“The issue falls along partisan lines, with 77% of Democrats and 42% of Republicans supporting further Ukraine aid, compared to 65% of Republicans and 36% of Democrats backing the same for Israel, the Quinnipiac poll found.” What does this tell one. (1) Democrats love to throw money down the drain by backing a loosing side, Ukraine, that cannot hope to prevail over the much larger and stronger Russian Federation – the correct thing to do right now is negotiate a peace settlement, with the Donbass staying under Russian control. This may not be idea but the ability of Ukraine and its western allies to obtain a reasonable compromise is not going to improve. (2) With respect to Israel and the current situation with Hamas, the Democratic party and their supporters have (a) a very sizable group of anti-semites in their midst, and (b) absolutely no moral compass.
What are you talking about? The UK, while gradually on the way down, was still the greatest empire the world had ever known at that time. So not exactly comparable to the situation of Ukraine vs Russia. As it is, it is evident, given the style of warfare being pursued in Ukraine that the situation is analogous to the type of warfare that was carried out in WWI, in which case it is almost impossible for Ukraine to advance forward and reconquer areas lost to the Russians.
Both countries are important. Israel are more secure than Ukraine with their knowhow but living in danger is a constant for them. Ukraine is facing demolition by Russia which is a great tragedy. One thing is sure and that is that Ukriane will use their aid with their lives to defend themselves so none of it is wasted. Do we just throw Ukarine to the dogs?
You seem to be suffering from the delusion that Putin would be satisfied with the Donbas and not renew hostilities once he had rearmed. He’s made his intentions very clear in speeches and writings. Why don’t people believe him?
Believe what? Putin is not going to invade Europe. He’s not going to attack a NATO country. Why would he? He and Russia have always been clear about Ukraine remaining neutral. For years, the West swore up and down that there would be no eastward expansion of the alliance. Well, that was a lie, wasn’t it? So, tell me who’s credibility stands above reproach here.
You are right that the Ukraine war should be settled by negotiation, but to describe those who object to their tax dollars being used to slaughter thousands of people as “anti Semitic” makes the phrase meaningless. Many of those protesting against the mass murder in Gaza are themselves Jews. By implying that all Jews support Israel is in itself anti Semitic because you are implying that all Jews support mass murder.
again, using the label antisemite to shut down any criticism of Israeli government policies. So all are supposed to stay silent on its current murderous campaign against defenceless Gazan women and children, targeted killing of journalists so the truth of the horror does not get out; its starvation of this population and cutting off of essential life supplies. Saying this truth is ‘antisemite’ so israel continues with impunity, as being held accountable, or complying with international law, is antisemtic
David Kingsworthy
4 months ago
I live in a small town in Michigan and though we are certainly not exposed to so many progressive people and ideas, I still doubt the conclusions of this article, mainly because I disbelieve all the polls these days. I think support for Israel is as high or higher nationwide than for Ukraine. Maybe the pollsters in this case didn’t ask people like me?
Alex Lekas
4 months ago
The issue falls along partisan lines,
Well, of course, it does; doesn’t everything these days. What’s curious is that one party favors supporting a nation that suspended democratic practices such as regular elections, opposition parties, a free media, etc., while opposing aid to a nation that is much like ours. In essence, Dems are openly siding with Hamas, which is mind-boggling since the left is the side perpetually mewling about “we have to save our democracy.”
It would seem that an actual fan of democracy would support the nation that practices it over the one that does not. But these are also the same people who believe men can get pregnant, that America is a racist hellscape, and that 2+2 does not have to equal four.
Compared to Ukraine, I’d like to hear how it’s not. Bibi will likely be voted out on the next go-round; Zelenskyy will either leave for one of the homes we’ve helped him buy or meet a different end at the hands of his countrymen, but he’s not going to face an election.
There was an all Party government in the UK during the Second World War, and an election during the War would not have changed that: hence all party agreement to defer the general election until the War was won. In a democracy without that political consensus and all party government, one would expect contested elections to occur, as they did during the American Civil War for example.
This is just silly nonsense . Notwithstanding the recent shenanigans by Netanyahu , Israel has built a strong thriving democracy over the years with world class telecoms, IT, and superb education system. (open to all religions and creeds). Only democracies can innovate like that.
hamas is not a state but an occupation resistance group; Israel has been murdering and ethnically cleansing Palestinians for decades. If israel had not been illegally occupying and blocading Gaza, there would not have been an Oct 7. Think of the Warsaw Ghetto uprising – a revolt by a resistance movement from the populatioinon slowly being strangled. Similarities with Gaza continue- most of the remaining population were deported and then murdered in an operation called Operation Harvest Festival. Is this the inspiration for Israeli penchant for naming its murderous campaigns against Palestinians?
Steve Jolly
4 months ago
I’m not surprised support for Ukraine is holding. It was an unambiguous case of a large powerful country invading a smaller weaker neighbor, oh and it just so happens the large and powerful country is a traditional foe of the US. The opposition is largely America’s isolationist tendencies coming to the forefront. America has a limited tolerance for open-ended conflict. Administrations can basically assume high approval at the start of a conflict that will decay over time. How quickly it decays depends on circumstances like how much is being spent, whether any Americans are dying, who’s winning the conflict, what the conditions on the ground are like, etc. Vietnam basically established a pattern that has held up pretty reliably ever since. The Ukraine conflict is expensive, and is perceived to be in a stalemate, which works against continued support, but no Americans are actually dying, and it’s against Russia, so that works in favor of continued support. After just two years, the approval level is within expectations. Support will continue to decline and may accelerate or even rebound to some degree during the election cycle based on what happens and how the politicians spin it, but it won’t hold up indefinitely and both sides know that (though someone should probably explain this to Zelensky).
The current holdup in Congress for funding actually has very little to do with Ukraine and more to do with how political machinery works in the US. Because the Republican margin in the House is narrow, it just takes a few of them to hold up the process by refusing to vote for a measure, even one that’s been negotiated and already passed the Senate. The opposition party almost never votes for the other party’s legislation these days, even for the budget because it usually favors the majority party and as a general rule, the parties don’t help each other without getting something in return, especially these days with so much polarization. The handful of Representatives holding up passage is using that to their advantage because it means it doesn’t take many of them to bring the whole operation to a grinding halt. In this case, the objective is simply to hinder the administration and score political points against it. They’re obstructing the administration’s ability to address an issue of foreign policy that the administration values in order to point out another issue that is important to their base and many Americans of all stripes, but has been largely ignored by the administration. They might back down, or they might torpedo the bill and force the leadership to go back to the drawing board and reach some compromise that will get enough Democratic votes to pass the bill. The Democrats will of course seize the opportunity to ask for something they can take back to their constituencies in an election year. This is why the phrase ‘horse trading’ comes up so often in American politics.
Last edited 4 months ago by Steve Jolly
Bernard Brothman
4 months ago
I would like to see rates of support by gender. There have been a number of articles about young progressive women leading or heavily engaged in anti-Israel/pro-Hamas demonstration and or converting to Islam.
“The issue falls along partisan lines, with 77% of Democrats and 42% of Republicans supporting further Ukraine aid, compared to 65% of Republicans and 36% of Democrats backing the same for Israel, the Quinnipiac poll found.” What does this tell one. (1) Democrats love to throw money down the drain by backing a loosing side, Ukraine, that cannot hope to prevail over the much larger and stronger Russian Federation – the correct thing to do right now is negotiate a peace settlement, with the Donbass staying under Russian control. This may not be idea but the ability of Ukraine and its western allies to obtain a reasonable compromise is not going to improve. (2) With respect to Israel and the current situation with Hamas, the Democratic party and their supporters have (a) a very sizable group of anti-semites in their midst, and (b) absolutely no moral compass.
Thanks goodness FDR didn’t adopt your logic in 1940.
What are you talking about? The UK, while gradually on the way down, was still the greatest empire the world had ever known at that time. So not exactly comparable to the situation of Ukraine vs Russia. As it is, it is evident, given the style of warfare being pursued in Ukraine that the situation is analogous to the type of warfare that was carried out in WWI, in which case it is almost impossible for Ukraine to advance forward and reconquer areas lost to the Russians.
He wasn’t alive then.
FDR was President from 1933 until he died in 1945
Both countries are important. Israel are more secure than Ukraine with their knowhow but living in danger is a constant for them. Ukraine is facing demolition by Russia which is a great tragedy. One thing is sure and that is that Ukriane will use their aid with their lives to defend themselves so none of it is wasted. Do we just throw Ukarine to the dogs?
They cannot win this war. Get them to the negotiating table where they should have been at the beginning.
Seems people are quite content to see hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians sacrificed in this proxy war.
You seem to be suffering from the delusion that Putin would be satisfied with the Donbas and not renew hostilities once he had rearmed. He’s made his intentions very clear in speeches and writings. Why don’t people believe him?
Believe what? Putin is not going to invade Europe. He’s not going to attack a NATO country. Why would he? He and Russia have always been clear about Ukraine remaining neutral. For years, the West swore up and down that there would be no eastward expansion of the alliance. Well, that was a lie, wasn’t it? So, tell me who’s credibility stands above reproach here.
You are right that the Ukraine war should be settled by negotiation, but to describe those who object to their tax dollars being used to slaughter thousands of people as “anti Semitic” makes the phrase meaningless. Many of those protesting against the mass murder in Gaza are themselves Jews. By implying that all Jews support Israel is in itself anti Semitic because you are implying that all Jews support mass murder.
Quite right, Frank!
Again, using ther term ant semite for any legitime criticism of israeli policies is DISHONEST and a way to shut down discussion, so censorship
again, using the label antisemite to shut down any criticism of Israeli government policies. So all are supposed to stay silent on its current murderous campaign against defenceless Gazan women and children, targeted killing of journalists so the truth of the horror does not get out; its starvation of this population and cutting off of essential life supplies. Saying this truth is ‘antisemite’ so israel continues with impunity, as being held accountable, or complying with international law, is antisemtic
I live in a small town in Michigan and though we are certainly not exposed to so many progressive people and ideas, I still doubt the conclusions of this article, mainly because I disbelieve all the polls these days. I think support for Israel is as high or higher nationwide than for Ukraine. Maybe the pollsters in this case didn’t ask people like me?
The issue falls along partisan lines,
Well, of course, it does; doesn’t everything these days. What’s curious is that one party favors supporting a nation that suspended democratic practices such as regular elections, opposition parties, a free media, etc., while opposing aid to a nation that is much like ours. In essence, Dems are openly siding with Hamas, which is mind-boggling since the left is the side perpetually mewling about “we have to save our democracy.”
It would seem that an actual fan of democracy would support the nation that practices it over the one that does not. But these are also the same people who believe men can get pregnant, that America is a racist hellscape, and that 2+2 does not have to equal four.
I suppose you are assuming Israel is a democracy?
Compared to Ukraine, I’d like to hear how it’s not. Bibi will likely be voted out on the next go-round; Zelenskyy will either leave for one of the homes we’ve helped him buy or meet a different end at the hands of his countrymen, but he’s not going to face an election.
I’d Britain not a democracy because she suspended elections during the Second World War?
did Britain also outlaw and jail opposition parties or journos or priests?
If they were spying or actively recruiting for the Germans then yes they did
There was an all Party government in the UK during the Second World War, and an election during the War would not have changed that: hence all party agreement to defer the general election until the War was won. In a democracy without that political consensus and all party government, one would expect contested elections to occur, as they did during the American Civil War for example.
This is just silly nonsense . Notwithstanding the recent shenanigans by Netanyahu , Israel has built a strong thriving democracy over the years with world class telecoms, IT, and superb education system. (open to all religions and creeds). Only democracies can innovate like that.
hamas is not a state but an occupation resistance group; Israel has been murdering and ethnically cleansing Palestinians for decades. If israel had not been illegally occupying and blocading Gaza, there would not have been an Oct 7. Think of the Warsaw Ghetto uprising – a revolt by a resistance movement from the populatioinon slowly being strangled. Similarities with Gaza continue- most of the remaining population were deported and then murdered in an operation called Operation Harvest Festival. Is this the inspiration for Israeli penchant for naming its murderous campaigns against Palestinians?
I’m not surprised support for Ukraine is holding. It was an unambiguous case of a large powerful country invading a smaller weaker neighbor, oh and it just so happens the large and powerful country is a traditional foe of the US. The opposition is largely America’s isolationist tendencies coming to the forefront. America has a limited tolerance for open-ended conflict. Administrations can basically assume high approval at the start of a conflict that will decay over time. How quickly it decays depends on circumstances like how much is being spent, whether any Americans are dying, who’s winning the conflict, what the conditions on the ground are like, etc. Vietnam basically established a pattern that has held up pretty reliably ever since. The Ukraine conflict is expensive, and is perceived to be in a stalemate, which works against continued support, but no Americans are actually dying, and it’s against Russia, so that works in favor of continued support. After just two years, the approval level is within expectations. Support will continue to decline and may accelerate or even rebound to some degree during the election cycle based on what happens and how the politicians spin it, but it won’t hold up indefinitely and both sides know that (though someone should probably explain this to Zelensky).
The current holdup in Congress for funding actually has very little to do with Ukraine and more to do with how political machinery works in the US. Because the Republican margin in the House is narrow, it just takes a few of them to hold up the process by refusing to vote for a measure, even one that’s been negotiated and already passed the Senate. The opposition party almost never votes for the other party’s legislation these days, even for the budget because it usually favors the majority party and as a general rule, the parties don’t help each other without getting something in return, especially these days with so much polarization. The handful of Representatives holding up passage is using that to their advantage because it means it doesn’t take many of them to bring the whole operation to a grinding halt. In this case, the objective is simply to hinder the administration and score political points against it. They’re obstructing the administration’s ability to address an issue of foreign policy that the administration values in order to point out another issue that is important to their base and many Americans of all stripes, but has been largely ignored by the administration. They might back down, or they might torpedo the bill and force the leadership to go back to the drawing board and reach some compromise that will get enough Democratic votes to pass the bill. The Democrats will of course seize the opportunity to ask for something they can take back to their constituencies in an election year. This is why the phrase ‘horse trading’ comes up so often in American politics.
I would like to see rates of support by gender. There have been a number of articles about young progressive women leading or heavily engaged in anti-Israel/pro-Hamas demonstration and or converting to Islam.