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Female ageing is the ultimate horror story You can't kill the hag inside

'In the mercilessly full-screen close ups on her face, you can see that her skin’s plumpness is fading, its texture not so refined' (The Substance)

'In the mercilessly full-screen close ups on her face, you can see that her skin’s plumpness is fading, its texture not so refined' (The Substance)


September 30, 2024   6 mins

Contains spoilers.

When Stanley Kubrick needed a truly disturbing haunting for the bathroom of room 237 of the Overlook Hotel in The Shining (1980), he latched onto one of the most effective and elemental terrors imaginable: an old woman. More specifically, a nubile young woman who rises from a bathtub to seduce main character Jack Torrance, and then reveals her true form as a sore-ridden, saggy-breasted crone, cackling at her own deceit. 

It’s a scene that I suspect plays differently depending on the viewer’s sex. For a man, the horror comes from identifying with Jack. He, too, is aroused by the youth and beauty of the ghost’s first form; he, too, is appalled when he realises he has been tricked into lusting for old, degraded flesh. For a woman watching, the horror isn’t about what you want. It’s about what you are — or what you will become. You will age into monstrosity, and your only power will be the power to disgust. Every female body contains the terrible fact of its own future.

Coralie Fargeat’s new satirical body-horror The Substance contains a lot of visual nods to The Shining: corridors with sinister geometric carpet, blood pouring down walls, a bathroom decorated in an upsettingly lurid shade of red. But the most important nod of all is this: it’s a movie about the horror of female ageing, in which the ultimate nightmare is a woman’s body made grotesque by time. This time, though, it’s not a male filmmaker seeing this horror from the outside. It’s a female filmmaker seeing it from the inside. 

The film’s concept is a bit complicated and pretty clever. Elisabeth Sparkle (played by Demi Moore) is an Oscar-winning actress turned fabulously successful aerobics instructor (shades of Jane Fonda), just hitting her 50th birthday — which is the point at which “it stops”, as her repellent producer (Dennis Quaid) tells her. “People always ask for something new.” She loses her show. She loses her celebrity. She loses her purpose. 

Enter the substance — a mysterious black-market medicine that promises to create the best version of you. When Elisabeth injects it, she gives birth to a whole second self through a gory vaginal split in her back. The new her (played by Margaret Qualley) is young, luscious and beautiful, and takes the name Sue. The only snag is that, while Elisabeth and Sue have separate bodies, their existence is shared: one of them can live for seven days while the other lies insensate. Disturb that balance, and you pay a price.

Of course, the characters (character?) can’t simply follow the rules. As Sue steps into Elisabeth’s old life and job, it becomes unbearable to sacrifice herself so the older body can live. “Just one more day,” she whispers to Elisabeth’s prone body, as she draws another dose of serum from the spine. The cost is borne by Elisabeth, who becomes more decrepit with every liberty Sue takes. Unable to coexist, they end up in a battle to survive that neither ultimately will win. Sue will end up savagely kicking a wizened, hunchbacked Elisabeth to death. 

There are more gruesome parts of the film, but for me, this moment of obliterating overkill directed at the despised figure of female age was the most horrible. Sue, of course, is ensuring her own hideous death by murdering Elisabeth. But in that moment, she cares less about her own life than she does about destroying the saggy, sunken portent of her own future. Elisabeth’s body represents everything she fears becoming, and everything that she will be, because Sue is Elisabeth and Elisabeth is Sue. 

The writer Victoria Smith dissects this particular form of ageist misogyny in her book Hags. “From the moment we are born female,” she writes, “we are conditioned to feel ashamed, not just of our appearance, our biology and our desires, but also of other women and our connection to them.” One way to manage this entrenched internalised misogyny, argues Smith, is through “hag hate”, which “provides a means to pacify that fear and shame by directing it onto the older woman.” The enthusiastic way in which some younger women embraced terms of abuse for middle-aged women like “Karen” and “terf”? That’s hag hate. The young woman understands, correctly, that to age as a woman is to become hated; her futile defence is to hate harder than anyone else.

“The young woman understands, correctly, that to age as a woman is to become hated.”

But the self-destruction begins with Elisabeth’s choice to take the substance rather than accept her own decline into maturity. In an interview about the film, Demi Moore has said, astutely, that “it’s not about what’s being done to us [us here being women] — it’s what we do to ourselves. It’s the violence we have against ourselves.” And having worked to Hollywood’s punishing physical standards since she was a teenager, Moore knows a few things about this violence.

Inevitably, as a young woman Moore was told that she wasn’t thin enough (“before I ever even had children”, said Moore, in a phrase which ever so slightly and heartbreakingly suggests she might have accepted some justice in it after having children). She doesn’t, however, see those comments in themselves as the most harmful thing inflicted on her: “those were humiliating experiences, but the true violence was what I was doing to myself, the way in which I tortured myself, did extreme crazy exercise, weighed and measured my food because I was putting all of my value of who I was into how my body was, how it looked, and giving other people’s opinion more power than myself.”

Yet all the while Moore felt inescapably inadequate, her body was the peak of commodifiable perfection as far as the film industry was concerned. In Indecent Proposal (1993) she played a woman so gorgeous that a man would offer a million dollars to sleep with her. For going topless in Striptease (1996) — and for appearing to be fully nude on the poster, which may have been more important for the film’s commercial prospects — she was paid an unprecedented $12.5 million. 

It would have been sensational for any woman to appear naked and pregnant on the cover of Vanity Fair. But it was Moore who did it, in a 1991 shoot by Annie Leibovitz that drew both feminist praise and moral majority ire. It was talked about by everyone for most of that summer. Moore might never have received much critical recognition for her performances, but her body has always been significant in itself. It stands for the ideal.

Which is why it is shocking to see her naked in the early scenes of The Substance. Her breasts are a little less perky than the last time you probably saw them, her butt a little less perfectly round. In the mercilessly full-screen close ups on her face, you can see that her skin’s plumpness is fading, its texture not so refined. She looks undeniably like an older woman. She does not, however, look her age — which is 61. She doesn’t even look her character’s age of 50. She could pass easily for 40-something. 

And that is partly the point. “Part of what was interesting is that Elisabeth is being rejected, and it’s not that I look that bad,” Moore has said. But it also points to a different kind of horror taking place off-screen. Moore has denied ever having plastic surgery, despite extensive speculation that she had undergone procedures including breast implants, fat transfer and eyelid reduction. Regardless, her body speaks of relentless discipline in diet and exercise: slim, toned and exquisitely proportioned, even if some parts of her are very slightly drooping. 

Keeping the hag inside you at bay requires constant vigilance. While Moore looks 40-ish, stars who are actually in their 40s have begun to look nearer to 20. This month, Dazed declared the advent of the “Undetectable Era” of beauty — the beauty itself is detectable, but the means used to achieve it are not. “We strive for dramatic results,” explained one surgeon. “The undetectable part is that it’s done so well, so beautifully, that to the natural observer it just looks like a person who’s maintained some youth.”

This, of course, is the dream that drives Elisabeth to the substance: to be younger, more beautiful, more perfect. That possibility — of youth stretched into decades — is not dystopian anymore, or at least not dystopian if you have access to the money and expertise that Hollywood success can offer. You can look as poreless and full-lipped at 30 as you were when you were a pre-teen. A beauty that looks born, not made, is there for the purchasing.

No procedure, though, can bargain away time forever. The portrait in the attic (or in the case of The Substance, the unconscious 50-year-old body in the closet) is still there, awaiting revelation. The hag is in her bathtub, waiting to be found. The horror of female ageing is that you can’t kill the crone inside yourself. She is you, and the alternative to reconciliation with her is mutually assured destruction. The only way to live, in the end, is to accept your mortality.


Sarah Ditum is a columnist, critic and feature writer.

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Brett H
Brett H
1 month ago

The only way to live, in the end, is to accept your mortality.
Gosh, what a radical idea. Who would have thought? It’s not as if aging is a new, contemporary experience.

Graham Stull
Graham Stull
1 month ago
Reply to  Brett H

To paraphrase Oscar Wilde: Growing old is horrid, until one considers the only alternative.

Fafa Fafa
Fafa Fafa
1 month ago

I suggest that the esteemed readers of this outfit click on this link and read a sober, mature treatment of the topic: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/invisible-women-50s-male-gaze_n_63a38c4fe4b033ea8cc577aa

Not as dramatic and titillating as the treatment of the topic in here but much more useful and enlightening.

Lancashire Lad
Lancashire Lad
1 month ago

We’re all familiar with the horrors of witchtrials. Of course, WE wouldn’t participate in them, would we? The author, and this film, suggests that perhaps… actually, not only that we.might but that – in a less-clearly defined way – we do. Furthermore, that it’s women who’re just as active participants by self-demonising the aging process.

I’m not sure this is generally true (i’m not female, obviously) but that it contains an element of truth that we all might recognise seems to be true.

Very many older women have a degree of wisdom that society would be much poorer without. As i age, that can be appreciated, so it pains me to witness the psychological self-harm that the prospect of fading youthfulness seems to induce, according to this narrative. Isn’t it time that we all stopped beating ourselves up in this, and other ways?

It’ll be interesting to see the wider reaction to this film. Demi Moore is a great actress… full stop. She was great when young, she’s perhaps even greater now. That should be all we need to take on board, but she deserves great credit for portraying this subject, and the author of this piece credit too for the way she’s set out her analysis.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 month ago
Reply to  Lancashire Lad

Well said.

William Shaw
William Shaw
1 month ago
Reply to  Lancashire Lad

“i’m not female, obviously“
We all know that to be a lie.
But, whatever.

Claire Grey
Claire Grey
1 month ago

I just don’t recognise the world as described by Sarah Ditum here. Nor do I recognise Victoria Smith’s idea that women are conditioned to feel ashamed.
Out of all the many women I have known during my life I have only ever met one acquiantance that was anxious about her aging body, she was worried that she would lose her husband, I felt very sorry for her.
All the others are too busy working, looking after children and grandchildren, taking up new hobbies (especially golf for some reason, wacking a ball really hard with a five iron must have something in it for the mature female psyche), swimming and yoga, travelling, spending time with friends etc etc.

Feminists will see the world through their distorting lens, I feel sorry for them too. Life for most of us really is’nt like that.

Graham Stull
Graham Stull
1 month ago
Reply to  Claire Grey

Hear, hear.
My wife is ageing graciously. I love every inch of her, and I suspect many husbands share this view of their ageing wives.
But honestly, she has too much to do living her life, to worry about what I, other men or society in general thinks about her body. That’s another of the things I love about her.

Alex Lekas
Alex Lekas
1 month ago
Reply to  Graham Stull

Ditto. My wife is 61 and attractive as ever.

John Tyler
John Tyler
1 month ago
Reply to  Graham Stull

72 and ditto!

Bret Larson
Bret Larson
1 month ago
Reply to  Graham Stull

Pretty much the same for me and lynn. However she does have one annoying behaviour. She likes throwing out old stuff and she sneaks some of my stuff out as well.

UnHerd Reader
UnHerd Reader
1 month ago
Reply to  Bret Larson

Lol. MY FIL was famous for throwing away his wife’s stuff without her knowing. He used to say he could teach seminars on it.

annabel lawson
annabel lawson
1 month ago
Reply to  Graham Stull

I can think of half a dozen genuinely ugly women in my circle who are fascinating to men women and children wherever they go. There’s a story by Italo Calvino about this.

UnHerd Reader
UnHerd Reader
1 month ago
Reply to  annabel lawson

Do you remember the name?

Terry M
Terry M
1 month ago
Reply to  Claire Grey

Sadly, the booming plastic surgery industry proves that very, very many women (and men) are body-obsessed and extremely reluctant to go gentle into that good night.

David Morley
David Morley
1 month ago
Reply to  Terry M

Some are, but it’s good old fashioned vanity and in extreme cases narcissism. It’s not because they’ve been conditioned or brain washed (by the patriarchy presumably).

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 month ago
Reply to  David Morley

No it’s not.

Claire Grey
Claire Grey
1 month ago
Reply to  Terry M

“very, very many . . .” ?

Let’s look at the figures:
In 2023, according to the British Association of Aesthetic Plastic Surgeons, 25,972 procedues took place, 93% on women, 7% on men.

There are approximately 35 million females in the UK. Let’s say 10 million of those are children. That leaves approximately 25 million adult females.

Correct me if I am wrong, but that means less than a quarter of a percent of all adult females had plastic surgery in 2023, for whatever reason. That is a tiny percentage of British women having plastic surgery.

Ex Nihilo
Ex Nihilo
1 month ago
Reply to  Claire Grey

Wow. According to the American Society of Plastic Surgeons 1,575,244 surgeries comprising only the 25 most common cosmetic procedures were performed by its members in 2023 in the U.S. Add to those the thousands more procedures that are done by non-members. Americans must be much more vain or far less naturally attractive than you Brits!

https://www.plasticsurgery.org/documents/news/statistics/2023/cosmetic-procedure-trends-2023.pdf

Mark Splane
Mark Splane
1 month ago
Reply to  Ex Nihilo

Surely the latter. 🙂

David Morley
David Morley
1 month ago
Reply to  Claire Grey

Let’s hope it stays that way – though Botox is more common, and scarily uncontrolled.

Stephen Wright
Stephen Wright
1 month ago
Reply to  Claire Grey

Thanks for the comment, I am glad to read it. The campaigning from feminists about how ‘society makes them feel’ seems to me to be largely a reflection of their own personal issues, rarely held in the wider female population. Hag hate in this instance is a destructive projection of an insecurity around aging – and why should that issue be foisted onto all women? There are so many wonderful mothers and grandmothers out there. Maiden, Mother, Matriarch doesn’t sound too bad to me.
I suspect the women blessed with good looks and perhaps less else, cannot stand to lose that unearned power and privilege, and we all have to hear their screaming about how unfair it is. Welcome to the real world.

David Morley
David Morley
1 month ago
Reply to  Stephen Wright

I suspect the women blessed with good looks and perhaps less else, cannot stand to lose that unearned power and privilege, and we all have to hear their screaming about how unfair it is. 

And I might add, the ones who have spent their lives focussing on their appearance (and that of others) and failing to develop any other strings to their bow – like kindness, empathy, genuine interests, an ability to converse about non trivial topics. In other words, they are shallow.

Stephen Wright
Stephen Wright
1 month ago
Reply to  David Morley

The power that attractive young women have is scary. I was hanging out with one a while back and it was pretty eye opening. Just walking into normal shops it was a battle to get anyone to listen to me as they fell over her. What I’m saying is if you were blessed with this sort of power, wouldn’t we all end up riding that wave of invites rather than sitting alone in a library reading Tolstoy in order to not ‘be shallow’? I’m not so sure.
So I’m not sure I blame them for being preoccupied about losing this power, but I’m also not shedding a tear when they complain about it. They are essentially coming back to earth to experience life as a normal person.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 month ago
Reply to  Stephen Wright

It is possible to be attractive, sexy, empathic, intelligent, have a biting wit, and a well-developed intellect and also be female. Much harder to be taken seriously in a male-dominated profession with those qualities, however.

David Morley
David Morley
1 month ago
Reply to  Clare Knight

I think it was – but less so now. And unless by “biting wit” you mean obnoxious, what you have described is many men’s ideal woman.

David Morley
David Morley
1 month ago
Reply to  Stephen Wright

Yes – I think it’s a bigger shock losing your looks if you were once beautiful.

But for the girl who has read Tolstoy (or developed her mind and heart in any other way) there is much to look forward to. For the woman who has banked on looks alone it’s going to be tough.

Jim C
Jim C
1 month ago
Reply to  Stephen Wright

This. Women don’t become “hated” as they become older, they’re just no longer as desired.

But I suppose narcissists can’t tell the difference.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 month ago
Reply to  David Morley

You’re really taking advantage of the topic to slide in your usual misogyny, aren’t you David.

David Morley
David Morley
1 month ago
Reply to  Clare Knight

I think to qualify as misogyny it would have to be aimed at women in general, or women as such. That some women are like this can be seen by everybody, and is obvious from the rise in cosmetic surgery, Botox and the rest.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 month ago
Reply to  David Morley

One hopes there isn’t a Mrs Morley.

steve eaton
steve eaton
1 month ago
Reply to  Clare Knight

Is this an example of YOUR “biting wit”?

UnHerd Reader
UnHerd Reader
1 month ago
Reply to  Stephen Wright

THIS is it. I was never that pretty, just an average Irish American girl, so I learned to develop other gifts like my mind and my humor and my athleticism and more than anything, my betterment as a wife and mother. At nearly 60, my gfs who were chasing the dragon lookswise are vapid and boring and always posting nonsense about “why I should still be considered fuckable at 57”. The horrid drivel of movies coming out one after another with cougar romances keep this ridiculous lie alive.

J Hop
J Hop
1 month ago
Reply to  Claire Grey

This is very much a Hollywood problem being projected onto women at large. Agreed that this neurosis is thankfully not shared by most middle aged women, including myself (age 51).

David Morley
David Morley
1 month ago
Reply to  Claire Grey

Likewise. So it’s not just because I’m a man.

I suspect female narcissists might see things in the way she describes.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 month ago
Reply to  David Morley

Stick the knive in even further, David. You poor thing were you waiting for a female to validate your observations? Don’t trust your feelings?

Bret Larson
Bret Larson
1 month ago
Reply to  Claire Grey

Agreed. Men age and die also, and sooner too. So I don’t see an old face and think regretful thoughts. I see an old face and think what a good job they have done living so long.

Hard to understand any other opinion for me.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 month ago
Reply to  Bret Larson

They may not have done a good job and they may be just waiting to die.

Bret Larson
Bret Larson
1 month ago
Reply to  Clare Knight

Patience is a virtue.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 month ago
Reply to  Claire Grey

Your pity smacks of arrogance and superiority. Had you made your point without “feeling sorry” for women who aren’t able to rise above society’s double standard, I might have given it some serious thought.

Claire Grey
Claire Grey
1 month ago
Reply to  Clare Knight

If I was being passive/aggressive – and “feeling sorry” for an opponent is used in that way sometimes regrettably – you would be correct, but I don’t think “arrogance and superiority” are what lie behind my words. Obviously I do think I am right, but that is not necessarily from a position of arrogance, and it may be objectively superior by virtue of actually being right.

I think in this instance, my “pity” or “feeling sorry” for ‘feminists’ is a feeling of sadness at a person, or persons, making a mistake that has an adverse effect on their life, and on the lives of people around them, it is what I see around me and it does make me sad.

Don Lightband
Don Lightband
1 month ago
Reply to  Claire Grey

The third paragraph is somewhat less than convincing

Christopher Barclay
Christopher Barclay
1 month ago
Reply to  Claire Grey

Sarah Ditum does not acknowledge that Demi Moore has made and continues to make her living from her physical beauty and now from appearing much younger than she is. It is little wonder that she fears losing her money-making looks. Apparently Moore also does not talk about her children other than the threat they posed to her physical attractiveness. Perhaps she should have spent more time with them and less on a film set while leaving them with a nanny. One of the strongest factors keeping men faithful to their ageing wives is the desire to maintain the respect of their children.

William Shaw
William Shaw
1 month ago
Reply to  Claire Grey

Quite right.
In a recent article Debbie Harry, who just turned 80, wondered how she got to be so old.
She then answered her own question… Just lucky I guess.

Caradog Wiliams
Caradog Wiliams
1 month ago

When you are young it doesn’t even cross your mind for a second that you might get old. So, as you age you have to keep telling yourself over and over that you are still young – you just can’t be old, can you? But the mirror shows a different picture. The mirror must be wrong and it’s all a matter of putting filler in a crack or two. And then a habit is developed for life – how to prove that the image in the mirror is wrong.
The main thing for staying young, more than anything else, is to be fit for life. This doesn’t mean going to the gym every day. It means being fit and active, not parking a few feet from the shop because it’s raining. Mental activity is important as well. People get into habits to keep busy and busy-ness is not the same as fitness. I look around me and see how unfit my contemporaries are; they may have busy social lives but this means getting in a car and meeting somebody in Starbucks. Obviously I will die in a few years but it will be better to be fit when the time comes.

J Cizek
J Cizek
1 month ago

Why would any intelligent, mature, person make the movie described, why would they spend time watching it? So much of real life out there – important things.
Re older women, many of them are very interesting, and attractive. I feel sorry for anyone that doesn’t appreciate them. The transient power of youthful female beauty is the engine of life, but just a phase – there is so much more.

Arkadian Arkadian
Arkadian Arkadian
1 month ago

When was this film out? I have just checked my Cineworld and it is only available at 16:40 every day, so it must have been out for some time.
On IMDb it has 7.8, which is promising, but who goes to the pictures at 16:40??

Mike SampleName
Mike SampleName
1 month ago

It was released 20/09. No superheroes in tights quoting vapid one-liners though, so not a big release.

Aphrodite Rises
Aphrodite Rises
1 month ago

The loss of looks and the associated power over men is generally felt to be a tragedy by those women who have traded on and profited from their looks. The late great dame Maggie Smith demonstrated the power of talent over looks and aged both naturally and beautifully.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 month ago

Agreed. To name but one and she made a fortune out of not having plastic surgery

Rod Robertson
Rod Robertson
1 month ago

“to age as a woman is to become hated” Yeah. Like Maggie Smith was hated.

Catherine Conroy
Catherine Conroy
1 month ago
Reply to  Rod Robertson

Or Judi Dench

David B
David B
1 month ago

Or the Queen

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 month ago
Reply to  David B

All British. There’s something about the culture that is more authentic.

Mark Splane
Mark Splane
1 month ago
Reply to  David B

Or the Queen Mother. Both very beautiful women in their youth.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 month ago
Reply to  Rod Robertson

Maggie Smith was the exception that proves the rule.

Rod Robertson
Rod Robertson
1 month ago
Reply to  Clare Knight

All the women mentioned above are The Every Mother. My mother and yours. They are beautiful as capital M Mother. Not as capital S Sydney Sweeney. We can do the same for Father, that “paltry thing, a tattered coat upon a stick”. People love old women who age into their archetypal role. It’s the narcissists who kick and scream like 2 year olds that we rightly mock. Women, grow up.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 month ago
Reply to  Rod Robertson

Might be yours, not mine, and I hardly think they’d be considered the archetypal mother.

UnHerd Reader
UnHerd Reader
1 month ago

I think that women judge themselves more harshly than men judge them. What women call saggy, men often think of as larger and fuller, those crows feet show wisdom and humour, the thinner lips speak interesting and sparkling conversation, rather than dull and self absorbed chat that sometimes comes from younger, fuller lips.
As a man in his fifties, myself and my peers wouldn’t want a woman much more than ten years either way, and we absolutely feel sexual attraction for women in that group.
You can appreciate the looks of younger women, but it’s rather like appreciating a Ferrari, they look nice but you don’t actually want one.
Older women, strut confidently through life, don’t mar your looks with unnecessary surgery, you’re still desirable to us!

David Morley
David Morley
1 month ago
Reply to  UnHerd Reader

those crows feet show wisdom and humour, the thinner lips speak interesting and sparkling conversation,

Sometimes they do. I suspect the women who are hit hardest by ageing are the ones who have spent all their time obsessing about appearance and have failed to develop the things that are supposed to come with maturity. They have invested everything in declining assets.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 month ago
Reply to  David Morley

Boy, you’re really having a go! When will you have vented your spleen?

David Morley
David Morley
1 month ago
Reply to  Clare Knight

It’s simply true. And I dare say there are male equivalents. Some people seem to grow and mature and become interesting as people. Some simply fail to do so. It’s not hard to spot. Their behaviour and tastes are like those of teenagers, either of their own era or of the current one. It’s embarrassing.

Kent Ausburn
Kent Ausburn
1 month ago
Reply to  David Morley

Are you suggesting then, that as a 71 year old, I should be satisfied to just set around smoking a pipe and listening to classical music instead of driving my convertible roadster fast while listening to loud rock and roll music?

Daniel P
Daniel P
1 month ago
Reply to  UnHerd Reader

You are SO right about how we men in our 50’s, or at least the vast majority of us, look at younger women.
It is rather like looking at a piece of art. It may be attractive to look at but would you really want to hang it in your bedroom or would you be willing to pay the price for it?
No, better to just appreciate it where it is and move on.
The Ferrari is a great example though. It is gorgeous to look at but miserable to ride in over anything more than a local jaunt. You gotta worry about where you park it. The insurance is insane and the property taxes outrageous. They are finicky and expensive to maintain. When it is all said and done, just not worth it.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 month ago
Reply to  UnHerd Reader

That’s a load of rubbish. Women judge themselves more harshly than men judge themselves.

Archibald Tennyson
Archibald Tennyson
1 month ago

“Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.” Matthew 24:35

David Morley
David Morley
1 month ago

I prefer the “all flesh is grass …” one.

Dennis Roberts
Dennis Roberts
1 month ago

I’m glad I read the first part of that. Until I did, I thought I was going to age and eventually die, but now I realise that ageing only happens to females I don’t need to worry about getting old anymore.

Johannes van Vliet
Johannes van Vliet
1 month ago

Seems an echo of “The Picture of Dorian Gray” by Oscar Wilde. Though there it considers a man.

Mark Splane
Mark Splane
1 month ago

Damn you! You beat me to it.

Catherine Conroy
Catherine Conroy
1 month ago

As a woman 2 years older than Demi Moore, I find the self-hating crone concept quite alien to me. I value my health and I’m happy that I’ve lived that long. I was considered quite attractive when young but I don’t miss the days of being chatted up all the time.
That said, I’m impressed at Demi Moore’s brave act even though I think Coralie Fargeat is the one with a real problem with ageing. All the same, the script does seem very clever and imaginative (certainly clever than Death Becomes Her).

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 month ago

It’s certainly a relief not to be hormone-driven any more!

M To the Tea
M To the Tea
1 month ago

Aging is a form of intelligence! Only certain “skin type” makes it superficial!

Alex Lekas
Alex Lekas
1 month ago

This reads like a therapist’s notes of how half the population engages in ritual self-loathing over a fact of life that spares no one. There is no ‘horror’ to female aging any more than that applies to men. Aging is a fact of life. One can do things to fight or slow the process, but it eventually wins.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 month ago
Reply to  Alex Lekas

You missed the point.

Emmanuel MARTIN
Emmanuel MARTIN
1 month ago

I vehemently object to the idea that “to age as a woman is to become hated” . This is blatantly false.
What might be true, however, is that aging women don’t enjoy the “free” status and validation society granted them as they were younger. They join the (quite) large club of adult people who have to pay for their own bus ticket (and their own meal at the restaurant).
Only narcissist entitlement prevents some women from seeing the difference.

Sue Sims
Sue Sims
1 month ago

Well, yes and no. There are compensations. In the UK, pensioners get a free bus (though the current government may withdraw this), so they don’t pay for their own bus ticket. And at 72 with arthritic knees and a walking stick, I do enjoy having men offer me their seat on buses.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 month ago
Reply to  Sue Sims

It should be younger people, both male and female, who offer you their seat.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 month ago

A little bit of misogyny creeping in there, Emmanuel.

UnHerd Reader
UnHerd Reader
1 month ago
Reply to  Clare Knight

After reading all your comments on this topic, I’ve come to this conclusion: Anything said by anyone that doesn’t praise ALL women is misogynist, sexist, racist, incorrect, and not up to your standard. You deny inescapable truths under the false guise that even one example disproves what’s true for all but one…when you don’t know for sure “one” exists. “Karen” doesn’t come close, although it includes several resident characteristics.

David Morley
David Morley
1 month ago

terms of abuse for middle-aged women like “Karen” and “terf”? That’s hag hate.

The term Karen originated as a term of abuse for obnoxious entitled middle aged, middle class women who were abusive to those they considered their social inferiors. People serving them usually – though it took on a racist connotation later.

It’s not hag hate – it’s the revenge of the underdog against privileged women with no manners. We’ve all met them, or seen them in action.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 month ago
Reply to  David Morley

Again! You don’t seem to have any idea how much you hate women, David.

David Morley
David Morley
1 month ago
Reply to  Clare Knight

You’re being remarkably defensive. Do you have a reputation for being a bit of a Karen yourself?

David Morley
David Morley
1 month ago
Reply to  Clare Knight

WHAT DOES KAREN MEAN?Karen is a  div > p > a”>pejorative slang term for an obnoxious, angry, entitled, and often racist middle-aged white woman who uses her privilege to get her way or police other people’s behaviors.
As featured in memes, Karen is generally stereotyped as having a blonde bob haircut, asking to speak to retail and restaurant managers to voice complaints or make demands, and being an  div > p:nth-of-type(2) > a”>anti-vaxx  div > p:nth-of-type(2) > a:nth-of-type(2)”>Generation X  div > p:nth-of-type(2) > a:nth-of-type(3)”>soccer mom.
In 2020, Karen spread as a label used to call out white women who were captured in viral videos engaging in what are widely seen as  div > p:nth-of-type(3) > a”>racist acts.

https://www.dictionary.com/e/slang/karen/

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 month ago
Reply to  David Morley

You don’t know what color I am!

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 month ago
Reply to  David Morley

What is the male equivalent of a “Karen”. Is there one or is it the old double standard? Like what is the male equivalent of a w***e?
You don’t know what color I am!

David Morley
David Morley
1 month ago

“From the moment we are born female,” she writes, “we are conditioned to feel ashamed, not just of our appearance, our biology and our desires, but also of other women and our connection to them.” 

Conditioned when, and by whom? Girls, like all children, are now raised and educated predominantly by women. Are they doing it? Why? It’s certainly not men telling them to do it.

Sounds like neurotic women trying to find someone to blame for their neurosis.

Unwoke S
Unwoke S
1 month ago

I hope I can be forgiven for my shameless objectifying male gaze, but, honestly (REALLY honestly), I continue to look at my 65-year old wife as I have done almost every day during the four decades we have been married, and still think she is the most beautiful object in my life.

John Tyler
John Tyler
1 month ago

We’ e just ben re-watching Coupling. I love Sally-s take on female ageing: deep, deep philosophy!

c hutchinson
c hutchinson
1 month ago

I know a number of couples where one or both were never considered attractive yet have managed to stay together for 40 – 60 years. There is something more important than looks.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 month ago
Reply to  c hutchinson

Money!

Alexander van de Staan
Alexander van de Staan
1 month ago

/

Mike MacCormack
Mike MacCormack
1 month ago

50% of humanity, somehow bred to hate their own ageing bodies? Nobody would prefer to have an old and failing body, and before the last few hundred years not many people would have lived to a great age anyway, but this argument is so overstated it becomes ridiculous. Narcissistic claptrap hardly begins to describe it, and UnHerd has disappointed me yet again.

UnHerd Reader
UnHerd Reader
1 month ago

Sarah. Have you ever heard of the word “spoiler.”?

Ex Nihilo
Ex Nihilo
1 month ago

All flesh is like grass, and all its loveliness is like the flower of the field. The grass withers,the flower fades, but the word of our God stands forever.

–Isaiah 40:8

James P
James P
1 month ago

My wife, the mother of our two children, is now 66, almost 67. She is as beautiful and attractive to me now as she was when I first fell in love with her in 1979. Just sayin’ …

Don Lightband
Don Lightband
1 month ago

I have but one question at this time: how can a “BUTT” be perfectly round?

Blessed rondeur remains with the English tongue

Jerry Carroll
Jerry Carroll
1 month ago

Agelessness and the search for perfection are equal curses. Only fools pursue them.

Studio Largo
Studio Largo
1 month ago

Thank you for telling ‘ageing’ correctly, haven’t seen that in a long time.

Mark Splane
Mark Splane
1 month ago

People, can we please try to remember that there is an ‘e’ in ‘ageing’?

John Riordan
John Riordan
1 month ago

Every time I read one of these feminist analyses I feel exhausted just contemplating any of it, and stumped both as to why women put themselves through so much of this neurotic nonsense and why men seem, in some nebulous manner, to be ultimately to blame for it.

William Shaw
William Shaw
1 month ago

The terms “Karen” and “terf” are not hag hate.
They have nothing to do with age.
Incidentally, the only times I’ve heard the terms “Karen” and “terf” used they were used by women. I’ve never heard men use those terms.

steve eaton
steve eaton
1 month ago

Just maybe, This is evidence of Ageism by women towards men. As a 68 year old man I know that what I find attractive in women has steadily morphed as I’ve grown older. What I find most attractive now are women in their 40’s and 50’s’.
Maybe the fear written about here isn’t really a fear of growing old and ugly and becoming unattractive as much as it is about becoming unattractive to the handsome young men in their 20’s and 30’s?
Maybe it isn’t so much a rejection of their own aging but a rejection of aging men? I find little to sympathize with here.

steve eaton
steve eaton
1 month ago

I’ll just leave this here:

“Life is a process of becoming, a combination of states we have to go through. Where people fail is that they wish to elect a state and remain in it. This is a kind of death.”
 – Anais Nin

UnHerd Reader
UnHerd Reader
1 month ago

Consciously planned exercise and dieting are not neurotic behaviors. Think about this: most speakers of Modern English do not have to say what type of stress they are talking about because they are exceptionally good at avoiding physical stress

UnHerd Reader
UnHerd Reader
1 month ago

Such a limited view of womanhood and all its ages