'The verdicts against her are beginning to look distinctly unsafe.' Getty

Late on 17 February, a document briefly appeared on the website of Lady Justice Thirwall’s public inquiry into the Lucy Letby murders. By morning it had vanished.
UnHerd can now reveal that this was a statement to police by Dr Astha Soni, a paediatrician at the neonatal unit where Letby worked. And it raises serious doubts about the claims that Letby attempted to murder two babies by poisoning them with insulin. Yet the document was not disclosed to the defence before her first trial began, nor during her unsuccessful bid to appeal. Furthermore, we have discovered a second critical omission, involving the outbreak of a dangerous virus in Letby’s neo-natal ward.
As Thirlwall’s inquiry proceeds, troubling concerns over Letby’s seven convictions for murder and eight for attempted murder — she is now serving 15 whole life sentences — have only swelled. The UK-based consultant neonatologists Svilena Dimitrova and Neil Aiton have submitted detailed reports on three of the babies’ deaths that refute the evidence given at Letby’s trial, and a separate panel of international experts led by Canadian neonatologist Professor Shoo Lee concluded last month there was “no medical evidence to support malfeasance” in the deaths Letby was convicted of causing. Their assessment: the babies died from “either natural causes or bad medical care”. It all points to a troubling question: is Lucy Letby truly guilty beyond reasonable doubt?
Dr Soni’s secret, undisclosed police statement concerns “Baby Y” — born just after midnight on 2 November 2015, some months into the rise in neonatal mortality at the Chester unit that the police were investigating. Letby was never formally accused of trying to harm him, but the prosecution experts who gave evidence at her trial believed she poisoned him with insulin, just as she did Baby F and Baby L, whom she was convicted of trying to murder. Since Soni’s statement undermines that analysis, it raises worrying questions about the experts’ evidence in those other cases.
Baby Y was a big baby, born two weeks after his due date following a long and difficult labour. He was finally delivered by an emergency caesarean, and transferred to the hospital’s neonatal unit early on 3 November. This happened, Soni said in her statement, after the baby experienced “dusky episodes”, struggling to breathe and turning blue. In the second of these episodes, Soni told police, the baby was not only blue but unconscious, with “his eyes rolled up” and his torso “floppy”. Once on the unit, he was given oxygen, but “didn’t pick up straightaway”. Half an hour later, Baby Y suffered what Soni called a “seizure” — turning blue and making “no respiratory effort”.
When Dr Soni saw the baby again later that night, she said, he was hypoglycaemic. Despite increasing doses of dextrose, his blood sugar level remained stubbornly low. His diagnosis, Soni said, was “congenital hyperinsulinism” or CHI, a genetic condition in which babies produce excess insulin. This diagnosis was supported by endocrine experts at Alder Hey hospital in Liverpool whom the Chester doctors consulted, the statement went on. It is also possible, say neonatal experts who spoke to UnHerd, that he was suffering from “transient hyperinsulinism”, a non-genetic, common condition with natural causes whose symptoms would have been identical. After more seizures Baby Y was given several drugs and slowly improved, but outpatient treatment for “persistent hypoglycaemia associated with seizures” had to be continued for over seven months.
Medical experts for the Letby prosecution saw it differently. In a statement to police in 2021, seen by UnHerd, Professor Peter Hindmarsh of University College London, who was called as an expert witness by the prosecution over the cases of Baby F and Baby L, commented on a test on a blood sample taken from Baby Y on 3 November. It showed that while the boy’s insulin level was high, the concentration of C-peptide, a substance produced in tandem with insulin, in his blood was low. According to Hindmarsh, this meant Baby Y’s hypoglycaemia must have been caused by “exogenous” insulin administered by someone in the neonatal unit.
Other prosecution experts agreed. Dewi Evans, the retired paediatrician who had played a central role in the police inquiry and also gave evidence in respect of most of the babies Letby was convicted of harming, also reviewed Baby Y’s medical records. He told police in a statement that he thought his first three seizures had been caused not by CHI, but the “trauma” of his difficult birth, agreeing with Hindmarsh that he had later been given “insulin from an external source”. A third prosecution expert, Dr Sandie Bohin, backed this position too.
However, we spoke to two practising neonatal consultants who say all Baby Y’s “dusky episodes” and seizures could have been caused by naturally occurring hyperinsulinism, either transient or CHI — which, they say, is far more common than the prosecution experts appeared to believe. They say what matters most is that Baby Y had a confirmed diagnosis of CHI and still needed treatment long after leaving the Chester unit.
Shoo Lee’s expert panel has come to a similar conclusion. Its summary report, now being examined by the Criminal Cases Review Commission (CCRC), says naturally-occurring hypoglycaemia affects up to 40% of newborn babies, and that the relative levels of insulin and C-peptide seen in babies F, L and Y are also “not uncommon”. The timeline here is important too, because Baby Y’s first three seizures all took place before Letby ever encountered him.
If Soni’s statement had been given to Letby’s defence team, they might have called her as a witness — and explored why she thought Baby Y was suffering from CHI rather than a deliberate insulin overdose. That, in turn, might have enabled them to question the conclusions reached by the prosecution experts around babies F and L. In those cases, too, they claimed that the combination of high insulin and low C-peptide levels pointed to deliberate insulin poisoning.
We asked the Crown Prosecution Service why it failed to disclose Soni’s statement, but it refused to answer, stating only that Letby had been convicted and had lost her appeal. But its former chief, Lord Ken Macdonald KC, suggests the statement should likely have been shared. “The legal test is whether evidence is capable either of undermining the prosecution case or assisting the defence, and if it is, it should be disclosed before trial,” Macdonald says. “It sounds to me that the material you’ve found does meet that standard, and so should have been made available to Letby’s defence.”
Beyond the questions around Soni’s deleted statement, our investigation has uncovered a second key omission. Neither of the juries in Letby’s two trials was informed that a dangerous respiratory syncytial virus (RSV) outbreak was ravaging the neo-natal ward. This breakout was so severe that it forced the unit’s closure to new admissions — on 18 February 2016, the day after Baby K, one of the babies Letby was convicted of trying to murder, was moved from Chester to another hospital, where she later died.
This is despite the fact that staff at the hospital were clearly concerned about the outbreak. UnHerd has seen a police statement by Dr Bohin, dated 2021, which refers to a “management synopsis report” on the virus, a spreadsheet listing all the babies who contracted it, along with references to several similar documents about the outbreak.
Until the eve of her first trial, Letby was charged with both murdering and attempting to murder Baby K, but the prosecution asked the judge to remove the murder count from the indictment so that she was tried only for attempted murder. It was confident Letby had dislodged the child’s breathing tube — but, to quote the prosecution counsel, “we cannot and do not say” that what she did caused the girl’s death. He did not mention the virus sweeping through the neonatal unit when Baby K was born. For her part, Bohin made the dangers of RSV clear. “Its effects are usually mild, but in preterm infants RSV is responsible for significant mortality and morbidity,” she told police in a statement. “The virus is spread easily and can live for prolonged periods on hands and hard surfaces. There is no cure.” Baby K’s medical records do not say whether she was tested for RSV, but she had been in respiratory distress, and if she did contract the virus at Chester, it may have contributed to her death.
Meanwhile Shoo Lee’s expert panel is sceptical of the prosecution’s argument that Letby tried to kill Baby K by dislodging her breathing tube, suggesting instead that the hospital had used the wrong size tube, causing air to leak.
Beyond the medical questions here, these documents could have implications for Letby’s future. The CCRC and the Court of Appeal can consider fresh evidence that might, in theory, have been available at the time of a trial — if they are satisfied that to do so would be in the interests of justice. But they also have to consider whether there is a reasonable explanation why it was not used by the defence, and there is no stronger reason than a failure by the prosecution to disclose evidence to start with. This is ultimately why the cases of Baby Y and Baby K may yet be so significant.
Later this month, Lady Justice Thirwall will be asked by Mark McDonald, Lucy Letby’s lawyer, to put her inquiry on hold until the Criminal Cases Review Commission (CCRC) decides whether to order a new appeal. If it does, he will say, it would undermine the whole inquiry, which has been based from the outset on the presumption that Letby is guilty. In the face of the growing volume of fresh evidence, the verdicts against her are beginning to look distinctly unsafe.
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SubscribeA brilliant and extremely depressing analysis of the current state of affairs. We’re led by donkeys.
Author fails to appreciate how fragile Russian forces currently are. They can hardly service the tanks they’ve left. Their air-force is grounded. Their navy bottled up. Their troop morale shot and only deployed under fear of punishment.
The UK of course cannot send mass battalions. But it still has some crack regiments who’d be desperate to go. (Only those who’ve served and trained know that desire will be there. They’ve helped train Ukrainians and already have a strong bond). But combined with European partners sufficient significant deterrent force could be mobilised and one much better equipped.
And Author also misses a ‘vital’ – ‘morale is worth three to one’. the boost it would give Ukrainians unquestionable.
I’ve always had some doubts about the pro Putin brigade on Unherd. Watching carefully the Court case on the Reform Welsh leader who appears to have taken Russian bribes to post pro-Putin stuff.
A fine article and one of the very best contributions to this debate. Indeed, I think it is essential reading.
Mr Roussinos is apt to mention Suez and even the fall of France..
I can’t help but feel a great national humiliation is coming, to rank alongside Buckingham’s Cadiz expedition of 1625 or the burning of the fleet at Chatham by the Dutch. Perhaps even a Singapore.
Judge of the Nations, spare us yet…
A great article. I’l suggest that we take the search for ‘objective reality’ even deeper, and question more of our assumptions. Is Russia truly our enemy? Do wars now make any sense? Do we really need to spend so much on preparations for war?
Too sad, too true.
We’ve had 80 years of relative peace in Europe since WW2, and to say Europe is incapable of defending itself is absurd. Ukraine isn’t really Europe, and was part of the Soviet Union until 30 odd years ago. This war is not the ‘existential threat’ that advocates of increased arms spending like to pretend.
Describing (as Ukraine does) the mobilisation of middle age men in Ukraine as deliberate policy is part of the delusional and parallel world the Europeans and Ukrainians have been living in. The fact is that young males of military age in Ukraine won’t fight or have fled the country and are living at the expense of the EU. Pathetic.
A deeply felt ‘thank you’ for such a coherent statement. Also appreciation to many responding here with more informed coherence and cultural perception than I can summon. Yes, we do need to up our armaments and recruitment. The problem – the present cultural limpness of our woke-soaked education system. How is that answered?
A so-called Christian nation bemoans the happy fact that the younger generation, having lost its toxic masculinity, is also too smart to die for greedy banksters, armchair generals and degenerate politicians! ..whereas I say, hurray to all that!
Let’s instead dig a large pit, throw in all the aforementioned warmongers (from all nations) and see who crawls out alive, if any! ..and let young people live lives of international love, tolerance and harmony instead!
We, and Europe, are and have been for two decades ruled by incompetents. The chickens are now coming home to roost and all these fools can do is cluck!
..incompetents not from Europe either.. they’re just puppets.. American incompetents* have ruled Europe for decades, and they, in turn have been ruled by israeli incompetents*.
* not incompetent at all of course; in fact highly competent in serving their OWN agendas while sycophants in the EU have been hung put to dry! and GB has Israel dictats coming via the US and directly from Tel Aviv so is doubly screwed.. but, as Rubio reminded us, even more so from the 5th columnists at home – no, not the powerless immigrants, silly – from the armchair generals trying to keep the lost Empire going!
The 1st and 2nd world wars were engineered by a global elite who were engaged in transferring their (previously known as ‘British’) Empire to the US which they achieved fully by the late 40s/early 50s. Not every ‘politician’ was in on the act but Lloyd George and Churchill sure as f*** were. As is Starmer; as is/was Bliar! Now the 3rd WW is heating up past the ‘phoney war’ stage, it merely remains to be seen how exactly the global empire will be transferred into Chinese hands to be run for the same old global financial elite…
Superb well grounded article. This is why I subscribe to UnHerd.
“I will not cease from Mental Fight
Nor shall my Sword sleep in my hand
Till we have built Jerusalem
In Englands green and promised land”
Those were the days, those were the people.
It is well on its way to being achieved, although instead of Jerusalem we’re likely to end up being more like Gaza!
If you substitute one tiny word – instead of ‘in’ insert the word ‘from’ it works fine.. but maybe drop the word ‘promised’ as it’s a bit nuts in this secular age!
“This secular age” is the reason everything is swirling down the toilet.
This article was graet, but I think a few divisions into paragraphs would not be amiss.
Expand your attention span, Sam. You’re not a teenager any more.
The governments of the U K this century have lived on fantasy island.
This is a wizard piece by Aris Roussons.The man has been hotter than a pistol in his most recent work. The thought would make a stone laugh of Keir Starmer, the latest pygmy to occupy the office, flying off to straighten out Trump about things. The EU is going the way of the League of Nations and its successor talking shop the United Nations. Britain is finished as a world player; its inability to stop the small-boat invasion shows that, as does its growing Islamization and the suppression of free speech. Then there is the decay of its military. The days of a piper skirling as the regiment advances is but a romantic dream.
A: “British party politics has in recent decades become an exercise in evading reality, only dealing with the world — and our country’s material conditions — as our leaders would wish them to be.“
B: “If we were as close to war as Keir Starmer suggests, the Government would not be proceeding with the ruinous Chagos deal nor Net Zero”
If A is true, and the leader of the party with a majority in parliament is (therefore) to a large extent delusional, why does the author surmise that B would be a safe assumption to make? B seems to be entirely inconsistent with the content and tone of the rest of his excellent piece. Or have I missed something?
..you’ve missed something
Sic transit gloria mundi!
One quibble – Ukraine did not lose because the US abandoned it. Ukraine lost on the battlefield, fair and square (to the extent those terms apply in war). The US is abandoning Ukraine because Ukraine lost, not the other way around. There is nothing the US, NATO, the EU, or Europe could have done to stave off military defeat.
I only harp on this because there is a developing Dolchstoßlegende: The narrative deployed in Germany in the post-WW I time that Germany only lost because the army was stabbed in the back by feckless generals and politicians. If only they had held out, Germany would have won.
As the EU’s chief “diplomat”, Josep Borrel, said at the time: The decision will fall on the battlefield.
Indeed.
“ Europe’s leaders are Ceaușescus on the balcony, nervously waving at the crowd. “
This article should be mandatory reading for the entire UK population. The progressive west has lavishly funded NGO’s, universities and (it appears) the media with the purpose of denigrating and undermining our history, achievements, capitalist economic system, native population in general and men in particular. It is pure nihilism and the chickens are coming home to roost.
I could not come up better:
“It is our fate to be ruled by unserious people, and to suffer in consequence.”
..but you elect them silly!
Brilliant. The only slight disagreement I have is about the contention that the US is looking to Russia as a new attractive partner. I don’t think so, I think the new US administration has also given itself a hard dose of reality and understood its own, reduced position in the new world order. That means being able to deal with the other hegemons in a productive manner. It’s not about attraction, it’s about amicable coexistence.
Precisely. Trump speaking with Putin is as transactional as any other of his deals, both in business and in politics.
And yes, that’s a good thing; why wouldn’t it be?
..of course it is! ..and opposing it is idiotic under every imaginable heading!
The closed mindedness of “Open Society” zealots is a representation of their ideological fanaticism, not their hard reality pragmatism.
https://open.substack.com/pub/theupheaval/p/american-strong-gods?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android&r=al84p
Even now Starmer’s only grift is to use the prospect of a Conservative Peace as a vindication for a Liberal War in his attempts to rally the “Open Society” European troops behind him.
Except his troops are largely settled immigrants, criminals that have failed to be deported or have been released from prison early, anarchic knife gangs and of course let’s not forget SW1 and gold plated pension public sector officials.
Beyond that Starmer is simply deploying rhetoric to signal his devotion to the “Open Society” ideal even though war and the money pit it needs is what will bring the “Open Society” ideal down since its progressive realisation is dependent on adequate resource availability that can be routed towards economic growth and prosperity.
Starmer’s preference is war and wasting available resources leading to economic degrowth and impoverishment.
There is no progressive realisation of the “Open Society” without sustainable economic growth and prosperity.
Thank you for the sub stack ref., very good read.
An excellent article – full of truths. Well done Aris.
This is an excellent publication for a United States reader running from MSM coverage of international-Euro news. Any other suggestions you have along these lines?
In Light of all this, how’s all that net zero-obsessing, imported wood chip-burning, exported manufacturing capacity working out for you?
This is where bad faith gets you, supporting a corrupt country whom neither the EU nor NATO will accept as a member. There’s nothing noble about it; it’s just lying to your people and getting them suffer ill economic consequences. And I can’t stomach the UK narrative of blaming the rest of Europe for letting the US and Ukraine down. The US went with the proxy war when the opportunity presented itself. The UK just tallies along with the mythology of the Special Relationship- a circle of bad faith.
Agree from the U.S. We are all complicit and now we face the mess. Although, I think our corrupt, greedy, delusional, globalist leaders bear most of the blame. At least we are waking up to reality together.
Don’t always agree with Mr Roussinos but this essay hits a number of nails on their heads. We – and European leaders – need to accept reality and look to our own defence.
Defence? Surely you mean Attack? Nobody is threatening Blighty’s shores are they?
Hold the phone!
Before the rearmament and the re-industrialisation, the UK will have to provide trillions to the Commonwealth in compensation for transatlantic slavery.
If that’s the case, how many millions of trillions should the Ummah provide?
Well, that’s telling us: whether it will get through to Westminster is another matter. And we don’t even have Corporal Jones to tell us not to panic.
“If we were as close to war as Keir Starmer suggests, the Government would not be proceeding with the ruinous Chagos deal nor Net Zero:”
I’m not sure the likes of Stormer would abandon Net Zero under any circumstances, including being in a war rather than fantasizing about one.
Solar-powered tanks are just one innovation away, I’ll have you know
Aris is spot on. At last some people are beginning to get a grip on reality. It’s just unfortunate that the majority of our political class are still living in la-la land.
‘…..there is a lesson, if they are….’ If they are what? Don’t make laugh, these idiot 19thC elite to££ers are beyond learning anything. While England burns (and I don’t mean coal) they’re playing luckspittle, with all the competence of shelf stackers hastily rearranging their same burnt out dreams….Sir DEI-ago, spineless, fatuous, manager of clowns.
Before their invasion, the Kremlin was convinced that the Ukrainians would not fight. Now there are worries that the younger generations in the UK wouldn’t either. But this time with sound reasons.
On the BBC’s Newsnight, the much respected Lord Sumption expressed his certainty that the famous Oxford debate of 1933 is a sure indication that the younger generations of today would fight if called upon.
Except that the Britain of 1939 wasn’t a Blairite creation of a community of communities where the agitated on the streets have to be soothed into tranquillity by such as the good ladies of the Southport Wellbeing Choir singing anaesthetic to the communities.
That someone of Lord Sumption’s stature and erudition should have this view, rather than the empty vessels of Labour and LibDem MPs, is a cast-iron proof of the inability of Britain’s rulers to read the graffiti on the wall that Gen Z, never mind the Alphas and Betas, have written.
The American Inspector General of Afghan Reconstruction noted in his last report that the widespread illiteracy among Afghan trainees for the Afghan National Army meant that, not having developed a long attention span which is a product of learning to read, these men and women could not apply themselves to any task for long, leaving it to their instructors to finish.
Any attempt to rearm has a foundation of sand without, not only a willingness to fight on the part of the younger generations, but without them having the thorough education of yesteryear. Conscription, so 1916.
In all this wittering about re-armament, no one has mentioned the whale in the room. Trident. Another part of the jigsaw of dependency. Must there be an Anglo-French nuclear umbrella over Europe? That’s stepping up to the plate. Does Ms Hamilton, MP, have a view? Should Starmer get the boffins to put Blue Streak back on the drawing board?
Outstanding article. I’ve been very critical of this author in the past, but I can’t fault this.
Whatever one believed about the Russia-Ukraine conflict, there’s no disputing the lack of a viable and consistent Western strategy. Nor the detachment from reality of most European and UK leaders (which even now shows no signs of changing). It’s all just performative gesture politics for them.
Oh for a few more like this chap (UnHerd doesn’t like links, so look up Henry V (1/3) Duke Thomas Beaufort’s Message (1989) on YouTube).
i
Imagine if Keir Starmer asked the demographic who would be likely to volunteer to sign up please, and Tommy Robinson advised those people not to join.
Who would they listen to?
Murderci Ben Robinstein I presume?
I hope you are right. In long over-the-road travels I often listen to audio books by war-historian Victor Davis Hanson. His command of detail leaves my head spinning, but I always take away the same lesson: humans are so very good and so unrelenting in killing each other, and always have been.
Elon Musk et al are exposing the grift that is America’s warmonger. I had no idea there was so much money to be made by killing; hopefully we can throttle it back a little in the decades to come.
Conscription? British youth would be abruptly confronted with the true meaning of trigger warnings and not feeling safe.
Smart kids.. not like those eejits of old who worn the nice uniforms to impress the girls are Northern asses handed to them as your Lords and Masters in the IS would say..
The writer asks
In One Hundred years ,will the United Kingdom still exist ?
100% absolutely Not
Why simple Arithmetic
Of Those Scots who want Independence consistently In the last year the average polling shows a increase of 45% to 51 % in favour
But more importantly
In the cohort of 16 to 32 yrs old
67 % want Independence
But terrifying for the Union is that
92 % of that group do not consider
Themselves as British
And to add to the misery 97 % of them DO NOT trust the UK state propaganda BBC and no longer partake of It’s News services
Do the maths
Then tell me just how the Hell Westminster can govern Scotland
Without the consent of it’s People’s
To date 67 Nations withdrew their consent to Westminster governance and are now Independent
Those who argue against such
I have application forms to apply for Membership of The Flat Earth
Society
Where no doubt they will be giving
A enthusiastic welcome
Scotland has given its consent to be a part of the UK, of that their is no dispute.
The SNP number of MP’s were greatly reduced in Westminster in ge2024.
Expect an even greater reduction at the next ge202?
The only part of the UK that may choose to leave would be N.Ireland, but I suspect the Republic does not have the stomach for this.
You singularly missing the point
That consent is now irreversibly
And permanently withdrawn
With only one possible solution
Westminster all too well knows the game is up and now deliberately impoverishing Scotland
And as always in doing so they
In desperation make a fatal error that places the straw upon the back that breaks the Union
With uncontrollable velocity
Study the History of fall of Empire
Losing all those SNP MP’s in Westminster last year doesn’t back up your claims.
It’s all over for the SNP particularly when Murrel ends up in jail, and Nicola ??
You stupid village idiot and a Collie
Do you want a application to join the Flat Earth Society
Membership comes with a warning though
Be careful as you travel because you may fall from the edge
God’s teeth Brian!
Have you been drinking again?
Bad luck about the Calcutta Cup.
Couldn’t give a dam upon the Calcutta cup
Tis independence that shall be won and forever
Ain’t gonna that back to none EVER
As chance would have I partook of a wee dram of a pre mothballing of a 25 yr old Springbank which I purchased for £ 42 each for 12 bottles
43 yes ago , drunk one bottle and shared with very special guests at a Dinner party
Opened a 2nd one 12 yrs ago
Sold six 4 yrs ago
So now only six left But not for opening
However should you wish to partake of a Dram to my best Knowledge you can have a dram at only 2 hostelerier s
In Scotland
The cheapest of those 2 is per 25 ml £ 214
The cheapest you’ll find gloaby
For a 70 cl bottle is £ 5200 today
But I just wee stupid , poor I’ll educated working class son of a Irish immigrant who was a Shale and then a coal miner
Who has garnered into my collection many a fine and exceptional malt collection
Having sold on only 14 bottles from my collection
And just for you here’s are a few
Examples held today and purchased between 12 to 40 yrs ago
All these left in trust to my children
The price allocated against them over 3 yrs ago
And here’s a few for which I parted with monies considerably less than today’s market price
The examples I now give are all from closed distilleries and no more shall ever be produced
Ladyburn 50 yrs Old £ 22, 000
Glenury Royal 5O yrs old £ 18, 000
Brora 22 yrs old £ 6,800
That’s enough
Go find yourself a English financial advisor and consultant to advice you upon investments
Charging £ hundreds/ hour for his advice that can match the yields I have achieved
Big clue the 3 Bottles listed above I obtained for the princely sum of £ 6520 ( now £ 46, 800 )
Not bad for a Chat Bot and or a idiot of a Scotsman
And the problem the Coolies in 11 Downing Street have is never ever shall they possibly find what the Capitol gains made when I depart this life
And 218 bottles in my collection go to Auction should my Children decide to sell or retain as a sound investment ( Tax Free )
It’s a walk in the Park outsmarting you lot
I need not engage hideously expensive consultants nor a command of that Weasel English Language to
Body swerve you lot and make my own way to my rules and not play your games all of which are rigged for the benefits of the elite and rich
And that’s one of the main reasons economic fortunes and all that flows from such shall
Confirm England are now well truly Coolies completely unable
To pay or make their way in the world
Oh the Green and pleasant lands that are covered in Raw sewage , used condoms, sanitary pads and tampons
That didn’t quite make into your
Waterways or Seas and beaches
And many of The Coolies ruling
Masters have made a fortune
In turning you Land of Hope and glory into one of despair and shit
Now tell me who the fool is here
Me or the English Coolies
Upon this forum . I shall not hold back my punches any more
I present with all with facts and you offer in return I’ll thought out abusive and ridiculous replies
Yer right there lad! You broke ’em, so you own ’em! We’re not at all keen on hatred in the ol’ Republic don’t y’know!
That’s news, seems to me the hatred is huge in the republic
You are very badly misinformed! You tune in to the loudmouth 1% of our population.. if you do that in any country you get the nutjob, diehards and every other class of eejit as well! When your late queen RIP, came to my home town Cork (the Rebel county!) she walked, unprotected, among the large, very enthusiastic crowd.. that is the 90% majority. Forgive and forget, live and let live.. assuming the motivation is peaceful ..if it’s not, sure, that’s a different matter.. but so it is everywhere..
Not British for sure, but English right.. if only for the football hooliganism, right?
Poor response!
So, let’s have a list of the other cultural traits – the ones that have survived, I mean! Fair play? Free speech? Right to protest? Honour (as opposed to itsstance on Gaza)? Justice? Decency (welcome to newcomers)? .. I’m stretching credility at this point..
It was. And assuming his ‘Republic’ is Ireland, he skips over the hatred the Irish seem to nurture for each other….
The UK has only one credible option, re-arm and big, ally with the US rather than the EU and meanwhile …
Ukraine is in line for EU membership, Germany will re-new its close ties with Russia.
Ukraine will be ordered to cede the Donbas & Crimea as the price of EU membership.
Germany, France et al will leave NATO & an EU Army will emerge under German control.
Russia & Germany ( EU) will resume diplomatic & trading relations.
Excoriating. Reality.
Not totally wrong.. Yeah, to increase the rate of UK’s decline, yes, it will, idiotically, realign with the US Empire in rap8d decline itself (ref. Dr Richard Wolff).. But you’ll have to breakout the monopoly money to rearm, won’t you?
Ukraine fails the entry test to the EU under several million headings so forget that..
Yes, a AfD led German govt. will, intelligently, cosy up to its best trading partner the Russian Federation and the rest of BRICS+ like any, half Intelligent country would do.. Jump on the winners’ bandwagon, not the one with the wheels falling off, driven by a crazed, criminal, genocidal, orange lunatic!
We know how you Irish behave, you have history on Gaza, Germany et al.
Deal with the issues.. whataboutery is for ditzy girls!
The EU leadership are always happy to bend their own rules when it suits their personal interests, so qhen the dust has settled, I expect them to admit (what’s left of) Ukraine. After all: they’ve suffered so much!
(And it makes an excellent money laundromat)
You may be right? ..they’ll probably have to ask Ireland to agree more than once though.. It’s time we Irish exited the EU and joined BRICS+ ..that’s where the smart money is going! Our strategic location and brilliant peacekeeping will be our trump card (pun intended)..
The crisis has enabled Starmer to wear battle dress, posing carefully with a resolute, military expression on his face.
And that’s all that matters really !
Comic opera politics for a comic opera country.
A more worthless “waste of rations” would be hard to imagine.
Have you noticed Starmer’s big strangler’s hands though? I reckon that with a bit of practice he’d be a whizz at spud peeling.
I think this is a good article that raises some excellent points and nails it in many areas. The tectonic plates have been under strain for a while, they’ve just moved and we’re in the middle of the earthquake. It’s a time that calls for statesmen while we’re unfortunate to be led by public sector managers and overgrown student activists. And the author definitely has Ed Davey’s card marked.
But I think the tone of catastrophism is overdone, and perhaps a bit of perspective is called for. When I was younger, at the height of the Cold War, the Russian threat was ideological as well as military. Then, it was built on the combined populations and powers of the Soviet Union and Warsaw Pact countries. Russia today is perhaps a third of that size and the other two thirds are (more or less) in the western camp. Then, Soviet tanks and missiles were a couple of hours from Hamburg. Today they are bogged down in WW1-type trenches thousands of miles away. Morally, the cosying up to Putin and insulting of Zelensky is repugnant, of course. But Britain is not going to launch Armegeddon for Ukraine, and, Nato or no Nato, I seriously doubt it would be launched for Estonia or Lithuania either. My guess would be that the tripwire point is somewhere around the German border, where it was in 1988.
There was a peace dividend at the end of the Cold War and we were all glad to take it. Times are a-changing now and the USA is resetting and calling out Europe’s shortcomings in defence. It’s not so much a wake-up call as being dumped out of bed into a bath of freezing water. But are we in an existential crisis? My view is not.
Ah but with regards the peace dividend that as you would define as a fool
Putin has completely outsmarted you
How Russia has now successfully
Thourghly modernised its nuclear weapons , but also the delivery systems
A few examples all it’s ICBM, S tested at launch and maximum ranges possible with accuracy
Some of these Hypersonic can bob and weave as they proceed to target
Making interception impossible
It’s nuclear submarine fleet now has 3 modern subs commissioned and well on target for 10 more by 2030
Go look at US class Virginia getting on and UK replacement for Trident
Which fail to launch anyway
The USA minuteman ICBM is way past sell by date and has never been successfully tested beyond 3200 Km
Not to mention China who have a cast iron friendship with Russia
And Thousands of Hypersonic missiles, one of which test launch
Recently and accurate after flown for 13200 Km
Why do you think Trump openly stating that talks be opened upon
Ridding ourselves of Nuclear Weapons
Ah, that hit the spot! Fantastic article. One niggle, it is time to stop talking about Europe as if it was a single country – “Europe must do this, do that”. There is no such thing. We don’t say Asia must do this meaning Japan and China.
The UK has only one credible option, re-arm and big, ally with the US rather than the EU and meanwhile …
Ukraine is in line for EU membership, Germany will re-new its close ties with Russia.
Ukraine will be ordered to cede the Donbas & Crimea as the price of EU membership.
Germany, France et al will leave NATO & an EU Army will emerge under German control.
Russia & Germany ( EU) will resume diplomatic & trading relations.
I think your predictions will be proven fairly accurate.
Finally, a geography student enlightens the mob!
Sometimes people need to be reminded Liam. I’m happy for people to treat the British Isles as one entity (being as it is defended entirely by the RAF and Royal Navy) but Europe? I don’t think so.
In 75 years I’ve never spotted any incoming enemy aircraft or warships! Not even a few paratroopers.. have I missed something? I do remember one of our passenger planes bring shot down but that was by the RAF..
The only threat I see (apart from the old invader) is the USA, but happily we are white, Christian and we gave our oil to BP so I think even there were probably okay? ..and c.20% of the USA is ‘Irish’ so they’ll not allow it..
You are of course right, but Ms. v d Leyen and her minions believe otherwise.
Excellent article. Harsh but (regrettably) very realistic and convincing. And blessedly free of the cringing subservience, bully-boy glee in destruction, and adoring worship of the strongman that was always the hallmark of weak fascists.
Just one aspect he (quite legitimately) skips over: A deal that gave Russia some territory and left Ukraine safely independent would have been a great achievement – but that was never on offer. The best that Putin ever was willing to concede was the equivalent of Minsk 3 – an armistice while Russia rearmed, prepared, and restarted fighting until Ukraine submitted and installed a pro-Russian puppet government. If the alternative is complete surrender, even a risky war can look like a better bet.
The sympathies of the bien pensant were exposed starkly during the trial of human rights lawyer Phil Shiner.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phil_Shiner
The two year suspended sentence may appear to some, to be more of an absolution than a prosecution.
Correct, he “should have hanged” as we used to say.
The late Sir John Simons KC would have described him as “a piece of human refuse”.
We are told that two tier justice is merely a far right meme requiring investigation by Prevent, so two years suspended for debauching justice and effectively wasting millions of public money against imprisonment for stupid tweets or shouting at a place dog can’t actually be true can it?
We’ve spent so much time feminising our society and attempting to removing all traces of ‘toxic masculinity’ that the idea of gearing up for conflict is darkly funny.
We could send our most vocal ‘rights’ campaigners to the front I suppose. We could Google translate via megaphones their thoughts onto the Russian soldiers. Now that’s a deterrent 21st century style. No need for drones, tanks, hypersonic missiles etc.
Weirdly. I hear people around me claiming we must “fight for the sovereignty of Ukraine”. These are also the very same people who see no problem with illegal migration into here and the USA. Other peoples nationhood is important. Ours. Not so much.
This is just another war we had no realistic plan for how to end it. And now we’re here. Looking stupid. Again.
The MIC have made put like bandits. So it wasn’t all for nothing.
Nail, right on the head, hit!
Whereas in Zelensky Ukraine has a Churchill, in Starmer and others the UK has Lord Halifaxes.
If the UK’s politicians were to make an honest appraisal of the situation they would approach having a Churchill moment if they promised Ukraine nothing but blood, toil, tears and sweat.
Escalation of defence.
It was escalation of defence that eventually resulted in the war of 1914. The same was involved at least in part in the current war, in the same region of Europe where the crisis began in 1914, and where it could have been confined. It’s 1914, not 1940.
The war in Ukraine is one of industrial capacity and manpower, the sort of war that what has become the EU was designed to prevent. The member states having been successful in that endeavour between themselves, now find that they do not possess the ability to wage such a war, even a defensive one, outside the EU either.
There are enormous prayers that heaven in anger grants. Given the UK’s internal condition, escalation of defence even in the simple form of conscription could become a danger to the civil peace of the UK itself.
If the motheaten garment of conscription is to be brought out of the cupboard of the yesterdays, perhaps Vera Lynn needs to be updated as garage, bhangra, or rap.
A helpful essay if you’re into things like reality. Very red pill… I like the use of the word “maximalist” close to the end. That really captures the spirit of Europe, and of Ukraine is a sort of maximalist position that Ukraine was going to win, and Russia would fall.
Now, it’s hopeless, fantasy land, and what team Starmer seemed to think they could do is bully team Trump through partnership with Zelensky and UK initiated media narratives harkening back to the old debunked Russiagate stories, and all it did was piss all of team Trump off, and accelerate the US walking away and wishing all of the European warmongers luck with their war, and so it is.
Stepping up to own the lost cause Ukraine war and all its shame and defeat is Ken Starmer along with other EU war maximalists who as Aris points out have no militaries of any size or readiness for a sustained slow grind attrition ground war like Ukraine is.
Now why would he and they do that? Why would they have such a one track mind incapable of change? We can blame Ursula and the EU, but really I think the answer is that there really is a deep state, behind the curtain. There are blob powers in Europe. Big money, old money, and new money, and the governments and institutions that we see and talk about are in some ways just the facade of the deeper reality behind the scenes. Western oligarchs that these figureheads answer to, cling to power to represent instead of the will of the people in their nations explains why leaders double down, and triple down on really bad and really destructive policies and positions that simply make no sense. They look like amateurs, because they are figure heads, representatives of wills beyond their own.
Puppets if you will, just like Zelensky is. He’s a product, a thing they put out there, and there are the narratives and things choreographed and timed, stories written, pressure applied. This is the old US AID, NGO model that’s going away, or under new management. The US is walking away, and the Western EU nations are willing to do just about anything to keep the US in Europe, but its too late. It’s to expensive, and European nations in Trump’s eyes are more of a drain than a benefit at this point.
Britain should give up on the idea of far-flung deployments, and instead focus on defence of British territory.
We need a nuclear deterrent and air defence capabilities that are completely independent. We built jets and rockets once, and we can do it again.
We also need to sort out our food & energy security, and eliminate the threat posed by those within our borders who hate Britain.
The great obstacle to a secure, independent Britain is our ruling class, who rival the Islamists in their contempt for the British people.
The first step is for voters to wake up to the reality of our current situation, and the extent to which we’ve been betrayed by Labour and Conservatives alike.
Aris deserves much credit for shifting opinion.
The best and most realistic comment in this thread – including food and energy security, which to me is existential.
Brilliant article setting out the truth.
Every British, and European, politician should be sent a copy and forced to read it.
And subjected to at least ten minutes of ‘waterboarding’ for good measure.*
*After all its not actually torture.
My preference is, all put in stocks for a day, with the public allowed to throw soft fruit and rotten eggs. But, taking my cue from Trump pre election, only for one day. We are not barbarians, after all.
Who can afford to waste fruit and eggs these days?
Especially EGGS!
Excellent essay. Excellent commentary from what seems very nice people. American Newby again.
Say…to your point and JD Vance’s point as well…do you folks really think Russia is as much of a threat to you…as what this woke, leftist, globalist cancer has done to our culture, hearts, souls and minds…and the younger generation especially?
I understand we don’t have a war on our doorstep, don’t mean to minimize your fears and threats….but woke and these unserious, yet corrupt deranged leaders have done so much damage to everything, just everything in the last four years (and gradually since Clinton at least). Not to mention so many lives lost in the war. A whole generation of men for both countries.
Even with Trump beating back baddies every day, trying to kneecap the leftist infiltration…..it’s just so infected everything. With all the corruption, deliberate deception, propaganda and brainwashing DOGE is uncovering from our own CIA.
I think of that quote, War of 1812, United States Navy defeats the British Navy in Battle of Lake Erie. Master Commandant Oliver Perry writes to Major General William Henry Harrison, “We have met the enemy and he is us.”
The United States and its citizens unfortunately. We are the world’s common enemy and our own biggest enemy too. I don’t see any nation as culpable as the US for the current global sh**show and all the conflicts. Whether we citizens knew it or not. Because our deep state orchestrated and taxpayers paid for all of it. Not Russia, not Europe, not Ukraine. Man. No wonder everyone hates us.
Despite the running down of the UK’s armed forces for years, no military threat has been made against the UK.
Perhaps the ‘Red Wall’ are about to rebel? Would the British Army do a “Bloody Sunday” or just stand aside?
I think the quote is, “… he is ours.” The quote, “he is us” is an intentional perversion of the original and comes from Pogo, an old Walt Kelly cartoon.
Thank you.
Thanks for the fact checking prowess. I admittedly knew that, but chose the perversion instead.
And this “crisis” in Europe and abroad as well as within the US, sending the dependent and political classes scurrying, clutching their pearls and bemoaning the tidal change from their pedestals, is the healthiest thing that can happen at this point. All of the problems the fBritish populace faces, from tone deaf leaders who despise them from their utopian delusions to obscene levels of illegal immigration, energy costs and inflation, and even housing, food, employment and resource insecurity, are happening here in the US as well, with ever-increasing levels of taxation, regulation, and infringement of our liberties. Yet the elites expect us, the US taxpayers, to continue funding their destructive political decadence across the world, continue funding and fomenting wars in far flung corners, and defending those who could and used to defend themselves, but choose not to, milking the American taxpayer so that they can use their own country’s funds to purchase votes and fund their own political ambitions. We’re sick of it. We’re sick of the corruption in our own government, and sick of the money we work hard for being confiscated to fund this destructive globalist garbage. The American people are the most generous in the world, but the extravagances of the global elite aren’t charity, as this article and most of the comments observe, they’re political largess and gamesmanship, and we’re pulling as much of the funding from it as we can.
You are spot on ..in everything you say. And yes, Russia is no threat to Europe whatsoever! The sooner we start trading again the better for them and us Europeans..
If we really wish to be a ‘power to be reckoned with’ we must immediately start mining coal! And on a simply massive scale.
The whole island is made of the stuff, and most of the floor of the North Sea.*
We don’t need stroppy miners this time, AI robots will do.
*And don’t give 56% of it to Norway as we did with the oil.
Couldn’t agree more Charles. Mine baby mine! Frack baby frack! and drill baby drill!
King Coal and its cousin diamonds are the greatest natural resources this little planet of ours has to offer.
It is sheer lunacy to reject them.
Charles, coal I can accept (for the sake of arguement) but why do you think diamonds are so valuable?
You’d best ask that question in Antwerp or even Hatton Garden.
..but NIMBY of course, ‘goes without saying!
Don’t the old pit villages want the seams re-opened?
Eh, no.. the original inhabitants are all dead: miner’s lung or buried alive.. snd the villages were bought up by hippies for peanuts..
900 years worth according to the Coal Board’s ex chairman (and sometime philosopher) Dr. E.F. Schumacher ..no, not the racing driver! But that was 70 years ago, so now only 825 years worth left!
“Come home to a REAL fire, buy a cottage in England!*
*But not near Stow-on-the-Wold if you can help it.
Who can afford Stow’ ..certainly not me.. I’m currently in Portugal (I come for 6 months to enjoy an Irish summer during Portugal’s winter).. and I’m thinking I’ll move here permanently, for the wine as well as the weather.. The only thing stopping me is Portugal is in NATO and I’m afraid of my life the Russians will invade any minute. lol!
Yeah, but then temperatures might rise another few hundredths of a degree over the next couple of decades.
The horror!
We might even get our pathetic global emissions up from a paltry 0.87% to a simply staggering 0.89%!
I think don’t the question is whether Britain alone can deal with Russia. Rather it is whether Europe as a whole can deal with Russia. It must be obvious by now that Russia will forever be “the enemy”, and can never be trusted with anything (and certainly can never be a “trading partner”). Europe should prepare for conflict as rapidly as it can. If it takes some years, so be it. Some European nations are already doing that. Poland (which knows better than most exactly what Russia is like) already has a large military. Europe also needs more nukes, so it can be at parity with Russia.
The dreadnought race was an escalation of defence. Both Imperial Germany and Great Britain had trade routes and colonial interests to defend.
Imperial Russia was modernising her army in 1914 as a defensive measure. Imperial Germany realised that she could not match it, and having been outmatched in the dreadnought race, chose war to decide the matter.
Do not put your trust in chariots.
Russian rearmament was being financed by French Banks, and if it was a “defensive measure” why did they attempt to come to the rescue of deplorable Serbia, which could only be construed as an act of blatant aggression?
Russia ..forever the enemy? Obviously nobody told you about WW2 when Russia was your best friend! Tje Bear is no threat to anyone except those idiots who poke it!
That would be Russia that was busy carving up Eastern Europe alongside Germany at the beginning of the war?
Hardly best friend! Churchill said if Hitler invaded Hell he would at least make a favourable reference to the Devil in the House of Commons.
Both he and Roosevelt despised Bolshevism.
Russia was only an ally because it was (reluctantly) at war with Germany. That ‘alliance’ lasted as long as WWII. No more.
Don’t they teach Irish kids history?
Honestly, this is a brilliant acerbic article full of hard truths we need to discuss. This is why i subscribe to unherd.
A country where the natives have been taught to hate their own country and heritage and each other…
A populace where 1/4 were born abroad, many of whom do not share the values…
A political class that hates its own citizens and thinks fossil fuel is an existential threat…
An economy that has been brought to its knees by bureaucracy and taxation…
A manufacturing sector that has been brought to its knees by high energy costs associated with ruinous net zero policies…
An ever shrinking armed forces that have been decimated by budget cuts, diversity drives, and mismanagement…
I’d be surprised if the UK could hold off an invasion of angry vikings at this point.
It cannot seem to stop the invaders coming across the Channel in rubber dinghies
The modern equivalent of the viking longship. Nice analogy!
Only the Viking were not parasites did not come for the benefits and ultimately contributed to the country
Hmm. What do you call invaders who rape women, enslave children, murder civilians and carry off booty? Apart from Russians, that is? That’s what the Vikings contributed to the British Isles between 780 and 850 AD.
They then occupied a large portion of the north from the Humber to the Liffey, running protection rackets against their neighbours (aka the Danegeld) and continuing with rapine from time to time.
It may be safe to say that assimilation and conversion to Christianity turned them from being a net negative to at least neutral. But I’m not sure that they have made a significant positive contribution, unless you count Yorkshire’s medal haul at the London Olympics.
BTW, I live in Yorkshire and I like living in Yorkshire.
Ah, but which Yorkshire?
See my comment – cogent points . . . Thank you.
What was described in this article and which you outlined so effectively in your response is precisely what is occurring in Canada. Same feckless government, too busy virtue signalling our “post-national” status, to do the one job every government is supposed to do — defend our borders.
If attacked, the best Canada could do right now is send out its navy in canoes and hope to startle the “enemy.”
They are all completely useless and delusional. There is no prospect of UK finding the resource or will to properly rearm or build an effective army.
First, the cost of rearming would be so large that we would have to slash welfare and the civil service and abandon the benefits economy (which we have only been able to enjoy in large part because the US has carried the cost of defence). We would also have to cancel overseas aid (borrowing even more money to gift to underserving foreigners for no possible gain when the interest on the national debt already exceeds the Defence budget had to be the work of geniuses).This is a price that the Labour party cannot countenance and, with the exception of cancelling overseas aid, the electorate is not prepared to pay.
Second, we are not going to be able to recruit men in the numbers need. Our ruling class deliberately set out to destroy nationalism and the nation state, so what are we supposed to fight for, the rainbow flag, “British values”, a multicultural, multi-ethnic society?
Third, our ruling class have engaged in warfare against the white population, and particularly white males, so why should they enlist, and can anyone see our new Britons flocking to the flag to defend King and country? Conscription will not work either. Those men that can do so will flee to their country of origin ( a Brucie bonus). A very large percentage of those that can’t will just refuse and, in what I think you call a delicious irony, there will be plenty of scope to take advantage of the Human Rights Act. At least 2 Tier’s mates will earn a decent wedge out of out of it which is the main thing. Of course the Courts could turn round and decide that conscription trumps human rights but that might be the last nail in the coffin of a discredited legal system and a corrupt judiciary.
Fourth, the industrial output required would mean consigning the green agenda to the dustbin of country. That I would enjoy.
Fifth, why should young men British men join up to fight when so many Ukrainian men of fighting age have fled the country in order to avoid military service.
Sixth, Russia clearly has neither the capacity or the inclination to invade the rest of Europe so where is the threat to us. Our elite have to keep attempting to breath new life into this old canard because they have no other cards to play.
Of course, if I am wrong on this last point we would get to enjoy the spectacle of 2Tier, Rachel from accounts, Angela “mine’s a council house” Rayner, David “DEI hire” Lammy, Diane “love whitey” Abbott, TonyB Liar, Ed “Cain” Miliband, Teresa “corn field” May, David “hug a hoodie” Cameron and Boris “honest” Johnson el al languishing in camps, a spectacle I would pay to see. That is unless true to form they take advantage of their privilege and friends with money to flee the country, leaving the rest of us to carry the can.
Quite correct!
We might just be able to reconquer Wales or even the Isle of Wight but not much more.
Frankly all this faux jingoism by Stermer and Co is just embarrassing.
When England subdued Wales, all those years ago, it wasn’t because they were better soldiers, it was because they had more blacksmiths making swords.
And Master St George building all those magnificent castles that still dominate the landscape today.
How do you propose to defeat the 3-legged Manx? They’ll run rings around your lads!
It might help if their cats had any tails.
One could have made similar points in the 1930s and various other points yet in each instance Britain was able to mobilise and field large forces – a few years later than desirable but still with effect.
1/ Individuals do not join armies on the same logic as they vote. Frequently, the British Army has recruited from alienated communities – the Irish and Scottish Highlanders in the nineteenth century. – then used the regimental system to produce motivated soldiers.
2/ It is not a straightforward choice between defence and welfare. Taxes will have to go up, In the 1930s Defence spending rose from 2.5% to 9% of GDP before war became inevitable in 1939.
I applaud the critique of the unreality of much recent defence rhetoric but it is equally foolish to wallow in inactivity rooted in fatalistic despair.
In 1930s Britain had an empire, was still one of the most heavily industrialised states, had significantly more energy resources, and had a much more homogenous society and patriotic elite. None of that exists today.
By 1930 that Empire was an expensive ‘basket case’, and in 1934 we actually DEFAULTED on our debt repayments to the US*.
But for the vanity of Churchill and the machinations of ‘others’ we might have well have avoided WWII, much the health and well being of the British people, it must be said.**
*Who had financed our so called ‘victory’ in WWI.
** Who had ‘earned’ it thanks their enormous sacrifices in WWI.
Sorry CHARLES, questioning the sense (or outcome) of “our” elites’ determination to stick their nose into Germany’s genocidal push Eastward for Liebensraum (and the raw materials they needed to feed their military Keynesianism) is a bridge too far for most Brits, who have been spoonfed the belief that if it weren’t for declaring war on Germany, we’d all be speaking German. For some reason.
Well I agree that is the national narrative, or folk memory, but there was an alternative strategy which is never discussed, sadly.
By 1939 it should have been blatantly obvious that two ideological opposed but rather similar systems were bound to engage in a major war.
This was none of our concern, except on an economic level where we had a God sent opportunity to massively revive British industry by supplying BOTH sides with arms and equipment, rather as the US was to do to a limited extent with ‘Cash and Carry’.
Unfortunately only too true!
WW2 is modern Britain’s “foundation myth”, and faith in it us imbued from birth.
Alongside it is the Churchill “cult”; the belief that without Churchill Britain would have been lost.
That Britain ended up bankrupt is usually ignored, not to mention that Poland, the casus belli, wasn’t saved.
Are we the only three that think this?
My view is that most people don’t think about it at all. They are too busy getting on with their lives and trying to “get on”.
The only time the subject arises is when there are “troubles abroad” when the politicians wrap themselves in the Union Jack (yes I know it’s the Union flag but that’s not the accepted phrase) and many people follow that lead…”stood alone against the N**is” (except for the Empire and US help…), “stand up to dictators” (but not to save Poland from one…which was the original point…) and all the usual nonsense. Reality, as in Britain cannot do anything of consequence and it’s not in British interests to do anything anyway, is just ignored.
Incidentally try persuading people that Chamberlain was actually right (except for the Polish Guarantee) and see how far you get.
I couldn’t agree more, most people have much more pressing issues to attend to!
However I have never ceased to champion Chamberlain, but to no avail, the stigma of “The Guilty Men” is set in stone it seems.
Interestingly I don’t think Churchill ever “trashed” Chamberlain but I haven’t really researched the point.
No I don’t think he did, in fact they were rather good ‘friends’ in some ways but WSC couldn’t or wouldn’t stop the post mortem vilification of Chamberlain.
I have forgotten when Chamberlain was diagnosed with terminal stomach cancer but I think it was around the autumn of 1939, do you happen to know any differently?
July 1940 seems to be the accepted view. No doubt symptoms showed before then.
No-one ever says that WW2 was in the best interests of USA – it brought them out of recession, and it fatally wounded the British Empire. Is it too much of a stretch to implicate a Churchill / Roosevelt plot? In the same way that liar Johnson preached “Stay close to the Americans!” and look where that has got us.
Just about, I should think. There may be a few guys like David Irvine (Irving?) who hold a similar view I suppose…
As you sure you are not confusing him with the late Maurice Cowling?
Did Irving have any views on Chamberlain?
What if they gave a war and NOBODY came? – John Lennon.. looks like the Chinese are too busy doing business to be deflected by warmongering.. for now, anyway. Keeping 1.4 bn people happy and wealthier is a full time job! Who has time for war?
I hope so. What ahistorical tosh. Britain went to war with Germany as an unchecked Germany was by Aug 1939 patently unreliable. Germany was an existential threat. Churchill – Britain- didn’t make peace with Hitler in the summer of 1040, in the same way we didn’t stand aside in 1914. It would have allowed Germany to win its decisive war on the continent before turning to Britain. By then, bereft of any partners and with the fear of blockade removed, and access to the oil of Baku, Britain would have been very much at risk. The example of the Armistice in 1940 shows just how punitive Nazi Germany could be and we know that Germany had horrific plans for Britain if successfully invaded.
“Lebensraum”. There is no “i”.
Or were you referring to bedrooms in brothels?
I doubt that ‘spell check’ would even countenance the word!
That would have been my response.
I would add there is no scope for taxes to go up. Up until 1939/40 government expenditure as a percentage of GDP was well below 30% We are now taxed to the brink. We are past the tipping point where the more you tax the the less you get, as Rachel from customer services is shortly due to find out with her NIC increases.
Also, what is left to tax. In the 1930 the UK was still an industrial powerhouse and one of world’s largest exporter. What makes up the economic base of the country now, finance, government spending and media. Hardly a base from which you can embark on a major rearmament programme.
Britain did recruit from Ireland and the Scottish Highland, but back then (1) Great Britain was an idea that people supported and could identify with (would Mr Carnegie be prepared to laydown his life and those of his children for country that hates them – thought not) (2) back in the day, there was overwhelming support in Scotland and Northern Ireland for the Union (3) even in Sothern Ireland there was a large part of the population who had not wanted independence ands still instinctively thought of themselves as part of Great Britain, while others were motivated by their support for the Soviet state or their opposition to Fascism.
Finally, it is nothing to do with fatalistic despair. In 1917 the Bolsheviks wanted to see Germany prevail against Russia because, in their view, only that would bring about the destruction of the ruling class.
It seems to me that our ruling class is far more of a threat to the natives of this country than Putin ever will be and that they are looking to turn Putin and Russia into some kind of existential threat to bolster their position. Over decades our ruling class have imported millions of foreigners into this country knowing that this was against the wishes of the overwhelming majority of the native population, and they seem adamantly opposed to changing course while being increasingly prepared to use the power of the state to suppress dissent and even imprison opponents. It seems that only a national humiliation will open the eyes of the British people to the hubris and corruption sufficiently to bring down the regime and purge our existing ruling class.
Not true! The Patriotic Elite still exist! It’s just that they are patriotic, not to Blighty but to their masters in the US instead, who in turn are patriotic to their master, Israel.. and those guys are patriotic to to Satan’s kingdom.. There’s no shortage of patriotism.. it’s just that it’s misdirected!
It is the globalist agenda that destroyed national coherence and purpose. For decades now sell out national leaders (left and right) have danced to the tune of supra-national entities that preached the doctrine of globalism and the end of the nation state.
..it’s the same for the Egyptians, the Persians, the Romans, and the Ottomans! I wonder what happened? ..and now the American Empire is crumbling with exactly the same signs as all the others.. and here comes the BRICS+ Empire.. interesting times, eh?
We would have been bankrupted by late 1940 if the US hadn’t saved us.
‘We’ must learn to live within our meagre means.
If the government were serious about conscription there are a couple of measures they could take, one very beneficial long term and the other extremely damaging. (No prizes for guessing which one Starmer, the unerring south compass, would choose)
Firstly, they could abolish future student loans, but introduce a generous university grant system for students who had completed their two years military service to study STEM subjects to degree level.
Or they could invite more muslim immigrants over and offer them, and those already in the country, UK citizenship in exchange for completing two years military training. …
As to the first suggestion, people are now realising that for most hire education is a rip off. I cannot see many people willing to sign up for 2 years in order escape student loans. Also we do not have that many people capable of studying STEM subjects in this country, hence humanities and the Orwellianly named social sciences. And it would still be very susceptible to challenge under the ECHR.
As to the second suggestion, creating your very own fifth column, or at least adding substantially to one that is already hear, pure genius. If you are so determined to destroy this country better that it is bought down by a country that shares to a large degree the same ethnicity and religion.
Conversely what on earth do you think is left in this country that is worth fighting for?
It sounds like you missed the part of my post that said the second choice would be damaging, but no matter
Damaging is cutting your finger not your throat
This bears repeating: “Our ruling class deliberately set out to destroy nationalism and the nation state, so what are we supposed to fight for, the rainbow flag, “British values”, a multicultural, multi-ethnic society?
…our ruling class have engaged in warfare against the white population, and particularly white males, so why should they enlist, and can anyone see our new Britons flocking to the flag to defend King and country?”
If there is ever a British comedy about this twenty years from now, the most famous bit will be Starmer yelling, “I demand to be taken seriously” over and over to a bored Trump, Putin, and Xi.
At a different level this is a philosophical battle between MAGA and Neocons. Team Trump is all about realistic national self-interest, whereas Neocons are paranoid, warmongering, globalist, authoritarian, utopians.
Neocons serve the interests of a country that shall remain nameless
..or perhaps banging on about.. “What did the Americans ever do for us?”
Another Unherd essay which hits many nails on heads. There’s a sense of relish in the writing of it by Aris Roussinos, as if his career to date has been a preparation for the formulation of the home truths embedded in each paragraph.
The foundations upon which a great many of us in Western Europe have grown up and lived our adult lives are now shifting, and this essay eviscerates those illusions we may all have once held; of peace, of relative prosperity, of having won in the “end of history” sense which is now no more than nonsense.
We need to learn how to fight again. Although our political class have done their damnedest to diminish our abilities, i’m not referring particularly to our actual combat capabilities, though we certainly need to strengthen those too. I’m referring to our sense of purpose – the very thing that JD Vance spoke of in his speech to the European commissars. Our sense of what we stand for in western democracies, of our long histories and how our ancestors had to fight, generation upon generation, to survive unto the next in the conditions of the old world; this is what needs to be revived in the new.
Mr R like a biblical prophet, wrapped in a mantle of fury, denouncing the sinners of the leading council of the nation.
Rory Stewart, ostensibly a conservative represents the thinking of the bulk of our administrative and political class that couldn’t conceive of anything but a Kamala Harris victory and a continuation of the existing US policy that Johnson represented when he persuaded Zelensky to reject a potential settlement that would have seen Ukraine give up 20% of its territory for peace with far less destruction of Ukraine and its population as has now occurred..
They never calculated for a Trump win and even if they did they harboured the illusion he would assist Ukraine to negotiate a tough settlement for Russia. They don’t understand how little support woke internal and external policies command among the population as a whole.
Hardly any Americans thought DJT and JDV would give away their leverage before the negotiations started. Most of the US population still backs Ukraine; that may erode now that DJT claims Zelensky is illegitimate.
Zelensky IS illegitimate!
Nonsense!
And your ‘nonsense’ is twaddle.
You well know that had Zelensky made that peace seal, Putin would have bided his time till he couldn’t help trying for a few more bites, if not the whole, cake.
Ukraine has been betrayed by those who persuaded the surrender of it’s nuclear weapons under an agreement to protect the country should you know who decided to tear it up.
Whatever the question is Reform is the answer.
Europe has this idea that Russia wants to invade it, but it’s in the process of finding out something much worse. Not only does Russia have no interest in European nations, neither does America. The worst thing that can ever happen to a narcisist is to be abandoned and ignored.
You are right. America isn’t locking down into complete isolation, but we are done with being the global(ist) cop.
The 21st century is shaping up to look more like the 19th than the 20th.
The EU is – mostly – a collection of US vassals. Germany, for all its apparent independence, is still occupied by thousands of US troops, who aren’t there to “defend” the country but US interests. And who can forget Scholz’ sh!t-eating grin after their main “ally” blew up the gas pipeline they needed to keep their heavy industry viable?
Meanwhile, it still hasn’t dawned on the British citizenry (or punditry, for that matter) that “their” elites’ obsession with getting involved (and, often, initiating) warfare on the continent has led to more than a century of disasters for the average Brit.
The UK’s electorate need to wise up and bring their “leaders” to heel.
Easier said than done I’m afraid. The myths of both WWI and WWII die hard. Just look at the mawkish performance every Armistice Day!
Incidentally is Germany actually ‘ allowed’ an Atomic Bomb?
In the old days of West Germany they certainly weren’t and quite right to!
Is there really evidence that Russia has no interest in Europe, assuming that you include Poland and the Baltic states in Europe?
And surely the US does have an interest in Europe, just not in its current leadership. The readership here might be convinced that our leaders are hopeless, but opinion polls still show a majority in the UK support the status quo. If I were Trump or Vance I’d stand back and wait for reality to strike home before trusting Europe.
In rhe words of George Galloway, I wouldn’t trust ANY of them! ..on anything! ..ever!
Russia doesn’t want Europe; just the Baltic states, Poland, Ukraine, and a few others!
“Even today, political discourse in Britain evades ethnicity for a focus on race in a way unusual outside America, where it stems from an almost uniquely stratified slave economy, overlaid on a settler colonial society deriving from genocide” (© Aris Roussinos)
Aris wrote this not a long time ago. I don’t know when he last looked in the mirror.
Yes! Purpose! That is, purpose beyond self-regard and -gratification and sentimental beneficence.
Hard to argue with any of that. As a Canadian I would say the same applies. We have been conned into spirit-sapping post-nationalist self-flagellation but insist on getting a seat at the adult’s table because of solid past efforts in two world wars and Korea.
“Hey low information white racist scum! Your country needs you!” That ought to rally the country. There’s no doubt that Trump is going to make mistakes – perhaps big mistakes – but his intentional embarrassment of the UK, EU and Canada by unilaterally meeting/dealing with Russia may well be the tonic that revives our listless spirits and reminds us of what it actually takes to make the world a safer place.
Russia invaded Ukraine precisely because Putin knew that the freedom and democracy-loving West had neglected, disparaged and disdained that which gave it freedom and democracy in the first place.
Russia invaded Ukraine after decades of warning the West not to do what it did: make moves to violate the Budapest Memorandum’s agreement to maintain Ukraine’s neutrality, and start incorporating Ukraine into NATO.
Zelenskiy continued down this road, and Trump is absolutely correct in stating that the little puppet provoked the Russian invasion.
Maybe Ukraine should have kept it’s nuclear weapons then since the Budapest memorandum was the reason they agreed to relinquish them to Russia for guarantee on its sovereignty and 1991 independence borders, since Russia broke that the wales term signatories ought to restore Ukraines nuclear capability and see how Russia likes that.
Aris holds in contempt the politicians who indulge in wishful thinking. Quite right too. The sky is dark with chickens coming home to roost. The wishful thinkers will find that their words will hang round their necks for years to come, like “Peace in our time” Chamberlain.
The only party leader who has had the wit to keep her mouth shut is Kemi Badenoch – apart from stating the obvious truth that Zelensky is not a dictator. We are an observer only in this unfolding disaster, so let us keep quiet and observe. And learn.
If Putin really is Trump’s idea of an ally, then the American government will find the next four years both interesting and eventful – and not in a good way.
Trump’s lot consider the decades-long encroachment of NATO into central and eastern Europe to have driven Russia into the arms of China, making an unbeatable combo.
Biden, Hillary, UK’s elites et al hoped to bring Russia down by provoking Putin into invading Ukraine and bleeding Russia dry. After months of being told that Russia is running out of missiles/tanks/washing machine electronics, it’s clear this “strategy” hasn’t worked, so the US foreign policy wonks now in power are trying to give Putin what he wants in order to pull him away from the Chinese: the US’ only real potential rival.
Of course, European leaders are too heavily invested (politically) in Ukraine somehow “winning” (did they ever actually believe this?) to pivot, so rather than admit their gambit failed, either we’ll see them replaced in short order, or they’ll be obliged to try to escalate their militaries’ involvement.
But they’re finding out the latter just isn’t practical… so expect humiliating u-turns, or resignations followed by much righteous indignation about how they were betrayed by evil Drumpf, the Pootinpuppet