, created in a cellular state space of 29-state cells, where he tied both a Universal Turing Machine and a Universal Constructor together, to demonstrate in effect a (paper) coded proof of complex reproduction – but I know exactly what you are taking about, because I have a long term interest in cellular automata – to the point of actually writing code to illustrate the concepts. As you say, von Neumann’s construction had direct parallels to biological replication mechanisms – with entities that carry out the functions of DNA, RNA, etc, as were discovered by Watson/Crick and others who deciphered DNA mechanisms very shortly after. Von Neumann also showed how such machines can create machines more complex than themselves – in effect an evolutionary mechanism. What I am confused by is your terminology in terms of ” semantically-closed symbol system and a language structure” – I don’t understand how that fits into your argument (which I’m also not fully clear about although I kind of get the gist). I know the literature around von Neumann’s construction quite well and I have not come across that terminology.
Can you clarify a bit more what your argument is please?

Last edited 2 years ago by Prashant Kotak
Prashant Kotak
Prashant Kotak
2 years ago
Reply to  ga v

Ok, I think I now might know what you mean by “semantically-closed symbol system and a language structure” – you are referring to structures that encode their own architecture within themselves (self encoding recursion in effect), but instead of using the terminology of state machines in electronics terms (logic gates) which I am more familiar with, you are using the terminology used to define the deterministic finite state automata of computer languages (essentially compiler theory) – and I can see the two are equivalent. I did *not* expect anyone to put forward essentially a conspiracy theory to the effect we are being injected with human genome altering material via the vaccines – please correct me if I misunderstood your point – based on anything this computationally technical on UnHerd – and not many outside high end comp sci or genetics would have the necessary knowledge to be able to make such an argument.
What is your background if I may ask?

Last edited 2 years ago by Prashant Kotak
ga v
ga v
2 years ago
Reply to  Prashant Kotak

Hello PK, I am just now seeing your comments – thank you for the response. I will respond only to your first comment, because frankly, I have no idea what to make of your second.

”Can you clarify a bit more what your argument is please?”

Sure, but I would like to say upfront that I am interested in the physical basis of the issues at hand. I would also say that this response will necessarily be abbreviated, even though it might not appear to be so.
The proximate cause of biological organization is specification. In other words, biological objects exist as they do because they are specified among alternatives (i.e. the gene system). Yet anyone who has ever seen a Periodic Table knows that there is no “stands for” relation measured in the physical properties of atomic matter, and forming compounds from those atoms does not suddenly endow matter with this foreign capacity. These are non-controversial observations, and they prompt the fair question “how then can anything be specified?” Persons such as Charles Sanders Peirce resolved that question in the mid-1800’s when he wrote about a process (which he termed “Signification”). He promoted the logic of a necessary “triadic relationship” between a) a sign, b) a referent, and c) a separate and independent “interpretant” to establish the relation between a sign and its referent (a relationship that otherwise would not exist, i.e. the Periodic Table). His observations have no counter-examples recorded in science.
The long and short of it is this — to freely specify something in our material universe requires two physical objects; one object to serve as a symbol vehicle (sign, signifier) and another object to establish what is being specified. This Peircean logic was exemplified (70+ years later, at the dawn of the Information Age) in the work of Alan Turing, who envisioned a programmable symbol-processing machine. Turing’s Machine was based on a tape that could contain a sequence of symbols, a read/write head, and a table of actions the machine would undertake depending on the individual symbol being read. The connection to Peirce’s triadic relationship becomes obvious, i.e. Turing told his machine how to interpret the symbols on the tape. In other words, Turing’s table of actions (transformations) was a critical part of the system because whatever material the symbols might be made of (in any physical instatiation of the machine), they wouldn’t by themselves represent or specify anything at all. In truth, the logical manipulation of symbols and their interpretations was the whole point of the machine.   
Von Neumann then used this formal system to predict the fundamental requirements of a description-based self-replicator capable of open-ended evolution. That prediction was then wholly confirmed via experiment, and was later described in the physics literature, fully detailing the material requirements of such a physical system. Among those physical requirements are things such as the “rate-independence” of the medium (DNA is in fact a rate-independent medium, where the physical properties of the medium do not determine the sequence of its nucleotides). Another physical requirement is the “discontinuous association” between symbol and referent (i.e. in the gene system the association of the codon-to-anticodon is temporally and spatially independent of the anticodon-to-amino acid association). Another requirement is “semantic closure”, which you’ve asked about in your comment. Semantic closure is a state of simultaneous coordination in the system that must obtain in order for the system to begin to function. This is a matter of successful self-reference; the system must successfully describe the rules of its interpretation, while relying on those rules in its description. To grasp the issue, you can consider the aaRS molecules in the gene system.
The 20 aaRS (aminoacyl synthetase) are the complex proteins in biology that actually set the genetic code. There is one aaRS for each of the 20 amino acids that the gene system must specify in order to describe earthly lifeforms. You can easily imagine their critical importance to the system. The aaRS are synthesized from memory, and clearly there was once a time in earth’s history when no aaRS had ever been synthesized from memory. You can now ask yourself a question; at the point in earth’s history when the first ever aaRS was successfully synthesized from memory, how many of the other aaRS had to be in place? If you happen to be an Origin of Life researcher who demands a reductionist ideology, these are the types of physical requirements that are to be ignored. And thus, they are ignored. 
So the argument is clear. It is clear and it is based directly on recorded scientific history and documented experimental result. Life on Earth is the product of an encoded symbol system that is uniquely identifiable among all other physical systems; one that is described nowhere else in the history of science —  except in human language and mathematics (two universal correlates of intelligence).
= = = = = = = = = = =
As for your second comment, I can’t make heads or tails of it.
Conspiracy? The mRNA vaccine does not alter our genome. It delivers an information script to build the Covid spike protein, so that our bodies can establish a level of immunity to it, It is a remarkable project.
My point is that we are literally being injected with encoded information (a universal correlate of intelligence) while simultaneously being told there is no evidence of design in biology. It is incoherent.
BTW, if you care to read more of the physics involved, I would suggest the work of eminent physicist Howard Pattee, who is a follower of Von Neumann and wrote about the subject over five decades. His papers are widely available online, and “The Physics of Symbol Systems: Bridging the Epistemic Cut” is a good place to start.

Last edited 2 years ago by ga v
Prashant Kotak
Prashant Kotak
2 years ago
Reply to  ga v

g av, thank you for the comprehensive response. First, I can see I got the wrong end of the stick re your argument, so I apologise for that. mRNA vaccines are indeed remarkable and your are right, they deliver, in effect, a code snippet to create proteins, partially mimicking what viruses themselves do when they hijack the replication factory inside cells to create further viruses. Alongside emerging genetic scissors tech like CRISPR-Cas9 and Prime, this variety of biotech is likely set to completely alter what humanity itself is in short order (significantly less than half a century I feel), but that is a debate for another day. My interest in cellular automata is from a comp sci/state machines perspective, Conway ‘Game of Life’, genetic algorithms etc. I learnt about the work of Turing and von Neumann initially through the books of M Minsky and others in the early eighties, and then a few years later came across von Neumann’s complex reproduction proof and it’s direct parallels to genetic mechanisms – one of the most astonishing pieces of work in the history of science, although it is largely unknown even to academicians let alone the general public. Ever since I understood what a von Neumann type Universal Constructor does, I have been trying to piece together an understanding of how Turing Complete cellular automata link to biological/genetic phenomena from a coding perspective. I also grapple with the fact that all algorithmically generated phenomena, like cellular automata universes, are completely deterministic, and that has some disconcerting implications, if biological phenomena are also generated by the same type of mechanisms. I don’t approach this topic from a physics/complex systems perspective, largely because I don’t have the maths for it. As such I was not aware of the work of H H Pattee (if I ever came across it I didn’t understand it at the time so would have ignored it). I have now downloaded and am reading through “The physics of symbols: Bridging the epistemic cut” and it is already putting forward a remarkable thesis, so thank you for pointing me to Pattee’s work. I am also finally beginning to understand what you are saying in your two posts, re the ideas of hysteresis in evolutionary phenomena and the necessity of design in life phenomena. The parallel I can already see is with the “Garden of Eden” start configurations in cellular automata – seed configurations from which different universes stem. I need to digest these concepts, before I can come to some conclusions.

ga v
ga v
2 years ago
Reply to  Prashant Kotak

Hello again PK. Thank you for your comments. As I read through them, I took note of your interests and history with these issues. If indeed I do grasp your history a bit, then I would suspect that as you read Pattee you will have bombs going off in your head and a smile on your face. You may very well be a man walking in his footsteps. Just for the joy of discovery, I’d like to think that is the case. And if it is the case, then I have good news for you — with 50 years of writing on tap, you have truly (remarkably) good sailing ahead.
My own history is a bit different. About 15 or so years ago I wanted (out of sheer personal curiosity) to get a handle on what exactly the current score was in this age-old question “How did we get here?” So I started reading about the origin of life. Along the way I noticed that I kept seeing references to Howard Pattee’s papers, and eventually downloaded the same paper I suggested above. At the time, I felt I had no real chance of understanding what I was reading, so I set it aside, and kept reading elsewhere. When I came back to it a couple of years later, the light suddenly came on. I eventually contacted Dr Pattee to thank him for his work, and asked if I might send him a paragraph or two to explain my understanding. He politely agreed, and I waited on pins and needles. HIs reply was that he preferred to use the language of physics, but then, most graciously, he used my own terms to tell me I had indeed grasped the issues. My direction was rather set in stone at that point, and I set out to read a good number of other Pattee papers, several of his former students as well, and many others related to the topic. It has been quite a journey.
In my mind Pattee is bit of a giant — a careful giant; a true scientist in the most honorable sense of the word. As you suggest of von Neumann’s predictions being largely unknown in the greater public, I think both he and Pattee (and others) are a lost gift. In a way, they are a gift that has been somewhat taken from the public square by an unfortunate imposition of ideology. I hope that is corrected someday, but I suspect that will likely never be the case. Their contributions remain either way.
Again, thank you for your comments.

Last edited 2 years ago by ga v
Pavnutty Tchebycheff
Pavnutty Tchebycheff
2 years ago

Excellent article.
However, the author makes quotes a wildly incorrect number for Covid IFR, which deserves a correction.

“ Covid is indeed a very serious illness, with an infection fatality rate about ten times higher than that of the flu: roughly one percent of all those who are infected die. ”

Covid IFR is between 0.1-0.2% as per CDC data and peer reviewed research. It is not a serious illness for people below the age of 75, again as per CDC data.

Paul Hayes
Paul Hayes
2 years ago

Covid IFR is between 0.1-0.2% as per CDC data and peer reviewed research. It is not a serious illness for people below the age of 75, again as per CDC data.

Not true. See here and here.

David Barnett
David Barnett
2 years ago

Well observed. I would go further. What distinguishes science from religion (and all other authority-based models of epistemology) is that science does not posit “truth”. Instead, science maps falsehood.
“Truth” lies somewhere in the regions not yet mapped as false by scientific explorers. Sometimes that not-yet-false region is so astonishingly narrow (as in some areas of Quantum Electrodynamics [QED]) that the region itself can be mistaken for the whole truth.
What one can say is that any politician-scientist who claims to be speaking with the authority of “truth” has ceased to deserve the title “scientist” and, worse, is tarred with all the most negative connotations of “politician”.

Rasmus Fogh
Rasmus Fogh
2 years ago
Reply to  David Barnett

That is one view of science (Popperian?). Bayesian reasoning is in many ways similar, but 1) deals in probabilities, not absolute true/false distinctions, and 2) supports the idea that old tested ideas are a lot more probable (and reliable) than new untested ideas – even if they are both equally ‘not-yet-false. I think the Bayesaun view (which does allow you to talk about ‘truth’, even if it translates as ‘highly probable’) is likely to be better, particularly for normal discussion like this one.

Paul Hayes
Paul Hayes
2 years ago
Reply to  David Barnett

Science posits neither truth nor falsity. To do one is to do the other; to deem a proposition false is to deem its negation true. It’s best viewed as mapping the relative plausibilities of (and uncertainties in) propositions, and the fidelities of models such as QED.

Andre Lower
Andre Lower
2 years ago

A head-spinning mess of an article, mixing-up valid concerns (e g. business/financial pressures biasing research) with shameless forgivance of the throngs of ignorant people that mistake democracy with an entitlement to speak about matters they are unprepared to comprehend.
As pointed out by someone, an educated man has a glimpse of just how much he does not know. Not the case with ignorant people armed with social media access and a mistaken perception of entitlement to a “scientific opinion”. We’re all going to pay for this.

Stephen Lawrence
Stephen Lawrence
2 years ago

Did anyone read and critique the article by William A. Wilson about “Replication failure” (firstthings.com) that he quoted? It started with a probability thought-experiment which I thought was basically flawed, and then linked the performance of the machine in the experiment (a diamond detector) and his statistical argument with the performance of a human group. Since I agreed neither with the argument or its application, it did not give confidence to read the rest of the v. long article. But I don’t know what relevance the whole article might have? Did anyone read it? Now to get back to the original article (this one)…

Karen Jemmett
Karen Jemmett
2 years ago

The critical sentence for me was: “The spectacular success of “public health” in generating fearful acquiescence in the population during the pandemic has created a rush to take every technocratic-progressive project that would have poor chances if pursued democratically, and cast it as a response to some existential threat.” Surely, there’s a watershed moment near the beginning of every century when the state machinery capitalises on a major crisis in order to push through a more progressive policy stance? Some might argue convincingly that it would be a missed opportunity not to do so… it’s not as if the worn out Post-War Settlement and it’s reliance on crude forms of social planning is entirely immune from moral condemnation, is it? And yet democrats in the West have readily gone along with that in the name of progress. When exactly do we draw the line and say scientism is undemocratic? The problem is modern democracies invariably find it hard to reform and modernise themselves without a mighty upheaval of some kind… let’s hope Covid has taught us an important lesson?

Stephen Lawrence
Stephen Lawrence
2 years ago

Interesting phenomenon, that there is one group who find this article brilliant, and are fired up about it, who gain energy by reading it. And another group, who finds it very hard work, and wish it could be rewritten to deliver quicker. It is difficult, however, to write about something which is essentially not happening (‘institutions are hampered by a moral climate’, etc) and therefore to provide concrete examples of, and which must be written in an oblique style. Which is exhausting. Unless your mind is on the same page, when it becomes exhilerating.
Perhaps what we need is some form of scientific democracy, whereby we could take a secret ballot on various issues? I think what is described in the artcile has basically been going on for 2 centuries, but is highlighted now, given the Internet, and the involvement of new layers, of SocMed, of celebrities.

Last edited 2 years ago by Stephen Lawrence
Ian Campbell
Ian Campbell
2 years ago

A wise man recently said “the enemy of Science is The Science”.
He was right. And very obviously so. It should be written on every street corner – in particular on the walls of all government and large corporate’s offices. Then imprinted above the doorways of all academic lecture theatres.

Victoria Chandler
Victoria Chandler
2 years ago

Very good article. My response to people who tell me to ‘trust the science’ is this: I have no problem with Science – I love Science – but I have a huge problem with scientists who have an agenda. Your closing paragraph is a great summary of how I have felt for a long time, on a whole host of issues where the common line of ‘argument’ is that I should ‘trust the science’ or ‘follow the science’.

No Lastname
No Lastname
2 years ago

Brilliant! This is an article we should all read. Please share and advertise. This article should be expanded and written as a book.

Greg Maland
Greg Maland
2 years ago

This is one of the best articles I’ve read in the past 5 years.

Stephen Rose
Stephen Rose
2 years ago

Excellent article, one of the best I have read here. The breadth, humanity, research and communication of complex multiplicity in a direct way, is admirable.
Thank you for the final paragraph, because I was beginning to reach for my revolver!
The mask is dehumanising, we need all the nuances of physical contact with other human beings to learn to tolerate and be tolerated.
Don’t be surprised at the suborning of elites to dominant ideologies, it’s the intelligent dog that can be trained.

Peter J. Yim
Peter J. Yim
2 years ago

In the video (15:10), the author talks about how “…. we are massively indebted to this accomplishment of the pharmaceutical companies (mrna vaccine)”. I think that may be too strong a statement given that the long-term safety/efficacy profiles are still unknown. There are also significant questions about the role Pharma may be playing in public policy to discourage early treatment. This has been fairly obvious in Merck’s disparagement of the use of early treatment of COVID-19 with the generic ivermectin, contrary to the neutral stance of the NIH.

G Harris
G Harris
2 years ago

As well as the obvious power element, it goes to reinforce the old adages that it all ultimately boils down to money and money it is that makes the world go around, both for good and ill.

From politics to science to sport to religion, even education, the mighty moolah is usually somewhere at the bottom of it all, even if it isn’t immediately obvious or logical to the rest of us in our blissful, naive ignorance.

‘The’ science is portrayed as immutable, above reproach and immune to question as if it’s an established, monolithic school of thought that only the mischievously deluded, wilfully dishonest and reckless would ever see fit to question or exploit and yet somehow there remains this weird, yet recurring anomaly that a not insignificant amount of its canon, whatever the field, not only remains stubbornly hard to ever replicate even once, those who might choose to attempt to are actively discouraged at the very first hurdle from ever doing so for fear of upsetting what becomes the academic and financial status quo.

https://www.nature.com/news/1-500-scientists-lift-the-lid-on-reproducibility-1.19970

Simon Brooks
Simon Brooks
2 years ago

A very good article but too long and covering too many bases. There is material here for several articles. To me the most interesting relates to the “corruption” of a science by its being walled in by the ruling elite of that particular discipline. This is not new knowledge; much of it was covered at length by Thomas Kuhn and earlier by Ludwig Fleck; and indeed by many others.
I suspect that this kind of phenomenon characterises many, if not all fields of science. It certainly applies to psychiatry, which is my especial interest. I think it can be demonstrated that this kind of walling in has contributed massively to the failure of psychiatry to produce results in its searching for the causes of mental illnesses.

tyche g
tyche g
2 years ago
Reply to  Simon Brooks

It is not true in physics. Experiments are brutal in falsifying wrong theories. And have a look at the history of the Schon afffair to see how dubious experiments are treated.

Rasmus Fogh
Rasmus Fogh
2 years ago
Reply to  Simon Brooks

I would not call Kuhn ‘knowledge’; that would imply it was true. By my lights it is a theory that explains a number of real phenomena, but cannot explain why science has been so eminently successful. As it manifestly has. Given enough reliable data, I would say that any paradigm can be replaced by a clearly better one. It just takes time.

Simon Brooks
Simon Brooks
2 years ago
Reply to  Rasmus Fogh

How much time and how much reliable data are the questions. I agree that Kuhn and his like have not explained how science is successful when it is, but then, that is not what they set out to do.
There are other problems. If you do not practice according to the accepted paragdigm it may be very difficult to get grants, a hearing, a voice at conferences and the like. This is certainly the case in psychiatry and to some extent in general medicine. You ignore the Kuhn-described phenomena at your peril.

Rasmus Fogh
Rasmus Fogh
2 years ago
Reply to  Simon Brooks

I’d agree with that.

cjhartnett1
cjhartnett1
2 years ago

Oh this is brilliant.
Truly brilliant.
Matthew applies an expert scientific mind in its purest sense, alongside real historical, cultural and philosophical knowledge in application. And all directed at an absolute version of Truth.
It’s only weakness is the glib rejection of a religious, spiritual basis for things
Science perverted is in no way religious . Religion as I know it is foundational to the fact that Truth is absolute and non negotiable. People have free will, are made in God’s image ,and are redeemable only by Truth, as answered in the presence of Pilate.
Religion demands interrogation , and the more you dissect it and aim to falsify, the stronger it becomes. Like any individual scientist like your dad, like Lovelock or Berners Lee? I won’t be told that my religion is now a corporate, bureaucratic and institutional Potemkin ,as your clichés re ” religion ” become cartoons over Galileo from 400 years ago. Rather like me scorning science as an option after Lysenko , Thalidomide or Dacron.
Once you can explain why the Climategate types choose to conspire in a shared Big Lie ,as opposed to find ,reveal the truth ( no matter how embarrassing or costly)? Then the fear of denying, covering up Truth becomes a threat to, later if not sooner? And you do the right thing.
Until then? What true, what is good and what is moral, right are religious issues, not scientific ones.
Your brilliant essay misses this intersecting point in my opinion, but I got so much from it that I know you’re well on the Way as well as seeking the Truth. Your honesty ,integrity and careful analysis is as religious as anything I’ve read this year, if we can somehow evade the inevitably pejorative notion of the Word.

Last edited 2 years ago by cjhartnett1
mike otter
mike otter
2 years ago

Thanks Matthew… considering its potential for power (ie NOT authority) and financial gain its no wonder the likes of Boris Johnson, CCP and Greenies have latched onto “science”. However what they are leveraging for gain is the opposite of science which must remain open to change from tiny increments to paradigm shifts, they are using “technology”. Technology is knowing how to make a panzer tank or do the wierd experiments on prisoners detailed in the song Angel of Death by Slayer. The science that created ballistics can be used to open road links to remote communities and i suppose you could use Zyklon B on a rabbit warren if they were eating all your food or you really hate rabbits. So its not the tool its the user that is at fault. My view is that by creating so many academic positions called “scientists” in western democracies you get a number of unpleaseant unwanted outcomes: Abandonment of the Mertonian norms in favor of individual competition, resulting in large scale data fraud. Obesience to unscientific ideologies like color prejudice (BLM) and messianic catastrophism ( Eco-loonies) prevent “scientists” from using conjecture and refutation to test ideas as The Truth is given top down by the Chosen. Finally and most tellingly the “scientists” retreat into an appeal to authority which i think is very culturally linked to the Judeo – Christian tradition. The idea that something is true because the authorities say so effectively strangles new ideas at source. Its globally prevalent now but the Chinese, Mongolian and Muslim civilisations were built on new ideas supplanting old, as was the Western Enlightenment. I think it makes sense to say that science has only been corrupted for now and that the worldwide ossification of knowledge simply sows the seeds for the new knowledge to come, and the cycle will repeat itself.

Last edited 2 years ago by mike otter
Davy Humerme
Davy Humerme
2 years ago

Thanks Matthew a brilliant and incisive essay. The idea of victim advocates such as GT being used to communicate aggressively and simplistically often nuanced scientific debates, is something we need to be vigilant about. One of the most prominent aspects of this Covid situation is the use of victim advocacy as a battering ram against scepticism. “Look them in the eye” said the UK government advertising when the vaccine roll out made people rebel against petty home lockdown rules. Now with domestic covid beaten the variants are being rolled out again. This is despite no evidence that they are capable of vaccine escape. At present India’s hapless victims, are being used to scare us out of our wanton complacency of seeking to enjoy hospitality and international travel. This is also being used by public health zealots to promote a zero covid strategy. As a behavioural researcher i can see these dark nudges a mile off.

raimund hejduk
raimund hejduk
2 years ago

How on earth do I overturn a jug of water and swirl it around at the same time? Won’t I just get my feet wet?

Last edited 2 years ago by raimund hejduk
zudans
zudans
2 years ago

This may be a perfect example of political corruption of science at the highest level that may have led to sars2 and 3 million deaths and counting:
https://nicholaswade.medium.com/origin-of-covid-following-the-clues-6f03564c038

Last edited 2 years ago by zudans
John Shea
John Shea
2 years ago

It’s going to take a lot of work to break these interest groups into manageable sizes. What makes it even harder is how interconnected they all are. Still, it must be done, we must reduce these special interests from divisions down to brigades, or even smaller if necessary. Not just in the sciences, but the corporations, the non-profits, the political class, to name a few. If we don’t, our venues for free expression will keep getting narrower and narrower. I think it must be done, hopefully readers reading this may know ways of doing so.

Dale Pape
Dale Pape
2 years ago

When talk about Galileo Crawford representation misses like many in his field. He not only misses the context of what occurred and why, but its impact on thinking at that time.

This lost context has led to the very slippery slope we live in today. You have no balance if all you pursue is the book of Gods work without the book of Gods word. As Dr. Berlinski puts it todays priestly class sciencist fail as they where never ment to be priest’s.

Its good tonsee other finally catching up to the like of Dr. Berlinski and Dr. Missler. I offer this link of a speech by Dr. Berlinski to fill that massive gap left by Crawford.

Advance video to the 8:22 mark to forgo introduction.
https://youtu.be/0XIDykeZplU

prisonlit
prisonlit
2 years ago

Oh dear. I smell fiercly independent freedom loving libertarians at work here. Who is buying this stale old crap these days ? You guys are gonna be with us forever until we take away the loot of the awful billionaires that fund you I fear.

jeffrey.a.tucker
jeffrey.a.tucker
2 years ago

This is an amazing piece, an erudite manifesto that should keep everyone busy for a decade or more. Absolutely incredible.

Herm Herm
Herm Herm
2 years ago

This is a very interesting article, though quite one-sided. I for one think skepticism toward expertise is healthy, but I find your conclusions are heavily biased.
Climate change “skepticism” is a perfect example. Is this a case of the expertise of “big science” crushing the modest and reasonable objections of a plucky (and highly intelligent) few who just want to get to the bottom of the facts? No. That is rewriting history. The facts of the matter are quite different.
Nowhere is it mentioned that one of the most powerful industries on the planet has more or less successfully stalled acting on climate change for several decades, to a point where it might now be too late to reverse a large dose of catastrophic effects. One of the reasons climate change “skeptics” are tarred as climate change deniers is because of well-funded astro-turf campaigns have been so ubiquitous that it is easy to assume any “skeptic,” particularly of the internet s**t-posting variety, is simply a paid troll.
So instead of tarring those who think, yes, “following the science,” is a better idea that listening to the insults of every misanthrope, paid troll, and right wing demagogue (such as Trump) on the internet as being a member of a “cult of experts,” perhaps think about how there are two sides to this issue, and that this article completely ignoring one side is 1) more a political act than a service for “true science”, and 2) not exactly in alignment with the values you purport to be defending.
Yes, be skeptical of the experts. In fact, this is your responsibility. But only complete idiocy would stop you there there. Equal, if not greater, skepticism is due “skeptics” themselves, whose intentions are far less understood than the experts whom you give the blanket claim, ‘they are no longer worthy of your trust.’

Last edited 2 years ago by Herm Herm
Val Colic-Peisker
Val Colic-Peisker
2 years ago

A great essay, thank you! It covers a lot of ground and it is excellently written. The Covid19 pandemic and emergency regimes in English-speaking countries/states accellerated lots of already worrisome social and political processes around science, politics, and their confluence. The way our decision makers appeal to science has all the hallmarks of official dogma, and conversely, hereticism by anyone who may have their doubts or prefers to make their own decisions. We should be more worried that we are. Australians are especially trusting and naive.

Frank Frick
Frank Frick
2 years ago

Article was going well, then repurposed itself at the end. Authoritarianism unveiled! Or was that what you were working towards from the seed idea, Crawford?
Recent posters, you’re just at the top here… my comments apply to many others below.
People wanting to feel safe? I guess you’re not a ‘seatbelt kind of guy’?
Are you making this into All or Nothing…. “Now it’s happened, it is all ruined ….forever!” How so?
I decide to temper my behaviour because I don’t want specific hospitals to be overwhelmed. I want minimise the number of families to lose loved ones. You need a group change of behaviour to do that. *For a while*.
My rights proceed from social agreement. Some are enshrined in law, some are fluid, many are transiently applicable. Crowd behaviour has limits at times, and in some situations, but not others.
I do not say: “I’m in a queue for something, help, I’m being oppressed!”
And I appreciate the way others quiet their manner down on the Tube. “Tyranny of group behaviour!”
There is very big difference to the feeling of a dam that is containing, to a dam breaking. You can be NZ or you can have what is happening in India.
Go to a hospital that is breaking and see. Then keep going. Every day for ten straight days. Then check for a change in your views.
Or you might not go: “Can’t be bothered. Don’t care. Not doing it.” That would be an example of preferred ignorance.
And it’s just for a while. What would be the pay-off for indefinitely extending it? Jeeth Critht, what is permanent about it? *Your* distaste for government?

Athena Jones
Athena Jones
2 years ago
Reply to  Frank Frick

Social agreement you say? The tyranny of medical fascism in regard to the response to Covid and particularly vaccines and genetic treatments for a virus which is no threat to the vast majority, is the thin end of a very nasty wedge.
So, force everyone to receive a highly experimental, poorly tested, risky, unnecessary vaccine or genetic treatment in the name of the ‘greater good.’ Then watch the social agreement turn its face toward other drains on society – the old, the sick, the disabled, the dysfunctional, the unemployed., etc, etc, etc. It is a very long list or would be.
Surely our democratic vote is our only valid social agreement? Who says what is and is not a social agreement? Government, the media, the science-medical industry?
If put to the vote I suspect more people than not would reject a social agreement which involved mandatory medical treatments of any kind.
The worst tyrannies in history were founded on ‘social agreements.’

Bill Brannigan
Bill Brannigan
2 years ago

An excellent article, addressing the intense dilemma of personal freedom weighed against collective good and the demands of belonging to society, particularly in moments of extremis. Freud wrote on the inevitable and continual pain that the social inflicts on the ego in Civilization and its Discontents.
Let me report from my son in Shanghai. With all those around him – expats and Chinese – he quickly got the masks and the Chinese Test and Trace app, with no coercion save for the simple fact that if you didn’t have the app, you could not get access to a range of locations and services and so were effectively immobilized or at least severely constrained. He advocates it, and following the serious initial lockdown, now enjoys – covid and mask free – the various Shanghai restaurants and nightclubs. At least in Shanghai, he reports, from the outset, a successful mass civic buy-in to the need to defeat the virus.
Contrast that to the collapse of faith in our institutions you so acutely and worryingly identify, with the commensurate rise of ever more fantastical and ever more proliferate conspiracies – 5G, QAnon, Gates Tracker injections, masks as the handmaidens of a sinister world takeover and etc – and it may be that the cohesive liberal society we are in proto-mourning for has already been eliminated by an atomized soup of intellectually degenerate narcissism of the kind that had avowedly mask-less ‘patriots’ storm Washington. It is a neural pandemic the conjoined first Trumpian wave of which came within a whisker of subverting American democracy.
Personally, I am half-vaccinated and eagerly await the next shot. Meanwhile, since even full vaccination yields only a high level of protection, rather than complete, I will continue to wear a mask where there might be risk. People who continue to wear a mask are not sudden-onset regressive inverts, or skewed in thinking, they are only cautious. Nor are masks in any way connected with, explained by, or on a path to realizing Hannah Arendt’s On the Origins of Totalitarianism.
What is missing from your article is long covid, affecting up to 10% of those who caught covid – and often previously robust people, whose immune system may be overreacting. It also affects children. Some of those with long covid report sleeping on sitting room mattresses for many months because they now cannot climb stairs. Better safe than sorry, and better a mask than a ventilator, which is what the science continues to advise.

Last edited 2 years ago by Bill Brannigan
Andrea X
Andrea X
2 years ago

That was a LONG read. I confess, I started skipping after a while.
Perhaps it could do without (some of) the anecdotes.

Fraser Bailey
Fraser Bailey
2 years ago
Reply to  Andrea X

So you won’t be embarking on Dance To The Music Of Time or The Magic Mountain this weekend, I take it?

Weyland Smith
Weyland Smith
2 years ago
Reply to  Andrea X

It was a long read, and for once I didn’t skim read. Top quality.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
2 years ago
Reply to  Andrea X

You may have a short attention span, had you considered that?

Cho Jinn
Cho Jinn
2 years ago
Reply to  Andrea X

Thanks, Andrea.

jackeddyfier
jackeddyfier
2 years ago
Reply to  Andrea X

Don’t skip. Read it again to get the bits you skipped. You can take a coffee break half-way through if you must. But you will get no gold stars for skipping.

Last edited 2 years ago by jackeddyfier