SOUTHPORT, ANGLETERRE - 30 JUILLET : La police anti-émeute retient des manifestants près d'un véhicule de police en feu après que des troubles ont éclaté le 30 juillet 2024 à Southport, en Angleterre. Des rumeurs concernant l'identité du suspect de 17 ans dans l'attaque au couteau mortelle d'hier ici ont déclenché une manifestation violente. Selon les autorités et les rapports médiatiques, le suspect est né à Cardiff de parents rwandais, mais la personne ne peut pas être nommée en raison de son âge. Un faux rapport avait circulé en ligne selon lequel le suspect était un immigrant récent qui avait traversé la Manche la semaine dernière et était « sur une liste de surveillance du MI6 ». (Photo par Getty Images)

À la suite de l’attentat de la Manchester Arena en 2017, les conséquences, comme celles d’autres atrocités terroristes récentes, ont été marquées par ce qu’on a révélé par la suite comme étant une politique coordonnée du gouvernement britannique de « spontanéité contrôlée ». Des veillées et des événements interconfessionnels prévus à l’avance ont été organisés, et des personnes ont distribué des fleurs « dans des gestes apparemment non provoqués d’amour et de soutien » dans le cadre d’une opération d’information « pour façonner les réponses du public, encourageant les individus à se concentrer sur l’empathie pour les victimes et un sentiment d’unité avec des étrangers, plutôt que de réagir avec violence et colère ». L’objectif était de présenter une image de solidarité communautaire dépolitisée au sein de l’étreinte bienveillante de l’État, même si celle-ci n’était pas adéquatement protectrice.
Ce que nous avons vu depuis l’attaque de Southport est la réponse exactement opposée : spontanéité incontrôlée, que la politique gouvernementale est expressément conçue pour prévenir. Lorsque Keir Starmer s’est rendu sur les lieux pour déposer des fleurs, il a été interpellé par des habitants exigeant « un changement » et l’accusant de ne pas avoir su protéger le peuple britannique. Évidemment, Starmer, qui en août était au pouvoir depuis moins d’un mois, n’a aucune responsabilité personnelle dans l’attaque : au contraire, il a été ridiculisé en tant que représentant de la classe politique britannique, et d’un État britannique qui ne peut maintenir un niveau de sécurité de base pour ses sujets.
De la même manière, les émeutiers à Southport — alimentés par de fausses allégations selon lesquelles le tueur était un réfugié musulman — ont applaudi lorsqu’ils ont blessé des policiers lors de l’ordre violent qui a suivi la veillée initiale, qui a inclus des tentatives de brûler la mosquée de la ville dans ce qui ne peut être qualifié que de pogrom. Comme l’émeute qui a suivi à Hartlepool, la violence contre les émissaires de l’État — la police — a été couplée à des actes de violence réels et tentés contre des migrants, objectivement racistes et islamophobes.
Il existe de forts parallèles avec le désordre en cours en Irlande, qui est une réaction explicite à la migration de masse : les émeutes de Dublin de l’année dernière, déclenchées par la tentative de meurtre d’enfants par un migrant algérien, étaient en quelque sorte un présage des troubles de masse actuels en Grande-Bretagne. À Southport, l’étincelle des émeutes — l’attaque elle-même — a été rapidement absorbée dans un sentiment plus large d’hostilité envers la migration de masse : les manifestants portaient des pancartes exigeant que l’État « les expulse » et « arrête les bateaux » pour « protéger nos enfants à tout prix ». Comme en Irlande, des femmes locales étaient probablement en première ligne, harcelant la police et faisant taire les voix hésitantes avec des appels à la solidarité de groupe. Bien qu’il s’agisse d’une dynamique très différente de la mobilisation de rue dominée par les hooligans de football organisée autour de Tommy Robinson — comme en témoignent les affrontements désordonnés de mercredi à Whitehall — les commentateurs libéraux en Grande-Bretagne, comme en Irlande, ont néanmoins choisi de dépeindre la violence comme orchestrée par Robinson, plutôt que lui s’accrochant à celle-ci, comme c’est également le cas en Irlande.
Choqués par la secousse portée à leur vision du monde, les libéraux britanniques, pour qui la dépolitisation du choix politique de la migration de masse est une cause morale centrale, ont également blâmé Nigel Farage, les médias, le Parti conservateur, le Parti travailliste et Vladimir Poutine pour les émeutes, plutôt que les motivations explicitement articulées des émeutiers eux-mêmes. Mais il existe un terme social-scientifique factuel pour le désordre en cours : le conflit ethnique, un usage soigneusement évité par l’État britannique par crainte de ses implications politiques. Comme l’a observé l’académique Elaine Thomas dans son essai de 1998 “Muting Interethnic Conflict in Post-Imperial Britain”, l’État britannique est inhabituel en Europe, étant exceptionnellement libéral dans l’octroi de droits politiques aux nouveaux arrivants” tout en atténuant le conflit interethnique en refusant simplement de parler du sujet, et en plaçant des sanctions sociales sur ceux qui le font. Quand ça fonctionne, ça fonctionne : « Le conflit interethnique n’a jamais été aussi sévère, prolongé ou violent en Grande-Bretagne qu’il ne l’a été dans de nombreux autres pays » — pour cela, nous devrions être reconnaissants.
Mais comme le note Thomas, parfois cela ne fonctionne pas, comme dans l’intervention célèbre d’Enoch Powell, soutenue par 74 % des Britanniques interrogés à l’époque, lorsque, « une fois le silence rompu et le débat public ouvert, les libéraux se sont retrouvés dans une position faible. Ayant concentré leurs efforts sur le fait de faire taire la question, ils n’avaient pas développé de discours pour y faire face », et se sont retrouvés déconcertés par des manifestations en soutien à Powell. Le gouvernement travailliste de l’époque a traité les tensions croissantes entourant l’immigration en faisant passer en urgence une législation d’urgence qui a imposé un moratoire effectif sur l’immigration extra-européenne via le Commonwealth Immigrants Act de 1968, dans le but d’assimiler les migrants déjà présents et d’atténuer la violence naissante en empêchant d’autres migrants d’arriver.
Cependant, sous le Nouveau Parti travailliste, cette politique principalement réussie a été abandonnée, avec l’intention consciente de transformer la Grande-Bretagne en une société spécifiquement multiethnique — plutôt que multiraciale — largement dérivée de l’enthousiasme bref de l’époque pour la mondialisation. En aval des théories sociales-scientifiques alors à la mode sur l’inévitabilité et le désir simultanés d’une telle transformation, des documents politiques comme le rapport influent du Runnymede Trust “L’avenir de la Grande-Bretagne multiethnique” ont poussé à redéfinir la Grande-Bretagne comme “une communauté de communautés”, un État véritablement multiculturel qui rejetait la “définition étroite dominée par les Anglais et rétrograde de la nation”. Les identités ethniques — dont l’identité britannique était encadrée comme l’une parmi tant d’autres — devaient être embrassées, dans les paramètres du nouvel État multiculturel, et les restrictions à l’immigration levées pour atteindre cet objectif.
Cependant, le virage du Parti travailliste vers une compréhension explicitement ethnique des relations communautaires ne durerait pas longtemps. Suite aux émeutes ethniques de 2001 à Bradford, Oldham et Burnley, le gouvernement travailliste a effectué un retournement dramatique. Comme l’a observé l’académique tunisien Hassen Zriba : « Tout à coup, le multiculturalisme est devenu la maladie qui nécessitait une solution urgente. » Le gouvernement de Blair a commandé cinq rapports distincts, tous déclarant « que la diversité culturelle excessive est un obstacle à l’harmonie interraciale, et que la cohésion communautaire est la meilleure solution ».
Cette insistance sur la cohésion communautaire a été accentuée par les attaques jihadistes de masse des années 2000 et 2010, menant inexorablement — avec le programme Prevent, l’élargissement des pouvoirs d’État de coercition et de surveillance, et la construction accélérée d’une conception civique de la britannicité — au projet de « spontanéité contrôlée », dont nous avons été témoins à Southport. Alors que les autres États d’Europe du Nord-Ouest qui ont adopté une éthique multiculturelle, notamment la Suède et les Pays-Bas, ont depuis abandonné cette approche, le discours britannique reste encore engagé envers le multiculturalisme.
Cependant, dans la pratique, l’État britannique a discrètement adopté une version renouvelée de l’assimilationnisme. Au cours des deux dernières décennies, une version ample de la britannicité a été construite autour de pas grand chose de plus que des symboles nationaux superficiels et du désir d’éviter les conflits ethniques, euphémisés en tant que « valeurs britanniques ». Fait intéressant, Blair lui-même, qui maintenant rejette le multiculturalisme, est récemment devenu un défenseur de Lee Kuan Yew, dont la philosophie politique considère la diversité ethnique de Singapour comme, plutôt qu’une force, un frein indésirable dérivé de bonnes intentions coloniales britanniques.
Mais en mettant de côté l’autoritarisme latent, Starmer n’est pas Lee Kuan Yew. Sa tentative hésitante de diriger le discours après l’attaque de Southport vers la lutte contre les « attaques au couteau » — un euphémisme de l’État britannique — met en évidence l’incapacité idéologique de l’État à aborder franchement les tensions ethniques, et donc à les gérer efficacement. S’il se produisait dans un autre pays, les journalistes et les politiciens britanniques discuteraient de telles dynamiques de manière factuelle. C’est, après tout, simplement la nature des sociétés humaines. En effet, c’est l’une des principales raisons pour lesquelles les réfugiés fuient leur pays pour la Grande-Bretagne en premier lieu.
Cependant, lorsqu’elles se produisent dans notre propre pays, de telles dynamiques sont trop dangereuses pour être ne serait-ce que nommées. Au lieu de cela, les groupes ethniques sont euphémiquement appelés « communautés », et l’évitement géré par l’État des conflits ethniques est qualifié de « relations communautaires ». Lorsque les Roms des Balkans ont participé à des émeutes à Leeds récemment, c’était en tant que groupe ethnique réagissant à ce qu’il percevait comme l’ingérence de l’État britannique dans sa vie : l’État britannique, en retour, a adressé sa réponse à la nébuleuse « communauté de Harehills ». Lorsque des hindous et des musulmans ont été impliqués dans des affrontements intercommunautaires violents à Leicester il y a deux ans, c’était en tant que groupes ethnoreligieux rivaux, et l’État britannique a de nouveau répondu à cela comme un problème à traiter par des « leaders communautaires » — l’euphémisme de l’État pour ses intermédiaires choisis, dans une forme de gouvernement indirect héritée de la gouvernance coloniale.
Mais lorsque les émeutes sont menées par des participants ethniques britanniques, comme c’est le cas maintenant, les limites de cette stratégie se révèlent : la perception d’une identité britannique ou anglaise ethnique, plutôt que civique, est activement protégée en tant que politique d’État, tout comme l’émergence de « leaders communautaires » britanniques ethniques. En tant que tel, les défenseurs politiques d’une identité ethnique britannique sont isolés du discours dominant, comme cela a été la politique de l’État depuis l’affaire Powell : toute expression de ce sentiment est ce que Starmer entend par « l’extrême droite », plutôt qu’un désir traditionnellement défini de mener des génocides ou de conquérir des pays voisins. Cet état de choses sur le continent, soit dit en passant, contraste fortement avec l’Irlande du Nord, où l’existence de groupes ethniques irlandais et britanniques rivaux est la base du système politique, réifié par l’État britannique à travers l’appareil de partage du pouvoir ethnique du parlement de Stormont. En Irlande du Nord, la britannicité est une identité ethnique : de l’autre côté de la mer d’Irlande, c’est une identité fermement civique : le fait que ces constructions diffèrent est une fonction de l’opportunisme politique plutôt que de la cohérence logique.
Cette ambivalence à l’égard de la désignation des divers groupes ethniques de la Grande-Bretagne est mise en contraste par l’engagement profond de l’État britannique envers les groupes d’identité basés sur la race, une particularité culturelle que les universitaires ont longtemps soulignée, et qui distingue la Grande-Bretagne de ses voisins européens. Même aujourd’hui, le discours politique en Grande-Bretagne évite l’ethnicité pour se concentrer sur la race d’une manière inhabituelle en dehors de l’Amérique, où cela découle d’une économie esclavagiste presque unique, stratifiée, superposée à une société coloniale de colons dérivant d’un génocide. Pourtant, les libéraux britanniques, mal à l’aise avec les identités ethniques — en particulier la leur — font plutôt une obsession sur la politique de la race. Le conflit ethnique est tabou à discuter même de manière abstraite : mais les émeutes raciales des minorités, même en raison de griefs importés, sont perçues avec sympathie.
Peut-être bien intentionné, l’objectif assimilationniste de cette dynamique a été contrecarré par la promotion parallèle par l’État britannique de la nouvelle identité « BAME », rassemblant divers groupes ethniques géographiquement non connectés en un tout politique uniquement en vertu de leur origine non européenne. Au lieu de refléter notre réalité vécue d’un pays désormais composé de multiples ethnicités, parmi lesquelles la majorité des Britanniques natifs, une binarité racialement artificielle a été construite à des fins idéologiques, dans laquelle les Britanniques ethniques, avec d’autres Européens, étaient simplement blancs, tandis que les Britanniques non blancs étaient encouragés à s’identifier comme une force d’équilibre. Je suis légalement, mais pas ethniquement britannique — comme la plupart des descendants de migrants, je suis parfaitement heureux avec ma propre identité ethnique héritée — mais dans la poursuite de sa propre logique convoluée, l’État britannique choisit plutôt de me définir comme blanc, une identité qui ne m’intéresse pas. La contribution à long terme de cette innovation explicitement racialement marquée à l’harmonie sociale était, comme le suggèrent à la fois la littérature sur le conflit ethnique et le bon sens, extrêmement douteuse, et le gouvernement a abandonné l’étiquette BAME en 2022 : son remplacement proposé, la « majorité globale » est, quoi qu’on en dise, plus problématique.
Les stratégies différentes de l’État britannique face aux émeutes des minorités ethniques, d’une part, et aux émeutes de la majorité ethnique britannique, d’autre part, sont, comme l’observent les commentateurs conservateurs de manière marquée disproportionnée. Cela peut ne pas être « juste », mais ce n’est pas censé l’être. La fonction de la police britannique face à ces tensions est de plus en plus de ne pas prévenir le crime — comme quiconque vivant en Grande-Bretagne peut le constater — mais simplement d’atténuer la violence interethnique, dans laquelle la population de la majorité ethnique en déclin est, comme le montre clairement la documentation, analytiquement l’acteur le plus évident et potentiellement volatile. Selon le sociologue John Rex, dont l’engagement en faveur d’une nouvelle Grande-Bretagne multiculturelle a été très influent durant les années quatre-vingt-dix, la tâche fondamentale de la gouvernance multiethnique est le désir double de « s’assurer que ceux qui viendront s’intègrent pacifiquement et que leur arrivée ne conduise pas à l’effondrement de l’ordre politique d’après 1945 ».
C’est, après tout, la logique de la « spontanéité contrôlée » : prévenir un retour de flamme face à des atrocités soudaines ou un sentiment généralisé d’insécurité qui détacherait la majorité ethnique du règlement post-Blair de la Grande-Bretagne et pourrait potentiellement mener à la formation de partis ethniques. En effet, la formation de partis explicitement ethniques est le facteur décisif dans ce que les universitaires appellent le passage d’une société pluraliste — dans laquelle le conflit ethnique est géré au sein de l’ordre politique existant, comme en Grande-Bretagne continentale — à une société pluraliste, où le système politique tourne autour des rivalités ethniques, comme en Irlande du Nord. Nous n’en sommes pas encore là, bien que la formation de groupes politiques en théorie musulmans (mais de facto pakistanais et bangladais) soit un pas dans cette direction, tout comme l’entrée de Reform au Parlement, comprise par les électeurs et les opposants de Farage comme un parti ethnique britannique tacite, bien qu’avec une forte tendance assimilationniste d’après-guerre plutôt qu’exclusionniste ethnique.
Mis à part l’alarme du gouvernement, le potentiel de violence ethnique sérieuse semble limité, car peu de facteurs précipitants listés par des spécialistes académiques existent : l’État britannique conserve un vaste pouvoir coercitif, des élites sympathiques aspirant à mener la mobilisation de la majorité ethnique n’existent pas, et, de toute façon, les divisions les plus vives sur la validité du groupe ethnique britannique restent au sein du groupe ethnique britannique lui-même.
Au lieu de cela, comme le battement quotidien de désordre violent si nouveau dans la vie britannique, mais désormais accepté comme la norme, des éclats occasionnels de violence ethnique, que ce soit actuellement par les Britanniques ou par d’autres groupes ethniques agissant dans leurs intérêts communautaires perçus, deviendront courants, comme dans d’autres sociétés diverses. Pour gérer de tels conflits, l’État deviendra plus coercitif, comme Starmer le promet à ses partisans. Mais la Grande-Bretagne moderne n’est pas l’enfer : en général, cela fonctionne, mieux que dans la plupart des endroits du monde, même si c’est beaucoup moins ordonné ou sûr que le pays dans lequel nous avons grandi. Il n’y aura pas de rupture violente, pas de nouvelle disposition radicale : les choses continueront comme elles sont, mais davantage. C’est la nature de la plupart des sociétés post-coloniales, et maintenant c’est la nature de la nôtre.
***
Cet article a été publié pour la première fois le 3 août. Il a été mis à jour le 5 août pour clarifier la chronologie de la loi sur les immigrants du Commonwealth de 1968.
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SubscribeI find it astonishing that any Russian could hold up a N*zi flag after what they did to the people of Russia (and the rest of the USSR)
Russians like Putin worship strength.
They wish they had it, and will follow anyone who displays it.
I’d be interested in what you mean by “strength”.
The ability to act unbounded by any constraints.
Indeed, as with the heirs of the Third Rome, opposition is seen as heresy, and therefore rebellion against the dictates of the Almighty.
Or as Russian supporters of Putin term all opposition:
“Satanism.”
“The ability to act unbounded by any constraints.”
I don’t think that’s indicative of the Russian personality. I can think of number of Russians who would not fit your idea of a people unbound by any constraints, unless you regard as unconstrained a love of their country and a memory of a country that goes back further than Communism. And opposition to what? Are Putin and the people of Russia the same? Russia has had many leaders, they are not the person who holds the reigns of power. In fact they are probably not so different from you, but with a longer history and a world of pain. You have conflated “Russians” and supporters of Putin and it doesn’t work. Their strength is the ability to survive.
A great many Russians accept that their nation should be unbounded by any constraints. That’s what drives Putin’s regime.
Indeed, any significant nation on their borders is deemed a grave threat to Russia. It must then be defeated. But when it is, Russia is confronted with another threat as great or greater.
If they take Ukraine, Poland and the Baltics will be seen as a “N*z*” threat that must be neutralized. Then it will be the Scandinavians and Germany. Then France and Britain. Unable to compete in other areas, Russia can only respond with force.
And that’s been the Muscovite dynamic for the last 800 years.
Luttwak describes the same phenomenon WRT the Roman Empire.
It never changes. It never CAN change, without a basic restructuring of the entire edifice.
Of course some Russians want something different. But explain exactly how they can do that.
All efforts so far have failed.
“A great many Russians accept that their nation should be unbounded by any constraints.”
You’re going to have to make that comment a lot clearer to convince me of anything like that. By the way, a Muscovite is someone from Moscow. That’s not necessarily indicative of Russia any more than Washington is indicative of America.
Edit: rereading your comment I see you did actually say “Russians like Putin” and “supporters of Putin.” But then you did go on to say “ a great many Russians”. So now I’m not quite sure who you mean.
Sorry, do you seriously think that any Russian’s opinion matters, except Putin’s?
Yes he has to worry about what people think. But as is always the case in Russia, he has the tools to crush any dissent.
…Until he doesn’t, and the cycle just begins anew, with a new autocrat.
Moreover, one cannot understand this war without understanding that the Russian federation goes back to Moscow, not Kyivan Rus.
The former stems from Mongol ways of governance, the latter from Slavic and North European traditions.
Muscovites (the people who prop up Putin’s regime) are fearful of any change, any deviation from the norm, whereas people from Ukraine are much more anarchic.
And have far better senses of humour.
Sorry, do you seriously think that any Russian’s opinion matters, except Putin’s?
Yes he has to worry about what people think. But as is always the case in Russia, he has the tools to crush any dissent.
…Until he doesn’t, and the cycle just begins anew, with a new autocrat.
Moreover, one cannot understand this war without understanding that the Russian federation goes back to Moscow, not Kyivan Rus.
The former stems from Mongol ways of governance, the latter from Slavic and North European traditions.
Muscovites (the people who prop up Putin’s regime) are fearful of any change, any deviation from the norm, whereas people from Ukraine are much more anarchic.
And have far better senses of humour.
“A great many Russians accept that their nation should be unbounded by any constraints.”
You’re going to have to make that comment a lot clearer to convince me of anything like that. By the way, a Muscovite is someone from Moscow. That’s not necessarily indicative of Russia any more than Washington is indicative of America.
Edit: rereading your comment I see you did actually say “Russians like Putin” and “supporters of Putin.” But then you did go on to say “ a great many Russians”. So now I’m not quite sure who you mean.
A great many Russians accept that their nation should be unbounded by any constraints. That’s what drives Putin’s regime.
Indeed, any significant nation on their borders is deemed a grave threat to Russia. It must then be defeated. But when it is, Russia is confronted with another threat as great or greater.
If they take Ukraine, Poland and the Baltics will be seen as a “N*z*” threat that must be neutralized. Then it will be the Scandinavians and Germany. Then France and Britain. Unable to compete in other areas, Russia can only respond with force.
And that’s been the Muscovite dynamic for the last 800 years.
Luttwak describes the same phenomenon WRT the Roman Empire.
It never changes. It never CAN change, without a basic restructuring of the entire edifice.
Of course some Russians want something different. But explain exactly how they can do that.
All efforts so far have failed.
“The ability to act unbounded by any constraints.”
I don’t think that’s indicative of the Russian personality. I can think of number of Russians who would not fit your idea of a people unbound by any constraints, unless you regard as unconstrained a love of their country and a memory of a country that goes back further than Communism. And opposition to what? Are Putin and the people of Russia the same? Russia has had many leaders, they are not the person who holds the reigns of power. In fact they are probably not so different from you, but with a longer history and a world of pain. You have conflated “Russians” and supporters of Putin and it doesn’t work. Their strength is the ability to survive.
The ability to act unbounded by any constraints.
Indeed, as with the heirs of the Third Rome, opposition is seen as heresy, and therefore rebellion against the dictates of the Almighty.
Or as Russian supporters of Putin term all opposition:
“Satanism.”
I’d be interested in what you mean by “strength”.
Well ok, isn’t it equally astonishing that they might hold up a Russian flag after what they’ve done to themselves over the years? And never mind the flags – is it not astonishing that the west is now drowning in Marxist doctrine once again even after its been repeatedly shown to bring poverty and horror to everything it touches? Seems we are all hell bent to relive the darker parts of history these days.
The power of the neo-Marxism lite (TM) is twofold – it’s American (and we all know that American is right wing, and classless, so they couldn’t possibly be Marxist); it’s Crap Marxism (I’m not sure whether Marx is rolling, laughing or crying in his grave), and we all know that crap sells.
<the west is now drowning in Marxist doctrine>
that’s a surprisingly pessimistic comment. Did I miss something? Examples?
Maybe pessimistic but not entirely wrong. I guess examples are going to depend on one’s perspective.
Is this a serious comment? You really don’t see the influence of Marxist post-modernist thought all around you? I guess the short answer is, yes, you missed something.
Maybe pessimistic but not entirely wrong. I guess examples are going to depend on one’s perspective.
Is this a serious comment? You really don’t see the influence of Marxist post-modernist thought all around you? I guess the short answer is, yes, you missed something.
But neo-Marxism in the West is also a joke outside of a few campuses.
As long as one can laugh at it, it’s no danger–anymore than Trump is a danger.
“But neo-Marxism in the West is also a joke outside of a few campuses.”
I don’t think that’s true. Laughing at something does not amount to resistance. Marxism may not be obvious but it’s infiltrated our institutions under the guise of a number of social initiatives. Your complacency is perfectly fine with those who work at it.
An unworkable system always collapses in the end.
The USSR, Trump, and soon our self-deluding campuses.
Where the latter ARE deluded I hasten to add. Just because academics avoid confrontations doesn’t mean they actually agree.
Just out of interest, why do you group Trump with Russia and the campuses?
All three are illiberal.
All three want to shout down–or on occasion, beat up–people who disagree with them.
The damage from Trump and the campus idiots is limited because, for now, rule of law still prevails.
Tweedledee, Tweedledum, and, in Trump’s case, Tweedledumber.
All three are illiberal.
All three want to shout down–or on occasion, beat up–people who disagree with them.
The damage from Trump and the campus idiots is limited because, for now, rule of law still prevails.
Tweedledee, Tweedledum, and, in Trump’s case, Tweedledumber.
Our economies are barely recognizable as capitalism anymore. And they are indeed collapsing … for anyone paying attention.
Just out of interest, why do you group Trump with Russia and the campuses?
Our economies are barely recognizable as capitalism anymore. And they are indeed collapsing … for anyone paying attention.
An unworkable system always collapses in the end.
The USSR, Trump, and soon our self-deluding campuses.
Where the latter ARE deluded I hasten to add. Just because academics avoid confrontations doesn’t mean they actually agree.
“But neo-Marxism in the West is also a joke outside of a few campuses.”
I don’t think that’s true. Laughing at something does not amount to resistance. Marxism may not be obvious but it’s infiltrated our institutions under the guise of a number of social initiatives. Your complacency is perfectly fine with those who work at it.
The power of the neo-Marxism lite (TM) is twofold – it’s American (and we all know that American is right wing, and classless, so they couldn’t possibly be Marxist); it’s Crap Marxism (I’m not sure whether Marx is rolling, laughing or crying in his grave), and we all know that crap sells.
<the west is now drowning in Marxist doctrine>
that’s a surprisingly pessimistic comment. Did I miss something? Examples?
But neo-Marxism in the West is also a joke outside of a few campuses.
As long as one can laugh at it, it’s no danger–anymore than Trump is a danger.
Every culture has its fair share of fascists, we we all know, even Jewish as has been widely documented. Radical political movements are a natural home for neuropaths everywhere.
Russians like Putin worship strength.
They wish they had it, and will follow anyone who displays it.
Well ok, isn’t it equally astonishing that they might hold up a Russian flag after what they’ve done to themselves over the years? And never mind the flags – is it not astonishing that the west is now drowning in Marxist doctrine once again even after its been repeatedly shown to bring poverty and horror to everything it touches? Seems we are all hell bent to relive the darker parts of history these days.
Every culture has its fair share of fascists, we we all know, even Jewish as has been widely documented. Radical political movements are a natural home for neuropaths everywhere.
I find it astonishing that any Russian could hold up a N*zi flag after what they did to the people of Russia (and the rest of the USSR)
As charming a bunch of thugs are you could hope never to meet.
There are two unanswered questions: how numerous are they, and how effective are they on the battlefield? Any twit can tote the ironmongery and look tough, but war has a habit of separating the men from the boys.
As charming a bunch of thugs are you could hope never to meet.
There are two unanswered questions: how numerous are they, and how effective are they on the battlefield? Any twit can tote the ironmongery and look tough, but war has a habit of separating the men from the boys.
Just a miniaturized version of Putin’s Russia.
Killing people on “enemies lists,” and separating children from their parents for adoption by Aryan…I mean Real Russian parents is no different than anything Hitler did. Indeed, taking Ukraine in 1941 was his main reason for expanding the war, just as it was for Putin in 2022.
The mobile crematoriums haven’t yet been used on people like Zelensky. But they certainly are used to “disappear” dead soldiers, whose families might otherwise claim compensation from the “Reich.”
This is a society slipping into a psychotic delusion, just as Germany did in the 1940s. It feels weak, and surrounded by enemies–enemies of its own making. Anything is now possible.
And some of those possibilities are worse than what Rusich wants.
Just a miniaturized version of Putin’s Russia.
Killing people on “enemies lists,” and separating children from their parents for adoption by Aryan…I mean Real Russian parents is no different than anything Hitler did. Indeed, taking Ukraine in 1941 was his main reason for expanding the war, just as it was for Putin in 2022.
The mobile crematoriums haven’t yet been used on people like Zelensky. But they certainly are used to “disappear” dead soldiers, whose families might otherwise claim compensation from the “Reich.”
This is a society slipping into a psychotic delusion, just as Germany did in the 1940s. It feels weak, and surrounded by enemies–enemies of its own making. Anything is now possible.
And some of those possibilities are worse than what Rusich wants.
A key figure in the Wagner Group, Yevgeny Prigozhin, has claimed to a Finnish newspaper that 20 or so Finns were fighting in a British battalion, commanded by a former United States Marine Corps general. There are not many former United States Marine Corps generals, so which one do we think that it is, and why? It is rubbish, of course. But just as you can bet your life that there are British and American Nazis fighting on the other side, you can bet your life that there are British and American pure mercenaries in the Wagner Group. We have no interest in whether that or the Kraken Regiment won, just so long as it did not bother us, which it would have no cause to do unless we had been foolish enough to have backed its enemy. Yet on a cross-party basis, Britain is indeed engaged in such folly.
Indeed.
And think how foolish the US was to back Britain in WW2. Simply allowing Hitler to dominate the European continent would have saved 10s of millions of lives. It was a crime far worse than anything NATO has done recently.
And Churchill’s refusal to enter real negotiations with Hitler was just as unconscionable.
How can the West bear the guilt of their aggression in WW2?
Can’t tell if you’re being sarcastic. Nazis meant to quite literally murder the entire world except those with Germanic descent, and even that last part is open to interpretation. I think they weren’t sure what to do about the French and the Italians for example. If Britain allowed a murderous monster to proliferate at its doorstep I don’t think the end would be good for anyone.
That was clearly sarcasm on Martins part
Oh, and the leader who ordered people to be tortured and killed once the Russian Army rolled into every capture Ukrainian town wasn’t doing the same thing?
A million Ukrainians have been exiled to Russia for “re-education” and/or confinement.
Once you say that Ukrainians can’t exist because they are “N*z*s, you have to start killing anyone who still claims to be Ukrainian.
It’s the only way to mobilize at least part of the Russian population against an external enemy.
That was clearly sarcasm on Martins part
Oh, and the leader who ordered people to be tortured and killed once the Russian Army rolled into every capture Ukrainian town wasn’t doing the same thing?
A million Ukrainians have been exiled to Russia for “re-education” and/or confinement.
Once you say that Ukrainians can’t exist because they are “N*z*s, you have to start killing anyone who still claims to be Ukrainian.
It’s the only way to mobilize at least part of the Russian population against an external enemy.
Of course, it was the Soviet Union that won the War in Europe. But the key point here is that there are Nazis on both sides. Neither need bother us. Unless we were foolish enough to back the other lot. Sadly, we are.
Stop falling for Cold War propaganda.
Russia’s offensives would have been impossible without half a million Ford trucks, 7000 aircraft, and 12,000 tanks and other vehicles. Their offensives would have culminated long before they made any decisive breakthroughs.
And after 1942, the Luftwaffe had almost entirely withdrawn from the Eastern Front to stop UK and US bombing. After that Russia had a free hand.
The contribution of each side to victory was about 50/50.
Indeed, that’s why HIMARs have stopped Russian advances since summer. The Russians can’t transport enough supplies to the front to launch a significant offensive.
Learn something about WW2–and the present war.
… and don’t forget the German tanks that were withdrawn to be sent to the Mediterranean, before the Battle of Kursk.
… and don’t forget the German tanks that were withdrawn to be sent to the Mediterranean, before the Battle of Kursk.
Stop falling for Cold War propaganda.
Russia’s offensives would have been impossible without half a million Ford trucks, 7000 aircraft, and 12,000 tanks and other vehicles. Their offensives would have culminated long before they made any decisive breakthroughs.
And after 1942, the Luftwaffe had almost entirely withdrawn from the Eastern Front to stop UK and US bombing. After that Russia had a free hand.
The contribution of each side to victory was about 50/50.
Indeed, that’s why HIMARs have stopped Russian advances since summer. The Russians can’t transport enough supplies to the front to launch a significant offensive.
Learn something about WW2–and the present war.
Of course, it was the Soviet Union that won the War in Europe. But the key point here is that there are Na*is (you can’t say the word in comments on a post about them) on both sides. Neither need bother us. Unless we were foolish enough to back the other lot. Sadly, we are.
One might even go so far as to say “The line separating good and evil passes not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties either — but right through every human heart.” Kind of takes the wind out of the whole, ‘their n*zis are worse than our n*zis” narrative.
The man who said that fought all his life against a totalitarian regime.
And while he thought Russia, Belarus and Ukraine should stay united, he said he would never send his son to fight against Ukrainians.
The difference between Solzhenitsyn and Putin is the difference betwixt Heaven and Hell.
The man who said that fought all his life against a totalitarian regime.
And while he thought Russia, Belarus and Ukraine should stay united, he said he would never send his son to fight against Ukrainians.
The difference between Solzhenitsyn and Putin is the difference betwixt Heaven and Hell.
One might even go so far as to say “The line separating good and evil passes not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties either — but right through every human heart.” Kind of takes the wind out of the whole, ‘their n*zis are worse than our n*zis” narrative.
Can’t tell if you’re being sarcastic. Nazis meant to quite literally murder the entire world except those with Germanic descent, and even that last part is open to interpretation. I think they weren’t sure what to do about the French and the Italians for example. If Britain allowed a murderous monster to proliferate at its doorstep I don’t think the end would be good for anyone.
Of course, it was the Soviet Union that won the War in Europe. But the key point here is that there are Nazis on both sides. Neither need bother us. Unless we were foolish enough to back the other lot. Sadly, we are.
Of course, it was the Soviet Union that won the War in Europe. But the key point here is that there are Na*is (you can’t say the word in comments on a post about them) on both sides. Neither need bother us. Unless we were foolish enough to back the other lot. Sadly, we are.
Indeed.
And think how foolish the US was to back Britain in WW2. Simply allowing Hitler to dominate the European continent would have saved 10s of millions of lives. It was a crime far worse than anything NATO has done recently.
And Churchill’s refusal to enter real negotiations with Hitler was just as unconscionable.
How can the West bear the guilt of their aggression in WW2?
A key figure in the Wagner Group, Yevgeny Prigozhin, has claimed to a Finnish newspaper that 20 or so Finns were fighting in a British battalion, commanded by a former United States Marine Corps general. There are not many former United States Marine Corps generals, so which one do we think that it is, and why? It is rubbish, of course. But just as you can bet your life that there are British and American Nazis fighting on the other side, you can bet your life that there are British and American pure mercenaries in the Wagner Group. We have no interest in whether that or the Kraken Regiment won, just so long as it did not bother us, which it would have no cause to do unless we had been foolish enough to have backed its enemy. Yet on a cross-party basis, Britain is indeed engaged in such folly.
“including depraved acts like killing a puppy,”
What am I meant to make of this statement? Is it the worst thing he’s done, is it the only thing they have on him. The story’s not really very helpful and certainly doesn’t enlighten me. I’d like a bit more depth about their activities besides being seen in a swimming pool and seeking information on NATO.
Follow the links (I did) all the way to source and you will find zero primary evidence for most of the really horrific allegations – puppy killing, being neo Nazis etc.
Of course, these are nasty, brutal people as any mercenary group would be. But this article is a caricature of western coverage.
There are primary sources and videos of both sides doing awful things – on the Ukrainian side, more so than the Russian in fact.
But western sources, fresh from Iraq and Libya, with Western weapons actively used even now in Yemen, having overlooked the Donbass atrocities since 2014, trying to pretend the Russians are morally inferior – is the precise reason the rest of the world views their campaign with contempt.
“Follow the links (I did)”
I did. In case it was missed I was being sarcastic. These stories are a sort of poolside war correspondence, where writers, far removed from events, scan the internet, finding a few references to individuals or events in other articles (also without reference to sources), then joining the dots in a way that suits their angle. There’s a lot of writing like this nowadays. Find a well known or historical figure, find some way to tie them to some fad or trend, make vague connections and leave conclusions vague and meaningless.
The dynamic in Donbas has been: one side shells, then the other responds.
As many people have died on the Ukrainian side as on the Donbas.
All Putin had to do was 1) allow blue helmets in to separate the two sides.
Or 20 declare Donbas part of Russia, like Crimea.
Instead, he chose to use it as a bargaining chip.
And when that failed, he chose to move on to the greatest failure of his life, and possibly the greatest failure in Russia’s history.
“Follow the links (I did)”
I did. In case it was missed I was being sarcastic. These stories are a sort of poolside war correspondence, where writers, far removed from events, scan the internet, finding a few references to individuals or events in other articles (also without reference to sources), then joining the dots in a way that suits their angle. There’s a lot of writing like this nowadays. Find a well known or historical figure, find some way to tie them to some fad or trend, make vague connections and leave conclusions vague and meaningless.
The dynamic in Donbas has been: one side shells, then the other responds.
As many people have died on the Ukrainian side as on the Donbas.
All Putin had to do was 1) allow blue helmets in to separate the two sides.
Or 20 declare Donbas part of Russia, like Crimea.
Instead, he chose to use it as a bargaining chip.
And when that failed, he chose to move on to the greatest failure of his life, and possibly the greatest failure in Russia’s history.
Follow the links (I did) all the way to source and you will find zero primary evidence for most of the really horrific allegations – puppy killing, being neo Nazis etc.
Of course, these are nasty, brutal people as any mercenary group would be. But this article is a caricature of western coverage.
There are primary sources and videos of both sides doing awful things – on the Ukrainian side, more so than the Russian in fact.
But western sources, fresh from Iraq and Libya, with Western weapons actively used even now in Yemen, having overlooked the Donbass atrocities since 2014, trying to pretend the Russians are morally inferior – is the precise reason the rest of the world views their campaign with contempt.
“including depraved acts like killing a puppy,”
What am I meant to make of this statement? Is it the worst thing he’s done, is it the only thing they have on him. The story’s not really very helpful and certainly doesn’t enlighten me. I’d like a bit more depth about their activities besides being seen in a swimming pool and seeking information on NATO.
Funny how war tends to bring out the worst in people. Reading this all I can think of is the brilliant line from “Breaker Morant” after Lord Kitchener lectures a subordinate about the motives of the enemy: “They lack our altruism, sir?”
Funny how war tends to bring out the worst in people. Reading this all I can think of is the brilliant line from “Breaker Morant” after Lord Kitchener lectures a subordinate about the motives of the enemy: “They lack our altruism, sir?”
Ok, maybe I’ve been desensitized to violence a bit somehow, but I did expect to read something more horrific than that there having read the start.
Duplicated
According to sources he cut “off its head and allegedly” ate it. It doesn’t say what part he ate, the body or head. So, yeah, quite a serious problem.
Puppy eh? We cut the heads off cute lambs and eat them.
In fact those who live ‘in the wild’ seem to view the personal slaughter of their food as more ethical than getting factories to do it and package it nicely.
I was thinking similar – that lambs are routinely killed and eaten, and even puppies are killed sometimes if no one will look after them. But then this seems less like a case eating food than an explicit display of cruelty.
There’s a massive difference between killing animals for food and doing so simply to prove how cruel you can be in my opinion
A downvote? So somebody believes there’s no difference between killing an animal to eat and killing one out of sadism clearly
You can get downvotes here not because of your comment but because they didn’t like what you said about another article.
But I’m upvoting you today Brett!
But I’m upvoting you today Brett!
You can get downvotes here not because of your comment but because they didn’t like what you said about another article.
A downvote? So somebody believes there’s no difference between killing an animal to eat and killing one out of sadism clearly
I was thinking similar – that lambs are routinely killed and eaten, and even puppies are killed sometimes if no one will look after them. But then this seems less like a case eating food than an explicit display of cruelty.
There’s a massive difference between killing animals for food and doing so simply to prove how cruel you can be in my opinion
Puppy eh? We cut the heads off cute lambs and eat them.
In fact those who live ‘in the wild’ seem to view the personal slaughter of their food as more ethical than getting factories to do it and package it nicely.
Duplicated
According to sources he cut “off its head and allegedly” ate it. It doesn’t say what part he ate, the body or head. So, yeah, quite a serious problem.
Ok, maybe I’ve been desensitized to violence a bit somehow, but I did expect to read something more horrific than that there having read the start.
This is ridiculous! A Russian, let alone a Russian patriot, would never allowed it to be photographed holding / promoting a Nazi flag or any other German Nazi symbol. I am afraid you’re completely ignorant of how and what the Russian public, even 80 years after WW2, thinks of Hitler, German Nazis and the WW2, which, by the way, they call “the Great Patriotic War”.