There are many critiques which come to mind, concerning the subjective comments and this bigoted article by Leonard.
First off, the term “Black Hebrew Israelites” is a misnomer. You will not refer to Jewish people as “White European Jews” will you?
You also are insulting them and hiding behind your fancy laptop. You call their garb tacky and speech incoherent. Have you done research on them? They will run circles around most biblical scholars, most evangelicals, and most historians.
You are definitely brain washed, and your desire to perpetuate misinformation is astonishing.
There are many critiques which come to mind, concerning the subjective comments and this bigoted article by Leonard.
First off, the term “Black Hebrew Israelites” is a misnomer. You will not refer to Jewish people as “White European Jews” will you?
You also are insulting them and hiding behind your fancy laptop. You call their garb tacky and speech incoherent. Have you done research on them? They will run circles around most biblical scholars, most evangelicals, and most historians.
You are definitely brain washed, and your desire to perpetuate misinformation is astonishing.
Last edited 1 year ago by Darriell Dickerson
Paula Adams
1 year ago
Bottom line: All people living now came from Noah’s line. Noah descended from Adam. We are all one people. And this tribal fighting is all from Satan. Jesus came to save all people. He is the King of Kings.
Have you seen that movie “Life of Pi”? Not sure if you’re one, but I find it curious that when those who oppose the idea of a God or religion do it on the grounds that holy books aren’t accurate scientific descriptions of the universe. It feels like they’d happily be faithful believers had prophets been thrown a calculus or physics book on their head from the sky. Leaving alone that it’s logically impossible to prove or disprove the existence of God (let alone any theory of physics, or even consistency of maths itself for that matter), this lack of understanding that religion is a matter of faith, alongside an insistence of scientific rigour from ancient texts has always amused me.
Have you seen that movie “Life of Pi”? Not sure if you’re one, but I find it curious that when those who oppose the idea of a God or religion do it on the grounds that holy books aren’t accurate scientific descriptions of the universe. It feels like they’d happily be faithful believers had prophets been thrown a calculus or physics book on their head from the sky. Leaving alone that it’s logically impossible to prove or disprove the existence of God (let alone any theory of physics, or even consistency of maths itself for that matter), this lack of understanding that religion is a matter of faith, alongside an insistence of scientific rigour from ancient texts has always amused me.
I have to assume this post was meant ironically. If not my only comment is “oh dear!”
Paula Adams
1 year ago
Bottom line: All people living now came from Noah’s line. Noah descended from Adam. We are all one people. And this tribal fighting is all from Satan. Jesus came to save all people. He is the King of Kings.
Prashant Kotak
1 year ago
This is all reminiscent of the mythology that built around Ethiopian independence and Haile Selassie, around how they were the true Zionists, all the way to Marley singing about the ‘Zion Train’ 50 years ago. Crapology, it seems, has a long tail.
Prashant Kotak
1 year ago
This is all reminiscent of the mythology that built around Ethiopian independence and Haile Selassie, around how they were the true Zionists, all the way to Marley singing about the ‘Zion Train’ 50 years ago. Crapology, it seems, has a long tail.
Shalom Isreal
1 year ago
What you guys and especially the author of this article has totally and I mean totally failed to realize is that it’s so many everyday hard working law abiding non hateful everyday black people are starting to call themselves Hebrew Israelites. All black Hebrew Israelites don’t join a group of militants and these groups as myself a Black Hebrew Israelite I don’t condone at all especially IUIC which is the group that marched on Kyrie behalf. Now as a middle class law abiding black person who is a Isrealite let me tear into this article.First of all why does it has to be conspiracy and mysticism to say we are the original Jews who were dispersed from Israel in 70 AD. We have facts to prove the lineage of those black Jews. Secondly any educated black Isrealite know the Jews in Israel today are of the Ashkenazi and the Khazar kingdom who migrated into Germany who took on the religion on Judaism. These same people are the ones who came to present day Isreal I believe in 1945 after their Holocaust. If it was your land prior why didn’t you take it back prior?? Why because your description doesn’t fit Deuteronomy 28 and a people being in bondage for400 yrs in a strange land which is America what that is speaking of is black people in America today. You white Jews are so afraid that your gig is up that you are willing to label any black person that question you these days as anti semite .
Shalom Isreal
1 year ago
What you guys and especially the author of this article has totally and I mean totally failed to realize is that it’s so many everyday hard working law abiding non hateful everyday black people are starting to call themselves Hebrew Israelites. All black Hebrew Israelites don’t join a group of militants and these groups as myself a Black Hebrew Israelite I don’t condone at all especially IUIC which is the group that marched on Kyrie behalf. Now as a middle class law abiding black person who is a Isrealite let me tear into this article.First of all why does it has to be conspiracy and mysticism to say we are the original Jews who were dispersed from Israel in 70 AD. We have facts to prove the lineage of those black Jews. Secondly any educated black Isrealite know the Jews in Israel today are of the Ashkenazi and the Khazar kingdom who migrated into Germany who took on the religion on Judaism. These same people are the ones who came to present day Isreal I believe in 1945 after their Holocaust. If it was your land prior why didn’t you take it back prior?? Why because your description doesn’t fit Deuteronomy 28 and a people being in bondage for400 yrs in a strange land which is America what that is speaking of is black people in America today. You white Jews are so afraid that your gig is up that you are willing to label any black person that question you these days as anti semite .
Graeme Kemp
1 year ago
Black Hebrew Israelism looks like a new version of British Israel theory – the equally mad belief that the white, Anglo-Saxon people of northern Europe are the ‘lost’ 10 tribes of Israel. There’s nothing (entirely) new under the sun….
Black Hebrew Israelism looks like a new version of British Israel theory – the equally mad belief that the white, Anglo-Saxon people of northern Europe are the ‘lost’ 10 tribes of Israel. There’s nothing (entirely) new under the sun….
Jacqueline Burns
1 year ago
I think you ignore the fact that African countries & their people (even those who do not live in & may not have even visitited Africa) have, to a large extent, taken on the Muslim faith, amongst whom the appropriation of Jewish history & culture for themselves is rife.
Judaism is the earliest, and the most fundamental source, of the three religions of Abraham; Islam, Christianity and Judaism. Your reference to “appropriation” is misleading.
You seem to have misunderstood to the opposite of what Jacqueline meant. Therefore an entirely appropriate reference to ‘appropriation’ (unless you think Islam and Christianity’s ‘Jewish roots’ entitle them – religions or people – to claim ‘Jewish history & culture for themselves’ is appropriate – which is surely a fairly stupid suggestion?)
You seem to have misunderstood to the opposite of what Jacqueline meant. Therefore an entirely appropriate reference to ‘appropriation’ (unless you think Islam and Christianity’s ‘Jewish roots’ entitle them – religions or people – to claim ‘Jewish history & culture for themselves’ is appropriate – which is surely a fairly stupid suggestion?)
Judaism is the earliest, and the most fundamental source, of the three religions of Abraham; Islam, Christianity and Judaism. Your reference to “appropriation” is misleading.
Jacqueline Burns
1 year ago
I think you ignore the fact that African countries & their people (even those who do not live in & may not have even visitited Africa) have, to a large extent, taken on the Muslim faith, amongst whom the appropriation of Jewish history & culture for themselves is rife.
Andrew Boughton
1 year ago
Thanks Ralph for a great piece. Much under-reported because many are in fear of these people. Far more dominant in urban America than most people realise. Most of the negative commenters here have had no direct experience, and no idea. Every culture has its fascists.
Andrew Boughton
1 year ago
Thanks Ralph for a great piece. Much under-reported because many are in fear of these people. Far more dominant in urban America than most people realise. Most of the negative commenters here have had no direct experience, and no idea. Every culture has its fascists.
Shalom Isreal
1 year ago
Shalom everyone
Shalom Isreal
1 year ago
Shalom everyone
George Marshall
1 year ago
Is it possible/plausible to theorise about the existence of economic and political trade offs between the interests of some Jewish and Black demographic cohorts in America?
As an obvious example: in terms of average income there is a not insignificant discrepancy.
Now, reducing that inequity to racial factors apropos of nothing wouldn’t be rational, and of course it makes no sense to judge only those two particular minority groups against each other in isolation.
On the other hand, it’s also not impossible that such inequity could in part be sustained by unconscious in-group preferences, or systemic factors that discretely favour certain cultures, in ways which wouldn’t be basically fair to every observer. Not certain, but possible.
I’m not saying these systemic biases absolutely exist, or alleging any kind of conspiracy in the traditional sense. I think allegations of systemic bias are, as a rule, fundamentally impossible to prove empirically. It’s a type of argument familiar to the worst excesses of postmodern progressivism, and there’s no shortage of epistemological problems with that kind of guiding philosophy.
However, it’s notable that to comment on economic trade offs between different demographics is an extremely touchy subject, for reasons that aren’t always strictly related to economic fairness. It is hard to keep the topic on money, where symbolic cultural identifications are so tightly interwoven with economic issues.
So the question that rhetoric such as that coming from the Black Hebrew Iraelites raises to me is: why prefer inflammatory symbolic prejudicial language over sustained economic critique?
I think there might be some features of our economic and political system that prevent lucid articulation of the nature of economic trade offs between ethnic groups – especially minority groups. It’s a conflict generating topic, and the system doesn’t want to inflame further racial strife. It’s bad for business.
If that were true, you might end up with inexpressible festering economic resentments, that only ever come out in the form of basically racist accusations.
You mention Black envy over Jewish “Chosenness”. The sense of the word “Chosen” here could be interpreted in two senses: divinely selected, or systemically advantaged.
Any explanations of the aforementioned wealth inequity don’t actually need to be racial or predominantly cultural in ultimate origin. They could be class based. The perception that they might be, however, is dangerous to ignore on the part of a group that has historically been violently targeted in not dissimilar societal circumstances.
I wish you would have said that in not such a wordy manner. After reading it I don’t know if I agree with you or not. Speak English next time .
George Marshall
1 year ago
Is it possible/plausible to theorise about the existence of economic and political trade offs between the interests of some Jewish and Black demographic cohorts in America?
As an obvious example: in terms of average income there is a not insignificant discrepancy.
Now, reducing that inequity to racial factors apropos of nothing wouldn’t be rational, and of course it makes no sense to judge only those two particular minority groups against each other in isolation.
On the other hand, it’s also not impossible that such inequity could in part be sustained by unconscious in-group preferences, or systemic factors that discretely favour certain cultures, in ways which wouldn’t be basically fair to every observer. Not certain, but possible.
I’m not saying these systemic biases absolutely exist, or alleging any kind of conspiracy in the traditional sense. I think allegations of systemic bias are, as a rule, fundamentally impossible to prove empirically. It’s a type of argument familiar to the worst excesses of postmodern progressivism, and there’s no shortage of epistemological problems with that kind of guiding philosophy.
However, it’s notable that to comment on economic trade offs between different demographics is an extremely touchy subject, for reasons that aren’t always strictly related to economic fairness. It is hard to keep the topic on money, where symbolic cultural identifications are so tightly interwoven with economic issues.
So the question that rhetoric such as that coming from the Black Hebrew Iraelites raises to me is: why prefer inflammatory symbolic prejudicial language over sustained economic critique?
I think there might be some features of our economic and political system that prevent lucid articulation of the nature of economic trade offs between ethnic groups – especially minority groups. It’s a conflict generating topic, and the system doesn’t want to inflame further racial strife. It’s bad for business.
If that were true, you might end up with inexpressible festering economic resentments, that only ever come out in the form of basically racist accusations.
You mention Black envy over Jewish “Chosenness”. The sense of the word “Chosen” here could be interpreted in two senses: divinely selected, or systemically advantaged.
Any explanations of the aforementioned wealth inequity don’t actually need to be racial or predominantly cultural in ultimate origin. They could be class based. The perception that they might be, however, is dangerous to ignore on the part of a group that has historically been violently targeted in not dissimilar societal circumstances.
David Kingsworthy
1 year ago
This piece is informative and accurate in many ways but still manages to repeat an accusation from the woke media….
“the recent anti-Semitism of Kyrie Irving”
I don’t believe he is guilty of this. Perhaps in the confusion of data this wasn’t properly confirmed?
David Kingsworthy
1 year ago
This piece is informative and accurate in many ways but still manages to repeat an accusation from the woke media….
“the recent anti-Semitism of Kyrie Irving”
I don’t believe he is guilty of this. Perhaps in the confusion of data this wasn’t properly confirmed?
arnold conway
1 year ago
Personally, black people have a right to believe what they want. I’m not sure how dangerous these black folks are in reality. If they are racist, they would be no different than the white churches or the Jews. Lest not forget that the Jews and the Christians were involved in the slave trade. Of course African tribes were involved also, but they had no choice. If they did not find slaves for the European s they would have been enslaved themselves. So being a racist religious group is not new to this country. Infact, all the churches in this countries are pretty much segregated. The Mormons are pretty much all white. You cannot single out this group because of their beliefs. All religions believe crazy shit. All religions look at the other religions as false. What’s the difference? If these black people choose to believe that they are Jewish, then bless their hearts. It don’t affect me one way or the other. I would be more worried about those racist white religious groups than theses black folks. I have not seen them trying to harm people. The worst they do is want you to change the definition of every thing you say. My sister has been on that shit for a couple if years now. She likes to study the origins of words. Big deal.
arnold conway
1 year ago
Personally, black people have a right to believe what they want. I’m not sure how dangerous these black folks are in reality. If they are racist, they would be no different than the white churches or the Jews. Lest not forget that the Jews and the Christians were involved in the slave trade. Of course African tribes were involved also, but they had no choice. If they did not find slaves for the European s they would have been enslaved themselves. So being a racist religious group is not new to this country. Infact, all the churches in this countries are pretty much segregated. The Mormons are pretty much all white. You cannot single out this group because of their beliefs. All religions believe crazy shit. All religions look at the other religions as false. What’s the difference? If these black people choose to believe that they are Jewish, then bless their hearts. It don’t affect me one way or the other. I would be more worried about those racist white religious groups than theses black folks. I have not seen them trying to harm people. The worst they do is want you to change the definition of every thing you say. My sister has been on that shit for a couple if years now. She likes to study the origins of words. Big deal.
Nicky Samengo-Turner
1 year ago
Having just now had to pay for this medium, this is precisely the sort of laughable tripe that will have me cancel this subscription.. having been lulled into Unheard being free- I am sick of all this black/ muslim/ racist/ LGBGBT / eco obsession moron sheep lemming bullshit.
Stick with it – some articles are good and some are a waste of space. Best not to spend too much time reading the ones on topics you are not interested in.
At least Unherd is providing a platform for views that are otherwise not heard 🙂 Its your choice which views you want to read.
I often find articles descending in ‘the left says this and the right says that’ in a way that’s uninteresting – and I’ve learned to move on to the next article … and sometimes its a few days between the good ones – but its worth the wait.
Me too. But I comment as I choose. I am, as an aged person, continually astonished by how angry people get on this platform. There really is not much new under the sun its the amplification levels that have changed.
Me too. But I comment as I choose. I am, as an aged person, continually astonished by how angry people get on this platform. There really is not much new under the sun its the amplification levels that have changed.
Nick – you’ve surely been here long enough to note that much (most?) of the exchange of views/ideas/information comes from us (the floor) rather from the lecturn.
Stick with it – some articles are good and some are a waste of space. Best not to spend too much time reading the ones on topics you are not interested in.
At least Unherd is providing a platform for views that are otherwise not heard 🙂 Its your choice which views you want to read.
I often find articles descending in ‘the left says this and the right says that’ in a way that’s uninteresting – and I’ve learned to move on to the next article … and sometimes its a few days between the good ones – but its worth the wait.
Nick – you’ve surely been here long enough to note that much (most?) of the exchange of views/ideas/information comes from us (the floor) rather from the lecturn.
Who care ? Who are you? Your not important so who gives a shit what you think cry baby.
Nicky Samengo-Turner
1 year ago
Having just now had to pay for this medium, this is precisely the sort of laughable tripe that will have me cancel this subscription.. having been lulled into Unheard being free- I am sick of all this black/ muslim/ racist/ LGBGBT / eco obsession moron sheep lemming bullshit.
steve nola
1 year ago
What a poorly written article. But also we must keep in mind that both sides of this coins involves people arguing over who is the “chosen” people of an invisible, magical, mystery man living in the sky.
What a poorly written article. But also we must keep in mind that both sides of this coins involves people arguing over who is the “chosen” people of an invisible, magical, mystery man living in the sky.
D Walsh
1 year ago
Its sad to see conflict between Jews and American Blacks, the two peoples have such a long history, in most cases their ancestors arrived in the new World on the same boats
Its sad to see conflict between Jews and American Blacks, the two peoples have such a long history, in most cases their ancestors arrived in the new World on the same boats
Emre S
1 year ago
But chasing ‘chosenness’ in this way will always be elusive
Given the founding of America was itself a puritan effort that lies at the root of American exceptionalism (and arguably one of the reasons for their history of racism), it’s not very surprising others are picking up on that.
All are chosen. All are created to be of equal value, all are needed to complee the image of God in creation. What a wonderfully rich tapestry.
Emre S
1 year ago
But chasing ‘chosenness’ in this way will always be elusive
Given the founding of America was itself a puritan effort that lies at the root of American exceptionalism (and arguably one of the reasons for their history of racism), it’s not very surprising others are picking up on that.
There are many critiques which come to mind, concerning the subjective comments and this bigoted article by Leonard.
First off, the term “Black Hebrew Israelites” is a misnomer. You will not refer to Jewish people as “White European Jews” will you?
You also are insulting them and hiding behind your fancy laptop. You call their garb tacky and speech incoherent. Have you done research on them? They will run circles around most biblical scholars, most evangelicals, and most historians.
You are definitely brain washed, and your desire to perpetuate misinformation is astonishing.
He did seem biased
He did seem biased
There are many critiques which come to mind, concerning the subjective comments and this bigoted article by Leonard.
First off, the term “Black Hebrew Israelites” is a misnomer. You will not refer to Jewish people as “White European Jews” will you?
You also are insulting them and hiding behind your fancy laptop. You call their garb tacky and speech incoherent. Have you done research on them? They will run circles around most biblical scholars, most evangelicals, and most historians.
You are definitely brain washed, and your desire to perpetuate misinformation is astonishing.
Bottom line: All people living now came from Noah’s line. Noah descended from Adam. We are all one people. And this tribal fighting is all from Satan. Jesus came to save all people. He is the King of Kings.
I have to assume this post was meant ironically. If not my only comment is “oh dear!”
Have you seen that movie “Life of Pi”? Not sure if you’re one, but I find it curious that when those who oppose the idea of a God or religion do it on the grounds that holy books aren’t accurate scientific descriptions of the universe. It feels like they’d happily be faithful believers had prophets been thrown a calculus or physics book on their head from the sky. Leaving alone that it’s logically impossible to prove or disprove the existence of God (let alone any theory of physics, or even consistency of maths itself for that matter), this lack of understanding that religion is a matter of faith, alongside an insistence of scientific rigour from ancient texts has always amused me.
If Paula is a denizen of the US then its quite likely that a lot of “Oh dears” are required.
Have you seen that movie “Life of Pi”? Not sure if you’re one, but I find it curious that when those who oppose the idea of a God or religion do it on the grounds that holy books aren’t accurate scientific descriptions of the universe. It feels like they’d happily be faithful believers had prophets been thrown a calculus or physics book on their head from the sky. Leaving alone that it’s logically impossible to prove or disprove the existence of God (let alone any theory of physics, or even consistency of maths itself for that matter), this lack of understanding that religion is a matter of faith, alongside an insistence of scientific rigour from ancient texts has always amused me.
If Paula is a denizen of the US then its quite likely that a lot of “Oh dears” are required.
I have to assume this post was meant ironically. If not my only comment is “oh dear!”
Bottom line: All people living now came from Noah’s line. Noah descended from Adam. We are all one people. And this tribal fighting is all from Satan. Jesus came to save all people. He is the King of Kings.
This is all reminiscent of the mythology that built around Ethiopian independence and Haile Selassie, around how they were the true Zionists, all the way to Marley singing about the ‘Zion Train’ 50 years ago. Crapology, it seems, has a long tail.
This is all reminiscent of the mythology that built around Ethiopian independence and Haile Selassie, around how they were the true Zionists, all the way to Marley singing about the ‘Zion Train’ 50 years ago. Crapology, it seems, has a long tail.
What you guys and especially the author of this article has totally and I mean totally failed to realize is that it’s so many everyday hard working law abiding non hateful everyday black people are starting to call themselves Hebrew Israelites. All black Hebrew Israelites don’t join a group of militants and these groups as myself a Black Hebrew Israelite I don’t condone at all especially IUIC which is the group that marched on Kyrie behalf. Now as a middle class law abiding black person who is a Isrealite let me tear into this article.First of all why does it has to be conspiracy and mysticism to say we are the original Jews who were dispersed from Israel in 70 AD. We have facts to prove the lineage of those black Jews. Secondly any educated black Isrealite know the Jews in Israel today are of the Ashkenazi and the Khazar kingdom who migrated into Germany who took on the religion on Judaism. These same people are the ones who came to present day Isreal I believe in 1945 after their Holocaust. If it was your land prior why didn’t you take it back prior?? Why because your description doesn’t fit Deuteronomy 28 and a people being in bondage for400 yrs in a strange land which is America what that is speaking of is black people in America today. You white Jews are so afraid that your gig is up that you are willing to label any black person that question you these days as anti semite .
What you guys and especially the author of this article has totally and I mean totally failed to realize is that it’s so many everyday hard working law abiding non hateful everyday black people are starting to call themselves Hebrew Israelites. All black Hebrew Israelites don’t join a group of militants and these groups as myself a Black Hebrew Israelite I don’t condone at all especially IUIC which is the group that marched on Kyrie behalf. Now as a middle class law abiding black person who is a Isrealite let me tear into this article.First of all why does it has to be conspiracy and mysticism to say we are the original Jews who were dispersed from Israel in 70 AD. We have facts to prove the lineage of those black Jews. Secondly any educated black Isrealite know the Jews in Israel today are of the Ashkenazi and the Khazar kingdom who migrated into Germany who took on the religion on Judaism. These same people are the ones who came to present day Isreal I believe in 1945 after their Holocaust. If it was your land prior why didn’t you take it back prior?? Why because your description doesn’t fit Deuteronomy 28 and a people being in bondage for400 yrs in a strange land which is America what that is speaking of is black people in America today. You white Jews are so afraid that your gig is up that you are willing to label any black person that question you these days as anti semite .
Black Hebrew Israelism looks like a new version of British Israel theory – the equally mad belief that the white, Anglo-Saxon people of northern Europe are the ‘lost’ 10 tribes of Israel. There’s nothing (entirely) new under the sun….
O
O
Black Hebrew Israelism looks like a new version of British Israel theory – the equally mad belief that the white, Anglo-Saxon people of northern Europe are the ‘lost’ 10 tribes of Israel. There’s nothing (entirely) new under the sun….
I think you ignore the fact that African countries & their people (even those who do not live in & may not have even visitited Africa) have, to a large extent, taken on the Muslim faith, amongst whom the appropriation of Jewish history & culture for themselves is rife.
Judaism is the earliest, and the most fundamental source, of the three religions of Abraham; Islam, Christianity and Judaism. Your reference to “appropriation” is misleading.
You seem to have misunderstood to the opposite of what Jacqueline meant. Therefore an entirely appropriate reference to ‘appropriation’ (unless you think Islam and Christianity’s ‘Jewish roots’ entitle them – religions or people – to claim ‘Jewish history & culture for themselves’ is appropriate – which is surely a fairly stupid suggestion?)
I’m guessing, at this point, you’re not a Muslim?
I’m guessing, at this point, you’re not a Muslim?
You seem to have misunderstood to the opposite of what Jacqueline meant. Therefore an entirely appropriate reference to ‘appropriation’ (unless you think Islam and Christianity’s ‘Jewish roots’ entitle them – religions or people – to claim ‘Jewish history & culture for themselves’ is appropriate – which is surely a fairly stupid suggestion?)
Judaism is the earliest, and the most fundamental source, of the three religions of Abraham; Islam, Christianity and Judaism. Your reference to “appropriation” is misleading.
I think you ignore the fact that African countries & their people (even those who do not live in & may not have even visitited Africa) have, to a large extent, taken on the Muslim faith, amongst whom the appropriation of Jewish history & culture for themselves is rife.
Thanks Ralph for a great piece. Much under-reported because many are in fear of these people. Far more dominant in urban America than most people realise. Most of the negative commenters here have had no direct experience, and no idea. Every culture has its fascists.
Thanks Ralph for a great piece. Much under-reported because many are in fear of these people. Far more dominant in urban America than most people realise. Most of the negative commenters here have had no direct experience, and no idea. Every culture has its fascists.
Shalom everyone
Shalom everyone
Is it possible/plausible to theorise about the existence of economic and political trade offs between the interests of some Jewish and Black demographic cohorts in America?
As an obvious example: in terms of average income there is a not insignificant discrepancy.
Now, reducing that inequity to racial factors apropos of nothing wouldn’t be rational, and of course it makes no sense to judge only those two particular minority groups against each other in isolation.
On the other hand, it’s also not impossible that such inequity could in part be sustained by unconscious in-group preferences, or systemic factors that discretely favour certain cultures, in ways which wouldn’t be basically fair to every observer. Not certain, but possible.
I’m not saying these systemic biases absolutely exist, or alleging any kind of conspiracy in the traditional sense. I think allegations of systemic bias are, as a rule, fundamentally impossible to prove empirically. It’s a type of argument familiar to the worst excesses of postmodern progressivism, and there’s no shortage of epistemological problems with that kind of guiding philosophy.
However, it’s notable that to comment on economic trade offs between different demographics is an extremely touchy subject, for reasons that aren’t always strictly related to economic fairness. It is hard to keep the topic on money, where symbolic cultural identifications are so tightly interwoven with economic issues.
So the question that rhetoric such as that coming from the Black Hebrew Iraelites raises to me is: why prefer inflammatory symbolic prejudicial language over sustained economic critique?
I think there might be some features of our economic and political system that prevent lucid articulation of the nature of economic trade offs between ethnic groups – especially minority groups. It’s a conflict generating topic, and the system doesn’t want to inflame further racial strife. It’s bad for business.
If that were true, you might end up with inexpressible festering economic resentments, that only ever come out in the form of basically racist accusations.
You mention Black envy over Jewish “Chosenness”. The sense of the word “Chosen” here could be interpreted in two senses: divinely selected, or systemically advantaged.
Any explanations of the aforementioned wealth inequity don’t actually need to be racial or predominantly cultural in ultimate origin. They could be class based. The perception that they might be, however, is dangerous to ignore on the part of a group that has historically been violently targeted in not dissimilar societal circumstances.
I wish you would have said that in not such a wordy manner. After reading it I don’t know if I agree with you or not. Speak English next time .
I wish you would have said that in not such a wordy manner. After reading it I don’t know if I agree with you or not. Speak English next time .
Is it possible/plausible to theorise about the existence of economic and political trade offs between the interests of some Jewish and Black demographic cohorts in America?
As an obvious example: in terms of average income there is a not insignificant discrepancy.
Now, reducing that inequity to racial factors apropos of nothing wouldn’t be rational, and of course it makes no sense to judge only those two particular minority groups against each other in isolation.
On the other hand, it’s also not impossible that such inequity could in part be sustained by unconscious in-group preferences, or systemic factors that discretely favour certain cultures, in ways which wouldn’t be basically fair to every observer. Not certain, but possible.
I’m not saying these systemic biases absolutely exist, or alleging any kind of conspiracy in the traditional sense. I think allegations of systemic bias are, as a rule, fundamentally impossible to prove empirically. It’s a type of argument familiar to the worst excesses of postmodern progressivism, and there’s no shortage of epistemological problems with that kind of guiding philosophy.
However, it’s notable that to comment on economic trade offs between different demographics is an extremely touchy subject, for reasons that aren’t always strictly related to economic fairness. It is hard to keep the topic on money, where symbolic cultural identifications are so tightly interwoven with economic issues.
So the question that rhetoric such as that coming from the Black Hebrew Iraelites raises to me is: why prefer inflammatory symbolic prejudicial language over sustained economic critique?
I think there might be some features of our economic and political system that prevent lucid articulation of the nature of economic trade offs between ethnic groups – especially minority groups. It’s a conflict generating topic, and the system doesn’t want to inflame further racial strife. It’s bad for business.
If that were true, you might end up with inexpressible festering economic resentments, that only ever come out in the form of basically racist accusations.
You mention Black envy over Jewish “Chosenness”. The sense of the word “Chosen” here could be interpreted in two senses: divinely selected, or systemically advantaged.
Any explanations of the aforementioned wealth inequity don’t actually need to be racial or predominantly cultural in ultimate origin. They could be class based. The perception that they might be, however, is dangerous to ignore on the part of a group that has historically been violently targeted in not dissimilar societal circumstances.
This piece is informative and accurate in many ways but still manages to repeat an accusation from the woke media….
“the recent anti-Semitism of Kyrie Irving”
I don’t believe he is guilty of this. Perhaps in the confusion of data this wasn’t properly confirmed?
This piece is informative and accurate in many ways but still manages to repeat an accusation from the woke media….
“the recent anti-Semitism of Kyrie Irving”
I don’t believe he is guilty of this. Perhaps in the confusion of data this wasn’t properly confirmed?
Personally, black people have a right to believe what they want. I’m not sure how dangerous these black folks are in reality. If they are racist, they would be no different than the white churches or the Jews. Lest not forget that the Jews and the Christians were involved in the slave trade. Of course African tribes were involved also, but they had no choice. If they did not find slaves for the European s they would have been enslaved themselves. So being a racist religious group is not new to this country. Infact, all the churches in this countries are pretty much segregated. The Mormons are pretty much all white. You cannot single out this group because of their beliefs. All religions believe crazy shit. All religions look at the other religions as false. What’s the difference? If these black people choose to believe that they are Jewish, then bless their hearts. It don’t affect me one way or the other. I would be more worried about those racist white religious groups than theses black folks. I have not seen them trying to harm people. The worst they do is want you to change the definition of every thing you say. My sister has been on that shit for a couple if years now. She likes to study the origins of words. Big deal.
Personally, black people have a right to believe what they want. I’m not sure how dangerous these black folks are in reality. If they are racist, they would be no different than the white churches or the Jews. Lest not forget that the Jews and the Christians were involved in the slave trade. Of course African tribes were involved also, but they had no choice. If they did not find slaves for the European s they would have been enslaved themselves. So being a racist religious group is not new to this country. Infact, all the churches in this countries are pretty much segregated. The Mormons are pretty much all white. You cannot single out this group because of their beliefs. All religions believe crazy shit. All religions look at the other religions as false. What’s the difference? If these black people choose to believe that they are Jewish, then bless their hearts. It don’t affect me one way or the other. I would be more worried about those racist white religious groups than theses black folks. I have not seen them trying to harm people. The worst they do is want you to change the definition of every thing you say. My sister has been on that shit for a couple if years now. She likes to study the origins of words. Big deal.
Having just now had to pay for this medium, this is precisely the sort of laughable tripe that will have me cancel this subscription.. having been lulled into Unheard being free- I am sick of all this black/ muslim/ racist/ LGBGBT / eco obsession moron sheep lemming bullshit.
Stick with it – some articles are good and some are a waste of space. Best not to spend too much time reading the ones on topics you are not interested in.
At least Unherd is providing a platform for views that are otherwise not heard 🙂 Its your choice which views you want to read.
I often find articles descending in ‘the left says this and the right says that’ in a way that’s uninteresting – and I’ve learned to move on to the next article … and sometimes its a few days between the good ones – but its worth the wait.
Me too. But I comment as I choose. I am, as an aged person, continually astonished by how angry people get on this platform. There really is not much new under the sun its the amplification levels that have changed.
Me too. But I comment as I choose. I am, as an aged person, continually astonished by how angry people get on this platform. There really is not much new under the sun its the amplification levels that have changed.
Nick – you’ve surely been here long enough to note that much (most?) of the exchange of views/ideas/information comes from us (the floor) rather from the lecturn.
Who care ? Who are you? Your not important so who gives a shit what you think cry baby.
Stick with it – some articles are good and some are a waste of space. Best not to spend too much time reading the ones on topics you are not interested in.
At least Unherd is providing a platform for views that are otherwise not heard 🙂 Its your choice which views you want to read.
I often find articles descending in ‘the left says this and the right says that’ in a way that’s uninteresting – and I’ve learned to move on to the next article … and sometimes its a few days between the good ones – but its worth the wait.
Nick – you’ve surely been here long enough to note that much (most?) of the exchange of views/ideas/information comes from us (the floor) rather from the lecturn.
Who care ? Who are you? Your not important so who gives a shit what you think cry baby.
Having just now had to pay for this medium, this is precisely the sort of laughable tripe that will have me cancel this subscription.. having been lulled into Unheard being free- I am sick of all this black/ muslim/ racist/ LGBGBT / eco obsession moron sheep lemming bullshit.
What a poorly written article. But also we must keep in mind that both sides of this coins involves people arguing over who is the “chosen” people of an invisible, magical, mystery man living in the sky.
Yup
Yup
What a poorly written article. But also we must keep in mind that both sides of this coins involves people arguing over who is the “chosen” people of an invisible, magical, mystery man living in the sky.
Its sad to see conflict between Jews and American Blacks, the two peoples have such a long history, in most cases their ancestors arrived in the new World on the same boats
Wtf!
Wtf!
Its sad to see conflict between Jews and American Blacks, the two peoples have such a long history, in most cases their ancestors arrived in the new World on the same boats
Given the founding of America was itself a puritan effort that lies at the root of American exceptionalism (and arguably one of the reasons for their history of racism), it’s not very surprising others are picking up on that.
All are chosen. All are created to be of equal value, all are needed to complee the image of God in creation. What a wonderfully rich tapestry.
All are chosen. All are created to be of equal value, all are needed to complee the image of God in creation. What a wonderfully rich tapestry.
Given the founding of America was itself a puritan effort that lies at the root of American exceptionalism (and arguably one of the reasons for their history of racism), it’s not very surprising others are picking up on that.