Scepticism towards NATO goes back a while in France – indeed to De Gaulle – and is not mere ‘populism’. Macron himself declared it ‘brain dead’ not so long ago.
There’s a long history of anti-USA feeling in France, I don’t know why. I can understand anti-British feeling, which can be reciprocated, because of our long history of conflict. (I’m referring to occasional politicians or popular newspapers; I personally have only ever encountered friendliness.)
Can it stem from Roosevelt’s dislike of de Gaulle? They even resigned from NATO in 1966.
Interesting. The French probably resent the fact that they would all speak German today if it were not for the U.S. They did give us a beautiful statue, however!
US led NATO is to France & Europe what UK was to India but many continental Europeans; especially from the North fail to see that! They even call Germany a democracy with American troops on the ground! BUT.. brainwashing of people has limits while Freedom & liberty of all people & nations are the only constants! When the European NATO bubble bursts, it won’t be a pretty site!!
Last edited 2 years ago by Landin Rochard
Prashant Kotak
2 years ago
“…The same goes for Sinn Fein in Ireland, which is staunchly opposed to the republic joining NATO…”
On a tangential issue, considering the virtually unthinking allegiance that the Democratic left in the US offer to Irish republican movements and Sinn Fein in particular, can not this fact of Sinn Fein opposition to NATO be used to undermine support for them in American circles by pointing it out relentlessly?
In WW2 Ireland stayed neutral and wouldn’t lend ports to the allies on their west coast for destroyers. Churchill considered taking the so called *treaty ports* by just occupying them..as they would have been a massive help in combatting U boats by extending range and allowing more flying.
But he decided against as the Irish would probably have started shooting at the Brits because of the 1916..and 1921 etc.
That caused, to coin a phrase excess deaths in the British Merchant marine, and American soldiers etc coming over to base in Britain.
At the end of the war they even sent for the German ambassador to Ireland and offered official state condolences after Hitler had shot himself.
Belsen, Auschwitz and the whole nine yards was out by then…buy never mind; diplomatic niceties and all that.
Many younger Irish don’t know this because it’s become forgotten on purpose and are astonished if it is pointed out.
The only thing more amazing than the fact are the tortuous explanations given for it by those Irish old enough, or better read on history, for it.
I don’t hate the Irish, and have a big recent slice of Irish DNA, but their holier than thou routine can do with some counterbalancing facts to show.
Yes, the way the Irish government cosied up to Germany during WW2 is something that they should be ashamed of, they said that they were neutral, even friendly neutral, but their actions do not speak that. I think that they went by the simple equation: “my enemy’s enemy is my friend” which is not a good idea. It was not just the Taoiseach Éamon but also the Irish president Douglas Hyde who gave his condolences (actually Mr. de Valera went with a delegation to give his condolences in person to Dr.Eduard Hemple the German minister). At least they made the British Union of F*scists happy, as they congratulated de Valera for his act of solidarity. In all this, though, let’s not forget the c80,000 Irish men who did take up arms for the allies against their governments orders.
This 1989 article from th Irish national archives gives a more sympathetic take on de Valera’s government although they still find the condolence incident “undiplomatic”, as did other Irish people at the time; basically don’t antagonise the English as they won (I say English as that is what the Irish thought, the brave Welsh, Ulster and Scottish men and women who fought and died are erased) https://www.nationalarchives.ie/topics/AAE/Article.pdf
Of course, the Scottish nationalists played the same game, something that their modern incarnation try to hide, in fact successfully hide.
Scepticism towards NATO goes back a while in France – indeed to De Gaulle – and is not mere ‘populism’. Macron himself declared it ‘brain dead’ not so long ago.
There’s a long history of anti-USA feeling in France, I don’t know why. I can understand anti-British feeling, which can be reciprocated, because of our long history of conflict. (I’m referring to occasional politicians or popular newspapers; I personally have only ever encountered friendliness.)
Can it stem from Roosevelt’s dislike of de Gaulle? They even resigned from NATO in 1966.
I think it stems from the US saving France in 2 world wars and failing to treat it like a great power.
Interesting. The French probably resent the fact that they would all speak German today if it were not for the U.S. They did give us a beautiful statue, however!
Let them eat freedom fries!
US led NATO is to France & Europe what UK was to India but many continental Europeans; especially from the North fail to see that! They even call Germany a democracy with American troops on the ground! BUT.. brainwashing of people has limits while Freedom & liberty of all people & nations are the only constants! When the European NATO bubble bursts, it won’t be a pretty site!!
“…The same goes for Sinn Fein in Ireland, which is staunchly opposed to the republic joining NATO…”
On a tangential issue, considering the virtually unthinking allegiance that the Democratic left in the US offer to Irish republican movements and Sinn Fein in particular, can not this fact of Sinn Fein opposition to NATO be used to undermine support for them in American circles by pointing it out relentlessly?
Nothing will dent the romaniticism attached to Sinn Fein in the US.
Every Democrat in the US has an Irish Leprechaun in the family history.
In WW2 Ireland stayed neutral and wouldn’t lend ports to the allies on their west coast for destroyers. Churchill considered taking the so called *treaty ports* by just occupying them..as they would have been a massive help in combatting U boats by extending range and allowing more flying.
But he decided against as the Irish would probably have started shooting at the Brits because of the 1916..and 1921 etc.
That caused, to coin a phrase excess deaths in the British Merchant marine, and American soldiers etc coming over to base in Britain.
At the end of the war they even sent for the German ambassador to Ireland and offered official state condolences after Hitler had shot himself.
Belsen, Auschwitz and the whole nine yards was out by then…buy never mind; diplomatic niceties and all that.
Many younger Irish don’t know this because it’s become forgotten on purpose and are astonished if it is pointed out.
The only thing more amazing than the fact are the tortuous explanations given for it by those Irish old enough, or better read on history, for it.
I don’t hate the Irish, and have a big recent slice of Irish DNA, but their holier than thou routine can do with some counterbalancing facts to show.
You missed the help they gave to the German luftwaffe bombing the shipyards too. And I’m from catholic Irish where I learned about these things.
Yes, the way the Irish government cosied up to Germany during WW2 is something that they should be ashamed of, they said that they were neutral, even friendly neutral, but their actions do not speak that. I think that they went by the simple equation: “my enemy’s enemy is my friend” which is not a good idea. It was not just the Taoiseach Éamon but also the Irish president Douglas Hyde who gave his condolences (actually Mr. de Valera went with a delegation to give his condolences in person to Dr.Eduard Hemple the German minister). At least they made the British Union of F*scists happy, as they congratulated de Valera for his act of solidarity. In all this, though, let’s not forget the c80,000 Irish men who did take up arms for the allies against their governments orders.
This 1989 article from th Irish national archives gives a more sympathetic take on de Valera’s government although they still find the condolence incident “undiplomatic”, as did other Irish people at the time; basically don’t antagonise the English as they won (I say English as that is what the Irish thought, the brave Welsh, Ulster and Scottish men and women who fought and died are erased)
https://www.nationalarchives.ie/topics/AAE/Article.pdf
Of course, the Scottish nationalists played the same game, something that their modern incarnation try to hide, in fact successfully hide.
Such logic has never worked in the past.
They freeload on Nato and rely on the UK for air and sea defences..not even a couple of submarines to patrol the Iceland Gap or whatever.
They freeload on everyone, but especially the U.K.
UK is such a big air & sea power ;))??
So Putin really only had to wait a little longer for Europe to destroy itself.