The right is far less creedal than the current ”liberal” left. Hence, you’re not going to get any new ideas from the current left
Jeff Butcher
11 months ago
“British politics might soon reach a point where the Conservative Party is the natural home of intellectual energy, new ideas and dissent,”
Hilarious
Caradog Wiliams
11 months ago
The Labour Party has been treading water in the Welsh Assembly for over 20 years. Basically, it asks the UK for more money and gives that away to the ‘poor’ (defined as real poor, potential students, increasing numbers of Assembly employees).
Driscoll sounds like a breath of fresh air – stale air in a modern setting. It should appeal to many new voters.
Last edited 11 months ago by Caradog Wiliams
Caradog Wiliams
11 months ago
The Labour Party has been treading water in the Welsh Assembly for over 20 years. Basically, it asks the UK for more money and gives that away to the ‘poor’ (defined as real poor, potential students, increasing numbers of Assembly employees).
Driscoll sounds like a breath of fresh air – stale air in a modern setting. It should appeal to many new voters.
Last edited 11 months ago by Caradog Wiliams
Rasmus Fogh
11 months ago
Much that is sensible here. But it misses a fairly big point: Labour was last kicked (not ‘out’) by the voters when it ran Corbyn – and refused to take a decision on – or be honest about – or even engage with – the biggest political issue of the day: Brexit. Corbynite Labour was not a shining beacon of openness, honesty, clear talking, or pluralism. There may well be a lot wrong with Starmers approach in general, or the ousting of Jamie Driscoll in particular. But giving more space to the Corbyn wing is not any kind of solution.
Rasmus Fogh
11 months ago
Much that is sensible here. But it misses a fairly big point: Labour was last kicked (not ‘out’) by the voters when it ran Corbyn – and refused to take a decision on – or be honest about – or even engage with – the biggest political issue of the day: Brexit. Corbynite Labour was not a shining beacon of openness, honesty, clear talking, or pluralism. There may well be a lot wrong with Starmers approach in general, or the ousting of Jamie Driscoll in particular. But giving more space to the Corbyn wing is not any kind of solution.
James Kirk
11 months ago
…urn of dead assumptions.
Dead? They assume the working class are their core vote while pursuing student trendy progressive nonsense. Remember the Arab Spring? ‘Useful’ students ferried about by taxi drivers. That went well for them eh?
If only Corbyn had beaten May in 2017. There’d have been a general election, probably delayed by Covid, and Labour would have been reduced to the state the Tories are likely going to be in soon.
Last edited 11 months ago by James Kirk
James Kirk
11 months ago
…urn of dead assumptions.
Dead? They assume the working class are their core vote while pursuing student trendy progressive nonsense. Remember the Arab Spring? ‘Useful’ students ferried about by taxi drivers. That went well for them eh?
If only Corbyn had beaten May in 2017. There’d have been a general election, probably delayed by Covid, and Labour would have been reduced to the state the Tories are likely going to be in soon.
Last edited 11 months ago by James Kirk
j watson
11 months ago
Starmer knows the core of the country is the moderate-centrist and Lab can only win from there. People want competency and bit less ideology right now too. So this won’t do him any harm.
Is it though? You forget Corbyn ran the Tories very close during the 2017 election, despite the leader himself being fairly unpopular some his policies actually proved to be vote winners. It only fell apart at the subsequent election when he decided to use Starmers blueprint for Brexit which cost him vast numbers of Leave voting seats in Labours strongholds
Not really. Labour did not go with Starmer on Brexit – that would have been a clear remainer stance. Nor did they come out for a soft Brexit, or a hard Brexit, or any other Brexit. They refused to take a stand, said they would negotiate a better deal (how?) and also promote a referendum to overturn it, and just scolded the Tories without saying what they actually intended to do. Their only line was “let us talk about something else, and just get JC in power – whatever he does will be great.” It does not help to have some popular policies – mixed in with a smorgasbord of less popular policies. – if it is totally unclear what your priorities are, what you actually want to do, or whether you can deliver it.
And, anyway, if Labour had gone for hard Brexit – like the Tories – they would have lost vast numbers of votes to the Lib Dems running for remain. A clear choice for a soft Brexit might have carried them through, but that was never possible with a woolly brexiteer like Corbyn in charge.
Not really. Labour did not go with Starmer on Brexit – that would have been a clear remainer stance. Nor did they come out for a soft Brexit, or a hard Brexit, or any other Brexit. They refused to take a stand, said they would negotiate a better deal (how?) and also promote a referendum to overturn it, and just scolded the Tories without saying what they actually intended to do. Their only line was “let us talk about something else, and just get JC in power – whatever he does will be great.” It does not help to have some popular policies – mixed in with a smorgasbord of less popular policies. – if it is totally unclear what your priorities are, what you actually want to do, or whether you can deliver it.
And, anyway, if Labour had gone for hard Brexit – like the Tories – they would have lost vast numbers of votes to the Lib Dems running for remain. A clear choice for a soft Brexit might have carried them through, but that was never possible with a woolly brexiteer like Corbyn in charge.
Is it though? You forget Corbyn ran the Tories very close during the 2017 election, despite the leader himself being fairly unpopular some his policies actually proved to be vote winners. It only fell apart at the subsequent election when he decided to use Starmers blueprint for Brexit which cost him vast numbers of Leave voting seats in Labours strongholds
I rarely agree with you but you are right re Starmer approach.
I still hate Starmer though for trying to stop Brexit and then promoting traitor like Corbyn as a suitable candidate for PM.
I rarely agree with you but you are right re Starmer approach.
I still hate Starmer though for trying to stop Brexit and then promoting traitor like Corbyn as a suitable candidate for PM.
j watson
11 months ago
Starmer knows the core of the country is the moderate-centrist and Lab can only win from there. People want competency and bit less ideology right now too. So this won’t do him any harm.
James Kirk
11 months ago
…urn of dead assumptions.
Dead? They assume the working class are their core vote while pursuing student trendy progressive nonsense. Remember the Arab Spring? ‘Useful’ students ferried about by taxi drivers. That went well for them eh?
If only Corbyn had beaten May in 2017. There’d have been a general election, probably delayed by Covid, and Labour would have been reduced to the state the Tories are likely going to be in soon.
Andrew F
11 months ago
I don’t particularly care for Labour Party but surely any party leadership has a right to choose candidates to their liking.
Reality is that candidates win mostly due to party machine support first, voters herd instinct second and personal quality distant last (10% max).
There are outliers like Johnson but general trend is as described.
If this guy doesn’t like it he can stand as independent and let see how many votes he gets.
David Lindsay
11 months ago
“Clearly incompatible with our promise to have zero tolerance,” you say? Has Jamie Driscoll been expelled from the Labour Party, then? Have the Labour members of his Cabinet been expelled from the Labour Party? Have the Conservative members of his Cabinet been expelled from the Conservative Party?
How come none of them, nor Simon Clarke, nor Nadhim Zahawi, nor Ben Bradley, has ever noticed that Jamie was a “Trot”, or an anti-Semite, or whatever? Is Kim McGuinness likely to be so “refreshingly non-partisan”, so “professional”, and so noted for “not playing politics”? Are such traits generally observed in the right-wing Labour machine, or specifically in the right-wing Labour machine in the North East?
Simply as a matter of fact, Ken Loach was not expelled from the Labour Party for anti-Semitism. And he can afford to sue. The Blairites have never otherwise heard of him, of course. They have certainly never seen any of his films. One could never encounter a more aggressively uncultured subculture. They rank with the Thatcherites, and they are as rank as the Thatcherites.
Now that they have come out in support of Jamie, will Andy Burnham and Steve Rotheram be, well, what, exactly? Jamie has not been expelled from the Labour Party. He has not been suspended. He has not been anything apart from kept off a longlist. Yet if the grounds for that were sound, then neither he, nor anyone who supported him, could possibly be permitted to retain membership of any respectable organisation, or even of the Labour Party.
David Lindsay
11 months ago
“Clearly incompatible with our promise to have zero tolerance,” you say? Has Jamie Driscoll been expelled from the Labour Party, then? Have the Labour members of his Cabinet been expelled from the Labour Party? Have the Conservative members of his Cabinet been expelled from the Conservative Party?
How come none of them, nor Simon Clarke, nor Nadhim Zahawi, nor Ben Bradley, has ever noticed that Jamie was a “Trot”, or an anti-Semite, or whatever? Is Kim McGuinness likely to be so “refreshingly non-partisan”, so “professional”, and so noted for “not playing politics”? Are such traits generally observed in the right-wing Labour machine, or specifically in the right-wing Labour machine in the North East?
Simply as a matter of fact, Ken Loach was not expelled from the Labour Party for anti-Semitism. And he can afford to sue. The Blairites have never otherwise heard of him, of course. They have certainly never seen any of his films. One could never encounter a more aggressively uncultured subculture. They rank with the Thatcherites, and they are as rank as the Thatcherites.
Now that they have come out in support of Jamie, will Andy Burnham and Steve Rotheram be, well, what, exactly? Jamie has not been expelled from the Labour Party. He has not been suspended. He has not been anything apart from kept off a longlist. Yet if the grounds for that were sound, then neither he, nor anyone who supported him, could possibly be permitted to retain membership of any respectable organisation, or even of the Labour Party.
No he won’t.
No he won’t.
“British politics might soon reach a point where the Conservative Party is the natural home of intellectual energy, new ideas and dissent,”
Hilarious
It’s faint praise.
Of course it’s alreay happened.
The right is far less creedal than the current ”liberal” left. Hence, you’re not going to get any new ideas from the current left
It’s faint praise.
Of course it’s alreay happened.
The right is far less creedal than the current ”liberal” left. Hence, you’re not going to get any new ideas from the current left
“British politics might soon reach a point where the Conservative Party is the natural home of intellectual energy, new ideas and dissent,”
Hilarious
The Labour Party has been treading water in the Welsh Assembly for over 20 years. Basically, it asks the UK for more money and gives that away to the ‘poor’ (defined as real poor, potential students, increasing numbers of Assembly employees).
Driscoll sounds like a breath of fresh air – stale air in a modern setting. It should appeal to many new voters.
The Labour Party has been treading water in the Welsh Assembly for over 20 years. Basically, it asks the UK for more money and gives that away to the ‘poor’ (defined as real poor, potential students, increasing numbers of Assembly employees).
Driscoll sounds like a breath of fresh air – stale air in a modern setting. It should appeal to many new voters.
Much that is sensible here. But it misses a fairly big point: Labour was last kicked (not ‘out’) by the voters when it ran Corbyn – and refused to take a decision on – or be honest about – or even engage with – the biggest political issue of the day: Brexit. Corbynite Labour was not a shining beacon of openness, honesty, clear talking, or pluralism. There may well be a lot wrong with Starmers approach in general, or the ousting of Jamie Driscoll in particular. But giving more space to the Corbyn wing is not any kind of solution.
Much that is sensible here. But it misses a fairly big point: Labour was last kicked (not ‘out’) by the voters when it ran Corbyn – and refused to take a decision on – or be honest about – or even engage with – the biggest political issue of the day: Brexit. Corbynite Labour was not a shining beacon of openness, honesty, clear talking, or pluralism. There may well be a lot wrong with Starmers approach in general, or the ousting of Jamie Driscoll in particular. But giving more space to the Corbyn wing is not any kind of solution.
…urn of dead assumptions.
Dead? They assume the working class are their core vote while pursuing student trendy progressive nonsense. Remember the Arab Spring? ‘Useful’ students ferried about by taxi drivers. That went well for them eh?
If only Corbyn had beaten May in 2017. There’d have been a general election, probably delayed by Covid, and Labour would have been reduced to the state the Tories are likely going to be in soon.
…urn of dead assumptions.
Dead? They assume the working class are their core vote while pursuing student trendy progressive nonsense. Remember the Arab Spring? ‘Useful’ students ferried about by taxi drivers. That went well for them eh?
If only Corbyn had beaten May in 2017. There’d have been a general election, probably delayed by Covid, and Labour would have been reduced to the state the Tories are likely going to be in soon.
Starmer knows the core of the country is the moderate-centrist and Lab can only win from there. People want competency and bit less ideology right now too. So this won’t do him any harm.
You are a truly uninspiring apologist.
To be fair this is probably to your credit.
‘Boring’ competency rules PR, for now at least.
Is it though? You forget Corbyn ran the Tories very close during the 2017 election, despite the leader himself being fairly unpopular some his policies actually proved to be vote winners. It only fell apart at the subsequent election when he decided to use Starmers blueprint for Brexit which cost him vast numbers of Leave voting seats in Labours strongholds
Not really. Labour did not go with Starmer on Brexit – that would have been a clear remainer stance. Nor did they come out for a soft Brexit, or a hard Brexit, or any other Brexit. They refused to take a stand, said they would negotiate a better deal (how?) and also promote a referendum to overturn it, and just scolded the Tories without saying what they actually intended to do. Their only line was “let us talk about something else, and just get JC in power – whatever he does will be great.” It does not help to have some popular policies – mixed in with a smorgasbord of less popular policies. – if it is totally unclear what your priorities are, what you actually want to do, or whether you can deliver it.
And, anyway, if Labour had gone for hard Brexit – like the Tories – they would have lost vast numbers of votes to the Lib Dems running for remain. A clear choice for a soft Brexit might have carried them through, but that was never possible with a woolly brexiteer like Corbyn in charge.
Not really. Labour did not go with Starmer on Brexit – that would have been a clear remainer stance. Nor did they come out for a soft Brexit, or a hard Brexit, or any other Brexit. They refused to take a stand, said they would negotiate a better deal (how?) and also promote a referendum to overturn it, and just scolded the Tories without saying what they actually intended to do. Their only line was “let us talk about something else, and just get JC in power – whatever he does will be great.” It does not help to have some popular policies – mixed in with a smorgasbord of less popular policies. – if it is totally unclear what your priorities are, what you actually want to do, or whether you can deliver it.
And, anyway, if Labour had gone for hard Brexit – like the Tories – they would have lost vast numbers of votes to the Lib Dems running for remain. A clear choice for a soft Brexit might have carried them through, but that was never possible with a woolly brexiteer like Corbyn in charge.
Is it though? You forget Corbyn ran the Tories very close during the 2017 election, despite the leader himself being fairly unpopular some his policies actually proved to be vote winners. It only fell apart at the subsequent election when he decided to use Starmers blueprint for Brexit which cost him vast numbers of Leave voting seats in Labours strongholds
‘Boring’ competency rules PR, for now at least.
I rarely agree with you but you are right re Starmer approach.
I still hate Starmer though for trying to stop Brexit and then promoting traitor like Corbyn as a suitable candidate for PM.
You are a truly uninspiring apologist.
To be fair this is probably to your credit.
I rarely agree with you but you are right re Starmer approach.
I still hate Starmer though for trying to stop Brexit and then promoting traitor like Corbyn as a suitable candidate for PM.
Starmer knows the core of the country is the moderate-centrist and Lab can only win from there. People want competency and bit less ideology right now too. So this won’t do him any harm.
…urn of dead assumptions.
Dead? They assume the working class are their core vote while pursuing student trendy progressive nonsense. Remember the Arab Spring? ‘Useful’ students ferried about by taxi drivers. That went well for them eh?
If only Corbyn had beaten May in 2017. There’d have been a general election, probably delayed by Covid, and Labour would have been reduced to the state the Tories are likely going to be in soon.
I don’t particularly care for Labour Party but surely any party leadership has a right to choose candidates to their liking.
Reality is that candidates win mostly due to party machine support first, voters herd instinct second and personal quality distant last (10% max).
There are outliers like Johnson but general trend is as described.
If this guy doesn’t like it he can stand as independent and let see how many votes he gets.
“Clearly incompatible with our promise to have zero tolerance,” you say? Has Jamie Driscoll been expelled from the Labour Party, then? Have the Labour members of his Cabinet been expelled from the Labour Party? Have the Conservative members of his Cabinet been expelled from the Conservative Party?
How come none of them, nor Simon Clarke, nor Nadhim Zahawi, nor Ben Bradley, has ever noticed that Jamie was a “Trot”, or an anti-Semite, or whatever? Is Kim McGuinness likely to be so “refreshingly non-partisan”, so “professional”, and so noted for “not playing politics”? Are such traits generally observed in the right-wing Labour machine, or specifically in the right-wing Labour machine in the North East?
Simply as a matter of fact, Ken Loach was not expelled from the Labour Party for anti-Semitism. And he can afford to sue. The Blairites have never otherwise heard of him, of course. They have certainly never seen any of his films. One could never encounter a more aggressively uncultured subculture. They rank with the Thatcherites, and they are as rank as the Thatcherites.
Now that they have come out in support of Jamie, will Andy Burnham and Steve Rotheram be, well, what, exactly? Jamie has not been expelled from the Labour Party. He has not been suspended. He has not been anything apart from kept off a longlist. Yet if the grounds for that were sound, then neither he, nor anyone who supported him, could possibly be permitted to retain membership of any respectable organisation, or even of the Labour Party.
“Clearly incompatible with our promise to have zero tolerance,” you say? Has Jamie Driscoll been expelled from the Labour Party, then? Have the Labour members of his Cabinet been expelled from the Labour Party? Have the Conservative members of his Cabinet been expelled from the Conservative Party?
How come none of them, nor Simon Clarke, nor Nadhim Zahawi, nor Ben Bradley, has ever noticed that Jamie was a “Trot”, or an anti-Semite, or whatever? Is Kim McGuinness likely to be so “refreshingly non-partisan”, so “professional”, and so noted for “not playing politics”? Are such traits generally observed in the right-wing Labour machine, or specifically in the right-wing Labour machine in the North East?
Simply as a matter of fact, Ken Loach was not expelled from the Labour Party for anti-Semitism. And he can afford to sue. The Blairites have never otherwise heard of him, of course. They have certainly never seen any of his films. One could never encounter a more aggressively uncultured subculture. They rank with the Thatcherites, and they are as rank as the Thatcherites.
Now that they have come out in support of Jamie, will Andy Burnham and Steve Rotheram be, well, what, exactly? Jamie has not been expelled from the Labour Party. He has not been suspended. He has not been anything apart from kept off a longlist. Yet if the grounds for that were sound, then neither he, nor anyone who supported him, could possibly be permitted to retain membership of any respectable organisation, or even of the Labour Party.