With respect Ed, there is risk of killing family members whenever there are gatherings. There always has been. Whether it be flu, or similarly contagious diseases, car accidents en route, food poisoning, lightning strikes, drunks fighting, you name it.
It really is utterly impossible to live in a risk free, sterile environment. The sooner people accept this fact (as we always used to pre-COVID), the sooner we all start living again.
A line from Kevin Crossley-Holland’s retelling of Skirnir’s Journey springs to mind: “Fearlessness is better than a faint heart for any man who puts his nose out of doors.”
Remember when we used to be clean and civilised and coughed and sneezed into a tissue which we disposed of. Now , it seems, we are dependant on “the muzzle” to capture all those “droplets” to protect others. Then the “droplets” get breathed back in…..lovely.
I was also wondering about the latest mutation which gives the sheep an excuse for yet another years lockdown. Then there’s next years mutation followed by a years lockdown then there’s the mutation after that etc etc etc Oh hang on the Human immune system has evolved to cope with this scenario which is why humans have survived the tens of thousands of flu, coronavirus, rhinovirus, norovirus etc mutations.
Honestly I despair at how utterly ignorant people are about death, accidents, disease and risk.
shinybeast1
3 years ago
Of course, Christmas alone would be really depressing, but dying of respiratory failure is really depressing too
It’s not really a choice between Christmas alone or dying though is it? This might be the most ridiculous article yet.
to the true covid sheep everything is a choice between wanton selfishness and killing granny, or staying locked down and clapping for the NHS. Either/Or. simple.
Dave Smith
3 years ago
What millions of us in this world celebrate is the day that our world changed forever and the old tales we told ourselves about our lives ended. On that we have built our civilisation and however you prefer to ignore that it is the way things were and still are for millions. It is not just another day.
Alka Hughes-Hallett
3 years ago
“if people just wait a few weeks longer they can all see each other as normal again ” and enjoy many more Christmases.”
How is this going to make any difference? Why would it be better in a few weeks or months ?
“But I guess we can’t wait that long. Everything has to be now, even if it ends costing up thousands of lives.”
Really ? And stopping anything has actually brought the virus under control?
You have bought into the government narrative too!
In a few weeks, the most vulnerable should have been vaccinated. A couple of months (over 60s vaccination), and the pandemic drops to the level of swine flu.
Nick Whitehouse
3 years ago
Ed, You come across as somebody who has fallen for the Government propaganda hook, line & sinker.
You need to accept that people die every day regardless of Covid, it would help you have some prospective in life.
But, if you wish to find an appropriate Saint’s day to replace Christmas, why not try St George’s day? At least the English might like it!!
David Slade
3 years ago
I think everyone who says ‘its only waiting a little bit longer…’ misses the point. I am not overly sentimental about Christmas – but the easing of restrictions to accommodate the normal functioning of society over Christmas is the first sign we have had in 9 months that the relentless social control can be suspended in the name of normal human freedoms.
Without this, the re-ordering of all of society around avoidance of this one particular threat has been mechanistic and unapologetic, despite the damage it has caused and the absence of evidence for it’s effectiveness.
I can’t see us being allowed to have Christmas this year anyway – and we will be all the worse off because of it. I think the author should be careful what he wishes for – he could up saying ‘its only a little bit longer…’ for a very long time to come.
Three weeks to flatten the curve was the original promise in March.
stephensjpriest
3 years ago
Risk of catching coronavirus from a family member you live with is just 17% and only one in three people pass it on to their spouse, study finds
Researchers analyzed 54 studies with more 77,000 participants reporting household secondary transmission of coronavirus Overall, 16.6% of those infected with COVID-19 passed on the disease to members of their household
Daily Mail health/article-9051691/Risk-catching-coronavirus-family-member-live-just-16-6.html
from Telegraph Our Global Health deputy editor Anne Gulland has asked the World Health Organization about the new strain of Covid-19 discussed by Matt Hancock, the UK health secretary, today.
Dr Maria Van Kerkhove, the WHO’s technical lead says there is “no evidence so far” that the new strain of Covid “behaves differently”. Maybe because it’s the old strain
Hahaha. Feels like it some days. Just saying it can spread very rapidly in a household even with self-isolating. I’m not trying to be controversial.
LUKE LOZE
3 years ago
Ed and Co seem to forget that pretty much everyone is breaking the diktats anyway. People are discreetly seeing family and friends. Considering how many in government & media have been caught bending the rules I suspect they’re nearly all at it. The stupid pub ‘substantial meal’ thing, or business lunch clauses make it all a joke. In my personal experience some of the biggest advocates of lockdown are the biggest rule breakers. Like the frequent flier environmentalists, just virtue signalling.
If over the 5 days of Xmas people limited themselves to just 3 households I suspect that would be less exposure than now.
It was supposed to be 5 days this year, now they want to cancel it because their lockdowns, fire breaks, new Tier system (basically renamed lockdown) have all failed to achieve a lot.
Now at Christmas they fear that the people they’ve treated like children will act like children.
Malcolm Ripley
3 years ago
Quote : “Of course, Christmas alone would be really depressing, but dying of respiratory failure is really depressing too and if people just wait a few weeks longer they can all see each other as normal again ” and enjoy many more Christmases.”
Really! Really! What happened to three weeks to flatten the curve. In case you are struggling with the saying “Action speaks louder than words” it means ignore the BS coming out of politicians mouths. Instead look at the actions, consequences and real data. Suprise suprise this has absolutely NOTHING to do with controlling a virus. This about controlling people until a magical get out can be found becasue they cannot ever admit to having screwed up in March.
Oh and by the way, how old are you? Your chances of dying of Covid is far far less than “death by home” Ironic isn’t it people are spending more time at home now where the house is actually more dangerous than covid if you are under 60.
Your post to me 3 days ago is not totally readable the way it’s printed and there is no provision for reply so I’m using this one 1. Comparison of Covid with flu. According to the Office of National Statistics 48,168 deaths were due to Covid between January- July30. 394 were due to flu and 13,619 to pneumonia. 2. Thankyou for your reference to Mr. Cummins and his data and commentary. There are many such available and I prefer to make up my own mind based on the data provided by the ONS and Statista. 3. In regard to age difference according to data found on Statista Covid deaths to July 31 were 65+ 70,143 20-65 63,254 There doesn’t seem to be that large a difference between under and over 65s. 4. Risk is indeed a part of life. But there are some risks which are avoidable and most intelligent people will see Covid as one of them. As I write new restrictions are being announced. I applaud them.
Derek M
3 years ago
A sensible government would not have embarked on this dystopian lockdown madness, unfortunately we are not ruled by a sensible government but by authoritarian maniacs aided and abetted by a truly debased and useless media
ceres777
3 years ago
but we strongly advise you don’t get together because there is a chance you might kill a family member.
A very, very low one in most cases though. Which people know of course, and so the people who go around claiming otherwise simply make themselves look foolish and demolish any credibility they had left.
Michael Whittock
3 years ago
I think you’re right Ed. All the scientists I’ve heard are saying the 5 day relaxation Is very unwise. We know it will lead to the deaths of thousands. And as you say it’s all because we can’t be patient and wait for a few months and let the vaccine kick in. Johnson hasn’t got the backbone to say no. I suspect Gove has.
Christmas is always unwise, it kills thousands every year by spreading infections around outside of people’s normal groups. Perhaps we should just ban people doing anything, for ever – it’s the safest way.
How ridiculous. Of course there is a risk to so many things we do. But this is a particularly dangerous virus of pandemic proportions and cannot be compared to the endemic flu we endure every year.
Actually it can be compared to flu go take a look at the charts. I recommend Ivor Cummins facebook videos for some real science with real data. By the way dangerous to whom exactly? The people older than life expectancy, overweight, multple co-morbidities who would normally have died of the flu. Please don’t give me the “I know a 30 year old who died of Covid” retort. There are people who are 18, play football, run every day and die of a heart attack. Nothing is 100% but when 95% of deaths are over 80 it is absolutely not a dangerous pandemic for the vast majority of people is it?
With respect Ed, there is risk of killing family members whenever there are gatherings. There always has been. Whether it be flu, or similarly contagious diseases, car accidents en route, food poisoning, lightning strikes, drunks fighting, you name it.
It really is utterly impossible to live in a risk free, sterile environment. The sooner people accept this fact (as we always used to pre-COVID), the sooner we all start living again.
Merry Christmas
A line from Kevin Crossley-Holland’s retelling of Skirnir’s Journey springs to mind: “Fearlessness is better than a faint heart for any man who puts his nose out of doors.”
Remember when we used to be clean and civilised and coughed and sneezed into a tissue which we disposed of. Now , it seems, we are dependant on “the muzzle” to capture all those “droplets” to protect others. Then the “droplets” get breathed back in…..lovely.
I was also wondering about the latest mutation which gives the sheep an excuse for yet another years lockdown. Then there’s next years mutation followed by a years lockdown then there’s the mutation after that etc etc etc Oh hang on the Human immune system has evolved to cope with this scenario which is why humans have survived the tens of thousands of flu, coronavirus, rhinovirus, norovirus etc mutations.
Honestly I despair at how utterly ignorant people are about death, accidents, disease and risk.
Of course, Christmas alone would be really depressing, but dying of respiratory failure is really depressing too
It’s not really a choice between Christmas alone or dying though is it? This might be the most ridiculous article yet.
to the true covid sheep everything is a choice between wanton selfishness and killing granny, or staying locked down and clapping for the NHS. Either/Or. simple.
What millions of us in this world celebrate is the day that our world changed forever and the old tales we told ourselves about our lives ended.
On that we have built our civilisation and however you prefer to ignore that it is the way things were and still are for millions.
It is not just another day.
“if people just wait a few weeks longer they can all see each other as normal again ” and enjoy many more Christmases.”
How is this going to make any difference? Why would it be better in a few weeks or months ?
“But I guess we can’t wait that long. Everything has to be now, even if it ends costing up thousands of lives.”
Really ? And stopping anything has actually brought the virus under control?
You have bought into the government narrative too!
In a few weeks, the most vulnerable should have been vaccinated. A couple of months (over 60s vaccination), and the pandemic drops to the level of swine flu.
Ed,
You come across as somebody who has fallen for the Government propaganda hook, line & sinker.
You need to accept that people die every day regardless of Covid, it would help you have some prospective in life.
But, if you wish to find an appropriate Saint’s day to replace Christmas, why not try St George’s day? At least the English might like it!!
I think everyone who says ‘its only waiting a little bit longer…’ misses the point. I am not overly sentimental about Christmas – but the easing of restrictions to accommodate the normal functioning of society over Christmas is the first sign we have had in 9 months that the relentless social control can be suspended in the name of normal human freedoms.
Without this, the re-ordering of all of society around avoidance of this one particular threat has been mechanistic and unapologetic, despite the damage it has caused and the absence of evidence for it’s effectiveness.
I can’t see us being allowed to have Christmas this year anyway – and we will be all the worse off because of it. I think the author should be careful what he wishes for – he could up saying ‘its only a little bit longer…’ for a very long time to come.
Three weeks to flatten the curve was the original promise in March.
Risk of catching coronavirus from a family member you live with is just 17% and only one in three people pass it on to their spouse, study finds
Researchers analyzed 54 studies with more 77,000 participants reporting household secondary transmission of coronavirus
Overall, 16.6% of those infected with COVID-19 passed on the disease to members of their household
Daily Mail health/article-9051691/Risk-catching-coronavirus-family-member-live-just-16-6.html
from Telegraph Our Global Health deputy editor Anne Gulland has asked the World Health Organization about the new strain of Covid-19 discussed by Matt Hancock, the UK health secretary, today.
Dr Maria Van Kerkhove, the WHO’s technical lead says there is “no evidence so far” that the new strain of Covid “behaves differently”.
Maybe because it’s the old strain
Household of 4. All caught it from 1 person mixing with 2 of the household. It spreads in every environment. Safer outdoors I would think.
Did you all die?
Thanks for yourquestion.
Please see my reply to Malcolm Ripley.
Hahaha. Feels like it some days. Just saying it can spread very rapidly in a household even with self-isolating. I’m not trying to be controversial.
Ed and Co seem to forget that pretty much everyone is breaking the diktats anyway.
People are discreetly seeing family and friends.
Considering how many in government & media have been caught bending the rules I suspect they’re nearly all at it.
The stupid pub ‘substantial meal’ thing, or business lunch clauses make it all a joke. In my personal experience some of the biggest advocates of lockdown are the biggest rule breakers. Like the frequent flier environmentalists, just virtue signalling.
If over the 5 days of Xmas people limited themselves to just 3 households I suspect that would be less exposure than now.
5 days?? I was under the impression that Christmas lasts for 12 days (or 39 for those who believe it ends on the eve of Candlemas).
It was supposed to be 5 days this year, now they want to cancel it because their lockdowns, fire breaks, new Tier system (basically renamed lockdown) have all failed to achieve a lot.
Now at Christmas they fear that the people they’ve treated like children will act like children.
Quote : “Of course, Christmas alone would be really depressing, but dying of respiratory failure is really depressing too and if people just wait a few weeks longer they can all see each other as normal again ” and enjoy many more Christmases.”
Really! Really! What happened to three weeks to flatten the curve. In case you are struggling with the saying “Action speaks louder than words” it means ignore the BS coming out of politicians mouths. Instead look at the actions, consequences and real data. Suprise suprise this has absolutely NOTHING to do with controlling a virus. This about controlling people until a magical get out can be found becasue they cannot ever admit to having screwed up in March.
Oh and by the way, how old are you? Your chances of dying of Covid is far far less than “death by home” Ironic isn’t it people are spending more time at home now where the house is actually more dangerous than covid if you are under 60.
Your post to me 3 days ago is not totally readable the way it’s printed and there is no provision for reply so I’m using this one
1. Comparison of Covid with flu. According to the Office of National Statistics 48,168 deaths were due to Covid between January- July30. 394 were due to flu and 13,619 to pneumonia.
2. Thankyou for your reference to Mr. Cummins and his data and commentary. There are many such available and I prefer to make up my own mind based on the data provided by the ONS and Statista.
3. In regard to age difference according to data found on Statista Covid deaths to July 31 were
65+ 70,143
20-65 63,254
There doesn’t seem to be that large a difference between under and over 65s.
4. Risk is indeed a part of life. But there are some risks which are avoidable and most intelligent people will see Covid as one of them. As I write new restrictions are being announced. I applaud them.
A sensible government would not have embarked on this dystopian lockdown madness, unfortunately we are not ruled by a sensible government but by authoritarian maniacs aided and abetted by a truly debased and useless media
A very, very low one in most cases though. Which people know of course, and so the people who go around claiming otherwise simply make themselves look foolish and demolish any credibility they had left.
I think you’re right Ed. All the scientists I’ve heard are saying the 5 day relaxation Is very unwise. We know it will lead to the deaths of thousands. And as you say it’s all because we can’t be patient and wait for a few months and let the vaccine kick in. Johnson hasn’t got the backbone to say no. I suspect Gove has.
Christmas is always unwise, it kills thousands every year by spreading infections around outside of people’s normal groups. Perhaps we should just ban people doing anything, for ever – it’s the safest way.
How ridiculous. Of course there is a risk to so many things we do. But this is a particularly dangerous virus of pandemic proportions and cannot be compared to the endemic flu we endure every year.
Actually it can be compared to flu go take a look at the charts. I recommend Ivor Cummins facebook videos for some real science with real data. By the way dangerous to whom exactly? The people older than life expectancy, overweight, multple co-morbidities who would normally have died of the flu. Please don’t give me the “I know a 30 year old who died of Covid” retort. There are people who are 18, play football, run every day and die of a heart attack. Nothing is 100% but when 95% of deaths are over 80 it is absolutely not a dangerous pandemic for the vast majority of people is it?
Where are the excess deaths?