Why would it be “comforting” if Italian (and other) voters turn their back on anti-establishment politics? I would find it comforting if Italian and other voters turned “populist,” throwing out professional politicians who have presided over the decline of Italy, the United States, the West, writ large.
I find nothing comforting about this continuing, (inexorable?) decline. The ruling class has been a complete failure–look at Biden. Nothing comforting there.
Matty D
2 years ago
National populism is the definition of an empty vessel. It makes a lot of noise, but there is nothing there. It is all about the ‘other’. It has no idea how to deal with the realities of the modern world, and when it ever gets into government, its parties follow the solution led pursued by the “establishment “ parties. As it is in Italy, so it is in Britain. A government that governs in vacuous slogans that mean little and no policy substance.
You are correct, but even so, populism becomes more prevalent when the mainstream parties stop listening to their constituents.
robert stowells
2 years ago
I have had some thoughts on this and would like to record chronology (to me this sort of questioning is warranted-there has to be some explanation for the madness):
1) Around February 11 2020 I came down with a flu virus after having visited Malta. I had had the flu jab so was surprised but did not make the link that what I was experiencing was COVID (which I now believe it was).
2) I joined Unherd in 2021, about 1 year after having experienced COVID, and recorded my experience of COVID sytmptoms in comments on an article by Tom Chivers (refer to my comments on Chivers’ article which record my account). In the comments to the Chivers article I hinted as to whether Italy had made some sort of deal to be a centre of COVID in return for having their national debt payed which were my thoughts at the time.
3) After writing my comments on Chivers’ article referred to above I read the later recent article by Thomas Fazi and commented on it (refer comments regarding Italy being at forefront of COVID in return to contributions to their national debt). This later article by Fazi related to Italy once more suddenly being at the forefront of COVID developments in relation to COVID passports and I wondered once more as to whether Italy were making some sort of trade off in offering themselves to be the centre of COVID development in return for the repayment of national debt.
4) I was interested in the articles of Fazi and so looked back to find that in early 2020 a few months into COVID (before I had joined Unherd) he had written a rather extreme article regarding “neoliberalism” stating that he believed that nations could simply print money to get themselves out of debt. This was pretty much derided and dismissed in the comments on the article. Also why would an Italian commentator talk so freely of the inconsequence of printing money when it was not possible for Italy to do so as a member of the EU? However, I see the article by Fazi regarding the printing of money as perhaps an attempt to lessen his own conscience that his own government had potentially offered itself up to be a centre of COVID breakout in return for America or China paying off the Italian national debt. Perhaps the government of Italy at the time would even see the trade-off of subjecting the Italian nation to something that was no more than a moderate to severe flu as a “no brainer” and they were toasting their good luck at the time.
5) Most recently Fazi wrote the present article about his optimism that Italy would regain their “populist” movement. Again I see this article as perhaps being an attempt by the writer to perhaps again ease his own conscience in saying that despite having twice been bailed out by foreign nations to erase Italian debt in return for COVID favours, such printing of money as was used to pay their national debt was trivial and had no consequence, and that Italy had in no way sold out and would return with their “populist” movements and tradition.
6) Again while I have singled Italy as having potentially been part of some global trade off in COVID, clearly COVID has been a global phenomenon so I would expect there to have been several other nations, even the UK, as having been involved in some sort of trade off sell out. If I am correct about Italy, Italy is certainly not alone.
Why would it be “comforting” if Italian (and other) voters turn their back on anti-establishment politics? I would find it comforting if Italian and other voters turned “populist,” throwing out professional politicians who have presided over the decline of Italy, the United States, the West, writ large.
I find nothing comforting about this continuing, (inexorable?) decline. The ruling class has been a complete failure–look at Biden. Nothing comforting there.
National populism is the definition of an empty vessel. It makes a lot of noise, but there is nothing there. It is all about the ‘other’. It has no idea how to deal with the realities of the modern world, and when it ever gets into government, its parties follow the solution led pursued by the “establishment “ parties. As it is in Italy, so it is in Britain. A government that governs in vacuous slogans that mean little and no policy substance.
You are correct, but even so, populism becomes more prevalent when the mainstream parties stop listening to their constituents.
I have had some thoughts on this and would like to record chronology (to me this sort of questioning is warranted-there has to be some explanation for the madness):
1) Around February 11 2020 I came down with a flu virus after having visited Malta. I had had the flu jab so was surprised but did not make the link that what I was experiencing was COVID (which I now believe it was).
2) I joined Unherd in 2021, about 1 year after having experienced COVID, and recorded my experience of COVID sytmptoms in comments on an article by Tom Chivers (refer to my comments on Chivers’ article which record my account). In the comments to the Chivers article I hinted as to whether Italy had made some sort of deal to be a centre of COVID in return for having their national debt payed which were my thoughts at the time.
3) After writing my comments on Chivers’ article referred to above I read the later recent article by Thomas Fazi and commented on it (refer comments regarding Italy being at forefront of COVID in return to contributions to their national debt). This later article by Fazi related to Italy once more suddenly being at the forefront of COVID developments in relation to COVID passports and I wondered once more as to whether Italy were making some sort of trade off in offering themselves to be the centre of COVID development in return for the repayment of national debt.
4) I was interested in the articles of Fazi and so looked back to find that in early 2020 a few months into COVID (before I had joined Unherd) he had written a rather extreme article regarding “neoliberalism” stating that he believed that nations could simply print money to get themselves out of debt. This was pretty much derided and dismissed in the comments on the article. Also why would an Italian commentator talk so freely of the inconsequence of printing money when it was not possible for Italy to do so as a member of the EU? However, I see the article by Fazi regarding the printing of money as perhaps an attempt to lessen his own conscience that his own government had potentially offered itself up to be a centre of COVID breakout in return for America or China paying off the Italian national debt. Perhaps the government of Italy at the time would even see the trade-off of subjecting the Italian nation to something that was no more than a moderate to severe flu as a “no brainer” and they were toasting their good luck at the time.
5) Most recently Fazi wrote the present article about his optimism that Italy would regain their “populist” movement. Again I see this article as perhaps being an attempt by the writer to perhaps again ease his own conscience in saying that despite having twice been bailed out by foreign nations to erase Italian debt in return for COVID favours, such printing of money as was used to pay their national debt was trivial and had no consequence, and that Italy had in no way sold out and would return with their “populist” movements and tradition.
6) Again while I have singled Italy as having potentially been part of some global trade off in COVID, clearly COVID has been a global phenomenon so I would expect there to have been several other nations, even the UK, as having been involved in some sort of trade off sell out. If I am correct about Italy, Italy is certainly not alone.