I think Melonis support for the war shows us that she knows what would happen if she wasn’t so full-throated about it, after all, there was a week or two of panicked pearl clutching (about the evil far right elements) in the run up to her winning the election and how Italy need beware such a leader.
Then she came out in support for Ukraine and hey presto – not an issue had been raised about the Brothers of Italy since.
Of course, there’s still Berlusconi blundering into the fray with “Putin Propaganda”, but funny how these “evil, far right elements” are generally accepted now. Almost reminds me of some another country where this might be the case…
From what I can tell about Italian politics, that kind of happens by default – the perpetual gridlock (due to having too many members in the legislative body) actually means that it’s the “institutionalists” (technocrats) that primarily run the show, because nothing can get done via legislation (after any given coalitions honeymoon period at least). Lets remember that the last PM, Draghi, was chosen by the president, not elected and was pretty much the Davos covid poster child. Oddly, he also quit when he was denied additional sweeping powers to “reform” Italy further, despite being prime minister (maybe he earned himself a better job by that point? I confess, I don’t know).
So to answer your question directly – not long (if she isn’t already co-opted as you say), otherwise they’ll sic the media on her.
From what I can tell about Italian politics, that kind of happens by default – the perpetual gridlock (due to having too many members in the legislative body) actually means that it’s the “institutionalists” (technocrats) that primarily run the show, because nothing can get done via legislation (after any given coalitions honeymoon period at least). Lets remember that the last PM, Draghi, was chosen by the president, not elected and was pretty much the Davos covid poster child. Oddly, he also quit when he was denied additional sweeping powers to “reform” Italy further, despite being prime minister (maybe he earned himself a better job by that point? I confess, I don’t know).
So to answer your question directly – not long (if she isn’t already co-opted as you say), otherwise they’ll sic the media on her.
How long before we might ask if Meloni has been co-opted by the Davos crowd? Sorry if that sounds too conspiratorial!
M Lux
1 year ago
I think Melonis support for the war shows us that she knows what would happen if she wasn’t so full-throated about it, after all, there was a week or two of panicked pearl clutching (about the evil far right elements) in the run up to her winning the election and how Italy need beware such a leader.
Then she came out in support for Ukraine and hey presto – not an issue had been raised about the Brothers of Italy since.
Of course, there’s still Berlusconi blundering into the fray with “Putin Propaganda”, but funny how these “evil, far right elements” are generally accepted now. Almost reminds me of some another country where this might be the case…
Chris Wheatley
1 year ago
So where does democracy come into these things?
If politicians do something the people want, then they won’t look good in history. So better to do something the people don’t want. But didn’t the people do the electing in the first place? Hm, what a dilemma!!
And we are surprised when less than 50% vote. Bring on the populists and expel the middle class intellectuals.
Voters elect politicians who are supposed to use their good judgement to decide issue. This is especially true in foreign affairs. It’s not direct democracy, catering to the transitory whims of public opinion.
If the majority of Americans wanted to bomb Moscow, you wouldn’t want Biden heeding those polls.
With a proper modern, written constitution you can insert the necessary safeguards but still explain it all to the people.
Example. Several years ago Quebec voted to secede from Canada. The constitution required a certain percentage of votes from all states for secession to take place. So it failed. But the people, the voters were involved in everything – not just a few quiet conversations which ignored the people completely.
With a proper modern, written constitution you can insert the necessary safeguards but still explain it all to the people.
Example. Several years ago Quebec voted to secede from Canada. The constitution required a certain percentage of votes from all states for secession to take place. So it failed. But the people, the voters were involved in everything – not just a few quiet conversations which ignored the people completely.
Well, the fate of Athenian democracy suggests its a little more complicated than that.
Republics elect people who hopefully have time to gather all the facts from people who study various aspects of govt. Only then should they make a decision.
Voters elect politicians who are supposed to use their good judgement to decide issue. This is especially true in foreign affairs. It’s not direct democracy, catering to the transitory whims of public opinion.
If the majority of Americans wanted to bomb Moscow, you wouldn’t want Biden heeding those polls.
Well, the fate of Athenian democracy suggests its a little more complicated than that.
Republics elect people who hopefully have time to gather all the facts from people who study various aspects of govt. Only then should they make a decision.
Chris Wheatley
1 year ago
So where does democracy come into these things?
If politicians do something the people want, then they won’t look good in history. So better to do something the people don’t want. But didn’t the people do the electing in the first place? Hm, what a dilemma!!
And we are surprised when less than 50% vote. Bring on the populists and expel the middle class intellectuals.
R Wright
1 year ago
Italy has a tendency to absorb potential reformers and outsiders into its bureaucratic morass, so Meloni’s ‘taming’does not surprise me in the least.
R Wright
1 year ago
Italy has a tendency to absorb potential reformers and outsiders into its bureaucratic morass, so Meloni’s ‘taming’does not surprise me in the least.
Dermot O'Sullivan
1 year ago
Isn’t it in the US that the ‘right’ are opposed to support for Ukraine, while in Europe it’s more likely to be the ‘left’? I don’t see any contradiction in her stance.
Dermot O'Sullivan
1 year ago
Isn’t it in the US that the ‘right’ are opposed to support for Ukraine, while in Europe it’s more likely to be the ‘left’? I don’t see any contradiction in her stance.
martin logan
1 year ago
Nice to see someone who understands how staying united during the Cold War eventually led to the collapse of Europe’s greatest enemy.
Nice also to see that she recognize that a similar enemy has come along.
absolutely – nice to see a leader with testicular fortitude (!) who actually may be wiser than her average voter …
martin logan
1 year ago
Nice to see someone who understands how staying united during the Cold War eventually led to the collapse of Europe’s greatest enemy.
Nice also to see that she recognize that a similar enemy has come along.
Thomas Bengtsson
1 year ago
Being Swedish I naturally support Ukraine, the dictator of a country that for 250 years belonged to the Mongolian empire, he actually threatened us and Finland point blank. At the same time I can’t get into my thinking mind how some people or countries wouldn’t support Ukraine, but on the other hand I also can’t understand that some people think men can get pregnant. Cheers
Thomas Bengtsson
1 year ago
Being Swedish I naturally support Ukraine, the dictator of a country that for 250 years belonged to the Mongolian empire, he actually threatened us and Finland point blank. At the same time I can’t get into my thinking mind how some people or countries wouldn’t support Ukraine, but on the other hand I also can’t understand that some people think men can get pregnant. Cheers
I think Melonis support for the war shows us that she knows what would happen if she wasn’t so full-throated about it, after all, there was a week or two of panicked pearl clutching (about the evil far right elements) in the run up to her winning the election and how Italy need beware such a leader.
Then she came out in support for Ukraine and hey presto – not an issue had been raised about the Brothers of Italy since.
Of course, there’s still Berlusconi blundering into the fray with “Putin Propaganda”, but funny how these “evil, far right elements” are generally accepted now. Almost reminds me of some another country where this might be the case…
How long before we might ask if Meloni has been co-opted by the Davos crowd? Sorry if that sounds too conspiratorial!
From what I can tell about Italian politics, that kind of happens by default – the perpetual gridlock (due to having too many members in the legislative body) actually means that it’s the “institutionalists” (technocrats) that primarily run the show, because nothing can get done via legislation (after any given coalitions honeymoon period at least). Lets remember that the last PM, Draghi, was chosen by the president, not elected and was pretty much the Davos covid poster child. Oddly, he also quit when he was denied additional sweeping powers to “reform” Italy further, despite being prime minister (maybe he earned himself a better job by that point? I confess, I don’t know).
So to answer your question directly – not long (if she isn’t already co-opted as you say), otherwise they’ll sic the media on her.
A ridiculous comment with no basis – unless, of course, you are going to share some insights. I shan’t hold my breath.
It’s beyond conspiratorial. Hell will freeze over before that happens.
From what I can tell about Italian politics, that kind of happens by default – the perpetual gridlock (due to having too many members in the legislative body) actually means that it’s the “institutionalists” (technocrats) that primarily run the show, because nothing can get done via legislation (after any given coalitions honeymoon period at least). Lets remember that the last PM, Draghi, was chosen by the president, not elected and was pretty much the Davos covid poster child. Oddly, he also quit when he was denied additional sweeping powers to “reform” Italy further, despite being prime minister (maybe he earned himself a better job by that point? I confess, I don’t know).
So to answer your question directly – not long (if she isn’t already co-opted as you say), otherwise they’ll sic the media on her.
A ridiculous comment with no basis – unless, of course, you are going to share some insights. I shan’t hold my breath.
It’s beyond conspiratorial. Hell will freeze over before that happens.
How long before we might ask if Meloni has been co-opted by the Davos crowd? Sorry if that sounds too conspiratorial!
I think Melonis support for the war shows us that she knows what would happen if she wasn’t so full-throated about it, after all, there was a week or two of panicked pearl clutching (about the evil far right elements) in the run up to her winning the election and how Italy need beware such a leader.
Then she came out in support for Ukraine and hey presto – not an issue had been raised about the Brothers of Italy since.
Of course, there’s still Berlusconi blundering into the fray with “Putin Propaganda”, but funny how these “evil, far right elements” are generally accepted now. Almost reminds me of some another country where this might be the case…
So where does democracy come into these things?
If politicians do something the people want, then they won’t look good in history. So better to do something the people don’t want. But didn’t the people do the electing in the first place? Hm, what a dilemma!!
And we are surprised when less than 50% vote. Bring on the populists and expel the middle class intellectuals.
Voters elect politicians who are supposed to use their good judgement to decide issue. This is especially true in foreign affairs. It’s not direct democracy, catering to the transitory whims of public opinion.
If the majority of Americans wanted to bomb Moscow, you wouldn’t want Biden heeding those polls.
With a proper modern, written constitution you can insert the necessary safeguards but still explain it all to the people.
Example. Several years ago Quebec voted to secede from Canada. The constitution required a certain percentage of votes from all states for secession to take place. So it failed. But the people, the voters were involved in everything – not just a few quiet conversations which ignored the people completely.
So Tony was right all along
With a proper modern, written constitution you can insert the necessary safeguards but still explain it all to the people.
Example. Several years ago Quebec voted to secede from Canada. The constitution required a certain percentage of votes from all states for secession to take place. So it failed. But the people, the voters were involved in everything – not just a few quiet conversations which ignored the people completely.
So Tony was right all along
Well, the fate of Athenian democracy suggests its a little more complicated than that.
Republics elect people who hopefully have time to gather all the facts from people who study various aspects of govt. Only then should they make a decision.
Voters elect politicians who are supposed to use their good judgement to decide issue. This is especially true in foreign affairs. It’s not direct democracy, catering to the transitory whims of public opinion.
If the majority of Americans wanted to bomb Moscow, you wouldn’t want Biden heeding those polls.
Well, the fate of Athenian democracy suggests its a little more complicated than that.
Republics elect people who hopefully have time to gather all the facts from people who study various aspects of govt. Only then should they make a decision.
So where does democracy come into these things?
If politicians do something the people want, then they won’t look good in history. So better to do something the people don’t want. But didn’t the people do the electing in the first place? Hm, what a dilemma!!
And we are surprised when less than 50% vote. Bring on the populists and expel the middle class intellectuals.
Italy has a tendency to absorb potential reformers and outsiders into its bureaucratic morass, so Meloni’s ‘taming’does not surprise me in the least.
Italy has a tendency to absorb potential reformers and outsiders into its bureaucratic morass, so Meloni’s ‘taming’does not surprise me in the least.
Isn’t it in the US that the ‘right’ are opposed to support for Ukraine, while in Europe it’s more likely to be the ‘left’? I don’t see any contradiction in her stance.
Isn’t it in the US that the ‘right’ are opposed to support for Ukraine, while in Europe it’s more likely to be the ‘left’? I don’t see any contradiction in her stance.
Nice to see someone who understands how staying united during the Cold War eventually led to the collapse of Europe’s greatest enemy.
Nice also to see that she recognize that a similar enemy has come along.
absolutely – nice to see a leader with testicular fortitude (!) who actually may be wiser than her average voter …
absolutely – nice to see a leader with testicular fortitude (!) who actually may be wiser than her average voter …
Nice to see someone who understands how staying united during the Cold War eventually led to the collapse of Europe’s greatest enemy.
Nice also to see that she recognize that a similar enemy has come along.
Being Swedish I naturally support Ukraine, the dictator of a country that for 250 years belonged to the Mongolian empire, he actually threatened us and Finland point blank. At the same time I can’t get into my thinking mind how some people or countries wouldn’t support Ukraine, but on the other hand I also can’t understand that some people think men can get pregnant. Cheers
Being Swedish I naturally support Ukraine, the dictator of a country that for 250 years belonged to the Mongolian empire, he actually threatened us and Finland point blank. At the same time I can’t get into my thinking mind how some people or countries wouldn’t support Ukraine, but on the other hand I also can’t understand that some people think men can get pregnant. Cheers