X Close

The messiness of male desire Their sex drives are kinkier than women's

Sub-optimal sexuality (Photo by David McNew/Getty Images)

Sub-optimal sexuality (Photo by David McNew/Getty Images)


March 13, 2024   5 mins

In February 2021, the writer Luc Sante was killing the lockdown dead-time by running pictures of himself through FaceApp, seeing what he might look like as a woman. The effect was powerful. Life-altering, in fact. In the app’s feminised image, Sante felt he was seeing his — her — true self, a female self. Lucy. Two weeks later, Sante came out as trans in an email circulated to 30 or so friends.

“When I saw her,” wrote Sante, referring to Lucy, “I felt something liquefy in the core of my body. I trembled from my shoulders to my crotch. I guessed that I had at last met my reckoning.” This was not a sudden whim for Sante, then aged 66, but a longstanding fixation made finally undeniable. As evidence, Sante included in the letter a list of recurrent “masturbation scenarios”, all of which involve coerced feminisation: “cast as a girl in the school play, then persuaded to go out on the town in costume; hired as an assistant by a wealthy society woman who amuses herself by dressing me up as a girl; new roommate assigned to me in college has been dressing as a girl for years and has a full wardrobe.”

Sante’s friends were uniformly warm and positive in response. One female colleague wrote back to say it was “exciting to have another great female writer”. Only one person replied critically — a trans woman, who told Sante: “My only note so far is that I wouldn’t mention your crotch in connection with a realisation about your gender identity, because any mention of genitalia or crotches instantly brings up all sorts of bizarre paranoid delusions that trans women are just transitioning as part of some kind of sexual fetish.”

Sante bridled a little at the judgement, given that this was a private letter to a small group, but changed the word “crotch” for “belly”. And then — this is the fascinating part — reverted to “crotch” for the least private possible audience, republishing the original letter in a new memoir, I Heard Her Call My Name. In fact, Sante seems entirely blithe about the crotch mentions, announcing near the end of the book that: “my dysphoria was never centred on or even especially concerned with genitalia. (Although it is extremely exciting to have tits.)” Bottom surgery is presumably not on the to-do list.

It hardly seems to require any “bizarre paranoid delusion” to see evidence of a fetish at work. But for Sante’s trans woman correspondent, the anxiety was presumably about saying the quiet part out loud. Since the start of this century, trans activism has pushed a “born this way” narrative of gender identity — and at the same time, aggressively rejected any implication that a man might have a sexual motivation for identifying as a woman.

This is despite the fact that we are supposedly in a more permissive era than ever before. “Kinkshaming” is the great taboo: it’s a worse faux pas to wrinkle your nose at someone else’s peccadillos than it is to flaunt your own. And yet this is also an era with a great intolerance of male displays of sexuality in culture. While the underworld of pornography propagates unchecked horrors, the oversexed male mainstream writer is a subject of open derision. There are few more crushing satires than the “men writing women” meme: “She breasted boobily to the stairs and titted downwards…”

“The big filthy beasts of the 20th century look tawdry and dated”

A lot of men’s writing about women has been ludicrously sexist, and in recognition of that fact, a great many male authors today — who come, on the whole, from the nice liberal side of the tracks, and would be alarmed at being cast as “anti woman”, especially in a heavily feminised publishing industry — have tended to stow their libidos. By contrast, the big filthy beasts of the 20th century look tawdry and dated: Philip Roth, John Updike, Martin Amis, standing awkwardly in the corner with their dicks in their hands. In the mid-to-late 20th century, their openness about desire was revelatory — part of the great post-war liberation. In the 21st century (and especially after #MeToo) they’re treated with more suspicion: less literary explorers of the libidinous underworld, more cringy self-pleasurers. The only heirs left to that literary tradition seem to be trans women writers, such as Sante or Torrey Peters, whose novel Detransition, Baby is a riot of sissy porn and flopping testicles. Perhaps the stigma about “breasting boobily” goes away when the male authors in question have grown their own.

Male desire can be a forbidding subject for women. Whether as a consequence of nature or nurture, men’s sexuality tends to be a more consuming presence in their lives than it is for women. In a bell curve distribution, there will be significant overlap — but men in general have higher sexer drives than women. Men also tend to have weirder sex drives than women: paraphilias, the fancy sexologist work for “kink”, are considerably more common in men than in women.

This is uncomfortable knowledge, and for women it can be nicer to ignore it.  For men, meanwhile, sustaining a “decent” life while suspecting yourself of being thoroughly indecent within can become intolerable. Sante writes often about the strain of repression. And the trans writer Debbie Hayton described managing autogynephilia as “like someone trying to hold down a beach ball underwater, only for it to force its way to the surface”. Alasdair Gray — author of Poor Things, and one of the greatest of all literary perverts — wrote that “unless we bring one of our wicked little dreams just a wee bit to life we live like zombies”.

Women, often, would simply rather not know about this aspect of men. It is disturbing, alien, disruptive. That perhaps explains why Sante’s woman colleague was able to skip past the “crotch” sentence and arrive at the comfortable conclusion that Sante was now “female”. It explains why many female readers of Detransition, Baby seemed to overlook the dirty bits and neuter it into being a novel about “womanhood”.

“Male desire can be a forbidding subject for women.”

But it explains too why there was a response of unmitigated disgust from some women who recognised Detransition, Baby for the work of honest filth it is. When Peters was long-listed for the Women’s Prize in 2021, the objection from some gender critical campaigners was not only that it should have been ineligible by dint of Peters’ sex (a fair point), but also that its content made it illegitimate.

“Had a female author submitted a culturally regressive, sadomasochistic, misogynistic ‘surrendered wife’ narrative to the Women’s Prize, it would rightly have been ignored by the judges,” said one angry open letter to the Women’s Prize. Actually, Sally Rooney’s Normal People, with multiple scenes of sadomasochistic sex between its two protagonists, was long-listed in 2019, so this criticism doesn’t ring true. What was objectionable about Peters’ book was maybe that, unlike the melancholic Rooney novel, it appeared to be written by someone who was having a thoroughly good time getting mucky.

Yet men’s sexuality seems, on the whole, to be something women ought to be interested in. After all, almost all of us live with or alongside men. Some of us sleep with them too. The truth should be more valuable than the nice-guy mythology: knowing what a man wants entails no obligation to consent to it. To respond with disgusted calls for men to censor themselves — or worse, with the ladylike self-censorship of Butler — is to wilfully choose ignorance.

There’s a complication, though. Desires are not just inherent: they’re also imitative. Part of Sante’s journey to transition is the slow-burn of a lifetime of fantasy; part of it is the easy access to an online community that reinforces the wish. For most of Sante’s existence, “becoming a woman” was an impossible urge. Only when technology makes it tangible did it become a consuming obsession. There should be space in the world for the honest — and hopefully intelligent — disclosure of the male libido, as for the female. But it may be men who pay the highest price for that knowledge.


Sarah Ditum is a columnist, critic and feature writer.

sarahditum

Join the discussion


Join like minded readers that support our journalism by becoming a paid subscriber


To join the discussion in the comments, become a paid subscriber.

Join like minded readers that support our journalism, read unlimited articles and enjoy other subscriber-only benefits.

Subscribe
Subscribe
Notify of
guest

62 Comments
Most Voted
Newest Oldest
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
Mark HumanMode
Mark HumanMode
9 months ago

Thanks Sarah – this issue needs to be aired. Many men have peculiar sexual interests, and I think it’s better women don’t have to face it. It is the task of men to keep this stuff bottled up – for the sake of women, and of our relationships with them. Literature and popular culture allowed us some reprieve in recognising we are not alone in feelings we have, and repress. We consumed these isolated admissions in art quietly. The dirty book shared. Rampant internet self-expression, and growth in belief of superiority of self over others, has led to “dirty books” everywhere. People are misconstruing acknowledgement of our shared dirty secrets as permission. No, you are not permitted to indulge your weirdness with others who don’t share it. Get back to your partners, families and work, and if you want to carry out the perversions, close the doors.

John Galt Was Correct
John Galt Was Correct
9 months ago
Reply to  Mark HumanMode

You think women don’t have ‘peculiar sexual interests’?

John Riordan
John Riordan
9 months ago

A lot of them are more turned on by what’s in a man’s wallet as opposed to his underpants. Exceptionally weird and unsettling fetish, I’d say.

Jon Morrow
Jon Morrow
9 months ago

At least they’re not trying to ram it down our throat all the time.

Alan Osband
Alan Osband
9 months ago

Exactly all those best selling light S&M books like Shades of Grey or Nine and half Squeaks have an 80 per cent female readership .
When I was about 19 I found myself sharing with a ‘courtesan’ in New York our shared enthusiasm for L’Histoire d’O. Fun fun fun .

Mark HumanMode
Mark HumanMode
9 months ago

Of course. Everything thinkable by humans is possible. But, in the main no, and don’t mistake what women are willing to do for what they want to do. Married men get to find that out. 😉

Right-Wing Hippie
Right-Wing Hippie
9 months ago

I can’t remember who it was who said something along the lines of, “The entirety of human culture is the story of men trying to get with women.”
Gandhi, probably.

Jonathan Andrews
Jonathan Andrews
9 months ago

Someone also said that male sexuality was like being chained to a gorilla.
Fortunately/unfortunately my gorilla is getting older but I suspect that women do not quite understand how much men can be affected.
Is it me or are all heterosexual men rather envious of gay men and the comparative ease of getting sex?
Sarah seems to have made a thoughtful and compassionate attempt to understand this.

Jonathan Andrews
Jonathan Andrews
9 months ago

Another wise and perceptive thought strikes me while listening to a spy novel. The fact that overwhelmingly men fall for ‘honey traps’ perpetrated by women suggests that there is a dramatic difference between men’s desire for sex and women.
They idea that men can manipulate women through sex is absurd. Not so the other way around.

Adoptive Loiner
Adoptive Loiner
9 months ago

As a man, I for one don’t feel at all patronized or pidgeonholed by your sweeping generalisations about what you have decided is going on in all mens’ minds, based on a dirty book written by a man with breasts.

Because obviously a woman could never be sexist or cliched in her writing, unlike us perverts.

Paul T
Paul T
9 months ago

Thats good because she quite clearly refers to some men only. I read an article discussing the permissive confusion of paraphilia and identity; you read an article that called you a pervert. Interesting.

Paul T
Paul T
9 months ago
Reply to  Paul T

“permissive confusion” was meant to be “pervasive conflation”. I don’t know why I typed different words to those in my head.

Andrew D
Andrew D
9 months ago

Womansplaining?

George K
George K
9 months ago

We don’t just mount an engine when we want to get from one place to another. We have wheels, brakes, steering wheel etc. Same with the men’s sex drive.
There’s nothing to uncover here of any value. It’s all dirty cogs and screws that get meaning only as parts of the entire vehicle

Jules Anjim
Jules Anjim
9 months ago
Reply to  George K

A vehicle without that engine has no real purpose. Properly understood it’s a thing of beauty. The brakes are just social/cultural imperatives for self-regulation, pretty much everything else is cosmetic.

Jonathan Andrews
Jonathan Andrews
9 months ago
Reply to  Jules Anjim

I think I understand you; men are overwhelmingly interested in sex with women and constrain themselves and are constrained by society from allowing themselves to do dreadful things.

Forgive me I’ve misunderstood

Jon Morrow
Jon Morrow
9 months ago
Reply to  George K

So long as they remember to use the indicators.

Jules Anjim
Jules Anjim
9 months ago

Why on earth is the experience of an ageing tranny being mangled into a mealy mouthed tract on male sexuality?

William Shaw
William Shaw
9 months ago
Reply to  Jules Anjim

Any excuse for misandry.

Aphrodite Rises
Aphrodite Rises
9 months ago
Reply to  Jules Anjim

Because he’s a man I guess and I don’t think the equivalent delusion in women (believing they are men born in the wrong body) has a sexual basis; in fact it seems more to be a denial or avoidance of sexuality.

Bret Larson
Bret Larson
9 months ago
Reply to  Jules Anjim

It’s like doing your phd in the, I’m a lumberjack ditty. Funny enough I wouldn’t be surprised if somebody already did.

Julian Farrows
Julian Farrows
9 months ago

Transgenderism provides the perfect progressive cover under which men of a peculiar bent can flaunt their sexual fetishes in public and receive applause for it.

Andrew D
Andrew D
9 months ago
Reply to  Julian Farrows

Flaunt

James Anthony Seyforth
James Anthony Seyforth
9 months ago
Reply to  Andrew D

We all understood what was meant Andrew… Duh!

Andrew D
Andrew D
9 months ago

I know, I’m sorry, I can’t help it.

Julian Farrows
Julian Farrows
9 months ago
Reply to  Andrew D

Thanks

Mike Downing
Mike Downing
9 months ago

Surely, women or at least some women, are very good at entering into this world which appeals to both sexes.

After all, it turned out to be a woman who wrote ‘The story of O’ to entertain her partner of the time, and a woman who made herself a multimillionaire from the dreadful ’50 shades of grey’.

Some women dominatrixes are very adept at entering into men’s fantasies and getting pleasure and often money for themselves in the process.

In the past, women I know have told me about the most shocking fantasies they entertain but would never admit to these publicly due to women’s different perceived social roles and expectations (although this has changed more recently).

Matt M
Matt M
9 months ago

It isn’t that difficult: perverts should keep their perversions to themselves.
Whether they want to dress up in women’s clothes or drive nails through their private parts, they should do it in private. This is what clubs in Soho are for. What they shouldn’t do, should never do, is parade their perversions in public.
By all means, wear a suit and tie to the office as Dave and then put on your dangly earrings, your evening dress and call yourself Daphne when you get home.
The general public and children, in particular, should never have to confront these degenerate practises.
Live and let live and all that, but keep it to yourself please mate.

William Shaw
William Shaw
9 months ago
Reply to  Matt M

Ditum isn’t qualified to write about men or what men think.
She can do it, but take it with a grain of salt.
Everything she “knows” is based on questionable books produced by fetish obsessed writers, not your average human male.
She extrapolates from a small number of men to the entire male species.

Rasmus Fogh
Rasmus Fogh
9 months ago
Reply to  William Shaw

Mah. To me she seems both sensible and well-informed. I’d much prefer a woman who makes sense to a man who does not – much as I would prefer a good actor in blackface to a bad actor with naturally dark skin.

carl taylor
carl taylor
9 months ago
Reply to  William Shaw

I am, and she’s not wrong.

Bret Larson
Bret Larson
9 months ago
Reply to  William Shaw

Or perhaps herself as a man.

AC Harper
AC Harper
9 months ago

Male desire can be a forbidding subject for women…

But still women believe their insight is more relevant than a man’s. Maybe yes, maybe no. But possibly a sexual example of the Dunning-Kruger effect.

William Shaw
William Shaw
9 months ago
Reply to  AC Harper

Something that is very much on display in her writing.

Jeff Butcher
Jeff Butcher
9 months ago

When Ditum discusses Luc Sante in this article she undermines the point she is trying to make – most men are perverts but I’m pretty sure that while many of them fantasise about playing with a pair of tits most don’t fantasise about having a pair of their own.
That is a whole other kind of ‘male desire’ that doesn’t really align with what I think most men (or women for that matter) would think of when considering the issue.

carl taylor
carl taylor
9 months ago
Reply to  Jeff Butcher

I don’t understand your defensiveness. I didn’t assume she was talking about most men.

Jeff Butcher
Jeff Butcher
9 months ago
Reply to  carl taylor

Then why title the article ‘the messiness of male desire’ and use as your example a transsexual? It’s hardly representative is it? Besides what’s ‘defensive’ about my post? I think you may be projecting a bit there….

Dan Croitoru
Dan Croitoru
9 months ago

A tomboyish idealization of men’s “messy desires”. LOL. Most men have no proper fantasy apart from the pseudo fantasy of having sex with their mothers to be saved of the incertitude of having or not having the phallus. In Eyes Wide Shut Tom Cruise’s character cannot come up with a proper fantasy for his wife’s affair with the naval officer. His recurse to paranoid conspiracies and castrating display of performative sex is exactly what men do. They “save the world”. Not only his character cannot sexually perform but he cannot even imagine himself performing. His wife has no problem having the most fundamental proper fantasy “being raped by multiple men and enjoying it while feeling guilty”. She doesn’t try to save mankind …

Julian Farrows
Julian Farrows
9 months ago
Reply to  Dan Croitoru

Speak for yourself, Dan. I neither have nor ever have had a sexual fantasy involving my mother.

Dan Croitoru
Dan Croitoru
9 months ago
Reply to  Julian Farrows

Of course, that’s why we count on you to save the world !

J Dunne
J Dunne
9 months ago

There are few more crushing satires than the “men writing women” meme: “She breasted boobily to the stairs and titted downwards…”

Most of the authoritative insight that feminists provide us with when constantly writing about men is equally ludicrous.

Grahame Wells
Grahame Wells
9 months ago

Agree with final para, we’ve got to realise desire is fluid not fixed or ‘born that way’ because apart from in general (ie sexual desire exists – and is generally reproductive and thus heterosexual) desire type isn’t written in the genes. Are there deterministic biological drivers of a latex fetish wear kink for instance? Surely not. So perversion can be caught, developed and morphed. Sometimes into very dark places. A reason for some censorship of the Internet partic in the under 18s or over violence incl fetishes that lead to mutilation (incl transgenderism). People aren’t rational and reasonable but driven by wild, twisted libido often. Present company excepted of course!

Paul Thompson
Paul Thompson
9 months ago

I get very tired when I am told that I am not allowed to sneer at trannies. They are pathetic deluded perverts. Sneer I will. Self-delusion which involves self-mutilation as the endpoint is not a virtue.

Jake Raven
Jake Raven
9 months ago

I’m sceptical about the trans fad that’s in vogue at the moment. I suspect if there was more pushback to allowing these men to use womens’ spaces and competing in womens’ sports this thing would fade into the shadows where it belongs. Too much time and coverage is given to this minority issue.
DEI and organisations pandering to the wokeraty, has made this a lifestyle choice, I, for one, don’t buy it.

carl taylor
carl taylor
9 months ago
Reply to  Jake Raven

It’s nice that you don’t buy it. But are not concerned enough about it to join in the pushback. It is, after all, simply a ‘minority issue’, one that – apart from its detrimental impact on almost every institution, including the judiciary, the education system and the healthcare system; its threat to the safety and well-being of women and girls; its assault on the rights of same-sex attracted people; the medical harm it’s doing to vulnerable young people; and the chilling effect it’s having on the employment rights and freedom of speech of absolutely everybody who believes in biological reality – certainly receives ‘too much time and coverage’.

Martin Goodfellow
Martin Goodfellow
9 months ago

Perhaps the inventors of ‘The Pill’ got things wrong. If they had gone for reducing sexual pleasure for both sexes, rather than contraception, then sex could have been more rationally ordered. Reproductive choice could have been just that, but without the fun. Not everyone’s cup of tea, of course.

Lancashire Lad
Lancashire Lad
9 months ago

Certain cultures try to do exactly that – reduce sexual pleasure – via genital mutilation. Only applies to females, of course.

Jonathan Andrews
Jonathan Andrews
9 months ago

Oh no, it’s worth the cost

David Lewis
David Lewis
9 months ago

TESTOSTERONE! We need to understand, and make allowances for, testosterone. After all, society is increasingly being asked to make allowances for oestrogen (menstrual leave, maternity leave, menopause leave).

If some of the women out there want to know what testosterone FEELS like, simply Google ‘stag in rut’. Observe the poor, dribbling creature patrolling his harem. He daren’t stop to eat lest another boy interlopes, and he consequently loses half his body weight during the rut. He daren’t even enjoy coitus, when it happens, completing the process in seconds.

It’s a powerful hormone that most men just about keep under control with intellect/rationality, but some cannot. It might be that their bodies produce high levels, or their receptors are particularly sensitive.

Some men are driven to despicable acts by the testosterone, but lazily branding them all monsters and perverts, and punishing them with incarceration, doesn’t prevent the next one.

Jonathan Andrews
Jonathan Andrews
9 months ago
Reply to  David Lewis

A female colleague of mine, a biology teacher, speculated that perhaps courts should consider excessive levels of testosterone as mitigation for crimes.

I don’t agree but we do have a double standard

Steve Jolly
Steve Jolly
9 months ago

When considering male and female dynamics, I’m often struck by a feeling of hopelessness, like maybe this whole equality thing is just never gonna work. I sometimes wonder if we wouldn’t all be better off segregating men and women into entirely separate societies with minimal interaction, each subject to their own laws and government. They could have their most important law be never to interact with the opposite sex except in extreme need, and then make whatever rules and have whatever kind of societies they wanted for themselves. Like a kind of collective divorce, we could divide up all the assets as evenly as possible through negotiations, then go our separate ways. To produce children, we could have some annual mating ritual like many species of animal already do, or just science our way through it and mail gametes to some clinic that handles the entire process. The male children would be sent to the male and the females to the females, who would each have the collective responsibility of raising the children however they decided. I would imagine rape, domestic violence, and sexual harassment would dramatically decline. There would be no quibbling over child support. We’d never have to argue over raising the toilet seat or how full the trash can should be. Men could wear any colors together they wanted and women wouldn’t have to look at their bad sense of fashion or uncouth behavior. The frivolous waste of metals on jewelry might diminish and the diamond trade would collapse entirely. We could have AI generated porn that doesn’t use real people and so can’t be exploitative and no one would have any grounds to complain about the sexual predilections of the other side. No more MeToo movements or uncomfortable work relationships. The more I think about this, the more I like the concept. Would be hard at first but I think more peaceful and harmonious in the long term.

Julian Farrows
Julian Farrows
9 months ago
Reply to  Steve Jolly

Didn’t they try this on Survivor, with the women eventually having to move in with the men because they couldn’t get along long enough to build shelters?

Steve Jolly
Steve Jolly
9 months ago
Reply to  Julian Farrows

Can’t say I’ve ever watched that show or had any inclination to do so. I’ve always regarded reality TV as basically like regular TV with no writers and random people plucked off the street in place of the actors. It’s not real, and it’s not very good TV. That surprises me though. I thought women were supposed to have superior emotional intelligence and social skills in general.

carl taylor
carl taylor
9 months ago

Given the recent announcement that NHS England has ‘banned’ puberty blockers, it’s worth noting here that many trans-identifying male AGPs require the sacrifice of child body parts (‘gender affirming care’) as validation for the public expression of their own paraphilias.

Paul Thompson
Paul Thompson
9 months ago
Reply to  carl taylor

Absolutely. To validate their own perversion and delusion, others must be recruited.

UnHerd Reader
UnHerd Reader
9 months ago
Reply to  carl taylor

Without puberty blockers, they won’t have those 18-year-old men and women (legal)with the bodies of 11-year-olds to mess around with anymore. Freaks.

Daniel P
Daniel P
9 months ago

Yeah….I dunno about this.

At 57, and as a guy that has dated A LOT since he was 13, not sure that I buy this.

Sure, when we are in our teens and early 20’s, I will go along with guys having a stronger sex drive. In fact, I will admit that it borders on being a major distraction for young men.

BUT…I will tell you now, and granted this may just reflect my unique experience, by the time we hit 30, women’s sex drives far surpass our own. Maybe we are just tired or maybe we just get tired of trying, but most guys I know over 30 tend to have gotten a grip and it is the women that get a little aggressive and nuts about sex.

Now, as for the kink stuff, and again, maybe I am unique in my experience, but the fact is that most kinky things I have done were introduced to me by a woman. Now granted, I tend to like bold women with big personalities, and I was raised in a pretty protected bubble, so…maybe that is it. But every single kink that has EVER come up in a bedroom, from bondage to ropes to spanking, all of it was asked for or pushed by the woman I was with. Then, I look at things like 50 Shades of Grey, written by a woman for women, and I do not know a guy that read the book or saw the movie.

N T
N T
9 months ago
Reply to  Daniel P

funnily enough, i had exactly the same experience, but maybe for a different reason. we were trained about consent, and what women want, etc., etc., and very little besides. i had to learn that things i would not think of initiating were ok, and even hot/desired, including when i initiated them.
current cultural norms have put men in a bit of a box. if we do something the wrong way, or at the wrong time, it’s trouble. in fact, we have had a lot of sex scared out of us, because of all the bad that can come of it.

Bret Larson
Bret Larson
9 months ago
Reply to  N T

Sometimes being in a box is good. You can peek through the holes and make an ambush.

Bret Larson
Bret Larson
9 months ago

Does it really matter what you do at 66 for kicks?

Andrew Boughton
Andrew Boughton
9 months ago

Every radical political movement is a lightning rod for mad people.

richard jones
richard jones
9 months ago

Roth, Updike and Amis can’t be dismissed so airily; they are literary giants, even if some of their passages make women queasy.