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April 18, 2023 - 1:00pm
Yesterday, YesCymru, the campaign for Welsh independence, tweeted a compilation of English commentators and outlets getting angry at the decision of Brecon Beacons National Park to drop the English version of its name. The move was ascribed to “mental illness” by a GB News presenter and “wokery” by the leader of the Heritage Party. According to Nigel Farage, “We are losing our minds.”
Of course, none of these criticisms explained why only using the established Welsh name for a mountain range in Wales is so wrong. Some Twitter critics seemed to think the name was being changed, apparently unaware that Welsh is a living language and that most English place names in Wales have older Welsh equivalents.
English conservatives, who claim to defend British culture, are often very dismissive of those parts of British heritage which are not English. They assume their version of Britain is the only one that exists, and the rich linguistic heritage of these islands is lost on them. The result of this is, inadvertently, to invigorate nationalists, as every symbolic insult fans the flames of independence. Economic arguments are difficult to win, but messages that boil down to “Some of the English hate our culture” hit home because they seem to be true.
Protecting the Welsh language should be a valued cause for British conservatives. It is an integral part of British heritage, and a reminder of a national antiquity that predates the Anglo-Saxons. Indeed, before the 19th century Welsh was often known in English as the British tongue. Nor is its history one rooted solely in Wales. In the early post-Roman years, versions of what became Welsh were spoken across Britain. As late as the 19th century, there were vibrant Welsh-speaking communities in London, Manchester, Bristol and other parts of England. Liverpool had so many Welsh speakers it was known as the capital of North Wales.
In 1929, the judge T. P. Ellis wrote a paper bemoaning what was happening to names in Wales. He complained that Welsh councils were using English versions of place names “for monetary gain”, and that Welsh people were translating their house names into English. This, he thought, was desecration. Welsh place names, he argued, had a beauty to them and fed the imagination. They were also logical because they described the features and geography of places. The loss of a traditional name, consequently, was a symptom of “the decay of the old Welsh spirit”.
Since then, concern around place names has grown. Now the threat is not seen as coming from within Wales but, instead, from outsiders buying properties and changing names they do not understand and cannot pronounce. The backlash against this is partly about wider questions of housing inequality, but it is also about trying to protect Welsh heritage and the things that give it meaning.
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SubscribeI think some of the fury might have been because they said the reason for the change was due to beacons signifying fire and thus being inconsistent with their commitment to zero carbon. This also seemed really stupid given that ‘bannau’ is the Welsh word for ‘beacons’.
If they had just made it a cultural matter it might have provoked less adverse comment.
That was my take as well. Otherwise, they could have just used the English name when speaking English and used the Welsh name when speaking Welsh and no-one would have cared.
Yes we should and you are correct. It would be good if we could maintain Welsh without shooting ourselves in the foot. At the moment, all children living in Wales have to learn some Welsh in schools. The problem is that there is almost no Welsh on the internet, nor on TV, nor in books (unless those books are about Wales). So, you can only use it to chat to each other. There is a rule now that you have to speak some Welsh if you want to work for the government but I’m not sure how that is applied.
This is where the politicians really let us down. They have no ideas about anything.
There’s a tv channel dedicated to Welsh, plenty of cultural events held in Welsh throughout the year, several Welsh presses publishing all kinds of books in Welsh. This is not a dead language.
There’s a tv channel dedicated to Welsh, plenty of cultural events held in Welsh throughout the year, several Welsh presses publishing all kinds of books in Welsh. This is not a dead language.
Yes we should and you are correct. It would be good if we could maintain Welsh without shooting ourselves in the foot. At the moment, all children living in Wales have to learn some Welsh in schools. The problem is that there is almost no Welsh on the internet, nor on TV, nor in books (unless those books are about Wales). So, you can only use it to chat to each other. There is a rule now that you have to speak some Welsh if you want to work for the government but I’m not sure how that is applied.
This is where the politicians really let us down. They have no ideas about anything.
I thought that “bannau” meant “peaks”.
The Geiriadur Prifysgol Cymru offers the following English translations for “ban”, the singular of “bannau”: top, tip, point, summit, crest, peak, beacon, height, pinnacle, turret, hill, mountain, bare hill.
The Geiriadur Prifysgol Cymru offers the following English translations for “ban”, the singular of “bannau”: top, tip, point, summit, crest, peak, beacon, height, pinnacle, turret, hill, mountain, bare hill.
Bannau is Welsh for ‘peaks’. I’m a Welsh speaker and have always used Bannau Brycheiniog when speaking in Welsh, and will continue to say Brecon Beacons when speaking English. They’ve made a big deal out of the Net Zero aspect because the plan is to cover the Beacons in bat bashing, bird mincing eco-crucifixes. I hope that there is a bigger outrage when this happens.
But you know that there will not be a big outrage when wind power takes over. Actually, I agree with you but for different reasons. I assume you know that these windmills have to be connected to the grid with pylons and you would have heard about the recent meeting ( with your friend Adam) about a line of planned pylons starting at Llandovery and then along the whole of the Tywi valley?
This is a disaster. Adam walked away without saying anything. But to take the line underground would also destroy the environment for another reason. I will stop because I am being boring.
We must fight this, though.
We must fight this, though.
But you know that there will not be a big outrage when wind power takes over. Actually, I agree with you but for different reasons. I assume you know that these windmills have to be connected to the grid with pylons and you would have heard about the recent meeting ( with your friend Adam) about a line of planned pylons starting at Llandovery and then along the whole of the Tywi valley?
This is a disaster. Adam walked away without saying anything. But to take the line underground would also destroy the environment for another reason. I will stop because I am being boring.
Bannau translates as peaks in English, not beacons. I can only suppose that they tried to put a bit of an environmental spin on the decision knowing that less understanding people would be against the change. Some of the comments here seem to show that.
That was my take as well. Otherwise, they could have just used the English name when speaking English and used the Welsh name when speaking Welsh and no-one would have cared.
I thought that “bannau” meant “peaks”.
Bannau is Welsh for ‘peaks’. I’m a Welsh speaker and have always used Bannau Brycheiniog when speaking in Welsh, and will continue to say Brecon Beacons when speaking English. They’ve made a big deal out of the Net Zero aspect because the plan is to cover the Beacons in bat bashing, bird mincing eco-crucifixes. I hope that there is a bigger outrage when this happens.
Bannau translates as peaks in English, not beacons. I can only suppose that they tried to put a bit of an environmental spin on the decision knowing that less understanding people would be against the change. Some of the comments here seem to show that.
I think some of the fury might have been because they said the reason for the change was due to beacons signifying fire and thus being inconsistent with their commitment to zero carbon. This also seemed really stupid given that ‘bannau’ is the Welsh word for ‘beacons’.
If they had just made it a cultural matter it might have provoked less adverse comment.
I have no problem with Welshifying place names in Wales, but to give the reason as being that beacons are bad for the environment is an insult to Welsh and English speakers alike.
I have no problem with Welshifying place names in Wales, but to give the reason as being that beacons are bad for the environment is an insult to Welsh and English speakers alike.
I agree. I am of Welsh heritage (grew up mostly elsewhere) and was fascinated hearing Mamgu speak to my great uncle in the mother tongue. Welsh had fallen out of fashion when my father was in school, so he was never taught. I briefly attended school in Wales and assemblies were in Welsh. It would be awful to see Welsh in the state that Gaelic is in Scotland.
One of the single worst aspects of globalism is this erosion of local languages, dialects, dress and customs in favor of this bland Anglo-American middle class beige culture.
We should be proud of local differences and help them survive.
I have some shame to confess I have little Welsh. I am married to an Italian (and speak a little Italian) and when I visit I am always impressed at how regional the nation is. There is truly regional food and the local dialects remain. I recall my wife unable to understand some women in conversation in Bergamo.
We’ve almost completely lost this in the UK and the Welsh language is something that remains. Of course, it has little practical value but it is a bonny thing.
‘Little practical value’ for endangered languages? I’ve struggled half my life studying the native tongue of my grandparents, Irish/Gaeilge. Do we all capitulate to the hegemony of, say, Spanish, English, and Mandarin wiping out indigenous cultures? It’s a canard to those raised in indigenous households or learning these threatened languages to reduce it to but a ‘bonny thing’. We claim to value heritage and tradition, in cultural as well as ecological realms.
I’m living in Ecuador and taking classes in Kichwa: I’ll never be fluent in either that or Gaeilge, but learners make an effort to become speakers and support those who do. To sustain lives in a dignified fashion and culture that is not Anglo-American or only Spanish or Chinese etc. Place-names tell us much about our surroundings, and that’s erased when anglicisation occurs warps this understanding, just as my names were garbled from their original Irish into bureaucratically imposed ‘equivalents’.
‘Little practical value’ for endangered languages? I’ve struggled half my life studying the native tongue of my grandparents, Irish/Gaeilge. Do we all capitulate to the hegemony of, say, Spanish, English, and Mandarin wiping out indigenous cultures? It’s a canard to those raised in indigenous households or learning these threatened languages to reduce it to but a ‘bonny thing’. We claim to value heritage and tradition, in cultural as well as ecological realms.
I’m living in Ecuador and taking classes in Kichwa: I’ll never be fluent in either that or Gaeilge, but learners make an effort to become speakers and support those who do. To sustain lives in a dignified fashion and culture that is not Anglo-American or only Spanish or Chinese etc. Place-names tell us much about our surroundings, and that’s erased when anglicisation occurs warps this understanding, just as my names were garbled from their original Irish into bureaucratically imposed ‘equivalents’.
I have some shame to confess I have little Welsh. I am married to an Italian (and speak a little Italian) and when I visit I am always impressed at how regional the nation is. There is truly regional food and the local dialects remain. I recall my wife unable to understand some women in conversation in Bergamo.
We’ve almost completely lost this in the UK and the Welsh language is something that remains. Of course, it has little practical value but it is a bonny thing.
I agree. I am of Welsh heritage (grew up mostly elsewhere) and was fascinated hearing Mamgu speak to my great uncle in the mother tongue. Welsh had fallen out of fashion when my father was in school, so he was never taught. I briefly attended school in Wales and assemblies were in Welsh. It would be awful to see Welsh in the state that Gaelic is in Scotland.
One of the single worst aspects of globalism is this erosion of local languages, dialects, dress and customs in favor of this bland Anglo-American middle class beige culture.
We should be proud of local differences and help them survive.
The outrage can be explained partly because of the reason given, that anything to do with fire is not a good look for a national park. The idea that the park had been named by a bunch of pyromaniacs, and it was high time it was corrected, is too silly for words. The park authorities deserved to be ridiculed.
Mostly though, it looks as though English-sounding names are being deliberately expunged as a nationalist gesture. Other examples include Mumbai/Bombay, Kolkata/Calcutta and Derry/Londonderry. It’s childish and solves nothing, but it makes the people arguing thus sound really patriotic.
The outrage can be explained partly because of the reason given, that anything to do with fire is not a good look for a national park. The idea that the park had been named by a bunch of pyromaniacs, and it was high time it was corrected, is too silly for words. The park authorities deserved to be ridiculed.
Mostly though, it looks as though English-sounding names are being deliberately expunged as a nationalist gesture. Other examples include Mumbai/Bombay, Kolkata/Calcutta and Derry/Londonderry. It’s childish and solves nothing, but it makes the people arguing thus sound really patriotic.
This seems to be a case where certain ‘conservatives’ can and should be called out in their contradictions. It is hypocritical to decry the encroachment of government and private industry forces into one’s own culture on one hand and blindly trample over other cultures on the other hand. That said, there are winners and losers in history and they aren’t always related to direct conflict. Many dead languages died out not because somebody conquered somebody else, but rather because over time a smaller group adopted the languages and customs of a larger group for whatever reason and their own language and customs ceased to be observed. Ultimately it is up to the members of a culture to promote that culture and pass it on to their children.
This seems to be a case where certain ‘conservatives’ can and should be called out in their contradictions. It is hypocritical to decry the encroachment of government and private industry forces into one’s own culture on one hand and blindly trample over other cultures on the other hand. That said, there are winners and losers in history and they aren’t always related to direct conflict. Many dead languages died out not because somebody conquered somebody else, but rather because over time a smaller group adopted the languages and customs of a larger group for whatever reason and their own language and customs ceased to be observed. Ultimately it is up to the members of a culture to promote that culture and pass it on to their children.
This article makes some good points. But none of them are anything to do with the actual reason that was given for the change.
This article makes some good points. But none of them are anything to do with the actual reason that was given for the change.
Brychan Brycheiniog had anything up to 63 children by his three wives and numerous other women. In that spirit, which National Park should be renamed after Boris Johnson, and why? Still, many of Brychan’s children spread the Gospel to Devon and Cornwall, where they are venerated locally as saints, so there is hope for any dynasty.
A true father to his people, in more ways than one.
A true father to his people, in more ways than one.
Brychan Brycheiniog had anything up to 63 children by his three wives and numerous other women. In that spirit, which National Park should be renamed after Boris Johnson, and why? Still, many of Brychan’s children spread the Gospel to Devon and Cornwall, where they are venerated locally as saints, so there is hope for any dynasty.
Has anyone suggested that Welsh-speakers should call the Brecon Beacons anything other than ‘Bannau Brycheiniog’, as presumably they have always been doing when speaking Welsh? Assuming the answer to this is No, it seems odd to instruct English-speakers that they should no longer use the hallowed English term when speaking English, viz ‘Brecon Beacons’. (Should they no longer speak of Wales itself, but only of Cymru? After all the root meaning of ‘Welsh’ is foreigner, which seems a bit rude)
Interestingly I have heard Irish people object when English people use the term Eire rather than Ireland; they seem to find it patronising, perhaps even amounting to cultural appropriation. Pursuing this way of thinking, perhaps it should be considered imperialist-colonialist for English-speakers to call the Brecon Beacons anything but ‘the Brecon Beacons’. Alternatively we could all just carry on as before, speaking in a way most likely to allow ourselves to be understood. Unless of course making oneself understood is no longer the point: perhaps the point is the very opposite.
Has anyone suggested that Welsh-speakers should call the Brecon Beacons anything other than ‘Bannau Brycheiniog’, as presumably they have always been doing when speaking Welsh? Assuming the answer to this is No, it seems odd to instruct English-speakers that they should no longer use the hallowed English term when speaking English, viz ‘Brecon Beacons’. (Should they no longer speak of Wales itself, but only of Cymru? After all the root meaning of ‘Welsh’ is foreigner, which seems a bit rude)
Interestingly I have heard Irish people object when English people use the term Eire rather than Ireland; they seem to find it patronising, perhaps even amounting to cultural appropriation. Pursuing this way of thinking, perhaps it should be considered imperialist-colonialist for English-speakers to call the Brecon Beacons anything but ‘the Brecon Beacons’. Alternatively we could all just carry on as before, speaking in a way most likely to allow ourselves to be understood. Unless of course making oneself understood is no longer the point: perhaps the point is the very opposite.
It wasn’t so much the disregard for local differences and the protection of language that made me think it was bananas: it was more the fact that renaming the place to something most people have no clue how to pronounce is basically a massive PR own goal.
A compromise (which I assume will be where this all ends up once people calm down) will be a bilingual website and the use of both names…although most will probably still just say “the Brecon Beacons” – both out of habit and practicality.
The link to the carbon emissions was probably one of the most tenuous arguments I think I have ever come across. Just reading on Wiki that the argument that the name originated from the practice of lighting fires on said hills is not supported by much evidence anyway. Which just raises the current row to next level absurdity.
It looks nice there though. I should finally get round to visiting Wales.
You do know you’re expected to sing M’aen hen gwlad fy nadhau when you cross the border note perfect of course
This opinion is more or less my take on things as well. I have been to Wales many times – but I should explore more of it – but the pull of Cornwall and Cotswolds does tend to magnetise me.
You do know you’re expected to sing M’aen hen gwlad fy nadhau when you cross the border note perfect of course
This opinion is more or less my take on things as well. I have been to Wales many times – but I should explore more of it – but the pull of Cornwall and Cotswolds does tend to magnetise me.
It wasn’t so much the disregard for local differences and the protection of language that made me think it was bananas: it was more the fact that renaming the place to something most people have no clue how to pronounce is basically a massive PR own goal.
A compromise (which I assume will be where this all ends up once people calm down) will be a bilingual website and the use of both names…although most will probably still just say “the Brecon Beacons” – both out of habit and practicality.
The link to the carbon emissions was probably one of the most tenuous arguments I think I have ever come across. Just reading on Wiki that the argument that the name originated from the practice of lighting fires on said hills is not supported by much evidence anyway. Which just raises the current row to next level absurdity.
It looks nice there though. I should finally get round to visiting Wales.
The reason giving for the renaming is silly, but the deeper driver is entirely right. Wales is increasingly a country with a strong sense of identity and using the ancient language at least for place names is underscoring that sense of pride and worth.
Conservatives should see that. As they should in Scotland. Their pointless unionism, especially post Brexit, just allows the left the best tunes.
Speak for yourself. Half my family speak Gaelic (although I don’t) and most of this of ‘first language’, hectoring, socialist drivel just gets up people’s noses. And I’m quite ok with being in the UK. Are you suggesting I put forward some sort of conservative case for independence?
Yes
Yes
Speak for yourself. Half my family speak Gaelic (although I don’t) and most of this of ‘first language’, hectoring, socialist drivel just gets up people’s noses. And I’m quite ok with being in the UK. Are you suggesting I put forward some sort of conservative case for independence?
The reason giving for the renaming is silly, but the deeper driver is entirely right. Wales is increasingly a country with a strong sense of identity and using the ancient language at least for place names is underscoring that sense of pride and worth.
Conservatives should see that. As they should in Scotland. Their pointless unionism, especially post Brexit, just allows the left the best tunes.
Bora da!
I support reasonable and meaningful initiatives to foster the Welsh language, though acknowledge that the majority of people who live in Wales are English-speaking and do not speak Welsh. It is a beautiful language with a proud and distinguished heritage.
The author of this article has missed the point. People are angry about this decision because it is stupid and woke. It is doubly silly because the new Welsh name contains the word for ‘beacons’ – and yet we are informed that removing the English words ‘beacons’ with its connotations of fire and environmental pollution lay behind the decision.
It is also a bum decision as no public consultation occurred. But that is the hallmark of the arrogant elite who now rule us. Perhaps yet another instance of ‘decolonising’ the English?
One only has to contemplate the CV of the CEO, Ms Mealing-Jones, to appreciate that she is a member of the Woking Class with a pedigree of civil service appointments (UK Space Agency, UK Border Agency) that have no apparent relevance to managing a national park, other than they are senior management positions with top woke credentials. Ms M-J epitomises the Woking Class preoccupation with compliant managerialism and woke orthodoxy rather than employing experts in the subject area to manage the business.
If you’re an air force pilot, don’t bother to apply to manage the air force, as it were.
Bora da!
I support reasonable and meaningful initiatives to foster the Welsh language, though acknowledge that the majority of people who live in Wales are English-speaking and do not speak Welsh. It is a beautiful language with a proud and distinguished heritage.
The author of this article has missed the point. People are angry about this decision because it is stupid and woke. It is doubly silly because the new Welsh name contains the word for ‘beacons’ – and yet we are informed that removing the English words ‘beacons’ with its connotations of fire and environmental pollution lay behind the decision.
It is also a bum decision as no public consultation occurred. But that is the hallmark of the arrogant elite who now rule us. Perhaps yet another instance of ‘decolonising’ the English?
One only has to contemplate the CV of the CEO, Ms Mealing-Jones, to appreciate that she is a member of the Woking Class with a pedigree of civil service appointments (UK Space Agency, UK Border Agency) that have no apparent relevance to managing a national park, other than they are senior management positions with top woke credentials. Ms M-J epitomises the Woking Class preoccupation with compliant managerialism and woke orthodoxy rather than employing experts in the subject area to manage the business.
If you’re an air force pilot, don’t bother to apply to manage the air force, as it were.
For me (an English English speaking man living in Wales) the problem is not that the Brecon Beacons have been given a Welsh name but that they are trying to get rid of the English name. Wales is a bilingual country and fine for it to be Brecon Beacons/Bannau Brycheiniog but not for it to have just the one Welsh name when it has had a name for years.
For me (an English English speaking man living in Wales) the problem is not that the Brecon Beacons have been given a Welsh name but that they are trying to get rid of the English name. Wales is a bilingual country and fine for it to be Brecon Beacons/Bannau Brycheiniog but not for it to have just the one Welsh name when it has had a name for years.
Well in my opinion our loyal Welsh friends can call things in wales whatever they like. But dont expect me to get the pronunciation spot on.
For me they will be the Brecon Becons – but thats my ignorance of such matters.
Why don’t the British ( English? ) and the Welsh compromise and call it, oh I don’t know, how about “Wonderland” with a few extra consonants thrown in for good measure? Seriously. Can’t grown up people find more important things to bicker about?
Why don’t the British ( English? ) and the Welsh compromise and call it, oh I don’t know, how about “Wonderland” with a few extra consonants thrown in for good measure? Seriously. Can’t grown up people find more important things to bicker about?
Who cares about the name? The real question is, what are the correct pronouns?
Who cares about the name? The real question is, what are the correct pronouns?
I’m Welsh, and a Unionist – a word it would not have been even necessary to apply to a Welshman a few short years ago – but I have no problem with the name change. Undoubtedly there is a nationalistic component to the change, and the Nats are relying on the oh-so-predictable outrage of the Faragistas to feel good about themselves, but for centuries there has been ample room within Britishness for this superficially ‘foreign’ language and culture. Don’t let the nationalist bigots define and constrain what we are.
A tempest in a teapot. How terribly British! Or Welsh?
Can be both Welsh and British of course.
Can be both Welsh and British of course.
A tempest in a teapot. How terribly British! Or Welsh?
There’s nothing stopping them using the name Bannau Brycheiniog in Welsh-language materials, but why do English-speakers have to adopt foreign terms for things?
Non english speakers also change names to suit their own tongue and why not? Have you heard what The French call The UK? (The official one)
“You vill call Germany “Deutschland”, und you vill like it! Or else!”
Yes, but different rules apply between 2 separate countries. Wales is supposed to be British, not English. The right-wing furore about the naming issue gives the like to notions of cultural equality within the union. In the minds of English Tories, the only way to be British is to be English.
Yes, but different rules apply between 2 separate countries. Wales is supposed to be British, not English. The right-wing furore about the naming issue gives the like to notions of cultural equality within the union. In the minds of English Tories, the only way to be British is to be English.
Non english speakers also change names to suit their own tongue and why not? Have you heard what The French call The UK? (The official one)
“You vill call Germany “Deutschland”, und you vill like it! Or else!”
There’s nothing stopping them using the name Bannau Brycheiniog in Welsh-language materials, but why do English-speakers have to adopt foreign terms for things?
The country in which the Brecon Beacons are located is the UK. The first language of the UK is English. The mother tongue of the great majority of Welsh people is English. This is not just the case now; it has been the case for hundreds of years. The Brecon Beacons are on the borders of England and Wales. The vast majority of the people living within a couple of hours drive of Brecon Beacons National Park – for whom this resource is presumably primarily intended – are English, and English speaking. De-anglicisation in Wales is intended to drive a wedge between England and Wales, and to make English speakers in Wales feel like foreigners in their own country.
Agree with some of what you say. Wales is in the hands of the Labour Party and has been for years. It is one of the poorest parts of the UK. The Labour politicians do not want industry, nor new roads, nor tourists, nor new English settlers. So they have to stand for something – that ‘something’ being Welshness. It is OK to be poor as long as we are all in it together and being in it together means speaking Welsh. If it all goes pear-shaped, then England can be blamed.
The language is important and it is part of the culture. It is important not to lose this. In fact, Welsh speaking has been on the decline for at least 100 years but it is not true that English has been the mother tongue of the majority of the Welsh people for hundreds of years. Welsh went into decline around 1900 because it was suppressed by the English. Before that Welsh was the main spoken language. The politicos are, of course, manipulating the figures. In censuses pre 2021, the question was, ‘How many people in your house speak Welsh?’ In 2021 it was, ‘How many people in your house speak a few words of Welsh?’. Almost everybody is the new answer.
Agree with much of this. But English speakers in Wales significantly outnumbered Welsh speakers in the first census to record this (1891) and did so by a particularly wide margin in the counties of Brecon and Radnor.
“The Labour politicians do not want industry, nor new roads, nor tourists, nor new English settlers. So they have to stand for something – that ‘something’ being Welshness.”
Labour isn’t the fist party I think of when I think of standing for Wales. Plaid Cymru is the Welsh Nationalist party. Labour is only strong in the Valleys where they would vote in a sheep if it was wearing a red rosette, as the saying goes. That’s because of their industrial past and adhearance to socialism. Historically Welsh Wales was more Liberal. Welsh Labour, like socialists everywhere are only interested in lining their own pockets, hence the ongoing decline of the valleys.
Also, there are far more Welsh language schools in Wales now and my feeling is that there are more kids from non-Welsh speaking families learning Welsh. Also there are plenty of Welsh speaking families in the Welsher parts of Wales, such as Carmarthenshire, Cardiganshire, north Pembrokeshire, Gwynedd, where kids struggle to speak English until they go to school.
None of this has anything to do with why they’re making a fuss about calling the Brecon Beacons by its Welsh name. They’re ramping up to covering a beautiful part of Britain in useless, bird killing wind turbines. Please make a big fuss about that when it happens.
Your problem to me is that you want everything but you have no answers to any questions, apart from ‘the language’. You make your money with ‘the language’ so you have a vested interest in it.
So, how do you define ‘Welsh’? Is it being born in Wales, or living in Wales or speaking the language or having grandparents who were born in Wales….
Born in Wales doesn’t work for me. Speaking the language in everyday life doesn’t work either – who sits in front of the TV at night only watching re-runs of Pobl Y Cwm or The Welsh Whisperer? Grandparents born in Wales allows you to play football for Wales and that is all. Living in Wales? Well then you get people like me.
I have lived in Wales for 50 years. I have a business in Wales and pay corporation tax. I pay my own Council Tax. My wife was born in Wales and speaks Welsh fluently and NEVER watches S4C. I speak Italian, French and German.
Your problem, and this is why the people in the valleys vote Labour, is that you equate being Welsh with just one thing – speaking Welsh. Within the world and all of the 190 nations, that one thing is not enough.
Your problem to me is that you want everything but you have no answers to any questions, apart from ‘the language’. You make your money with ‘the language’ so you have a vested interest in it.
So, how do you define ‘Welsh’? Is it being born in Wales, or living in Wales or speaking the language or having grandparents who were born in Wales….
Born in Wales doesn’t work for me. Speaking the language in everyday life doesn’t work either – who sits in front of the TV at night only watching re-runs of Pobl Y Cwm or The Welsh Whisperer? Grandparents born in Wales allows you to play football for Wales and that is all. Living in Wales? Well then you get people like me.
I have lived in Wales for 50 years. I have a business in Wales and pay corporation tax. I pay my own Council Tax. My wife was born in Wales and speaks Welsh fluently and NEVER watches S4C. I speak Italian, French and German.
Your problem, and this is why the people in the valleys vote Labour, is that you equate being Welsh with just one thing – speaking Welsh. Within the world and all of the 190 nations, that one thing is not enough.
Agree with much of this. But English speakers in Wales significantly outnumbered Welsh speakers in the first census to record this (1891) and did so by a particularly wide margin in the counties of Brecon and Radnor.
“The Labour politicians do not want industry, nor new roads, nor tourists, nor new English settlers. So they have to stand for something – that ‘something’ being Welshness.”
Labour isn’t the fist party I think of when I think of standing for Wales. Plaid Cymru is the Welsh Nationalist party. Labour is only strong in the Valleys where they would vote in a sheep if it was wearing a red rosette, as the saying goes. That’s because of their industrial past and adhearance to socialism. Historically Welsh Wales was more Liberal. Welsh Labour, like socialists everywhere are only interested in lining their own pockets, hence the ongoing decline of the valleys.
Also, there are far more Welsh language schools in Wales now and my feeling is that there are more kids from non-Welsh speaking families learning Welsh. Also there are plenty of Welsh speaking families in the Welsher parts of Wales, such as Carmarthenshire, Cardiganshire, north Pembrokeshire, Gwynedd, where kids struggle to speak English until they go to school.
None of this has anything to do with why they’re making a fuss about calling the Brecon Beacons by its Welsh name. They’re ramping up to covering a beautiful part of Britain in useless, bird killing wind turbines. Please make a big fuss about that when it happens.
Agree with some of what you say. Wales is in the hands of the Labour Party and has been for years. It is one of the poorest parts of the UK. The Labour politicians do not want industry, nor new roads, nor tourists, nor new English settlers. So they have to stand for something – that ‘something’ being Welshness. It is OK to be poor as long as we are all in it together and being in it together means speaking Welsh. If it all goes pear-shaped, then England can be blamed.
The language is important and it is part of the culture. It is important not to lose this. In fact, Welsh speaking has been on the decline for at least 100 years but it is not true that English has been the mother tongue of the majority of the Welsh people for hundreds of years. Welsh went into decline around 1900 because it was suppressed by the English. Before that Welsh was the main spoken language. The politicos are, of course, manipulating the figures. In censuses pre 2021, the question was, ‘How many people in your house speak Welsh?’ In 2021 it was, ‘How many people in your house speak a few words of Welsh?’. Almost everybody is the new answer.
The country in which the Brecon Beacons are located is the UK. The first language of the UK is English. The mother tongue of the great majority of Welsh people is English. This is not just the case now; it has been the case for hundreds of years. The Brecon Beacons are on the borders of England and Wales. The vast majority of the people living within a couple of hours drive of Brecon Beacons National Park – for whom this resource is presumably primarily intended – are English, and English speaking. De-anglicisation in Wales is intended to drive a wedge between England and Wales, and to make English speakers in Wales feel like foreigners in their own country.
Welsh is a living language is it? That not something I noticed when living in Wales. Strongly proclaiming your support for the Welsh in English, now that was very much a living thing.
Apropos of this, I understand George Bernard Shaw once addressed a rowdy Irish crowd, “If you don’t sit down and be quiet, I shall continue this lecture in the language you profess to love, and none of you will understand a word.”
You’re hundreds of years out of date. Most modern Irish people hate the Irish language, and regularly write in to moan about having to study it at secondary school. In S Ireland, it’s long been fashionable to whinge about the Irish language.
You’re hundreds of years out of date. Most modern Irish people hate the Irish language, and regularly write in to moan about having to study it at secondary school. In S Ireland, it’s long been fashionable to whinge about the Irish language.
Funny. I’ve made a living through making Welsh language programmes for the last 30 years. It feels like a living language to me. There are probably more people speaking Welsh now than there were when I was in school in the 80s. Maybe you just weren’t living in a very Welsh part of Wales?
Also, if you are Welsh (or not Welsh) and don’t speak Welsh, you can still legitimately proclaim your support for Wales. I’m by no means a Welsh nationalist. I think that the Welsh assembly is a disaster for Wales, but I love the fact that Wales has its own culture and history and I can enjoy that uniqueness without being an idiot about it.
Apropos of this, I understand George Bernard Shaw once addressed a rowdy Irish crowd, “If you don’t sit down and be quiet, I shall continue this lecture in the language you profess to love, and none of you will understand a word.”
Funny. I’ve made a living through making Welsh language programmes for the last 30 years. It feels like a living language to me. There are probably more people speaking Welsh now than there were when I was in school in the 80s. Maybe you just weren’t living in a very Welsh part of Wales?
Also, if you are Welsh (or not Welsh) and don’t speak Welsh, you can still legitimately proclaim your support for Wales. I’m by no means a Welsh nationalist. I think that the Welsh assembly is a disaster for Wales, but I love the fact that Wales has its own culture and history and I can enjoy that uniqueness without being an idiot about it.
Welsh is a living language is it? That not something I noticed when living in Wales. Strongly proclaiming your support for the Welsh in English, now that was very much a living thing.