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Why the Left needs ‘institutional racism’ Their dogmatic approach makes sensible analysis impossible

A pupil in East London (Photo by DANIEL LEAL-OLIVAS/AFP via Getty Images)

A pupil in East London (Photo by DANIEL LEAL-OLIVAS/AFP via Getty Images)


April 1, 2021   4 mins

The law of the instrument — or “Maslow’s hammer”, as it is sometimes known — has become an indispensable tool for negotiating the current world. It holds, as Abraham Maslow said in 1966, that “it is tempting, if the only tool you have is a hammer, to treat everything as if it were a nail”.

In recent decades, this law has held firm nowhere so much as in the business of “race relations”, where one hammer in particular has been on very public display: the casual accusation of “racism”. Allegations of racism have for decades been among the most serious accusations that can be made against a person; likewise, since the publication of the Macpherson report into the murder of Stephen Lawrence, an allegation of “institutional racism” has been the most serious accusation that can be made against an organisation.

With this in mind, it was perhaps inevitable that, by virtue of their potency, such accusations would end up being wielded as a substitute for evidence. And so for years, to set up an investigation into an institution on matters to do with race was to pre-ordain the outcome: the institution always had to be found guilty.

So the list of institutions that have been subjected to accusations of institutional racism has come to encompass almost every corner of British public life. The Church of England has been described as “institutionally racist” by no less a figure than the Archbishop of Canterbury. It is in good company, along with the The National Trust and the entire “British countryside”.

Of course, the problem with these accusations is not just their inaccuracy or predictability. The problem is that they distract from any genuine, meaningful attempts to investigate the complex issues of race in Britain. It is, therefore, fortunate that a new report ordered by the British government following the Black Lives Matter protests last year has shown it is possible to buck this trend.

Indeed, the report of the Commission on Race and Ethnic Disparities, published yesterday, is proof that we can do without Maslow’s hammer. Its findings are nuanced and well-researched; it concludes that while Britain is not an entirely “post-racial” society, the success of much of the ethnic minority population “should be regarded as a model for other white-majority countries”. It also details how certain ethnic minorities are driving high educational achievement for children, and that this in turn is creating fairer and more diverse workplaces.

All in all, despite its acknowledgement that more work needs to be done, the report paints an encouraging portrait of race relations in Britain. And yet, predictably, this news has not gone down well in all quarters. While conceding that he had not yet read the report, Labour leader Keir Starmer said that he found it “disappointing”, because there is still “a reluctance to accept that that’s structural”. For his part, Starmer has invested heavily in the “racism is institutional” narrative, and so of course it must be deeply unsatisfying for someone to suggest that any remaining issues cannot simply be solved by, for instance, “taking the knee”.

The same applies to Rehana Azam, the national secretary of the GMB trade union. Before the report was even released, she did what any campaigning union leader might be expected to do. Fulsomely quoted in the headline of a Guardian report, and elsewhere, Azam managed to accuse the Commission’s findings of “gaslighting” and “ignoring black and ethnic minority workers’s worries and concerns”, of being “cynical”, “irresponsible”, “immoral” and more. “Institutional racism exists,” said Azam, and is “the lived experience of millions of black and ethnic minority workers”. Her evidence? That ethnic minorities are dying in greater numbers from Covid.

Her allegation, like the question of educational attainment, is a fine example of the problem of the hammer approach. For if it is the case that specific demographics are disproportionately likely to die from Covid, then there might be a variety of reasons for that. It could have something to do with underlying health conditions in those communities; or with the type of jobs members of that community disproportionately perform; or even with their household arrangements and social habits. Members of Britain’s Orthodox community, for example, have been accused of flouting lockdown rules by continuing with mass-participation events. If the statistics show a larger uptick in Covid-related deaths in the Orthodox community, then might such social factors be at least a part of the explanation? The answer, of course, is “yes”.

But if you have only one tool — and that tool is “institutional racism” — that can never be the case. If you have already decided on the explanation for the problem, any attempt at sensible analysis is impossible.

Nowhere are the effects of this doctrinaire approach more pernicious than in the area of educational attainment. In the past, differentials in educational attainment were put down by some to genetic factors; the outperformance of a particular racial group was explained by making reference to the genetic superiority of one group over another. For reasons to do with inaccuracy as much as unpalatability, this explanation has declined in popularity. But if someone today were to enter a discussion wielding the hammer of genetic traits, we would all be able to see what they were doing: rather than being interesting in discussion, their conclusion had already been decided.

Today, with its emphasis on “institutional racism”, a new all-purpose tool has come into existence. But as anyone can see from the evidence provided in the Commission’s report, certain groups do outperform other groups — but this doesn’t necessarily point to “racism”. It notes, for instance, that “the average GCSE Attainment 8 score for Indian, Bangladeshi and Black African pupils were above the White British average”. It is the same with the issue of an alleged “pay gap” between ethnic minorities and the white majority population. The Commission’s report says that this pay gap did exist, but that it has shrunk to 2.3%. It further concludes that in 2019, among the under 30s, there was no significant pay gap between any ethnic minority group and the white majority in work.

This is in line with what a range of sociologists and commentators have tried to point to in recent years: namely, that where disparities do still exist in Britain, they might be explained by a whole range of factors, including social class and family structure. As the Commission concludes, “some of the disparities we examined, which some attribute to racial discrimination, often do not have their origins in racism”. And so it’s no wonder that so many self-proclaimed “progressives” have responded to the report with such fury. After all, the one tool that they have wielded to solve every problem, both real and imaginary, is in the process of being prised carefully from their hands.


Douglas Murray is an author and journalist.

DouglasKMurray

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Paul Blakemore
Paul Blakemore
3 years ago

The more I read of Dr Tony Sewell’s report the more impressed I am. The authors write: ”Our views were formed by growing up in the 1970s and 1980s. And our experience has taught us that you do not pass on the baton of progress by cleaving to a fatalistic account that insists nothing has changed. And nor do you move forward by importing bleak new theories about race that insist on accentuating our differences. It is closer contact, mutual understanding across ethnic groups and a shared commitment to equal opportunities that has contributed to the progress we have made”. I suppose as someone who also grew up in the 70s and 80s I find it sad that the tremendous progress that has been made is ignored by today’s ‘social justice warriors’. Terrific stuff. Also the report’s conclusion that factors such as family structure, class, socio-economic background, culture and religion have a greater ”impact on life chances than the existence of racism”… To many here it is simple common sense: but it’s like a bomb planted under the entire ‘woke’ position on race.

Simon Denis
Simon Denis
3 years ago
Reply to  Paul Blakemore

Intellectually, it is certainly a bomb; politically it is no more than a small grenade, thanks to the left wing echo chamber which calls itself “journalism”. And because much of the influential, metropolitan left now hunkers down in a concrete bunker of totalitarian certitude, they won’t feel it at all. They’ve invested too much in nonsense, formed too many stupid habits of mind, suppressed free enquiry and generous laughter for too long to be rescued with facts and figures. In short, we have raised a barbarous, ignorant, angry generation. All the more reason, then, to act as fast and as ruthlessly as possible to deprive this generation of power for as long as we can. And in the meantime we should strip back the law, cut down the so-called “universities” and shrink the propaganda / surveillance state to minimal proportions. But Johnson is scarcely man enough to speak, let alone act.

Starry Gordon
Starry Gordon
3 years ago
Reply to  Simon Denis

Intellectually, it is certainly a bomb; politically it is no more than a small grenade, thanks to the left wing echo chamber which calls itself “journalism”.

I think you’re giving far too much credit to the powers of name-calling. I’ve been on the Net a long time; in its early days, I started compiling a list of epithets applied to me, of which I’m sure ‘racist’ must have been near the top. But, like ‘fascist’ or ‘liberal’ or ‘feminist’, the word has been used so hard it doesn’t mean much of anything any more. One can’t help wondering, then, why people take it so seriously and get so excited about it. Can it be that they suspect themselves of secret sin? What do they think it means, if anything? It’s hard to tell.
Most of you don’t seem to know what ‘Left’ and its derivatives mean, either, or used to mean, but it doesn’t seem to pose as much of a problem. I can tell you, though, that if you keep throwing it around mindlessly you wear it out, too.

Natalija Svobodné
Natalija Svobodné
3 years ago
Reply to  Starry Gordon

“Most of you don’t seem to know what X means”
Um, I think usually it’s better to just say your opinion of what x means, and not say “I know, but you don’t…understandably it annoys people when others do that :p Having said that I like that you chat and have ideas… 🙂
In this case Left (classic liberal) means this to me, meaning less government is better…But to complicate it I also believe in a safetynet- for a short amount of time, so people can get out of trouble, if no family or friends can help, and free healthcare and if possible education – although that horse has galloped) But as you can see trying to put people into boxes with labels is pretty hard…and probably of little worth to do so.
I’m a very strong believer in human rights and equality based on our humanity (not sex, race or religion)
Progressive left means undermining human rights to delegate rights based on group membership to categories….To me this is very like apartheid. and not a path worth pursuing in the long run.
The greatest inequalities are usually government mandated through policy, through “special privileges” Because with everyday people we can negotiate around inequality. If its government mandated not so!

Last edited 3 years ago by Natalija Svobodné
Don Gaughan
Don Gaughan
3 years ago
Reply to  Starry Gordon

A Pyschology Today article quoted a study which revealed conservatives are far more certain of their views than liberals are.
Behind the facade of certainty of monopoly of truth and moral superiority, there is hidden inner sparks of doubt and conflict .
The bizzarre emotional response to outside dissent and thr vigorous suppresion of any and all dissent seems to be the behaviour of a posturing tyrant with insecurity of their dogma beliefs they are forcefully imposing on others and the entire western civilisation.

Last edited 3 years ago by Don Gaughan
Hilary Tait
Hilary Tait
3 years ago
Reply to  Don Gaughan

I put my own people before any other race or ethnic group. I have no inner spark of doubt or conflict. Multi-culturalism is imposed on me, and the entire western civilization, which will cease to exist at some point in the future. That’s nice that Western countries can provide a home for everybody. Which countries, apart from the West, are following a similar policy?

Dan Martin
Dan Martin
3 years ago
Reply to  Hilary Tait

Who are “your” people? Those who are genetically closer to you than others? Or those who are ideologically closer to you than others? I find this comment not only disgusting, but baffling. If those who are in your ethnic group or race have diametrically opposed political views to you, are you saying they are more your people than those who look different but share the same beliefs?

Hilary Tait
Hilary Tait
3 years ago
Reply to  Dan Martin

Be baffled no longer! My people are the British, and more widely, the Europeans, so yes, those who are genetically closest to me. You find the world disgusting, because that is how the non-Western world thinks too – proof here:
How racial groups rate each other (ljzigerell.com)
I love my own children more than other peoples’ too, even though they’re not the “best” by any measurable standard. They’re mine.

Lee Jones
Lee Jones
3 years ago
Reply to  Hilary Tait

You have captured the very essence of identitarian philosophy…

Cheryl Jones
Cheryl Jones
2 years ago
Reply to  Lee Jones

I would say that it is the most fundamental of human philosophies. Denying the hard wired propensity for humans to be tribal and to show in-group preference, especially kin relationships, is naive and flies in the face of evolutionary reality. I am actually proud that recent years have enabled some progress in that area to be more inclusive and open – but it is fragile indeed.

kathleen carr
kathleen carr
3 years ago
Reply to  Don Gaughan

Pyschologists and councillors have said for years that parents who constantly criticise their children are wrong as it creates a ‘give a dog a bad name syndrome’. The critics who don’t care for this report seem to wish to spread a virtual mass criticism-see interesting response by MP Clive Lewis

htm1958
htm1958
3 years ago
Reply to  Starry Gordon

Agree. When I am called a racist, because I say that there are differences between various groups of people, then so be it, and I am a racist. Differences in colour are very visible, other less visible differences (character, intelligence, social) also exist. It is only wrong to treat groups differently legally or socially because of these differences.

george_zoe
george_zoe
3 years ago
Reply to  Starry Gordon

The repercussions of being described as racist are far worse and very serious.

Dan Martin
Dan Martin
3 years ago
Reply to  Starry Gordon

“Left” is a descriptive label, not a pejorative. There is no equivalence between me labeling a person as a member of the Left and him labeling me as a racist or fascist.

Lee Jones
Lee Jones
3 years ago
Reply to  Starry Gordon

Or can it be that some people are so enamoured by their own opinions and feelings that they have become desensitised to the fact that others might have them too.

Natalija Svobodné
Natalija Svobodné
3 years ago
Reply to  Simon Denis

Thank goodness the majority of people from most ethnicities probably are more fair minded than the media and academia! Sure, it makes most people at odds with the Militant Activists, Government and Media – But we can vote and not support newspapers!
Like you I’m tempted to defund universities, and I am certainly keen to see them sued for human rights abuses! All students deserve a non hostile environment to learn as equals, in a respectful and nurturing atmosphere.
I think the main task now as everyday people (the media won’t do it, or the schools) is to educate people and share facts that rebut bad arguments with facts. and really get the public talking and thinking. Not just reacting to the emotion of arguments without understanding our own history. And really our historical understanding of slavery is ridiculous and entirely eurocentric.(mostly for ideological reasons)But this has to stop. Slavery was worldwide and culture wide – So no student should have the right to feel virtuous or as if their culture was an innocent, all the while attacking others…It should be a moment to appreciate human rights and understand the pitfall of unmitigated power over others. something no culture is blameless in.
Thomas Sowell is my favorite so far, and rebuts fully the idea of slavery as a white institution or in anyway related to Racism. We aren’t perfect, but on the history of slavery we turned the corner and improved lives for millions world-wide including cultures that were resistant to abolishing it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWrfjUzYvPo

Gillian Johnson
Gillian Johnson
3 years ago

Thank you for the link to the excerpt read from Thomas Sowell’s book.

Natalija Svobodné
Natalija Svobodné
3 years ago

Share the link lots <3 The more people that know history the better!

Dennis Lewis
Dennis Lewis
3 years ago

Well said, Natalija, with this and your comment above in response to Starry Gordon. It’s good to see that more people are discovering the work of Thomas Sowell.

Ben Morris
Ben Morris
3 years ago
Reply to  Simon Denis

You think THIS is not an echo chamber? And you want to deprive “this generation” of power? Which generation is that? This really is a place of frothing nonsense, and I nominate you a grade one frother.

Simon Denis
Simon Denis
3 years ago
Reply to  Ben Morris

Mindless abuse from the left. Plus ca change…

Tobye Pierce
Tobye Pierce
3 years ago
Reply to  Simon Denis

He made your point rather well, I think.

Paul Blakemore
Paul Blakemore
3 years ago
Reply to  Ben Morris

But what do you think about Douglas Murray’s article? Do you refute the conclusions reached by the report of the Commission on Race and Ethnic Disparities? On what basis precisely? Below you describe it as ”self-congratulatory”. Do you not think amazing progress has been made since you were a teenager? Do you disagree with its recommendations for tackling the racism that it clearly acknowledges does exist?

Last edited 3 years ago by Paul Blakemore
Hilary Tait
Hilary Tait
3 years ago
Reply to  Paul Blakemore

Who cares whether Britons are racist or not? I put my own people first. I acknowledge and embrace my “racism” and simply don’t care.

Paul Blakemore
Paul Blakemore
3 years ago
Reply to  Hilary Tait

That’s your choice, but if different ‘races’ are all taking a pop at each other cities in Britain and elsewhere will soon become war zones; though I acknowledge that some US cities seem to have arrived there already.
The concept of ‘my own people’ is an interesting one too: why is that determined by skin colour? I would generally be classified as ‘white’ I expect, though I’ve never felt myself to be particularly white. I grew up with people of other ‘races’ that were more ‘my own people’ than many of the white folk I encountered.

Hilary Tait
Hilary Tait
3 years ago
Reply to  Paul Blakemore

I certainly don’t advocate “taking a pop” at anyone because of their race. My own parents didn’t take a pop at anyone, they simply left (Birmingham) in 1968 as they saw the writing on the wall for the indigenous people. They simply no longer felt at home. They hated no one, nor do I. However, no previously Western country is left untouched by the multi-culture project, and we will fast run out of places to retreat to. With birth rates in our boots, and our economies based on a seemingly endless increase of consumers, supplied by immigration and the offspring of immigrants, we will end up as ethnic minorities feeling as if we are living in a foreign country. Although you consider that other races are like, or even more like, your own people, I can assure you that this feeling is not reciprocated (yes, I can supply evidence of this if required). Skin colour is just one of the many indicators of race – you are suggesting that mere skin colour is the only difference – not so. Human nature is tribal – this ensures the survival of the group. Darwin called this “group selection”, while Aristotle referred to this blood bond as “Philia”, noting that multi-ethnic societies were fragmented and chaotic. As Westerners have rejected natural group selection, they will eventually die out/be absorbed into the various ethnicities. The multi-culture that then occupies those spaces will slug it out amongst themselves for a dominant group – you’re starting to see this already in the USA, as you pointed out, but also in Britain. We will only see so much before the end of our respective lifespans. I find this process horrifying for my people, but admit amusement when the multi-culture go at it hammer and tongs. Light multi-cultural fuse and stand well back!

Alex Delszsen
Alex Delszsen
3 years ago
Reply to  Hilary Tait

and you lose cultural diversity, meaning how one society feels different and new from another.
Americans are used to come-ons from men in public, or intimidation in public areas. I was in Germany before the great migration, and German men might let their eyes wander with the slightest look to the side if an amazingly beautiful woman walked by. By 2019, getting harassed by the newest migrants was a too common experience.
when people do not come all at once, they try to fit in with the culture already living there. Now there were lots of men from loverboy cultures.
the nosedive for women feeling safe in the streets sadly nosedived.
that German hard to tell when they were flirting vibe is there, but the tone of public behavior is now new, and sadly, new visitors will accept as normal.

Last edited 3 years ago by Alex Delszsen
Lee Jones
Lee Jones
3 years ago
Reply to  Hilary Tait

But, if you believe in your own culture and community and also participate in it, it will not die out, it will endure. If you only see your community and culture as merely something that is different from ‘them’ it will. Having a distinct culture does not mean that you cannot have meaningful (positive) relations with other cultures. Surety that proximity with other cultures will destroy your own portrays a rather dismal mindset. It almost sounds like you are accepting it is not robust enough to survive any ‘contamination’. Which is, I think, not really a reflection of life in the U.K., a country that historically has cultures that differ from village to village, town to town, nation to nation etc. and yet still in almost a thousand years only had one civil war predicated on ideology. I think you sell your culture short…

Last edited 3 years ago by Lee Jones
Ted Ditchburn
Ted Ditchburn
3 years ago
Reply to  Paul Blakemore

I think the Critical Race Theory/white fragility thing is deeply unhelpful, as is the connected idea that progress has not been made.
I am glad the recent report seemed to get back to common-sense.
I think multiculturalism has been a disaster: Respect other cultures and people for sure, but many people who came here, from Uganda Asians onward came because they were often wanting to getaway from a culture of intolerance, repression, quashed opportunity, inequality TO the UK.
The funniest moments on the old Question Time would always come when a recent immigrant asked their opinion on this or that, would start spouting things that were more *Gammon* in the eyes of ‘progressive’ left-wingers than anything said by the conservatives in the audience or on the panel..

Jos Haynes
Jos Haynes
3 years ago
Reply to  Hilary Tait

There are a lot of white people who are absolutely horrific and a lot of darker skinned peiple who are absolutely charming. How can you group your friends on the basis of skin colour? Perhaps you are confusing race and culture?

Last edited 3 years ago by Jos Haynes
David Morley
David Morley
3 years ago
Reply to  Ben Morris

Yes, it is becoming a bit of an echo chamber, though most people still back up there positions with argument and sometimes evidence. How do we avoid that? It seems to be everywhere. And arguably there is now a bit of an Unherd herd.
I’d be more than happy to see some opposing arguments well made, and indeed, try to do so myself on occasion. Go for it.

Jeff Carr
Jeff Carr
3 years ago
Reply to  Simon Denis

I read that 80% of ‘tweets’ are produced by 2% of the population. Now there is a minority echo chamber if ever there was one. Yet the media seem to think it is representative of public opinion.

Natalija Svobodné
Natalija Svobodné
3 years ago
Reply to  Jeff Carr

Touché I read that 80% of laws are produced by 2% of the population, Yet the media seem to think it is representative of public opinion?
It’s possible i’m being facetious though ;P It happens.

Last edited 3 years ago by Natalija Svobodné
Jeff Carr
Jeff Carr
3 years ago

🙂 😉 And the laws are adjudicated by an even smaller proportion of the population.

Natalija Svobodné
Natalija Svobodné
3 years ago
Reply to  Jeff Carr

hehe we have to laugh so we dont cry 😛

Jos Haynes
Jos Haynes
3 years ago

What does this -:P – mean?

Jon Redman
Jon Redman
3 years ago
Reply to  Paul Blakemore

Has anyone called Tony Sewell an “Uncle Tom” yet? It can’t be long coming.

David B
David B
3 years ago
Reply to  Jon Redman

I’ve seen it multiple times on cesspits such as Reddit.

Paul Blakemore
Paul Blakemore
3 years ago
Reply to  Jon Redman

I was just reading Matthew Syed in The Sunday Times. He mentions that Priyamvada Gopal has compared Sewell to Goebbels, while Labour MP Clive Lewis ”tweeted a picture of a Ku Klux Klan grand wizard standing before a burning cross with the words #RaceReport”.
The left are just so utterly vile… The only good thing being I suppose that it repels most ordinary, decent people and prevents them voting the left into power.

Chris Scott
Chris Scott
3 years ago
Reply to  Paul Blakemore

And as usual it’s been denounced by almost every commentator in the Guardian. According to HalimaBegum under the headline The verdict on the Sewell report into racial disparity, she says ‘…[it] is nothing short of an insult.’ Kalwant Bhopal Bhopal basically says the report is a ‘whitewash’. Predictable. Of course, it doesn’t fit the narrative they’re pushing. I often wonder if it’s worth reading the Guardian; I can guess what they’re going to write before I get out of bed in the morning.

Last edited 3 years ago by Chris Scott
clem alford
clem alford
3 years ago
Reply to  Chris Scott

Yes, I got canceled in the comments section of the Independent today. So much for free speech and exchamnge of ideas.

Natalija Svobodné
Natalija Svobodné
3 years ago
Reply to  Chris Scott

“I often wonder if it’s worth reading the Guardian”
I finally blocked them on my computer – No clicks! No Advertising, No income, It’s the best I can do…After all there are better more middle of the line newspapers and I got tired of their incredibly lopsided coverage, and can’t think of any other way to “punish” them.
It’s a shame though since I believe in free speech…but since my clicks fund them… what else can a person do
I wish there was an outside moderation process… for fact checking and bias that stamped articles with a moderated rating and added the missing arguments to highlight gaps in reporter coverage, and logical fallacies on every website! Just like a restaurant to have a AAA+ rating. There’s more safety checks about what we put in our stomachs than what we put in out heads. The food for our minds should also be good and well balanced.
If wishes were fishes…

Last edited 3 years ago by Natalija Svobodné
Robin Lambert
Robin Lambert
3 years ago

They are NOT on My Microsoft News I blocked them & The so called Independent,with its Woke Sanctomoniuos tone..Guardian founded by Cotton Magnate & Slave supporter John Edward Taylor

Don Gaughan
Don Gaughan
3 years ago

The Guardian is a one sided leftist extremist propaganda political pamphlet.
However, its interesting to see the mindset descending into myopic dementia ,and to understand the voice of the progressive tyranny, in order to dispute it, defeat it and liberate the free democracies from it.

Natalija Svobodné
Natalija Svobodné
3 years ago
Reply to  Don Gaughan

Oh I used to like communism, so I’ve heard alllll of Guardians arguments before… So I’m quite familiar with both sides of the arguments ;P They aren’t original enough to come up with anything more interesting. Just more of the same old (as if nothing ever actually got better)… No I’m happier without them. I enjoy good long format nuanced news…More in the center neither right or left – “its-not-good-to-trust either-so-lets-hear-it-all” kind of news!
hehe but good luck you have more patience than I!

Last edited 3 years ago by Natalija Svobodné
Fraser Bailey
Fraser Bailey
3 years ago

Yes, I simply stopped even going to the Guardian site some time ago. In doing so you only give them clicks and, indirectly, a tiny bit of cash. I am aware that they do still have a couple of good writers, but I just can’t bring myself to go there – and I was someone who was still buying the printed edition until around 2010.

Jim Gerlach
Jim Gerlach
3 years ago

The Guardian is left?!? Sorry, across the pond it’s what I read to get a sense of balance. I always thought it was center-right. When the items on your menu are Fox News on one side and NY Times/CNN on the other, The Guardian is quite refreshing.

Jos Haynes
Jos Haynes
3 years ago
Reply to  Jim Gerlach

You have your own Guardian – The New York Times. Both ludicrous

Dennis Lewis
Dennis Lewis
3 years ago
Reply to  Jim Gerlach

Jim, come on! You’re surprised to discover that the Guardian is considered by many to be a leftist rag? I mean, come on, mate. Do you carefully read their articles?

Jayne Lago
Jayne Lago
3 years ago
Reply to  Chris Scott

So true Chris, but it doesn’t just belong to the Guardian. You can add all of mainstream TV news channels (bring on GB news) and Question Time, that other immensely predictable programme. Panorama and now we have the kids in school (Pimlico Academy) ALL singing from the same hymn sheet! Who wants to bet there will be protests all around the country demanding the head of Tony Sewell and others! Not sure how all the leftie activists are going to be able to attend all these ‘perfectly well behaved protests’ when there will be so many!

julian.davies1961
julian.davies1961
3 years ago
Reply to  Chris Scott

The G has definitely got worse over the years. I think one still needs to read it, but, like listening to the BBC, one learns to anticipate the message, and to “aim off” accordingly.

Alex Mitchell
Alex Mitchell
3 years ago

The response from the race hustlers was all too predictable. Facts be damned, we think it’s there so it must be. Of course, this makes them look in all the wrong places for their solutions, which does more harm than good.
Viewing from overseas it doesn’t seem like the uk government is exactly firing on all cylinders, but their resistance to unfettered wokeness is to be applauded.

James Rowlands
James Rowlands
3 years ago
Reply to  Alex Mitchell

Alex, such a quaint old fashioned notion that facts still trump feelings.

Fraser Bailey
Fraser Bailey
3 years ago
Reply to  James Rowlands

Well it’s more a case of facts not being allowed to trump sinecures and salaries. The feelings are faked because without race to grift off these people would have to do something useful or productive, and they would not be able or willing to do that.

Allie McBeth
Allie McBeth
3 years ago
Reply to  Fraser Bailey

Yes, there’s a whole raft of grifters in the race industry, not about to lose their ‘marks’ that easily.

Ben Morris
Ben Morris
3 years ago
Reply to  Allie McBeth

Name ten.

Chris Scott
Chris Scott
3 years ago
Reply to  Ben Morris

Robin diAngelo, BBC (and not the Russian one), NYT, The Guardian, The Independent, Diane Abbott, Mr and Mrs Smug aka Los Merkle’s, HalimaBegum, Remi Joseph-Salisbury, Afua Hirsch (who spends time trashing the UK at every opportunity) and Priyamvada Gopel. As I’ve said before, whilst there is undoubtedly racism, these people are being a little disingenuous of their criticism of the UK when all you have to do is step out of the UK and see blatant in-your-face racism that I’ve experienced in the US, continental Europe and South American. The UK may not be perfect but it is bending over backwards to accommodate people from very different cultures.

Last edited 3 years ago by Chris Scott
Annette Kralendijk
Annette Kralendijk
3 years ago
Reply to  Ben Morris

Robin DiAngelo (author of White Fragility)
Regina Jackson and Sairo Rao (own a business called Race to Dinner where White people pay to attend dinners at which they are berated by the two)
Al Sharpton
Meghan and Harry Windsor
Jesse Jackson
Barack and Michelle Obama
Jussie Smollett (staged a fake hate crime)
Nathan Phillips (the Covington kids Native American who claimed he was the victim until video showed he was the aggressor)
That’s 11 and that’s just off the top of my head. There are hundreds of racial hate crime hoaxes in the US, going all the way back to Tawana Brawley. And she makes 12.

Dennis Lewis
Dennis Lewis
3 years ago

Your list is generally accurate, but I disagree with you on the Obamas. Though I’m not a fan, I don’t believe that they’re race grifters. But the others on your list, most definitely. I checked out Race to Dinner online, and I couldn’t believe it! There are people who actually pay thousands of dollars to attend dinners where they have to sit and listen to a couple of women tell them about how racist they are. I’m surprised that you didn’t mention Ibram X. Kendi, a particularly astute grifter who made it to Time’s 100 Most Influential People list. His toxic influence has now spread from academia to the corporate world.

Don Gaughan
Don Gaughan
3 years ago
Reply to  Ben Morris

Woke Ben got a fact based answer to his rhetorical question,and note how he ” responds”.

Fraser Bailey
Fraser Bailey
3 years ago
Reply to  Ben Morris

There are at least 10 at the Guardian alone. And hundreds at the BBC.

Starry Gordon
Starry Gordon
3 years ago
Reply to  Fraser Bailey

There is always a basis for grifting.

Tom Fox
Tom Fox
3 years ago
Reply to  James Rowlands

You should have heard Lord Woolley on the Today Programme this morning. Pure anecdote and no challenge from the interviewer.

David B
David B
3 years ago
Reply to  Tom Fox

The MSM has been somewhat co-opted sadly.

Tobye Pierce
Tobye Pierce
3 years ago
Reply to  David B

Somewhat? Understatement at it’s best! Sad though.

David Brown
David Brown
3 years ago
Reply to  Tom Fox

The BBC is little more than the broadcast wing of The Guardian, with the main difference being that if we want to watch any television at all, we have to fund it.

Grant Evans
Grant Evans
3 years ago
Reply to  David Brown

Nonsense.What you mean is neither are explicitly right wing………the only media alternatives

Paul Mayes
Paul Mayes
3 years ago
Reply to  Alex Mitchell

I think the UK govt is firing on more cylinders than many other World govts in these difficult times.

David Morley
David Morley
3 years ago
Reply to  Alex Mitchell

The response from the race hustlers was all too predictable. Facts be damned, we think it’s there so it must be. 

It won’t change dogmatic minds. Nothing does. But it will change the space in which they are arguing. Claims will need to be backed up, not simply asserted. And their positions will look more nakedly ideological.
Who will be first to claim that this report only goes to show how deeply racist the U.K. is?

Fraser Bailey
Fraser Bailey
3 years ago
Reply to  David Morley

My money is on Afua Hirsch.

Eleanor Barlow
Eleanor Barlow
3 years ago
Reply to  Fraser Bailey

Lol! If racism didn’t exist, Hirsch would invent it. Otherwise,what else has she got to offer that could lead to the well paid employment she currently enjoys? Sweet FA.

clem alford
clem alford
3 years ago
Reply to  Eleanor Barlow

Absolutely. I am an ethnic minority in London being an elderly white Brit male!! Where is my representative organization with a big government grant?. Didn’t even get any benefits from Covid!!

Starry Gordon
Starry Gordon
3 years ago
Reply to  clem alford

Need an org? Start one. I joked to a young Black activist that I had six strikes against me, being an upper-middle-class older cis het White male. She laughed and promised to protect me.

Annette Kralendijk
Annette Kralendijk
3 years ago
Reply to  Starry Gordon

I promise you, that is not what she was actually thinking.

Hilary Tait
Hilary Tait
3 years ago
Reply to  Starry Gordon

They will not protect you.

michael harris
michael harris
3 years ago
Reply to  clem alford

In London he might well be. Certainly if he goes out onto the street. But, Ben, do you know the statistics? Or should Clem ‘feel’ he is not in the minority?

Fred Atkinstalk
Fred Atkinstalk
3 years ago
Reply to  clem alford

In London he is. Check your facts.

Douglas McNeish
Douglas McNeish
3 years ago

His truth; his lived experience.

Douglas McNeish
Douglas McNeish
3 years ago
Reply to  clem alford

But you are here, thankfully.

Natalija Svobodné
Natalija Svobodné
3 years ago
Reply to  Eleanor Barlow

Have to agree there! and watching the way they move stats on Rape and Poverty – its as close as they can get to inventing more crime…so they can keep funding and the job.
Over the past 35 years, the rate of rape in the U.S. has fallen by an astonishing 80 per cent. The views of women are far better than anything we have ever had!, yet anti-rape organizations convey an impression that women are in more danger than ever! PLus the definition of rape has changed to a very very low bar.
Having sex and regretting it later is not being sexually assaulted. Agreeing to sex you weren’t 100 percent sure you wanted to have is not being sexually assaulted. Having consensual sex under the influence of alcohol is not being sexually assaulted…
But now it is…

Last edited 3 years ago by Natalija Svobodné
Douglas McNeish
Douglas McNeish
3 years ago
Reply to  Fraser Bailey

Or any disciple of D’Angelo’s White Fragility ready to “educate” us that denial of racism is the surest indication of its presence.

Paul Wicks
Paul Wicks
3 years ago
Reply to  David Morley

Kehinde Andrews already saying it.

clem alford
clem alford
3 years ago
Reply to  Alex Mitchell

The race relations industry is a shame. Even Trevor Phillips said it.

Robin Lambert
Robin Lambert
3 years ago
Reply to  clem alford

Shame or Sham or both.The ”grievance” industry never sleeps hates to be Challenged

Alison Houston
Alison Houston
3 years ago

Why do we have to reject the idea that we are racist, why not accept it and embrace it and assert our right to enjoy our long settled culture, traditions and history?

If musical notation is ‘racist’ so be it, if the music of Mozart is ‘racist’ so be it. If Georgian architecture is racist, so what? Nobody cares, let morons be offended and oppressed by beauty and intelligence.

The time has come to stand up to the bullying, not to keep rolling over. We should say yes, our long established western and British traditions, our history, our culture our thought processes are connected to this place and the people who settled here many centuries ago. Just as your history and traditions and culture are related to the place your antecedents inhabited. We are fully entitled to our culture, traditions and to learn from our history in this place, just as your antecedents are entitled to theirs in their place. Political leaders were wrong to impose our traditions on the country of your antecedents, but two wrongs don’t make a right. You do not have the right to impose your culture and traditions in this place, as your antecedents chose to come here you must accept the place as it is.

We have given much more than enough ground already. Britain must not become a hideous porridge of all the worst aspects of tribal Africa, the Middle East, Pakistan and India. Time to stop saying we aren’t racist and to say our ‘racism’ is the means by which we hold fast to that which is good, those values of fairness and and equality before the law, which had existed for centuries before your antecedents arrived and many of which were the reason they escaped here in the first place.

David Morley
David Morley
3 years ago
Reply to  Alison Houston

Why do we have to reject the idea that we are racist, why not accept it and embrace it and assert our right to enjoy our long settled culture, traditions and history?

I understand what you are saying, but you are conceding too much in accepting a ridiculously wide definition of racism. The whole idea needs to be rejected, that if you don’t disparage your own culture and heritage you must be racist.
Racism is when you disparage everyone else’s.

Starry Gordon
Starry Gordon
3 years ago
Reply to  David Morley

Actually, racism is a political theory which depends on three cardinal principles: (1) There are physical races; (2) some races are better than others; (3) the better races should act to rule the lesser or lower ones. There is really no objective basis for the first principle, so in effect ‘race’ does not exist except as a social convention. Unfortunately, the social convention proved very useful to those promoting imperial projects and was carefully nurtured, developed deep cultural roots, and will be hard to get rid of. But I would not accept designation as a racist unless you accept the principles of the ideology, which very few people actually do, even if they have a sneaking suspicion they and theirs are somehow considerably better than everyone else.

Natalija Svobodné
Natalija Svobodné
3 years ago
Reply to  Starry Gordon

Perhaps it depends where you learn political theory…
Racism as a consequence of ideology.
Racism from strong social dominance orientation.
Racism from group interests.
And Racism from ideological conservatism.
The four variations of Racism are closely associated with particular scholars…and their particular theories on racism (or at least as I understand it)

David Morley
David Morley
3 years ago
Reply to  Starry Gordon

There is really no objective basis for the first principle, so in effect ‘race’ does not exist except as a social convention. 

True in a sense, and false in a sense. Read DavidReich on the genetics.

Natalija Svobodné
Natalija Svobodné
3 years ago
Reply to  David Morley

DNA reveals what skin color obscures: We all have African ancestors. And we are Human
…Well debatable with some politicians…. ;P

Last edited 3 years ago by Natalija Svobodné
Alex Wilkinson
Alex Wilkinson
3 years ago
Reply to  Alison Houston

Always agree with you Alison. Keep it up.
Am I a white supremacist? No, I’m just white.

John Nutkins
John Nutkins
3 years ago
Reply to  Alex Wilkinson

Me too.

Pauline Ivison
Pauline Ivison
3 years ago
Reply to  Alex Wilkinson

Absolutely right. And, yes, Alison is spot on, as usual.

Ben Morris
Ben Morris
3 years ago
Reply to  Alison Houston

26 likes for this piece of racist vileness. what a website this is.

Jonathan Marshall
Jonathan Marshall
3 years ago
Reply to  Ben Morris

I’d like to think you were being ironic but I rather fear you’re absolutely serious, poor lamb.

Galeti Tavas
Galeti Tavas
3 years ago
Reply to  Ben Morris

And -8 for you, maybe not every one supports the anti-White racists.

Pauline Ivison
Pauline Ivison
3 years ago
Reply to  Ben Morris

I actually feel sorry for you…such a closed mind.

David B
David B
3 years ago
Reply to  Ben Morris

How is it racist?

Ben Morris
Ben Morris
3 years ago
Reply to  David B

She actually says she wants to accept the word racist, as Steve Bannon urged. This place is a sewer.

Natalija Svobodné
Natalija Svobodné
3 years ago
Reply to  Ben Morris

She wants to accept the word racist based on a poor argument… Not through actual racism.(that’s my opinion)
But if you can spot the racism and intent of maliciousness in her comment, I’d love to hear your opinion.
Otherwise I can only discredit your answer as an Intentional misrepresentation, because it is easier to defeat than an opponent’s real argument.
And worse still you attack the character, and motive of the person without evidence as to racism, Again! rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself.
This is not a healthy way to talk with people, or examine ideas.

Last edited 3 years ago by Natalija Svobodné
Brian Dorsley
Brian Dorsley
3 years ago
Reply to  Ben Morris

What’s racist about it? Whether I agree with it or not, I found that she worded her opinion quite politely. What are your views? Your comment doesn’t make clear what you stand for.

Last edited 3 years ago by Brian Dorsley
Jon Redman
Jon Redman
3 years ago
Reply to  Ben Morris

Specifically which parts are “racist vileness”?

Ben Morris
Ben Morris
3 years ago
Reply to  Ben Morris

Hopp along, dimwit.

Jos Haynes
Jos Haynes
3 years ago
Reply to  Ben Morris

You are obviously completely out of your depth here. Why not try Twitter? More to your level, methinks.

Jayne Lago
Jayne Lago
3 years ago
Reply to  Ben Morris

Why are you on here then?

Jon Redman
Jon Redman
3 years ago
Reply to  Jayne Lago

To signal virtue, to preach, and to scold.

John Nutkins
John Nutkins
3 years ago
Reply to  Alison Houston

Well said.

Natalija Svobodné
Natalija Svobodné
3 years ago
Reply to  Alison Houston

“Why do we have to reject the idea that we are racist, why not accept it and embrace it and assert our right to enjoy our long settled culture, traditions and history”
Race and culture are two seperate things. We can and should assert Secular based human rights, it maximises the amount of people that can be happy and free, it doesn’t rely on race either anyone from anywhere can have those values, Some of our traditions are also lovely and should be celebrated!
I’m not a racist for asserting those two things, And neither are you! so I don’t accept the epithet of racism in any form. But fight back with reasons as to why they are wrong! (So real racism still has a meaning, and good people don’t get lumped in with them to camouflage them)
Certainly everyone is tribal, and prefer to be grouped by interest, religion, sport, education, belief. Race matters little and adds little intrinsic value (but probably there people who still group people that way, either by preference or distain) – We do group – its natural! It’s what we do with that grouping that counts!
Racist architectural style…The georgian style architecture is inspired from our captors the Romans who AD 43 to AD 410 conquered us and apart from taking slaves, they gave us central heating, glass, roads, concrete, water powered milling machines, Aqueducts, sewage system, writing, numbers, philosophy, democracy…Without them we would have stayed illiterate tree huggers, moving boulders to line with the sun. When the Romans left our standard of living dropped and we lost the skill of glassmaking, central heating etc, it took us another 400 years to regain that level of skill and human capital. In short those buildings inspired us.
Political leaders were wrong to impose our traditions on the country of your antecedents I disagree they did this to stop slave trade in societies that resisted the closing of the slave markets – enough was enough!!
Slavery was done by every culture over millennia. And yes the West had slaves for a long time in its history! Including enslaving its own population!
However only the West, late in its history defeated slavery world wide – Other cultures just did not care about it!
THOMAS SOWELL – THE REAL HISTORY OF SLAVERY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWrfjUzYvPo

Last edited 3 years ago by Natalija Svobodné
Galeti Tavas
Galeti Tavas
3 years ago
Reply to  Alison Houston

We need to get some sort of National Scoring system in place where every Nation is studied on its contribution to global Art, Science, Maths, Philosophy, Literature, Theater, Freedom, Politics, Equality, Medicine, Charity, Education, Suffrage, Rule of Law, Agriculture, Freedom, Noble Prizes Won, and on and on.

Then one may only act with pride in ones people according to the score given. Naturally a British Person may hold the greatest pride in themselves and Nation of any on Earth. And it would not be racist as it would be documented and proven. Yes, we are better than everyone else, we could say by showing our score, and the racism industry would have to concede we are correct.

Natalija Svobodné
Natalija Svobodné
3 years ago
Reply to  Galeti Tavas

i’m not sure your list counts. Most are subjectively valued items! (As much as I love them!) They would have little relevance to other cultures because of geographic location, lifestyle, resources/ social beliefs and structure.
This is a human capital game of shared knowledge and experiences, of which give a culture the knowledge to survive and grow… Some countries were isolated, didn’t trade or come into contact with other ideas, They aren’t stupid because they don’t have a Parthenon or theater though! So
I think we should enjoy other cultures inventiveness, every culture survives in a world that is harsh! and all survive in different ways – take a city dweller into the desert – will they survive crossing it? We are specialised to patterns that work for us. we produce what works for us – some things work differently and some things are better.
One thing the west does better in my opinion is cooperate and work together and adopt new technology and thoughts readily, we are also lucky with our location close to other inventive cultures, so its easy to innovate and swap tech. Human Capital gains quickly…
we make cities that give all inhabitants broad equal rights and protections along with a quality of living, And this is where I believe our fight for democracy, and equal human rights have helped us to make cities and far less corruption, more rights and transparency for all citizens!
Rulers we have a say over! We can kick them out every 4 years! Having said that it is only my theory so far… But all the things we have are a result of that willingness to share and think of others circumstances.
Plenty of other countries with extraordinary wealth kept by only a few, and leaders are tyrants.
I think that could be a universal gift to others, just as we learnt this gift from the romans who in turn learnt if from the greeks.
I think we are not better in everything! But that this is the one thing that makes a difference to make life better for the majority of people regardless of sex race creed.

Last edited 3 years ago by Natalija Svobodné
Hilary Tait
Hilary Tait
3 years ago
Reply to  Galeti Tavas

We need to tell the boatloads of Africans that your list is meaningless. They must turn back now! And also, race is a social construct.

Terry M
Terry M
3 years ago
Reply to  Alison Houston

A better way to put this is to remember that all species have an instinctual ‘prejudice’ for close relatives, members of a local community, and members of their species, in that order. Humans are also saddled with this instinct for ‘in-group’ preference. It is a mark of the civilizing of humans that we can overcome this instinctual tendency that we judge to be wrong. Some take this so far as to call us ‘species-ists’ for favoring humans over animals.
Humans have many instincts that we need to consciously overcome in the name of ethics and morality. Rape is one. Male animals of many species ‘rape’ the females. This behavior is instinctual and has evolutionary benefits – the male’s genes get transmitted to the offspring. Humans have instituted many restrictions around male sexual aggressiveness to curb this immoral behavior, from marriage to burkas to jail sentences.
So, yes we are all born ‘racists’ in one sense. Education and civilization have squeezed the racism out of our species to a very great extent, but it will never be completely exterminated, as it is part of human nature.

Jon Redman
Jon Redman
3 years ago
Reply to  Terry M

Your race is just your extended family.

Starry Gordon
Starry Gordon
3 years ago
Reply to  Terry M

Well, humans could push tribalism to the point of completely exterminating themselves. That would solve the problem.

Hilary Tait
Hilary Tait
3 years ago
Reply to  Terry M

Any race who ‘overcomes’ their instinctual in-group preference will die out. You are watching this now in terms of Western Europeans, but it is in slow-motion, and there is only so much each of us will see in our respective lifetimes. You can fool yourself that you can, or have, conquered Nature, but She will win in the end.

Natalija Svobodné
Natalija Svobodné
3 years ago
Reply to  Hilary Tait

“Race – instinctual in-group preference”
I disagree…In-group preference isn’t limited to Race, or at least not limited so superficially! 
We are all mixtures of DNA of many races. Take a DNA test and see! The West is not homogeneous block – it is a mixture of many races and tribes!
Group preference is based often on other considerations. What genetics you come into contact with! “Race” is created with population movements, trade, war, exposure to other cultures and those mixtures.
Race is irrelevant – Culture however is more important, it is the glue of society! Culture is race agnostic! – Culture is the vehicle for ideas and values that all people can have and attain.
E.g an Saudi can have the same appreciation for human rights that I do.(For example Raif Badawi)  This is possible because Culture and race are of course different things. (perhaps culture is like a virus…the idea catches us, With the right idea we can be innoculated against bad cultural practices…)
So how does culture affect us?…The Cultural achievement Democracy: created by the Hellenic race. The amazing thought the common people should have a say! – Rather than be ruled by god like rulers, where citizens could only obey.
This cultural idea moved from the Hellenic race, to the romans then to roman colonies, then the world – It wasn’t bound to one race – it’s cultural! An idea that lasted longer than its own empires.
This applies now to Human rights another very precious gift! “Equal because of my Humanity, not because of my sex, race, religion or lack of religion.”
It’s not a fight about Race, but a fight about human rights – everyones worth as humans. Ensuring special interest groups don’t reformulate that idea to become something weaker and less effective – or worse something that benefits only a few.
In short culture is under attack, not our race!

Last edited 3 years ago by Natalija Svobodné
Hilary Tait
Hilary Tait
3 years ago

In-group preference isn’t limited by race to Europeans – that’s exactly my point. You are projecting how you feel onto all other races, and making huge assumptions that they can or will feel the same way about you. That’s fascinating that you use the Romans as an example, as they followed the same pattern that we now follow, namely, failing to breed and becoming a multi-culture. A democracy is only as good as its demos. Without the shared ethnic bonds of Philia, a democracy will become less democratic. An example, is the adoption in Britain (and other Western countries) of hate speech laws – more rigid authoritarianism is needed to keep the people under control. I am limited for time right now!

Natalija Svobodné
Natalija Svobodné
3 years ago
Reply to  Hilary Tait

Hillary do a DNA test 🙂 were all mixtures!
“Any race who ‘overcomes’ their instinctual in-group preference will die out”…”I put my own people before any other race or ethnic group”
…but perhaps I am not understanding you…? own people It’s quite vague. So I guess I’m curious how you define that in-group…
This sounds like a call to only mate with those who are ethnically alike, and that the wests problems because of…foreigners? But again In-group, how are you defining that?
I apologize if that’s not what you mean – well writing is never a great way to communicate is it! People can get confused!
You seem to make little consideration that its actually culture that is more important, race is after al a social construct as you point out! The level of melanin/ethnicity is really a very uninformed way to understand a person’s character or values in regards to human rights.
And no, not I’m not confused or projecting… Western human rights are a small rare gem in a world where those values are absent Where slavery, religious intolerance, and inequality and freedom of thought are apparent and the predominant view of other cultures, So I’m just as keen as you to see the west survive and thrive, and uphold those precious values. But being ethic X doesn’t mean you are culturally X
“Without the shared ethnic bonds of Philia, a democracy will become less democratic.”
Ethnic bonds make no impact on democracy human rights and the security of a country. There are many ‘homogenous’ populations that have had civil wars and uprisings… Indeed The UK with “shared ethnicity” enslaved the majority of its population for millenia and battled with itself – due to diverging ideas on culture, belief and human rights values.
I believe the burning of protestants and catholics was quite popular…

But then it comes back to how you are defining phillia / in-group, i’m still fuzzy on your definition…
“A democracy is only as good as its demos.”
I totally Agree!
It only works if the demos share basic precepts such as equal human rights based on common humanity regardless of sex race or religion. Such a thing is ethnically agnostic. And should be a prerequisite for life in the west! Lest it lead to tyranny of the masses.
Hate speech and blasphemy laws
I do agree on your abhorrence to hate speech and blasphemy laws – however the source of those were through a UN resolution and not your internal voters, who incidentally fought that resolution, and yes it does hi-light the need to be vigilant with human rights! with good leadership…(of which we are poorly lacking)
If we look at UN – and the increasing amount of anti-democratic countries that have voting power – well it causes me to be watchful and skeptical of the ability of the UN to uphold human rights.
I view our low birth-rate as more connected to the economy, and the very severe pressures on familys to provide for children in order to best prepared them for the future, Kids need increasing amounts of education to cope.
All while parents are struggling to find time, Work weeks get longer… Let alone the career interruption and effects on pension and old age poverty. (which make the impact of having a child a very real consideration) Let alone the current world trends in job stability, and the looming danger of AI. Plus the instability of being a globalised workforce, who have to move at a moments notice I’m away from all of my family, and live year to year on contract, so having a kid is not optimal, and probably won’t happen.It’s possible too I worry too much about providing all of that.

Peace.

Last edited 3 years ago by Natalija Svobodné
Hilary Tait
Hilary Tait
3 years ago

As it happens, I have done a DNA test, and am a bit of an amateur family historian. My DNA test shows me to be 100% European (being 98.1% British, and 1.9% Northwest Germanic). These results indicate what my group is. I understand myself to be descended from Celts and Germanic people originating from the Bell Beaker people of the Lower Rhine, similar groups who came to Britain at different times. I define my in-group as British, and then more widely, as European.
Experiments have shown that people will sacrifice more for those most closely genetically related to them, and that what they are willing to sacrifice will reduce as genetic proximity reduces. For example, I would readily sacrifice my own life for that of my children. This is how some Westerners, and most of the non-Western world operate. Have you heard the acronym WEIRD before? – Western, Educated, Industrialized, Rich and Democratic. Westerners are unique and view the world in a unique way. The data shown here may open your eyes to just how different we are:
How racial groups rate each other (ljzigerell.com)
Yes, on a certain level, we are all mixtures. I even had my mother-in-law’s DNA tested as a Christmas present. She was 1.5% North Wales. The regional history content on the LivingDNA website noted the genetic uniqueness of the Welsh: “The survival of Welsh is in part a result of Wales’ segregated past, owed to its mountainous environment, and lack of linguistic influence from the Anglo-Saxons.” Because the Welsh were able to maintain a relative segregation, we are able to celebrate their diversity today, instead of their genetic, cultural, and linguistic diversity being merely absorbed into an English homogeneity (obviously not in the case of my mother-in-law!).
Perhaps another example could be the Japanese, who share some of their genes with the Yayoi migration from the Korean Peninsula.
I do not think that race is a social construct, I’m afraid that I must have said that with some sarcasm, which doesn’t translate well as the written word. When human remains are found, forensics are able to determine whether the bones are Black, White, or Asian – not socially constructed at all. I did leave a comment to that effect, but it was immediately labelled as needing some sort of oversight by the website (perhaps because I used the scientific terms, ending in -oid).
Yes, the English had inter-tribal conflict – which set them up for defeat at the hands of the Romans and other groups. The Maori of NZ, and Native Americans, behaved in a similar fashion, so this is universal. It would have been better strategy to come together against outside threats.
I call people to mate with whomsoever they wish to mate with, however I’m thoroughly sick of the constant barrage of advertisements and film showing mixed race couples. I’m sure there’s no agenda there (there goes the sarcasm again).
“the wests problems because of…foreigners?” The following link is a meta-analysis of studies of diversity, which I hope will be of interest:
v1.0 – Biological Ethnocentrism, The Negative Impact of Racial and Ethnic Diversity Upon Societies and Individuals [Final] (catbox.moe)
“Ethnic bonds make no impact on democracy human rights and the security of a country.” Yes, they do. I gave the example of the introduction of hate speech laws, and wonder how this advances our rights – it doesn’t of course, it erodes rights that we previously had. Out of curiosity, I’d like to live long enough to see the English go to minority (estimated to be about 2066) and see what happens to their armed forces. Like the country, it may just be a gradual transition – however, many is the time I’ve read comments to the effect that the writer would never fight for their country as it is today even when not in an ethnic minority. I endorse such comments.
Regardless of whether a country has “equal human rights based on common humanity regardless of sex race or religion” inequalities between racial groups will arise (that is because race and racial differences are real, and group selection is real, for example, Indians will generally hire their own once in a position to do so). The inequalities that arise will provoke conflict. This is a problem that was blindingly obvious and need not have come about.
Progressives Declare War on Asians, Meritocracy and STEM – Asian Dawn (asian-dawn.com)
The reason that Western countries have undemocratically adopted multi-culturalism is because it keeps wages and conditions down, not because it fulfils some sort of human rights agenda. I don’t see the need for the West to take responsibility for spreading human rights, or anything else, to the rest of the world. Black and brown people are quite capable of determining their own futures.

Hilary Tait
Hilary Tait
3 years ago

Hi, I have posted a reply, but it has come up with an “Awaiting for approval” notice – I have no idea why.

Aaron Kevali
Aaron Kevali
3 years ago
Reply to  Alison Houston

“We have given much more than enough ground already. Britain must not become a hideous porridge of all the worst aspects of tribal Africa, the Middle East, Pakistan and India. Time to stop saying we aren’t racist and to say our ‘racism’ is the means by which we hold fast to that which is good, those values of fairness and and equality before the law, which had existed for centuries before your antecedents arrived and many of which were the reason they escaped here in the first place.”
Ouch! Comment of the month here, good for you Alison.

kathleen carr
kathleen carr
3 years ago
Reply to  Alison Houston

There is also the problem of perceived to be racist. I went to see my usual GP ( about 2 years ago) and instead there was a young black doctor who I didn’t know . On a later occassion I had to refer to this doctor ( whose name I didn’t know) and I honestly wondered if it was illegal for me to call her black ( in order to describe her )-fortunately the receptionist knew who it was.

Jayne Lago
Jayne Lago
3 years ago
Reply to  kathleen carr

I am old enough to know when the N word was used to describe a member of an ethnic group. That changed, the word black was used for some time until it was deemed insulting. Then there was another outcry and a request from the ethnic groups, to be termed ‘coloured’. Now it would appear that ‘coloured’ is not acceptable and that we should use ‘black’. Is it any wonder we are in this mess?

kathleen carr
kathleen carr
3 years ago
Reply to  Jayne Lago

The new ‘correct’ word is BIPOC.

Pagar Pagaris
Pagar Pagaris
3 years ago
Reply to  Alison Houston

But to agree with you would be to deny the precept of cultural relativism on which our whole inter racial society is based. Orchestral music can have no more intrinsic value than the output of a black man banging a bongo drum in the jungle.
To suggest that it might have is necessarily racist.

Natalija Svobodné
Natalija Svobodné
3 years ago
Reply to  Pagar Pagaris

which is better? ” Orchestral music vs bongo drum in the jungle.”
Well to be fair “better” in this case is entirely subjective. Both are music, Much like I prefer Mozart to Elevator music.
Cultural relativism annoys me on things that are not only different but measurably better.
For example roman numerals are different, but certainly they are less effective for the purpose of counting and doing equations with for that we would use Arabic numerals – Because they are less prone to error, they do the job better, and far more efficiently.
But with relativism, we are not allowed to make a value judgement on the effectiveness of the other system. This is simply dishonest ego massaging!
The same to with sciences vs traditional cures… so on and so on. What achieves the purpose with more effect and precision is obviously better!

Last edited 3 years ago by Natalija Svobodné
peers.lilian
peers.lilian
3 years ago
Reply to  Alison Houston

Well said Alison. If people want to enter our Island Nation, they should be prepared to accept our cultures, language and if they want to practice a different religion don’t try to foist it on the indigenous population. Dress as we do which is suitable for the climate in which we live. I would say that over the years, I am 86, I have noticed that ethnic minorities are speaking English with an English accent, which in itself will help to integration.

Igor Sagdejev
Igor Sagdejev
3 years ago
Reply to  Alison Houston

Alison… you know that the countries you list are your Dearest Commonwealth Family! The Family to whom the Leavers have appealed to vote for Brexit, early on in the Referendum campaign (that almost made me throw up). Of course, it was from Poland, Lithuania, Romania, and Bulgaria that the “worst aspects” were coming from 🙂

Wilmot Britt
Wilmot Britt
3 years ago
Reply to  Alison Houston

Britain, and the West in general (especially America), need to allocate their attention bandwidth elsewhere instead of courting “diversity” and the issues which naturally arise from it. Reports about academic success may show that the U.K. is doing integration better than others, and oftentimes you will hear of minority contributions to the economy (which are mixed, given what Murray shows in “The Strange Death of Europe”), but the social aspects and long-term consequences are almost never discussed because it runs against the narrative. The U.S. is case and point of what happens in these long-term social experiments. “Wokeness”, for instance, could exist in a homogenous nation. You could have a bunch of self-flagellating Whites running around dwelling on the ills of colonialism, but it inevitably gains more traction if an aggrieved party resides within your walls (e.g. Blacks). Many of America’s political and cultural problems are the result of roughly 60-120 years of demographic shifts that the natives got no say in. In the process, the definition of an American has whittled away and even “Heritage Americans”–those worried about preserving a national identity–have little uniformity in how they describe it, besides talking points about freedom. Conservatives like Charlie Kirk have described the country as a “placeholder of ideas”. Well, excuse me, but how does a multicultural, multiracial nation of “ideas” survive a stress test? It doesn’t and that’s why it’s fraying at the edges and has been for many years. I see this happening in Britain and it’s a scary proposition.

Natalija Svobodné
Natalija Svobodné
3 years ago
Reply to  Wilmot Britt

“You could have a bunch of self-flagellating Whites running around dwelling on the ills of X”
“X” is just a way for person y to achieve a new social status or right. Yep we’ve only done that a few million times in history!.. Sometimes for good, sometimes for ill…
Virtue-signalling as a route to social status, isn’t even new. Unfortunately it collides with the wests eurocentric view on the slave trade (Which all cultures did – but we don’t get taught! So lack the skills to rebut a lot of false information.
So it’s the perfect storm, of not sticking up for equality and failing to appreciate the freedoms we have and won. (and secured for others)
All through not knowing history.

Last edited 3 years ago by Natalija Svobodné
Natalija Svobodné
Natalija Svobodné
3 years ago
Reply to  Wilmot Britt

“Heritage Americans have little uniformity in how they describe what America is.”
I’ve alway felt this was a little bit of the slide of hand question – I doubt you could ever get consensus on what a country is. A country is a subjective experience for every inhabitant… But I wonder if there is more luck to say: What a country isn’t.
The majority would agree on the values they want to cherish: isn’t sexist, racist, opposed to other religions, or freedom to speech.
At least in IMO, It’s the things we don’t want that should align.

Last edited 3 years ago by Natalija Svobodné
Jayne Lago
Jayne Lago
3 years ago
Reply to  Alison Houston

Brilliant……..but I think it is too late! Watch what happens now about the Tony Sewell report. There are NO consequences for your actions today. We see it in schools, industry, local government , universities and also the race issue. I cannot think of one person in any party, that is prepared to challenge the wokeraty, the students, the blm supporters, the ext rebellion clowns, the LBGT and Trans groups, The Me too brigade or the general mob culture that appears to have become one long gang of miseries!

Jayne Lago
Jayne Lago
3 years ago
Reply to  Alison Houston

You still here?

Jon Redman
Jon Redman
3 years ago

At the moment there are literally no consequences to anyone who levels a smear of racism. None at all. You can call anyone white a racist without fear of any comeback. This has to end.
We need a few commissars of the race grievance industry to be charged with criminal libel or slander the next time they accuse someone of racism, and when found guilty, jailed for a suitably long time; eight to ten years, perhaps, with little chance of parole because of the high probability of reoffending. David Lammy, Diane Abbott and their ilk would be good candidates. Meanwhile, the likes of the Runnymede Trust should be prosecuted with the full force of the law – the ones on terrorist financing would suit quite well.

J J
J J
3 years ago
Reply to  Jon Redman

The thing that depresses me most about the radical Left is they have given cover to people like you. I can assure you the author of this article and most of the people in the country do not support people like you.

Last edited 3 years ago by J J
Mel Shaw
Mel Shaw
3 years ago
Reply to  Jon Redman

It won’t happen, of course, but the Charity Commission should investigate what charitable purpose the Runnymede Trust actually serves. Perpetuating and encouraging racial divisions doesn’t qualify in my book.

John Nutkins
John Nutkins
3 years ago
Reply to  Jon Redman

Well said. Add Dawn Butler and the infantile and utterly stupid 24-year old black MP for some Nottingham constituency who recently said, having seen the news of the mindless and abominable mob wrecking parts of Bristol and attacking the police, that she was waiting for more evidence that there had been any any rioting.
These lamentable creatures and their like do more to stir up racism in this country, by which I mean blacks like them saying I and the rest of the country are racist. It is grossly insulting, utterly mendacious, offensive in the extreme and divisive to the core!

M Dibley
M Dibley
3 years ago
Reply to  John Nutkins

These comments are just as nakedly divisive and – yes – racist, as those you purport to stand against. The other side of the very same coin. The race grifter industry is just as ethnically diverse as any other dissection of UK society, and characterising it as ‘blacks saying I am the rest of the country is racist’ is plain wrong.
I’m all for higher penalties for false accusations of racism, such as well-enforced and high-cost fines, but criminal action and jail time for words? That’s dangerous territory and, again, just the other side to widespread assault on free speech we seem to be experiencing in the early part of the 21st century.
Dr Tony Sewell and many others like him have it 100% correct that the only way to reduce racism is to – quite simply – stop viewing the world through the distorting lens of race (and grievance studies) and focus on your own individual merits. And that we must do away with this damaging myth of ‘institutional racism’ in order to tackle the multi-faceted origins of the very real class-based disparities in this country.

Last edited 3 years ago by M Dibley
Jon Redman
Jon Redman
3 years ago
Reply to  M Dibley

Er, wakey-wakey: you can already do “jail time for words” under both the defamation and hate speech laws. I am merely suggesting that existing laws be enforced, in a non-racist way, by charging people with a criminal offence where they have deliberately defamed someone with the casual accusation of racism. This is the gravest smear possible, and is always a bid to destroy the targets’ lives.
The next time some smart ar5e “comedian” says that Boris Johnson is a racist, or some repellent student activist says that Jordan Peterson is, that individual should be criminally charged with libel. They can, if they wish, then plead Not Guilty, and produce their evidence of racism to a jury, offering the defence of truth. If they can’t persuade the jury, they are convicted.
Criminals of this sort should also be very heavily fined in addition. This particularly nasty libel is always intended to ruin someone’s life, so we need a few examples where the life ruined is that of the libeller.
It is utterly unacceptable that there should be laws criminalising hate speech against ethnic or religious minorities, but none that punish hateful speech dressed up as self-righteous accusations of racism. A court managed to conclude David Irving was a racist. I don’t see David Lammy presenting much of a challenge.

Last edited 3 years ago by Jon Redman
Arnold Grutt
Arnold Grutt
3 years ago
Reply to  Jon Redman

You cannot be ‘charged with libel’. It’s a civil, not a criminal matter. The police cannot arrest you, and the courts cannot hear the case until a private citizen lodges a complaint on his/her own behalf.

Last edited 3 years ago by Arnold Grutt
Jon Redman
Jon Redman
3 years ago
Reply to  Arnold Grutt

That can change.

Natalija Svobodné
Natalija Svobodné
3 years ago
Reply to  Jon Redman

charging people who defame others with the casual accusation of racism…
That will only work and be fair if Racism is seen as something all races can do! – With the new definition of the word (popular with leftists progressives – it is defined as prejudice combined with social and institutional power) Meaning only white people could be charged!
But of course we know the original meaning is more accurate – “prejudice against a person on the basis of ethnic group” Meaning everyone can be racist.
Orwellian games with language.designed to limit the individual’s ability to think and articulate “subversive” concepts such as personal identity, self-expression and free will… and in this case to muddy the concept that all races can be equally evil and bigoted.

Last edited 3 years ago by Natalija Svobodné
Grant Evans
Grant Evans
3 years ago
Reply to  Jon Redman

But Johnson is a racist……read his Telegrapph column…watermelon smiles and pickininies

Last Jacobin
Last Jacobin
3 years ago
Reply to  Grant Evans

He’s worse. I don’t think he deep down believes in anything other than himself but he says racist things to make himself attractive to racists. Who then vote for him.

Cheryl Jones
Cheryl Jones
2 years ago
Reply to  Grant Evans

I don’t think you actually read that column, if you did you would know that the point he was making was the complete opposite of racist, it was a criticism of Tony Blair’s patronising white saviour tendencies. Same as his infamous burqa piece. If you actually read it and understand it he is DEFENDING the right to wear it while acknowledging the very real criticisms you can make of it as a symbol of an oppressive religion and the visceral revulsion some of us feel when we see it.

Jos Haynes
Jos Haynes
3 years ago
Reply to  Jon Redman

“slander”

Natalija Svobodné
Natalija Svobodné
3 years ago
Reply to  M Dibley

A free society is never equal, and an equal society is never free.

Natalija Svobodné
Natalija Svobodné
3 years ago
Reply to  John Nutkins

And also forgets that it was the west that stopped slavery! After I found out about the white slave-trade and looked over our own internal slavery, The history of serfs and indentured workers,(All white I might add) All the people that were stolen from the UK and taken to Algeria and sold to the ottomans. And all the cultures that resisted having slave markets shut. (And had to be shut by force through western powers)
I’ve since got a bit fed up with the intensely eurocentric arguments on race and slavery! Totally worth a watch. The West needs to regain its pride.
THOMAS SOWELL – THE REAL HISTORY OF SLAVERY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWrfjUzYvPo

Last edited 3 years ago by Natalija Svobodné
Cheryl Jones
Cheryl Jones
2 years ago

I’ve also noticed it’s not just eurocentric criticism – it’s very much ANGLOcentric. France, Spain Holland etc seem to get a largely free pass despite their imperial pasts and their lack of fortitude in stamping out the slave trade which was largely left to Britain.. Britain (as in England – the Scots try to deny their part in the Empire) is often singled out – I wonder how much of it simply jealousy at the enormous influence Britain has had on the modern world.

clem alford
clem alford
3 years ago
Reply to  John Nutkins

You have become as a Wolverhampton MP sadly once said ‘a stranger in your own land’!

Ben Morris
Ben Morris
3 years ago
Reply to  John Nutkins

What total rubbish.

David Morley
David Morley
3 years ago
Reply to  Ben Morris

Sorry Ben but you’re going to have to expand on your answers or you just look silly. Pick a comment you feel worth arguing against and have a go. At the moment you’re behaving like you belong on Twitter.
you may well have sound reasons for your views – but as it is there is just no way of knowing.

Jayne Lago
Jayne Lago
3 years ago
Reply to  John Nutkins

The problem is that we have no one in our corner. The media ie TV would have it freeze over in hell before allowing any white heterosexual person onto their superior discussion programmes. They are completely out of touch with the sane, mature, common sense people of this country.

Last edited 3 years ago by Jayne Lago
Last Jacobin
Last Jacobin
3 years ago
Reply to  Jayne Lago

There are white heterosexual people on TV discussion programmes every day so you are mistaken, exaggerating or effect or lying.

clem alford
clem alford
3 years ago
Reply to  Jon Redman

Yes, Abbott and Lammy for starters as they are openly black racists. Then MP Naz Shah, in Starmer’s shadow cabinet, for telling the raped white children in Oldham and Huddersfield to shut up in the interests of social cohesion. What is happening in the UK?

Natalija Svobodné
Natalija Svobodné
3 years ago
Reply to  clem alford

OMG I thought you were overstating!… It’s hard to believe an MP can even talk that way to a constituency…!
“Those abused girls in Rotherham and elsewhere just need to shut their mouths. For the good of diversity.”
https://metro.co.uk/2017/08/23/mp-shares-tweet-saying-abuse-victims-should-shut-their-mouths-for-good-of-diversity-6872181/
Disgusting behaviour!

Last edited 3 years ago by Natalija Svobodné
Tony Price
Tony Price
3 years ago

I think that you should look that up – she didn’t say it as such and that matters.

Natalija Svobodné
Natalija Svobodné
3 years ago
Reply to  Tony Price

Fair enough, I stand corrected! She liked and shared a tweet in 2017 which said: “Those abused girls in Rotherham and elsewhere just need to shut their mouths. For the good of diversity”
A tiny mercy, at very least she didn’t say it… But think it and agree and view it worthy of sharing she did!
Safe to say, I think that matters what MPs click on and like…
But I’m not sure such a thing should be liked, endorsed and shared either! It’s still pretty disgusting…

Last edited 3 years ago by Natalija Svobodné
Tobye Pierce
Tobye Pierce
3 years ago

The Rotherham and similar incidents are the most repulsive examples of racism in Britain. But no one seems to care much about them-evidently poor white girls lives don’t count. If the roles were exchanged the reaction to the situ would be quite different.

Hilary Tait
Hilary Tait
3 years ago
Reply to  Tony Price

She agreed with the sentiment, hence the re-tweet.

Hilary Tait
Hilary Tait
3 years ago
Reply to  clem alford

Multi-culture is happening. Each group advocates for the interests of their own group. This is natural. Westerners are unnatural. They no longer operate under the laws of group selection (because that would be racist). As non-racists, they will disappear, or their remnants will be dominated by another group or groups. Multi-culture promotes ethnic conflict.

Lydia R
Lydia R
3 years ago

The other outstanding conclusion of note is that 60% of Afro-Caribbean children live in fatherless families and this is a big factor in inequality. “Lived experience” doesn’t cut it when it comes to facts and statistics.

Geoff H
Geoff H
3 years ago
Reply to  Lydia R

Facts will always trump ‘lived experience’, anecdotals, ‘feelings’ (bless), and all manner of wokery emanating from the cult of woke

Starry Gordon
Starry Gordon
3 years ago
Reply to  Geoff H

Heh — ‘trump’. But lived experience, anecdotes, feelings, and so forth _are_ facts.

Natalija Svobodné
Natalija Svobodné
3 years ago
Reply to  Geoff H

“Facts will always trump ‘lived experience”
Oh Your an optimist :O) I can only like you for that!
It’s even been suggested that logic has its roots in (wait for it) “white privilege,” and anyone who offers a rational argument that is not commensurate with victim culture is somehow racist.”
Good Western Logic as Merely White-Privilege Oppression”https://www.wsj.com/articles/good-western-logic-as-merely-white-privilege-oppression-11604865500
Why Postmodernists Reject Logic & Evidence
Postmodernists deny this Enlightenment faith in science and technology as instruments of human progress. … For postmodernists, reason and logic too are merely conceptual constructs and are therefore valid only within the established intellectual traditions in which they are used.
Indeed, many postmodernists hold that the misguided (or unguided) pursuit of scientific and technological knowledge led to the development of technologies for killing on a massive scale in World War II. Some go so far as to say that science and technology—and even reason and logic—are inherently destructive and oppressive, because they have been used by evil people, especially during the 20th century, to destroy and oppress others.
(They forget those same skills also saved millions…and even without science we’ve been killing each other quite successfully for millenia.)
…The irony, we send people to learn… and they come away more retarded.
https://www.britannica.com/topic/postmodernism-philosophy

Last edited 3 years ago by Natalija Svobodné
Mark Preston
Mark Preston
3 years ago

The left have been ignoring the lack of evidence for a ‘gender pay gap’ for decades. Do you seriously imagine they’ll just admit to being wrong on race and all go home?

Katharine Eyre
Katharine Eyre
3 years ago

Sorry to drag this back to the Ginge & Whinge royal drama – but the “wielding of the hammer” is also perfectly encapsulated in reactions to this. In the days/weeks following the Oprah “interview”, it became virtually impossible to even indirectly question Meghan’s “truth” (bye-bye Piers Morgan, bye-bye Sharon Osbourne) about racism in the Royal family, despite the glaring discrepancies if not downright fallacies in her account that had to cause any person with an IQ of more than 60 to say “hang on a minute!” But it was fine to assume that – just because the Royal family, a national institution, currently only has white members and Britain has a colonial history – they must all be racist and bigoted now.

Paul Blakemore
Paul Blakemore
3 years ago
Reply to  Katharine Eyre

I was highly amused by MP David Lammy’s reaction to the report: which was straight out of the Whinge playbook. He said it was ”gaslighting” then refused to talk about it further for the sake of his ”mental health”: what a big baby! And pure comedic gold (I am obviously not a ‘kind’ person).

Katharine Eyre
Katharine Eyre
3 years ago
Reply to  Paul Blakemore

I reject the way that the “be kind” argument is used less as a call for a more caring society and more as a tool to shut down arguments that don’t fit a certain narrative. The word “kind” is falling prey to verbicide.

John Nutkins
John Nutkins
3 years ago
Reply to  Paul Blakemore

And let us not forget that the lamentable Lammy is the Rabble Party’s shadow Justice Minister. His lies have been well and truly exposed publicly, something we already knew long ago, of course.

Galeti Tavas
Galeti Tavas
3 years ago
Reply to  John Nutkins

A flea denouncing the dog for not respecting it.

Ben Morris
Ben Morris
3 years ago
Reply to  John Nutkins

Which lies? Lammy is an excellent man.

Robin Lambert
Robin Lambert
3 years ago
Reply to  Ben Morris

If he is your Version of ”Excellent man” you are obviously ignorant and You should Get lost pronto..Overweight lammy has lied about his expenses since he became an mP

Toby Josh
Toby Josh
3 years ago
Reply to  Ben Morris

Now I know that you’re just savouring the sensation of being inflammatory. Just in case you’re in earnest, may I ask if you ever saw the David Lammy celebrity Mastermind video?

Tom Fox
Tom Fox
3 years ago
Reply to  Paul Blakemore

Is that what ‘gaslighting’ means – defeating an argument with facts and objective data?
Sewell and his panel of mostly black investigators simply pointed out that in most of British society there is no systemic racism. Indeed Black African, Bangladeshi, Indian and East Asian children do better at school than the average for white children, and also wage disparity though still present in a small degree (about 2%) does not exist at all among the younger cohort of the population. These are the facts…. Of course Lammy does not want them to be aired. He has made a career out of asserting the opposite. Interestingly for Lammy and Lord Woolley and others of the systemic racism brigade, the extremely white, Irish Traveller children do the worst and are most often thrown out of schools. It is all about behaviour and the culture in which you are brought (or dragged) up. A significant proportion of West Indian ethnicity children are very badly brought up, are involved as they get older in very serious levels of crime and do very badly at school. Children who look exactly like them, but are born in African families with decent values who work hard and inculcate the same sort of values into their children, do very well. Lammy won’t like that at all, and neither did Lord Woolley on the radio this morning.

Last edited 3 years ago by Tom Fox
Eleanor Barlow
Eleanor Barlow
3 years ago
Reply to  Paul Blakemore

If he’s concerned about his mental health, I wonder what the hell he is doing working in politics?

Katharine Eyre
Katharine Eyre
3 years ago
Reply to  Eleanor Barlow

Yes, Eleanor – exactly what I thought. Same goes for the snowflakes at publishing houses that have to seek out their safe spaces when their employer wants to publish a book that doesn’t cleave to their world view exactly. If they can’t deal with that, a publishing house may not be the right place for them.

Robin Lambert
Robin Lambert
3 years ago
Reply to  Paul Blakemore

See his Expenses for the past decade nearly £2million,paid for by White taxpayers….Should be brought to book

Simon Pegler
Simon Pegler
3 years ago
Reply to  Katharine Eyre

It relates very well to the “interview” – I had also sensed the comparison. With any luck, Duchess Meghan has helped to expose the whole culture of wokeness for what it has become – a vicious and hypocritical charade, hopefully accelerating its demise.

Last edited 3 years ago by Simon Pegler
John Nutkins
John Nutkins
3 years ago
Reply to  Katharine Eyre

Well said, but may I be allowed to change ‘the glaring discrepancies if not downright fallacies’ to ‘contemptible, outright and bare-faced lies’?

Meghan Kathleen Jamieson
Meghan Kathleen Jamieson
3 years ago
Reply to  Katharine Eyre

I don’t necessarily disagree with your gist here, but I do think it’s fair to say that there are members of the RF who might be considered racist without it being an assumption – but based on things they’ve said and done. Of course some might point to Harry as the most likely candidate for that in his generation.

Katharine Eyre
Katharine Eyre
3 years ago

Yes, I take your point. And in a way, that would reflect what the Sewell report says about British society as a whole: while there might be instances of racism in Britain (which must be called out), it is wrong to extrapolate that and say that the problem is endemic/structural/institutional without sufficient evidence to back your argument up.

Last edited 3 years ago by Katharine Eyre
Galeti Tavas
Galeti Tavas
3 years ago
Reply to  Katharine Eyre

But the Royal Family has basically ‘Taken The Knee’ and is out to find and employ a ‘Race Czar’ to publicly berate them for being the greatest historical racists in a remarkably crazy act of self denunciation and self flagellation. Every day we find out how Britain’s generous open doors have not been appreciated, or helpful.

George Bruce
George Bruce
3 years ago

In fact if you wanted an example of an institutionally racist organisation, it would be the Guardian. The newspaper has its anti-white male line, the journalists know they have to follow it, right down to the sports journos.

David Boulding
David Boulding
3 years ago
Reply to  George Bruce

I enjoy the Guardian comments..Those that contribute are so horribly wrong on every matter they espouse it’s entertaining. But it makes me nervous to think that there are so many of them are so badly blinkered.

John Nutkins
John Nutkins
3 years ago
Reply to  David Boulding

No effort is required to be ignorant as that atrocious rag demonstrates every day.

Tom Fox
Tom Fox
3 years ago
Reply to  David Boulding

The Guardian is representative of a small minority of the population. They make a lot of noise but have no impact on the real world.

Eleanor Barlow
Eleanor Barlow
3 years ago
Reply to  Tom Fox

‘They make a lot of noise but have no impact on the real world.’

Unfortunately I think they do. Guardian readers/supporters are particularly prominent in charities and local authorities. They are often employed in senior positions where they have the power to turn their views into policy.

Fred Atkinstalk
Fred Atkinstalk
3 years ago
Reply to  Eleanor Barlow

Don’t forget teaching. Many, if not most, of the teachers I know are Guardianistas, consistently pouring wokist bile into the ears of the impressionable young.

Starry Gordon
Starry Gordon
3 years ago
Reply to  Tom Fox

Well, they occasioned your comment.

Robin Lambert
Robin Lambert
3 years ago
Reply to  Tom Fox

except BBC which buys around 25,000 copies daily at £2.20 overexpensive sh**** Also Gates foundation funnells money in to keep it from folding,unfortunately

Ben Morris
Ben Morris
3 years ago
Reply to  George Bruce

a ridiculous comment. as a white male I have never felt threatened by the Guardian. why are you such a snowflake?

Rob Mcneill-wilson
Rob Mcneill-wilson
3 years ago
Reply to  Ben Morris

He didn’t write that he felt threatened by the stupid rag. Anyway, it’s a snowflake rag, so perhaps that’s why you didn’t feel threatened.

Toby Josh
Toby Josh
3 years ago

Apologies, I just went and restated your point. Good comment, though.

Brian Dorsley
Brian Dorsley
3 years ago
Reply to  Ben Morris

It’s a magazine for sexless cultural scolds and moralistic midwits. I find it faintly threatening, but am glad that its journalists and commentators are free to air their hatred and prejudices out in the open. Hopefully having that outlet online will keep them off the streets and prevent them from rioting and tearing down statues or some other such rot.

Toby Josh
Toby Josh
3 years ago
Reply to  Ben Morris

No one mentioned feeling threatened. ‘Threatening’ is not part of any of the usual definitions of racism. Perhaps you’re one of those people who puts emotions as closer to truth than facts.

Lydia R
Lydia R
3 years ago

The interviews by various BBC reporters, Channel 4 and ITV showed their usual impartiality. One of the Commission appeared on Channel 4 and put his case calmly and rationality. Then 2 race grifters appeared, bloviating about micro aggressions, subtle racism and lived experience.

A Spetzari
A Spetzari
3 years ago
Reply to  Lydia R

But didn’t you know that the worst, most vicious kind of prejudice is that which you cannot define or explain or identify? See Reni Eddo-Lodges book for more detail on this.
It’s like sociopathic homeopathy you see. The more diluted it is, the stronger it becomes.

Richard Spicer
Richard Spicer
3 years ago
Reply to  Lydia R

ITV news rolled in all the usual opposition to the Commission and did not invite anyone to support it. How balanced is that?

Tom Fox
Tom Fox
3 years ago
Reply to  Richard Spicer

This morning Mishal Husein did two interviews which were very different. She worked Alex Salmond over big time so that he came out probably sweating and shaking with impotent rage and shock. Lord Wooley on the other hand was asked a couple of very soft questions about his attitude to the Sewell report and was allowed to spend a lot of time dealing in generalities and anecdotes about the 1970s and propagating the idea that the UK is an institutionally racist society top to bottom. It was a ‘what would you like to say?’ kind of interview. Mishal Husein did not ask him at all about the very great differences in the performance, criminality or other differences between the different groups which make up the so called BAME population. The differences are huge. They are certainly not all the same.
All we got was him saying how hurtful it all was and that the report was a whitewash by the government of a serious problem. She just gave him a platform to say what he had prepared earlier.

Last edited 3 years ago by Tom Fox
Peter de Barra
Peter de Barra
3 years ago
Reply to  Tom Fox

… the usual term is “”over representation within the deviant group””

Tom Fox
Tom Fox
3 years ago
Reply to  Lydia R

micro aggressions, subtle racism and lived experience”, trump actual data any day.

Vikram Sharma
Vikram Sharma
3 years ago

The report is spot on. Institutional Racism is unverifiable and depends on circular reasoning.
X is doing worse than Y. This proves that UK is institutionally racist.
Why do yo think X is doing worse than Y? Because UK is institutionally racist.
How do you know UK is institutionally racist? Because X is doing worse than Y.
So you never try to find out why X is doing worse than Y. Just keep handing over public money to organisations that depend upon the notion of Institutional Racism to milk the system.

Igor Sagdejev
Igor Sagdejev
3 years ago
Reply to  Vikram Sharma

I can understand why those “of colour” themselves are doing it. Hard to escape temptation to get more goodies.
Same with those in “the industry”.
But the white Lefties (except those for whom this is the profession) really get on my nerves.
And yes, the logic is completely missing here, and I don’t think anything can be fixed with this hammer.

Alan Girling
Alan Girling
3 years ago
Reply to  Igor Sagdejev

The white lefties, according to Shelby Steele, are motivated by sheer terror and self-loathing. The terror that they themselves will be accused. The fervour of their denunciations is a protective shield against the same. It’s the constant refrain of, “I am innocent, I am innocent. Let me be.”

David B
David B
3 years ago
Reply to  Alan Girling

Correct, a lot of it ultimately proves to be projection. Weinstein’s feminism is a good recent example.

Hammer Klavier
Hammer Klavier
3 years ago
Reply to  Vikram Sharma

An excellent summary!

Meghan Kathleen Jamieson
Meghan Kathleen Jamieson
3 years ago
Reply to  Vikram Sharma

This is the problem that has been pointed out by the American socialist academic Adolph Reed Jr. He points out that “institutional racism” is not an explanation of mechanism, but simply a not very useful label given to a observed disparity of unknown origin. So from the position of the traditional left, completely useless to actually create change.

Ian Barton
Ian Barton
3 years ago

The measured approach being taken by the government to carefully undermine the “racism industry” is definitely to be applauded.
Hopefully next up will be the “gender pay gap” industry.

David B
David B
3 years ago
Reply to  Ian Barton

A different head of the same hydra really.

Richard Lord
Richard Lord
3 years ago

Racism does indeed exist. Just this morning radio 4 trailed a radio programme where black musicians discuss a particular style of music. Would we ever hear this about a group of white musicians? Those who protest about racism cannot have it both ways.

Matt Whitby
Matt Whitby
3 years ago
Reply to  Richard Lord

Someone I know called Burnley FC racist because their whole first team is white, when it was pointed out that Dwight McNeil and a number of their young players coming through are not, the response was “yeah but he LOOKS white!” Ok then…

John Nutkins
John Nutkins
3 years ago
Reply to  Matt Whitby

Whereas in their recent home match against Leeds United, Fulham’s first eleven had nine black players starting, yet Sky’s oleaginous and nauseating commentators bang on about equality, lack of opportunity and justice. The hypocrisy and stupidity, apart from the insult, are breathtaking.

Starry Gordon
Starry Gordon
3 years ago
Reply to  Richard Lord

Don’t you have people who perform traditional music from the various tribes that compose Great Britain? We certainly do in the US and every other country I know about.

Robin Lambert
Robin Lambert
3 years ago
Reply to  Richard Lord

Music of Black origin is Racist epithet,most Black jazz Greats like miles davis,John Coltrane,thelonius monk etc..would be appalled

sharon johnson
sharon johnson
3 years ago

I asked my 13 year old what she is studying in her Social Studies class. “Racism” she responded. Hmm. It appears I have my work cut out for me.
Sharon (San Francisco)

James Rowlands
James Rowlands
3 years ago
Reply to  sharon johnson

Complain, then if no response, change schools.
schools are a business. Would you still shop at your local supermarket if they called you a racist for asking if they had white cabbage?

Last edited 3 years ago by James Rowlands
Mark Preston
Mark Preston
3 years ago
Reply to  sharon johnson

Time to consider home schooling unless you like your children being brain washed.

Ben Morris
Ben Morris
3 years ago
Reply to  Mark Preston

Right. And you wouldn’t brainwash them yourself?

Ben Morris
Ben Morris
3 years ago
Reply to  sharon johnson

why? What work? If you agree racism exists, then how can you claim it can’t be studied?

Galeti Tavas
Galeti Tavas
3 years ago
Reply to  Ben Morris

Does crime exist! Well then it must be studied in School. The children must learn about this huge factor which effects every moment of their lives, from locking the door as they leave for work, to unlocking the car, and then locking the door when inside, to looking around before exiting, and then locking the car again, and showing your ID to enter the work place to….

The systematic study needs to compile a statistical guide of WHO is committing the crime so they can learn who is oppressing them by making the citizen a victim, and who they need to keep away from for their own safety!

Crime is a much bigger factor in almost everyone’s life than racism, so we need to know WHO is doing it.

Brian Dorsley
Brian Dorsley
3 years ago
Reply to  Ben Morris

Surely you’re not one of those people who think racism is ‘everywhere’, are you?

David B
David B
3 years ago
Reply to  Ben Morris

You seem to be deliberately trying to miss or distort the point of many of these comments. I have noticed this is a common element among the “woke”.

Galeti Tavas
Galeti Tavas
3 years ago
Reply to  sharon johnson

And I would guess in her literature class she also is studying Racism, and in her Government class, and pretty much all the rest of them. Let us hope they manage to prove to her 13 year old self that all the evils of the world are caused by her so she may exhibit the correct guilt and remorse.

Igor Sagdejev
Igor Sagdejev
3 years ago
Reply to  sharon johnson

Been to the States last year, to see my granddaughters. Discovered indoctrination on the Soviet scale (and I know what it was) 🙁

Jayne Lago
Jayne Lago
3 years ago
Reply to  sharon johnson

Well theres a surprise, I can see it now in schools after the holiday. Stand by your desks, salute the flag of mediocrity and prepare to protest!

J J
J J
3 years ago

The reference to the countryside being racist seems odd, but I believe has some merit.
What do you see when you go to the countryside? Sheep? What colour are sheep? Are you naive enough to think their colour is a coincidence? Why do farmers not have any black sheep?
Why do cows have white blobs painted on them? Why do farmers do that? Have you ever seen black corn? Why do we only grow potatoes and carrots and other ‘white european’ vegetables? Where are the pineapples and bananas?
This country makes me sick and if you don’t agree you are part of the problem

Last edited 3 years ago by J J
J A Thompson
J A Thompson
3 years ago
Reply to  J J

Passed a field of black sheep on my walk in Kent this morning. Did not see a dinghy anywhere near.

Giulia Khawaja
Giulia Khawaja
3 years ago
Reply to  J A Thompson

There are a few brown sheep among the white in a field near me. They may be more multicultural than the humans. And those Frisian cows have really got themselves organised.

George Glashan
George Glashan
3 years ago
Reply to  J J

The country side is also disgustingly hetronormative, all those farm animals and their heterosexual breeding of more farm animals. And where is the support for sheep who feel like they were born a cow?

Pauline Ivison
Pauline Ivison
3 years ago
Reply to  George Glashan

Hahahaha made my day, thank you.

Bob Henson
Bob Henson
3 years ago
Reply to  J J

In our part of the world we have a lot of Galloway cattle, these are black with a white stripe around their middle. Also in our part of the world we have herdwick sheep which are born black and then turn white in their first year.

Dominic Rudman
Dominic Rudman
3 years ago
Reply to  Bob Henson

Sounds like those herdies are internalising their own oppression….

David Morley
David Morley
3 years ago
Reply to  Bob Henson

Bounty bar sheep – black on the outside but white inside.

Monty Marsh
Monty Marsh
3 years ago
Reply to  J J

Up here in Northumberland we have the Chillingham Herd of big, white, dangerous, evil tempered, cattle. They are the white chavs of the bovine world, and they really need an extended visit from some CRT spin doctors to teach them the error of their ways, and train them to moderate their behaviour.

Jos Haynes
Jos Haynes
3 years ago
Reply to  J J

I think you’re behind the times, agriculturally. Black sheep are becoming more common because farmers no longer select for white wool in their rams and ewes – the wool has very little value these days, so it might just as well be black or brown as white. Expect even more black sheep!
[Just speaking as another sort of black sheep]

Brian Villanueva
Brian Villanueva
3 years ago

Becoming an “ally” by publicly lamenting institutional racism gets the wealthy and educated off the hook for their obvious classism. In terms of sociological effects, “money privilege” dwarfs “white privilege” by at least a factor of 10.

A working class divided by race is far less of a threat. Bernie said as much in 2016; by 2020 he’d sold out.

George Wells
George Wells
3 years ago

A working class divided by race is far less of a threat.
Yes – this bears repeating again and again.
This is a very old trick. Sometimes it is by class, sometimes it is by religion, but again and again, divide and rule.

Miro Mitov
Miro Mitov
3 years ago

While I appreciate the analogy, structural racism is not a hammer. A hammer is a tool that has a useful purpose, a tool for honest day’s work that you can put down at the end of the day and look with satisfaction at the fruit of your labour. The tool that is being wielded by the woke is not a hammer. It is a whip, a whip to strike the unrighteous, a whip to always hold in your hand while walking down the line of silent people cowering from your gaze. It is a tool to instil fear in the souls of the unwoke, make them shutter their windows, hold their breath and hope that the sound of jackboots will pass their door and stop at somebody else’s.
The picture of frenzied crowds holding their right arms in the air, shouting slogans and smashing the windows of businesses owned by a certain group of people reminds me of absolutely nothing historically and I perfectly understand why the woke press show no interest in it.

Last edited 3 years ago by Miro Mitov
Louise Henson
Louise Henson
3 years ago

A report on race that didn’t start with the answer and then work backwards rejecting all the inconvenient evidence which disproves it. How refreshing it is to find there are still intelligent and open-minded people in public life.

Ben Morris
Ben Morris
3 years ago
Reply to  Louise Henson

have you read the report? if not, it’s pretty odd to praise it. I doubt even Murray has read it. which makes this a pretty vapid forum.

michael harris
michael harris
3 years ago
Reply to  Ben Morris

Ask Murray if he’s read it, dear boy. Then come back here if you have more than guesswork to help you.

Ben Morris
Ben Morris
3 years ago
Reply to  michael harris

Dear boy?

Aidan Trimble
Aidan Trimble
3 years ago
Reply to  Ben Morris

Why are you even bothering to comment Ben. You bring absolutely nothing to the discussion other than childish fact free outbursts.

Jayne Lago
Jayne Lago
3 years ago
Reply to  Ben Morris

Obviously I don’t know your age but you certainly sound like a ‘very angry young man’. Have you been on Facebook too long?

Fraser Bailey
Fraser Bailey
3 years ago

Of course, we have known all this for many years, but this report will help us, I suppose. But race grifters gotta grift, and it will take more than this to put them back in their box, or to get them doing something useful.

Ian Barton
Ian Barton
3 years ago

The bulk of the losers from this report are the “narrative pedlars” that come from one specific sub-group that hide themselves within the nonsense classification BAME.
They are in for an increasingly rough ride.

Last edited 3 years ago by Ian Barton
Andrew Thompson
Andrew Thompson
3 years ago
Reply to  Ian Barton

And shall be until the day they die I fear.

Noah Ebtihej Sdiri
Noah Ebtihej Sdiri
3 years ago

The upper-middle-class progressives have used the notions of institutional racism and white privilege to conceal the one true privilege they benefit from: class privilege. As such, they support the causes that do not carry the potential to threaten their position in the social hierarchy.
My father is Tunisian, I wasn’t discriminated against because of my weird name or my physical features. No, I was discriminated against because my very white secular mother hails from a small post-industrial town in France and did not have much inheritance to pass onto her children. We live in a neo-feudal system where your position in society is more or less determined by your class at birth, not your skin colour or your religion.
I have yet to meet a single white SJW who does not come from a family who benefited from the last 30 years of increased globalisation and metropolisation.
In reality, conferring the status of oppressor and oppressed based on ethnicity, religion, and gender gives the so-calling “progressive” white upper-middle-class and upper class a mean to look down on white working-class people while avoiding the accusations of classicism.
Simply put, this whole idea of institutional racism in Western Europe is a fraud

Alex Lekas
Alex Lekas
3 years ago

I have yet to meet a single white SJW who does not come from a family who benefited from the last 30 years of increased globalisation and metropolisation.
^^^that right there^^^ The SJW is a product of having the luxury to debate first-world problems.

Meghan Kathleen Jamieson
Meghan Kathleen Jamieson
3 years ago

It’s worth pointing out that as the representatives of globalism, these people are not really on the left in any reasonable sense of the term, despite what many Unherd readers might think. They are liberals, economically and socially.
The globalist economic players, which means people like this but also almost every major western political party, are desperate to avoid challenging class in any meaningful way. That’s not leftism no matter how you cut it.

Fraser Bailey
Fraser Bailey
3 years ago

Exactly. The meaning of ‘left wing’ has been utterly distorted and traduced by these people, along with their accomplices across the media and academia. To be honest I was once, at least to some extent, one of them, but I woke up about 15 years ago.

Stuart Y
Stuart Y
3 years ago

And therein lies the truth of the whole matter! What you say Ben?

Fraser Bailey
Fraser Bailey
3 years ago

Great post. All true.

Jos Haynes
Jos Haynes
3 years ago

Your parents gave you intelligence, and apparently a good education. Apart from good looks, there is not much more that a person would want. A material inheritance sounds good but it is actually a burden. It changes your direction, your ambitions, and you will always be left wondering to the end of your days how much of your achievements are due to YOUR efforts and how much to those of your parents.

Alex Lekas
Alex Lekas
3 years ago

The nature of activism is never to solve an issue, but to perpetuate it. Because grievance is an industry. If “racism” were no more, a lot of people would no longer have purpose. Numerous academics would have nothing to screech about, the entire diversity/inclusion industry would be superfluous, and people would have to take responsibility for their own decisions.
With race, the enemy appears to be freedom. It’s easier to accuse someone of racism than to be accountable. It’s easier to claim racism than to make choices and accept their consequences. And this is why a column like this will be published again in 50 years time. Because today’s hustlers will be succeeded by tomorrow’s, and they will continue the grift.

Ben Morris
Ben Morris
3 years ago
Reply to  Alex Lekas

so racism doesn’t exist?

Alex Lekas
Alex Lekas
3 years ago
Reply to  Ben Morris

That’s not what I said.

David B
David B
3 years ago
Reply to  Alex Lekas

“So what you’re saying is…”

Ben Morris
Ben Morris
3 years ago
Reply to  Alex Lekas

So it does exist? And presumably you think it’s a bad thing? And that would mean you agree it should be addressed? And this report shifts away from that, towards something more self congratulatory.

Paul Blakemore
Paul Blakemore
3 years ago
Reply to  Ben Morris

The report makes 24 recommendations to improve the lives of groups that are actually disadvantaged (so maybe not of relevance to the Asian millionaires that appear in The Sunday Times Rich List). The groups that need the most help are Afro Caribbean, Asian/Muslim and white working class.

Brian Dorsley
Brian Dorsley
3 years ago
Reply to  Ben Morris

Only if you believe in it. It’s a bit like the devil. But then again critical race theory is religion for secular people.

michael harris
michael harris
3 years ago
Reply to  Ben Morris

The first answer to that question, Ben (if it was a serious question) is to look into what is most familiar and best known. Oneself. Do that, please, Ben and then opine honestly about prejudice of all kinds.

Annette Kralendijk
Annette Kralendijk
3 years ago

“The Church of England has been described as “institutionally racist” by no less a figure than the Archbishop of Canterbury.”
I wondered what his story was. After he refused to comment on Meghan Markle’s claim that he had married her and Harry in private three days before the official wedding. That pretty much indicated that she was not telling the truth but he didn’t want to contradict her. Because of race maybe?

Frank Leigh-Sceptical
Frank Leigh-Sceptical
3 years ago

he is an utterly valueless, craven, cringing, fawning waste of space, FYI

Pauline Ivison
Pauline Ivison
3 years ago

Couldn’t have expressed my feelings any better myself. Thank you.

Andrew Thompson
Andrew Thompson
3 years ago

People often never take responsibilities when things for them go wrong, it always has to be someone else’s fault. All to often its us local, or shall I say indigenous racists that are causing their (oft perceived) problems. Sometimes people make you into racists when you are not or at least tar you as such. Thank God this report was chaired by a black man otherwise we’d all be right up the schism creek paddle-less .

Robert Forde
Robert Forde
3 years ago

And the commission itself had 12 members, only 1 of whom was white. However, unlike most of those commenting on the report, I have actually downloaded it and will be reading and digesting it over a reasonable period. Prior to that, I do not intend to make a judgment.

Stephen Crossley
Stephen Crossley
3 years ago
Reply to  Robert Forde

Like you, Robert, I will be reading the report before posting. I only hope that afterwards you have the courage to comment on its findings rather than take the easy option of staying silent on such matters if they don’t support one’s existing world view.

Last Jacobin
Last Jacobin
3 years ago

By the time we’ve all had the chance to read it properly and understand the report it will no longer be news.
Whatever the actual report and the data included in it says the Government played a blinder in terms of media manipulation. The Government wrote the Press briefing summarising the aspects of the report they wanted to highlight, released it just in time for the Morning papers and morning media rounds and embargoed journalists from seeking responses to the content of the briefing. The Guardian ignored this attempt to silence opposing views but it was still impossible for any news outlet to challenge the Government’s interpretation of the report because they hadn’t seen the report. The Government got its ‘Britain is not Racist’ headlines before anyone had a chance to check if or why the report says that. The detailed responses will be ignored.
Great propaganda coup for the Government.

Arnold Grutt
Arnold Grutt
3 years ago
Reply to  Last Jacobin

You know, It’s amazing how things turn to out be be just the way you always wanted. Have you ever come across anything that wasn’t how you knew in advance that it would be?
As for the Government briefing, well YOU DON’T BELIEVE IT DO YOU? So why assume that everyone else does?
Propaganda is wholly ineffective on opponents. It is, always, addressed solely to people who are already supporters (just as someone who is already favourable to Christianity is the only person able to be converted to Christianity).
You think that anyone who might agree with the report agrees with the Government. In fact, there is no logical connection between the two things.
Forget the Government. Read the report. Argue with it, in public if necessary.

Last edited 3 years ago by Arnold Grutt
Last Jacobin
Last Jacobin
3 years ago
Reply to  Arnold Grutt

I didn’t expect the EHRC to be so clear that the Hostile Environment policy of the Government was illegal and racist. But they did.

Tom Fox
Tom Fox
3 years ago

I listened to two interviews on the Today Programme done by Mishal Husein this morning. Salmond was torn apart – quite rightly, and shown up for what he is, but Lord Simon Woolley was allowed to trot out a series of tropes about structural racism with virtually no challenge in the face of a report which uses actual performance data to show how well most ethnic minority groups are doing. It is most frustrating when we see that an interviewer who can tear Salmond to bits, puts on the kid gloves and more or less ‘strokes’ Woolley as he parades a pile of anecdotal rubbish in support of his contentions about the hideous structural racism of the UK.
I have written to M.Husein and the Today editors, but I doubt they will think I merit a reply….. That’s the BBC all over. Virtually only in the most grotesque cases do they ever admit they might have got something wrong. They clearly have the magic wand of infallibility waved over them when they get a job there.

Last edited 3 years ago by Tom Fox
George Glashan
George Glashan
3 years ago
Reply to  Tom Fox

Tom your in for a treat when their deflective non-apology comes your way. Just make sure once you have the ref number for your complaint response that you then complain to Ofcom, they are equally useless but it means the BBC cant hide the complaint in their figures.

Hammer Klavier
Hammer Klavier
3 years ago
Reply to  Tom Fox

Mishal Husein’s son goes to Eton.
Doesn’t look like she (or he) has suffered much from “structural racism”.

Last edited 3 years ago by Hammer Klavier
D Ward
D Ward
3 years ago
Reply to  Tom Fox

“Lord Simon Woolley”

who he?

Peter LR
Peter LR
3 years ago

Class as ever from Douglas.

Elise Davies
Elise Davies
3 years ago

In a recent btl spat in the Guardian, I was roundly condemned by the commentariat for having the temerity to ask whether or not Meghan Markle had any sort of proof that she had been racially abused by a member of her husband’s family. And that if she did, why not just produce it?
Before the question was moderated (removed) someone demanded that I should ‘listen to black people’ and take all their comments at face value. Which seems a strange basis for any sort of discussion.

Brian Dorsley
Brian Dorsley
3 years ago
Reply to  Elise Davies

Guardian readers are a rare breed. Thankfully, I have never encountered one in real life. If it’s any consolation, I was banned from there when I mildly objected to the notion that men could become women.

Elise Davies
Elise Davies
3 years ago
Reply to  Brian Dorsley

I was banned in an earlier incarnation for asking if Greta Thunberg was now beyond criticism.

Simon Stephenson
Simon Stephenson
3 years ago

While I understand your introduction of Maslow’s Hammer to your piece, I don’t think you quite appreciate that the concept of institutional racism, along with its big brother, critical race theory (or, more correctly, critical race hypothesis), is very much a series of findings specially concocted to give “scientific” cover to a politically desired set of prejudicial conclusions, rather than an independent and academically valid area of study from which certain political conclusions can credibly be drawn. In contrast to proper study, where the conclusions are dependent upon the results of the study, in the field of race theory the published results of the study are required to conform to a requirement to be consistent with a set of conclusions about society that have already been formalised.
This isn’t intellectually valid investigation and discovery, it’s the production of pseudoscientific rationalisations in order to attempt to hoodwink the general population into believing that the political mantras of the Modern Left are of more substance than the mirages that they actually are.

michael stanwick
michael stanwick
3 years ago

Precisely. From my reading of Critical Race Theory (usually informed by newdiscourses.com), it is a series of undemonstrated assertions about reality that are reified into existence, as if actual.
It in turn is predicated on critical social justice ‘Theory’, a quasi religious doctrine about reality that is partially informed by a marxian frame of reference and with a postmodern turn attached onto that.

Last edited 3 years ago by michael stanwick
Arnold Grutt
Arnold Grutt
3 years ago

“an independent and academically valid area of study from which certain political conclusions can credibly be drawn.”

Actually no such study is of any direct relevance to politics. All facts are capable of being interpreted in at least two ways. What one person considers ‘significant’ might be treated as ‘completely useless’ by someone else. Politics is not about scientific ‘facts’ at all. It is a conflict of visions, or more properly a ‘future vision’ versus a lack of belief in the possibility of any such vision being realised at all as a ‘whole’ at any future point.

Last edited 3 years ago by Arnold Grutt
Richard Spicer
Richard Spicer
3 years ago

‘wielding the hammer of genetic traits’ This is extremely relevant. If you are discussing the reasons Dutch people are the tallest race you are allowed to discuss whether it is due to genetics or environment . If you try to do this when discussing why’ BAME ‘ people are more susceptible to certain illnesses (eg Covid) you are not allowed to suggest that genetics may play a part. Scientific papers in the past suggested it was mainly genetic , current literature says it is all environmental and it seems to be forbidden to discuss whether both may contribute. This is very bad science.

Giulia Khawaja
Giulia Khawaja
3 years ago
Reply to  Richard Spicer

I thought it is now accepted that low vitamin D is a risk factor for Covid. If so, it seems obvious that darker skinned people will lack vitamin D being unable to absorb enough in our rather grey northern country.

Last Jacobin
Last Jacobin
3 years ago
Reply to  Richard Spicer

If you try to do this when discussing why’ BAME ‘ people are more susceptible to certain illnesses (eg Covid) you are not allowed to suggest that genetics may play a part.
You are making that up.
There’s been lots of discussion and research on this to try and work out if the reason is genetic or environmental or a combination of both. And it continues. Just Google it.

Greg Greg
Greg Greg
3 years ago

Very helpful. It’s as if ‘racism’ has become a drug that a few select ethnic groups have become addicted to, thanks to an entire industry of suppliers who will do almost anything to make themselves indispensable to said addicts. I suppose that these dealers, like most, twist themselves in to philosophical pretzels in their attempt to justify the slavery that, ironically, is their trade.

G H
G H
3 years ago

Plus of course there is an entire industry created to promote the concept of institutional racism. These people depend upon maintaining the myth,both financially and reputationally. They have no option but to rail against the conclusions of the report. Similar to the current feminism movement and the likes of Stonewall, they have to continue to fight the battles that have largely been won. Otherwise they cease to have any relevance.

Ben Morris
Ben Morris
3 years ago
Reply to  G H

‘an entire industry’ – hilarious. journalism itself is ‘an entire industry’ and here in this branch of it there are plenty of people like Murray claiming that IR doesn’t exist, and getting paid to do so.

Alan Girling
Alan Girling
3 years ago
Reply to  Ben Morris

People like Murray are the brave ones speaking out today, as were early voices standing up for civil rights back when some folks didn’t have them, before the grifters saw the opportunities for power that lay ahead in what was once a righteous cause. Average people today who say the same things he does risk their reputations and livelihoods.

michael harris
michael harris
3 years ago
Reply to  Ben Morris

Again, Ben, please be clear. If you are talking about IR as you call it (sounds like a tax avoidance scheme) be prepared to discuss where it exists (in which institutions). If it’s only in some peoples’ heads call it another name. If it’s in everyone’s head let’s first of all hear about your head ; and not in a faux religious ‘I was a sinner, but I saw the light’ style.
The journalism industry is clearly split on this issue. The ‘race relations’ industry, as we have come to see, less so. All these opinion formers are, of course, getting paid. Because I, and, I assume, you are in it for free doesn’t make either of us wiser or fuller of merit.

George Glashan
George Glashan
3 years ago

How exactly do the grievance mongers explain differences? i.e. if there is a school , the brightest pupil is black and the worst pupil is black, is white supremacy / racism responsible for both, or just applies to the worst? how was the brightest immune to the racism that the worst was not? I know I’m asking for a logical explanation of a nutter philosophy but I’m curious what their “reasoning” is?

or stated another way how does critical race theory explain differences within a racial group?
also there must be hundreds of schools in London where this scenario is actually happening.

Alex Lekas
Alex Lekas
3 years ago
Reply to  George Glashan

How exactly do the grievance mongers explain differences?
Those, too, are evidence of racism. The elegance of the argument is that no actual argument built on substance is required.

David Morley
David Morley
3 years ago

Nobody seems to be worrying about what a terrible blow this could be to middle class white employment!

Alex Lekas
Alex Lekas
3 years ago
Reply to  David Morley

those are the eggs in the social justice omellete.

Stewart Slater
Stewart Slater
3 years ago

“It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.” Upton Sinclair

Terence Fitch
Terence Fitch
3 years ago

The argument from perfection: on another earth there is a country where perfect harmony beyond equality exists. Someone enlighten me. The white culture under attack- USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, the UK, Western Europe, is evil but refugees and economic migrants only want to come to those countries not to South America, Russia or Eastern Europe or the Middle East or India, Pakistan, Indonesia, Africa. Is there a pattern here?

Walter Lantz
Walter Lantz
3 years ago

One of the respected older American Black conservatives (I’m sorry- can’t remember the name) offered up the 4 keys to success for young people.
Finish high school. Get any honest job. No kids outside of a stable monogamous relationship. Stay out of the criminal justice system.
All common sense items which this report essentially confirms.
The problem is that progressives are almost certainly beavering away on a response narrative to debunk the whole thing.
Those keys to success are a White Construct and serve only to reinforce the tyranny of Systemic Racism that intimidates and marginalizes races to the point where they think their only option to escape poverty and oppression lies in forswearing their own racial heritage and Acting White.
You see? The report has simply confirmed the problem is even worse then we thought.

Fraser Bailey
Fraser Bailey
3 years ago

Someone should have done an April Fool along the lines of ‘Dawn Butler calls for white notes to be removed from pianos’.

Richard Turpin
Richard Turpin
3 years ago
Reply to  Fraser Bailey

Fraser…brilliant.LOL

Robin Lambert
Robin Lambert
3 years ago
Reply to  Fraser Bailey

The Goodies Zebra crossing in 1971 ,Was similar

David Morley
David Morley
3 years ago
Reply to  Fraser Bailey

That doesn’t sound like an April fool at all. How about: “Dawn Butler changes mind after reading recent report on race”.

John Speaks
John Speaks
3 years ago

Naturally enough, each party to the politics of race is struggling for its own cause. There are four. The first, and the only moral actor in this drama, is the native British and the nationalists who speak for their interests. They want to be heard by the other parties because to hear them is to witness the death of any other worldview.
The second party is the political right, or the neoliberal actor; and it generally governs the country but, until now, has not been in control of the race agenda, except to rush on with the race project itself in the interests of the banks and corporations which fund it. It only sees interchangeable economic units interested in nothing more human and permanent that jobs and consumer goods. What cannot be commodified does not really exist for it.
The third party is the political left, or the neo-marxist actor; and it wants to tear everything down in the name of human sameness (which, obviously, does not exist, the denial of which fact cost 90 million lives in the 20th century). It is impossible to overstate the hatred and malignancy of this party. If it gets the chance it behaves pathologically violently, a little of which pathology escapes its mouth with each use of the r-word or whatever hate-label it feels entitled to ascribe to better men.
The fourth party is the non-white race industry, which wants to advance the non-white colonisation of this land by traducing the character and dissent of the natives. It’s racist, obviously. Its racial client is constituted of aggressors on the soil, and not ethnic minorities (an abused term which refers to a centuries-settled minority group not to a colony which arrived, relatively speaking, at five past nine this morning).
The great question is: how, after decades of abuse and suppression, can the cause of the first party prevail?

John Nutkins
John Nutkins
3 years ago
Reply to  John Speaks

Good analysis.

Last Jacobin
Last Jacobin
3 years ago
Reply to  John Speaks

Scary stuff straight out of Germany in the thirties. You’ve just changed ‘Jew’ to ‘non-white’.

Brian Dorsley
Brian Dorsley
3 years ago
Reply to  Last Jacobin

I did that in my Critical Race Theory class. I swapped the ‘j-word’ for the word ‘white’ and got a B for my paper.

Perry de Havilland
Perry de Havilland
3 years ago

“We have solved this long standing problem & now I can go do something else with my life…” said no activist ever.
Well, other than Nigel Farage, come to think of it.
Activists have no interest is ever taking the win & standing down, there is no money, authority & power in doing that.

Matt Sylvestre
Matt Sylvestre
3 years ago

Murray!
Always* says what I would say if I was half the man he is…

*I would not have said the whole “making it harder on” statement, but of Murray’s more recent statements one could only wish to be so erudite.

Last edited 3 years ago by Matt Sylvestre
Chris Stapleton
Chris Stapleton
3 years ago

The left needs “institutional racism”, in order to continue to take over the institutions, and introduce their version of racism.

Ben Morris
Ben Morris
3 years ago

‘their version of racism’ – erm. what is that then?

R S
R S
3 years ago
Reply to  Ben Morris

Where minorities are subservient to the white leftwing racists and give them the validation they desire that they are the good ones

Last edited 3 years ago by R S
Ben Morris
Ben Morris
3 years ago
Reply to  R S

Ah. So white people can only resist racism against other white people? Hmm

Aidan Trimble
Aidan Trimble
3 years ago
Reply to  Ben Morris

Ben, you’re probably picturing yourself as coming across as some type of warrior for truth and clarity here, acting as a scourge of comfortable middle class racists. Can I just inform you that you’re not. At all.

Matt Whitby
Matt Whitby
3 years ago

It’s rarely about race. It’s culture

Andy Paul
Andy Paul
3 years ago
Reply to  Matt Whitby

Indeed, yet we live in an age where someone such as the endlessly woke David Lammy can dismiss English ethnicity as a “myth” and be applauded for it!!!

Igor Sagdejev
Igor Sagdejev
3 years ago
Reply to  Matt Whitby

I agree, but the SJWs “defend” the “alternative” cultures (never-worse-than-our-own) too. And label any transgression against them as Racism.

Johnny Sutherland
Johnny Sutherland
3 years ago

Whilst reading the comments I’ve had a brilliant idea. Lets get this commission (ie the same people) to investigate climate change.

Jeff Mason
Jeff Mason
3 years ago

We have the same problems in the US. ‘White privilege’ is the cause of all perceived ills in America including the alleged ‘income disparity’ between blacks and whites. However, when you point out that Asian-Americans and Indian immigrants have, on average, much higher incomes than their white American counterparts, they either change the subject or call you a racist for pointing out an inconvenient fact. Their ‘white privilege,’ ‘institutional racism,’ and ‘micro aggressions’ are so nebulous they cannot be defined objectively. If someone ‘feels’ marginalized or offended, it must be true. This is utter nonsense which is why when someone uses those phrases, I simply ignore them and move on. And for the record, if macro aggressions are so rare that you have to worry about invisible micro aggressions, just count your blessings and move on.

Steve Gwynne
Steve Gwynne
3 years ago

The goal of ‘Black Power’ or ‘Political Blackness’ is institutional and structural positive discrimination for the proponents of ‘Black Power’ or ‘Political Blackness’.

These race opportunists seek to both protect and advance their ‘most favoured status’ by utilising victimhood mentalities (the drama triangle) derived from historical subjugation, weoponising street level subcultural anti-establishment sentiments and leveraging the disadvantages created by self segregating cultural communities.

It is therefore not surprising that Woke Colourists reject family structure, culture, geography and class since it is these metrics that are able to identify the Woke Colourists as the privately educated, black power, metropolitan middle class that they are who will ruthlessly exploit disparities within society in order to legitimise their political opportunism.

These people have no interest whatsoever in cultivating societal harmony or cultivating the much needed cultural space of give and take in which responsibility sits alongside rights since their goal is an institutional and structural racism that benefits them. As such, whenever they perceive that their quest for positive discrimination is being thwarted, as this report does, then they simply scream institutional and structural racism.

If these people are simply the chosen ‘haunted’ few that use their scarred memories of historical subjugation to legitimise their bigotry, gaslighting and quest for power, then perhaps part of the overall solution is cognitive behavioural therapy.

However, allowing these scarred individuals into positions of power is not a healthy option. So along with alternative organisations that can manifest the recommendations of this report, the woke colourist organisations need to be heavily scrutinized too, especially in terms of breaking down the explicit positive discrimination within Woke political charities and Woke political acedemic departments.

Last edited 3 years ago by Steve Gwynne
Natalija Svobodné
Natalija Svobodné
3 years ago

“That ethnic minorities are dying in greater numbers from Covid”
What rubbish! COVID-19 deaths worldwide – Are disproportionately European countries!….Western countries dominate the top 15 countries with the most number of cases!
is it Race related? Weather, DNA, Diet, living conditions, Job related…
What is true historically in all pandemics – it’s the poor that die.
Czechia, Hungary, Belgium, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Slovenia,United Kingdom,Bulgaria,Moldova,Italy,North Macedonia,Slovakia,USA,Portugal

Last edited 3 years ago by Natalija Svobodné
Monty Marsh
Monty Marsh
3 years ago

When comparing vulnerability rates between western and African countries we have to remember the differences in age distributions. In the west, the age distribution is skewed towards the older population. Plus people in the west are more likely to survive health setbacks like heart disease, diabetes etc. In the developing world, a significant portion of the vulnerable cohort are already dead from something else.

Natalija Svobodné
Natalija Svobodné
3 years ago
Reply to  Monty Marsh

Yes, but differences in age are unavoidable. Is not a statistical skew – but a reality! Being old and sick with covid – is likely to be a deadly combination.
people in the west are more likely to survive health setbacks. That is true also –
But look at the differences in culture, we pay tax, we respect rule of law – we don’t splinter off into tribal affiliation (such as south africa has done – and the set out on open war against each other) But rather average out needs – not everyone gets exactly what they want – but near enough.
A significant portion of the vulnerable cohort are already dead from something else, Yes That is true for many years.
A culture of corruption, non functioning governments, tribalism and nepotism – are a very big reason why 40+ years of aid make little dent into life quality of those unfortunate populations. Even darling Nelson Mandela – Who I liked; He came across as reasonable and compassionate, died worth millions!
During Nelson Mandela’s funeral a corruption report found 300m rand ($22m; £16m) was redirected from a development fund to help with costs. earmarked for things like “sanitation, the replacement of mud schools and the refurbishment of hospitals,” Such spending happens time and again!
So although I have sympathy for people living on the edge of poverty – I have come to the conclusion – being a white saviour has done very little to improve things and probably never will. Giving free clothes and food – kills farmers and home industries – every single act of charity has repercussions unimagined!
We don’t know how to navigate the political complexites. We can’t stamp out corruption so we can’t help the people we need to without at the same time enabling tyrants.
In short I feel sorry for Africa, but no I don’t feel obligated to insert myself in into correcting their problems. If they want to respect democracy and human rights in their internal dealing with themselves, then they will have more luck, than they will ever have if we just keep throwing money at them.

Last edited 3 years ago by Natalija Svobodné
Monty Marsh
Monty Marsh
3 years ago

I agree with your assessment of western efforts to assist Africa, a fool’s errand that has been going on for many generations now.

Richard Turpin
Richard Turpin
3 years ago

I think the whole race industry has been thriving in the US and beyond for quite a while now and is greatly helped by many fringe radical left movements who are converging with alarming success across the continents. The likes of Antifa (Unmasked by Andy Ngo is a great reference point to the organisations modus operandi and influence) are pushing race and identity politics to the forefront of their efforts to divide and conquer our modern day society. They believe the tyrannical white male hieracrchies are the root of all the worlds problems. They were heavily involved in the rioting in the US and here in the UK and are a vicious rent a mob intent on causing problems. In order for these organisations to function and continue to spread their divisive propaganda they need money, and through their covert ‘Go Fund Me’ pages have plenty of predominately wealthy white liberals donating millions, literally to their ‘anti -rascist’ cause. It is hugely inconvenient to the left to have a discussion on race and CRT when factual evidence blows their gaslighting propaganda out of the water. ”Black Lies Matter: Why Lies Matter to the Race Grievance Industry ” is another excellent read as to how manipulative the BLM money making machine is regarding facts and figures and most importantly, how rent a mob focuses strategically on perceived racism as opposed to the hugely important questions many committed and law abiding members of the black community want to discuss within their own communities but in doing so, are ironically described as a race traiter for wanting to. Its got some interesting information on the political lobbyists in the US and the amount of black officials across all levels of governance in the major US cities and the level of success and corruption that has followed. Taleeb Starkes who wrote the book is black.
The race industry is thriving and making money like never before. I believe with universities and schools (through the teaching unions supporting the whole identity politics mantra and influencing students accordingly) we are in for an interesting ride.

William Hickey
William Hickey
3 years ago

Douglas Murray today, like Eric Kaufmann yesterday on the same report, misreads the nature of the domestic trouble that Britain is in. Yes, the report of the CRED valorizes an empirical, multivalent understanding of inter-group disparities. It stands solidly behind an objective and pragmatic approach, one which not only acknowledges current problems but also gives credit to the citizenry for the progress already made.

That’s nice, but not nearly enough to stem what’s coming, a disaster whose outlines are already clear.

Reports and good intentions are cheap. Unfortunately, the incentives are all primed the wrong way. Those are what have to be changed.

Liberals and conservatives together made victimization the currency of the realm. Diversity extended victimization to all non-whites AND made it the currency of the universities, the bureaucracy and corporate HR departments.

Here in the US, Victor Davis Hanson has noticed that his formerly conservative non-white and poor ex-students, whom he helped get the skills to compete successfully in the legal, academic and corporate worlds, have become hard left and anti-racist in the last few years. They want to get ahead.

What happened is that when Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton first began guilt-shaming and shaking down Fortune 500 corporations for payoffs, race-neutral equality liberals and MLK-loving conservatives did nothing except offer either appeasement or silence. None of them supported cutting all support for HBCUs and Ivy League schools that taught black nationalism, or boycotting the multinationals who paid the extortion and thus subsidized it.

America wouldn’t be where we are had the advocates of reason taken action then. Instead, they let this cancer metastasize. Now their own children and grandchildren are being taught so-called anti-racism and are learning to either loathe themselves or lie to get by. This is what happens when the good guys leave a weapon lying on the ground. You can’t be surprised if a bad guy picks it up and uses it — on you.

Unless stern, confident measures are taken in Britain to punish those who violate the CRED’s findings, things will get much, much worse. And then it will be too late to cry about the consequences of appeasement, Neville. Even you will have to join Winston’s war cabinet.

Last edited 3 years ago by William Hickey
gideon
gideon
3 years ago

I agree with all of this. When you say Britain’s orthodox community you mean Britain’s Jewish orthodox community not Britain’s Greek Orthodox or any other orthodox. Surely that word needs to be in there to make sense? Or is this a search engine censorship thing?

Last edited 3 years ago by gideon
Adrienne Marriott
Adrienne Marriott
3 years ago

I listened to a radio discussion about this report a couple of days ago. I was very impressed by the ‘black’ lady – one of the authors of the report who was stressing the need for a wide-ranging investigation into the causes of disadvantage in ethnic communities. She was saying that whilst racism and institutional racism did exist the latter wasn’t the sole reason for low attainment in ethnic societies. Chidren from ethnic groups might perform better than white pupils, as described above, so equality of opportunity is not necessarily compromised. I was reading a book by Louise Hay this morning and came across the phrase “You can be addicted to finding fault in people. No matter what happens you will always find someone to blame” which I think is pertinent.

Natalija Svobodné
Natalija Svobodné
3 years ago

“Small-minded people habitually reproach others for their own misfortunes. Average people reproach themselves. Those are are dedicated to a life of wisdom understand that the impulse to blame something or someone is foolishness, that there is nothing to be gained in blaming, whether it be others or oneself.”
The Art of Living – Epictetus

Last edited 3 years ago by Natalija Svobodné
Angus J
Angus J
3 years ago

On the BBC Today programme this morning, an interview was being conducted that made every possible effort to discredit and undermine the authors, methodology, and conclusions of this report. So no surprise there, it’s what the BBC does…

D Ward
D Ward
3 years ago
Reply to  Angus J

You still bother with the Today programme???
Are you a masochist???

Natalija Svobodné
Natalija Svobodné
3 years ago
Reply to  D Ward

A brave optimist maybe, or lost the remote… ;P

Last edited 3 years ago by Natalija Svobodné
Don Gaughan
Don Gaughan
3 years ago

The rationales and pretexts the woke left progressives spew to justify their intolerant tyrannical dogma power grab is based on falaicious logic and distortions of truth.
Their hammer of racism accusation ” logic” can be used to falsely accuse any person of anything.
Ie…They can accuse someone of contibuting to climate change because they exhale carbon dioxide.It matters not that accuser and everyone else in the world is also exhaling carbon dioxide.
The accusation of racism is no different here..the accusers prejudicially single out only one color of human for something they are far more guilty of ( see the racist scapegoating Critical Race Theory) for something universal in humanity ( tribal loyalty and tribal preference).
The accusers of racism are from groups with far more racial intolerance then the free democracies of western civilisation they are now culturallly erasing and racially persecuting.
The human rights of free speech , open debate and due process is being systemically violated by the unhinged progressive tyranny , and the west needs to liberate our countries , cultures and people from the unjust damage they inflict.

Hilary Tait
Hilary Tait
3 years ago

Western Civilization has come down to agonizing whether we are racist or not, and feeling smugly pleased with ourselves to have “evidence” that we’re “not racist”. Ugh. What a pitiful end.

Jeff Carr
Jeff Carr
3 years ago

Maybe we will begin to see some evidence-based public discourse after this report, although I doubt it.
There is a need in certain political quarters for victimhood and there is a whole body of acedemia and charitable organisations whose entire existence is based on the existence of racism. They are not going to give up their comfortable sinecures easily.

julian.davies1961
julian.davies1961
3 years ago

Here’s a little story about prejudice. Back in the 1990s, the IRA were conducting a high profile bombing campaign in London. To counteract the threat, the City of London Police sealed off most entries in to the square mile, and placed manned check-points on few remaining open roads in to the City. One such check-point was located right outside my then place of work, in Bishopsgate.
Almost immediately, my colleagues and I started noticing the frequency with which cars driven by black men were being stopped. Given that the check-points were there to prevent terrorist attacks, usually carried out using vans laden with semtex or fertilizer bombs, the stopping and often deep searching of cars in any case seemed a bit odd to us, and given the quite clear bias towards black drivers, it seemed obvious to us that the stories about the police were possibly true.
Being a fair-minded sort of chap, (then as now,) I undertook to question the officers. So, the next time that I was crossing the road and saw that yet another car driven by a black man was being searched, I approached the officer who was simply standing while his colleague pulled stuff out of the car, and asked him straight out why the City of London poice felt the need to stop so many black drivers when they were supposed to be there to prevent terrorism.
The officer, very politely, invited me to look at the tax disc in the car window. (Remember them?) There wasn’t one! The officer told me that they stopped every car which did not display a valid current tax disc. He then, very politely indeed, told me what a high percentage of untaxed vehicles were also uninsured. I forget the figure, it was something like 90%. He said something very old school police like “We can’t allow uninsured drivers on the roads now, sir, can we?” and told me that when we saw cars being towed away, which, presumably we had, (yes, we had,) that was because they were either not insured, or had no MOT, or because the driver did not have a license. Finally, he told me that when we saw the police carrying out a search of the vehicle, it was usually because they had smelled drugs when the driver had opened the window. “We don’t want to be putting the pubic at risk by allowing people to drive through the City of London under the influence of drugs do we sir?” Indeed I didn’t!

So there you go. That is a story of prejudice. My prejudice, and my colleagues’ prejudice, against the police. We saw them picking on black people. What they were doing, was removing uninsured and drugged up drivers from the road. The next time you hear some politician or some activist say that black people are (7, 8,9, basically insert any figure you like) more likely to get stopped and searched than white people, just think about the Bishopsgate check-point.

Cave Artist
Cave Artist
3 years ago

It’s what he says. If we were living under a German government eighty five years ago, genetic traits would indeed be the hammer to explain everything. Morality as political fashion disguised as progress always makes fools of us

Last edited 3 years ago by Cave Artist
B Taylor
B Taylor
3 years ago

I’m not sure I know what racism is, could someone define it for me. If I dislike my white Anglo Saxon neighbours is that ok. If I dislike my neighbour of colour does that make me racist. The point is there are lots of people like me who really don’t understand racism but does not let that fact stop them expressing opinion and pointing a finger

Natalija Svobodné
Natalija Svobodné
3 years ago
Reply to  B Taylor

It depends on whether you disliked them for their skin colour over if you disliked them based on musical intolerance.
Dirty musikists are everywhere XD

Last edited 3 years ago by Natalija Svobodné
Charles Hedges
Charles Hedges
3 years ago

Nehru attended Harrow, Trinity College Cambridge( read Natural Sciences and The Bar.
Samuel Ajayo Crowther a freed, studied Latin and Greek and became a bishop in in 1864 and was awarded a DD of Oxford University
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Ajayi_Crowther
The introduction of of progessive education within comprehensives in the 1960s removed academic rigour, acdemic selection, streaming, classical music and competitive sports. Consequently, a freed African slave was able to learn Latin and Greek in the 1830s whereas this is denied to those attending comprehensives in then 2020s.
Those passing the 11 plus were able to attend Manchester Grammar School, Christs’ Hospital,King Edward VIth Birmingham and Dulwich College for free until the mid 1970s, now the parents have to pay. There is a vast range of academic ability of teachers . At King Edward VIth Cambrige Top Wranglers taught maths; I doubt theer is a single comprehensive which can offer such excellence. Schools such as those mentioned can inspire a sense of confidence with which to go out and govern the World, comprehensives too often endow a sense of resentment; hence lack of upward social mobility amongst all whom attend.

James Newman
James Newman
3 years ago
Reply to  Charles Hedges

Those passing the 11 plus were able to…

A fair few years have passed but I don’t recall those schools named being quite so open then. I attended a scholarship interview at Dulwich College in 1960 but failed miserably as I was overawed just going up the majestic staircase. Neither of my two selected schoolmates (from a primary school on a large South London council estate) got in either so one assumes there was a strict ration on scholarships. Had to make do with a 350 year old grammar school instead, where i learnt that one must not accept any barriers to achievement, if you are good enough, you will be good enough.

John Brown
John Brown
3 years ago

It is obvious by the use of trendy Americanisms such as “gaslighting” and “lived experience” that critics are more than happy to confuse the glaringly obvious differences between the UK and the US.

How very lazy of them.

Last edited 3 years ago by John Brown
Campbell P
Campbell P
3 years ago

Working in S E London in the late 80s/early 90s, the the greatest empirically founded fundamental factor within the Afro-Caribbean communities giving rise to high levels of violence and lawbreaking and low levels of educational and professional achievement was the absent father. At a conference/presentation at Southwark cathedral on diversity and multiculturalism I was told to keep my mouth shut. The Church of England has kept its mouth shut about such unpalatable (to its naive inclusion politics) truths ever since. If they would only tell the truth rather than live in cloud cuckoo land. Disgraceful!

Andrew Baldwin
Andrew Baldwin
3 years ago

Great op-ed by Douglas, as usual.
I continue to be struck by the way those of South Asian ethnicity seem to punch above their weight in the white-guilt industry. While Azam’s concern is with “black and ethnic minority workers”, only blacks being specifically identified by race, she is not black herself, so why does she take it upon herself to speak for them? If black Britons themselves are enraged by the report of the Commission on Race and Ethnic Disparities why is a denunciation of the report from one of them not front and centre in the debate? I never heard of Azam, and wouldn’t know about her diatribe if it weren’t for Douglas.
It is the same way in Canada. New Democratic Party leader Jagmeet Singh has almost built a career on the white guilt industry, although somewhat bizarrely he now finds himself propping up the government of Justin Trudeau, the world’s most famous blackface hobbyist. I’m an economist, not a sociologist, so I perhaps should leave it to others to speculate why this would be so, but there are a few reasons that come to mind. First, among first generation immigrants, South Asians usually seem to have better English skills than East Asians, although not, of course, blacks from the Caribbean. Second, there is an intersectionality between South Asians and religions that tend to be controversial in the West, Islam and Sikhism, that doesn’t exist so much for East Asians and blacks. (This may change if black immigration comes more from Moslem parts of Africa.)
Black Britons are very good at mastering American accents and taking black American roles in TV and film. The lovely Antonia Thomas, Dr. Claire Browne in “The Good Doctor”, comes to mind. Whether South Asian Brits are just as good at mastering American accents really doesn’t matter. There simply aren’t the same number of roles for South Asians as there are for blacks. So this form of celebrity being denied them, they are forced to settle for the celebrity of being a worker in the white guilt industry. Black Britons also excel at athletics more than their South Asian counterparts, or their white counterparts for that matter, so this would also make pursuing a career in the white guilt industry less attractive for them.

Ben Morris
Ben Morris
3 years ago
Reply to  Andrew Baldwin

‘the white guilt industry’ – hmm, do clarify.

Brian Dorsley
Brian Dorsley
3 years ago
Reply to  Ben Morris

Google Robin DiAngelo and Ibram X. Kendi. These people earn are earning a fortune from telling people they are racist.
Ben, I sense you are a good person, but you need to look deeper at what’s happening. I’m in the US, which is much further along with all this nonsense than the UK. I’m studying elements of this in my doctorate degree. It’s basically a fascist ideology masquerading as a civil rights movement. Unfortunately, the people most taken in by it, are those with good intentions who harbor goodwill toward all.
Critical Race Theory is not like this at all. It is rooted in common enemy politics in an attempt to gather people around a cause and an enemy that can be easily identified. Questioning it is akin to heresy, hence the spate of accusations of racism that are currently being flung around. It builds nothing positive, it just spreads condemnation and hatred.

Stuart Y
Stuart Y
3 years ago
Reply to  Brian Dorsley

Agree with everything you say, apart from “Ben I sense your a good person” I’m sure he loves his mum and dogs and cats but if your talking intellectually he may still be a good person but judging from his input on here is at the very least “challenged “

Natalija Svobodné
Natalija Svobodné
3 years ago
Reply to  Brian Dorsley

Totally! and literally fascist! the ‘Feminist Mein Kampf’ example really upset me. Replacing the word Jew with Man, to be accepted by a leading academic journal!
Academics expose corruption in Grievance Studies https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVk9a5Jcd1k
The satirical paper was accepted this past academic year for publication by Affilia: Journal of Women and Social Work.
This is deeply concerning because the work of grievance scholars goes on to be taught in classes, to design educational curricula, to be taken up by activists
The language of the holocaust never brought freedom.

Last edited 3 years ago by Natalija Svobodné
Kelly Mitchell
Kelly Mitchell
3 years ago

Anybody bothered to poll the black community for attittudes about all this ideology?

Natalija Svobodné
Natalija Svobodné
3 years ago
Reply to  Kelly Mitchell

God no, that’s not something affluent liberals would ever think of or allow! Blacks need to be “saved” They just don’t know what is good for them!
3:03 Thomas Sowell taking on a white liberal
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26QxO49Ycx0

michael harris
michael harris
3 years ago

Please, Ben, write less lazily. Use capital letters, full stops, paragraphs. It makes your arguments a little easier to follow.
I suppose you could go the whole hog (run all the words together, abandon white patriarchal structure altogether). We could enjoy floundering in the primordial language/noise soup.
But who would be the masters then?

Last Jacobin
Last Jacobin
3 years ago
Reply to  michael harris

He does make a good point about how Unherd is supposed to be about independent and free thinking but is actually turning into a Daily Telegraph/Spectator echo chamber. In the case of this article it is merely repeating the views of the government and 80% of the UK media to attack the government’s political opponents.

Joseph McCord
Joseph McCord
3 years ago

The solution is to just leave the UK, and hand the country over the minorities entirely. Maybe that would be a solution that would actually satisfy the grievance industry.
There are plenty of other places in the world where millions of Britons of British ethnicities could relocate themselves to. And, Elon Musk is planning on starting a colony on Mars.

davidalankavanagh
davidalankavanagh
3 years ago
Reply to  Joseph McCord

I thought that when Barack Obama became president . . . . . . . . . . .

Kathryn Richards
Kathryn Richards
3 years ago
Reply to  Joseph McCord

Where? Where is there now that isn’t going down the same road?
Did you read about the school in Australia which made the boys stand up in assembly and apologise to the girls?

Elizabeth W
Elizabeth W
3 years ago

What?! I keep saying what next but every time I turn around there is something more ridiculous happening. Our children are being taught such propaganda.

Natalija Svobodné
Natalija Svobodné
3 years ago

Or the hospital that will treat patients based on racial quotas…
Brigham and Women’s Hospital announces plans to discriminate and deny treatment to patients based on skin color
https://bostonreview.net/science-nature-race/bram-wispelwey-michelle-morse-antiracist-agenda-medicine?eType=EmailBlastContent&eId=196dd024-e646-4c72-a622-695b3e40aae0

D Ward
D Ward
3 years ago
Reply to  Joseph McCord

I want to uptick you but the system won’t let me. Grrrrr

Simon Flynn
Simon Flynn
3 years ago

.
Douglas – think your brilliant, but PLEASE look up the meaning of ‘fulsome’, so that you stop using it wrongly.
.

David Morley
David Morley
3 years ago
Reply to  Simon Flynn

That’s you’re I believe.

Eddie Johnson
Eddie Johnson
3 years ago
Reply to  Simon Flynn

Doesn’t the Webster’s definition appease you?:
acharacterized by abundance

Sue Sims
Sue Sims
3 years ago
Reply to  Simon Flynn

I’m not sure whether he’s using it wrongly or not. If by ‘fulsomely quoted’ he means ‘plentifully quoted’, that would be incorrect – but if he means that the writers he’s referring to are effectively praising and flattering Rehana Azam, then it would be fine. There’s no way of telling.

Bill Blake
Bill Blake
3 years ago

What I feel would help when institutional racism is claimed is to spell out why it isn’t. Eg with stop and search – this is often done in areas where there are higher crimes rates. And some of those may have more of one race than another.

Natalija Svobodné
Natalija Svobodné
3 years ago
Reply to  Bill Blake

 “spell out why an institution isn’t racist”
Because that is called shifting the burden of proof. A logical fallacy.
Explanation: Jack makes a claim that requires proof. (institution x is racist)
Nick asked for evidence, but Jack shifts the burden of proof to Nick. When Nick was unable to refute Jack’s (unfalsifiable) claim, Jack claimed victory.
So for instance shifting the burden of proof I might say: “Unicorns exist unless someone proves that they do not exist.”
Or “The institution is racist unless someone proves that they are not racist.”
The real claim should look like this: “The institute is racist because (insert proof here)”
Unfalsifiable claims are often faith-based, and not founded on evidence and reason. In short, the people making the claim of institutional racism must carry the burden of proof to justify or substantiate that claim.

Last edited 3 years ago by Natalija Svobodné
michael stanwick
michael stanwick
3 years ago

“…Labour leader Keir Starmer said that he found it “disappointing”, because there is still “a reluctance to accept that that’s structural”. For his part, Starmer has invested heavily in the “racism is institutional” narrative, and so of course it must be deeply unsatisfying for someone to suggest that any remaining issues cannot simply be solved by, for instance, “taking the knee”.”
Hmm. This seems to me to be inside the domain of the genetic fallacy. It is irrelevant to the veracity of Starmer’s ‘racism is structural’ argument (whatever that is) whether he has invested heavily in the “racism is institutional” narrative.

Brian Dorsley
Brian Dorsley
3 years ago

With which parts do you disagree?

Joe Lynn
Joe Lynn
3 years ago

Either that or you need to peddle ‘arrgh the Lefites!’ line in order to line your own pockets. Entertaining, in a low-brow, local aged clown way.

Μαργαρίτα Τάντση
Μαργαρίτα Τάντση
3 years ago

It is a disease rapidly spread around Europe.
Yesterday, in the Greek news bulletin an attack against an Asian woman by a black, male perpetrator was described as “racist attack”!!!
So, in the same logic all attacks are racist as they are executed when a certain trait of the victim did not please the perpetrator (that trait could be even wealth).
Hence, a notion (racism) that much stretched is deprived of all its meaning.

Paul Blakemore
Paul Blakemore
3 years ago

During the moral panic about a ‘growing number of racist incidents’ due to Brexit (allegedly) the only incident I witnessed myself was an East European bloke making monkey noises at a black security guard who had pulled him up about something in the City of London; the only conviction I read about in the local press was an Asian taxi driver who had called a black woman a ”black b**ch”. Given the actual circumstances of the latter case it was a complete waste of court time, and the name calling (loss of temper) was understandable.

Ben Morris
Ben Morris
3 years ago

I don’t understand what you are saying. Are you saying an attack on an Asian woman by a black male cannot be racist?

Ralph Withers
Ralph Withers
3 years ago

On 12 November 2020, the Guardian reported, One of the key points found in “Black People, Racism and Human Rights”, a new report from the House of Commons and House of Lords Joint Committee on Human Rights, is not only that racial progress is far from advancing, but that some things are getting worse. The report found that 75% of blacks in the UK felt they don’t have the same rights as whites and included in this was the claim that access to education was one area affected. Reading the report, you might notice that it opens with a background on George Floyd’s death and BLM. BLM is described as a human rights movement.
The Guardian, in contrast to its reaction to the new report from the Commission on Race and Ethnic Disparities, takes the Joint Committee on Human Rights findings on faith and expects its readers to do the same. It provides no critical examination of the report and its familiar demands to address the alleged systemic racism in the UK. This despite the witnesses heard by the Joint Committee on Human Rights appearing to be people who, arguably, have a vested interest in perpetuating the existence of systemic racism. I’m no expert in research methods but those used in the November 2020 report look selective enough to introduce bias – an alleged random sample from a non-random pool, as these extracts suggest:
The polling research was conducted among a representative sample drawn from ClearView’s existing database which includes thousands of people from the black community, who have taken part in previous research studies and participants identified through local and strategic partner organisations. The sample was larger than would generally be expected for a poll that looks at the views of people in the black community.
…we commissioned ClearView Research, a Black led research organisation, to carry out qualitative and quantitative research into Black people’s views on whether their human rights are equally protected in the UK.
We are also very grateful to Kenny Imafidon, co-founder and Managing Director of ClearView Research, who acted as a Specialist Adviser to the Committee on this inquiry, in a personal capacity.
The Joint Committee on Human Rights that produced the November 2020 report was led by a barrister (Labour MP Harriet Harman). She was not the only committee member qualified as a lawyer. If these same lawyers found themselves defending a client accused of systemic racism based on the evidence relied on in their report, would their advocacy skills be challenged attempting to discredit the flawed methodology or would it be a walk in the park? Perhaps Tom Chivers could compare and contrast the two reports using his expertise in statistics and research methodologies.

Ben
Ben
3 years ago

“I suppose as someone who also grew up in the 70s and 80s I find it sad that the tremendous progress that has been made is ignored by today’s ‘social justice warriors’ “
And why is this? Because there are too many vested interests including the mainstream media that depend on fuelling racial dissent in order to fill up the 24/7 news agenda. 
They’ve run out of anything else to report on…much easier to go for the jugular knowing it will inflame your audience if you keep prodding the race wound. That way you hang on to them and therefore to your advertising revenues. It comes down to the bottom line and the public are manipulated in the process…

Last edited 3 years ago by Ben
K Sheedy
K Sheedy
3 years ago

Structural Racism = Overt policies which discriminate based on race/culture. eg Apartheid
Institutional Racism = accepted norms and behaviours common in an organisation which cause discrimination based on race/culture. e.g. An assumption that black people are more aggressive than whites and so are more likely to have started a fight.
Unconscious Racism = Assumptions humans make about races/cultures which lead to discrimination (positive or negative) based on race/culture.
On this basis:
Unconscious Racism will always exist, everywhere there are humans (black or white or whatever) and we should all be on our guard against it.
Institutional racism does exist in the UK but we are doing some good work addressing it. Education is a leader here – with more work to do.
Structural Racism – is no longer acceptable in the UK. Like drink driving, we managed to make is socially unacceptable.
Bottom line, good effort, some real progress, a job that will never be complete.

Mary Garner
Mary Garner
3 years ago

I do not agree with the comment I have posted below I dared to suggest. Thst maybe the report had positives and would be more useful combatting racism in my Active Citizens group in Liverpool
I was immediately jumped on and got replies like this also saying to sZy things better than 70s is an illusion

It is really difficult to engage in debate which is so depressing

“The fundamental flaw in my view is the cognitive dissonance, between the view that societal racism exists, but not institutional racism. Yet another e.g of the government blaming the individual and a solving themselves of any responsibilities. The problem with evidence based research and using the data, is the data is always subjectively interpreted through the researchers lens and positionality. It is not objective as people like to think “

David C.
David C.
3 years ago

The greater problem is Institutional Stupidity. The hammer of Institutional Racism requires an ignorance of the basic science of statistics, for starters. As someone who wants to call himself a leftist and progressive, I’m frightened by the direction society is taking. The example in this article is only one of several I’ve experienced of willful stupidity within the framework of society’s institutions. As a 53 year old who’s worked in government, journalism, and academia, I’ve witnessed the gradual decline since the late 90s.

Ben Morris
Ben Morris
3 years ago

This isn’t ageing at all well. Senior race advisor has left No 10. Various experts say their names were put on the report without their participation or consent. And David Olusoga has written this:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/apr/02/sewell-race-report-historical-young-people-britain?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Jos Haynes
Jos Haynes
3 years ago

Well, it won’t allow F**k. It thinks I mean Flak. What is the point of censored comment?

Ben Morris
Ben Morris
3 years ago

You could not invent a clearer example of projection than this piece: Maslow’s Hammer should be renamed Murray’s. Here he is ‘banging on’ about his pet hate – ‘establishment liberals’ – when he could actually be sharing a thorough examination of the new report, and bringing facts to bear in his assessment. But no, let’s just have yet another hammer at some liberals, because that’s what we do… very dull.

Simon Hoban
Simon Hoban
3 years ago

The report is already being dismantled by most of the media.

Last edited 3 years ago by Simon Hoban
Elise Davies
Elise Davies
3 years ago
Reply to  Simon Hoban

By most of the Left wing media, Si
FTFY

Gerald O'Connell
Gerald O'Connell
3 years ago

The problem is that some institutions demonstrate clearly racist behaviour. The Home Office’s conduct throughout the Windrush scandal is a case in point. http://oconnellomics.com/racism-and-the-hostile-environment/

Richard Gasson
Richard Gasson
3 years ago

The hammer was used in this instance, surely. It was the hammer saying “institutional racism” rather than ineptitude, lazyness and the easy option of low hanging fruit.

michael stanwick
michael stanwick
3 years ago

Was it demonstrated that the intent was clearly racist or was it due to unintentional, discriminatory bureaucracy within the Home office?
‘Institutional racism’ and ‘structural racism’ are not mere labels. They have two definitions – one that you allude to, that at an institutional level an organisational b bureaucracy may exhibit racist outcomes, and another that has its origins in critical race theory.
I think it is the latter that is being promulgated, by an ideology that has a worldview based on concepts that are asserted and undemonstrated in the real world.

Last Jacobin
Last Jacobin
3 years ago

The intent was clearly racist – as was the outcome. It was part of a concerted policy to appear to be tough on immigration to win votes from people who didn’t want immigration.
At a time when the government felt they couldn’t restrict immigration from EU countries (largely white) it turned attention to non EU immigration which meant, inevitably, a greater proportion of non-white people.
The EHRC reported on the Policy and said it was unlawful.

michael stanwick
michael stanwick
3 years ago
Reply to  Last Jacobin

Thanks for your reply.
But the criteria, as I understand it as you have laid it out, was related to preventing immigration? They couldn’t restrict immigration from EU countries, that just so happened to have a majority white populations, but could restrict immigration from non EU countries, that just so happened to have non white majority populations?
So was the outcome based on a matter of a collapse in choice to only one option, and that option had the secondary characteristic of a particular population demographic, or was that collapse in choice based on another criteria that determined it – namely the type of population demographics in that option?

Last Jacobin
Last Jacobin
3 years ago

Any policy, in UK law, is required to have an Equality Impact Assessment. This was made law in 2010 by the same party of government that introduced the Hostile Environment Policy. The government did not undertake that impact assessment of its policy.
The policy was not related to restricting immigration, it was related to appearing to restrict immigration. The methods chosen included restricting the rights of people already living in the UK (to work, housing, healthcare) and ultimately to deport those people.
Whether the option was a secondary characteristic or not it was deliberate and its disproportionate racial impact raised with government and publicised at the time but not considered by the government.
At best, the government could be accused (and were by the Equality and Human Rights Commission) of illegal negligence. I think it more likely it was planned and the publicity around black and brown people being forcibly removed from the country (illegally, as it turned out) fulfilled the government’s objective of appearing to be tough on immigration and winning the support of anti-immigrant voters.

Giulia Khawaja
Giulia Khawaja
3 years ago

But was the Windrush scandal deliberate? Or was it, as I thought at the time, that the people dealing with it knew nothing about Windrush? had probably never heard of it? The records, such as they were, seemed to have been destroyed or lost, I imagine many younger people had no idea about Windrush.

Last Jacobin
Last Jacobin
3 years ago
Reply to  Giulia Khawaja

That wouldn’t explain why, despite all the court cases and appeals that were very public, the government persisted with the policy. How could people working in the Home Office on immigration not be aware of the history of immigration into the UK?

Jos Haynes
Jos Haynes
3 years ago
Reply to  Last Jacobin

Most people of the generation below mine have absolutely no idea of anything. They have been the unfortunate recipients of what passes for a modern education – like you, I guess.

Last Jacobin
Last Jacobin
3 years ago

Glad Murray and most commenters here have come round to believing in the concept of intersectionality:
 “the interconnected nature of social categorisations such as race, class, and gender, regarded as creating overlapping and interdependent systems of discrimination or disadvantage”. OED
Not sure why it’s taken them so long when the left have been banging on about it for ages.

Alex Lekas
Alex Lekas
3 years ago
Reply to  Last Jacobin

Their argument remains constant: it’s used as yet another crutch for blaming unseen forces for things that happen to people. Well, certain people. If something negative occurs to a straight, white, religious male, no excuses are offered. But substitute any of those terms for one of the grievance groups, and it’s ID politics in a different coat.

Last Jacobin
Last Jacobin
3 years ago
Reply to  Alex Lekas

That’s not true, Alex. Take the example of white boys not doing well at school in UK – people are looking for what might be behind it – poverty, poor housing, lack of role models, unemployment, family breakdown, culture, racism, etc etc and to develop ways of mitigating it.

Alex Lekas
Alex Lekas
3 years ago
Reply to  Last Jacobin

Of course, it’s true, and your example makes the point. When non-whites do poorly, the first and only explanation offered is racism. Raising any of the points you cite is itself treated as an example of racism.
People have to stop treating minorities as children and mascots, and see them as free individuals with all that entails, including the consequences of their decisions.

David Morley
David Morley
3 years ago
Reply to  Alex Lekas

I think there’s a subtle point to made here. There is no doubt that causal factors such as poverty play a role. But emphasising this may not be productive because it denies agency and responsibility.
It may be more effective to put the emphasis on responsibility and the role of ones own efforts.

David Morley
David Morley
3 years ago
Reply to  Last Jacobin

You’re right, of course, Mark – but there is a strong tendency to blame certain groups for their behaviours, while seeking to excuse the poor behaviour of others.
I would even say it depends on the issue being framed and the ideology at work.
Underperforming white boys qua underperforming white boys are seen as victims. In another context – qua white males – they will be seen as oppressors. As victims they get “excuses”, as “oppressors” they get none.

Last edited 3 years ago by David Morley
michael stanwick
michael stanwick
3 years ago
Reply to  Alex Lekas

My small point would be that the “unseen forces” are predicated on a belief that there is a quasi religious, mysterious force inherent to reality, called “power”.

Natalija Svobodné
Natalija Svobodné
3 years ago
Reply to  Last Jacobin

I think i’ve come around to understanding the danger of an Intersectional culture that judges by race and gender and attaches moral significance to those categories…
Intersectionality: People are viewed in terms of the number of claims to victimisation that they have, and through this ideology, which wants to place people into broad racial categories, moral and immoral is determined based on how much power a person’s particular racial group has.
intersectionality focuses too much on group identities, which can lead it to ignore the fact that people are individuals, not just members of a class. Ignoring this can cause intersectionality to lead to a simplistic analysis and inaccurate assumptions about how a person’s values and attitudes are determined.
The other problem is that that the special interest groups for each category claim to represent the individual. For example feminism claims to speak universally for all women! – I find that idea laughable! I require and wish to speak for myself! I don’t condone special interest groups to be made on my behalf creating policy I don’t condone. policy that is made and created in an undemocratic way.(Fewer than one in five young women would call themselves a feminist, polling in the UK and US suggests.)
There are in short limitations in categories that dont give voice to the many variations of thought and individuality within those set categories!
Intersectionality also sounds an awful lot like apartheid to me, each category based on its race and morality, then allocated resources and rights.. I doubt any amount of good can come from such a racist and divisive idea.
Intersectionality is in conflict with human rights values! That all people are equal regardless of race, sex, creed. It’s a far cry from equal human rights based on humanity.
Dehumanize: to deprive of human qualities or attributes; divest people of their of individuality
Apartheid: a policy or system of segregation or discrimination on grounds of race.
The way that works it’s called common humanity identity politics. identity politics is not bad but if it’s organized by common hatred of the enemy it gets ugly quick, and never works!
Common humanity identity politics is the universal recognition of common humanity. We are all humans and therefore we all deserve to be treated in such a way that we would want others to treat us. All social justice movements grew from that intrinsic root.
“I intend to destroy segregation by positive and embracing methods. When my brothers try to draw a circle to exclude me, I shall draw a larger circle to include them. Where they speak out for the privileges of a puny group, I shall shout for the rights of all mankind” ~ Pauli Murray
A society ought to attempt to promote individuality as it is a prerequisite for creativity and diversity. A social outlook that emphasizes the moral worth of the individual, through their own actions. To value independence and self-reliance the right of the individual to freedom and self-realization, to possess individual characteristics as opposed to traditional or popular mass opinions and behaviors.
Jonathan Haidt: The Three Terrible Ideas Weakening Gen Z and Damaging Universities and Democracies (51:02) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5IGyHNvr7E

Last edited 3 years ago by Natalija Svobodné
Ben Morris
Ben Morris
3 years ago

I’d love to know how many of the frothing maniacs in these comments are any colour other than white, and yet here they all are, the white guys, offering their utterly unqualified self satisfied drivel on a subject about which they know nothing.

Ralph Windsor
Ralph Windsor
3 years ago
Reply to  Ben Morris

Well, how grateful we must be that someone as wise, virtuous and, indeed, well qualified as you know you are should occasionally come among us.

Last edited 3 years ago by Ralph Windsor
Coleman Silk
Coleman Silk
3 years ago
Reply to  Ben Morris

Surely you have enough wisdom to know that neither a person’s skin colour nor gender has any bearing on the strength of his argument? That’s determined by the cumulative weight of the logic and reasoning used and the evidence adduced. If anything, a forum such as this, where a poster’s gender and race and the like are essentially unknown, allows us to assess the argument without those superficial concerns.
More worryingly, you resort to two fatal fallacies: you think non-white skin confers respect for statements made about race and, worse still, you resort to name-calling. All your contributions on this article have been like this. Please make an argument, and then perhaps someone can engage meaningfully with you.

Ben Morris
Ben Morris
3 years ago
Reply to  Coleman Silk

It’s quite simple, really. There aren’t arguments being made here. There is just a generalised resentment against some kind of perceived orthodoxy of thinking. If we accept, as I think most commentators do, that race relations in a multiracial society are going to need some careful and sensitive management in order to avoid the kinds of problems with which history is all too populated, then we are going to have to audit the way our society is functioning, looking at drivers of resentment and frustration and trying to bring a satisfactory resolution to these issues. Neither Douglas Murray, nor I, nor almost anyone on here I suspect, has experienced, for example, Stop and Search, has been racially insulted by a stranger, has been born into a situation where all surrounding expectations, within and without their family, were of a low social status, and prejudice at the hands of numerous authorities, many of which have been extremely well documented. The number of instances of police prejudice alone, within recent years, and possibly overall in decline, but nonetheless setting a powerful and disturbing expectation is quite enough to support a claim of institutional racism, as indeed Lord Macpherson concluded in his report. This is not, as numerous commentators here quite bafflingly assume, to claim ‘all white people’ are racist, but it is essentially to show willing to offer support to underrepresented minorities to attain a full sense of equal participation in our society. Murray’s piece is just a thin piece of liberal-baiting, and has really nothing to say about the detail of the No10 report – he’s much more interested in the reaction to it in the ‘bien pensant’ press. The useful question to ask is ‘what can I do, in my everyday life, to work to improve the interracial harmony, the sense of common purpose, the sense of justice and satisfaction of my community?’ I think this is a fair question for people of all shades of political opinion to ask themselves. It’s about social responsibility. So, coming back to the report, I am sure some of it is good and interesting, and other areas less so, like all such offerings. Murray isn’t interested in that though. He just wants to have a go at his pet hate, the idea of ‘institutional racism’. without even bothering to attempt to construct an argument to prove it doesn’t exist. My own view is that where institutional racism exists, it must be removed. It’s pretty simple. Where it doesn’t exist, then fine, no problem. My strong suspicion is that there are many commentators on here who will not even countenance the idea that such a thing could exist, and they believe this purely because it serves their own agenda. Nothing new in that. But the people who disagree with them, many basing their opinion on experiences these commentators could never have had, are not going to go away. So this place, UnHerd, supposedly a place of challenging, fresh, free thinking, becomes a self-perpetuating echo-chamber of angry right-wing extremists, who will not engage with reality, but whose behaviour I am afraid I find all too Herd like.
Meanwhile, life goes on, and I for one will be trying to make sure I have at least some kind of idea of challenges we face on our hopeful journey towards a better and more equal and inclusive society.

Charles Hedges
Charles Hedges
3 years ago
Reply to  Ben Morris

Many inner city primary schools and comprehensives lack the academic rigour to teach subjects to sufficiently high standards for pupils to read STEM subjects, modern and classical languages at the top 5 to 10 universities. Solve this problem and one will increase upward social mobility for all pupils; the same in the USA.

Paul Blakemore
Paul Blakemore
3 years ago
Reply to  Ben Morris

To comment on some of your points: My feeling is that the report of the Commission under discussion reflects the realities of modern British society (as I see it) much more accurately than the vision of BLM/The Guardian etc. Yes, racism exists, but extraordinary progress has been made and many of the inequalities that exist are due to factors beyond race. Boys being raised by single parents (mothers) as a major factor for black Afro-Caribbean poverty/failure for example; drug taking and criminality are other factors (also for the white working class).
Having grown up in an environment of low-expectation in the 70s I think the ‘victim of structural racism’ world view actually undermines aspiration and hope; particularly for young black people, and is a barrier to success in life. Looking back at the 60s/70s when I was growing up we were all pretty poor – black, brown and white – but the Asian kids aspired to get on, were encouraged to do so by parents who knew there were opportunities available in England. Their success was largely charged by this background. Many of the black and white kids took a different path; drugs and various subcultures etc. Much fun was doubtless had, but the price was a lower level of economic ‘success’. As a white working class youth I was stopped plenty of times by the police, but reading about the number of times this happens to young black men in London today, yes, this is shocking. But then so is the level of knife crime. Young black men are the main victims of knife crime. The commission suggest the police use body cams to increase accountability/transparency.
The report focuses on improving life chances for disadvantaged groups: so includes measures such as more apprenticeships. It suggests dropping the term BAME – so as to focus on groups that actually face problems, not just lumping everyone into two amorphous groups of ‘white and non-white’ which are set up in opposition…
I’ll leave it at that as a longer comment would be too much.

Charles Hedges
Charles Hedges
3 years ago
Reply to  Paul Blakemore

What is ignored is that Britain was bankrupt by 1942. As late as the 1970s, there were still bomb sites.
The UK encouraged immigration but did not think about the consequences. Perhaps the major problem in post war Britain was housing. New houses were needed to replace the slums and those destroyed during the bombing, which was accute in London. Where people settled in London from the West Indies there was a shortage of factories. A way of assimilating an immigrant workforce, both teenagers and older is through work. In London the largest form of employment of men in manual labour is the construction industry which is largely influenced by family connections.
A major issue in London Schools from the mid 1960s, was the lack of competitive sport, so teenagers were hanging around the streets until their parents came home from work. West Indian families were very strict but from the mid 1960s discipline largely disappeared from comprehensives. By the 1980s some families from the West Indies and Africa were sending their children back for schooling due to a lack of discipline in London comprehensives.Cannabis became popular from the 1960s. Also the school leaving age was raised. The result was that many young West Indian teenagers rebelled against the discipline of the parents, played on the streets and had difficulty getting work due to a lack of factories and connections to the construction industry.
A way of reducing disgruntled youth is to look at Switzerland where there are connection between school, business and government. Start training in a trade at 14 years of age and return to school for specific academic training. The Devil provides mischief for idle hands. If businesses supported sports clubs ( as they used to ), teenagers after the age of 14 years would be gainfully employed from 8 am and then playing hard sport fropm 5:30pm to 7pm and then home for dinner. They would not be on the street being drawn into trouble.

Paul Blakemore
Paul Blakemore
3 years ago
Reply to  Charles Hedges

You make a lot of good points; I played on bomb sites myself as a kid. Young people having a job and some purpose would indeed go a long way in solving some of today’s problems.

Natalija Svobodné
Natalija Svobodné
3 years ago
Reply to  Charles Hedges

Well living in switzerland I can tell you – kids don’t hang out on the streets at all. At least not the swiss kids they are just too busy. (at age 11 they already choose their career! and work towards it like maniacs)
The police a few years ago did a breakdown in offending and did come up with some interesting findings though.
Preliminary results point to the possibility that structured leisure-time activities (“hobbies”) are far more common among Swiss compared to migrant youths, and that “hanging around in the streets” and other “risky” life-styles are more common among young people from Balkan and other countries of emigration
. In addition to this, Bosnian families and neighbourhoods may control juveniles far more tightly than what young people may experience nowadays in Western Europe. Even Bosnian parents may feel helpless when confronted with the unlimited opportunities (including those to offend) their offspring is finding in any Western country.
The aspect of neighbourhoods I found interesting, I think it’s hard for most western people to think of policing other peoples kids, surely the loss of that has a big effect on cultures used to more out-door socialisation.
https://www.ius.uzh.ch/dam/jcr:ffffffff-e941-0562-0000-00005ada8dbf/Paradiselost.pdf

Last edited 3 years ago by Natalija Svobodné
Natalija Svobodné
Natalija Svobodné
3 years ago
Reply to  Ben Morris

“He just wants to have a go at his pet hate, the idea of ‘institutional racism’. without even bothering to attempt to construct an argument to prove it doesn’t exist
No he wants people to substantiate their claims and make logical arguments!
What you are doing is called shifting the burden of proof. 
A logical fallacy.
Explanation: Jack makes a claim that requires proof. (institution x is racist)
Nick asked for evidence, but Jack shifts the burden of proof to Nick. When Nick was unable to refute Jack’s (unfalsifiable) claim, Jack claimed victory.
So for instance shifting the burden of proof and making a fallacious argument I might say: “The institution is racist unless someone proves that they are not racist.”
In the same format – Or Unicorns exist unless somebody proves they don’t exist.
The real claim should look like this: “The institute is racist because (insert proof here)”
Unfalsifiable claims are often faith-based, and not founded on evidence and reason. In short, the people making the claim of institutional racism must carry the burden of proof to justify or substantiate that claim
Of course this statement would also require the presupposition racism as the primary cause to be proven! through the institutions learning materials, policy to students or staff interactions. (which all overwhelmingly want students to do well! )
Rather than factor in to other factors at play such as poverty, unstable household, missing fathers, drugs, violence and abuse, lack of academic achievement in parents which in turn affects children, poor parenting style, group dynamic, crime, values, poor ability to prepare children for life. (none of which require the epithet of racism)
The honest question would really be Why are black kids having difficulty, what is happening that is impacting, what makes a successful learner in our society.
But it has already been decided that racism is the cause, with no other research or thought taken! This is not just harmful to students but to society at whole

Last edited 3 years ago by Natalija Svobodné
Ben Morris
Ben Morris
3 years ago

Fair enough that institutional racism should not be presumed to exist where no evidence exists. But I think the reaction to this report since it came out is a pretty sure sign of its failings. No 10’s senior race advisor Samuel Kasumu has left claiming the atmosphere was toxic, various experts have been cited by the report and now claim they were never even consulted, and there has been widespread criticism of various aspects of the report. Here’s what David Olusoga has to say:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/apr/02/sewell-race-report-historical-young-people-britain?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other