January 10, 2023 - 4:00pm
Just as America marks its two-year Jan 6 anniversary (and as Brazil makes sense of its own imitation on Jan 8th), a new poll has found that 20% of Americans now approve of the Capitol takeover. This marks an 11-percentage point increase from two years ago, when just 9% said they strongly or somewhat approved of the takeover.
That 20% of Americans — equivalent to one-fifth of the country — show some degree of approval for the Jan 6 takeover is an increase of last year’s finding (14%) and the year of the event, when it was only 9% approval.
Meanwhile, the percentage of Americans that disapprove of the takeover has fallen from 81% in 2021 to 64% today, while those who approve rises across all categories other than independents, even including Democrats.
YouGov finds that approval of the Capitol takeover increased by 13 percentage points among Democrats (from 3% to 16%) and views on the extent of Trump’s involvement have dropped from 76% believing that Trump bore a lot of responsibility to 69% today.
Explanations for this shift could include Jan 6 fatigue (polling was taken after the Jan 6 committee released its final report on 22nd December), receding memory of Trump, and increasing dissatisfaction with the current President. But given that views over Trump’s responsibility have remained at a static 39-40% over the past three years, is something else going on?
It might be possible to interpret these figures in the broader context of a growing loss of faith in all institutions across America, which only accelerated in the aftermath of Covid. From the church to the military to Congress itself, all have dropped precipitously. The rising approval of the Jan 6 takeover is the mirror of these trends.
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SubscribeThis poll is not real. Not because there was no polling, but because there was no insurrection. Something happened, surely. But insurrection? I don’t think so.
The value of this whole event is is showed what is behind the curtain we are not supposed to look behind.
The one hiding the introduction of political crime, show trials, thought crime. Swamp Uniparty, political capture by the extreme Left of the middle, the 99% agenda bias of MSM, Social Media, entertainment and education, corruption to the very heart of the FBI, collusion with the state security system and the Democrat party, The theft of Elections, the corruption of Pilosi………
Basically that we are in not in a free land anyone – not one with rule of law. We are half way to the nation becoming an oligarchy of the Corporatocracy by Hard Left political cadres bought and paid for by the elites who fund the political, corrupt, process.
God, do you ever realise what an echo chamber you live in, parroting every single cliché and stock phrase in the lexicon on the conspiratorial Right?
There is a lot wrong in the US, much if it the fault of the Left, but your side are hardly blameless. The Republicans would have won the mid terms convincingly had it not been for the antics of President Trump, an almost completely self obsessed individual who falls out with almost everyone on his OWN side! The faith in whom seems almost inexplicable, but hopefully is now finally waning.
I suspect that Trump had little to do with the mid-terms other than that he had backed various weak candidates in primaries and they just couldn’t cut it in a general election. (The vast majority of the people he backed won). Another big effect, probably, was mail-in balloting and ballot harvesting, especially in close races where the democrats have mastered this, while the republicans, who always play by the Marquess of Queensberry rules are clueless.
Why do you call some comments echo chamber, because they differ from your opinion ? Btw. I haven‘t heard anything about imprisonment, trials and condemnations from the Democratic Party of the horribly violent BLM rioters, especially in Portland and Seattle. Weren‘t they breaking into Portland‘s Court and trying to occupy it? I was in LA shortly after the BLM “demonstrations” and saw whole streets of destroyed shops, even the ones, with signs: “black owned”. Friend of mine was stuck in traffic during the riots and the driver in front of her was violently pulled out of his car. Thank God she was lucky and decided to quickly turn around to escape the violence. Where are the trials, Congressional inquires of all that lawlessness? Deafening silence …
You are so right. The destruction of a city for specious reasons should have been investigated and those responsible should been appropriately prosecuted. The reason January 6th was so important to the House members because the “insurgents” targeted the self-important legislators inside the building. Who cares about the public they supposedly represent?
You are so right. The destruction of a city for specious reasons should have been investigated and those responsible should been appropriately prosecuted. The reason January 6th was so important to the House members because the “insurgents” targeted the self-important legislators inside the building. Who cares about the public they supposedly represent?
I agree entirely that neither side is blameless. I agree also that it is hard, sometimes impossible, to tell who is on what side. I agree even that Pres. Trump is to be feared. I would only point out that Pres. Biden is to be feared more and that the call is not a close one.
imo it’s the collusion of the press to not report on many issues happening along with new voting rules. i mean we used to be able to get results on the same day. democrats have rigged the system. the mainstream press is the root of everything happening in the country and have been for decades. trump was bombastic but one thing he did was rip that mask off the press.
I suspect that Trump had little to do with the mid-terms other than that he had backed various weak candidates in primaries and they just couldn’t cut it in a general election. (The vast majority of the people he backed won). Another big effect, probably, was mail-in balloting and ballot harvesting, especially in close races where the democrats have mastered this, while the republicans, who always play by the Marquess of Queensberry rules are clueless.
Why do you call some comments echo chamber, because they differ from your opinion ? Btw. I haven‘t heard anything about imprisonment, trials and condemnations from the Democratic Party of the horribly violent BLM rioters, especially in Portland and Seattle. Weren‘t they breaking into Portland‘s Court and trying to occupy it? I was in LA shortly after the BLM “demonstrations” and saw whole streets of destroyed shops, even the ones, with signs: “black owned”. Friend of mine was stuck in traffic during the riots and the driver in front of her was violently pulled out of his car. Thank God she was lucky and decided to quickly turn around to escape the violence. Where are the trials, Congressional inquires of all that lawlessness? Deafening silence …
I agree entirely that neither side is blameless. I agree also that it is hard, sometimes impossible, to tell who is on what side. I agree even that Pres. Trump is to be feared. I would only point out that Pres. Biden is to be feared more and that the call is not a close one.
imo it’s the collusion of the press to not report on many issues happening along with new voting rules. i mean we used to be able to get results on the same day. democrats have rigged the system. the mainstream press is the root of everything happening in the country and have been for decades. trump was bombastic but one thing he did was rip that mask off the press.
God, do you ever realise what an echo chamber you live in, parroting every single cliché and stock phrase in the lexicon on the conspiratorial Right?
There is a lot wrong in the US, much if it the fault of the Left, but your side are hardly blameless. The Republicans would have won the mid terms convincingly had it not been for the antics of President Trump, an almost completely self obsessed individual who falls out with almost everyone on his OWN side! The faith in whom seems almost inexplicable, but hopefully is now finally waning.
The word “insurrection” wasn’t used in the poll question.
Well said! Most of these comments are from well down in the echo chamber.
That’s true, but it was constantly used by the Democrats’ Star Chamber in the house, and faithfully echoed by their friends in the media; and it had its effects. They are masters at misusing vocabulary to serve their political goals.
Well said! Most of these comments are from well down in the echo chamber.
That’s true, but it was constantly used by the Democrats’ Star Chamber in the house, and faithfully echoed by their friends in the media; and it had its effects. They are masters at misusing vocabulary to serve their political goals.
The word insurrection was not used in the article or the YouGov poll, but it is pretty revealing that you resort to it. “Ah, no planned insurrection – nothing to see here”.
There was an unprecedented violent assault on the centre of US government while the confirmation hearings we’re going on, ‘where ARE you Pelosi’ etc. This was unfortunately incited by President Trump following his (also unprecedented) refusal to accept the election result, despite every court finding against his claims of massive election fraud overturning the results.
It is true that most of the assailants were moronic dupes rather than armed terrorists, but it must have been terrifying to the small number of police defending the Capitol. You have a right to protest, not to invade and smash up public buildings and engage in threatening behaviour.
It is also true in retrospect that this did neither the Republicans or Trump himself any good, but it is pretty outrageous that such as assault was carried out, and even more so that so-called ‘conservatives’ defend it.
You should try and get your facts straight., The police were far from petrified other than the incompetent idiot who shot Ashley Bobitt at point blank range. Look at the videos of the police letting protesters in, chatting to them peacefully and happily, and basically not being too worried. Moreover, inside the capitol there was next to no damage at all.
We see a very strange lack of security for the building with even some Cap police off duty during an important event. The police also used tactics unwisely but tossing flash bangs into a crowd that couldn’t readily escape producing at least one injury. None of that should have happened – turning a noisy crowd into a mob, always unstable meanwhile megaphones chanting go into the building. All too neat in my opinion.
You should try and get your facts straight., The police were far from petrified other than the incompetent idiot who shot Ashley Bobitt at point blank range. Look at the videos of the police letting protesters in, chatting to them peacefully and happily, and basically not being too worried. Moreover, inside the capitol there was next to no damage at all.
We see a very strange lack of security for the building with even some Cap police off duty during an important event. The police also used tactics unwisely but tossing flash bangs into a crowd that couldn’t readily escape producing at least one injury. None of that should have happened – turning a noisy crowd into a mob, always unstable meanwhile megaphones chanting go into the building. All too neat in my opinion.
Indeed. It was basically a riot that got out of control due to insufficient security, a mistake that will surely not be repeated. It was actually smaller and less destructive than many of the George Floyd riots of summer 2020, but because it happened to people of status who had political power, it was swiftly suppressed, investigated, and criminally prosecuted. I wonder how many entrepreneurs who lost their businesses in summer of 2020 are among those who have changed their mind about Jan. 6th?
Do you really think it was a mistake? An insurrection was the answer to many prayers on the left. The whole inquiry seems to have been more or less wishful thinking.
Do you really think it was a mistake? An insurrection was the answer to many prayers on the left. The whole inquiry seems to have been more or less wishful thinking.
It was simply a riot, no more, no less.
The value of this whole event is is showed what is behind the curtain we are not supposed to look behind.
The one hiding the introduction of political crime, show trials, thought crime. Swamp Uniparty, political capture by the extreme Left of the middle, the 99% agenda bias of MSM, Social Media, entertainment and education, corruption to the very heart of the FBI, collusion with the state security system and the Democrat party, The theft of Elections, the corruption of Pilosi………
Basically that we are in not in a free land anyone – not one with rule of law. We are half way to the nation becoming an oligarchy of the Corporatocracy by Hard Left political cadres bought and paid for by the elites who fund the political, corrupt, process.
The word “insurrection” wasn’t used in the poll question.
The word insurrection was not used in the article or the YouGov poll, but it is pretty revealing that you resort to it. “Ah, no planned insurrection – nothing to see here”.
There was an unprecedented violent assault on the centre of US government while the confirmation hearings we’re going on, ‘where ARE you Pelosi’ etc. This was unfortunately incited by President Trump following his (also unprecedented) refusal to accept the election result, despite every court finding against his claims of massive election fraud overturning the results.
It is true that most of the assailants were moronic dupes rather than armed terrorists, but it must have been terrifying to the small number of police defending the Capitol. You have a right to protest, not to invade and smash up public buildings and engage in threatening behaviour.
It is also true in retrospect that this did neither the Republicans or Trump himself any good, but it is pretty outrageous that such as assault was carried out, and even more so that so-called ‘conservatives’ defend it.
Indeed. It was basically a riot that got out of control due to insufficient security, a mistake that will surely not be repeated. It was actually smaller and less destructive than many of the George Floyd riots of summer 2020, but because it happened to people of status who had political power, it was swiftly suppressed, investigated, and criminally prosecuted. I wonder how many entrepreneurs who lost their businesses in summer of 2020 are among those who have changed their mind about Jan. 6th?
It was simply a riot, no more, no less.
This poll is not real. Not because there was no polling, but because there was no insurrection. Something happened, surely. But insurrection? I don’t think so.
The most tragic aspect of Jan. 6 is that a large number of Americans went to the Capitol to seek redress of grievances; one was shot and killed; many were later locked up without bail then found guilty in show trials. Congress wouldn’t even consider giving their issue any attention.
Yes, our faith in institutions is nil.
Many of them went in tactical gear, they attacked the Capitol police, set up gallows and chanted that they wanted to hang Mike Pence. The one who was shot was smashing the windows of the entry to the chamber, maddened with rage and bloodlust (anyone who has seen the videos that she made of herself ranting about the Q nonsense could see that she was right on the edge).
So, no, they weren’t just regular citizens with a grievance. They were a set of violent deluded clowns who were trying to reverse the democratic process because their guy lost in a landslide.
The ones who are in jail can consider themselves fortunate that the police restrained themselves from using deadly force which would have been completely justified.
Your faith in institutions is nil because you believe people like Trump, gold help you…
The videos really don’t show much evidence of violence. Many were let in by the police and were chatting to the police, including Shaman man and the guy sitting at Pelosi’s desk with his feet on the desk. Further, there was almost zero damage inside. So actually nowhere near as violent as has been made out. It’s worth mentioning, that in a country where there are almost more guns than people, a hostile crowd could easily have taken over the Capitol and razed it to the ground just as the protesters did when they stormed the Bastille on July 14, 1789. That isn’t to condone in any way what happened, but it’s best not to exaggerate what in effect was probably a perfectly legitimate protest that went out of control (as such protests almost invariably do).
As for the point blank shooting of Ashley Bobbitt, had the policeman been white rather than black, and she been black rather than white, the policeman would be in jail. The fact is that the policeman in question panicked and his panic and completely inappropriate action cost a vet, who had served her country honorably in Iraq, her life.
“That isn’t to condone in any way what happened”
Perhaps not, but you’re certainly seeking to excuse it.
As condemnations go, that’s pathetic.
It’s obvious where your sympathy lies.
You’ve just written a whiney apologia for de facto treason. The gist of your post is that we should be grateful the gullible rednecks didn’t really cut loose. That is, thanking them for their public-spirited restraint instead of stripping them of citizenship and deporting the lot of them. The main reason why they didn’t was because everyone inside had fled, and because the overwhelmed cops stepped aside. Whether they would have been so kid-gloves with a largely black crowd is very doubtful. And if those loons – one of whom later attacked Pelosi’s elderly husband with a claw hammer and hospitalised him, to sniggering public approval from the draft-dodging Trump and his frat-boy bonehead son – had found the terrified politicians, cowering in a room missed by the crazies (thanks to the quick thinking of a security guard, who led them down a false trail), you’re being very naive if you think that e.g. Pelosi, or even Pence, would not have been injured, at least.
If you want permanent GOP rule in the US, then do us a favour, spare us the weasel-words and at least have the courage of your convictions.
” And if those loons – one of whom later attacked Pelosi’s elderly husband with a claw hammer and hospitalised him…” this statment alone delegitimizes your whole rant. do you actually live here? know anything about san francisco? know anything about this assailant or what his political leanings were?
No chance of any permanent GOP presence unless they get better at lawfare and ballot creation and harvesting.
” And if those loons – one of whom later attacked Pelosi’s elderly husband with a claw hammer and hospitalised him…” this statment alone delegitimizes your whole rant. do you actually live here? know anything about san francisco? know anything about this assailant or what his political leanings were?
No chance of any permanent GOP presence unless they get better at lawfare and ballot creation and harvesting.
Small correction – there are way more guns than people in the USA, not almost more…! Still, just as well those rioters were unable to find a politician they didn’t like to lynch.
“That isn’t to condone in any way what happened”
Perhaps not, but you’re certainly seeking to excuse it.
As condemnations go, that’s pathetic.
It’s obvious where your sympathy lies.
You’ve just written a whiney apologia for de facto treason. The gist of your post is that we should be grateful the gullible rednecks didn’t really cut loose. That is, thanking them for their public-spirited restraint instead of stripping them of citizenship and deporting the lot of them. The main reason why they didn’t was because everyone inside had fled, and because the overwhelmed cops stepped aside. Whether they would have been so kid-gloves with a largely black crowd is very doubtful. And if those loons – one of whom later attacked Pelosi’s elderly husband with a claw hammer and hospitalised him, to sniggering public approval from the draft-dodging Trump and his frat-boy bonehead son – had found the terrified politicians, cowering in a room missed by the crazies (thanks to the quick thinking of a security guard, who led them down a false trail), you’re being very naive if you think that e.g. Pelosi, or even Pence, would not have been injured, at least.
If you want permanent GOP rule in the US, then do us a favour, spare us the weasel-words and at least have the courage of your convictions.
Small correction – there are way more guns than people in the USA, not almost more…! Still, just as well those rioters were unable to find a politician they didn’t like to lynch.
I watched it live on TV from cameras inside the Capitol and have seen the videos of the action outside. There was definitely violence, but it was no worse than that on many college campuses after a big football win/loss. None of the protestors was armed. They should have been cited for trespassing, illegally entering a govt facility, and destruction of govt property. Normally those charges are met with 30 days or simply fines. These people are being made an example of for political purposes. While I do not condone the riotous actions of the crowd, their treatment is a scandal.
Remember how harshly those who rioted all across the country from June-Sept of 2020 were treated? Very very few were arrested or given significant jail time despite many thousands of fires, attacks on police, destruction of govt property, and looting.
Either we are all equal under the law or one group needs to overturn the perps of these injustices.
“None of the protestors were armed.”
That’s a lie:
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2023/01/january-6-armed-insurrection-congress-guns-trump-lie/
Downvotes! Funny how some people just hate the truth!
It’s probably for the source, Mother Jones
It’s probably for the source, Mother Jones
mother jones…yah they are a great source of unbiased info (snicker)
You chose not to address Kay’s comments because you have no legitimate response outside of an apology. The Pelosi attacker was not a Republican and certainly not a MAGA guy. Either you are a liar or a duped imbecile,
Are you familiar with the term lolcow?
Downvotes! Funny how some people just hate the truth!
mother jones…yah they are a great source of unbiased info (snicker)
You chose not to address Kay’s comments because you have no legitimate response outside of an apology. The Pelosi attacker was not a Republican and certainly not a MAGA guy. Either you are a liar or a duped imbecile,
Are you familiar with the term lolcow?
“None of the protestors were armed.”
That’s a lie:
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2023/01/january-6-armed-insurrection-congress-guns-trump-lie/
see the problem is that there are videos showing both narratives going on at once but only one side is being shown to the vast majority of people who aren’t really paying that much attention. the average age of the crowd was close to retirement age and no one was armed with guns.
“Set up gallows”? The only gallows set up was on the Mall over a quarter mile (5 minute walk) away from the Capitol. It was a non-functional prop like you might see on Halloween in someone’s yard. Nothing serious about it.
The people yelling “Hang Mike Pence” had no intention of actually hanging Mike Pence. (Just like those who say “[F-word] Joe Biden” have no intention of having carnal relations with Joe Biden.) They were expressing their displeasure. If they had been serious, they would have been charged by now for threatening a public official.
(And you should hear what some people say about Donald Trump, like Kathy Griffin posing holding a bloody decapitated head and Madonna saying she wanted to blow up the White House.)
Ashli Babbitt was far from maddened with rage and bloodlust when she went through the window. She was acting calm and nonthreatening. She had no weapon. The black police officer who panicked and killed her still maintains that by killing her he saved “countless lives”. That is delusional.
If you want to see a real riot, look at what happened on January 20, 2017 in Washington DC after Donald Trump was inaugurated. Protesters attacked the police with rocks, bottles, flares, pieces of cement blocks, and liquids. They were armed with crowbars, which they used to damage buildings and other property, and they set fire to cars in the street. Hundreds of people were arrested. None received any punishment of the kind given to even the mildest of the January 6 protesters.
Donald Trump knew that security was needed at the January 6 protest in case some protesters or anti-protesters got heated. He asked his acting Defense Secretary to make sure that 10,000 National Guardsmen were there for crowd control. His request was turned down.
The January 6 riot was a protest that got out of control. It is laughable to call it an insurrection, which is a serious crime that not a single protester has been charged with. There was pushing and shoving, pepper spraying, and some other violence. Some protesters were out of line and deserve a few days or months of jail time. But the sentences being handed out are way out of proportion to the crime committed. And the great majority of those charged were (like Ashli Babbitt) not violent.
We are supposed to be a country where the criminal law is never used as a weapon to attack our political enemies. Sadly, the Democrats have abandoned that principle, to their shame.
Ashley Babbit was a crazed, swivel eyed loon with murder on her mind. She was killed in the commission of a felony and the officer who shot her is a hero.
Its interesting how many of the commenters who seem to support Babbit choose to mention the race of the hero who dispatched of her. I wonder why that might be….
How very odd. Apparently Babbit was berating the police behind her for not acting. She was trying to stop the guy battering the door. No idea why she tried climbing through the window but was halfway when shot through the neck by a frightened policeman who had a previous charge for being too casual about his weapon. Race only matters because that was a likely reason he has not been disciplined.
“Race only matters because that was a likely reason he has not been disciplined.”
Because you think black people are less likely to be victimized by the US justice system?!?!? LOL!That’s a novel concept!
Babbit was a crazed MAGA Qanon nutcase who was shot during the commission of a felony. What part of that don’t you get?
“Race only matters because that was a likely reason he has not been disciplined.”
Because you think black people are less likely to be victimized by the US justice system?!?!? LOL!That’s a novel concept!
Babbit was a crazed MAGA Qanon nutcase who was shot during the commission of a felony. What part of that don’t you get?
Odd for Ashli Babbitt to have murder on her mind and completely forget to bring a murder weapon. What was she going to kill anyone with, the flag she had draped around her?
The black police officer had no right to shoot an unarmed woman even if she was committing a felony. He could only shoot if he reasonably thought his life or that of another person was in danger. He still thinks that he saved countless lives by killing her. That’s not a reasonable belief — that’s delusional.
The man is a coward.
(I mentioned that a black police officer shot a white Trump supporter. That’s a fact to be considered. If a white police officer had shot and killed an unarmed black Black Lives Matter supporter, that too should be considered in deciding whether the police officer acted reasonably. It might be relevant, or it may not be relevant.)
How very odd. Apparently Babbit was berating the police behind her for not acting. She was trying to stop the guy battering the door. No idea why she tried climbing through the window but was halfway when shot through the neck by a frightened policeman who had a previous charge for being too casual about his weapon. Race only matters because that was a likely reason he has not been disciplined.
Odd for Ashli Babbitt to have murder on her mind and completely forget to bring a murder weapon. What was she going to kill anyone with, the flag she had draped around her?
The black police officer had no right to shoot an unarmed woman even if she was committing a felony. He could only shoot if he reasonably thought his life or that of another person was in danger. He still thinks that he saved countless lives by killing her. That’s not a reasonable belief — that’s delusional.
The man is a coward.
(I mentioned that a black police officer shot a white Trump supporter. That’s a fact to be considered. If a white police officer had shot and killed an unarmed black Black Lives Matter supporter, that too should be considered in deciding whether the police officer acted reasonably. It might be relevant, or it may not be relevant.)
Ashley Babbit was a crazed, swivel eyed loon with murder on her mind. She was killed in the commission of a felony and the officer who shot her is a hero.
Its interesting how many of the commenters who seem to support Babbit choose to mention the race of the hero who dispatched of her. I wonder why that might be….
The performative gallows built to half scale that couldn’t hold the weight of a child. Go back to drama class.
The videos really don’t show much evidence of violence. Many were let in by the police and were chatting to the police, including Shaman man and the guy sitting at Pelosi’s desk with his feet on the desk. Further, there was almost zero damage inside. So actually nowhere near as violent as has been made out. It’s worth mentioning, that in a country where there are almost more guns than people, a hostile crowd could easily have taken over the Capitol and razed it to the ground just as the protesters did when they stormed the Bastille on July 14, 1789. That isn’t to condone in any way what happened, but it’s best not to exaggerate what in effect was probably a perfectly legitimate protest that went out of control (as such protests almost invariably do).
As for the point blank shooting of Ashley Bobbitt, had the policeman been white rather than black, and she been black rather than white, the policeman would be in jail. The fact is that the policeman in question panicked and his panic and completely inappropriate action cost a vet, who had served her country honorably in Iraq, her life.
I watched it live on TV from cameras inside the Capitol and have seen the videos of the action outside. There was definitely violence, but it was no worse than that on many college campuses after a big football win/loss. None of the protestors was armed. They should have been cited for trespassing, illegally entering a govt facility, and destruction of govt property. Normally those charges are met with 30 days or simply fines. These people are being made an example of for political purposes. While I do not condone the riotous actions of the crowd, their treatment is a scandal.
Remember how harshly those who rioted all across the country from June-Sept of 2020 were treated? Very very few were arrested or given significant jail time despite many thousands of fires, attacks on police, destruction of govt property, and looting.
Either we are all equal under the law or one group needs to overturn the perps of these injustices.
see the problem is that there are videos showing both narratives going on at once but only one side is being shown to the vast majority of people who aren’t really paying that much attention. the average age of the crowd was close to retirement age and no one was armed with guns.
“Set up gallows”? The only gallows set up was on the Mall over a quarter mile (5 minute walk) away from the Capitol. It was a non-functional prop like you might see on Halloween in someone’s yard. Nothing serious about it.
The people yelling “Hang Mike Pence” had no intention of actually hanging Mike Pence. (Just like those who say “[F-word] Joe Biden” have no intention of having carnal relations with Joe Biden.) They were expressing their displeasure. If they had been serious, they would have been charged by now for threatening a public official.
(And you should hear what some people say about Donald Trump, like Kathy Griffin posing holding a bloody decapitated head and Madonna saying she wanted to blow up the White House.)
Ashli Babbitt was far from maddened with rage and bloodlust when she went through the window. She was acting calm and nonthreatening. She had no weapon. The black police officer who panicked and killed her still maintains that by killing her he saved “countless lives”. That is delusional.
If you want to see a real riot, look at what happened on January 20, 2017 in Washington DC after Donald Trump was inaugurated. Protesters attacked the police with rocks, bottles, flares, pieces of cement blocks, and liquids. They were armed with crowbars, which they used to damage buildings and other property, and they set fire to cars in the street. Hundreds of people were arrested. None received any punishment of the kind given to even the mildest of the January 6 protesters.
Donald Trump knew that security was needed at the January 6 protest in case some protesters or anti-protesters got heated. He asked his acting Defense Secretary to make sure that 10,000 National Guardsmen were there for crowd control. His request was turned down.
The January 6 riot was a protest that got out of control. It is laughable to call it an insurrection, which is a serious crime that not a single protester has been charged with. There was pushing and shoving, pepper spraying, and some other violence. Some protesters were out of line and deserve a few days or months of jail time. But the sentences being handed out are way out of proportion to the crime committed. And the great majority of those charged were (like Ashli Babbitt) not violent.
We are supposed to be a country where the criminal law is never used as a weapon to attack our political enemies. Sadly, the Democrats have abandoned that principle, to their shame.
The performative gallows built to half scale that couldn’t hold the weight of a child. Go back to drama class.
Many of them went in tactical gear, they attacked the Capitol police, set up gallows and chanted that they wanted to hang Mike Pence. The one who was shot was smashing the windows of the entry to the chamber, maddened with rage and bloodlust (anyone who has seen the videos that she made of herself ranting about the Q nonsense could see that she was right on the edge).
So, no, they weren’t just regular citizens with a grievance. They were a set of violent deluded clowns who were trying to reverse the democratic process because their guy lost in a landslide.
The ones who are in jail can consider themselves fortunate that the police restrained themselves from using deadly force which would have been completely justified.
Your faith in institutions is nil because you believe people like Trump, gold help you…
The most tragic aspect of Jan. 6 is that a large number of Americans went to the Capitol to seek redress of grievances; one was shot and killed; many were later locked up without bail then found guilty in show trials. Congress wouldn’t even consider giving their issue any attention.
Yes, our faith in institutions is nil.
I suspect the explanation for these poll numbers is the Dems have flogged the Jan 6 horse to death. Jan 6 was an appalling incident although very far from an organized insurrection. For two years the Dems have politicized it to the hilt and everyone can see that. People have become jaded about the Jan 6 committee, and tired of the political theatre. As the author also suggests, there is a huge loss of faith in all institutions of government.
In another Unherd article today, Peter Franklin argues that the future lies with competent populists who will shake up the system and deliver real change. I suspect he’s right, although, having been blindsided by Trump in 2016, the Establishment will now attempt to destroy any credible, populist candidate.
The only “appalling” aspect of this event is that it took place in the US Capital building, rather than on city streets as did all of the 2020 riots.
The only “appalling” aspect of this event is that it took place in the US Capital building, rather than on city streets as did all of the 2020 riots.
I suspect the explanation for these poll numbers is the Dems have flogged the Jan 6 horse to death. Jan 6 was an appalling incident although very far from an organized insurrection. For two years the Dems have politicized it to the hilt and everyone can see that. People have become jaded about the Jan 6 committee, and tired of the political theatre. As the author also suggests, there is a huge loss of faith in all institutions of government.
In another Unherd article today, Peter Franklin argues that the future lies with competent populists who will shake up the system and deliver real change. I suspect he’s right, although, having been blindsided by Trump in 2016, the Establishment will now attempt to destroy any credible, populist candidate.
Yougov understood this math: an increase from 9% to 20% is not an 11% increase. Its an 11 percentage point increase. As a percentage, its actually an increase of over 120%.
Yougov understood this math: an increase from 9% to 20% is not an 11% increase. Its an 11 percentage point increase. As a percentage, its actually an increase of over 120%.
I found this very curious when I first read about it a few days ago, especially the increase in support by Dems.
I think Jan. 6 fatigue plays a role, although I never paid much attention to the Dem committee. No question people have about zero trust in the institutions.
the Jan 6 committee is just a witch trial, a Stalinist Show Trial – it is the embodiment of political corruption. People begin to see that, even though they get no real info from the MSM, but thousands of lies.
Oh dear oh dear. Do you think a mob storming the Capitol is OK?
The US supported this in Ukraine, where an armed gang overthrew the legitimately elected President.
What? A couple of elections that were as fair as they could be ended up with a president, Zelenski, clearly the popular choice. There was no mob stormy parliament and there is ZERO evidence of serious US involvement – except of Trump trying to influence Zelenski to root around his political opponents.
Tony, that’s patently untrue.
EuroMaidan turned extremely violent, the President fled the country under fire, and the insurgent faction seized the levers of government.
As to the US involvement, there is plenty of evidence of that, both by the State Dept. (the leaked calls between Victoria Nuland and the Ambassador are still online), and by the USAID (which everyone knows is a CIA front used for colour revolutions and other mischief abroad).
Tony, that’s patently untrue.
EuroMaidan turned extremely violent, the President fled the country under fire, and the insurgent faction seized the levers of government.
As to the US involvement, there is plenty of evidence of that, both by the State Dept. (the leaked calls between Victoria Nuland and the Ambassador are still online), and by the USAID (which everyone knows is a CIA front used for colour revolutions and other mischief abroad).
What? A couple of elections that were as fair as they could be ended up with a president, Zelenski, clearly the popular choice. There was no mob stormy parliament and there is ZERO evidence of serious US involvement – except of Trump trying to influence Zelenski to root around his political opponents.
The US supported this in Ukraine, where an armed gang overthrew the legitimately elected President.
Oh dear oh dear. Do you think a mob storming the Capitol is OK?
the Jan 6 committee is just a witch trial, a Stalinist Show Trial – it is the embodiment of political corruption. People begin to see that, even though they get no real info from the MSM, but thousands of lies.
I found this very curious when I first read about it a few days ago, especially the increase in support by Dems.
I think Jan. 6 fatigue plays a role, although I never paid much attention to the Dem committee. No question people have about zero trust in the institutions.
One question, on behalf of everyone who has encountered high levels of strictly enforced security in the most benign of US tourist attractions…
With an unruly gathering right outside, who opened the doors to one of the most important institutions in US, if not the world?
While we’re at it, given the powers that be have termed this an “insurrection”, a full timeline please of the security questions/requests that were asked on the day, and their responses.
Yes, Trump Trump Trump and all that, but there seems to have been some seriously incompetent adults in charge that day.
the dems have this play down pat since the demonstrations at charlottesville; let the mob come and do their thing no matter who gets hurt and then blame the conservatives. in some cases, help them plan it…
the dems have this play down pat since the demonstrations at charlottesville; let the mob come and do their thing no matter who gets hurt and then blame the conservatives. in some cases, help them plan it…
One question, on behalf of everyone who has encountered high levels of strictly enforced security in the most benign of US tourist attractions…
With an unruly gathering right outside, who opened the doors to one of the most important institutions in US, if not the world?
While we’re at it, given the powers that be have termed this an “insurrection”, a full timeline please of the security questions/requests that were asked on the day, and their responses.
Yes, Trump Trump Trump and all that, but there seems to have been some seriously incompetent adults in charge that day.
The endless Congressional hearings are probably more responsible for the growing approval than any of the factors mentioned. A bad idea and a comically bad execution; watching our “representatives” squandering their time while there’s so much they should be doing instead…Don’t get me started!
The endless Congressional hearings are probably more responsible for the growing approval than any of the factors mentioned. A bad idea and a comically bad execution; watching our “representatives” squandering their time while there’s so much they should be doing instead…Don’t get me started!
It might be possible that reality is kicking in. Trump’s influence over events was overstated by the media, as was the seriousness of the events. Media hysteria and groupthink is more of a problem than a disorganized rabble of borderline tourists entering the capitol building uninvited (somehow evading the brilliant security services)
It might be possible that reality is kicking in. Trump’s influence over events was overstated by the media, as was the seriousness of the events. Media hysteria and groupthink is more of a problem than a disorganized rabble of borderline tourists entering the capitol building uninvited (somehow evading the brilliant security services)
It’s simple: Jan 6 Committee. Anytime you oversell, there’s going to be a pushback, and this overselling was worthy of the worst used car or Hollywood hack salesman. Had they allowed Republican voices on the committee, as the Democrats did in Watergate, Trump might have been in trouble. But Pelosi couldn’t resist placing her thumb on the scales. Even Americans, inured as they are to sales pitches as a way of life, couldn’t be sold on this prime time TV extravaganza. .
The disrespectful demonstrators (definitely not insurrectionists) were just the thin end of the wedge of distrust of the machinations going on in DC. As more national and state-levels election errors, irregularities and anomalies come to light, not to mention more unconstitutional conduct in the alphabet agencies, the national gorge is rising. Abe Lincoln had observed, more than a century before, “You can’t fool all the people all the time.”
American elections are some of the most corrupt in the west. There have been more than 1,100 voter fraud convictions since 1982. And they’re all guilty – Republicans and Democrats.
American elections are some of the most corrupt in the west. There have been more than 1,100 voter fraud convictions since 1982. And they’re all guilty – Republicans and Democrats.
The disrespectful demonstrators (definitely not insurrectionists) were just the thin end of the wedge of distrust of the machinations going on in DC. As more national and state-levels election errors, irregularities and anomalies come to light, not to mention more unconstitutional conduct in the alphabet agencies, the national gorge is rising. Abe Lincoln had observed, more than a century before, “You can’t fool all the people all the time.”
It’s simple: Jan 6 Committee. Anytime you oversell, there’s going to be a pushback, and this overselling was worthy of the worst used car or Hollywood hack salesman. Had they allowed Republican voices on the committee, as the Democrats did in Watergate, Trump might have been in trouble. But Pelosi couldn’t resist placing her thumb on the scales. Even Americans, inured as they are to sales pitches as a way of life, couldn’t be sold on this prime time TV extravaganza. .
This is what institutional failure looks like. When people come to believe their institutions are failing, they are more willing to see them destroyed. The last 2 years have provided ample evidence that American institutions (whether educational, media, political, corporate, or bureaucratic) are simply not as competent as we have been led to believe.
We also shouldn’t overstate this. Americans disapprove of the Jan 6 riot (and that’s all it was) by a 3:1 margin at least. Clearly most people still believe their democratic institutions are worth something.
This is what institutional failure looks like. When people come to believe their institutions are failing, they are more willing to see them destroyed. The last 2 years have provided ample evidence that American institutions (whether educational, media, political, corporate, or bureaucratic) are simply not as competent as we have been led to believe.
We also shouldn’t overstate this. Americans disapprove of the Jan 6 riot (and that’s all it was) by a 3:1 margin at least. Clearly most people still believe their democratic institutions are worth something.
Hard to feel much sympathy for the devil when he’s not cowering in his posh office and instead back to deviling about as usual. Sadly, the author is right. When the shock of the initial event faded and life returned to normal, Americans by and large remembered they didn’t like or trust most of these people before Jan 6th and the ‘insurrection’ did basically nothing to change that beyond generating momentary sympathy for human beings getting attacked by other human beings, nor did it impact the government’s policy in any meaningful way, merely spawning more endless inconclusive Congressional inquisitions produced more for public spectacle than for any practical purpose.
Hard to feel much sympathy for the devil when he’s not cowering in his posh office and instead back to deviling about as usual. Sadly, the author is right. When the shock of the initial event faded and life returned to normal, Americans by and large remembered they didn’t like or trust most of these people before Jan 6th and the ‘insurrection’ did basically nothing to change that beyond generating momentary sympathy for human beings getting attacked by other human beings, nor did it impact the government’s policy in any meaningful way, merely spawning more endless inconclusive Congressional inquisitions produced more for public spectacle than for any practical purpose.
It’s naive to the point of silliness to draw the title’s conclusion from responses to that question. What’s interesting to me is that they obviously distilled five voices down to three, combing the “stronglys” and “slightlys” on both sides. Had they left them separate we might have been able to tell what is going on. Had it been increases in “slightly approve” it would suggest an actual change of opinion about the incident. But changes from strongly disapprove to strongly approve would surely indicate a slap at the handling of it.
It’s naive to the point of silliness to draw the title’s conclusion from responses to that question. What’s interesting to me is that they obviously distilled five voices down to three, combing the “stronglys” and “slightlys” on both sides. Had they left them separate we might have been able to tell what is going on. Had it been increases in “slightly approve” it would suggest an actual change of opinion about the incident. But changes from strongly disapprove to strongly approve would surely indicate a slap at the handling of it.
Doesn’t distance always dim some shock?
Obviously only looking from across the Atlantic, but the fact the epicentre of democracy was attacked/invaded, and seemed largely undefended despite the rally not being a surprise, remains one of the most shocking and worrying political events many this side of the ocean ever seen.
Maybe American cousins a bit more sanguine about it 2 yrs on.
epicentre of democracy – for all the faults, problems, this is still how the US is seen. And jeez it’s not Moscow or Beijing thank goodness
Doesn’t distance always dim some shock?
Obviously only looking from across the Atlantic, but the fact the epicentre of democracy was attacked/invaded, and seemed largely undefended despite the rally not being a surprise, remains one of the most shocking and worrying political events many this side of the ocean ever seen.
Maybe American cousins a bit more sanguine about it 2 yrs on.
epicentre of democracy – for all the faults, problems, this is still how the US is seen. And jeez it’s not Moscow or Beijing thank goodness
“. . . 20% of Americans–equivalent to one fifth of the country . . .”
Indeed.
Quel surprise.
“. . . 20% of Americans–equivalent to one fifth of the country . . .”
Indeed.
Quel surprise.
I simply don’t believe many polls any more. I believe that there are many alienated conservatives who simply tell pollsters shocking things like “I support the Jan 6th riots!” just to be trangressive. Why would more people support them now, than before?
This trend was apparent to me when we read things like “half of all Republican voters” believed the 2020 election was stolen from Trump. Nonsense. If hundreds of millions of Americans truly believed that, we would have been shattered by violent civil unrest. Instead, we had right wingers tweaking Biden for his age.
Of course they do. America is on the way out. There is no unifying national narrative there any more. They hate each other. Some MAGA Republicans have more time for Putin than they do for Biden. It’s over folks.
yah okay well putin never called us racists, homophobes or terrorists but ole joe sure did that with a third reich inspired background on national telly. but you are dead on about social cohesion but that’s what happens when there is no longer a shared history, language or culture or generations of people have been taught that all of it was and is evil.
yah okay well putin never called us racists, homophobes or terrorists but ole joe sure did that with a third reich inspired background on national telly. but you are dead on about social cohesion but that’s what happens when there is no longer a shared history, language or culture or generations of people have been taught that all of it was and is evil.
Of course they do. America is on the way out. There is no unifying national narrative there any more. They hate each other. Some MAGA Republicans have more time for Putin than they do for Biden. It’s over folks.
Talk about journalistic distortions: Why did Unherd choose to use the inverse of the YouGov poll report? Deliberately focusing on the negative and sensational? Who, us?
That being said, as a U.S. citizen, it is a sad commentary on American public life if any poll found that even 5% of the population supported the despicable events of January 6, 2021. No American should support such lawlessness and idiocy.
By your own logic–if Jan 6 was as obviously despicable as you say–then indeed the headline contains the most surprising aspect of the story. (In any case, au contraire, I view the outcome of this poll as positive.)
Must polls mean what they say? I didn’t participate (in either the protest or the poll), but I can see myself answering that I approved of Jan 6, if only to register my disgust with the prevailing media coverage, Jan 6 committee, and hysterical “threat to democracy” rhetoric. It’s likely other respondents feel the same, so be consoled that your fellow Americans might be slightly less despicable–or deplorable–than the poll results suggest to you.
That’s my guess in interpreting the poll results also.
That’s my guess in interpreting the poll results also.
By that logic the American revolution was also lawless and despicable.
Remove Jan 6 and replace it with with BLM riots across the US in summer 2020. Do you still feel the same way? Some people are subject to rule of law in the US and some are exempt. It’s hardly surprising that an American might answer that poll in that way given the galling unequal application of justice and the hyperbolic charade Jan 6 was turned into for political advantage.
By your own logic–if Jan 6 was as obviously despicable as you say–then indeed the headline contains the most surprising aspect of the story. (In any case, au contraire, I view the outcome of this poll as positive.)
Must polls mean what they say? I didn’t participate (in either the protest or the poll), but I can see myself answering that I approved of Jan 6, if only to register my disgust with the prevailing media coverage, Jan 6 committee, and hysterical “threat to democracy” rhetoric. It’s likely other respondents feel the same, so be consoled that your fellow Americans might be slightly less despicable–or deplorable–than the poll results suggest to you.
By that logic the American revolution was also lawless and despicable.
Remove Jan 6 and replace it with with BLM riots across the US in summer 2020. Do you still feel the same way? Some people are subject to rule of law in the US and some are exempt. It’s hardly surprising that an American might answer that poll in that way given the galling unequal application of justice and the hyperbolic charade Jan 6 was turned into for political advantage.
Talk about journalistic distortions: Why did Unherd choose to use the inverse of the YouGov poll report? Deliberately focusing on the negative and sensational? Who, us?
That being said, as a U.S. citizen, it is a sad commentary on American public life if any poll found that even 5% of the population supported the despicable events of January 6, 2021. No American should support such lawlessness and idiocy.
So 20% of Americans approve of attacking the institutions of government because their fat slob of a leader lost a presidential election in a landslide.
I guess the upside is that 80% of Americans still have enough sense to see that threatening to hang the vice president because he won’t attempt to install said fat slob into the White House isn’t quite constitutional.
Exactly. We are a democracy, after all. Majority rules and all that. Also, if you click on the link to the actual YouGov poll report, you will see that UnHerd inverted the title for the report, focusing on the negative minority result. This they are entitled to do, but as your comment very legitimately points out, the vast majority of Americans were appalled by the events of January 6, 2021. It is a sad commentary, however, that 20% approved of them. Very sad.
It’s not just the Jan 6th committee’s blatant politicking though Graeme.
The suppressing of the story of Hunter Biden’s laptop by chunks of mainstream media, social media, and even the FBI itself is tantamount to election interference.
In a sense, Trump is an irrelevance in all of this. The fact that Biden wasn’t elected in a fair election without interference is the story.
The people had their President picked for them.
Trump lost in a landslide. Your fantasies about the supposed contents of a laptop belonging to the son of one of the candidates, a story that not even Fox News would touch, are amusing but have zero relevance to the outcome of the race.
It also may have revealed links to Biden family interference with Ukrainian companies, which may go some way to explaining why Russia is attacking Ukraine today.
A concerted effort was made to bury this story in collusion by social media, mainstream media, and political directive. At the same time, we have Trump who is rightfully or wrongfully having every single detail of his life scrutinized by the FBI.
Departments and platforms that should be neutral and objective have been weaponized to attack political dissidents. This should worry you no matter what your own political biases are.
As much as I disagree with the way the January 6 protest was carried out, I do understand the sentiment behind it. If our very institutions are corrupted more and more people will speak out.
Really? Fantasies? Have you not been following the revelations on Twitter (post Elon’s takeover) by Barry Weiss, Schellenberger and other well respected journalists? They PROVE that the Hunter Biden laptop story was true and was potentially very damaging to Jo Biden’s prospects in the 2020 election. It was for this reason it was censored by Twitter (and no doubt by all social media companies) under instructions from the Democratic Party and the FBI no less! Apparently 60 ex FBI agents actually worked at Twitter at the time. It’s a scandal that Democrats call these revelations a ‘nothingburger’ and the MSM is not reporting on it. No doubt this is why you call it a fantasy! The lap top showed that Hunter Biden was peddling his father’s influence in China and in Ukraine in return for millions in contracts.
no he really didn’t. not in the states that mattered; it was about a 40k difference. no landslide sorry. also it looks like you haven’t been paying attention because even the MSM has admitted the laptop was real now. trust me none of us give a good k-rap about this fail son’s porn or drug use but we do care a great deal about his business dealings and the payouts to his daddy and his uncle. it was an act of providence that the bone head hunter was stupid enough to leave evidence out in the open.
Trump lost by millions of votes both times he ran and only the ludicrous electoral college system, which heavily favours republicans, allowed him to be elected by a fluke – but what he termed a landslide. Truth is he was a joke president and will always be remembered as such.
Its very sweet that you are gullible enough to believe that evidence of the Biden’s crooked dealings just happened to fall into the hands of a far right crazy who immediately sent the details to Rudy Giuliani, no doubt delivered by a unicorn to a garden supply centre parking lot somewhere outside of Philadelphia?!?!? A story so ludicrous that even Fox News declined it?
Trump lost by millions of votes both times he ran and only the ludicrous electoral college system, which heavily favours republicans, allowed him to be elected by a fluke – but what he termed a landslide. Truth is he was a joke president and will always be remembered as such.
Its very sweet that you are gullible enough to believe that evidence of the Biden’s crooked dealings just happened to fall into the hands of a far right crazy who immediately sent the details to Rudy Giuliani, no doubt delivered by a unicorn to a garden supply centre parking lot somewhere outside of Philadelphia?!?!? A story so ludicrous that even Fox News declined it?
It also may have revealed links to Biden family interference with Ukrainian companies, which may go some way to explaining why Russia is attacking Ukraine today.
A concerted effort was made to bury this story in collusion by social media, mainstream media, and political directive. At the same time, we have Trump who is rightfully or wrongfully having every single detail of his life scrutinized by the FBI.
Departments and platforms that should be neutral and objective have been weaponized to attack political dissidents. This should worry you no matter what your own political biases are.
As much as I disagree with the way the January 6 protest was carried out, I do understand the sentiment behind it. If our very institutions are corrupted more and more people will speak out.
Really? Fantasies? Have you not been following the revelations on Twitter (post Elon’s takeover) by Barry Weiss, Schellenberger and other well respected journalists? They PROVE that the Hunter Biden laptop story was true and was potentially very damaging to Jo Biden’s prospects in the 2020 election. It was for this reason it was censored by Twitter (and no doubt by all social media companies) under instructions from the Democratic Party and the FBI no less! Apparently 60 ex FBI agents actually worked at Twitter at the time. It’s a scandal that Democrats call these revelations a ‘nothingburger’ and the MSM is not reporting on it. No doubt this is why you call it a fantasy! The lap top showed that Hunter Biden was peddling his father’s influence in China and in Ukraine in return for millions in contracts.
no he really didn’t. not in the states that mattered; it was about a 40k difference. no landslide sorry. also it looks like you haven’t been paying attention because even the MSM has admitted the laptop was real now. trust me none of us give a good k-rap about this fail son’s porn or drug use but we do care a great deal about his business dealings and the payouts to his daddy and his uncle. it was an act of providence that the bone head hunter was stupid enough to leave evidence out in the open.
Trump lost in a landslide. Your fantasies about the supposed contents of a laptop belonging to the son of one of the candidates, a story that not even Fox News would touch, are amusing but have zero relevance to the outcome of the race.
I agree with you but the chances of this happening would have been greatly reduced if the the government had taken a stronger stance against the preceding BLM riots. The damage caused by BLM rioters during a time of enforced lockdowns far exceeded the death and arrest count of January 6, as well as causing billions of dollars in property damage.
I am afraid January 6, while stupid, is a direct result of what happens when laws are not equally applied.
Exactly. We are a democracy, after all. Majority rules and all that. Also, if you click on the link to the actual YouGov poll report, you will see that UnHerd inverted the title for the report, focusing on the negative minority result. This they are entitled to do, but as your comment very legitimately points out, the vast majority of Americans were appalled by the events of January 6, 2021. It is a sad commentary, however, that 20% approved of them. Very sad.
It’s not just the Jan 6th committee’s blatant politicking though Graeme.
The suppressing of the story of Hunter Biden’s laptop by chunks of mainstream media, social media, and even the FBI itself is tantamount to election interference.
In a sense, Trump is an irrelevance in all of this. The fact that Biden wasn’t elected in a fair election without interference is the story.
The people had their President picked for them.
I agree with you but the chances of this happening would have been greatly reduced if the the government had taken a stronger stance against the preceding BLM riots. The damage caused by BLM rioters during a time of enforced lockdowns far exceeded the death and arrest count of January 6, as well as causing billions of dollars in property damage.
I am afraid January 6, while stupid, is a direct result of what happens when laws are not equally applied.
So 20% of Americans approve of attacking the institutions of government because their fat slob of a leader lost a presidential election in a landslide.
I guess the upside is that 80% of Americans still have enough sense to see that threatening to hang the vice president because he won’t attempt to install said fat slob into the White House isn’t quite constitutional.