A wobbly sort of article, this one – laced with a few sneers against Carlson and Orban – but ending on a note of disingenuous neutrality. The sneers must be addressed however. In the first place, because a journalist wishes to interview two men, it does not follow that he approves of each equally or at all. Second, the casual equation of Orban – a parliamentary leader with no record of war or slaughter, with Putin – a dictator in all but name, with expansionist aims, ruthless methods and blood on his hands, is irresponsible and dishonest. One wonders how long it will take young, metro journos to realise: Orban’s immigration policy is normal. It applies across the non-European world and applied in Europe until yesterday. Unimpeachable pillars of the democratic west, Churchill and de Gaulle, approved in principle of such controls. The morbid policy is the one foisted on the wider west thanks to a massive “trahison des clercs” in the educated and administrative classes. It is perhaps summed up in the recent leftist attack on a German war memorial, leaving it with the message that “Germany must die”. In fact, the left is murdering Europe.
I wonder how long it will take UnHerd to lose subscribers when they allow this kind of piffle to be published, lowering the wider tone unacceptably into Twitter/Guardian territory.
UnHerd, as a subscriber I enjoy reading a diverse set of well written articles. I appreciate having my views challenged by well written and cogent essays. That quality is FAR more important than quantity, which can be the only excuse for this immature 14 year old’s politics GCSE essay being published.
I can read Guardian style rubbish for free on the Guardian’s website.
Yes, we have to settle for the fact that, on balance, he makes a good case for Hungary. He feels obligated to quote people we disdain, relating their ad hominem attacks. I suspect he wants his larger community of journalistic colleagues to know his article is just a chronicle of “cultural currents” pertinent to Hungary. He feels compelled to be “thoughtful” but “neutral”. It’s somewhat aggravating to some of us. We have to settle for the fact that an intellectually honest assessment of his factual information favors Hungary.
What on Earth is the problem with a journalist being thoughtful and writing facts. This includes citing views he may (possibly) strongly disagree with but without always shouting ‘I hate those views’ at every turn. In fact ideally we should not be able to discern the political views of the author from an honestly written factual piece.
But in fact the author is complimenting Hungary, as far as he is commenting on that country. But the article is actually ‘about’ American conservatives.
I kind of resent the implication that Unherd should be solely kind of ‘anti-woke’ culture war forum with no dissident voices.
The author made no such equation. I do wish commentators on here could understand the elementary distinction between an author’s own views, and those of others that he is citing. The words ‘to his critics’ should be a pretty clear highlight of the distinction.
Without that distinction we can have no rational discussion about any subject. The failure to do so puts us in the same category as extreme Islamists.
Wow. Just…wow. I don’t believe I’ve EVER seen such a concentrated jollup of sneering leftist condescension floating so directionless in such an utter vacuum of self-awareness as this piece. Awesome.
…the problem is guys in the media like Curt, are so gun shy about talking plainly and directly about the facts of life being conservative, that they have to assume this silly craven world weary ‘sort of’ tone, towards anyone or any thought not mainstream woke.
Wow, you people really must be extremists, seemingly unable to actually read the meaning of words on the page and presumably only satisfied with an endless parroting of favoured obsessive talking points. Quite how a positive mention of Hungary can justify this bile is beyond me. (He could have mentioned the corruption, court packing, elevating of party hacks etc) .
But the article was about the outlook of American conservatives (of which the author is one!) rather than Hungary in itself. Self awareness? How hilarious to mention that.
Katharine Eyre
2 years ago
The bullet holes on the buildings in Budapest are more likely to come from the 1956 uprising than anything to do with the Nazis.
I can’t say I “like” Viktor Orbán much but I am quite fascinated by him and how he has made the journey from anti-Soviet young liberal freedom fighter to a fighter against the prevailing liberal order. At what point did that liberal dream become a nightmare?
Liberalism and its twisted destructive powers, just as we see them now, were talked of by Orwell! As he went from a hard Socalist because of USSR realities, he also saw the death head of modern ‘Liberalism’ in the pretty mask it presents its self with.
Jordan Peterson, talking with the North Korean woman who escaped and ended up in Columbia University where she says it is like North Korea in how much one must say lies endlessly or be kicked out and shunned. She tells of it, and what a waste of money and time it was because the 100% PC gone Mad, coupled with total authoritarianism. How basically evil modern liberalism in education is.
If you know ot The Frankfurt School – that Weimar Republic, Marxist, intellectual group who created Critical Thinking and Post Modernism were out to destroy the West by destroying the Middle Class (Bougies, same as Marx said was necessary) by destroying family and education and society – well they moved to Columbia University in 1980, and thus it was the gateway to USA for this SICK Liberalism. This disease so much worse than covid in the harm it will do, and spreads like RO of 100…..It escaped from the Lab of Columbia University where gain of function expierments had made it utterly pathological and virulent….
I often refer to the “Frankfurt School” in the context of “blockchain” or, more accurately, distributed ledger technology protocols.
Small wonder too that almost none of them actually understand the subject matter in which they are self appointed experts – this would run counter to their object of using “blockchain” as a means of asserting their cancer into the financial system.
They are the most extreme and anarchistic. They are also great fans of (and admired by) the European Commission.
Little wonder then that their passion is for a return to a fascist state: state chosen champions who have signalled their virtue and EU credentials consistently with any and all others reduced to servitude. The state itself should be one of self appointed technocrats beyond the base rabble’s sight or account.
EC is VERY fond of this with the whole European Innovation Council directed toward favouring select incumbents rather than the creation of new competitive challengers. More obviously, the European Commission considers democracy an irritation and national constitutional courts as unconstitutional should they consider themselves distinct to and thus not subservient to the ECJ.
This is the very same school whose adherents run the European Commission Blockchain Observatory and who sustain a sycophantic media circus around them.
Should any of those platforms give an airing of my views – I am a deliberate target for these groups given that I call them out as frauds and bluffers – they are demonetised.
The EU a liberal dream? Orban is right on the money.Eastern Europe is defending European values.
Dave Lowery
2 years ago
I have visited Budapest, near Christmas time in 2018. The Christmas markets were thriving, and I noticed something missing. No big bollards. No steel barriers. No armed guards. Nobody seemingly concerned about a possible Jihadi attack.
There were no burkas to be seen (A lack of burkas is not the right phrase).
Yes, please.
After the Nazis and Soviets surely a bit of cultural enrichment wouldn’t go amiss?
Cathy Carron
2 years ago
It comes down to ‘human nature’ which the Left with all its utopian ideas and visions, rails against & denies to its own detriment. Humans usually want to procreate, live peaceably and not have to worry about safety. Joe Biden’s ‘open border’ policies and Democrat-run cities which are hosting more violence than ever are not only not appealing to most people, but they threaten their happiness & very existence. ‘Defunding the Police’ is hardly the answer. For sure, Democrats have lost the plot. Tucker’s journey to Hungary is rather fascinating; if anything, he’s highlighting a system which could be simply saner, a foil to America’s Progressive moment.
Last edited 2 years ago by Cathy Carron
Ethniciodo Rodenydo
2 years ago
I’d have Orban as UK PM tomorrow
Matt M
2 years ago
I have thought since November that Tucker Carlson will run in 2024. Is this part of the early ramp up?
No, and Tucker has said so himself. Look toward DeSantos, who just yesterday told Biden publicly that he wouldn’t be listening anymore to his inconsistent covid policy, Biden’s drivel. Don’t count Trump out either, Harris is gone, buried by complaints from her own staff; She’s a loser, completely ineffective.
Of any of the potential presidential candidates, Tucker Carlson is by far the most informed, articulate and expressive.
In a presidential debate it would be almost morbidly fascinating to watch Biden being dissected with surgical precision by Tucker.
Last edited 2 years ago by Jenn Usher
William Hickey
2 years ago
They’re trying the Trump-Netanyahu treatment of death by judicial indictment on Orban. “He’s corrupt!” It’s the Free World version of a “color revolution.”
Cathy Carron
2 years ago
What evidence is there that Tucker Carson and others are ‘American malcontents’? And how does this author know that Tucker Carlson will never interview Putin? What a disjointed bit of writing.
A wobbly sort of article, this one – laced with a few sneers against Carlson and Orban – but ending on a note of disingenuous neutrality. The sneers must be addressed however. In the first place, because a journalist wishes to interview two men, it does not follow that he approves of each equally or at all. Second, the casual equation of Orban – a parliamentary leader with no record of war or slaughter, with Putin – a dictator in all but name, with expansionist aims, ruthless methods and blood on his hands, is irresponsible and dishonest. One wonders how long it will take young, metro journos to realise: Orban’s immigration policy is normal. It applies across the non-European world and applied in Europe until yesterday. Unimpeachable pillars of the democratic west, Churchill and de Gaulle, approved in principle of such controls. The morbid policy is the one foisted on the wider west thanks to a massive “trahison des clercs” in the educated and administrative classes. It is perhaps summed up in the recent leftist attack on a German war memorial, leaving it with the message that “Germany must die”. In fact, the left is murdering Europe.
I wonder how long it will take UnHerd to lose subscribers when they allow this kind of piffle to be published, lowering the wider tone unacceptably into Twitter/Guardian territory.
UnHerd, as a subscriber I enjoy reading a diverse set of well written articles. I appreciate having my views challenged by well written and cogent essays. That quality is FAR more important than quantity, which can be the only excuse for this immature 14 year old’s politics GCSE essay being published.
I can read Guardian style rubbish for free on the Guardian’s website.
“reversing the plummeting birth rate, for one “
“and having done so without resorting to theocratic authoritarianism. “
WTF?
The meaning is pretty clear to me. Italicising various paragraphs and swearing, as if you are making some profound point, isn’t clever.
UnHerd doesn’t seem to know what audience it wants.
It wants a plurality. Good.
Yes, we have to settle for the fact that, on balance, he makes a good case for Hungary. He feels obligated to quote people we disdain, relating their ad hominem attacks. I suspect he wants his larger community of journalistic colleagues to know his article is just a chronicle of “cultural currents” pertinent to Hungary. He feels compelled to be “thoughtful” but “neutral”. It’s somewhat aggravating to some of us. We have to settle for the fact that an intellectually honest assessment of his factual information favors Hungary.
What on Earth is the problem with a journalist being thoughtful and writing facts. This includes citing views he may (possibly) strongly disagree with but without always shouting ‘I hate those views’ at every turn. In fact ideally we should not be able to discern the political views of the author from an honestly written factual piece.
But in fact the author is complimenting Hungary, as far as he is commenting on that country. But the article is actually ‘about’ American conservatives.
I kind of resent the implication that Unherd should be solely kind of ‘anti-woke’ culture war forum with no dissident voices.
The author made no such equation. I do wish commentators on here could understand the elementary distinction between an author’s own views, and those of others that he is citing. The words ‘to his critics’ should be a pretty clear highlight of the distinction.
Without that distinction we can have no rational discussion about any subject. The failure to do so puts us in the same category as extreme Islamists.
Precisely
Wow. Just…wow. I don’t believe I’ve EVER seen such a concentrated jollup of sneering leftist condescension floating so directionless in such an utter vacuum of self-awareness as this piece. Awesome.
It is sort of like a Guardian article, but cheerful and light.
…the problem is guys in the media like Curt, are so gun shy about talking plainly and directly about the facts of life being conservative, that they have to assume this silly craven world weary ‘sort of’ tone, towards anyone or any thought not mainstream woke.
Wow, you people really must be extremists, seemingly unable to actually read the meaning of words on the page and presumably only satisfied with an endless parroting of favoured obsessive talking points. Quite how a positive mention of Hungary can justify this bile is beyond me. (He could have mentioned the corruption, court packing, elevating of party hacks etc) .
But the article was about the outlook of American conservatives (of which the author is one!) rather than Hungary in itself. Self awareness? How hilarious to mention that.
The bullet holes on the buildings in Budapest are more likely to come from the 1956 uprising than anything to do with the Nazis.
I can’t say I “like” Viktor Orbán much but I am quite fascinated by him and how he has made the journey from anti-Soviet young liberal freedom fighter to a fighter against the prevailing liberal order. At what point did that liberal dream become a nightmare?
The liberal dream became a nightmare when the definition of liberal changed?
Liberalism and its twisted destructive powers, just as we see them now, were talked of by Orwell! As he went from a hard Socalist because of USSR realities, he also saw the death head of modern ‘Liberalism’ in the pretty mask it presents its self with.
It is a Western ‘Cultural Revolution’.
Jordan Peterson, talking with the North Korean woman who escaped and ended up in Columbia University where she says it is like North Korea in how much one must say lies endlessly or be kicked out and shunned. She tells of it, and what a waste of money and time it was because the 100% PC gone Mad, coupled with total authoritarianism. How basically evil modern liberalism in education is.
Jordan, who Loves University, cries at one point – the video is called ‘End of Universities?’ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dncyXvPR8uU
If you know ot The Frankfurt School – that Weimar Republic, Marxist, intellectual group who created Critical Thinking and Post Modernism were out to destroy the West by destroying the Middle Class (Bougies, same as Marx said was necessary) by destroying family and education and society – well they moved to Columbia University in 1980, and thus it was the gateway to USA for this SICK Liberalism. This disease so much worse than covid in the harm it will do, and spreads like RO of 100…..It escaped from the Lab of Columbia University where gain of function expierments had made it utterly pathological and virulent….
Search Frankfurt School, and also the 11 points….
I often refer to the “Frankfurt School” in the context of “blockchain” or, more accurately, distributed ledger technology protocols.
Small wonder too that almost none of them actually understand the subject matter in which they are self appointed experts – this would run counter to their object of using “blockchain” as a means of asserting their cancer into the financial system.
They are the most extreme and anarchistic. They are also great fans of (and admired by) the European Commission.
Little wonder then that their passion is for a return to a fascist state: state chosen champions who have signalled their virtue and EU credentials consistently with any and all others reduced to servitude. The state itself should be one of self appointed technocrats beyond the base rabble’s sight or account.
EC is VERY fond of this with the whole European Innovation Council directed toward favouring select incumbents rather than the creation of new competitive challengers. More obviously, the European Commission considers democracy an irritation and national constitutional courts as unconstitutional should they consider themselves distinct to and thus not subservient to the ECJ.
This is the very same school whose adherents run the European Commission Blockchain Observatory and who sustain a sycophantic media circus around them.
Should any of those platforms give an airing of my views – I am a deliberate target for these groups given that I call them out as frauds and bluffers – they are demonetised.
.
The EU a liberal dream? Orban is right on the money.Eastern Europe is defending European values.
I have visited Budapest, near Christmas time in 2018. The Christmas markets were thriving, and I noticed something missing. No big bollards. No steel barriers. No armed guards. Nobody seemingly concerned about a possible Jihadi attack.
There were no burkas to be seen (A lack of burkas is not the right phrase).
Yes, please.
After the Nazis and Soviets surely a bit of cultural enrichment wouldn’t go amiss?
It comes down to ‘human nature’ which the Left with all its utopian ideas and visions, rails against & denies to its own detriment. Humans usually want to procreate, live peaceably and not have to worry about safety. Joe Biden’s ‘open border’ policies and Democrat-run cities which are hosting more violence than ever are not only not appealing to most people, but they threaten their happiness & very existence. ‘Defunding the Police’ is hardly the answer. For sure, Democrats have lost the plot. Tucker’s journey to Hungary is rather fascinating; if anything, he’s highlighting a system which could be simply saner, a foil to America’s Progressive moment.
I’d have Orban as UK PM tomorrow
I have thought since November that Tucker Carlson will run in 2024. Is this part of the early ramp up?
No, and Tucker has said so himself. Look toward DeSantos, who just yesterday told Biden publicly that he wouldn’t be listening anymore to his inconsistent covid policy, Biden’s drivel. Don’t count Trump out either, Harris is gone, buried by complaints from her own staff; She’s a loser, completely ineffective.
Harris will probably be president within 4 years.
Of any of the potential presidential candidates, Tucker Carlson is by far the most informed, articulate and expressive.
In a presidential debate it would be almost morbidly fascinating to watch Biden being dissected with surgical precision by Tucker.
They’re trying the Trump-Netanyahu treatment of death by judicial indictment on Orban. “He’s corrupt!” It’s the Free World version of a “color revolution.”
What evidence is there that Tucker Carson and others are ‘American malcontents’? And how does this author know that Tucker Carlson will never interview Putin? What a disjointed bit of writing.