I have never understood what what wrong with Michael Gove, a Scot from Aberdeen, highly intelligent and with a broad knowledge of different cultural and political subjects which makes him an ideal candidate for office. One might object to the fact that he is a Tory but it seems go go beyond that.
Perhaps someone would enlighten me!
Like the Squeaker, Michael Bercow, Gove went from being a true blue Monday Club Tory via a mid-life crisis to a down-win-da-kidz Woke- watermelon leftist in a pale blue tie. He thinks more regulation, more tax and more Government is the answer to everything and wants to abolish independent schools (of the kind he attended) and private property too.
And he looks like a cross between Smeagol and Plug from the Beano.
Like the Squeaker, Michael Bercow, Gove went from being a true blue Monday Club Tory via a mid-life crisis to a down-win-da-kidz Woke- watermelon leftist in a pale blue tie. He thinks more regulation, more tax and more Government is the answer to everything and wants to abolish independent schools (of the kind he attended) and private property too.
And he looks like a cross between Smeagol and Plug from the Beano.
I have never understood what what wrong with Michael Gove, a Scot from Aberdeen, highly intelligent and with a broad knowledge of different cultural and political subjects which makes him an ideal candidate for office. One might object to the fact that he is a Tory but it seems go go beyond that.
Perhaps someone would enlighten me!
Interesting move to Westminster. I’m sure the lease on that real estate wasn’t cheap. I’m guessing Unherd is positioning itself to more directly influence key decision makers, or at least raise its profile, and the profile of its brand of balanced journalism, with influential people.
I was glad to see Sunetra Gupta there. I hope her early stand against lockdowns hasn’t hurt her.
And inviting Katy B***s from The Spectator! Never hurts to befriend the competition. 🙂
“I’m guessing Unherd is positioning itself to more directly influence key decision makers,”
God, I hope not. Intercept, debate, and encourage to come to the ‘coffee house’ to express their positions, amongst a diverse ‘rabble’, maybe, but we hardly need any more ‘shady, quasi official sounding, research or lobby groups’.
Like the coffee houses of Old Edinburgh, hotbeds of the Enlightenment, hopefully this will become much the same.
“I’m guessing Unherd is positioning itself to more directly influence key decision makers,”
God, I hope not. Intercept, debate, and encourage to come to the ‘coffee house’ to express their positions, amongst a diverse ‘rabble’, maybe, but we hardly need any more ‘shady, quasi official sounding, research or lobby groups’.
Like the coffee houses of Old Edinburgh, hotbeds of the Enlightenment, hopefully this will become much the same.
Interesting move to Westminster. I’m sure the lease on that real estate wasn’t cheap. I’m guessing Unherd is positioning itself to more directly influence key decision makers, or at least raise its profile, and the profile of its brand of balanced journalism, with influential people.
I was glad to see Sunetra Gupta there. I hope her early stand against lockdowns hasn’t hurt her.
And inviting Katy B***s from The Spectator! Never hurts to befriend the competition. 🙂
Last edited 1 year ago by J Bryant
Jeremy Bray
1 year ago
Had I by some cosmic accident been invited to this party I would be relieved not to spot any of the authors whose articles I had disparaged in the comments as dross but disappointed not to spot the outstanding Mary Harrington who writes so often and to such a high standard or Kathleen Stock whose excellent articles I have often enjoyed. I would also miss Debbie Hayton whose level-headed analysis of matters trans I have often admired. It would be good, however, to see Andrew Doyle, Constantine Kisin and Inaya Folarin Iman whose work I have also admired – but as for the absurdly tall, handsome and intelligent Freddie Sayers, a standing reminder that nature does not distribute her favours in a fashion that is in any way fair, I should accidentally step on his toes and demand to know why he has failed to respond to any of my complaints about the moderation system, which he would, no doubt, brush aside with inscrutable charm and a shrug.
I suspect Mary lets her writing do the talking as opposed to schmoozing with a load of establishment media NPCs.
Jeremy Bray
1 year ago
Had I by some cosmic accident been invited to this party I would be relieved not to spot any of the authors whose articles I had disparaged in the comments as dross but disappointed not to spot the outstanding Mary Harrington who writes so often and to such a high standard or Kathleen Stock whose excellent articles I have often enjoyed. I would also miss Debbie Hayton whose level-headed analysis of matters trans I have often admired. It would be good, however, to see Andrew Doyle, Constantine Kisin and Inaya Folarin Iman whose work I have also admired – but as for the absurdly tall, handsome and intelligent Freddie Sayers, a standing reminder that nature does not distribute her favours in a fashion that is in any way fair, I should accidentally step on his toes and demand to know why he has failed to respond to any of my complaints about the moderation system, which he would, no doubt, brush aside with inscrutable charm and a shrug.
Emre S
1 year ago
Ah must’ve been nice to join an event with big Suze, looks like it was a nice party.
Emre S
1 year ago
Ah must’ve been nice to join an event with big Suze, looks like it was a nice party.
R Wright
1 year ago
Nice pictures but don’t get too cozy amidst the Wesminster set. You’re meant to be Unherd
R Wright
1 year ago
Nice pictures but don’t get too cozy amidst the Wesminster set. You’re meant to be Unherd
Ben J
1 year ago
How cosy. How London. How posh. I can see where this might be heading.
Yes, I thought so too. It’s also a bit odd for them to be bringing out a physical paper edition. Be careful you don’t get too metropolitan and forget the opinions of us great unwashed outside of London!
Yes, I thought so too. It’s also a bit odd for them to be bringing out a physical paper edition. Be careful you don’t get too metropolitan and forget the opinions of us great unwashed outside of London!
Ben J
1 year ago
How cosy. How London. How posh. I can see where this might be heading.
Derek Smith
1 year ago
What? No Mary???
Derek Smith
1 year ago
What? No Mary???
Matt M
1 year ago
Looks great! Good luck with the new ventures. I will definitely look in on the cafe when I’m next in town.
Matt M
1 year ago
Looks great! Good luck with the new ventures. I will definitely look in on the cafe when I’m next in town.
Tom Lewis
1 year ago
Nice to see the faces (and bodies. Am I allowed to say that ? Better for sizing people up (is that heightism ?) far better/human than those ghastly, corporate, headshots) behind Unheard.
If I were to make comment, and I’m sure I’m wrong in this respect, it looks on the face(body, surely, given your last comment) of it that the Unheard team is a pretty ‘homogeneous’ group !
I wasn’t so much struck by their homogeneity, as by the fact there were so many members of the Establishment attending the party.
When I first discovered Unherd in 2020, I viewed them as a plucky upstart covering the stories the msm so shamefully ignored or suppressed. Unherd did a wonderful job covering the worst of the plague years, but I learned they are funded by a wealthy financier. Over time I’ve come to regard them as representing the part of the Establishment that doesn’t buy into progressivism and still values individual responsibility, free speech, etc. Nothing wrong with that, and I appreciate Unherd’s journalism, but they’re not quite the David v. Goliath I originally imagined.
I know where you are coming from, I also thought them a sort of much more sophisticated ‘Rumble’ (youtube alternative much favored by those outside the agenda) kind of thing. And indeed they have been wonderful in the capacity of being outside the political agenda… but… then one gets a whiff of the possibility of a ‘controlled opposition’ thing going on. Maybe it is not possible to be too outside though; maybe not good to be either.
This rather dazzling spread definitely makes for all manner of conflicting thoughts on what Unherd actually is… but in a good way. You cannot speak to power as an outsider; but then I have always been rather a fallower of David Icke so do know about the lizards and such….definitely lots meets the eye in this scene. Very Cool though. Well done Unherd, what ever it is you are.
” a whiff of the possibility of a ‘controlled opposition’ thing going on. Maybe it is not possible to be too outside though; maybe not good to be either.”
Exactly. You described it better than me.
” a whiff of the possibility of a ‘controlled opposition’ thing going on. Maybe it is not possible to be too outside though; maybe not good to be either.”
Exactly. You described it better than me.
Yes, they’re on a higher rung than those of us who discovered Unherd at its inception would have assumed.
Still, it’s an outstanding publication that provides viewpoints much of the media wont do more than occasionally allow onto the OpEd pages.
I know where you are coming from, I also thought them a sort of much more sophisticated ‘Rumble’ (youtube alternative much favored by those outside the agenda) kind of thing. And indeed they have been wonderful in the capacity of being outside the political agenda… but… then one gets a whiff of the possibility of a ‘controlled opposition’ thing going on. Maybe it is not possible to be too outside though; maybe not good to be either.
This rather dazzling spread definitely makes for all manner of conflicting thoughts on what Unherd actually is… but in a good way. You cannot speak to power as an outsider; but then I have always been rather a fallower of David Icke so do know about the lizards and such….definitely lots meets the eye in this scene. Very Cool though. Well done Unherd, what ever it is you are.
Yes, they’re on a higher rung than those of us who discovered Unherd at its inception would have assumed.
Still, it’s an outstanding publication that provides viewpoints much of the media wont do more than occasionally allow onto the OpEd pages.
I wasn’t so much struck by their homogeneity, as by the fact there were so many members of the Establishment attending the party.
When I first discovered Unherd in 2020, I viewed them as a plucky upstart covering the stories the msm so shamefully ignored or suppressed. Unherd did a wonderful job covering the worst of the plague years, but I learned they are funded by a wealthy financier. Over time I’ve come to regard them as representing the part of the Establishment that doesn’t buy into progressivism and still values individual responsibility, free speech, etc. Nothing wrong with that, and I appreciate Unherd’s journalism, but they’re not quite the David v. Goliath I originally imagined.
Tom Lewis
1 year ago
Nice to see the faces (and bodies. Am I allowed to say that ? Better for sizing people up (is that heightism ?) far better/human than those ghastly, corporate, headshots) behind Unheard.
If I were to make comment, and I’m sure I’m wrong in this respect, it looks on the face(body, surely, given your last comment) of it that the Unheard team is a pretty ‘homogeneous’ group !
Jonas Moze
1 year ago
A striking location. This is some big statement; are we to expect things are afoot?
Jonas Moze
1 year ago
A striking location. This is some big statement; are we to expect things are afoot?
Yes indeed. I plan on making a trip over the pond in the Spring to be at one of the lectures. Looking forward!
Rod McLaughlin
1 year ago
Wish I was in London. Good luck.
Nicky Samengo-Turner
1 year ago
Old Queen Street?… like, really herfennsyffe to senior LGBTQ and like, elitiist non democratic hirearchical non hinklussyffe pandering to stereotypical outdated monarchy?
You seriously need to sober up before posting my friend.
Nicky Samengo-Turner
1 year ago
Old Queen Street?… like, really herfennsyffe to senior LGBTQ and like, elitiist non democratic hirearchical non hinklussyffe pandering to stereotypical outdated monarchy?
Adam McDermont
1 year ago
This could be a good place to try and convert normies to some more robust and less limp causes.
Yeah – like those in ‘orange robes’ who used to catch students in the street with the offer of a free lunch and a side salad of indoctrination. I went with them, but to genuinely debate their beliefs – got chucked out, with peace and love of course, after a couple of hours.
But great idea all the same!
Ethniciodo Rodenydo
1 year ago
Didn’t invite me then
William Reynolds
1 year ago
Please show us the lunch menu.
Iris C
1 year ago
I applaud this raising of your profile.
The media and the government are much of a muchness. There is little difference between the two on major issues because jobs and votes are lost by not following the pack..
But Unherd cannot be voted out of power, thus this independence allows you and your contributors to widen the debate, which is badly needed.
Iris C
1 year ago
I applaud this raising of your profile.
The media and the government are much of a muchness. There is little difference between the two on major issues because jobs and votes are lost by not following the pack..
But Unherd cannot be voted out of power, thus this independence allows you and your contributors to widen the debate, which is badly needed.
Dougie Undersub
1 year ago
What I glean from this is that several of your contributors are using byline photos from the distant past. Miiaaow!
Annette Lawson
1 year ago
It would be good to actually know the game plan. Is it to enlarge the Herd? There are rather too many Alpha Males perhaps for one herd already so what manner of splits might emerge?
I would love the voices to not remain unherd. Having a cafe should make for much talk. What is the desired audience? We should not forget to follow the money.
Good to be able to put some full-length photos to names, and to see Unherd gaining further traction at this new location close to the heart of power.
Good to be able to put some full-length photos to names, and to see Unherd gaining further traction at this new location close to the heart of power.
Endorsed by Michael Gove !!!! Oh dear…..
ahhh.. I thought he was the under butler…
I have never understood what what wrong with Michael Gove, a Scot from Aberdeen, highly intelligent and with a broad knowledge of different cultural and political subjects which makes him an ideal candidate for office. One might object to the fact that he is a Tory but it seems go go beyond that.
Perhaps someone would enlighten me!
Like the Squeaker, Michael Bercow, Gove went from being a true blue Monday Club Tory via a mid-life crisis to a down-win-da-kidz Woke- watermelon leftist in a pale blue tie. He thinks more regulation, more tax and more Government is the answer to everything and wants to abolish independent schools (of the kind he attended) and private property too.
And he looks like a cross between Smeagol and Plug from the Beano.
Like the Squeaker, Michael Bercow, Gove went from being a true blue Monday Club Tory via a mid-life crisis to a down-win-da-kidz Woke- watermelon leftist in a pale blue tie. He thinks more regulation, more tax and more Government is the answer to everything and wants to abolish independent schools (of the kind he attended) and private property too.
And he looks like a cross between Smeagol and Plug from the Beano.
Yes, that’s a bit unfortunate.
How’d HE get in?
ahhh.. I thought he was the under butler…
I have never understood what what wrong with Michael Gove, a Scot from Aberdeen, highly intelligent and with a broad knowledge of different cultural and political subjects which makes him an ideal candidate for office. One might object to the fact that he is a Tory but it seems go go beyond that.
Perhaps someone would enlighten me!
Yes, that’s a bit unfortunate.
How’d HE get in?
Endorsed by Michael Gove !!!! Oh dear…..
Interesting move to Westminster. I’m sure the lease on that real estate wasn’t cheap. I’m guessing Unherd is positioning itself to more directly influence key decision makers, or at least raise its profile, and the profile of its brand of balanced journalism, with influential people.
I was glad to see Sunetra Gupta there. I hope her early stand against lockdowns hasn’t hurt her.
And inviting Katy B***s from The Spectator! Never hurts to befriend the competition. 🙂
“I’m guessing Unherd is positioning itself to more directly influence key decision makers,”
God, I hope not. Intercept, debate, and encourage to come to the ‘coffee house’ to express their positions, amongst a diverse ‘rabble’, maybe, but we hardly need any more ‘shady, quasi official sounding, research or lobby groups’.
Like the coffee houses of Old Edinburgh, hotbeds of the Enlightenment, hopefully this will become much the same.
Loving the moderation of Katy B0llocks’s name.
“I’m guessing Unherd is positioning itself to more directly influence key decision makers,”
God, I hope not. Intercept, debate, and encourage to come to the ‘coffee house’ to express their positions, amongst a diverse ‘rabble’, maybe, but we hardly need any more ‘shady, quasi official sounding, research or lobby groups’.
Like the coffee houses of Old Edinburgh, hotbeds of the Enlightenment, hopefully this will become much the same.
Loving the moderation of Katy B0llocks’s name.
Interesting move to Westminster. I’m sure the lease on that real estate wasn’t cheap. I’m guessing Unherd is positioning itself to more directly influence key decision makers, or at least raise its profile, and the profile of its brand of balanced journalism, with influential people.
I was glad to see Sunetra Gupta there. I hope her early stand against lockdowns hasn’t hurt her.
And inviting Katy B***s from The Spectator! Never hurts to befriend the competition. 🙂
Had I by some cosmic accident been invited to this party I would be relieved not to spot any of the authors whose articles I had disparaged in the comments as dross but disappointed not to spot the outstanding Mary Harrington who writes so often and to such a high standard or Kathleen Stock whose excellent articles I have often enjoyed. I would also miss Debbie Hayton whose level-headed analysis of matters trans I have often admired. It would be good, however, to see Andrew Doyle, Constantine Kisin and Inaya Folarin Iman whose work I have also admired – but as for the absurdly tall, handsome and intelligent Freddie Sayers, a standing reminder that nature does not distribute her favours in a fashion that is in any way fair, I should accidentally step on his toes and demand to know why he has failed to respond to any of my complaints about the moderation system, which he would, no doubt, brush aside with inscrutable charm and a shrug.
I suspect Mary lets her writing do the talking as opposed to schmoozing with a load of establishment media NPCs.
Let us perhaps hope like The Whig’s and Brooks’s Club a new political party may come?
More like Centrist Fabians, I fear. Look at all these upper middle-class types, riding to the Plebs rescue!
More like Centrist Fabians, I fear. Look at all these upper middle-class types, riding to the Plebs rescue!
Let us perhaps hope like The Whig’s and Brooks’s Club a new political party may come?
I suspect Mary lets her writing do the talking as opposed to schmoozing with a load of establishment media NPCs.
Had I by some cosmic accident been invited to this party I would be relieved not to spot any of the authors whose articles I had disparaged in the comments as dross but disappointed not to spot the outstanding Mary Harrington who writes so often and to such a high standard or Kathleen Stock whose excellent articles I have often enjoyed. I would also miss Debbie Hayton whose level-headed analysis of matters trans I have often admired. It would be good, however, to see Andrew Doyle, Constantine Kisin and Inaya Folarin Iman whose work I have also admired – but as for the absurdly tall, handsome and intelligent Freddie Sayers, a standing reminder that nature does not distribute her favours in a fashion that is in any way fair, I should accidentally step on his toes and demand to know why he has failed to respond to any of my complaints about the moderation system, which he would, no doubt, brush aside with inscrutable charm and a shrug.
Ah must’ve been nice to join an event with big Suze, looks like it was a nice party.
Ah must’ve been nice to join an event with big Suze, looks like it was a nice party.
Nice pictures but don’t get too cozy amidst the Wesminster set. You’re meant to be Unherd
Nice pictures but don’t get too cozy amidst the Wesminster set. You’re meant to be Unherd
How cosy. How London. How posh. I can see where this might be heading.
Yes, I thought so too. It’s also a bit odd for them to be bringing out a physical paper edition. Be careful you don’t get too metropolitan and forget the opinions of us great unwashed outside of London!
Yes. Remember what The Independent was when it started, back in the 80s.
Yes. Remember what The Independent was when it started, back in the 80s.
Yes, I thought so too. It’s also a bit odd for them to be bringing out a physical paper edition. Be careful you don’t get too metropolitan and forget the opinions of us great unwashed outside of London!
How cosy. How London. How posh. I can see where this might be heading.
What? No Mary???
What? No Mary???
Looks great! Good luck with the new ventures. I will definitely look in on the cafe when I’m next in town.
Looks great! Good luck with the new ventures. I will definitely look in on the cafe when I’m next in town.
Nice to see the faces (and bodies. Am I allowed to say that ? Better for sizing people up (is that heightism ?) far better/human than those ghastly, corporate, headshots) behind Unheard.
If I were to make comment, and I’m sure I’m wrong in this respect, it looks on the face(body, surely, given your last comment) of it that the Unheard team is a pretty ‘homogeneous’ group !
I wasn’t so much struck by their homogeneity, as by the fact there were so many members of the Establishment attending the party.
When I first discovered Unherd in 2020, I viewed them as a plucky upstart covering the stories the msm so shamefully ignored or suppressed. Unherd did a wonderful job covering the worst of the plague years, but I learned they are funded by a wealthy financier. Over time I’ve come to regard them as representing the part of the Establishment that doesn’t buy into progressivism and still values individual responsibility, free speech, etc. Nothing wrong with that, and I appreciate Unherd’s journalism, but they’re not quite the David v. Goliath I originally imagined.
I know where you are coming from, I also thought them a sort of much more sophisticated ‘Rumble’ (youtube alternative much favored by those outside the agenda) kind of thing. And indeed they have been wonderful in the capacity of being outside the political agenda… but… then one gets a whiff of the possibility of a ‘controlled opposition’ thing going on. Maybe it is not possible to be too outside though; maybe not good to be either.
This rather dazzling spread definitely makes for all manner of conflicting thoughts on what Unherd actually is… but in a good way. You cannot speak to power as an outsider; but then I have always been rather a fallower of David Icke so do know about the lizards and such….definitely lots meets the eye in this scene. Very Cool though. Well done Unherd, what ever it is you are.
” a whiff of the possibility of a ‘controlled opposition’ thing going on. Maybe it is not possible to be too outside though; maybe not good to be either.”
Exactly. You described it better than me.
” a whiff of the possibility of a ‘controlled opposition’ thing going on. Maybe it is not possible to be too outside though; maybe not good to be either.”
Exactly. You described it better than me.
Yes, they’re on a higher rung than those of us who discovered Unherd at its inception would have assumed.
Still, it’s an outstanding publication that provides viewpoints much of the media wont do more than occasionally allow onto the OpEd pages.
I know where you are coming from, I also thought them a sort of much more sophisticated ‘Rumble’ (youtube alternative much favored by those outside the agenda) kind of thing. And indeed they have been wonderful in the capacity of being outside the political agenda… but… then one gets a whiff of the possibility of a ‘controlled opposition’ thing going on. Maybe it is not possible to be too outside though; maybe not good to be either.
This rather dazzling spread definitely makes for all manner of conflicting thoughts on what Unherd actually is… but in a good way. You cannot speak to power as an outsider; but then I have always been rather a fallower of David Icke so do know about the lizards and such….definitely lots meets the eye in this scene. Very Cool though. Well done Unherd, what ever it is you are.
Yes, they’re on a higher rung than those of us who discovered Unherd at its inception would have assumed.
Still, it’s an outstanding publication that provides viewpoints much of the media wont do more than occasionally allow onto the OpEd pages.
I wasn’t so much struck by their homogeneity, as by the fact there were so many members of the Establishment attending the party.
When I first discovered Unherd in 2020, I viewed them as a plucky upstart covering the stories the msm so shamefully ignored or suppressed. Unherd did a wonderful job covering the worst of the plague years, but I learned they are funded by a wealthy financier. Over time I’ve come to regard them as representing the part of the Establishment that doesn’t buy into progressivism and still values individual responsibility, free speech, etc. Nothing wrong with that, and I appreciate Unherd’s journalism, but they’re not quite the David v. Goliath I originally imagined.
Nice to see the faces (and bodies. Am I allowed to say that ? Better for sizing people up (is that heightism ?) far better/human than those ghastly, corporate, headshots) behind Unheard.
If I were to make comment, and I’m sure I’m wrong in this respect, it looks on the face(body, surely, given your last comment) of it that the Unheard team is a pretty ‘homogeneous’ group !
A striking location. This is some big statement; are we to expect things are afoot?
A striking location. This is some big statement; are we to expect things are afoot?
Are you next door to the spectator then?
Are you next door to the spectator then?
Big Suze!
Big Suze!
Wish I was in London. Good luck.
Good to se my MP there. I wouldn’t have taken Bim for an Unherd reader, but he obviously moves in the right circles.
Yes indeed. I plan on making a trip over the pond in the Spring to be at one of the lectures. Looking forward!
Good to se my MP there. I wouldn’t have taken Bim for an Unherd reader, but he obviously moves in the right circles.
Yes indeed. I plan on making a trip over the pond in the Spring to be at one of the lectures. Looking forward!
Wish I was in London. Good luck.
Old Queen Street?… like, really herfennsyffe to senior LGBTQ and like, elitiist non democratic hirearchical non hinklussyffe pandering to stereotypical outdated monarchy?
You seriously need to sober up before posting my friend.
You seriously need to sober up before posting my friend.
Old Queen Street?… like, really herfennsyffe to senior LGBTQ and like, elitiist non democratic hirearchical non hinklussyffe pandering to stereotypical outdated monarchy?
This could be a good place to try and convert normies to some more robust and less limp causes.
Yeah – like those in ‘orange robes’ who used to catch students in the street with the offer of a free lunch and a side salad of indoctrination. I went with them, but to genuinely debate their beliefs – got chucked out, with peace and love of course, after a couple of hours.
But great idea all the same!
Didn’t invite me then
Please show us the lunch menu.
I applaud this raising of your profile.
The media and the government are much of a muchness. There is little difference between the two on major issues because jobs and votes are lost by not following the pack..
But Unherd cannot be voted out of power, thus this independence allows you and your contributors to widen the debate, which is badly needed.
I applaud this raising of your profile.
The media and the government are much of a muchness. There is little difference between the two on major issues because jobs and votes are lost by not following the pack..
But Unherd cannot be voted out of power, thus this independence allows you and your contributors to widen the debate, which is badly needed.
What I glean from this is that several of your contributors are using byline photos from the distant past. Miiaaow!
It would be good to actually know the game plan. Is it to enlarge the Herd? There are rather too many Alpha Males perhaps for one herd already so what manner of splits might emerge?
I would love the voices to not remain unherd. Having a cafe should make for much talk. What is the desired audience? We should not forget to follow the money.
…very acceptable whisky sour…