Listen: Ian Birrell on whether China is to blame

Our contributor talks to Freddie Sayers about the country's shifting role in the Covid pandemic

Freddie Sayers caught up with Ian Birrell following his UnHerd article about China, and asked — how much is China to blame for this crisis? As a self-described liberal, he was asked if western powers had been too soft on China over the past decades and what the correct post-Covid response should be.

Have a listen above (apologies for the crackly line, we had some internet troubles) …

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