PHE absolutely MUST be dismantled post-pandemic, as it is clear that it is not fit for purpose. None of the current senior people must be allowed to work in the field again. Their incompetence is intolerable.
Yes, their incompetence is matched only by their arrogance.
Jonathan Ellman
3 years ago
This could have been done in October. It would have meant gambling that the vaccine would pass the due process but it could have been ready months ago. And if the vaccine failed the due process, it would have been a waste of several 100s of millions, but not billions that we are losing to the lockdown.
The 1,000,000 official volunteers and no doubt many times more willing to help, could have been employed for distribution and vial filling.
Pharmacists are not being used to give the vaccine despite having expertise and experience and begging the NHS to allow them to help. That’s over 11,000 capable vaccinators.
Giving a vaccine may not be as simple as sticking a needle in someone’s arm. There are risks such as damaging a nerve or muscle and having bubbles in the syringe. But medical students and graduates of medical science degrees are surely capable of being taught on a training course run perhaps by the 11,000 vaccinators. Each experienced vaccinator could train and oversee the vaccinations of 10 vaccinators. This too could have been prepared months ago.
At first it seemed like incompetence and lack of vision. Now it seems like control and power is the limiting factor.
Tim Diggle
3 years ago
Tell me if I am being foolish here but I read elsewhere that it is estimated that up to 1M people have COVID today.
Considering that this matches the March/April peak last year and allowing for the summer reductions and assuming an average 2 week period of illness this suggests to me that at least 4 or 5M people have recovered. Assuming that the asymptomatic sufferers and those who have not been tested need to be added this swells the number somewhat.
As a result, how many vaccinations do we really need to see numbers reduce? I fully accept that the information required to calculate accurately those immune through infection simply does not exist, nor ever will so long as asymptomatic infections exist, but the levels of infections, hospitalisations and deaths should provide some sort of clue. Surely it should not be beyond the wit of man to estimate immunity rates by reference to falling infection and fatality rates …
Fraser Bailey
3 years ago
Well with Public Health England (has any organisation ever been more inappropriately named?) refusing to work on Sundays, I wouldn’t bet on it. Apparently in Israel they are working 24/7 including on the Sabbath to get everyone vaccinated. I think they are almost finished now*, unless they have to do all the endlessly useless, whining Palestinians as well.
*Correction. It seems they have only vaccinated on sixth of the Israeli population. Still that’s a much larger percentage than we have managed, and we are doing a lot better than the EU countries, where the whole thing is an unfolding disaster.
I mean…, having Tom Chivers on board on this platform is already quite an ordeal but this Kitson is an even greater pain in the *…The effect of any corona-vaccine is heavily overrated because the people they’re trying to save with it are almost dead. If you are lucky the vaccine will do the same as the vaccines against inluenza, which is close to nothing when you are aiming at a period of let’ say more than 2 years of extra life expectancy
Glad I’m not alone with the sentiment about Tom Chivers. I have always wondered if he and Freddie sit down together in the break room for coffee and a yarn.
Average number of years of lives lost is about a dozen. Nearly half the people in hospital are under 65.
Steve Roberts
3 years ago
Related article on Spiked today, this was my response.As I wrote on My FB page this vaccine is last chance saloon for the establishment to claim a victory after they have destroyed so many lives in so many ways.So we can expect everything to be mobilised , we’ll take that, it’s also something I wrote about many months ago.An inability to confirm that the vaccine will prevent further infections is a large problem especially if they continue with mass testing. So after mass immunization are we to expect the cessation of mass testing? Oh the irony Lyons refers to the bureaucracy etc and undoubtedly this will extend the period required. But the problem is much deeper , we live in an entire cultural of the precautionary principle and technocratic irrational governance throughout the state and its institutions. It’s one of the reasons we got into this disgraceful mess. Even when the state mobilised with so much at stake this will not dissappesr overnight. We can expect much more of back and forth between the centre and on the ground logistics. One peripheral example..Deputy chairman of the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation (JCVI), Professor Anthony Harnden on the BBC today warning of ” Vaccinator Fatigue” and a strategy needed to rotate vaccinators.. A blitz spirit.? https://www.spiked-online.c…
Ian Perkins
3 years ago
Even if successfully implemented, this measure will not address the shortage of vaccines. Politicians have accepted that vaccine shortages are inevitable, and in wealthy nations are trying to wish them away and onto others.
Alex Lekas
3 years ago
And then what? Because it is quite a stretch that the powerbrokers are that eager to loosen the reins. From changing guidance to moving goalposts to rules that cause demonstrable harm, this has been a sorry exercise in outsourcing risk management to the unaccountable third party of govt.
PHE absolutely MUST be dismantled post-pandemic, as it is clear that it is not fit for purpose. None of the current senior people must be allowed to work in the field again. Their incompetence is intolerable.
Yes, their incompetence is matched only by their arrogance.
This could have been done in October. It would have meant gambling that the vaccine would pass the due process but it could have been ready months ago. And if the vaccine failed the due process, it would have been a waste of several 100s of millions, but not billions that we are losing to the lockdown.
The 1,000,000 official volunteers and no doubt many times more willing to help, could have been employed for distribution and vial filling.
Pharmacists are not being used to give the vaccine despite having expertise and experience and begging the NHS to allow them to help. That’s over 11,000 capable vaccinators.
Giving a vaccine may not be as simple as sticking a needle in someone’s arm. There are risks such as damaging a nerve or muscle and having bubbles in the syringe. But medical students and graduates of medical science degrees are surely capable of being taught on a training course run perhaps by the 11,000 vaccinators. Each experienced vaccinator could train and oversee the vaccinations of 10 vaccinators. This too could have been prepared months ago.
At first it seemed like incompetence and lack of vision. Now it seems like control and power is the limiting factor.
Tell me if I am being foolish here but I read elsewhere that it is estimated that up to 1M people have COVID today.
Considering that this matches the March/April peak last year and allowing for the summer reductions and assuming an average 2 week period of illness this suggests to me that at least 4 or 5M people have recovered. Assuming that the asymptomatic sufferers and those who have not been tested need to be added this swells the number somewhat.
As a result, how many vaccinations do we really need to see numbers reduce? I fully accept that the information required to calculate accurately those immune through infection simply does not exist, nor ever will so long as asymptomatic infections exist, but the levels of infections, hospitalisations and deaths should provide some sort of clue. Surely it should not be beyond the wit of man to estimate immunity rates by reference to falling infection and fatality rates …
Well with Public Health England (has any organisation ever been more inappropriately named?) refusing to work on Sundays, I wouldn’t bet on it. Apparently in Israel they are working 24/7 including on the Sabbath to get everyone vaccinated. I think they are almost finished now*, unless they have to do all the endlessly useless, whining Palestinians as well.
*Correction. It seems they have only vaccinated on sixth of the Israeli population. Still that’s a much larger percentage than we have managed, and we are doing a lot better than the EU countries, where the whole thing is an unfolding disaster.
Wow, is it fashionable these days to have entire population groups called useless and whining?
If so, does anyone have any suggestion what the Brits should be called?
useless and whining?
Once again:
I mean…, having Tom Chivers on board on this platform is already quite
an ordeal but this Kitson is an even greater pain in the *…The effect
of any corona-vaccine is heavily overrated because the people they’re
trying to save with it are almost dead. If you are lucky the vaccine
will do the same as the vaccines against inluenza, which is close to
nothing when you are aiming at a period of let’ say more than 2 years of
extra life expectancy
Glad I’m not alone with the sentiment about Tom Chivers. I have always wondered if he and Freddie sit down together in the break room for coffee and a yarn.
Average number of years of lives lost is about a dozen. Nearly half the people in hospital are under 65.
Related article on Spiked today, this was my response.As I wrote on My FB page this vaccine is last chance saloon for the establishment to claim a victory after they have destroyed so many lives in so many ways.So we can expect everything to be mobilised , we’ll take that, it’s also something I wrote about many months ago.An inability to confirm that the vaccine will prevent further infections is a large problem especially if they continue with mass testing. So after mass immunization are we to expect the cessation of mass testing? Oh the irony Lyons refers to the bureaucracy etc and undoubtedly this will extend the period required. But the problem is much deeper , we live in an entire cultural of the precautionary principle and technocratic irrational governance throughout the state and its institutions. It’s one of the reasons we got into this disgraceful mess. Even when the state mobilised with so much at stake this will not dissappesr overnight. We can expect much more of back and forth between the centre and on the ground logistics. One peripheral example..Deputy chairman of the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation (JCVI), Professor Anthony Harnden on the BBC today warning of ” Vaccinator Fatigue” and a strategy needed to rotate vaccinators.. A blitz spirit.? https://www.spiked-online.c…
Even if successfully implemented, this measure will not address the shortage of vaccines. Politicians have accepted that vaccine shortages are inevitable, and in wealthy nations are trying to wish them away and onto others.
And then what? Because it is quite a stretch that the powerbrokers are that eager to loosen the reins. From changing guidance to moving goalposts to rules that cause demonstrable harm, this has been a sorry exercise in outsourcing risk management to the unaccountable third party of govt.