I thought it was a great film. My only qualm in terms of race was the clumsy inclusion of black women sitting in a 1930s physics seminar and various black men in the background of gatherings that would have been entirely white. I can only assume that these people are inserted to meet the race quotas that are demanded to allow the film to be included in the Oscar nominations. It didn’t detract too much, just a little bit distracting – don’t let it put you off seeing the film.
I do wonder what the consequences of all this rewriting of history will be. There are feminist historians, Marxist historians, no doubt anti-racist historians. Their premise (justification for bias) is that history was traditionally written to favour the powerful so, rather than try and separate fact from fiction, they feel free to write whatever they like without going through the onerous task of trying to genuinely understand the past through indepth research, no need to learn ancient languages. The greats are dismissed as pale, stale and male. It solves the problem of what to do with the glut of students without the required skills – create an army of the indoctrinated to spread the indoctrination: Those who both claim there is no such thing as truth whilst claiming everything they say is true without any sense of hypocrisy. Those who join just stop oil without cutting down on foreign holidays or swapping the oil guzzling 4×4 for a more energy efficient model.
The consequences are the main goal.
‘In Gramsci’s own words, he viewed the task thus: “Socialism is precisely the religion that must overwhelm Christianity. … In the new order, Socialism will triumph by first capturing the culture via infiltration of schools, universities, churches, and the media by transforming the consciousness of society.”’
What exactly is wrong with pointing out that Christianity, or indeed any religion, is a belief based on, well, nothing; other than a desire to explain the world in the absence of scientific knowledge or to organise society as the oligarchy in charge at its inception wished?
Be careful how you judge things. Scientific knowledge doesn’t explain the world either. It merely proposes ideas about it that will possibly be replaced by others. Science doesn’t stop investigating. Often there are practical applications of scientific knowledge, but these are not proof of everlasting truth. Science also has no need for ethics, since they might get in the way of its pursuits. Christianity concerns itself with human interactions, as do all religions, and thus offers a different approach to the meaning of things–it’s not perfect, but has much to offer in everyday life.
The thing to consider is of it were all bs and the disciples knew it would they have had the fortitude to die gruesome deaths based on nothing? They knew and lived with him, if he actually hadn’t done anything why would they travel the world separately and be willing to be brutally killed? Delusions don’t last long when you are alone and risking torture,
Be careful how you judge things. Scientific knowledge doesn’t explain the world either. It merely proposes ideas about it that will possibly be replaced by others. Science doesn’t stop investigating. Often there are practical applications of scientific knowledge, but these are not proof of everlasting truth. Science also has no need for ethics, since they might get in the way of its pursuits. Christianity concerns itself with human interactions, as do all religions, and thus offers a different approach to the meaning of things–it’s not perfect, but has much to offer in everyday life.
The thing to consider is of it were all bs and the disciples knew it would they have had the fortitude to die gruesome deaths based on nothing? They knew and lived with him, if he actually hadn’t done anything why would they travel the world separately and be willing to be brutally killed? Delusions don’t last long when you are alone and risking torture,
What exactly is wrong with pointing out that Christianity, or indeed any religion, is a belief based on, well, nothing; other than a desire to explain the world in the absence of scientific knowledge or to organise society as the oligarchy in charge at its inception wished?
There are, of course, also right-wing historians! So there are historians of every political hue and bias, as there are people in society; feel free to highlight hypocrisy or malfeasance wherever you find it, but please don’t pretend it only emerges from one end of the political spectrum as you see it.
The consequences are the main goal.
‘In Gramsci’s own words, he viewed the task thus: “Socialism is precisely the religion that must overwhelm Christianity. … In the new order, Socialism will triumph by first capturing the culture via infiltration of schools, universities, churches, and the media by transforming the consciousness of society.”’
There are, of course, also right-wing historians! So there are historians of every political hue and bias, as there are people in society; feel free to highlight hypocrisy or malfeasance wherever you find it, but please don’t pretend it only emerges from one end of the political spectrum as you see it.
That’s a qualm? Well to ease your qualm, try reading up a bit.
Even if one was completely oblivious to African American contributions to the Manhattan Project, a simple Wiki search would show that.. no.. a 1930s physics seminar would not have been exclusively attended by whites. Almost 30 of the scientists and technicians on the project were black.
I highly doubt the project hired every single black scientist or technician in the country, therefore reasonable to assume there were even more blacks that would have been attending seminars in their field of study.
Maybe Mr. Nolan included them in the scenes to reflect the actuality of the times?
Thanks for this. I think a lot of us simply assume that America at that time was so racist that there couldn’t possibly have been black physicists. And certainly not successful ones.
In this, as with feminism, we are caught between two competing narratives springing from the same ideology. America was so racist then that African Americans were excluded from success v America is so racist now that it has written successful African Americans out of history.
Many of us are understandably confused. Obviously the truth is more nuanced.
Clever of you to lump scientists and technicians together.
Luis Alvarez was a very important physicist on the project. A generation later, He and his son discovered that a meteor ended the Cretaceous— the Alvarezes are worthy of a film.
If that is true Steve, I apologise and stand corrected. I am amazed that I have not heard more about these black female physics PHDs at Harvard and CalTech in the 1930s. I would have thought there would have been considerable interest in them. I cannot find any reference to them, do you have their names?
Thanks for this. I think a lot of us simply assume that America at that time was so racist that there couldn’t possibly have been black physicists. And certainly not successful ones.
In this, as with feminism, we are caught between two competing narratives springing from the same ideology. America was so racist then that African Americans were excluded from success v America is so racist now that it has written successful African Americans out of history.
Many of us are understandably confused. Obviously the truth is more nuanced.
Clever of you to lump scientists and technicians together.
Luis Alvarez was a very important physicist on the project. A generation later, He and his son discovered that a meteor ended the Cretaceous— the Alvarezes are worthy of a film.
If that is true Steve, I apologise and stand corrected. I am amazed that I have not heard more about these black female physics PHDs at Harvard and CalTech in the 1930s. I would have thought there would have been considerable interest in them. I cannot find any reference to them, do you have their names?
I do wonder what the consequences of all this rewriting of history will be. There are feminist historians, Marxist historians, no doubt anti-racist historians. Their premise (justification for bias) is that history was traditionally written to favour the powerful so, rather than try and separate fact from fiction, they feel free to write whatever they like without going through the onerous task of trying to genuinely understand the past through indepth research, no need to learn ancient languages. The greats are dismissed as pale, stale and male. It solves the problem of what to do with the glut of students without the required skills – create an army of the indoctrinated to spread the indoctrination: Those who both claim there is no such thing as truth whilst claiming everything they say is true without any sense of hypocrisy. Those who join just stop oil without cutting down on foreign holidays or swapping the oil guzzling 4×4 for a more energy efficient model.
That’s a qualm? Well to ease your qualm, try reading up a bit.
Even if one was completely oblivious to African American contributions to the Manhattan Project, a simple Wiki search would show that.. no.. a 1930s physics seminar would not have been exclusively attended by whites. Almost 30 of the scientists and technicians on the project were black.
I highly doubt the project hired every single black scientist or technician in the country, therefore reasonable to assume there were even more blacks that would have been attending seminars in their field of study.
Maybe Mr. Nolan included them in the scenes to reflect the actuality of the times?
Matt M
9 months ago
I thought it was a great film. My only qualm in terms of race was the clumsy inclusion of black women sitting in a 1930s physics seminar and various black men in the background of gatherings that would have been entirely white. I can only assume that these people are inserted to meet the race quotas that are demanded to allow the film to be included in the Oscar nominations. It didn’t detract too much, just a little bit distracting – don’t let it put you off seeing the film.
Right-Wing Hippie
9 months ago
You would think–you would think–that if there was one historical event modern leftwing race agitators would not want their peoples to be associated with, it would be the invention and subsequent use of the atomic bomb. But that would be to underestimate the will to power (or, at least, to amoral prestige) which drives the modern race industry.
As rightwing hippie do you listen to the Perfume Nationalist?
Right-Wing Hippie
9 months ago
You would think–you would think–that if there was one historical event modern leftwing race agitators would not want their peoples to be associated with, it would be the invention and subsequent use of the atomic bomb. But that would be to underestimate the will to power (or, at least, to amoral prestige) which drives the modern race industry.
Andrew Dalton
9 months ago
Haven’t the Japanese been reclassified as white as a consequence of being too successful?
It’s a solution I’m sure modern physicists approve: too much gravitational attraction and not enough observable mass in the universe? Invent dark matter. Privilege appears to be made out of the same stuff.
Andrew Dalton
9 months ago
Haven’t the Japanese been reclassified as white as a consequence of being too successful?
It’s a solution I’m sure modern physicists approve: too much gravitational attraction and not enough observable mass in the universe? Invent dark matter. Privilege appears to be made out of the same stuff.
Andrzej Wasniewski
9 months ago
How can anyone doubt that von Neumann, Teller, Ulam. Oppenheimer etc..were all transgendered black men?
The jury about Albert Einstein is still out.
Andrzej Wasniewski
9 months ago
How can anyone doubt that von Neumann, Teller, Ulam. Oppenheimer etc..were all transgendered black men?
The jury about Albert Einstein is still out.
Paul Hendricks
9 months ago
And here I was wondering why the film depicts so many black people and women freely milling about the elite military and academic settings in 1930’s and 40’s America. . .
And here I was wondering why the film depicts so many black people and women freely milling about the elite military and academic settings in 1930’s and 40’s America. . .
Peter Johnson
9 months ago
I think the economics of movie making will likely stop too much wokism in the industry. There are lots of spaces in movies for non white and non traditional actors – but recent attempts to overdo it – either by inappropriate casting or preachy woke plots – have failed to make money. For example – they gay rom com ‘Bros’ failed for reasons that would be obvious to anyone who understands why we go to see movies in the first place.
Peter Johnson
9 months ago
I think the economics of movie making will likely stop too much wokism in the industry. There are lots of spaces in movies for non white and non traditional actors – but recent attempts to overdo it – either by inappropriate casting or preachy woke plots – have failed to make money. For example – they gay rom com ‘Bros’ failed for reasons that would be obvious to anyone who understands why we go to see movies in the first place.
Albert McGloan
9 months ago
It would be fascinating to observe this sort of ethnic narcissism in another group of people. The Germans, perhaps. Oh, wait …
It would be fascinating to observe this sort of ethnic narcissism in another group of people. The Germans, perhaps. Oh, wait …
RM Parker
9 months ago
“…the greatest discourse of all, now quite retro: “the Bomb”.” – retro? We had better all hope so… though in the long run I cannot claim to be optimistic.
RM Parker
9 months ago
“…the greatest discourse of all, now quite retro: “the Bomb”.” – retro? We had better all hope so… though in the long run I cannot claim to be optimistic.
Anna Bramwell
9 months ago
I didnt realise there was a question whether Jews are white. Outside loony tunes who think the Middle East was populated by black people, and that Europeans only ever appeared in Europe.
Last edited 9 months ago by Anna Bramwell
Anna Bramwell
9 months ago
I didnt realise there was a question whether Jews are white. Outside loony tunes who think the Middle East was populated by black people, and that Europeans only ever appeared in Europe.
I thought it was a great film. My only qualm in terms of race was the clumsy inclusion of black women sitting in a 1930s physics seminar and various black men in the background of gatherings that would have been entirely white. I can only assume that these people are inserted to meet the race quotas that are demanded to allow the film to be included in the Oscar nominations. It didn’t detract too much, just a little bit distracting – don’t let it put you off seeing the film.
I do wonder what the consequences of all this rewriting of history will be. There are feminist historians, Marxist historians, no doubt anti-racist historians. Their premise (justification for bias) is that history was traditionally written to favour the powerful so, rather than try and separate fact from fiction, they feel free to write whatever they like without going through the onerous task of trying to genuinely understand the past through indepth research, no need to learn ancient languages. The greats are dismissed as pale, stale and male. It solves the problem of what to do with the glut of students without the required skills – create an army of the indoctrinated to spread the indoctrination: Those who both claim there is no such thing as truth whilst claiming everything they say is true without any sense of hypocrisy. Those who join just stop oil without cutting down on foreign holidays or swapping the oil guzzling 4×4 for a more energy efficient model.
The consequences are the main goal.
‘In Gramsci’s own words, he viewed the task thus: “Socialism is precisely the religion that must overwhelm Christianity. … In the new order, Socialism will triumph by first capturing the culture via infiltration of schools, universities, churches, and the media by transforming the consciousness of society.”’
What exactly is wrong with pointing out that Christianity, or indeed any religion, is a belief based on, well, nothing; other than a desire to explain the world in the absence of scientific knowledge or to organise society as the oligarchy in charge at its inception wished?
Be careful how you judge things. Scientific knowledge doesn’t explain the world either. It merely proposes ideas about it that will possibly be replaced by others. Science doesn’t stop investigating. Often there are practical applications of scientific knowledge, but these are not proof of everlasting truth. Science also has no need for ethics, since they might get in the way of its pursuits. Christianity concerns itself with human interactions, as do all religions, and thus offers a different approach to the meaning of things–it’s not perfect, but has much to offer in everyday life.
The thing to consider is of it were all bs and the disciples knew it would they have had the fortitude to die gruesome deaths based on nothing? They knew and lived with him, if he actually hadn’t done anything why would they travel the world separately and be willing to be brutally killed? Delusions don’t last long when you are alone and risking torture,
Be careful how you judge things. Scientific knowledge doesn’t explain the world either. It merely proposes ideas about it that will possibly be replaced by others. Science doesn’t stop investigating. Often there are practical applications of scientific knowledge, but these are not proof of everlasting truth. Science also has no need for ethics, since they might get in the way of its pursuits. Christianity concerns itself with human interactions, as do all religions, and thus offers a different approach to the meaning of things–it’s not perfect, but has much to offer in everyday life.
The thing to consider is of it were all bs and the disciples knew it would they have had the fortitude to die gruesome deaths based on nothing? They knew and lived with him, if he actually hadn’t done anything why would they travel the world separately and be willing to be brutally killed? Delusions don’t last long when you are alone and risking torture,
What exactly is wrong with pointing out that Christianity, or indeed any religion, is a belief based on, well, nothing; other than a desire to explain the world in the absence of scientific knowledge or to organise society as the oligarchy in charge at its inception wished?
There are, of course, also right-wing historians! So there are historians of every political hue and bias, as there are people in society; feel free to highlight hypocrisy or malfeasance wherever you find it, but please don’t pretend it only emerges from one end of the political spectrum as you see it.
True, but don’t pretend that one side isn’t ignored if not suppressed, while the other side is amplified to dominate the cultural discourse
True, but don’t pretend that one side isn’t ignored if not suppressed, while the other side is amplified to dominate the cultural discourse
The consequences are the main goal.
‘In Gramsci’s own words, he viewed the task thus: “Socialism is precisely the religion that must overwhelm Christianity. … In the new order, Socialism will triumph by first capturing the culture via infiltration of schools, universities, churches, and the media by transforming the consciousness of society.”’
There are, of course, also right-wing historians! So there are historians of every political hue and bias, as there are people in society; feel free to highlight hypocrisy or malfeasance wherever you find it, but please don’t pretend it only emerges from one end of the political spectrum as you see it.
That’s a qualm? Well to ease your qualm, try reading up a bit.
Even if one was completely oblivious to African American contributions to the Manhattan Project, a simple Wiki search would show that.. no.. a 1930s physics seminar would not have been exclusively attended by whites. Almost 30 of the scientists and technicians on the project were black.
I highly doubt the project hired every single black scientist or technician in the country, therefore reasonable to assume there were even more blacks that would have been attending seminars in their field of study.
Maybe Mr. Nolan included them in the scenes to reflect the actuality of the times?
Thanks for this. I think a lot of us simply assume that America at that time was so racist that there couldn’t possibly have been black physicists. And certainly not successful ones.
In this, as with feminism, we are caught between two competing narratives springing from the same ideology. America was so racist then that African Americans were excluded from success v America is so racist now that it has written successful African Americans out of history.
Many of us are understandably confused. Obviously the truth is more nuanced.
You believe what you see on Wiki?
Clever of you to lump scientists and technicians together.
Luis Alvarez was a very important physicist on the project. A generation later, He and his son discovered that a meteor ended the Cretaceous— the Alvarezes are worthy of a film.
If that is true Steve, I apologise and stand corrected. I am amazed that I have not heard more about these black female physics PHDs at Harvard and CalTech in the 1930s. I would have thought there would have been considerable interest in them. I cannot find any reference to them, do you have their names?
Thanks for this. I think a lot of us simply assume that America at that time was so racist that there couldn’t possibly have been black physicists. And certainly not successful ones.
In this, as with feminism, we are caught between two competing narratives springing from the same ideology. America was so racist then that African Americans were excluded from success v America is so racist now that it has written successful African Americans out of history.
Many of us are understandably confused. Obviously the truth is more nuanced.
You believe what you see on Wiki?
Clever of you to lump scientists and technicians together.
Luis Alvarez was a very important physicist on the project. A generation later, He and his son discovered that a meteor ended the Cretaceous— the Alvarezes are worthy of a film.
If that is true Steve, I apologise and stand corrected. I am amazed that I have not heard more about these black female physics PHDs at Harvard and CalTech in the 1930s. I would have thought there would have been considerable interest in them. I cannot find any reference to them, do you have their names?
I do wonder what the consequences of all this rewriting of history will be. There are feminist historians, Marxist historians, no doubt anti-racist historians. Their premise (justification for bias) is that history was traditionally written to favour the powerful so, rather than try and separate fact from fiction, they feel free to write whatever they like without going through the onerous task of trying to genuinely understand the past through indepth research, no need to learn ancient languages. The greats are dismissed as pale, stale and male. It solves the problem of what to do with the glut of students without the required skills – create an army of the indoctrinated to spread the indoctrination: Those who both claim there is no such thing as truth whilst claiming everything they say is true without any sense of hypocrisy. Those who join just stop oil without cutting down on foreign holidays or swapping the oil guzzling 4×4 for a more energy efficient model.
That’s a qualm? Well to ease your qualm, try reading up a bit.
Even if one was completely oblivious to African American contributions to the Manhattan Project, a simple Wiki search would show that.. no.. a 1930s physics seminar would not have been exclusively attended by whites. Almost 30 of the scientists and technicians on the project were black.
I highly doubt the project hired every single black scientist or technician in the country, therefore reasonable to assume there were even more blacks that would have been attending seminars in their field of study.
Maybe Mr. Nolan included them in the scenes to reflect the actuality of the times?
I thought it was a great film. My only qualm in terms of race was the clumsy inclusion of black women sitting in a 1930s physics seminar and various black men in the background of gatherings that would have been entirely white. I can only assume that these people are inserted to meet the race quotas that are demanded to allow the film to be included in the Oscar nominations. It didn’t detract too much, just a little bit distracting – don’t let it put you off seeing the film.
You would think–you would think–that if there was one historical event modern leftwing race agitators would not want their peoples to be associated with, it would be the invention and subsequent use of the atomic bomb. But that would be to underestimate the will to power (or, at least, to amoral prestige) which drives the modern race industry.
As rightwing hippie do you listen to the Perfume Nationalist?
As rightwing hippie do you listen to the Perfume Nationalist?
You would think–you would think–that if there was one historical event modern leftwing race agitators would not want their peoples to be associated with, it would be the invention and subsequent use of the atomic bomb. But that would be to underestimate the will to power (or, at least, to amoral prestige) which drives the modern race industry.
Haven’t the Japanese been reclassified as white as a consequence of being too successful?
It’s a solution I’m sure modern physicists approve: too much gravitational attraction and not enough observable mass in the universe? Invent dark matter. Privilege appears to be made out of the same stuff.
Haven’t the Japanese been reclassified as white as a consequence of being too successful?
It’s a solution I’m sure modern physicists approve: too much gravitational attraction and not enough observable mass in the universe? Invent dark matter. Privilege appears to be made out of the same stuff.
How can anyone doubt that von Neumann, Teller, Ulam. Oppenheimer etc..were all transgendered black men?
The jury about Albert Einstein is still out.
How can anyone doubt that von Neumann, Teller, Ulam. Oppenheimer etc..were all transgendered black men?
The jury about Albert Einstein is still out.
And here I was wondering why the film depicts so many black people and women freely milling about the elite military and academic settings in 1930’s and 40’s America. . .
Racism didn’t exist back then.
And Africa was populated by nuclear physicists.
Try telling that to the black American GIs of that period.
And Africa was populated by nuclear physicists.
Try telling that to the black American GIs of that period.
Racism didn’t exist back then.
And here I was wondering why the film depicts so many black people and women freely milling about the elite military and academic settings in 1930’s and 40’s America. . .
I think the economics of movie making will likely stop too much wokism in the industry. There are lots of spaces in movies for non white and non traditional actors – but recent attempts to overdo it – either by inappropriate casting or preachy woke plots – have failed to make money. For example – they gay rom com ‘Bros’ failed for reasons that would be obvious to anyone who understands why we go to see movies in the first place.
I think the economics of movie making will likely stop too much wokism in the industry. There are lots of spaces in movies for non white and non traditional actors – but recent attempts to overdo it – either by inappropriate casting or preachy woke plots – have failed to make money. For example – they gay rom com ‘Bros’ failed for reasons that would be obvious to anyone who understands why we go to see movies in the first place.
It would be fascinating to observe this sort of ethnic narcissism in another group of people. The Germans, perhaps. Oh, wait …
Sorry, what are you talking about?
Sorry, what are you talking about?
It would be fascinating to observe this sort of ethnic narcissism in another group of people. The Germans, perhaps. Oh, wait …
“…the greatest discourse of all, now quite retro: “the Bomb”.” – retro? We had better all hope so… though in the long run I cannot claim to be optimistic.
“…the greatest discourse of all, now quite retro: “the Bomb”.” – retro? We had better all hope so… though in the long run I cannot claim to be optimistic.
I didnt realise there was a question whether Jews are white. Outside loony tunes who think the Middle East was populated by black people, and that Europeans only ever appeared in Europe.
I didnt realise there was a question whether Jews are white. Outside loony tunes who think the Middle East was populated by black people, and that Europeans only ever appeared in Europe.