June 7, 2020 - 11:01am

Freddie Sayers talks to New York Times columnist Ross Douthat about his new book The Decadent Society, the religious aspect of antiracism protests, Obama and Trump, and whether lockdowns are a symptom of — or cure for — the decadent West.

Hold on to your hats, we hit some big topics in this half hour! Hope you enjoy.

You can listen to the podcast version of the discussion here.