Periods of society-wide threats are danger-times for rights. Anxious populations tend to accept restrictions on liberty which would be strongly resisted at other, more peaceful, moments. During the “War on Terror” which followed the 9/11 attacks, detention without trial, mass surveillance and torture were authorised by liberal democracies. We may be seeing that dynamic repeated today, as the legally enforced social-distancing restrictions put in place to slow the spread of Covid-19 raise some of the most difficult questions in modern times about life, liberty and the basic tenets of democracy.
Human rights law has built into it a deep scepticism of state power, particularly of the untrammelled variety, and so it is a useful lens through which to consider lockdowns. After the Second World War, human rights laws were created to ensure that even during those danger times certain basic rights were protected. But the basic psychology of threats and emergencies remain.
So let us consider a year of Covid-19. Twelve months ago, the first two cases of Covid-19 were confirmed in the UK. Fifty days later, on 23 March, the Prime Minister announced that he would “give the British people a very simple instruction — you must stay at home”. Three days after that, the first set of emergency lockdown regulations arrived. These were undoubtedly the most severe restrictions on liberty imposed in peacetime, and Health Secretary Matt Hancock reportedly described them as “Napoleonic”. “In lockdown”, he told the Cabinet, in a reversal of the usual principle of English law that whatever is not explicitly prohibited is permitted: “people would be forbidden from doing anything unless the legislation said, in terms, that they could”.
It is extraordinary that restrictions which a judge described as “possibly the most restrictive regime on the public life of persons and businesses ever”, could be made without prior Parliamentary scrutiny. But it took just 11 pages of law and one signature for Matt Hancock to impose the 26 March lockdown, which came into effect the moment he put down the pen.
Those 11 pages closed all non-essential businesses, meaning that people could only leave their homes if they had a “reasonable excuse”, and largely banned gatherings between people not of the same household. Any breaches could be punished. The police were also given power to take “such action as is necessary” to break up gatherings or ensure business closed.
That first lockdown — all 11 pages of it — was, in fact, stricter than the two that followed. The current lockdown law is over 120 pages, and a long list of exceptions — involving bubbles, animal welfare, picketing and “death bed visits” — have been added to the (deceptively) simple edict to stay at home. The rules for businesses have become more complicated too. 64 sets of regulations have followed the first, all using the same emergency procedure. And while the severity of social distancing measures has ebbed and flowed, at no point have they been entirely withdrawn. It is therefore possible to argue that lockdown has never ended, just changed shape.
Indeed, the meaning of “lockdown” remains elusive. It is generally understood as not being able to leave our homes except in limited circumstances. But there are other measures, such as non-essential business and school closures, and bans on gatherings, which some people, and the government, consider part of “lockdown”. There are also the self-isolation rules which became legal requirements at the end of September. These are stricter than the lockdown rules themselves, allowing for leaving home only in emergencies
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SubscribeAdam Wagner says: The starting point must be the indisputable seriousness of Covid-19, a once-in-a-century virus. It spreads easily and in many cases asymptomatically, has a relatively high fatality rate which, when combined with excessive transmission, has already led to over 100,000 deaths in the UK alone. It also causes lasting damage in some survivors. If it is allowed to move through the population at speed, there would be too many serious cases for hospitals to manage.
Is the seriousness of ‘Covid-19’ indisputable?
Remember that many people who encounter the virus SARS-CoV-2 will not progress to serious disease, i.e. ‘Covid-19’.
We also need more evidence about ‘lasting damage’ after this virus, this also occurs with other viral infections.
There’s also a very big question mark over the classification of ‘cases’ with this virus, due to unreliable PCR testing.
As for the 100,000 deaths attributed to Covid-19 in the UK over the past year, this must be viewed in the context of a country with a population of over 60 million, with around 600,000 deaths expected each year.
The way in which deaths are attributed to Covid-19 is also very questionable, just how many deaths are accurately attributed this way?
As for hospitals having too many ‘cases’ to manage, every year the NHS experiences problems dealing with flu etc. And if treatments and preventatives such as vitamin D had been promoted, instead of being suppressed to facilitate the fast-tracked experimental coronavirus vaccine products under very questionable FDA Emergency Use Authorizations, perhaps the death toll attributed to Covid-19 would have been much reduced?
There is a growing ageing population. Longer lives don’t mean people will be in good health, more likely the opposite in fact, with ageing populations being an increasing burden on the health services. So if people want to live longer, the health services will have to grow and adapt.
It’s insane to expect the general population should give up their social and economic lives to supposedly protect the health services, how has this ridiculous idea been allowed to take hold?
The bureaucracy needs to be overturned, particularly the likes of SAGE and the politicians in their thrall, time to bring these individuals to account for the social and economic disaster that has been allowed to unfold.
Yes
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And then in a couple years time you have the evidence, then what? Turn back time? After millions have had it? Pretty wreckless strategy there
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If you’re struggling to trust any data you’re coming across, take a stroll down memory lane and read accounts of how quickly this spread in Italy of MARCH 2020 and how quickly their hospitals were collapsing in a matter of weeks – that’s a good datum for a starting point.
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Most illnesses don’t affect hundreds of thousands of people all at the same time. That’s a very very different situation.
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Once again if you can’t trust any numbers you hear, just talk to a doctor or nurse or literally anyone near a hospital in a city in the UK (or any country for that matter). One group of people who aren’t suspicious of the numbers they hear is the people seeing what’s happening first hand – curious no?
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When was the last time that most cancer treatment was cancelled because of the flu? Speak to any hospital worker, none of them would describe this as akin to flu season
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Again you’re focusing entirely on deathrate here, but what do you think it looks like when there is no hospital capacity, and millions of people needing medical attention, all at the same time?
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What bureaucracy, the global one? Every single country on the planet is responding with different but extreme measures.
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It would be great to hold these viruses to account yes, but they have rights too no?
Excellent response.
“Every single country on the planet is responding with different but extreme measures”. Except for Sweden, Croatia, Florida, South Dakota, amongst others.
South Africa only had one hard lockdown last year and still the epidemic curve rose and fell. The surge we have just experienced had no hard lockdown, just some restrictions many of them which had no bearing on the virus.
Despite a lighter lockdown, SA has 775 deaths per million population compared to the UK’s 1,651. Meanwhile, the UK Government is whipping up fear about the SA variant and imposing even stricter measures, such as hotel quarantine, when there is no evidence to show that it is any more deadly than the variants currently circulating in the UK.
You do have to look at the age profile of the UK compared with SA
Re Italy, who could possibly forget all the dramatic footage that flooded the media when this thing started…
The blueprint for the response to this virus is Event 201, a simulation of a coronavirus outbreak, which was held in October 2019, convened by the World Economic Forum, Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation and Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health. An amazing coincidence this occurring before the SARS-CoV-2 outbreak.
Check out Segment 4 of the Event 201 videos, the Communications Discussion, where the participants in the simulation discuss flooding the media with information about the pandemic, making sure they control the narrative.
And that’s what we witnessed in the mainstream media in the real world event, non-stop alarm, and constant reporting re ‘cases’ and deaths, with a particular emphasis on ‘cases’ because they really had trouble cobbling together the death numbers…
In the Event 201 scenario, their simulated pandemic resulted in 65 million deaths in the first 18 months, but in the real world they’re up to around 2.3 million deaths over 12 months, and those figures have to be seen in the context of a global population of around 7.8 billion, where 59 million would have been expected to die in the past year.
Back to Italy, it appears there have been problems with hospitals in the Lombardy region for a while, for example look for this article published in January 2018, titled Milano, terapie intensive al collasso per l’influenza: già 48 malati gravi molte operazioni rinviate. English translation:Milan, intensive care collapsing due to flu: 48 seriously ill patients have already been postponed many operations. (I was able to translate the article to English on the internet.)
Also, I understand treatment via ventilators was a problem, a deadly problem.
What’s desperately needed now is independent and objective retrospective critical analysis of the handling of this coronavirus situation, including careful examination of global statistics, including the definition of ‘cases’, and the attribution of deaths to Covid-19.
And yes, there may well have been excess deaths due to this virus, as has happened in the past without society being upended.
I question the ill-targeted and disproportionate response to this virus, and those responsible must be brought to account.
You’re missing the point. Stop focusing on deathcount for a second; what do you think it looks like when there is no hospital capacity, and millions of people needing medical attention, all at the same time?
The point was not about the specifics of Italian healthcare, it is about looking at the rate of spread of a virus and having and some understanding of multiplicative events. If you’re convinced that the events in Italy were a mere strategic fabrication by the folks at TheMedia .com , just speak to anyone that works at a hospital in a city, wherever you live.
With regards to modelling, it is almost impossible to model such events because they are just too complex. A lot of those models are run on assumptions that everybody continues behaving exactly as they do, but that isn’t true. In places where there are no governments to enforce anything, people take matters into their own hands by naturally avoiding people and wearing masks etc. (And they certainly don’t sit on facebook bickering about whether they work or not). And in that 12 month period in which you say that more people were predicted to die, you’re ignoring how much connectivity had reduced already. Fewer flights, lockdowns had begun all over the world, mask-wearing, instinctive social distancing etc. which the models don’t, and can’t factor in.
Really Stan Glib, what is your point?
You just want the world to shut down forever?
Despite all the opprobrium shovelled on them, Sweden seemed to be doing pretty well, a neat little control group for us to observe.
And then…when the vaccine was ready to be rolled out…it all seemed to change. All of a sudden things weren’t so good apparently, Prime Minister Stefan Lofven and King Carl XVI Gustaf said so, and Anders Tegnell folded.
Was it anything to do with the British-Swedish AstraZeneca, and the lucrative global market for coronavirus vaccine products that beckons?
This is bad reasoning, again. Imagine for a second that every single country OTHER than Sweden had a zero-covid approach, and Sweden carried on as it was. It would still slow the spread inside Sweden because there would be no connectivity to the rest of the world! All countries are intertwined, what is China’s problem is Sweden’s problem is Australia’s problem is your problem and my problem.
What do I want? What I want is to stop seeing the Unherd comment section flooded with rattled, useless rants by people who can’t wrap their head around how this is different to a bad flu season.
And what I want is to stop seeing the UnHerd comment section dominated by people who want to wallow in this virus forever.
Fix it. Find effective treatments. Promote appropriate preventatives. Encourage people to live healthy lives. Expand the health service as necessary.
It is weird and sinister that there are people who want to curb people’s lives and shut down society.
Agree with your solutions, but they won’t be delivered, this week/month/year, will they? What do you suggest we do until the world is a better place as far as Covid is concerned?
What I want to stop seeing is *illogical* people wallowing in lockdowns and the virus. Truly this is bad for the health of millions more people than will ever get the virus.
Yes. There is indeed a fate worse than death.
One significant preventative measure is masks, but not many here want any measures that change their way of life. You won’t even persuade them to make a minor irritating adjustment, so what now?
Well put. I too wonder why massive resources weren’t put into expanding public health services, even temporarily, right at the start of the pandemic, so there wasn’t a risk of the whole system “collapsing” under the weight of an explosion of seriously ill people, the whole justification for jailing an entire population. It’s not like those resources were never available, in the wealthiest countries of the world, and with ample warning and time to prepare. I keep thinking of the Navy hospital ship sent to NYC harbour, which never got used. How could such a resource remain unused, in a supposed public health crisis?
Because it doesn’t matter how much you scale up the hospital capacity, when the virus spreads at an exponential rate. If you’re going to ask these silly questions over and over at least read the answers.
The projections about how this virus would spread, and how fast, were all wrong. They were based on absolute worst-case scenarios, imagining this virus was both far more easily transmitted and far more deadly than any other virus ever known, eg., “Asymptomatic person exposed to virus gets on bus with 30 other people, every person on bus infected, every person gets sick and dies, after each infecting at least 5 other people, who all get sick and die…” It was unscientific and nonsensical. If the virus had just been allowed to run its course, the health care system would have coped, or if they hadn’t, they would have been piss poor at their jobs, for which the taxpayers pay a huge amount of money. They are SUPPOSED to be able to cope with occasional, temporary crises like this one. What were people with cancer told during the Blitz, that they couldn’t go in for surgery or treatment because hospital beds had to be freed up for bombing victims?
Literally no models were predicting
It was already clear that only about 5 – 15% needed hospitalization in around Jan 2020.
– It was, between December 2019 and Early 2020, and eventually no populated place could handle the number of people needing hospitalization.
‘They are SUPPOSED to be able to cope with occasional, temporary crises like this one.’
This is like blaming a nurse because they couldn’t handle the number of burns victims from a building that is still on fire and still spreading. Hospitals won’t reduce human connectivity, it’s just damage control. Firefighters stop fires, not the nurses.
It does not matter how much capacity/staff a hospital has, if transmission is going up exponentially quickly. Google the terms ‘exponential’, ‘multiplicative’, and ‘second order effects’ for a start.
My point was that they probably came up with that ridiculously inflated deaths projection number by assuming that all or most people within proximity of a person carrying the virus would be infected. That’s not the way it works, even with the most infectious viruses. Especially not when a carrier has no symptoms. If they did work that way, I would have gotten the flu or at least a cold every time I attended a crowded indoor event in the past. When I lived in Japan I regularly traveled in sardine-packed trains and subways and went to nightclubs so crammed with people one could barely move. I also went to many galleries and museums, which were always very crowded on weekends. Most people didn’t wear masks, and certainly not in bars or nighclubs. Never got sick, except a couple of times in the dead of winter.
– so this is wild speculation based on nothing so I’ll just ignore this part.
Aside from that, you’re talking about other illnesses there, such as cold and flu. This is a completely different virus.
In the scenarios you gave here, you’re right that *surely* you would have caught something. But remember, you were likely sharing pathogens which didn’t develop into anything because of your and others’ immune system. At a certain viral load, they will develop if you can’t fight it off, right?
And for whatever reasons, it is clear that COVID either somehow transmits easier than other viruses, or, peoples’ immune systems can’t fight small viral loads off as easily as colds/flus and all the viruses we catch which never amount to anything.
If you disagree with me regarding all that, just strip things down to the bare basics; Without knowing anything about the way a virus spreads, one could look at the rate at which people were needing hospitalisation with similar symptoms to know that something was spreading at a rate that would soon overwhelm hospitals, thus transmission had to be reduced somehow.
One can expand physical infrastructure and equipment more quickly than doctors and nurses can be trained. Already there was a large shortage of medical professionals prior to Covid. They can’t be magicked into existence in the space of a few months.
Some of us “ranting” people are actual virologists/scientists/doctors/epidemiologists working in the field with many years of experience.
Whereas this virus was a disaster for a small percentage the old and infirm, it is now an economic and social (by extension health) disaster for the young and healthy. Congratulations, we’ve ruined the lives of our children to save ourselves.
I agree. A society that sacrifices its young for its old does not have my respect, and I’m 64. This doesn’t mean that I “want old people to die.” I’m just more concerned about giving young people the opportunities that I had and creating the conditions for them to live fulfilling lives.
Hear! hear! I’m 68. 🙂
So Sweden’s hospital weren’t over-run because all their neighbours locked down?!! I’d love to be on your side of the argument – you don’t need any facts, just assert when challenged that Armageddon happens unless you trust what I say.
In a globally connected world, what happens in one country affects all other countries. You dispute that?
You are doing a great job and I don’t want to steal your thunder. For some reason, people believe that they can do a summary of events as they see them and that it is useful. How is it useful to anybody?
I have been with UnHerd for 5 weeks and find it stuck in a groove like a record. Constant facts and analysis of things people have said or done. Meanwhile, the Left has real ideas. With the wisdom of maturity these facts are rubbish but as a young person they would be devastating.
‘The old people on the Right, the fat cats, have destroyed the world for us. Time for them to go and make a new world for us. Who cares about civil liberties or industry or wealth or property. Take it all away, scale down, grow our own vegetables and be happy again.’
Are there any counter ideas instead of constant analysis of the problems?
Because it isn’t worse than a bad flu season, look at the statistics by the ONS. Overall mortality for 2020 is not worse than an average year. So where are the thousands of extra covid deaths? Also many of those deaths were CAUSED by the lockdown, by withdrawing treatment and undiagnosed serious illnesses.
What do you mean, where are the excess? The lockdowns are to prevent the spread in the first place, hence they don’t happen, hence the figures are what they are. They’re preventative measures, that’s the whole point.
This is pure misinformation and a loony conspiracy theory. In fact, Sweden has very high excess deaths starting from last spring, just as U.K. does. Also a big economic hit.
Debate policy on the basis of the world as it is, not as you want it to be.
(I posted a link to the Swedish government stats showing excess deaths in a comment to Mr Sayers’ “Zero Covid” article, so you can check that. I won’t post it again here because the moderators take days to approve any comment with an external link in it.)
I have to defend Elizabeth here – she is raising a valid point (or many valid points actually) about the lockdown strategy and the negative reporting by the media to dumb us down into defeat, without any positive news at all. Daily Sky reports figures of doom and gloom without qualification. Death rate seems to be a dead cert, without questioning what the causes were. Save the NHS? What a joke. As some doctors friends of mine said – the NHS is supposed to save us! Not the other way round. The NHS must be overhauled and refitted to suit the country’s needs.
Failure of governments to anticipate and plan for seasonal viral hospitalizations results in many unnecessary deaths. Medical personnel have been warning and pleading for more beds/help for years. This is a monumental world wide government failure – wrecking the lives of many of their citizens in the process.
And still they do not stop. Vaccination for Coronavirus and despotic measures will never bring this mess under control. Pay attention to prophylaxis and community health and we might get somewhere
You’re missing the point. NHS capacity isn’t a static and can be and is increased during times of stress. The trick is to learn how to do this effectively every winter. And have something in place – like for instance a million trained ‘reservists’ – to help when the next pandemic arrives. Not easy for sure and will require significant military-esque style planning.
You don’t get it, at all: It doesn’t matter how much you scale up hospital capacity, all that does is delay the point at which it becomes overwhelmed. The virus spreads at an exponential rate, you cannot scale hospital capacity at the same exponential rate.
Except it did not spread exponentially in those areas with the least draconian measures. If Ferguson had been right there should have been 40000 deaths in Sweden.
Like the idea.
Everything you are saying is with hindsight. How easy it is to sit in front of your computer and analyse everybody’s thoughts and errors. Either this post is not sincere or it is a total waste of time.
Really? You don’t think it’s appropriate to try and evaluate the shambles of the past year?
Maybe others should be taking a closer look at the World Health Organisation, which is now an operating front for the vaccine industry, and see how things have been changing there in regards to handling ‘pandemics’…
And also a very close look at the ‘philanthropic’ Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, which appears to be dominating this area of public health, with politicians such as Boris Johnson at their beck and call.
I don’t think that constant analysis is of any use at all – and it is easy to do.
Its always difficult not to join in the panic / run with the pack. Its even more so when any attempt to think about the issue and respond in a way different to the majority is castigated by the media.
… not to mention the keyboard warriors. For questioning the proportionality of the lockdown policies I have been called a sociopath, Trumptard, flat-earther, neckbeard, and all the rest. (I’m a 64-year-old left-leaning woman.) The suppression of dissent has been off the charts.
Not to forget covid denier, covidiot and antivaxxer… Oh and granny killer!
Well put.
This says it all – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQc...
Elizabeth, I vote for you to be on SAGE. Thank you for your clarity. Also, Stan’s name would imply you don’t need to take him seriously. And further, there are two Elizabeth Harts on this thread, one with a picture of a Victorian-looking gentleman. What is going on?!
Thanks Helen.😊
I can’t see the picture of the Victorian-looking gentleman, although that is an avatar I use, i.e. a picture of John Stuart Mill…gosh, I wish he was around now, what would he make of it all?
More official propaganda. “Speak to any hospital worker etc”.
Many of us have – and were told that the official figures and narrative have been largely exaggerrated and while some hospitals were under a lot of pressure – as they are every winter, as much due to lack of organisation and poor management as due to increased workload – many hospitals were around half of usual capacity and some even less than that.
I guess it’s your word against mine then isn’t it. I have one friend who’s a surgeon in an East London hospital who’s had to cancel most cancer surgery over the last year, because beds were needed for covid patients. Other friends who are nurses across London confirm that almost all admissions since Christmas have been people needing ventilators. Entire teams have been reconfigured and desperately retrained to deal with these. They would all agree that hospital management is not optimal, but none of them would see the situation as anything but a crisis, wildly different to a flu season.
But these are just some examples of many; my point is, stop searching for data that leads to the conclusion you wish to hear; talk to people who are seeing the bare reality of what’s happening. Some countries will fare better than others, and no country will respond optimally.
I have one friend in a East London hospital who’s had to cancel most cancer surgery over the last year, because beds were needed for covid patients.
How’s that worked out for the people whose surgery was canceled? They were only cancer patients, so no big deal, right? No doubt, some of those patients have since died and unnecessarily so. This is not to downplay covid, but what kind of policy tells a cancer patient needing surgery to suck it up for a while.
Oh I agree with you completely – he had one patient in his 20s with bladder cancer whose app was delayed indefinitely. Most people would agree this is terrible. But consider the alternative; all standard protocols continue, regarding who to help, and the government says ‘If you get covid, stay at home and if you die, we’re very sorry’. Imagine the response to that.
The virus has been prioritized above all else, irrespective of what impact such steps will have. It’s one thing to delay a nose job, quite another to do so with cancer. In the US, thousands of hospital personnel were laid off because of the fixation with covid. That makes no sense at all.
I’ve spoken to you in other threads elsewhere and you still haven’t grasped the problem here. It is a systemic problem.What do you think happens when millions of people need medical attention at the same time, and all hospitals are full?
I know what happens when people are denied care. I know what happens when the economy is shut down for months at a time. I know that thousands of medical workers being furloughed is not an indicator of hospitals being full. And I also know what happens when Naval hospital ships are brought in and secondary facilities are created for an overflow that never comes.
All the hospitals are not full. All the hospitals have never been full. Using bold font and underlining the question does not change that. Again, nose jobs vs cancer; one is elective, the other really isn’t. When the same excuses and approaches do not work, it may time to question the wisdom of the steps taken.
Dude, answer my question, what do you think would happen?
Hypothetical scenarios are just that. It hasn’t happened. It is likely to ever happen. I pointed to several other things that have happened and you ignore them all.
Governments can’t just respond to crises after they’ve happened though. Some measures have to be precautionary, preventative and based on uncertainty. All of the problems you listed would happen anyway, on top of all the other second order effects of a pandemic.
It’s completely reasonable for some measures to be taken in times of uncertainty that then turn out to be less than optimal. I think that applies to the authorities’ reactions during the first few weeks or even months of the pandemic and we should view those actions with charity. What we see now though is a lack of political will to change those approaches after new data emerges and after we’ve had time to evaluate the trade-offs. Politicians are mostly terrified to change these harsh approaches. I saw that coming last February—once imposed, any deaths that occur after lifting a lockdown will be laid on that politician. It’s his/her fault that people are dying. From a pandemic; from a natural disaster.
Can I answer that question IF we ever see it happen.
But I’d also ask – what happened to the Nightingales? If the NHS is so desperate why did they come up with an absurd “training” program to give an injection?
What about the angel hospitals?? where are they still ???
Get those brain cells whurring please.
So, someone in his 20s dies of an otherwise treatable cancer, so someone in their 80s can be hospitalised and intubated for a respiratory infection and probably die anyway (from the tube, if not the infection itself). Yes, that makes total sense. Probably many of the elderly patients who died (supposedly) of COVID in hospital would have had a greater chance of recovery just being looked after at home, in their own beds.
Again, this is with hindsight and, possibly, not relevant. I have members of my family who have cancer and are delayed with their treatment but I know for a fact that they are not blaming people who are in hospital with Covid.
Well, no; they are not going to blame sick people but delaying cancer treatment isn’t good. In the US, thousands of hospital personnel were furloughed, so the issue was not a system being overrun with covid.
Exactly!
So why close down the back up hospitals then ??? Answer that please. They were built only to be never used. This fact is extremley important in your analysis of this crisis. This doesnt make sense and is the common theme running through the whole pandemic.
My impression (I am a retired GP) is the same as yours Stan. A friend who is nursing in ITU says that this year the patients are younger and sicker..the virus is much nastier than your average flu because it damages blood vessels as well as preventing oxygenation of the blood. I thoroughly dislike lockdown and hope that March will see the end of it…but our previous virus-lite travel- rich life has changed forever.
I read a very interesting article in Sciencemag org entitled – Why covid 19 is more deadly in people with obesity – even when they are young. By
Meredith Wadman.
Could this account for the number of younger and sicker people presenting in hospital?
The increase in younger people is because of the increase in cases full stop. If 1 in 100 patients is a 30 year old, by the time 100,000 have covid, one thousand patients will be a 30 year old. And so you’ll hear about more cases of younger patients.
Hmmm, a rather glib response to a more nuanced problem, if you don’t mind me saying!
Far more younger people are getting tested now. If they weren’t, even the most severe cases requiring hospitalization or antibiotics prescriptions would have been put down to ordinary pneumonia or other respiratory infections common at this time of year. Pneumonia can still be a killer of the young if it isn’t caught and treated early. I knew a young woman who had most of one of her lungs removed due to a bad case of pneumonia, back in the early 90s. She had had no other health problems before that.
Why, then, is the solution widespread application of severe, unproven (and sometimes ludicrous) mandatory lock-down rules? If the main problem is medical capacity, then our efforts and economic resources can and should be applied to fixing that.
Imagine that instead of ruining a country, we got on with as much of business as usual as we reasonably could, and used the resulting economic health to fund targeted approaches such as adapting medical capacity and implementing new and innovative standards of care. As everyone knows, this is not the last pandemic.
As far as having to cancel cancer treatments due to hospitalization of covid patients, why was there was no emergency plan to be able to expand medical facilities to begin with? Why hasn’t this been done, going on a year now? In the US, there is no particular issue with lack of ability to treat other illnesses along with covid patients. What we do have is a huge wave coming of people who will die of cancer because they have been made too afraid to seek treatment and regular exams.
Because, even if you expanded the medical capacity by x10 tomorrow, all that does is delay the day on which hospitals become overwhelmed. The problem is that transmission happens exponentially quickly, and has to be prevented sooner than later, like a fire.
Lockdowns aren’t necessary, what’s necessary is the most efficient and cheap way of reducing human connectivity. Masks for example. But the indignant vitriol towards masks on this site is perhaps even greater than towards lockdowns, which tells you something – many people actually don’t want anything in their lives to have to change.
You sound rather like the person on Twitter who claimed that “22 family members” had either died or been seriously ill from COVID. How the hell many people these days have that many family members that they see regularly and know by name, other than Mormons? Never knew of someone not in the health care field having that many friends who happened to be doctors and nurses.
Thanks for this – it has to be repeated again and again as the official horror narrative is hammered home by all media every day – morning till night!
Hopefully, something will get through to the hopelessly indoctrinated, who are currently busy helping this new tyranny along!
I read as far as “has already led to over 100,000 deaths in the UK alone.” What utter rubbish
Even the ostensible ‘sceptics’ throughout the media are now using the 100,000 deaths figure as though it were true. It beggars belief.
It may well be more.
Or it may be a lot less. Just like in the US, we don’t have accurate statistics on how many people have actually died from COVID-19, because deaths are being recorded as COVID-19 deaths automatically if the patients tested positive for the virus. We are just being told to accept that every one of those people – the vast majority of the m very elderly and/or with at least one other serious health condition – would still be alive now if i weren’t for that dastardly virus. It’s nonsensical.
Kathy Pendergast you make these same claims over and over again, if you cannot bear to trust any of the data you hear, just talk to literally any hospital workers in any city in this country, get some feedback from them about your suspicions. Throughout each peak they have been inundated with patients needing ventilators. Just talk to actual people who are seeing the bare reality, if you can’t trust anything you read.
Compared to the plague, or ebola, or malaria or rabies, or the 1919, we knew right at the beginning, very specifically who is vulnerable to this virus, the people who might die from it. They could very easily have been protected, while the able-bodied memebers of the family could continue working and earning money to be able to provide for the vulnerable members. And the old saw that “what to do about multi-generational families?” Well, what are you doing about them now? How did the lockdowns work for them? The elderly were carted off to care homes where they became infected by staff coming and going, and died.
Right on, sister.
If the matter were “indisputable”, one would not have to belabor the point.
Power is in the hands of the people… It is time for us to practice polite civil disobedience
But most people support lockdown. Rightly or wrongly.
That is the problem, you start with ‘indisputable seriousness’. That IS disputable. It is a form of pneumonia. Many fragile and elderly people will die of pneumonia
Excellent piece! Wagner’s starting point virtually cancels the rest of his article with its rote-learned, standard offering, unchallenged Covid Horror narrative .
Instead of wondering whether our rights will be affected he should be asking why, specifically western Governments and media , have co-ordinated to close down all dissent and use the virus as the excuse to withdraw all the most basic human freedoms – then he might just wake up and smell the coffee.
As for bringing anyone responsible to account her seem to be no courts interested in the UK ( not so in Europe though), which surely makes the sinister agenda even more obvious?
Perhaps he should bother take a look at the players involved in the US election result as well?
Future generations ( we hope!) will ask why this was all allowed to happen with no resistance?
Points well made.
Has all dissent been closed down? I read a lot of ‘dissent’. I see protesters outside hospitals shouting that the staff inside are propagating lies.
Most people believe Covid is serious and believe it kills people and leaves people very ill. Most people know this because they know people, or know of people, who have been affected.
Most people also believe that restricting contact between individuals in certain circumstances reduces transmission.
You still get to say you disagree with most people so dissent is not being closed down – it’s just that most people continue to disagree with you.
Dissent is being closed down all over the place. I was “permanently suspended” late last year from two major social media platforms, simply for questioning the official COVID narrative in the comments sections. At least, I’m assuming that’s why, as I don’t post racist or otherwise abusive or offensive comments. This kind of silencing of dissenting voices is far more insidious than chasing groups of protesters away from hospitals. It makes the government look good, to tolerate the odd group of people standing out in the cold, waving placards and shaking their fists, all the while shutting down the real flow of information where it matters. The CCP in China are experts at that.
Thank you very much for this, Elizabeth. My heart sank as I reached that paragraph of the article. It seems that there is no honest analysis of the virus anywhere in the media.
Do you live under a rock Julian
Far from it!
Excellent comments.
well said
I couldn’t have stated the case better myself. At least, however, Mr. Wagner is raising the very real issue of the impact of lockdown policies on civil liberties, including the right to protest and dissent against government policies”the key cornerstone to any functioning democracy. We risk forgetting that our ancestors fought and died for these freedoms. We shouldn’t be so willing to give them up for a virus that is barely worse than seasonal flu.
You’re free to argue about how to respond to COVID, but as long as you post bonkers conspiracy theories about PCR, Bill Gates, and general anti-vax nonsense, serious people will ignore you, never mind anyone in Government with any power to actually change anything.
This is the problem with most of the “lockdown sceptics” I’ve seen so far: they are clearly unqualified if not actually crazy. They just can’t seem to help themselves: every attempt at looking serious ends up with them tripping over their own feet: see Yeadon’s failure to delete his old racist tweets after he got Twitter-famous; or the “fair and balanced” Hart Group coincidentally setting up their web site on the same server as a Yeadon fanclub and a PCR conspiracy group who are trying to get people to sue the government.
In your own case, you have both complained that the low number of positives in Australia means their lockdown was not justified and complained that the PCR test has too many (false) positives, without apparently realising you’re talking self-contradictory nonsense.
What do you understand by the terms “linear” and “exponential”, and how do they apply to the growth of hospitals vs the growth of the virus?
The ‘Lockdown happened and then only X died so Lockdown wasnt necessary’ line of logic crops up time and time again.
I hope the current generation of maths teachers do a better job of teaching about linearity/exponentiality in prep for future pandemics or god help us all
At the beginning of all this I had the deluded fantasy that ‘Ah, but we now have magnificently illustrated free youtube videos to help people grasp exponential virus spread and act early’. Ha ha ha
All I can say is that some of the dissenting epidemiologists & Doctors i’ve listened to obviously need to watch those youtube videos or learn from your expertise. Then maybe one day they too will understand exponential virus spread.
Unless of course those ones are the ones paid by corporations..(which is something i’ve heard from people who were..a hot minute ago ready to ridicule anyone who remotely questioned the wisdom of the current approach as being a ‘cinspiracy looney’)
What point are you making about Bill Gates?
The Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation is exerting extraordinary influence over international vaccination policy.
The Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation is one of the largest funders of the WHO, along with the Gates Foundation-backed Gavi Alliance, and Germany, USA, UK and the EU Commission (as noted on the WHO’s Contributors webpage updated until Q3-2020).
It seems to me the WHO is a front for the vaccine industry, being run by organisations and countries that are heavily involved in promoting vaccine markets, most recently coronavirus vaccine products.
In regards to the Gavi Alliance, this was set up in 1999 with a $750 million pledge from the Gates Foundation. The Gates Foundation is a key Gavi partner in ‘vaccine market shaping’.
Bill and Melinda Gates pledged $10 billion for the ‘Decade of Vaccines’. Check out the ‘Decade of Vaccines Collaboration’, consisting of the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundations, GAVI Alliance, UNICEF, US National Institute of Allergies and Infectious Diseases and WHO, along with others, including many governments, non-government organizations and other agencies.
At the Global Vaccine Summit, hosted by the UK in June 2020, the Gates Foundation-backed Gavi raised “more than $8.8 billion from 31 donor governments and 8 foundations, corporations and organisations to immunise 300 million children and support the global fight against COVID-19”. (See: ‘World leaders make historic commitments to provide equal access to vaccines for all’ on the Gavi Alliance website.)
And check out the Coalition for Epidemic Preparedness Innovations. CEPI was launched in Davos in 2017 and co-founded by the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, along with the governments of Norway and India, the Wellcome Trust, and the World Economic Forum.
CEPI is an “innovative global partnership between public, private, philanthropic, and civil society organisations. We’re working together to accelerate the development of vaccines against emerging infectious diseases and equitable access to these vaccines for people during outbreaks”.
In other words, CEPI is working to develop massive global vaccine markets.
To date, CEPI has secured financial support from Australia, Austria, Belgium, the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, Canada, Denmark, the European Commission, Finland, Germany, Hungary, Italy, Japan, Kuwait, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malaysia, Mexico, Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Panama, Saudi Arabia, Serbia, Singapore, Switzerland, United Kingdom, USAID, Ethiopia, The Republic of Korea, Indonesia, and Wellcome.
Additionally, CEPI has also received support from private sector entities as well as public contributions through the UN Foundation COVID-19 Solidarity Response Fund.
CEPI seems to be a bit cagey about clearly defining vaccine industry involvement, but representatives of Sanofi Pasteur, Johnson & Johnson, Pfizer and MSD Wellcome Trust Hillman Labs are on its Scientific Advisory Committee.
Check out CEPI’s website for more info, including the about / who we are webpage.
But this is just the tip of the iceberg… There’s a massive international web behind the burgeoning global vaccine industry…and it’s time it was investigated…
Bill Gates has world leaders at his beck and call, meeting with UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson in November 2020 to discuss rolling out coronavirus vaccination[1], and pursuing vaccine financing with other world leaders such as French President Emmanuel Macron, German Chancellor Angela Merkel, President Ursula von der Leyen of the European Commission, and Crown Prince Mohammed bin Zayued of the United Arab Emirates[2].
Bill Gates deliberately sabotaged the establishment of a Vaccine Safety Commission in the United States. Gates boasted that when he met Donald Trump on two occasions, including in the White House in 2017, Trump asked Gates “if vaccines weren’t a bad thing, because he was considering a commission to look into ill effects of vaccines”, and that Robert Kennedy Jr. “was advising him that vaccines were causing bad things”. Gates told Trump “…no, that’s a dead end, that would be a bad thing, don’t do that.”[3] And it seems that’s when the idea of a Vaccine Safety Commission died, because Bill Gates said “…that would be a bad thing, don’t do that”.
How appalling that Bill Gates deliberately sabotaged consideration of vaccine safety, when he was awash in conflicts of interest via his own promotion of vaccine products.
References:
1. UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson meets Bill Gates to discuss COVID-19 vaccine. WION, 12 November 2020.
2. Inside Bill Gates’ high-stakes quest to vaccinate the world against COVID-19. The Seattle Times, 23 November 2020
3. A video of Bill Gates comments is currently accessible on YouTube, under the title: Bill Gates Dishes About President Donald Trump Meetings in Exclusive Video, MSNBC, 18 May 2018. It’s notable that the transcript on this video does not include a clear transcription of Bill Gates saying “…no, that’s a dead end, that would be a bad thing, don’t do that”, despite these words being clearly audible in the video (around 2:30).
The Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation is exerting extraordinary influence over international vaccination policy.
The Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation is one of the largest funders of the WHO, along with the Gates Foundation-backed Gavi Alliance, and Germany, USA, UK and the EU Commission (as noted on the WHO’s Contributors webpage updated until Q3-2020).
It seems to me the WHO is a front for the vaccine industry, being run by organisations and countries that are heavily involved in promoting vaccine markets, most recently coronavirus vaccine products.
In regards to the Gavi Alliance, this was set up in 1999 with a $750 million pledge from the Gates Foundation. The Gates Foundation is a key Gavi partner in ‘vaccine market shaping’.
Bill and Melinda Gates pledged $10 billion for the ‘Decade of Vaccines’. Check out the ‘Decade of Vaccines Collaboration’, consisting of the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundations, GAVI Alliance, UNICEF, US National Institute of Allergies and Infectious Diseases and WHO, along with others, including many governments, non-government organizations and other agencies.
At the Global Vaccine Summit, hosted by the UK in June 2020, the Gates Foundation-backed Gavi raised “more than $8.8 billion from 31 donor governments and 8 foundations, corporations and organisations to immunise 300 million children and support the global fight against COVID-19”. (See: ‘World leaders make historic commitments to provide equal access to vaccines for all’ on the Gavi Alliance website.)
And check out the Coalition for Epidemic Preparedness Innovations. CEPI was launched in Davos in 2017 and co-founded by the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, along with the governments of Norway and India, the Wellcome Trust, and the World Economic Forum.
CEPI is an “innovative global partnership between public, private, philanthropic, and civil society organisations. We’re working together to accelerate the development of vaccines against emerging infectious diseases and equitable access to these vaccines for people during outbreaks”.
In other words, CEPI is working to develop massive global vaccine markets.
To date, CEPI has secured financial support from Australia, Austria, Belgium, the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, Canada, Denmark, the European Commission, Finland, Germany, Hungary, Italy, Japan, Kuwait, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malaysia, Mexico, Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Panama, Saudi Arabia, Serbia, Singapore, Switzerland, United Kingdom, USAID, Ethiopia, The Republic of Korea, Indonesia, and Wellcome.
Additionally, CEPI has also received support from private sector entities as well as public contributions through the UN Foundation COVID-19 Solidarity Response Fund.
CEPI seems to be a bit cagey about clearly defining vaccine industry involvement, but representatives of Sanofi Pasteur, Johnson & Johnson, Pfizer and MSD Wellcome Trust Hillman Labs are on its Scientific Advisory Committee.
Check out CEPI’s website for more info, including the about / who we are webpage.
But this is just the tip of the iceberg… There’s a massive international web behind the burgeoning global vaccine industry…and it’s time it was investigated…
Are you saying there aren’t false positives in PCR testing?
This is from an article in The Lancet*: To summarise, falseÂ-positive COVIDÂ19 swab test results might be increasingly likely in the current epidemiological climate in the UK, with substantial consequences at the personal, health system, and societal levels (panel).
*False-positive COVID-19 results: hidden problems and costs.
In regards to testing in Australia, I’m challenging the enormous amounts of money, time and resources going into testing. There’s been more than 13.3 million tests, with 0.2% positive. How much is this costing? If we say $200 a test, which is likely an underestimate, that’s $2.6 billion, what a waste.
And the interesting thing to think about is whether people would have some sort of immunity if the virus was here. But who is capable of answering these sorts of questions because who has any expertise in virology and immunology?!?! The conversation is dominated by epidemiologists, medical officers and behavioural scientists, who are clueless on this matter.
Re your reference to ‘anti-vax nonsense’, what’s that?
Are you suggesting that people shouldn’t be allowed to question taxpayer-funded vaccination policy and practice?
Have you any idea how vaccination schedules are escalating, the amount of vaccine products, revaccinations, multi-component shots, aluminium-adjuvanted vaccines that are on the schedule?
Children in particular are bearing an increasing vaccine load, but adults are increasingly in the frame for more vaccines.
And now fast-tracked experimental coronavirus vaccines are being pressed on everyone, and they’re planning on including children too, so that’s more vaccines every year for children, along with flu vaccines, and everything else on their schedule. We have no idea of the cumulative long-term consequences of this vaccine load.
Are you in the UK? Have a look at the NHS schedule and let me know how many of these vaccine products you’ve had?
Woke woke woke…. And more woke
Human rights are incompatible with an infection control regime that political scholars would regard as a form ‘biopolitics’. If the primary responsibility of the state is the control of our bodies, our rights and status and citizens, which transcend our mere biology, are cancelled out. This state of de-citizenised subjugation is what philosopher Giorgio Agamben terms ‘bare life’ – life with no significance beyond the biological fact of itself. To Agamben, under lockdown the condition of bare life that was once reserved for marginalised groups or the inmates of detention centres and concentration camps has been extended to the entire populace.
Along with the biopolitical, Agamben sees the State of Emergency as the other means whereby a nominally liberal democracy can become a state with overtly totalitarian features while still masquerading on the rhetorical level as the former. For as with the the pandemic and other emergency regimes such as the post-9/11 anti-terror state, the justification is not an overtly authoritarian goal, but imperatives that are understood to transcend politics, or which are seen as rightly excused from democratic norms, such as ‘security’, and ‘public safety’. In the case of Covid, the widespread appeal to ‘the science’ further barricades the debate from political contestation. Institutionalised science, wrongly presupposed to exist outside of politics and ideology, can be used to legitimate almost anything. All rights, liberal norms and democratic standards can be suspended in its name.
Hence, what was hitherto unimaginable has become acceptable, even semi-normalised. People are being incarcerated in hotels having committed no crime. It is illegal to leave the country. Public protest has been prohibited. Essentially, if a policy is supported by ‘the science’ or enacted in the name of ‘safety’, it goes largely unquestioned.
What is particularly notable is that this state of exception has even many liberals advocating authoritarian policies that they previously would never have countenanced. In March, the New York Times had denounced Trump’s call for travel bans as racist, and condemned the authoritarian approach of China, but in September led with the headline “To Beat the Coronavirus, Build a Better Fence.” Similarly, The Guardian is now brimming with demands for closed borders, seemingly having fully-embraced the view of SAGE scientist Gabriel Scally that “the only thing that brings this deadly virus to our shores is human bodies. We need managed isolation for all people arriving.”
The demotion of human beings to “human bodies” is a perfect illustration of a politics of ‘bare life’. And if we are not careful, such an attitude will become normalised along with what Agamben terms a “techno-medical despotism”.
Yes, everything you say is so true. We are in a horrifying place.
Isn’t that exactly what we are though? One fragile animal among many?
If at any time humans appeared to have been promoted out of its nuisance of a meaty vessel, that was quite clearly an illusion.. a performance-review bonus at best.
You misunderstand. Agamben looks back to Ancient Greek societies to find a distinction between two states of social existence: Bios and Zoe. Bios is ones full-existence as citizen, ones public life with all the status and recognition that carries. In contrast, Zoe characterises the slave, the woman, the one without public status who exists outside of the law, and can be killed.
In modernity, Agamben, following Foucault, sees this distinction reformalised under institutionalised biology, in conjunction with the legal system. To both Agamben and Foucault biology has totalitarian tendencies as it sees life as something to be measured, managed, surveilled and controlled. Yes, we are given rights, but these rights can be removed at any moment, reducing us to Zoe – ‘bare life’. We do not have a right to rights. Nor is ‘life’ something that defines us in our entirety – in our full state of ‘bios’.
To give an example, I am having my rights taken away to protect my health and that of others. But the concept of health here employed does not include my mental health, or even the much evidenced interplay between my mental health and my immune system, but merely my immunological biology as though it had no connection to the rest of me as a person. I simply become a walking vector of disease.
Moreover, I don’t exist as an individual but as a member of a biological group. To Agamben and Foucault, this is where biopolitics becomes really dangerous. For paradoxically it can legitimate murder. Imagine if a government felt it had no choice but to protect the life of the the nation by killing those who attempted to cross its borders. Biopolitics is always in danger of eventuating in such dark extremes.
If biology has totalitarian tendencies then The Enlightenment is most certainly over. Don’t know Agamben, but Foucault is one of those pseudo lefties who use long words to try to persuade us that they have something worthwhile to say.
The Government apparently thought that if Covid was let rip, the hospitals would be overwhelmed and their chances of re-election would be reduced to vanishingly small. They were probably right.
Foucault wasn’t really a lefty. In fact he ended up in hot water with the left for appearing to reject Marx and flirting with libertarian ideas.
Your assumption that the concept of health ‘Does not include mental health’ isn’t true though, because you’re ignoring the toll on mental health if nothing is done to control a rapidly spreading virus. Your mental health loses, no matter what.
A global, heavily-connected and interdependent world of creatures with bodies, comes with huge costs and fragilities. The benefits aren’t some kind of innate human privelage. Humans are bodies, and we transmit disease. Microbes couldn’t give a damn about my BIOS.
I appreciate that utilitarian analyses of biological tradeoffs can very quickly start sounding dark and sinister, which I agree with. But precautionary measures neednt go down that road in the first place.
*”Microbes couldn’t give a damn about my BIOS.”*
Precisely. In this biopolitical regime, ones humanity ceases to matter.
No one is arguing that nothing is done, just that lockdowns and social distancing harm mental health. And I can tell you that my mental health would certainly not have suffered like it has had we not locked down. Though in fact there is no such thing as mental health if we reject the dualism of mind and body. There is just health (stress impairs immunity). Lockdowns therefore exist purportedly to protect health while damaging it. One may argue that health suffers less in the long-term as a result of locking down than not (though this is highly debatable), though even then not *my* health, only the health of the populace, the group, however defined and demarcated. My health doesn’t matter at all. Remember, my situation might become so intolerable that I kill myself, but from the biopolitical perspective of public health my death would not matter, only that the spread of this one disease is arrested.
Lockdowns are the least efficient, most expensive, last resort efforts by a government to reduce human connectivitty.
So long as one can’t appreciate how quickly things would get out of hand without hugely reducing connectivity, ones doomed to being uttery baffled by these measures, which will seem to be no more than an unnecessary trade-off.
You’re still seeing it as Lockdown + Collateral vs. No Lockdown but if a pandemic gets out of hand that quickly, you can wave everyone’s ‘mental health’ out of the door, before we even begin to talk about the other second order effects (let alone the unknown unknowns!).
It’s debatable insofar as ‘are lockdowns the most efficient way to reduce connectivity’ which clearly they aren’t, but clearly other measures weren’t working quickly enough (social distancing, mask usage, no large events, contact tracing, etc) and so the lockdowns arent surprising when the gov is up against it.
In what sense would my mental health be worse off had there not been a lockdown?
If no other measures have worked, and your hospitals are looking to be completely overwhelmed in a matter of weeks/days, if they aren’t already, your only choice left as a government is to lockdown, or, wait until so much chaos has ensued that people instinctively start distancing and wearing masks etc (like in places like Brazil where they have no options, and it’s already complete chaos). Maybe that would work better, who knows? But what government would take that risk?
Have a little browse for reporting on the events in busy parts of Brazil, and ask yourself, how is their mental health doing?
So long as you can’t really imagine how bad things can get and how quickly, in a pandemic, you will find measures like lockdowns utterly perplexing, unnecessary and insane.
You use the word ‘imagine’. This is the problem: lockdowns are justified by an unprovable negative: that things would be so much worse had they not been implemented. I’m interested to know whether this precautionary principal will be brought to bear on flu spikes in future years, as the NHS is reported to be struggling to cope most winters. What do you think? Lockdowns every year?
However, if the NHS is struggling to cope this would suggest there is a problem with the funding and resourcing of the NHS, not with people for feeling entitled to live a happy, prosperous, socially rich life. I find it truly bizarre that the political left are using the same logic as people on the right who place the onus on the citizen for burdening services. Apparently, the NHS no longer exists to protect me; it is my job to protect the NHS by sacrificing so much of my health, wealth and happiness. I find this logic grotesque.
You’re doing the equivalent of complaining about furniture which has been ruined by sprinklers, to prevent a small fire on the hob. We can argue about better methods to put out the fire, certainly. And sprinklers are an extreme way to tackle fires early on, but in this scenario, none of the other methods were having enough of an impact, ie masks, distancing, no large events, and so on. Once shit hath already hit the fan, what do you expect a government to do, when hospitals are in a state of total chaos, and more and more people are needing ventilators and medical attention, as they were in Italy 2020?
What we’re doing is arguing about how much damage *this* fire in particular would cause eventually. You have to ask yourself, what do you think it looks like, when every hospital is full, and millions of people need help, all at the same time? And this is where a modicum of imagination would take you a long way.
People can’t afford to just sit around and wait to see how many rooms get burnt down, see if it maybe just stops of its own accord, and then set off the sprinklers while the roof’s on fire.
You’re doing the equivalent of complaining that the furniture is getting ruined by the sprinklers, just to stop a small fire. We can argue about better methods than sprinklers, certainly. But once it’s clear that current measures aren’t slowing transmission down enough, as a government, the easiest though most expensive measure is to just shut everything down.
Government or no government, people can’t afford to sit around and wait to see how bad it gets, see if the fire maybe dies down of its own accord, and then turn on the sprinklers once the roof is on fire.
‘a problem with the funding and resourcing of the NHS’ is like saying ‘well, if we had more nurses, we could handle even more burns victims!!’
Hospitals aren’t for stopping transmission (even though that’s now partly their function). Reducing connectivity is what slows transmission.
To be clear, I think lockdowns are the end result of bad, early decisions, a sprinkler approach rather than putting out the fire on the hob before it spreads. But to try to claim that lockdowns have no effect is defective reasoning. A better question is How long can a country afford to rely on lockdowns and vaccines to reduce connectivity?
What you can learn from this pandemic is that the UK government won’t be prepared for the next one.
No lockdown = worse mental health is a strange, counter-intuitive assumption.
In many countries you can see that numbers of covid cases / deaths flattened off naturally, before lock down had a chance to take effect. Sweden, Uruguay, Japan didn’t bother with lock-downs, and Switzerland didn’t bother with a second one. None of those countries stands out as having had a more difficult time dealing with the virus than countries that did lock down. Their health services were not overwhelmed. So for that reason I do see lock downs as an unnecessary trade off.
The virus may be rapidly spreading but it doesn’t kill
Now that’s a hot take
Too true! I am writing a novel about just that, “killing to protect”.
Joe, you say, what was hitherto unimaginable has become acceptable, even semi-normalised. People are being incarcerated in hotels having committed no crime. It is illegal to leave the country. Public protest has been prohibited. Essentially, if a policy is supported by ‘the science’ or enacted in the name of ‘safety’, it goes largely unquestioned
This virus is a Trojan horse, being used as the excuse to exert dramatic control over our lives. Unelected medical officers and academics have astonishing power over us, exerting medical tyranny through ‘our political representatives’ who have become our masters, relishing exerting control via ’emergency laws’.
How has this happened?!?!
It’s bewildering that we’ve been trapped like this, subject to knee jerk incarceration in our homes or quarantine, muzzled with masks, for a virus that isn’t a problem for most people.
Some people suspect Australia has been a testing ground for the controls, closing its international and state borders, draconian lockdowns, particularly in Melbourne, with police menacing ordinary citizens protesting for their freedom.
We thought we were free people in liberal democracies, but it seems there has been a coordinated effort to put in place a regime that strips us of our autonomy.
Again, how did this happen? Where are the checks and balances that should have protected us from this coup?
We were never free, we just didn’t notice. For a while the leash placed around our necks was a little longer than it has historically been, but our overlords have decided to give it a good sharp yank and pull us all to heel. You’re free to do as your masters tell you.
Yes Mike, I wonder if it was an illusion…
And maybe we don’t want to ‘go back to normal’…
A ‘new normal’ is in order, and I don’t mean the ‘Great Reset’.
Do you personally want this “new normal”?
Recently this is a question I have ponder at length. I have to say you must be right.
Depends on how you define “free”. I’m content with accepting that it’s a matter of degree; in 1989 it was easy enough for millions of people in the Eastern Bloc countries and the Soviet Union to see that they were far less free than people in the West, and not like it at all. I think human beings are biologically hardwired to want to be as free from tyranny as possible; they’re always going to hate, and bitterly resist, impersonal, governmental restriction on their freedom of movement, commerce, and assembly and personal lives, because – and this is where the paradox is – those kinds of restrictions clash with our social nature. If we were naturally solitary animals, like tigers, instead of naturally social ones, like lions, it might be a lot easier for governments to control us.
Can I add that people who advocate stricter and stricter controls and lockdowns are generally people who have
1. large garden and other ‘luxuries’ that 90% of the country cannot even fathom! a swimming pool anyone?
2. have no life – no relative, no family, no love, no interests, no sports etc.
3. don’t know what isolation and loneliness feel like, and no apathy for others
Prof Whitty mentioned his mother in a care home early last year, and that he had to ‘sacrifice’ blah blah to save the NHS.
Then we hear this week how 2 elderly couples, married for over 60 years, and are not ALLOWED to see each other! Eventually when the one was offered a vaccine, he complained that he could be released to have the vaccine but now allowed to see his loving wife?
This is what the tragedy we are facing today. A so called liverbal PM, a democratic society and country, and a fairly elected government – all trying to kill all that we have lived for, all that we’ve voted them to protect….
Cannot say I entirely agree. I found that I have been practicing social distancing for at least 20 years and I am very much against stricter controls
It’s one thing to live like a hermit out of free choice, but another thing to be forced by the government to do so. I’m a bit of a solitary misanthrope myself, but that may just be due to my age and the fact that I had plenty of non-socially-distanced fun in my youth.
That’s appalling for you! We are so lucky here, all because of geography, nothing else
I am happy English speaker as well read Giorgio Agamben.
I have been re-reading all his articles (available in italian in quodlibet website) he wrote in the last year since the First prophetycal “the invention of and epidemy”
Well said!
Govts are treading a fine line between docile compliance and revolution. There is a lot of data analysis which shows that in fact lockdowns have little effect on the spread of this disease. That mortality rates in different countries depend far more on demographics and underlying health of populations than on any govt mandated measures. At present this information is largely supressed by mainstream media and govt bit it is there. People are restive. They are accepting this on the basis of a deal with govts. ‘ We will take the vaccine but we expect our lives to return to normal if we do ‘ If govts try to renege on that deal I predict civil unrest or at the very minimum simple non compliance to grow. Govts can only push people so far. And if they do not allow open debate and discussion they are in fact damaging their own ability to govern by consent in the longer term. And short of martial law they cannot enforce these rules without consent of the population.
I saw some anti-lockdown stickers on lampposts for the first time yesterday. People who were previously pro-lockdown are starting to grumble. People are snapping at shop staff who demand that they use hand sanitizer. There’s a general air of surliness and weariness about… We’re a long way from revolution, but another 3 months of this would put us a lot closer to it, and when/if the current lock down lifts, the next one will be met with active resistance by a lot of people.
I urge everyone to look at the euromomo graphs & see if they can find any correlation with lockdowns. Look at Portugal & Spain for example. A lot of countries didn’t even see any excess mortality in the spring outbreak. It’s bonkers.
I’m no covid denier but we need to be a lot more focussed on what we can & can’t do & how to target the most efficient means to ameliorate the effects of the disease & limit its spread to the most vulnerable rather than simply locking down willy-nilly in the hope of achieving zero virus – which apparently some people believe is possible. There is of course logically one certain way to eliminate the problem: eliminate the human race. I suspect there are a surprisingly large number among us who would consider this to be the best option.
And looking at epidemic curves presented together with when lockdowns and e.g. masks were introduced, you see that lockdowns had no impact.
No one is a covid denier. They do not exist. To question the strategies employed to get on top of this virus must be encouraged. Please people do not feel shame by challenging the current narrative.
But that’s what I am so surprised about! How the Brits just take it all with a stiff upper lip! I am a new immigrant and I am adapting fast. But how come people would protest and jump up and down for Captain Tom, the NHS, BLM, Extinction R etc but sit quietly at home like a mouse without a sound?
I am an active tennis player and a gym goer, and without these actives I am depressed and moody. I am not yet suicidal but the thoughts (without any history of such things) have been circling around in my head.
Sometimes I dream of myself self-isolating in front of No 10, with placards saying lockdowns kill lives! Depression kills.
There is no evidence that I’m aware of that shows you are at greater risk playing tennis on an outdoor court and, from all that is known about the way Covid spreads, it seems highly unlikely that anyone would contract it playing tennis, particularly if you’re sensible about distancing. It is the lack of logic/science around so many of the restrictions that is really galling.
Robin, you have identified one of the worst aspects of this problem. These restrictions and laws and policies are so often devoid of logic and science. How can I accept being ordered by my own government to give up my liberty to, say, walk outside, alone, for as many hours as I please, when I KNOW that it is literally impossible for me to contract, or to spread, this virus by doing so? Where is the rock-solid evidence and clear explanation of why this type of restriction is completely necessary? Where is the acknowledgment that any severe restrictions must be based on the strongest of reasons and lifted as soon as possible? Some of these rules make as much sense as being ordered by the Ministry of Silly Walks to use only a step-hop-step when in public—on alternate Tuesdays.
‘ We will take the vaccine but we expect our lives to return to normal if we do ‘
The UK Government is already ramping up project fear about the SA variant and is introducing more stringent measures, such as hotel quarantine. The AstraZeneca vaccine is not very effective against the SA variant, which is already circulating in the UK, so it might be some time yet before “our lives return to normal”.
I must say I have lost patience with these on-the-one-hand-on-the-other-hand considerations of so-called “lockdowns.” Sweden and the American state of South Dakota give the lie to the whole proposition. They never “locked down” or imposed mask mandates, and they have done just fine. They didn’t escape, they didn’t come up with a magic bullet, but their experience indicates that “lockdowns” had no meaningful effect on the course or impact of the pathogen.
It is quite clear to me now why Sweden and South Dakota (in particular its governor, Kristy Noem) have been the subject of such relentless attacks and derision. If they had given in to the bullying, we would have no evidence as to the true worthlessness of “lockdowns”, at least in terms of contagion control. But they didn’t, and so we do. They have exposed the lockdown nuts for what they really are.
The true purpose of “lockdown” is to punish and demoralize people, and at least in this respect, they have been highly effective. They have isolated and depressed people, wrecked small business, wrecked public education and so forth. They have brought hell on earth to ordinary people. Please see “The Thirty Tyrants” on the Tablet magazine website, tabletmag.com. It is chilling. The people behind these policies are evil.
Well said indeed Sir.
Sadly this has a very long way to go.
Here in the wretched UK the average age of C-19 death is a staggering 82.4, whilst life expectancy is 81.1.
With circa 3.5 million people over the age of 80, and a mere 100K culled so far, the ‘Reaper’ is going to have up his game considerably. Can we really wait that long? Or are we on the cusp of the Apocalypse, which frankly is long overdue.?
Would you be prepared to say that to the face of someone who lost a mother or father as a result of Covid?
Yes, but more delicately I would hope.
I’ll send you my address.
1 Corinthians 15:55-57.
I certainly would.
They’ll say yes, but judging by their moral stances, I think in reality they wouldn’t have the courage. They would, however, be happy to hide behind Bible quotes as a means of avoiding reality.
I would not. What I would offer is that I, personally, along with my husband, are in a somewhat vulnerable category if we contract this disease. So my life is on the line, and I oppose any unnecessary restrictions, period, even if it leads to my death. My husband feels the same. Any serious mandatory restrictions should be justified only by rock-solid evidence and should be tailored as narrowly as possible. Western democracies used to understand this principle. I don’t recognize this Cowardly New World and I do not want to live in it nor do I want our children to inherit a world broken by over-reactions and thoughtless policies.