It’s OK to be a nutcase so long as you’re left wing.
R Wright
1 year ago
It’s OK to be a nutcase so long as you’re left wing.
Lesley van Reenen
1 year ago
I watched him being interviewed during a period when he was lucid and he appeared fairly reasonable, intelligent and thoughtful (inasmuch as he is also a provocative creative). Then he went into this manic episode and clearly he needs help. Can’t help being involved with the Kardoshians either.
Lesley van Reenen
1 year ago
I watched him being interviewed during a period when he was lucid and he appeared fairly reasonable, intelligent and thoughtful (inasmuch as he is also a provocative creative). Then he went into this manic episode and clearly he needs help. Can’t help being involved with the Kardoshians either.
Richard Craven
1 year ago
One great shame about all of this is that his vile antisemitic outbursts overshadowed the moral excellence of his “White Lives Matter” activism.
Richard Craven
1 year ago
One great shame about all of this is that his vile antisemitic outbursts overshadowed the moral excellence of his “White Lives Matter” activism.
Ian S
1 year ago
Disclaimer: I’m coming late to this discussion, commenting two days later than the people who have commented already, so maybe subsequent reader comments will render my view out of date. Anyway, here it is: I’m amazed that all the comments so far are (understandably) condemnations of Kanye. But this interview was about something else: it was about Freddie de Boer’s perspicacious insights into mental health more generally, and societal responses to it. His intelligent and articulate analysis – along with the interviewer’s equally intelligent and probing questions – surely warrants at least SOME responses to the subject matter discussed in the interview? De Boer is one of the brightest sub-stackers around: I recommend him to UnHerd readers.
Mr. de Boer, other than apparently suffering from mental health issues, has absolutely no educational or vocational background in mental health care. He’s got opinions…like the idiotic opinion ” And I can tell you from personal experience, there’s a lot of people in mental illness facilities, mental health facilities, who believe in anti-Semitic conspiracy theories, because anti-Semitic conspiracy theories are some of the oldest in the world. They’re some of the most prevalent in the world.” Guess what, the world is HUGE, and most of it isn’t inhabited by, nor has it ever been inhabited by Jews in any amount worth counting. Patients in the psych wards of sub-Sahara Africa, ALL of Asia, and most of Central & South America wouldn’t know the history or the meaning of a Jewish trope if a list containing a myriad of them was read out loud in their own languages.
I can tell you from experience, being one of 2 million+ New York-metropolitan Jews, that with a name like de Boer, Freddie is far away from identifying as a Jewish person, and can’t possible understand why the hackles of American Jews are raised every time Kanye West says something like, ” I love Nazis and Hitler ” to his adoring public…no matter what mental state he’s in at that moment in time.
Yes, yes, of course: hence my word ‘understandably’. My larger point is a simple one: anger and bile arise easily in discussions about anti-semitism. My own preference is for a more nuanced debate of the issues. See for example Glenn Loury’s discussion just received.
Yes, yes, of course: hence my word ‘understandably’. My larger point is a simple one: anger and bile arise easily in discussions about anti-semitism. My own preference is for a more nuanced debate of the issues. See for example Glenn Loury’s discussion just received.
Mr. de Boer, other than apparently suffering from mental health issues, has absolutely no educational or vocational background in mental health care. He’s got opinions…like the idiotic opinion ” And I can tell you from personal experience, there’s a lot of people in mental illness facilities, mental health facilities, who believe in anti-Semitic conspiracy theories, because anti-Semitic conspiracy theories are some of the oldest in the world. They’re some of the most prevalent in the world.” Guess what, the world is HUGE, and most of it isn’t inhabited by, nor has it ever been inhabited by Jews in any amount worth counting. Patients in the psych wards of sub-Sahara Africa, ALL of Asia, and most of Central & South America wouldn’t know the history or the meaning of a Jewish trope if a list containing a myriad of them was read out loud in their own languages.
I can tell you from experience, being one of 2 million+ New York-metropolitan Jews, that with a name like de Boer, Freddie is far away from identifying as a Jewish person, and can’t possible understand why the hackles of American Jews are raised every time Kanye West says something like, ” I love Nazis and Hitler ” to his adoring public…no matter what mental state he’s in at that moment in time.
Last edited 1 year ago by Abe Stamm
Ian S
1 year ago
Disclaimer: I’m coming late to this discussion, commenting two days later than the people who have commented already, so maybe subsequent reader comments will render my view out of date. Anyway, here it is: I’m amazed that all the comments so far are (understandably) condemnations of Kanye. But this interview was about something else: it was about Freddie de Boer’s perspicacious insights into mental health more generally, and societal responses to it. His intelligent and articulate analysis – along with the interviewer’s equally intelligent and probing questions – surely warrants at least SOME responses to the subject matter discussed in the interview? De Boer is one of the brightest sub-stackers around: I recommend him to UnHerd readers.
Last edited 1 year ago by Ian S
Dominic A
1 year ago
I could forgive him for transgressions due to mental illness. I will not forgive him for building a career, or rather a music business, off the backs of actually talented people, and passing it off as his own, and then believing that lie.
I agree, his talent is very limited. The attention paid is a reflection on the media rather any cultural value he’s capable of adding. I don’t doubt he’s suffering as a result, but it should serve as an object lesson to all those wannabes who seek fame at any cost.
I agree, his talent is very limited. The attention paid is a reflection on the media rather any cultural value he’s capable of adding. I don’t doubt he’s suffering as a result, but it should serve as an object lesson to all those wannabes who seek fame at any cost.
Last edited 1 year ago by Steve Murray
Dominic A
1 year ago
I could forgive him for transgressions due to mental illness. I will not forgive him for building a career, or rather a music business, off the backs of actually talented people, and passing it off as his own, and then believing that lie.
D Walsh
1 year ago
I don’t have a problem with Kanye West
The people trying to destroy him are far worse
D Walsh
1 year ago
I don’t have a problem with Kanye West
The people trying to destroy him are far worse
Abe Stamm
1 year ago
Kayne West has been spewing vile antisemitic tropes to his social media acolytes for far longer than the longest bipolar episode would last. A person can be BOTH mentally ill and a rabid hater of Jews…which is the reality of Kayne’s case in my humble opinion.
In the New York-metropolitan area, which has the largest population of Jews outside of Israel (over 2 million), antisemitic hate crimes are reaching elevated levels that are unprecedented, the data being compiled in real time by law enforcement officials and agencies like the Anti-Defamation League. Kanye is adding fuel to the fire, and should be held accountable for his high profile rants…especially if his hate speech spurs somebody to commit a hate crime against a Jew or Jews.
Could you list the tropes that Kanye West has been spewing, I’d like to fact check them myself
Abe Stamm
1 year ago
Kayne West has been spewing vile antisemitic tropes to his social media acolytes for far longer than the longest bipolar episode would last. A person can be BOTH mentally ill and a rabid hater of Jews…which is the reality of Kayne’s case in my humble opinion.
In the New York-metropolitan area, which has the largest population of Jews outside of Israel (over 2 million), antisemitic hate crimes are reaching elevated levels that are unprecedented, the data being compiled in real time by law enforcement officials and agencies like the Anti-Defamation League. Kanye is adding fuel to the fire, and should be held accountable for his high profile rants…especially if his hate speech spurs somebody to commit a hate crime against a Jew or Jews.
Last edited 1 year ago by Abe Stamm
John Riordan
1 year ago
“…I think that we have completely destroyed the idea of a nuanced moral perspective…”
In the febrile world of online debate sure, but the reality is that nobody in the real world actually believes that. The ability to build and target online hate mobs is a convenient weapon for digitally influential people, certainly, and it can carry severe real-world consequences for those unlucky enough to be shamed online, but it almost never describes how the majority of people really feel. It is powerful, but it is not accurate.
I do not think the power to destroy people this way can possibly last. At some point, a target of these hate mobs will successfully mount a legal claim against the perpetratotors or the law will simply change via statute to destroy the present asymmetry in which hate mobs can act with almost no efffort and at zero risk to themselves, but their targets can lose careers, reputations and livelihoods. It can’t last, and won’t.
John Riordan
1 year ago
“…I think that we have completely destroyed the idea of a nuanced moral perspective…”
In the febrile world of online debate sure, but the reality is that nobody in the real world actually believes that. The ability to build and target online hate mobs is a convenient weapon for digitally influential people, certainly, and it can carry severe real-world consequences for those unlucky enough to be shamed online, but it almost never describes how the majority of people really feel. It is powerful, but it is not accurate.
I do not think the power to destroy people this way can possibly last. At some point, a target of these hate mobs will successfully mount a legal claim against the perpetratotors or the law will simply change via statute to destroy the present asymmetry in which hate mobs can act with almost no efffort and at zero risk to themselves, but their targets can lose careers, reputations and livelihoods. It can’t last, and won’t.
Gerald Arcuri
1 year ago
Kanye is a fraud. Always has been, always will be. Claiming mental illness is no defense. He’s a clown, starring in his own circus.
Gerald Arcuri
1 year ago
Kanye is a fraud. Always has been, always will be. Claiming mental illness is no defense. He’s a clown, starring in his own circus.
It’s OK to be a nutcase so long as you’re left wing.
It’s OK to be a nutcase so long as you’re left wing.
I watched him being interviewed during a period when he was lucid and he appeared fairly reasonable, intelligent and thoughtful (inasmuch as he is also a provocative creative). Then he went into this manic episode and clearly he needs help. Can’t help being involved with the Kardoshians either.
I watched him being interviewed during a period when he was lucid and he appeared fairly reasonable, intelligent and thoughtful (inasmuch as he is also a provocative creative). Then he went into this manic episode and clearly he needs help. Can’t help being involved with the Kardoshians either.
One great shame about all of this is that his vile antisemitic outbursts overshadowed the moral excellence of his “White Lives Matter” activism.
One great shame about all of this is that his vile antisemitic outbursts overshadowed the moral excellence of his “White Lives Matter” activism.
Disclaimer: I’m coming late to this discussion, commenting two days later than the people who have commented already, so maybe subsequent reader comments will render my view out of date. Anyway, here it is: I’m amazed that all the comments so far are (understandably) condemnations of Kanye. But this interview was about something else: it was about Freddie de Boer’s perspicacious insights into mental health more generally, and societal responses to it. His intelligent and articulate analysis – along with the interviewer’s equally intelligent and probing questions – surely warrants at least SOME responses to the subject matter discussed in the interview? De Boer is one of the brightest sub-stackers around: I recommend him to UnHerd readers.
Mr. de Boer, other than apparently suffering from mental health issues, has absolutely no educational or vocational background in mental health care. He’s got opinions…like the idiotic opinion ” And I can tell you from personal experience, there’s a lot of people in mental illness facilities, mental health facilities, who believe in anti-Semitic conspiracy theories, because anti-Semitic conspiracy theories are some of the oldest in the world. They’re some of the most prevalent in the world.” Guess what, the world is HUGE, and most of it isn’t inhabited by, nor has it ever been inhabited by Jews in any amount worth counting. Patients in the psych wards of sub-Sahara Africa, ALL of Asia, and most of Central & South America wouldn’t know the history or the meaning of a Jewish trope if a list containing a myriad of them was read out loud in their own languages.
I can tell you from experience, being one of 2 million+ New York-metropolitan Jews, that with a name like de Boer, Freddie is far away from identifying as a Jewish person, and can’t possible understand why the hackles of American Jews are raised every time Kanye West says something like, ” I love Nazis and Hitler ” to his adoring public…no matter what mental state he’s in at that moment in time.
Yes, yes, of course: hence my word ‘understandably’. My larger point is a simple one: anger and bile arise easily in discussions about anti-semitism. My own preference is for a more nuanced debate of the issues. See for example Glenn Loury’s discussion just received.
Yes, yes, of course: hence my word ‘understandably’. My larger point is a simple one: anger and bile arise easily in discussions about anti-semitism. My own preference is for a more nuanced debate of the issues. See for example Glenn Loury’s discussion just received.
Mr. de Boer, other than apparently suffering from mental health issues, has absolutely no educational or vocational background in mental health care. He’s got opinions…like the idiotic opinion ” And I can tell you from personal experience, there’s a lot of people in mental illness facilities, mental health facilities, who believe in anti-Semitic conspiracy theories, because anti-Semitic conspiracy theories are some of the oldest in the world. They’re some of the most prevalent in the world.” Guess what, the world is HUGE, and most of it isn’t inhabited by, nor has it ever been inhabited by Jews in any amount worth counting. Patients in the psych wards of sub-Sahara Africa, ALL of Asia, and most of Central & South America wouldn’t know the history or the meaning of a Jewish trope if a list containing a myriad of them was read out loud in their own languages.
I can tell you from experience, being one of 2 million+ New York-metropolitan Jews, that with a name like de Boer, Freddie is far away from identifying as a Jewish person, and can’t possible understand why the hackles of American Jews are raised every time Kanye West says something like, ” I love Nazis and Hitler ” to his adoring public…no matter what mental state he’s in at that moment in time.
Disclaimer: I’m coming late to this discussion, commenting two days later than the people who have commented already, so maybe subsequent reader comments will render my view out of date. Anyway, here it is: I’m amazed that all the comments so far are (understandably) condemnations of Kanye. But this interview was about something else: it was about Freddie de Boer’s perspicacious insights into mental health more generally, and societal responses to it. His intelligent and articulate analysis – along with the interviewer’s equally intelligent and probing questions – surely warrants at least SOME responses to the subject matter discussed in the interview? De Boer is one of the brightest sub-stackers around: I recommend him to UnHerd readers.
I could forgive him for transgressions due to mental illness. I will not forgive him for building a career, or rather a music business, off the backs of actually talented people, and passing it off as his own, and then believing that lie.
I agree, his talent is very limited. The attention paid is a reflection on the media rather any cultural value he’s capable of adding. I don’t doubt he’s suffering as a result, but it should serve as an object lesson to all those wannabes who seek fame at any cost.
I agree, his talent is very limited. The attention paid is a reflection on the media rather any cultural value he’s capable of adding. I don’t doubt he’s suffering as a result, but it should serve as an object lesson to all those wannabes who seek fame at any cost.
I could forgive him for transgressions due to mental illness. I will not forgive him for building a career, or rather a music business, off the backs of actually talented people, and passing it off as his own, and then believing that lie.
I don’t have a problem with Kanye West
The people trying to destroy him are far worse
I don’t have a problem with Kanye West
The people trying to destroy him are far worse
Kayne West has been spewing vile antisemitic tropes to his social media acolytes for far longer than the longest bipolar episode would last. A person can be BOTH mentally ill and a rabid hater of Jews…which is the reality of Kayne’s case in my humble opinion.
In the New York-metropolitan area, which has the largest population of Jews outside of Israel (over 2 million), antisemitic hate crimes are reaching elevated levels that are unprecedented, the data being compiled in real time by law enforcement officials and agencies like the Anti-Defamation League. Kanye is adding fuel to the fire, and should be held accountable for his high profile rants…especially if his hate speech spurs somebody to commit a hate crime against a Jew or Jews.
I tend to agree. His bipolar would explain why he feels comfortable expressing these vile views, but not explain him having them.
Could you list the tropes that Kanye West has been spewing, I’d like to fact check them myself
The American Jewish Committee provides 5 examples of Kanye’s antisemitic rhetoric (though there are many more), and explains why they tap into age old tropes against the Jewish people:
https://www.ajc.org/news/5-of-kanye-wests-antisemitic-remarks-explained
The ADL has also done a good job explaining and verifying Mr. West’s antisemitic remarks, with a timeline:
https://www.adl.org/resources/blog/unpacking-kanye-wests-antisemitic-remarks
The American Jewish Committee provides 5 examples of Kanye’s antisemitic rhetoric (though there are many more), and explains why they tap into age old tropes against the Jewish people:
https://www.ajc.org/news/5-of-kanye-wests-antisemitic-remarks-explained
The ADL has also done a good job explaining and verifying Mr. West’s antisemitic remarks, with a timeline:
https://www.adl.org/resources/blog/unpacking-kanye-wests-antisemitic-remarks
I tend to agree. His bipolar would explain why he feels comfortable expressing these vile views, but not explain him having them.
Could you list the tropes that Kanye West has been spewing, I’d like to fact check them myself
Kayne West has been spewing vile antisemitic tropes to his social media acolytes for far longer than the longest bipolar episode would last. A person can be BOTH mentally ill and a rabid hater of Jews…which is the reality of Kayne’s case in my humble opinion.
In the New York-metropolitan area, which has the largest population of Jews outside of Israel (over 2 million), antisemitic hate crimes are reaching elevated levels that are unprecedented, the data being compiled in real time by law enforcement officials and agencies like the Anti-Defamation League. Kanye is adding fuel to the fire, and should be held accountable for his high profile rants…especially if his hate speech spurs somebody to commit a hate crime against a Jew or Jews.
“…I think that we have completely destroyed the idea of a nuanced moral perspective…”
In the febrile world of online debate sure, but the reality is that nobody in the real world actually believes that. The ability to build and target online hate mobs is a convenient weapon for digitally influential people, certainly, and it can carry severe real-world consequences for those unlucky enough to be shamed online, but it almost never describes how the majority of people really feel. It is powerful, but it is not accurate.
I do not think the power to destroy people this way can possibly last. At some point, a target of these hate mobs will successfully mount a legal claim against the perpetratotors or the law will simply change via statute to destroy the present asymmetry in which hate mobs can act with almost no efffort and at zero risk to themselves, but their targets can lose careers, reputations and livelihoods. It can’t last, and won’t.
“…I think that we have completely destroyed the idea of a nuanced moral perspective…”
In the febrile world of online debate sure, but the reality is that nobody in the real world actually believes that. The ability to build and target online hate mobs is a convenient weapon for digitally influential people, certainly, and it can carry severe real-world consequences for those unlucky enough to be shamed online, but it almost never describes how the majority of people really feel. It is powerful, but it is not accurate.
I do not think the power to destroy people this way can possibly last. At some point, a target of these hate mobs will successfully mount a legal claim against the perpetratotors or the law will simply change via statute to destroy the present asymmetry in which hate mobs can act with almost no efffort and at zero risk to themselves, but their targets can lose careers, reputations and livelihoods. It can’t last, and won’t.
Kanye is a fraud. Always has been, always will be. Claiming mental illness is no defense. He’s a clown, starring in his own circus.
Kanye is a fraud. Always has been, always will be. Claiming mental illness is no defense. He’s a clown, starring in his own circus.