A lot of people, me included, brought into, and panicked about, the inexorable rise of China for a couple of decades. But, what is rapidly becoming clearer and clearer, is that China is a paper tiger, albeit a different kind of paper tiger to Russia.
Don’t get me wrong, China’s super-rapid rise to date in prosperity, wealth and power projection is absolutely real enough. But age demographics places an upper bound – the Chinese population is already older than many western countries on average, ageing rapidly, and set to decline hugely in absolute numbers over the coming couple of decades – thanks to the one child policy.
In a situation where they face technological blocks which they can’t get past quickly (not able to reverse engineer high end chips, or high end vaccines as the last two or three years have demonstrated), other factors have come to the fore.
They couldn’t bring themselves to buy western vaccines for political narrative reasons. They have shot their own high tech sectors up in a haze political panic about countervailing power centers forming to the CCP, and hubris based on the assumption that they could either reverse engineer and clone western tech as required or buy it. Well, it seems they can’t. Biden has kyboshed their technology assumptions even more than Trump did, and all of a sudden it becomes clear the extent to which China is dependent on inflows of energy, technology and raw materials and outflows of manufactured goods. In that situation, they have undone themselves with their ‘wolf warrior’ bellicosity, because other nations are not totally stupid and won’t allow themselves to be steamrolled. I wondered often over the last couple of decades why the European nations were so sanguine about China when it seemed to me the Chinese posed a huge systematic threat to westen democracy – well, it seems their judgement was sounder than I thought.
I agree with your analysis of China’s structural problems, but not your assertion that Western judgement was sounder. The Chinese have massively shot themselves in the foot through their inability to properly manage their bio-plant in Wuhan. Then they thought they could use Covid to gain further advantage by crippling the West whilst preserving their own economy.
The thing about the authoritarian mindset is that eventually, it leads to self-implosion, whilst democracies – however much we think we’re taking ourselves down – retain an ability for renewal. The entrepreneurial impulse which thrives only through relative freedom to create new tech just can’t be replicated.
It’ll be fascinating to see how this plays out, and what lessons both the CCP and the Chinese population take forward.
“How much evidence is required before it is clear that Western Civilization is empty of integrity, judgment, reason, morality, empathy, compassion, self-awareness, truth, empty of everything that Western Civilization once respected?
All that is left of the West is insouciance and unrestrained evil.”
~Paul Craig Roberts, former Undersecretary Of Treasury, Reagan Administration
“How much evidence is required before it is clear that Western Civilization is empty of integrity, judgment, reason, morality, empathy, compassion, self-awareness, truth, empty of everything that Western Civilization once respected?
All that is left of the West is insouciance and unrestrained evil.”
~Paul Craig Roberts, former Undersecretary Of Treasury, Reagan Administration
To answer your burning question:
No.
I presume your dear and sainted birthing person forgot to teach you that:
Life is not fair, never was and never will be.
It isn’t ‘China’ that is the problem, but a deeply cynical and in fact evil Leninist political system which considers all western Enlightenment, religious or philosophical virtues to be bogus and self serving. Of course Leninism is not in any way a traditional system of belief in Chinese civilisation, which was systematically trashed by Mao and his fanatical followers. The modern Chinese Communist state remains entirely unreformed.
Lenin was one of the most odious human beings who has ever lived, despite the naivety of a seemingly endless resupply of moronic western ‘useful idiots’, who, natch, vociferously hate Thatcher, Reagan, Churchill etc etc but have endless time and excuses for the tens of millions butchered by Lenin, Stalin, Mao, yes and lesser but nevertheless significant killers (once oh so fashionable) such as Giap and the various North Korean Kims. Leninists are not even actually really Marxists, as Lenin was far too impatient to wait for the correct stage of economic development in Marxist dogma for his bloody coup and subsequent massacres of anyone who stood in his way, including most socialists.
Leninists always have and always will be prepared to lie, cheat, murder and enslave on a grand scale. The only virtue they have is the preservation of their brutal and totalitarian control and probably ultimately one person rule. We don’t spend a lot of time considering whether we should have come to a sensible agreement with Hitler; why then apart from sheer slavish necessity perhaps, do we think precisely that about the CCP and Xi Jinping?
To answer your burning question:
No.
I presume your dear and sainted birthing person forgot to teach you that:
Life is not fair, never was and never will be.
It isn’t ‘China’ that is the problem, but a deeply cynical and in fact evil Leninist political system which considers all western Enlightenment, religious or philosophical virtues to be bogus and self serving. Of course Leninism is not in any way a traditional system of belief in Chinese civilisation, which was systematically trashed by Mao and his fanatical followers. The modern Chinese Communist state remains entirely unreformed.
Lenin was one of the most odious human beings who has ever lived, despite the naivety of a seemingly endless resupply of moronic western ‘useful idiots’, who, natch, vociferously hate Thatcher, Reagan, Churchill etc etc but have endless time and excuses for the tens of millions butchered by Lenin, Stalin, Mao, yes and lesser but nevertheless significant killers (once oh so fashionable) such as Giap and the various North Korean Kims. Leninists are not even actually really Marxists, as Lenin was far too impatient to wait for the correct stage of economic development in Marxist dogma for his bloody coup and subsequent massacres of anyone who stood in his way, including most socialists.
Leninists always have and always will be prepared to lie, cheat, murder and enslave on a grand scale. The only virtue they have is the preservation of their brutal and totalitarian control and probably ultimately one person rule. We don’t spend a lot of time considering whether we should have come to a sensible agreement with Hitler; why then apart from sheer slavish necessity perhaps, do we think precisely that about the CCP and Xi Jinping?
Their judgement was sounder? Or they are just lucky that China (accidentally?) created a biohazard for the world and then hubristically responded in extremis; and at the same time allied itself to a despot, Putin, who has broken his country.
The NIH funded some research, but by no means all of it. However the much bigger point is that rightly or wrongly, GOF research is not in itself illegal. Operating a biolab with less biosecurity than your typical dentist, and then systematically deleting the entire research database and engaging in an huge cover up is the far greater sin.
We are only be able to find out any of this because the US is still a significantly, if not entirely open society, with pretty effective freedom of information laws. Opposition is possible. China on the other hand is a brutal Leninist state which fundamentally protects the interests of the CCP leadership above everything else. It treats values such as openness, and human wellbeing in an entirely transactional way at, best, and with utter contempt as weak bourgeois afflictions (which however can be sometimes exploited) at worse. Hence the cynical accusations they make for example against US ‘racism’ as they imprison millions of Uyghurs, who are systematically discriminated against and even used as slave labour.
This point is constantly underplayed that sees China as a state like any other, albeit an authoritarian one.
The NIH funded some research, but by no means all of it. However the much bigger point is that rightly or wrongly, GOF research is not in itself illegal. Operating a biolab with less biosecurity than your typical dentist, and then systematically deleting the entire research database and engaging in an huge cover up is the far greater sin.
We are only be able to find out any of this because the US is still a significantly, if not entirely open society, with pretty effective freedom of information laws. Opposition is possible. China on the other hand is a brutal Leninist state which fundamentally protects the interests of the CCP leadership above everything else. It treats values such as openness, and human wellbeing in an entirely transactional way at, best, and with utter contempt as weak bourgeois afflictions (which however can be sometimes exploited) at worse. Hence the cynical accusations they make for example against US ‘racism’ as they imprison millions of Uyghurs, who are systematically discriminated against and even used as slave labour.
This point is constantly underplayed that sees China as a state like any other, albeit an authoritarian one.
I agree with your analysis of China’s structural problems, but not your assertion that Western judgement was sounder. The Chinese have massively shot themselves in the foot through their inability to properly manage their bio-plant in Wuhan. Then they thought they could use Covid to gain further advantage by crippling the West whilst preserving their own economy.
The thing about the authoritarian mindset is that eventually, it leads to self-implosion, whilst democracies – however much we think we’re taking ourselves down – retain an ability for renewal. The entrepreneurial impulse which thrives only through relative freedom to create new tech just can’t be replicated.
It’ll be fascinating to see how this plays out, and what lessons both the CCP and the Chinese population take forward.
Their judgement was sounder? Or they are just lucky that China (accidentally?) created a biohazard for the world and then hubristically responded in extremis; and at the same time allied itself to a despot, Putin, who has broken his country.
I think our leaders were lucky.
Last edited 1 year ago by Ian Stewart
Prashant Kotak
1 year ago
A lot of people, me included, brought into, and panicked about, the inexorable rise of China for a couple of decades. But, what is rapidly becoming clearer and clearer, is that China is a paper tiger, albeit a different kind of paper tiger to Russia.
Don’t get me wrong, China’s super-rapid rise to date in prosperity, wealth and power projection is absolutely real enough. But age demographics places an upper bound – the Chinese population is already older than many western countries on average, ageing rapidly, and set to decline hugely in absolute numbers over the coming couple of decades – thanks to the one child policy.
In a situation where they face technological blocks which they can’t get past quickly (not able to reverse engineer high end chips, or high end vaccines as the last two or three years have demonstrated), other factors have come to the fore.
They couldn’t bring themselves to buy western vaccines for political narrative reasons. They have shot their own high tech sectors up in a haze political panic about countervailing power centers forming to the CCP, and hubris based on the assumption that they could either reverse engineer and clone western tech as required or buy it. Well, it seems they can’t. Biden has kyboshed their technology assumptions even more than Trump did, and all of a sudden it becomes clear the extent to which China is dependent on inflows of energy, technology and raw materials and outflows of manufactured goods. In that situation, they have undone themselves with their ‘wolf warrior’ bellicosity, because other nations are not totally stupid and won’t allow themselves to be steamrolled. I wondered often over the last couple of decades why the European nations were so sanguine about China when it seemed to me the Chinese posed a huge systematic threat to westen democracy – well, it seems their judgement was sounder than I thought.
Well they won’t import millions of low IQ people from the 3rd World thats for sure. China will still have the Worlds largest smart fraction, the US and the West will continue its slide to Idiocracy
Welcome to Costo, I love you. Welcome to Costco I love you, Welcome to…………
It’s hard to argue against the Idiocracy comment. When politicians openly claim they never said things that are clearly documented online and in print, and a media doesn’t challenge them, it’s obvious that they believe we are idiots.
It’s hard to argue against the Idiocracy comment. When politicians openly claim they never said things that are clearly documented online and in print, and a media doesn’t challenge them, it’s obvious that they believe we are idiots.
Well they won’t import millions of low IQ people from the 3rd World thats for sure. China will still have the Worlds largest smart fraction, the US and the West will continue its slide to Idiocracy
Welcome to Costo, I love you. Welcome to Costco I love you, Welcome to…………
A lot of people, me included, brought into, and panicked about, the inexorable rise of China for a couple of decades. But, what is rapidly becoming clearer and clearer, is that China is a paper tiger, albeit a different kind of paper tiger to Russia.
Don’t get me wrong, China’s super-rapid rise to date in prosperity, wealth and power projection is absolutely real enough. But age demographics places an upper bound – the Chinese population is already older than many western countries on average, ageing rapidly, and set to decline hugely in absolute numbers over the coming couple of decades – thanks to the one child policy.
In a situation where they face technological blocks which they can’t get past quickly (not able to reverse engineer high end chips, or high end vaccines as the last two or three years have demonstrated), other factors have come to the fore.
They couldn’t bring themselves to buy western vaccines for political narrative reasons. They have shot their own high tech sectors up in a haze political panic about countervailing power centers forming to the CCP, and hubris based on the assumption that they could either reverse engineer and clone western tech as required or buy it. Well, it seems they can’t. Biden has kyboshed their technology assumptions even more than Trump did, and all of a sudden it becomes clear the extent to which China is dependent on inflows of energy, technology and raw materials and outflows of manufactured goods. In that situation, they have undone themselves with their ‘wolf warrior’ bellicosity, because other nations are not totally stupid and won’t allow themselves to be steamrolled. I wondered often over the last couple of decades why the European nations were so sanguine about China when it seemed to me the Chinese posed a huge systematic threat to westen democracy – well, it seems their judgement was sounder than I thought.
I agree with your analysis of China’s structural problems, but not your assertion that Western judgement was sounder. The Chinese have massively shot themselves in the foot through their inability to properly manage their bio-plant in Wuhan. Then they thought they could use Covid to gain further advantage by crippling the West whilst preserving their own economy.
The thing about the authoritarian mindset is that eventually, it leads to self-implosion, whilst democracies – however much we think we’re taking ourselves down – retain an ability for renewal. The entrepreneurial impulse which thrives only through relative freedom to create new tech just can’t be replicated.
It’ll be fascinating to see how this plays out, and what lessons both the CCP and the Chinese population take forward.
Why must you see others success as a systemic threat? And find reassurance in their weakness? Isn’t it perverse?
The CCP is a systemic threat: to its own people and to the world. Most people, Chinese or otherwise, are aware of how evil the CCP is.
“How much evidence is required before it is clear that Western Civilization is empty of integrity, judgment, reason, morality, empathy, compassion, self-awareness, truth, empty of everything that Western Civilization once respected?
All that is left of the West is insouciance and unrestrained evil.”
~Paul Craig Roberts, former Undersecretary Of Treasury, Reagan Administration
“How much evidence is required before it is clear that Western Civilization is empty of integrity, judgment, reason, morality, empathy, compassion, self-awareness, truth, empty of everything that Western Civilization once respected?
All that is left of the West is insouciance and unrestrained evil.”
~Paul Craig Roberts, former Undersecretary Of Treasury, Reagan Administration
To answer your burning question:
No.
I presume your dear and sainted birthing person forgot to teach you that:
Life is not fair, never was and never will be.
As to the former, they are a systemic threat. As to the latter, well, that naturally follows from the first realisation.
It isn’t ‘China’ that is the problem, but a deeply cynical and in fact evil Leninist political system which considers all western Enlightenment, religious or philosophical virtues to be bogus and self serving. Of course Leninism is not in any way a traditional system of belief in Chinese civilisation, which was systematically trashed by Mao and his fanatical followers. The modern Chinese Communist state remains entirely unreformed.
Lenin was one of the most odious human beings who has ever lived, despite the naivety of a seemingly endless resupply of moronic western ‘useful idiots’, who, natch, vociferously hate Thatcher, Reagan, Churchill etc etc but have endless time and excuses for the tens of millions butchered by Lenin, Stalin, Mao, yes and lesser but nevertheless significant killers (once oh so fashionable) such as Giap and the various North Korean Kims. Leninists are not even actually really Marxists, as Lenin was far too impatient to wait for the correct stage of economic development in Marxist dogma for his bloody coup and subsequent massacres of anyone who stood in his way, including most socialists.
Leninists always have and always will be prepared to lie, cheat, murder and enslave on a grand scale. The only virtue they have is the preservation of their brutal and totalitarian control and probably ultimately one person rule. We don’t spend a lot of time considering whether we should have come to a sensible agreement with Hitler; why then apart from sheer slavish necessity perhaps, do we think precisely that about the CCP and Xi Jinping?
The CCP is a systemic threat: to its own people and to the world. Most people, Chinese or otherwise, are aware of how evil the CCP is.
To answer your burning question:
No.
I presume your dear and sainted birthing person forgot to teach you that:
Life is not fair, never was and never will be.
As to the former, they are a systemic threat. As to the latter, well, that naturally follows from the first realisation.
It isn’t ‘China’ that is the problem, but a deeply cynical and in fact evil Leninist political system which considers all western Enlightenment, religious or philosophical virtues to be bogus and self serving. Of course Leninism is not in any way a traditional system of belief in Chinese civilisation, which was systematically trashed by Mao and his fanatical followers. The modern Chinese Communist state remains entirely unreformed.
Lenin was one of the most odious human beings who has ever lived, despite the naivety of a seemingly endless resupply of moronic western ‘useful idiots’, who, natch, vociferously hate Thatcher, Reagan, Churchill etc etc but have endless time and excuses for the tens of millions butchered by Lenin, Stalin, Mao, yes and lesser but nevertheless significant killers (once oh so fashionable) such as Giap and the various North Korean Kims. Leninists are not even actually really Marxists, as Lenin was far too impatient to wait for the correct stage of economic development in Marxist dogma for his bloody coup and subsequent massacres of anyone who stood in his way, including most socialists.
Leninists always have and always will be prepared to lie, cheat, murder and enslave on a grand scale. The only virtue they have is the preservation of their brutal and totalitarian control and probably ultimately one person rule. We don’t spend a lot of time considering whether we should have come to a sensible agreement with Hitler; why then apart from sheer slavish necessity perhaps, do we think precisely that about the CCP and Xi Jinping?
Their judgement was sounder? Or they are just lucky that China (accidentally?) created a biohazard for the world and then hubristically responded in extremis; and at the same time allied itself to a despot, Putin, who has broken his country.
I think our leaders were lucky.
“Puting has broken his country”
Really?
Must your forever be a beggar
Whose golden dreams will never come true.
It was Fauci’s/NIH money that financed the Gain of Function research in the Wuhan Institute of Virology.
The NIH funded some research, but by no means all of it. However the much bigger point is that rightly or wrongly, GOF research is not in itself illegal. Operating a biolab with less biosecurity than your typical dentist, and then systematically deleting the entire research database and engaging in an huge cover up is the far greater sin.
We are only be able to find out any of this because the US is still a significantly, if not entirely open society, with pretty effective freedom of information laws. Opposition is possible. China on the other hand is a brutal Leninist state which fundamentally protects the interests of the CCP leadership above everything else. It treats values such as openness, and human wellbeing in an entirely transactional way at, best, and with utter contempt as weak bourgeois afflictions (which however can be sometimes exploited) at worse. Hence the cynical accusations they make for example against US ‘racism’ as they imprison millions of Uyghurs, who are systematically discriminated against and even used as slave labour.
This point is constantly underplayed that sees China as a state like any other, albeit an authoritarian one.
The NIH funded some research, but by no means all of it. However the much bigger point is that rightly or wrongly, GOF research is not in itself illegal. Operating a biolab with less biosecurity than your typical dentist, and then systematically deleting the entire research database and engaging in an huge cover up is the far greater sin.
We are only be able to find out any of this because the US is still a significantly, if not entirely open society, with pretty effective freedom of information laws. Opposition is possible. China on the other hand is a brutal Leninist state which fundamentally protects the interests of the CCP leadership above everything else. It treats values such as openness, and human wellbeing in an entirely transactional way at, best, and with utter contempt as weak bourgeois afflictions (which however can be sometimes exploited) at worse. Hence the cynical accusations they make for example against US ‘racism’ as they imprison millions of Uyghurs, who are systematically discriminated against and even used as slave labour.
This point is constantly underplayed that sees China as a state like any other, albeit an authoritarian one.
“Puting has broken his country”
Really?
Must your forever be a beggar
Whose golden dreams will never come true.
It was Fauci’s/NIH money that financed the Gain of Function research in the Wuhan Institute of Virology.
I agree with your analysis of China’s structural problems, but not your assertion that Western judgement was sounder. The Chinese have massively shot themselves in the foot through their inability to properly manage their bio-plant in Wuhan. Then they thought they could use Covid to gain further advantage by crippling the West whilst preserving their own economy.
The thing about the authoritarian mindset is that eventually, it leads to self-implosion, whilst democracies – however much we think we’re taking ourselves down – retain an ability for renewal. The entrepreneurial impulse which thrives only through relative freedom to create new tech just can’t be replicated.
It’ll be fascinating to see how this plays out, and what lessons both the CCP and the Chinese population take forward.
Why must you see others success as a systemic threat? And find reassurance in their weakness? Isn’t it perverse?
Their judgement was sounder? Or they are just lucky that China (accidentally?) created a biohazard for the world and then hubristically responded in extremis; and at the same time allied itself to a despot, Putin, who has broken his country.
I think our leaders were lucky.
A lot of people, me included, brought into, and panicked about, the inexorable rise of China for a couple of decades. But, what is rapidly becoming clearer and clearer, is that China is a paper tiger, albeit a different kind of paper tiger to Russia.
Don’t get me wrong, China’s super-rapid rise to date in prosperity, wealth and power projection is absolutely real enough. But age demographics places an upper bound – the Chinese population is already older than many western countries on average, ageing rapidly, and set to decline hugely in absolute numbers over the coming couple of decades – thanks to the one child policy.
In a situation where they face technological blocks which they can’t get past quickly (not able to reverse engineer high end chips, or high end vaccines as the last two or three years have demonstrated), other factors have come to the fore.
They couldn’t bring themselves to buy western vaccines for political narrative reasons. They have shot their own high tech sectors up in a haze political panic about countervailing power centers forming to the CCP, and hubris based on the assumption that they could either reverse engineer and clone western tech as required or buy it. Well, it seems they can’t. Biden has kyboshed their technology assumptions even more than Trump did, and all of a sudden it becomes clear the extent to which China is dependent on inflows of energy, technology and raw materials and outflows of manufactured goods. In that situation, they have undone themselves with their ‘wolf warrior’ bellicosity, because other nations are not totally stupid and won’t allow themselves to be steamrolled. I wondered often over the last couple of decades why the European nations were so sanguine about China when it seemed to me the Chinese posed a huge systematic threat to westen democracy – well, it seems their judgement was sounder than I thought.
I could not agree more.
I could not agree less
I could not agree less
I could not agree more.
Why shouldn’t we be wary of the Chinese? Look what they’ve done.
It was the Yanks what done it – not the Chinese
It was the Yanks what done it – not the Chinese
Why shouldn’t we be wary of the Chinese? Look what they’ve done.
I’m not sure the US will exist in its current form ten years from now, I think China will
How do you think the CCP will get past the Chinese demographic bust on their doorstep?
Well they won’t import millions of low IQ people from the 3rd World thats for sure. China will still have the Worlds largest smart fraction, the US and the West will continue its slide to Idiocracy
Welcome to Costo, I love you. Welcome to Costco I love you, Welcome to…………
It’s hard to argue against the Idiocracy comment. When politicians openly claim they never said things that are clearly documented online and in print, and a media doesn’t challenge them, it’s obvious that they believe we are idiots.
It’s hard to argue against the Idiocracy comment. When politicians openly claim they never said things that are clearly documented online and in print, and a media doesn’t challenge them, it’s obvious that they believe we are idiots.
Well they won’t import millions of low IQ people from the 3rd World thats for sure. China will still have the Worlds largest smart fraction, the US and the West will continue its slide to Idiocracy
Welcome to Costo, I love you. Welcome to Costco I love you, Welcome to…………
Never underestimate the US. It has flaws obviously but it is able to regenerate fast and surprisingly.
Yup, it’s an amazing country and culture. How it came about with this resilient capability from the various roots is fascinating.
Its a country where reform is no longer possible. they have reached the looting phase of empire
Yup, it’s an amazing country and culture. How it came about with this resilient capability from the various roots is fascinating.
Its a country where reform is no longer possible. they have reached the looting phase of empire
The Simpsons did an episode about your views – it was very funny.
How do you think the CCP will get past the Chinese demographic bust on their doorstep?
Never underestimate the US. It has flaws obviously but it is able to regenerate fast and surprisingly.
The Simpsons did an episode about your views – it was very funny.
I’m not sure the US will exist in its current form ten years from now, I think China will