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September 21, 2024 - 5:00pm
By far the biggest danger for a minor political party is that it gets ignored by the media.
If that happens, then gaining electoral traction becomes impossible and a downward spiral ensues. Hence, for example, the transformation of Lib Dem leader Ed Davey into a watersports Teletubby — at least we now remember he is there.
On this basis the Reform party conference in Birmingham must be judged a relative success. There was major coverage of Nigel Farage claiming to have given up control of the party organisation via changes in its ownership structure; Farage saying he has been advised not to hold in-person surgeries in his Clacton constituency; and Farage saying he is setting off on a mission to become PM at the next election. From all this we may conclude that he is a story machine — and he did not even have to get his feet wet.
His speech contained an obligatory Keir Starmer freebie joke, as well as more serious messages about professionalising the party. This was no doubt in response to the outspoken criticism from former deputy leader Ben Habib, who said last month, “I have long held concerns about the control of the party and the decision-making processes.”
Theoretically, Farage can now be challenged for the leadership if half the 80,000 members write to the chairman demanding a confidence vote. The same 50% trigger will apply to the parliamentary party once Reform has at least 100 MPs. But really, if Reform gets to 100 MPs then on what basis would anyone wish to replace the leader anyway?
The biggest weakness in the Reform offer by far concerns its slapdash approach to policy formation. An insurgency can get away with that when it is small fry, but once its ambitions are raised the lack of stress-tested policy can unravel everything very quickly.
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SubscribeThe key here is that the Tories no longer have a reason to exist. Their policies are indistinguishable from Labour. There’s a market for a right of centre party, but the Tories refuse to fill it. Reform is at least willing to try. The Tories only choices seem to be 1) allow a friendly takeover by Farage & co. or 2) fade into obscurity.
Utter drivel.
Reform are hardly different to the Tories. Have you heard him shy away from committing deportations or saying that it doesn’t matter that the British remain the majority in the country as long as the newcomers adopt our values? Never mind the Tories he sounds like Labour with that.
You can’t “deport” anyone if the country to which the internee is supposed to be returned to doesn’t agree! Details and competence matter, not just grandstanding, whether from Trump, Reform or your more right wing agenda, whatever that may be. Almost the entire supposed restrict immigration project of Trump appeared to be just that; he didn’t in any way fix the problem, although he certainly capitalised on it politically.
Oh, and you do actually need to get INTO power, where a lot of liberal people think that the narrative of controlling immigration is borderline racist. I don’t agree with them, but they are an important section of the electorate. Some on the Right delight in endlessly living up to the extreme characterisation – Farage to his credit does not.
I hope Reform can do better, or push other parties into doing so. I rather doubt it will be via your simplistic slogans.
Is it? I didn’t even know they were having a conference.
Actually I think I read a thing or two in the passing, but paid zero attention to it.
Now, the question is whether I will be paying attention to the Tory conference.
Agree with the author’s point about credible policies – hopefully this will be a part of ‘professionalising the party’.
Wouldn’t rely too heavily on BBC verify though, mainly because it’s been debunked on a number of occasions now and it’s from an organisation with a known bias on this topic.
BBC Verify exists for the BBC to try and claim their bias on a subject is fact-based. It is highly subjective and fools very few people.
Ok so if you don’t rely on that outline how you’ll take the boats back to France and what then happens? Let’s test how much thought you’ve really given this.
Did you actually read my post?
Where did l say anything about taking the boats back to France?
Do try to pay attention
Reform is nothing more than Farage’s latest project at poking the establishment in the eye. Now that he can’t do that to the EU, he wants to do it in Westminster.
Once he gets bored of that & moves on, Reform will be like UKIP & cease to exist
First one to end permanent asylum, family reunion and any route to citizenship plus end legal aid to foreigners, leave the ECHR and immediately deport all foreign criminals wherever they are from without recourse to any form of appeal will win.
Stop the pull is the only answer.
It’s not difficult if you want to do it.
Convey a few wishes quite easy I would grant you. Each one though is much more complicated when it comes to delivery. I strongly suspect your thoughts on the matter stopped on the slogan.
Let’s just play with the deporting criminals – which generally we might agree with as a desire. Do we have an arrangement with the Taliban that allows us to fly them into Kabul? Ditto Assad’s Syria, or even civil war torn Libya? You offering to take them in hope you get allowed out afterwards (before you volunteer someone else)? Trickier isn’t it when you have to give it a bit of thought.
Leaving ECHR ? how many other international treaties is it a requirement within and impact of unilaterally removing that clause? Thought about it or don’t care? (I suspect we are going to see ECHR subtly move some of it’s judgment in different direction anyway)
You focused on asylum. The much bigger number is legal migration. Any thoughts?
Firstly, it is not ” migration” but immigration! Secondly, at risk of arrest and prosecution, dare I say that 99.9 pc of the populus agree, but are not allowed to say that there are so many immigrants that we welcome, respect and appreciate, but by the same token rather more who we simply do not, and are a threat to our country- here speaketh a ” first generation Brit” from 2 immigrant parents!
And your point is FT?
It’s legit to contend an element of net migration is not helping our Country. But important to not lump all together. Some of it is absolutely vital to your and mine well being. On the element that is less helpful, Reform, which is what the Article was about, fail repeatedly to come up with anything but slogans. You too seem unable to move much beyond what you don’t like to how that might be constructively addressed.
LOL. You must a white South African? Or White New Zealander? Eh mate?
It’s not difficult Yes. It’s all easy until you begin to think about it.
LOL. These White SUPREMACISTS Grifters have all the answers until they have to execute. They thought BREXIT would solve all their problems. All though succeeded in doing is making UK a basket case. They forgot it was some White kids from Liverpool who was opened to listening and embraceing Black music and culture from Black America that has made England culturally relevant for past 70 years. They would be listening to German and Polish Polka music if it wasn’t for the Black man.
“German and Polish Polka music”. And what’s wrong with that?
As someone who is old enough to remember the earliest days of the Beatles and the Rolling Stones, I rather wish that they had never existed. The cultural dominance of MOBO is a civilisational stain.
‘Within days the UK would have no Border Force or RNLI vessels left, meaning that it would have to go begging the authorities in France for their return.’
This is quite funny, we are unable to protect our borders for fear of getting jacked by the French. I wonder how much it costs to house a boat load of migrants compared to the price of a border force boat you could leave in France. We could use cheaper boats. The French would then at least get some free boats back with the migrants they are failing to stop.
So your brainwave is just replace the boats and border force staff quicker than the rubber dinghies cross the channel? Genius. Let’s hope Einstein’s like yourself get into power at some point.
And your alternative plan is?
I thought it was creative.
It’s do nothing.
I’m almost tempted to cost it up.
Outlined numerous times, but to repeat – Hit the criminal gangs harder and apply anti-terrorism laws to it to give law enforcement more powers; rapid data sharing improvement with France and EU to aid that (gone backwards post Brexit); re-engage with multilateral approach to protecting the EU border as otherwise why wouldn’t likes of France just let them pass through on their way to us; ID cards in UK to reduce one of the ‘marketing’ angles used by smugglers as to why going to UK attractive; asylum granting only initially as temporary; investment in proper holding centres and processing; better management quickly of the billions spent on housing in Hotels (it’s a Grifters charter at the mo); and honesty with public this is not solved quickly esp as we’ve wasted last 7 years.
Your go please.
Stop paying them. Stop giving them mobile phones, bicycles, etc.Put them under canvas. Stop enriching the legal profession by allowing unlimited appeals. Conviction of any offence where the sentence could be more than one year to be deported. Multi lesser offenses ditto. If granted asylum to sign contract acknowledging legal consequences of crime. No citizenship for ten years – ditto family joining. No unemployment benefits until 2 years (proper) jobs with good conduct signed off. If found lying about age or reasons for asylum request to be deported immediately. If, for any reason unable to deport then to remain under canvas.
Lets see how many want to stay.
1. Have a referendum on whether the citizens of this society want to have a continuation of the current system or a new system which would reduce immigration. 2. If the referendum indicates that the public wish for a reduction in immigration hold a second referendum 6 months later offering a reduction to around 100,000 or zero. 3. Make the Royal Navy responsible for border security 4. Increase the number of patrol boats (from three?) and increase patrols so that there is coverage of at the maritime border with France 5. Use a points based system to reach the targeted immigration number 6. Use offshore processing (Ascension Island? One of the uninhabited Channel Islands?)all illegal immigrants and introduce legislation to prevent appeals 7. Any illegal immigrant to be identified with DNA testing and banned from entering the UK for life. 8. Exit whichever treaties prevent British control of its borders 9. Dramatically reduce the number of student visas and remove those who overstay visas. End family reunion and family members accompanying students. 10. Bring in identity cards and only allow citizens to have access to welfare, healthcare, education, housing and the vote, 11. Require citizens and visa holders to sign a legal agreement to respect secular liberal values and to eschew crime or violence 12. Increase police, prisons, sentences submit the judiciary to measurement of their adherence to the law. 13. Have a referendum on whether the death penalty should be reintroduced.
Do the border force staff get impounded as well?
Maybe we could crew the border force boats with Channel migrants then it wouldn’t be a problem.
I didn’t envisage it to be a real solution to our border problem. I see you have misplaced your sense of humour this morning. I imagine it would create quite a stir if offered up as a solution.
I do not want to be ‘in power’.
His sense of humour?
Well I think it’s funny. I’m not allowed to though, my reply has now been moderated and my comments removed.
Obviously cyber force have lost their sense of humour today. Must be the day for it.
Trouble is BE even if you thought just a semi-joke there are numpties who support Reform who think it’s a practical option and will give it a cheer. The whole conference appeared to be one similar bit of nonsense after the other.
Now we could let these Asylum seekers pick our fruit and veg or similar whilst we deal with the backlog – paid minimum wage, and thus offset some of the hotel costs.
‘Trouble is BE even if you thought just a semi-joke there are numpties who support Reform who think it’s a practical option and will give it a cheer’
Who?
How can they already think it is a practical option when I have only just come up with it?
Obviously it would not be a practical option when, as the article states, we cannot really do that. I think the information in the article :
‘Reform claimed this would be legal under the UN Law Of the Sea. BBC Verify has just conclusively demonstrated that it would not be. And in any case, even if France did allow British vessels to dock in its ports to unload Channel migrants, the likelihood is that it would then impound such vessels’
makes it pretty clear that my post is not going to be practical.
I don’t think any serious political party would really go with it publicly do you?
Is humour not allowed incase it’s misconstrued by people that cannot reconcile the facts in the article with comment section below?
I protest that I am in moderation again.
I wonder. I suspect if you’d had a load of comments confirm the merit of your suggestion you’d have been delighted. Fact it got pulled apart as obvious twaddle meant you moved quickly to ‘I was just having a laugh’ defence. That at least shows some insight.
I like getting pulled apart. I live for it.
Let’s make it a serious suggestion.
Next time there is a discussion about immigrantion I will cost up this option and write it up like a real proposal, see how we do.
Goodness me. Hate to tell you, but they’re not here to “pick fruit”.
‘…slapdash approach to policy formation’. “stop the boats” policy was also full of holes’. Says it’ all really doesn’t it. Amplifiers of rage, clueless on actual solutions. Classic Populism.
Watched bit of their Conference. One comedy speaker after another raging about things like rainbow lanyards and diverse contestants on Strictly. Farage doesn’t want anymore bigots in the party too apparently, which is ‘non-sequitur’ if ever there was one. You have to be bit of a bigot to buy into this tosh and lack of actual practical thinking. Sorry but it’s true. If we want less net migration, which most of us do, engage with the challenge properly and recognise when you are being triggered.
Lots of silliness really and v little of substance. Few balloons bouncing around an echo chamber of twaddle.
‘ If we want less net migration, which most of us do, engage with the challenge properly and recognise when you are being triggered’
Please. Tell us how.
How do we ‘engage with the challenge’
when it has been disengaged with by government after government.
What is ‘triggered’. When is a human not ‘triggered’ by something or another. Aren’t most of our responses to absolutely anything and everything ‘triggered’?
When is a response not ‘triggered’ by something or another?
You/we want less net legal migration – going to require skills, training and national investment strategies for specific industries and sectors. That’ll require some funding strategies both public and private. Unremarkably heard nothing about any of that in the Reform conference, or from yourself. Truth is you/Reform aren’t serious about addressing the issue. You just want to amplify the rage and get a temporary ‘high’ from it.
I swear you get high on amplifying nonsense. I’m nearly past caring. About all things Westminster.
Loved your choice of the phrase Classic Populism. Judging by your other comments I think you mean Modern Populism. Using the phrase in a dismissive way, with a strong hint of arrogance and intellectual superiority. Let’s see how it ends.
Actually hadn’t thought someone would associate ‘classic’ with the Classical World, but on pondering I suspect Populism back then had much the same elements.
If the bar wasn’t set so low by the Populist who promulgate slogans rather than practical well considered policies the critique of intellectual superiority probably couldn’t be made, but so be it. You’ve had 14 years of poor practical thinking. You should be a little more demanding.
j watson is profoundly unserious about addressing immigration.
“By far the biggest danger for a minor political party is that it gets ignored by the media.”
This rings very true. I have been a member of the SDP. As much as I like the party’s agenda, it simply could not get media attention during the General Election campaign despite fielding 122 parliamentary candidates.
I have since left the SDP and joined Reform UK as a member since I believe it truly has the best chance of getting into power in the next General Election, and Nigel Farage is a far more experienced politician than Sir Keir Starmer, so will make a better PM.
Britain needs to change to the AV voting system.
Agreed. Australia has it and has a much more representative, responsive and effective political system. That is why Australia has been booming for 40 years and is a very successful and cohesive society, despite its high (but controlled) immigration. Many Australian politicians are very capable people unlike the clowns who populate British politics. And make voting compulsory. And have an elected upper house rather than an appointed House of Lords which is a blatant instrument of corruption.
“Reform claimed [taking boats back to France] would be legal under the UN Law Of the Sea. BBC Verify has just conclusively demonstrated that it would not be. ”
If that is true why can France do it now, but not the UK when Reform runs the country? Your argument fails right there Patrick.