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J Bryant
J Bryant
9 months ago

This is certainly an article that will never see the light of day in the mainstream media. Well done, Unherd.

mari shahi
mari shahi
9 months ago
Reply to  J Bryant

It shouldn’t. We should never support Taliban sympathizers and inaccurate information with big statements like Taliban supporting midwife training programs? Have we forgotten May 2020 Maternity ward attack directly targeting women and female doctors. Hm

mari shahi
mari shahi
9 months ago
Reply to  J Bryant

It shouldn’t. We should never support Taliban sympathizers and inaccurate information with big statements like Taliban supporting midwife training programs? Have we forgotten May 2020 Maternity ward attack directly targeting women and female doctors. Hm

J Bryant
J Bryant
9 months ago

This is certainly an article that will never see the light of day in the mainstream media. Well done, Unherd.

Albireo Double
Albireo Double
9 months ago

Hopefully, Western authoritarian “liberal” elites will now stop trying to insist that “their way must be adopted by all” – and enforced on all, if necessary.
I’m no fan of the Taleban, but I’d much rather they were there doing their thing, than there hating us for unsuccessfully trying to prevent them from doing their thing. We can do without regular reports of yet another of our young men and women being blown to pieces, in a country which has successfully resisted every attempt to forcibly change its culture since the dawn of time.
We’re better off out. And they’re probably better off with us out.

mari shahi
mari shahi
9 months ago
Reply to  Albireo Double

Interesting considering we cowardly left thr country on a silver platter to these awful Taliban. Leaving citizens to pick up our pieces. No reparations at all. Shame

Rasmus Fogh
Rasmus Fogh
9 months ago
Reply to  mari shahi

Your reactions are completely justified, but I’d like to ask you what you think should have been done. We tried to install a friendly government by occupation, suppress the opposition and change the culture of the country for the better by force, with the help of local collaborators. I’d argue it might have been a good thing if we had succeeded, but we failed completely. So did the Russians before us. Continuing the same policies would likely have led to more of the same: eternal war, eternal corruption, and (correct me if I am wrong) no major cultural change outside the big cities. Is that really your long term solution? Is it better than giving up and at least putting a stop to a war we cannot win? Or, if not, what policy changes do you think could have given a better result?

Last edited 9 months ago by Rasmus Fogh
Rasmus Fogh
Rasmus Fogh
9 months ago
Reply to  mari shahi

Your reactions are completely justified, but I’d like to ask you what you think should have been done. We tried to install a friendly government by occupation, suppress the opposition and change the culture of the country for the better by force, with the help of local collaborators. I’d argue it might have been a good thing if we had succeeded, but we failed completely. So did the Russians before us. Continuing the same policies would likely have led to more of the same: eternal war, eternal corruption, and (correct me if I am wrong) no major cultural change outside the big cities. Is that really your long term solution? Is it better than giving up and at least putting a stop to a war we cannot win? Or, if not, what policy changes do you think could have given a better result?

Last edited 9 months ago by Rasmus Fogh
mari shahi
mari shahi
9 months ago
Reply to  Albireo Double

Interesting considering we cowardly left thr country on a silver platter to these awful Taliban. Leaving citizens to pick up our pieces. No reparations at all. Shame

Albireo Double
Albireo Double
9 months ago

Hopefully, Western authoritarian “liberal” elites will now stop trying to insist that “their way must be adopted by all” – and enforced on all, if necessary.
I’m no fan of the Taleban, but I’d much rather they were there doing their thing, than there hating us for unsuccessfully trying to prevent them from doing their thing. We can do without regular reports of yet another of our young men and women being blown to pieces, in a country which has successfully resisted every attempt to forcibly change its culture since the dawn of time.
We’re better off out. And they’re probably better off with us out.

Andrew Buckley
Andrew Buckley
9 months ago

A bigger question for me is how to pragmatically work with a regime that is so different to what we know and understand in the “West”?
I don’t think we have any moral right to dictate how a sovereign nation should function. All we have is the responsibility to manage our own reactions and dealings with that regime.

Arthur G
Arthur G
9 months ago
Reply to  Andrew Buckley

True, but no nation has any obligation to interact with another nation either. What if most of the world just says, “Nah, we don’t need relations or trade with you.”?

Andrew Buckley
Andrew Buckley
9 months ago
Reply to  Arthur G

A valid response.

Andrew Buckley
Andrew Buckley
9 months ago
Reply to  Arthur G

A valid response.

Emmanuel MARTIN
Emmanuel MARTIN
9 months ago
Reply to  Andrew Buckley

There is a little thing called “borders” that helps do with that. Diplomats do diplomacy, may have soem trade agreements (or not) and everything else is closed.

Arthur G
Arthur G
9 months ago
Reply to  Andrew Buckley

True, but no nation has any obligation to interact with another nation either. What if most of the world just says, “Nah, we don’t need relations or trade with you.”?

Emmanuel MARTIN
Emmanuel MARTIN
9 months ago
Reply to  Andrew Buckley

There is a little thing called “borders” that helps do with that. Diplomats do diplomacy, may have soem trade agreements (or not) and everything else is closed.

Andrew Buckley
Andrew Buckley
9 months ago

A bigger question for me is how to pragmatically work with a regime that is so different to what we know and understand in the “West”?
I don’t think we have any moral right to dictate how a sovereign nation should function. All we have is the responsibility to manage our own reactions and dealings with that regime.

Max Price
Max Price
9 months ago

It’s just such dumb politics. The only thing we should be worrying about is Afghanistan again turning into a terrorist training camp.
Recognise the Taliban, negotiate with them in good faith on some way to prevent this from ever happening again.
Then leave the Afghan people the f**k alone. They have been an ultra patriarchal society for centuries.
Change will only come from within Afghanistan.

Max Price
Max Price
9 months ago

It’s just such dumb politics. The only thing we should be worrying about is Afghanistan again turning into a terrorist training camp.
Recognise the Taliban, negotiate with them in good faith on some way to prevent this from ever happening again.
Then leave the Afghan people the f**k alone. They have been an ultra patriarchal society for centuries.
Change will only come from within Afghanistan.

Jim Veenbaas
Jim Veenbaas
9 months ago

Eye-opening essay. I agree. This narrative won’t see the light of day in the regime media. I do wonder though if the reduced opium production has more to do with fentanyl and the near collapse of the heroin market.

Jim Veenbaas
Jim Veenbaas
9 months ago

Eye-opening essay. I agree. This narrative won’t see the light of day in the regime media. I do wonder though if the reduced opium production has more to do with fentanyl and the near collapse of the heroin market.

Tosh Owen
Tosh Owen
9 months ago

I must question that a farmer stopped producing opium, just like that! This is their income, what feeds their families. Given the Taliban, and other such extreme authorities, will resort to torture to control the population, e.g. cutting off hands for theft, then what would they cut off if the farmer didn’t stop producing opium. Please don’t insult us, the Taliban government may well be able to stabilise elements of the economy but this is not with human misery. What are the hidden costs, ones that the Taliban (just like Soviet Russia) hide from the world. Forgive my disbelief.

Peter Kwasi-Modo
Peter Kwasi-Modo
9 months ago
Reply to  Tosh Owen

That was my thought. Traditionally the Taliban have demonstrated that they are aware of the elasticity of demand. They know that if they destroy X% of the crop, i.e. reduce the supply by X%, then the price will go up by more than X%, so the revenue, i.e. price times quantity, increases. The Taliban are not stupid.

Last edited 9 months ago by Peter Kwasi-Modo
Albert McGloan
Albert McGloan
9 months ago
Reply to  Tosh Owen

Won’t somebody please think of the poor opium farmers?

Tosh Owen
Tosh Owen
9 months ago
Reply to  Albert McGloan

Thank you for such a glib response. My point is not about “poor opium farmers” but about tactics used to change their actions. (Read the whole comment.) The farmers were producing something for which they got paid, if they don’t produce this crop what do they earn? Will they easily grow a product to feed their family or even sell? Yes, wouldn’t it be wonderful if they could just farm the land for food crops and this would keep everyone happy (even you?). However, we don’t live in a world that simple. If we did then UK farmers would use their farm land for food products, that the UK population would then eat it. I wonder if the UK government should resort to sawing off limbs to encourage UK farmers to make the UK more self-sugfficient.

D Glover
D Glover
9 months ago
Reply to  Tosh Owen

UK farmers are very efficient at growing food. The problem is that we have the population of France in a country half their size. That’s why we have to import so much food.

Albert McGloan
Albert McGloan
9 months ago
Reply to  Tosh Owen

Is someone limiting your access to the internet? The manner in which the Talibs are enforcing their oh-so-terrible poppy eradication programme has been reported upon. Your fever dream of Talibs “sawing off limbs” is the product of, may Allah forgive me for uttering it, bigotry.

D Glover
D Glover
9 months ago
Reply to  Tosh Owen

UK farmers are very efficient at growing food. The problem is that we have the population of France in a country half their size. That’s why we have to import so much food.

Albert McGloan
Albert McGloan
9 months ago
Reply to  Tosh Owen

Is someone limiting your access to the internet? The manner in which the Talibs are enforcing their oh-so-terrible poppy eradication programme has been reported upon. Your fever dream of Talibs “sawing off limbs” is the product of, may Allah forgive me for uttering it, bigotry.

Tosh Owen
Tosh Owen
9 months ago
Reply to  Albert McGloan

Thank you for such a glib response. My point is not about “poor opium farmers” but about tactics used to change their actions. (Read the whole comment.) The farmers were producing something for which they got paid, if they don’t produce this crop what do they earn? Will they easily grow a product to feed their family or even sell? Yes, wouldn’t it be wonderful if they could just farm the land for food crops and this would keep everyone happy (even you?). However, we don’t live in a world that simple. If we did then UK farmers would use their farm land for food products, that the UK population would then eat it. I wonder if the UK government should resort to sawing off limbs to encourage UK farmers to make the UK more self-sugfficient.

Max Price
Max Price
9 months ago
Reply to  Tosh Owen

There would have been a lot of what you mentioned of course but the fear of the Taliban would have been enough for a lot of farmers to stop.

Jürg Gassmann
Jürg Gassmann
9 months ago
Reply to  Tosh Owen

The bulk of the profit from the production of drugs does not go to the farmers in the first place, but to the middlemen processing it, funnelling it out of the country, and selling it into rich countries. So likely, the marginal difference to planting a food or standard cash crop is not so great, and if the Taliban have managed to stabilise markets and pacify the country, then traditional crop specialisation may well again be profitable. After all, Afghanistan needs the food, which otherwise would have to be imported.
I don’t know, I just see market-based explanations being plausible, without the need to reach for coercive explanations.

Peter Kwasi-Modo
Peter Kwasi-Modo
9 months ago
Reply to  Tosh Owen

That was my thought. Traditionally the Taliban have demonstrated that they are aware of the elasticity of demand. They know that if they destroy X% of the crop, i.e. reduce the supply by X%, then the price will go up by more than X%, so the revenue, i.e. price times quantity, increases. The Taliban are not stupid.

Last edited 9 months ago by Peter Kwasi-Modo
Albert McGloan
Albert McGloan
9 months ago
Reply to  Tosh Owen

Won’t somebody please think of the poor opium farmers?

Max Price
Max Price
9 months ago
Reply to  Tosh Owen

There would have been a lot of what you mentioned of course but the fear of the Taliban would have been enough for a lot of farmers to stop.

Jürg Gassmann
Jürg Gassmann
9 months ago
Reply to  Tosh Owen

The bulk of the profit from the production of drugs does not go to the farmers in the first place, but to the middlemen processing it, funnelling it out of the country, and selling it into rich countries. So likely, the marginal difference to planting a food or standard cash crop is not so great, and if the Taliban have managed to stabilise markets and pacify the country, then traditional crop specialisation may well again be profitable. After all, Afghanistan needs the food, which otherwise would have to be imported.
I don’t know, I just see market-based explanations being plausible, without the need to reach for coercive explanations.

Tosh Owen
Tosh Owen
9 months ago

I must question that a farmer stopped producing opium, just like that! This is their income, what feeds their families. Given the Taliban, and other such extreme authorities, will resort to torture to control the population, e.g. cutting off hands for theft, then what would they cut off if the farmer didn’t stop producing opium. Please don’t insult us, the Taliban government may well be able to stabilise elements of the economy but this is not with human misery. What are the hidden costs, ones that the Taliban (just like Soviet Russia) hide from the world. Forgive my disbelief.

mari shahi
mari shahi
9 months ago

“Taliban are doing much better than expected” Glad they are. How about the Afghan people?

mari shahi
mari shahi
9 months ago

“Taliban are doing much better than expected” Glad they are. How about the Afghan people?

Arkadian X
Arkadian X
9 months ago

That was very interesting. Thank you.

D Walsh
D Walsh
9 months ago
Reply to  Arkadian X

Heroin is so passe

D Walsh
D Walsh
9 months ago
Reply to  Arkadian X

Heroin is so passe

Arkadian X
Arkadian X
9 months ago

That was very interesting. Thank you.

Gerald Arcuri
Gerald Arcuri
9 months ago

So, who ya’ gonna’ believe? The Council on Foreign Relations or the World Bank? By almost any measure, the loss of Afghanistan to the Taliban is a disaster. Human rights abuses alone shout that fact. And, it ain’t over yet. A repressive, extremist religious sect doesn’t seem to be a horse worth betting on in the long run.

Bernard Brothman
Bernard Brothman
9 months ago
Reply to  Gerald Arcuri

Fair point. I would like to see an update a year from now.

mari shahi
mari shahi
9 months ago
Reply to  Gerald Arcuri

Thank you, Gerald. I have a cousin who was k*lled for playing card games w. friends and this is a “bleh” story bc it happens everyday in different ways all over the country. Another relative who was a soldier and was on his way to leaving the country with his kids. This is COMMON. Ppl are scared to leave due to retaliation. It is not safe, it is not fun, it is not free. Will it ever be? Def not in our lifetime. One day some day

D Glover
D Glover
9 months ago
Reply to  mari shahi

Ppl are scared to leave due to retaliation.

Really? Then how do we explain the thousands of Afghans heading for Kent?

D Glover
D Glover
9 months ago
Reply to  mari shahi

Ppl are scared to leave due to retaliation.

Really? Then how do we explain the thousands of Afghans heading for Kent?

Bernard Brothman
Bernard Brothman
9 months ago
Reply to  Gerald Arcuri

Fair point. I would like to see an update a year from now.

mari shahi
mari shahi
9 months ago
Reply to  Gerald Arcuri

Thank you, Gerald. I have a cousin who was k*lled for playing card games w. friends and this is a “bleh” story bc it happens everyday in different ways all over the country. Another relative who was a soldier and was on his way to leaving the country with his kids. This is COMMON. Ppl are scared to leave due to retaliation. It is not safe, it is not fun, it is not free. Will it ever be? Def not in our lifetime. One day some day

Gerald Arcuri
Gerald Arcuri
9 months ago

So, who ya’ gonna’ believe? The Council on Foreign Relations or the World Bank? By almost any measure, the loss of Afghanistan to the Taliban is a disaster. Human rights abuses alone shout that fact. And, it ain’t over yet. A repressive, extremist religious sect doesn’t seem to be a horse worth betting on in the long run.

Chris Carter
Chris Carter
9 months ago

“Fear of violence” has diminished now that the Taliban have stopped being so violent. Result!
“Maybe the Taliban’s social values are hopeless…” Well that’s certainly one word for it…

Chris Carter
Chris Carter
9 months ago

“Fear of violence” has diminished now that the Taliban have stopped being so violent. Result!
“Maybe the Taliban’s social values are hopeless…” Well that’s certainly one word for it…

R Wright
R Wright
9 months ago

I am not sure why antyone would be surprised that the end of a four decade civil war would lead to increased prosperity, except for perhaps delusional activist-journalists in the west.

R Wright
R Wright
9 months ago

I am not sure why antyone would be surprised that the end of a four decade civil war would lead to increased prosperity, except for perhaps delusional activist-journalists in the west.

UnHerd Reader
UnHerd Reader
9 months ago

This is a dangerous and really quite irresponsible article, specifically around women and girls. Statistics and high level statements are often not the reality. The reality on the ground is frankly terrifying. I’m speaking from the perspective of knowing a family living in fear of whether they will eat, the daughter stuck inside with no education, just waiting, waiting, and too fearful to go out in the street. The son on the run from the Taliban to avoid recruitment. You think that is any different from ‘before’. According to your article I get the impression we should all sigh with relief!

UnHerd Reader
UnHerd Reader
9 months ago

This is a dangerous and really quite irresponsible article, specifically around women and girls. Statistics and high level statements are often not the reality. The reality on the ground is frankly terrifying. I’m speaking from the perspective of knowing a family living in fear of whether they will eat, the daughter stuck inside with no education, just waiting, waiting, and too fearful to go out in the street. The son on the run from the Taliban to avoid recruitment. You think that is any different from ‘before’. According to your article I get the impression we should all sigh with relief!

Ray Andrews
Ray Andrews
9 months ago

Afghanistan is ruled by medieval barbarians because Afghanis are medieval barbarians — they have several times thrown off the imposition of a modernity they don’t want. One day they might want it, but for now we should recognize the Taliban as the chosen government of Afghanistan and what *we* think of them doesn’t really matter.

Ray Andrews
Ray Andrews
9 months ago

Afghanistan is ruled by medieval barbarians because Afghanis are medieval barbarians — they have several times thrown off the imposition of a modernity they don’t want. One day they might want it, but for now we should recognize the Taliban as the chosen government of Afghanistan and what *we* think of them doesn’t really matter.

Ri Bradach
Ri Bradach
9 months ago

The writer is the wife of the man that drove the surrender and withdraw policy.

https://x.com/gregchew14/status/1691840538700296589?s=46&t=qUTe4F2uhsAFTxk-LLN4ww

Ri Bradach
Ri Bradach
9 months ago

The writer is the wife of the man that drove the surrender and withdraw policy.

https://x.com/gregchew14/status/1691840538700296589?s=46&t=qUTe4F2uhsAFTxk-LLN4ww

Gerald Arcuri
Gerald Arcuri
9 months ago

See the Radio Free Liberty website for Afghanistan under the Taliban. Then tell me how Afghanistan under the Taliban isn’t a disaster!

Gerald Arcuri
Gerald Arcuri
9 months ago

See the Radio Free Liberty website for Afghanistan under the Taliban. Then tell me how Afghanistan under the Taliban isn’t a disaster!

David Kingsworthy
David Kingsworthy
9 months ago

The Taliban have moxie….
it convinced most farmers not to plant the seeds in the first place

Studio Largo
Studio Largo
8 months ago

‘Cheryl Benard is an academic and an author’. How about we hear from people actually living under Taliban rule and not this ivory tower princess.

Last edited 8 months ago by Studio Largo