Quite so. And hence there is a natural ceiling to the support which they might expect to filch from the right. Their natural hunting grounds are the squalid slums of socialism or the stinking marshes of the centre. On the clean Savannahs of the right they are hunted down themselves. Indeed, the only thing which might provoke a conservative to support them is a self-destructive wish to bring about the forthcoming collapse more quickly, if only to end the tortures of anticipation.
Quite so. And hence there is a natural ceiling to the support which they might expect to filch from the right. Their natural hunting grounds are the squalid slums of socialism or the stinking marshes of the centre. On the clean Savannahs of the right they are hunted down themselves. Indeed, the only thing which might provoke a conservative to support them is a self-destructive wish to bring about the forthcoming collapse more quickly, if only to end the tortures of anticipation.
Last edited 1 year ago by Simon Denis
N Satori
1 year ago
The Green Party and the other rag-bag eco-fanatics are threat to us all, not just the Tories.
Disagree. They are totally naive, through and through. The red bit in the middle is a blush of embarrassment, not socialism.
James Kirk
1 year ago
Watermelons. Green on the outside only.
Caradog Wiliams
1 year ago
The BBC, newspapers, celebrities, internet search engines, etc., are fixed to make us think that we need to follow the Green agenda. Schools teach the ideas as fact – no questions allowed. The UK has signed treaties which are legally binding (whatever that means today). We are trapped.
Of course, people don’t realise how lives are going to become very dreary, with no choices. Except in the big conurbations with fabulous transport services, it won’t be easy to go out for the day on the spur of the moment. Electric cars won’t be affordable for ordinary people. We will either have pylons everywhere or there won’t be electricity; there are just no other choices. International travel will become prohibitively expensive so only our government officials and Ant and Dec will be able to fly. Gary Lineker will have left the country for ever.
“But surely our nice government won’t let that happen to us? Surely, they will see sense?” It will be too late!!!
Caradog Wiliams
1 year ago
The BBC, newspapers, celebrities, internet search engines, etc., are fixed to make us think that we need to follow the Green agenda. Schools teach the ideas as fact – no questions allowed. The UK has signed treaties which are legally binding (whatever that means today). We are trapped.
Of course, people don’t realise how lives are going to become very dreary, with no choices. Except in the big conurbations with fabulous transport services, it won’t be easy to go out for the day on the spur of the moment. Electric cars won’t be affordable for ordinary people. We will either have pylons everywhere or there won’t be electricity; there are just no other choices. International travel will become prohibitively expensive so only our government officials and Ant and Dec will be able to fly. Gary Lineker will have left the country for ever.
“But surely our nice government won’t let that happen to us? Surely, they will see sense?” It will be too late!!!
Gareth Evenson
1 year ago
Hmm .. not convinced by the underlying conclusion. Never heard of a protest vote that has limited real political impact then? I actually find this commentary and the seemingly general conclusion that Labour are a shoe-in at the next election quite low on real analysis. No focus on voter turnout, who actually bothered to vote and reason for their choice. Clearly there was always going to be a significant swing away from the Conservatives, any political party in power over the last few years would suffered the same, notwithstanding some of the mess that the Conservatives has brought on themselves. But what is interesting is the large swing not only towards Labour but a significant vote for other smaller parties that voters would almost certainly not vote for in a general election. I would say that Labour have to be looking at these results just as much as the Conservatives, and any reaction to these results (as with anything on twitter) should always be made with care.
Last edited 1 year ago by Gareth Evenson
Gareth Evenson
1 year ago
Hmm .. not convinced by the underlying conclusion. Never heard of a protest vote that has limited real political impact then? I actually find this commentary and the seemingly general conclusion that Labour are a shoe-in at the next election quite low on real analysis. No focus on voter turnout, who actually bothered to vote and reason for their choice. Clearly there was always going to be a significant swing away from the Conservatives, any political party in power over the last few years would suffered the same, notwithstanding some of the mess that the Conservatives has brought on themselves. But what is interesting is the large swing not only towards Labour but a significant vote for other smaller parties that voters would almost certainly not vote for in a general election. I would say that Labour have to be looking at these results just as much as the Conservatives, and any reaction to these results (as with anything on twitter) should always be made with care.
Last edited 1 year ago by Gareth Evenson
Paul Ten
1 year ago
Everybody is in favour of net zero and other green policies. Everybody is also in favour of affordable heating, mobility and travel, and general prosperity. But we’re all cakeists at heart. I wondered if perhaps this winter’s gas emergency would change perspectives on green issues but a dose of realism will have to come along sooner or later.
Everybody is in favour of net zero and other green policies. Everybody is also in favour of affordable heating, mobility and travel, and general prosperity. But we’re all cakeists at heart. I wondered if perhaps this winter’s gas emergency would change perspectives on green issues but a dose of realism will have to come along sooner or later.
Yet their local policies are a complete mystery. They don’t appear to even have any.
They’ve relied on two things – the protest vote, also, people had two votes in this election, and I suspect they picked up lots of second votes.
Yet their local policies are a complete mystery. They don’t appear to even have any.
They’ve relied on two things – the protest vote, also, people had two votes in this election, and I suspect they picked up lots of second votes.
Rob Britton
1 year ago
‘UnHerd polling shows that UK voters are decisively in favour of Net Zero and other green policies — and that includes Red Wall and 2019 Tory voters.”
Really! I don’t believe that for a second. Particularly when voters find out how much it will hit them in the pocket. This article is clearly by a Liberal Democrat.
Rob Britton
1 year ago
‘UnHerd polling shows that UK voters are decisively in favour of Net Zero and other green policies — and that includes Red Wall and 2019 Tory voters.”
Really! I don’t believe that for a second. Particularly when voters find out how much it will hit them in the pocket. This article is clearly by a Liberal Democrat.
Graeme Laws
1 year ago
Could we please have access to the sample, the questionnaire and the analysis? Just to be sure this polling was not designed to produce a particular result. It has been known.
Graeme Laws
1 year ago
Could we please have access to the sample, the questionnaire and the analysis? Just to be sure this polling was not designed to produce a particular result. It has been known.
odd taff
1 year ago
The Green success at the local elections wasn’t mirrored here in Brighton & Hove where they have controlled the city council for four years. They lost 13 of their 20 seats. It seems that the better an electorate know the Greens the less they like them.
odd taff
1 year ago
The Green success at the local elections wasn’t mirrored here in Brighton & Hove where they have controlled the city council for four years. They lost 13 of their 20 seats. It seems that the better an electorate know the Greens the less they like them.
Peter B
1 year ago
I think this is nonsense. As much nonsense as Net Zero itself.
UnHerd polling may show public support for Net Zero. But wait until people really understand the cost/benefit balance of these policies.
At some point, you have to demonstrate leadership and get ahead of the media narrative. You do actually have to win the intellectual argument and do so in public so that people notice and learn. Margaret Thatcher understood this. Peter Franklin seems to believe that such arguments can be won by stealth. He’s wrong.
A further critical point is that it isn’t necessary that a realistic energy and environmental policy enjoy majority support in UnHerd surveys. Let’s suppose the current breakdown is 60:40 in favour of the “Green”/pro Net Zero/etc position. That 60% group is split across all current parties. The 40% group has nowhere to go. Any party that can harvest the 40% can still win under the UK electoral system.
Peter B
1 year ago
I think this is nonsense. As much nonsense as Net Zero itself.
UnHerd polling may show public support for Net Zero. But wait until people really understand the cost/benefit balance of these policies.
At some point, you have to demonstrate leadership and get ahead of the media narrative. You do actually have to win the intellectual argument and do so in public so that people notice and learn. Margaret Thatcher understood this. Peter Franklin seems to believe that such arguments can be won by stealth. He’s wrong.
A further critical point is that it isn’t necessary that a realistic energy and environmental policy enjoy majority support in UnHerd surveys. Let’s suppose the current breakdown is 60:40 in favour of the “Green”/pro Net Zero/etc position. That 60% group is split across all current parties. The 40% group has nowhere to go. Any party that can harvest the 40% can still win under the UK electoral system.
Matt M
1 year ago
If inflation falls below wage growth and the new legislation/Rwanda scheme Stops the Boats, then the Tories will win the GE. If not, they won’t.
Matt M
1 year ago
If inflation falls below wage growth and the new legislation/Rwanda scheme Stops the Boats, then the Tories will win the GE. If not, they won’t.
j watson
1 year ago
Not sure Greens will be quite the same threat in a GE, unless public really buys into some serious tactical voting especially in the South. That said Tories and the Right in general made such a mess one can agree it’s odds are at an all time high.
The Author counsels Tories against adopting an anti-environmentalist stance. It’s just one of the contradictions Tories have struggled to square, so watch for a continuation of the incongruity. It may also be that some implications of the environmental agenda insufficiently understood by the electorate but that doesn’t mean the zeitgeist will rapidly reverse. I mean the Right got a majority to vote for the nonsense shambles that has been Brexit so they ought to know emotion can outweigh logic.
You use a lot of words that don’t say anything. Since you’re driven by such expansive knowledge devoid of emotional baggage…explain how digging up significantly more natural resources that are less abundant than hydrocarbons and letting China, Russia, Venezuela and Saudi Arabia control the fossil fuel market will stimulate economic growth across the west and promote a “cleaner environment.”
The Brexit vote transcended traditional left/right lines. Nice try implicitly blaming it on the “right” (assuming there is “blame” to be assigned). But simply not true.
I will certainly feel indebted to the robust common sense of the voters in places like Sunderland for a long time. Which is something that tells me that people will see through just how destructive and counterproductive Net Zero is. There are far more practical and less harmful policies that will do more for the environment.
You use a lot of words that don’t say anything. Since you’re driven by such expansive knowledge devoid of emotional baggage…explain how digging up significantly more natural resources that are less abundant than hydrocarbons and letting China, Russia, Venezuela and Saudi Arabia control the fossil fuel market will stimulate economic growth across the west and promote a “cleaner environment.”
The Brexit vote transcended traditional left/right lines. Nice try implicitly blaming it on the “right” (assuming there is “blame” to be assigned). But simply not true.
I will certainly feel indebted to the robust common sense of the voters in places like Sunderland for a long time. Which is something that tells me that people will see through just how destructive and counterproductive Net Zero is. There are far more practical and less harmful policies that will do more for the environment.
j watson
1 year ago
Not sure Greens will be quite the same threat in a GE, unless public really buys into some serious tactical voting especially in the South. That said Tories and the Right in general made such a mess one can agree it’s odds are at an all time high.
The Author counsels Tories against adopting an anti-environmentalist stance. It’s just one of the contradictions Tories have struggled to square, so watch for a continuation of the incongruity. It may also be that some implications of the environmental agenda insufficiently understood by the electorate but that doesn’t mean the zeitgeist will rapidly reverse. I mean the Right got a majority to vote for the nonsense shambles that has been Brexit so they ought to know emotion can outweigh logic.
The Green Party and the other rag-bag eco-fanatics are threat to us all, not just the Tories.
Quite so. And hence there is a natural ceiling to the support which they might expect to filch from the right. Their natural hunting grounds are the squalid slums of socialism or the stinking marshes of the centre. On the clean Savannahs of the right they are hunted down themselves. Indeed, the only thing which might provoke a conservative to support them is a self-destructive wish to bring about the forthcoming collapse more quickly, if only to end the tortures of anticipation.
Quite so. And hence there is a natural ceiling to the support which they might expect to filch from the right. Their natural hunting grounds are the squalid slums of socialism or the stinking marshes of the centre. On the clean Savannahs of the right they are hunted down themselves. Indeed, the only thing which might provoke a conservative to support them is a self-destructive wish to bring about the forthcoming collapse more quickly, if only to end the tortures of anticipation.
The Green Party and the other rag-bag eco-fanatics are threat to us all, not just the Tories.
Watermelons. Green on the outside only.
Disagree. They are totally naive, through and through. The red bit in the middle is a blush of embarrassment, not socialism.
Disagree. They are totally naive, through and through. The red bit in the middle is a blush of embarrassment, not socialism.
Watermelons. Green on the outside only.
The BBC, newspapers, celebrities, internet search engines, etc., are fixed to make us think that we need to follow the Green agenda. Schools teach the ideas as fact – no questions allowed. The UK has signed treaties which are legally binding (whatever that means today). We are trapped.
Of course, people don’t realise how lives are going to become very dreary, with no choices. Except in the big conurbations with fabulous transport services, it won’t be easy to go out for the day on the spur of the moment. Electric cars won’t be affordable for ordinary people. We will either have pylons everywhere or there won’t be electricity; there are just no other choices. International travel will become prohibitively expensive so only our government officials and Ant and Dec will be able to fly. Gary Lineker will have left the country for ever.
“But surely our nice government won’t let that happen to us? Surely, they will see sense?” It will be too late!!!
The BBC, newspapers, celebrities, internet search engines, etc., are fixed to make us think that we need to follow the Green agenda. Schools teach the ideas as fact – no questions allowed. The UK has signed treaties which are legally binding (whatever that means today). We are trapped.
Of course, people don’t realise how lives are going to become very dreary, with no choices. Except in the big conurbations with fabulous transport services, it won’t be easy to go out for the day on the spur of the moment. Electric cars won’t be affordable for ordinary people. We will either have pylons everywhere or there won’t be electricity; there are just no other choices. International travel will become prohibitively expensive so only our government officials and Ant and Dec will be able to fly. Gary Lineker will have left the country for ever.
“But surely our nice government won’t let that happen to us? Surely, they will see sense?” It will be too late!!!
Hmm .. not convinced by the underlying conclusion. Never heard of a protest vote that has limited real political impact then? I actually find this commentary and the seemingly general conclusion that Labour are a shoe-in at the next election quite low on real analysis. No focus on voter turnout, who actually bothered to vote and reason for their choice. Clearly there was always going to be a significant swing away from the Conservatives, any political party in power over the last few years would suffered the same, notwithstanding some of the mess that the Conservatives has brought on themselves. But what is interesting is the large swing not only towards Labour but a significant vote for other smaller parties that voters would almost certainly not vote for in a general election. I would say that Labour have to be looking at these results just as much as the Conservatives, and any reaction to these results (as with anything on twitter) should always be made with care.
Hmm .. not convinced by the underlying conclusion. Never heard of a protest vote that has limited real political impact then? I actually find this commentary and the seemingly general conclusion that Labour are a shoe-in at the next election quite low on real analysis. No focus on voter turnout, who actually bothered to vote and reason for their choice. Clearly there was always going to be a significant swing away from the Conservatives, any political party in power over the last few years would suffered the same, notwithstanding some of the mess that the Conservatives has brought on themselves. But what is interesting is the large swing not only towards Labour but a significant vote for other smaller parties that voters would almost certainly not vote for in a general election. I would say that Labour have to be looking at these results just as much as the Conservatives, and any reaction to these results (as with anything on twitter) should always be made with care.
Everybody is in favour of net zero and other green policies. Everybody is also in favour of affordable heating, mobility and travel, and general prosperity. But we’re all cakeists at heart. I wondered if perhaps this winter’s gas emergency would change perspectives on green issues but a dose of realism will have to come along sooner or later.
Everybody – 1
Everybody – 1
Everybody is in favour of net zero and other green policies. Everybody is also in favour of affordable heating, mobility and travel, and general prosperity. But we’re all cakeists at heart. I wondered if perhaps this winter’s gas emergency would change perspectives on green issues but a dose of realism will have to come along sooner or later.
Yet their local policies are a complete mystery. They don’t appear to even have any.
They’ve relied on two things – the protest vote, also, people had two votes in this election, and I suspect they picked up lots of second votes.
I thought Brighton was the first Green council.
I thought Brighton was the first Green council.
Yet their local policies are a complete mystery. They don’t appear to even have any.
They’ve relied on two things – the protest vote, also, people had two votes in this election, and I suspect they picked up lots of second votes.
‘UnHerd polling shows that UK voters are decisively in favour of Net Zero and other green policies — and that includes Red Wall and 2019 Tory voters.”
Really! I don’t believe that for a second. Particularly when voters find out how much it will hit them in the pocket. This article is clearly by a Liberal Democrat.
‘UnHerd polling shows that UK voters are decisively in favour of Net Zero and other green policies — and that includes Red Wall and 2019 Tory voters.”
Really! I don’t believe that for a second. Particularly when voters find out how much it will hit them in the pocket. This article is clearly by a Liberal Democrat.
Could we please have access to the sample, the questionnaire and the analysis? Just to be sure this polling was not designed to produce a particular result. It has been known.
Could we please have access to the sample, the questionnaire and the analysis? Just to be sure this polling was not designed to produce a particular result. It has been known.
The Green success at the local elections wasn’t mirrored here in Brighton & Hove where they have controlled the city council for four years. They lost 13 of their 20 seats. It seems that the better an electorate know the Greens the less they like them.
The Green success at the local elections wasn’t mirrored here in Brighton & Hove where they have controlled the city council for four years. They lost 13 of their 20 seats. It seems that the better an electorate know the Greens the less they like them.
I think this is nonsense. As much nonsense as Net Zero itself.
UnHerd polling may show public support for Net Zero. But wait until people really understand the cost/benefit balance of these policies.
At some point, you have to demonstrate leadership and get ahead of the media narrative. You do actually have to win the intellectual argument and do so in public so that people notice and learn. Margaret Thatcher understood this. Peter Franklin seems to believe that such arguments can be won by stealth. He’s wrong.
A further critical point is that it isn’t necessary that a realistic energy and environmental policy enjoy majority support in UnHerd surveys. Let’s suppose the current breakdown is 60:40 in favour of the “Green”/pro Net Zero/etc position. That 60% group is split across all current parties. The 40% group has nowhere to go. Any party that can harvest the 40% can still win under the UK electoral system.
I think this is nonsense. As much nonsense as Net Zero itself.
UnHerd polling may show public support for Net Zero. But wait until people really understand the cost/benefit balance of these policies.
At some point, you have to demonstrate leadership and get ahead of the media narrative. You do actually have to win the intellectual argument and do so in public so that people notice and learn. Margaret Thatcher understood this. Peter Franklin seems to believe that such arguments can be won by stealth. He’s wrong.
A further critical point is that it isn’t necessary that a realistic energy and environmental policy enjoy majority support in UnHerd surveys. Let’s suppose the current breakdown is 60:40 in favour of the “Green”/pro Net Zero/etc position. That 60% group is split across all current parties. The 40% group has nowhere to go. Any party that can harvest the 40% can still win under the UK electoral system.
If inflation falls below wage growth and the new legislation/Rwanda scheme Stops the Boats, then the Tories will win the GE. If not, they won’t.
If inflation falls below wage growth and the new legislation/Rwanda scheme Stops the Boats, then the Tories will win the GE. If not, they won’t.
Not sure Greens will be quite the same threat in a GE, unless public really buys into some serious tactical voting especially in the South. That said Tories and the Right in general made such a mess one can agree it’s odds are at an all time high.
The Author counsels Tories against adopting an anti-environmentalist stance. It’s just one of the contradictions Tories have struggled to square, so watch for a continuation of the incongruity. It may also be that some implications of the environmental agenda insufficiently understood by the electorate but that doesn’t mean the zeitgeist will rapidly reverse. I mean the Right got a majority to vote for the nonsense shambles that has been Brexit so they ought to know emotion can outweigh logic.
You use a lot of words that don’t say anything. Since you’re driven by such expansive knowledge devoid of emotional baggage…explain how digging up significantly more natural resources that are less abundant than hydrocarbons and letting China, Russia, Venezuela and Saudi Arabia control the fossil fuel market will stimulate economic growth across the west and promote a “cleaner environment.”
The Brexit vote transcended traditional left/right lines. Nice try implicitly blaming it on the “right” (assuming there is “blame” to be assigned). But simply not true.
I will certainly feel indebted to the robust common sense of the voters in places like Sunderland for a long time. Which is something that tells me that people will see through just how destructive and counterproductive Net Zero is. There are far more practical and less harmful policies that will do more for the environment.
You use a lot of words that don’t say anything. Since you’re driven by such expansive knowledge devoid of emotional baggage…explain how digging up significantly more natural resources that are less abundant than hydrocarbons and letting China, Russia, Venezuela and Saudi Arabia control the fossil fuel market will stimulate economic growth across the west and promote a “cleaner environment.”
The Brexit vote transcended traditional left/right lines. Nice try implicitly blaming it on the “right” (assuming there is “blame” to be assigned). But simply not true.
I will certainly feel indebted to the robust common sense of the voters in places like Sunderland for a long time. Which is something that tells me that people will see through just how destructive and counterproductive Net Zero is. There are far more practical and less harmful policies that will do more for the environment.
Not sure Greens will be quite the same threat in a GE, unless public really buys into some serious tactical voting especially in the South. That said Tories and the Right in general made such a mess one can agree it’s odds are at an all time high.
The Author counsels Tories against adopting an anti-environmentalist stance. It’s just one of the contradictions Tories have struggled to square, so watch for a continuation of the incongruity. It may also be that some implications of the environmental agenda insufficiently understood by the electorate but that doesn’t mean the zeitgeist will rapidly reverse. I mean the Right got a majority to vote for the nonsense shambles that has been Brexit so they ought to know emotion can outweigh logic.