What happens when the police disappear? In Montreal in 1969, a police strike resulted in 16 hours of chaos in which bank robberies, arson, looting and violence were so savage the army and Mounties were called in. More recently, in 2017, a police strike in the Brazilian city of Vitoria resulted in such brutal anarchy that 1,200 soldiers were sent in to restore order.
Closer to my home, after our nearest town got rid of its police station, the result was a wave of burglaries. The nearest police station is now 15 miles away, so even if you spot thieves actually robbing your garage it’ll take a minimum of 30 minutes for Plod to reach you, by which time they’re long gone.
Resident after resident posted furiously in our local Facebook group about the thefts. Eventually it was our turn: despite security measures our garage was cleaned out, with the burglars taking bikes, tools — even a spare set of alloy wheels.
The recent protests following the death of George Floyd have seen a growing chorus of voices calling for US cities to ‘defund’ or even to ‘abolish’ the police. Though ‘defund’ doesn’t necessarily mean ‘do away with altogether’, in the light of our own garage-robbery my first reaction was to raise an eyebrow. The reflexive conservative argument against getting rid of the police boils down to “it’s a stupid idea, because only force can keep human wickedness in check”. As happened in Vitoria, and Montreal, and my small town, conservatives argue, reducing a society’s ability to enforce the common good results in more crime.
Without the police, the argument goes, you’ll end up with vigilantes and private armies. Thomas Hobbes, one of the first political theorists to envisage society as a contract, argued in Leviathan (1651) that the only way to stop societies degenerating into a “war of all against all” was for the state to have a monopoly on violence. The state, he suggested, should have an absolute right to enforce what’s best for everyone, rather than one person’s particular interest. So to avoid general anarchy, we cede our personal desire to enforce our will, exact revenge (or retrieve our bikes) to officials charged with doing so in a fair and even-handed way.
In a small town, the criminal element is usually well-known, and sure enough, neighbours had seen the usual suspects loitering by our back gate in the small hours on the night it happened. Other eyewitnesses saw one of them passing one of our bikes over a fence into a vacant lot about 24 hours later. We even saw one of them riding my husband’s bike in the market square.
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SubscribeNo doubt the first thing that would happen would be private security operations to protect property (for the rich) fighting the criminal element. It is not clear what the final outcome would be but a massive increase in undeserved deaths among the downtrodden and oppressed would be certain.
One things for sure, if the Police were defunded/disbanded it would soon become crystal clear that deaths amongst the black community are, by and large, perpetrated by black people, not Cops.
During the ‘Honeymoon’ period there would be rampant and escalating crime as gang members stake out their patches, creating defensible boundaries that would make it hazardous for even peaceful people to cross.
One only needs to examine Glasgow and London gang culture from the past to understand that; and there was a considerable Police presence, although unaware of how to deal with it. They have since improved but there are still gangland areas in both cities.
Why would anyone expect gang culture to disappear just because the Police do? Gang culture exists not as a reaction to Policing, indeed, gang members are usually careful to avoid any interaction with the Police so their criminal enterprises remain intact. There is much easier prey to predate on. Confronting the Police for a fight isn’t profitable.
Would the community that called for disbanding take full responsibility for deaths, violence and property violations during the period between that realisation dawning, and the reintroduction of a Police force?
So things are getting back to normal as we come out of lockdown!
Well said.
We all know that if the police were removed from the streets of London it would turn into a lawless hell within minutes.
I’m perplexed how those on the left in the UK currently falling over themselves supporting BLM shouting and screaming for defunding and abolishing the police square that with shouting and screaming before the election last year for re-instating the 21,000 police officer cut by the Tories since 2010! Just in case they’ve forgotten their pledge to increase police funding and numbers it’s on page 43 of the 2019 Labour MaInfestó link below.
https://labour.org.uk/wp-co…
Judging by the recent performance of the police, the Tories were correct to cut their numbers by twenty one thousand. It’s a pity they didn’t go further.
What we need from the police is quality not quantity.
A good start would be to actively recruit many more military veterans, who at least know how to stand and fight and not run away.
However if d**k Cressida is the future, God help us!
Judging by the recent performance of the police, the Tories were correct to cut their numbers by twenty one thousand. It’s a pity they didn’t go further.
What we need from the police is quality not quantity.
A good start would be to actively recruit many more military veterans, who at least know how to stand and fight and not run away.
However if Ms Cressida d**k is the future, God help us!
I’m also perplexed. The UnHerd Censor obviously finds this a very sensitive subject, and thus I will be very surprised if this, my third attempt to challenge your opinion is successful.
We don’t need more Police, we need better Police. Quality not quantity. Perhaps recruiting more ex veterans would be the answer. They have the necessary courage, discipline and esprit de corps, that is so obviously lacking in today’s Police.
No doubt this idea is a breach of the Official Secrets Act or something like it, hence the trepidation of UnHerd, but none the less, root and branch reform of the Police is essential if the state is survive the turbulent times that lie ahead.
Do you not agree?
Yes indeed, in one bound we would be back in the 15th century.
They should give it try. Might wake Londoners up?
While the writer seems to grasp some of the problems of with Rousseau, she does not squarely confront the question whether his argument (that humanity is basically good but corrupted by society) was based on a simplistic and ignorant belief that the simplest societies were egalitarian and peaceful. Over the years those studying societies, and individual and group psychology, have demonstrated how naïve those views were.
The writer does not confront this basic issue of human and social nature. Second, she does not seem to grasp that, though the accumulation of wealth is not itself criminal in most western societies, this does not mean that the rich can do what they like. They may be better able to escape justice than the poor (though there is no evidence that a rich murderer is more likely to escape justice than member of a knife gang in the poorest areas of London), but the rich and poor are not subject to different laws. What the “Rousseau-ites” want is for the rich to be subject to additional laws (such as that they should be deprived of their wealth) on the basis of an assumption that all accumulation of wealth is exploitative. In this, the writer seems to miss the point that those she call Rousseau-ites are in fact influenced more by Marxism..
Last, she does not seem to grasp clearly the role of the police, at least in the UK. It is essential to our system that the role of the police, in giving force to the law, is carefully defined and limited. and that the police are themselves subject to the law. It is the role of Parliament to decide the laws, and for the courts to decide whether a person is guilty of breaking them. This is perhaps a key argument for not arming our police – arming police can easily blur the line between the proper role of the police and the role of the courts to decide whether an individual should be punished and what any punishment should be (within those permitted by law).
I think she actually grasps it fine. The issue may be more with you grasping what she wrote. She never said that police should be able to stand on someone’s neck for as long as they want. Nor did she say in any way that rich people can do what they like. That said, great job of arguing against things she didn’t say.
“This is perhaps a key argument for not arming our police – arming police can easily blur the line between the proper role of the police and the role of the courts to decide whether an individual should be punished and what any punishment should be (within those permitted by law).”
I think that you are proceeding based on a drastic overestimate of how often armed police officers fire their weapons.
In the U.S. – where it’s of course far more common for police to encounter suspects with firearms than in the UK – only about 1/4 of police officers have *ever* fired their weapon while on duty. https://www.pewresearch.org…
One can similarly easily find information about deaths at the hands of the police in the U.S. The data are not 100% clear, but the overall picture is that the total is about 1,000 people per year. The overwhelming majority are killed due to police shootings, and the vast majority of those people are themselves armed with firearms.
If the Police refuse to uphold the Law without fear or favour, can anyone advise where I get a gun and some hollow point rounds?
Walmart.
A more conspiratorial take on this is that the police are busy defunding themselves, by ignoring the type of crime described in the article and focusing on ‘non-crime’ incidents, thus undermining the public’s confidence in them and the public’s will to fund an organization that refuses to do what it’s actually there to do.
It’s hard to see this coming from anywhere else but the wokeists who now run major institutions like the police. A much reduced (or even abolished) police service wouldn’t solve anything, but it would give woke mobs the privilege of acting as judge, jury and executioner – which a conspiratorial soul might say is the ultimate aim.
The linked Arnade piece makes some decent points, but he also presents something of an exaggerated caricature of the situation, particularly his claim that the business community is “unchained and under regulated.”
For example, one can look at the total pages published annually in the Federal Register – https://regulatorystudies.c… – which covers new and proposed federal rules. The “massive deregulation” of the Trump administration has lowered that number from ~80,000 pages to ~60,000 pages, which is roughly the same level as the early 1990’s. Vastly more of those pages target the operation of business than individuals (whether lower-income or higher-income individuals).
One can certainly add discussion about points such as regulatory capture and the degree to which these regulations are manipulated by incumbents in their own favor, but it’s laughable to make the claim that American businesses operate in a largely “libertarian” environment.
David Cameron’s big society comes to mind – community empowerment as the local food bank “If you don’t riot, you don’t eat.”
Where did this idea of “defunding the police” originate from? The answer is George Soros- his Open Society Foundation has been bankrolling BLM for years with the explicit intention of abolishing the police.
@Unherd- you should look into this, it would be a great article. All the mainstream media won’t touch the subject. The BBC even aired a ridiculous documentary on George Soros showing how great he was and a victim of anti-semitism! It was, of course, a load of BS.
Ok. Let us presume that “communism” for all does away with property crime. What about the results of those other all too human vices greed, jealousy, lust, anger? Does an “equal” society prevent a car killing someone traveling at 50 mph when the safe speed is 30mph? Will a group hug cure those who are instinctive chancers? And how long will it take between the abolition of the police and the realisation of the new nirvana? What happens in between?
“Here we find a clue to why conservatives react so furiously to proposals to abolish the police: it’s founded in a radically un-conservative understanding of human nature.”
Straw Man Alert: this is NOT the conservative view, ie, that people are bad by nature. Conservatives actually believe that upstanding, honest citizens deserve protection.
‘So what do you do with the minority who refuse to be cured with kindness?’
Lock them up. And do the same to the bankers and lawyers etc. That aside, and based on her articles here, I’m sure Mary was happy to have ‘shared’ her possessions with those ‘disadvantaged’ youngsters. Whatever, until you fix the education system – and that will never happen – nothing is going to change.
Agreed, so it’s Consummatum est, as the greatest people ever to walk the face of this miserable planet would have said.
‘Defund the police’ simply means stop spending money on militarising a civilian body, and spend it where it can better benefit society, on housing and education.